Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, May 2
2003 Volume 02 : Number 144
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 02:04:03 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: VCU, torque split
Jeff, I think you did not apply the law of conservation of angular momentum
correctly. The law says that the total momentum of an isolated system does
not change. Another way of stating this is that the initial momentum of an
isolated system is equal to its final momentum. Even if the wheel speeds
front and rear are the same, the sum of their momentums equal to the engine
momentum. The law does not imply that the momentums on the wheels must be
the equal. They could easily be 45/55%.
If there is no slip then the viscous coupling is completely inactive and
does not change the torque split. The torque split is determined by gear
ratio when there is no slippage and the viscous coupling is inactive. When
slippage occurs the coupling gets activated and the center differential
gear ratio becomes less relevant.
The other engineering student was right. :-)
Philip
> > Philip's analysis of the 45/55 split was again
> >
repeated to me last week by another owner, an
> > engineering student.
Both analyses require that
> > there is some relative movement between
some
> > combination of the sun, planetary, and ring gears.
>
> However, when there is a difference in rotation
> > speed of the
two output shafts, the VCU "locks"
> > the two output shafts together.
The result is that
> > relative movement between any of the gears
inside
> > the CD ceases.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:48:26 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
What are the pros and cons of the strut bars listed on the 3SX site at
http://www.3sxperformance.com/suspension-horizontal.asp?
Are the TEC bars worth the extra money? Why would the adjustable Cusco be
cheaper than the solid Cusco? What about the 3SX bars? And with a
rear bar, will I still be able to use my cargo cover?
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0
bar @ 64% BADC) A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve Magnecor
spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90,
xfer & diff= SPHvy) Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec,
1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph 1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:27:26 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
> What are
the pros and cons of the strut bars listed on the 3SX site at
>
http://www.3sxperformance.com/suspension-horizontal.asp?
Are the TEC
> bars worth the extra money? Why would the adjustable
Cusco be
> cheaper than the solid Cusco? What about the 3SX
bars? And with a
> rear bar, will I still be able to use my cargo
cover?
- ------------------------------------->
The TEC front tower bar is a rock, and it includes an adjustable battery
hold-down, too. Remember that with any front tower bar, you will need a
smaller battery, and I don't remember if your Optima is small enough... I
felt better handling with just the front TEC bar alone, before I put in the GC
coilovers on the Stealth. But I think it could still benefit from a rear
sway bar and tower bar, since the coilovers aren't that stiff.
I installed another TEC on the VR-4, but the suspension is so tight and
neutral with the JIC's, I'm not planning on putting on either the rear Saner
sway bar OR rear strut tower bar (that I already bought). Two different
performance experts told me the same thing - that they didn't think the car
needed either of them with that JIC Magic (believe it!) suspension. Too
bad they wont fit on the Stealth. ;-) The same guys told me I
*needed* both rear tower & rear sway on the Stealth - especially the sway
bar.
I was concerned about being able to use the cargo area too, and they showed
me that it's only 4 bolts to install/remove a rear tower bar. I'm going to
install mine only at the track (on the Stealth) and remove it afterwards, even
though that's a PITA. But it's more important that I have that cargo space
and cover when I'm not racing. I researched it all when I was shopping,
and I chose the solid rear tower bar over the adjustable one (it's more rigid -
that's probably why there's a price difference). I bought them all
from 3SXPerformance. If you're considering getting them at different
times, the front tower and rear sway are most important, and after that the rear
tower bar, IMO. Others have liked the front sway bar, but I also remember
that a TT racer recently took his *off* because he didn't like the
handling. I can't remember who, but I think Rick Pierce and I were talking
about it - perhaps he'll refresh my memory.
Now that I have the coilovers on, I started looking at the prices...
If I added up the price for the coilovers, and 2-strut and 2-tower bars, it's
close to the price of a Tein suspension, (which is a bit softer than the
JIC's). If I had to do it again on the Stealth, that's what I'd do.
I'd forget about the bars and just put in a solid suspension. Just a Tein
or JIC will do it - I'm convinced of that, now that I have both cars set
up. Err... When their engines get put back together, that
is... ;-) Are the bars worth the money? If you're NOT putting in a
real solid suspension, as above, you can't live without the towers and rear
sway, IMO. Some folks have installed the front sway bars, but they will
have to give you their opinions. Jury is out on the front sway for me,
since I don't have experience with them - only the advice of experts I trust,
who set up race car suspensions for a living... They race at the same
tracks we do, and they said I don't need one on either the Stealth or the
VR-4.
Best,
Forrest
------------------------------
> Some folks have installed the front sway bars, but they will have
to
> give you their opinions. Jury is out on the front sway for
me,
> since I don't have experience with them -
I have the front Addco Anti-Sway bar, and I love it. Granted it was quite a
pain to do in the driveway, but the after results are the best.
My alignment didn't really budge with the addition of the bar, and it was a
dramatic increase in handling. Since I have a SOHC 92 Stealth, they don't make a
rear anti-sway bar for my car, but the front bar got rid of alot of the body
roll from both the front and rear of the car.
Don't know if this little bit of info will help.
Mike Guy
92 SOHC Stealth
Addco Front Sway bar--NICE!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:10:25 -0700
From: "Rick Pierce" <
RickPierce@pacbell.net>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
Here's my experience if it helps -
I bought one of the solid Front tower bar off-brands when they were first
produced a year ago on 3Si ($150 shipped). It is welded, 2 bolt (not full
circle), and all it did was increase the stability of the front end (not a lot
though). Others who bought this bar had a hit or miss proposition with
hood fit - but mine fits fine. I also didn't need a smaller battery with
the clone, just a new hold-down. Probably not needed on our cars - They
help a lot on 510s and DSMs.
I next put the Tusco clone? rear Tower bar on my VR-4 and it definitely
tightened up the rear towers, but didn't seem to have a huge impact in reducing
understeer. I think it is a worthwhile upgrade - I picked up mine of 3Si
for only $70 so to me it is worth it.
Lastly, I put on the Rear Saner Anti-Sway bar. I still have stock
springs and ECS struts and this was by far the best bang-for-the-buck handling
improvement I have made. Understeer seems to be gone entirely and with the
Rear Tower bar, the rear end is extremely solid. You can force oversteer
(or have it happen) if you unload the rear in a turn and back off the gas (just
think of massive unweighting/unloading) but as long as you know that the
condition is there, it is controllable and a joy to drive. I have a friend
in San Diego that also had the TEC Tower Bars (both) and auto-crosses his 94 TT
and after putting on the Saner Rear bar, he had to remove the front tower bar to
eliminate understeer. For road courses, I think you could leave the front
tower bar on. I have no intention of putting the front anti-sway bar
on as I like my handling the way it is right now.
I have been in Bob's car with the JICs and it definitely doesn't need the
rear anti-sway bar, hell with those springs there's no suspension movement. It
truly handles like a track only car. I think JIC should make various
springs available as part of the purchase price - to me the 800 front and 400???
rear are way too stiff (I would like to see it wit a reduction in spring rates
of 25% to 33% and an increase in the dampening). For me, I like my
combination just fine as it is very comfortable on the street and works well out
on the track (nothing like the JICs though). Bob's FWD base Stealth threw
a rod before I could see the difference in handling the front tower bar made (or
the GC setup) so I can't comment on that.
My recommendation for a relatively stock TT/VR-4 car would be just try the
Rear Saner anti-sway bar first and use the tower bars to fine tune the handling
to your driving style and likes.
Best, Rick
PS Damon made up some great installation instructions for the
rear bar awhile ago - should be in the archives, I used them and they helped
greatly
------------------------------
After looking around again at costs for the timing belt and water pump
service, I am thinking about doing it myself.
But I am confused at what I saw in the service manual and was wondering why
the cam pulleys need to be removed. Won't the timing belt come off when I
remove the adjuster ?
Leaving the cam pulleys on would save a lot of work.
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:39:08 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
Others have pretty much hit the major points, but I'll throw my feedback in
as well. I did my suspension in stages and noticed improvements in every
step. The last steps showed less dramatic improvements, but I believe that
to be more a function diminishing returns, based on having already upgraded
several things.
I'm *really* happy with the suspension in my VR-4 right now. The ride
on the street is pretty close to stock (a tiny bit stiffer that you notice on
bad roads), and the steering is more responsive and requires more effort. That's
about all I notice on the street. At autocrosses, my car is a completely
different animal than it was stock - I'm more able to make the car do what I
want it to do, and it sticks much better. It's fairly neutral at 20-50mph
speeds, and I've got a video of me coming around the last 1/2 of a turnaround at
25mph in 2nd under WOT and the car has some pretty good yaw, but just sticks and
doesn't plow or spin.
I haven't gotten to play with the new suspension at higher speeds, but that
will be rectified soon.
Here are my installation notes and pictures, in order of
installation:
Saner Rear Sway Bar:
* no web page yet, but eventually I'll get around
to it
For thoroughness, my old rear shock tower brace:
The Cusco rear brace works fine with the OEM cargo cover and the removable
sunroof storage brackets. The TEC rear brace works fine with the cargo
cover, and Chris is working on cover plates that replace the stock ones and have
a provision for mounting the roof. I don't have those cover plates
yet.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:40:22 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k service question
If you're talking about the camshaft sprockets, you're correct in that they
don't have to be removed.
> But I am confused at what I saw in the service manual and was
>
wondering why the cam pulleys need to be removed. Won't the timing
>
belt come off when I remove the adjuster ?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 17:03:24 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
60k service question
While it is correct that they don't "have to be removed." It is recommended
that the seals be replaced at the 60,000 mile service, for this the
sprockets
need to be removed.
> If you're talking about the camshaft sprockets, you're correct in that
> they don't have to be removed.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 13:12:53 -0400
From: ERIC PIERCE PIERCE <
griz600cc@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
I haven't tried the TEC bars. I do have the adjustable Cusco and I am
quite pleased with them. I can still use the cargo cover without a
problem.
Eric
1993 Dodge Stealth ES
Eibach springs
KYB GR-2 front struts
KYB GR-2 rear shocks
Addco
front sway bars
Addco rear sway bars
Cusco rear strut tower
Slotted
rotors
Stillen brakes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:40:06 -0700
From: "Edward Vinces" <
ed@compros.com>
Subject: Team3S: Mitsu
Logo
If you refer to the VR4 logo, it was sold by:
http://www.chapor.com/vr4.html
however I tried several times to order it and they never answered my e-mails. If
you think that there is a market for it, one of my customers does custom signs,
and they can cut the same logos for us, I would not mind a set for myself, since
my car has been fully dechromed and has no logos at all.
I think that it can be cut on vinyl colors or metal. We can probably get
them for about half the price of chapor.com, let's find out if there is a need
for it.
Ed Vinces 91 VR4 70 Challenger T/A 59 Piper Comanche
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:07:46 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
I've been going nuts trying to find English instructions for the new A'PEXi
SAFC-II. My shop has the VR-4 for two weeks now with its guts hanging out,
and he's managed to figure out where to hook up the sensors and all, but he
NEEDS to know what color wires go 'where' when connecting to the ECU!?!
I've looked all over the net, and plodded through all the BS on the 3Si board
and I've still come up empty. It turns out that this unit was grey market,
brought in from Japan, (no a big deal about that), but that since APEXi has not
released it in this country, there ARE no English instructions yet! I know
that some people have installed it themselves, so if anyone has insights on the
wire hookups, PLEASE contact me as soon as possible! Thanks in
advance...
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:09:36 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
60k service question
The 60k service page on our website will give you a wealth of information,
including a number of insights along the way by author Rich Leroy, Erik (with a
link to his 60k page), Jack T, etc.
www.Team3S.com/60k.htm-
--Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:15:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Chad and Carol Decker
<
carolnchad@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil/Gas
I was just wondering if it was normal for your oil to smell like gas?
I know they are from the same crude natural resource, but to me they have always
had two different smells. Today when I was checking my oil I noticed that
my oil cap might be leaking and I took it off to check and it smelled like gas
bad. Thanks, Carol Decker 1991 Stealth R/T TT AWD
------------------------------
Sounds like your running really rich.
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chad and Carol Decker
[mailto:carolnchad@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:16 PM
I was just wondering if it was normal for your oil to smell like gas?
I know they are from the same crude natural resource, but to me they have always
had two different smells. Today when I was checking my oil I noticed that
my oil cap might be leaking and I took it off to check and it smelled like gas
bad.
Thanks, Carol Decker 1991 Stealth R/T TT AWD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:26:16 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Oil/Gas
Sounds like you're running rich. All cars have a certain amount of
gasoline vapor blow-by. However, if your car is running rich, the amount
of blow-by can increase. It can also cause excessive carbon buildup on the
piston rings, which can cause the rings to stick, thus increasing ever more the
amount of blow-by, therefore causing an increasing smell of gas. Is you
oil thinner than it should be?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:35:13 -0600 (CST)
From: Chad and Carol Decker
<
carolnchad@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Running Rich
My oil is very thin and VERY black. Elaborate on the spun
bearing.....because when my factory boost gauge reaches 14 lbs. it makes a
really funny noise. I have been scared it might be a bearing. Is
there anything that can be done about my running rich problem before really bad
things happen if they haven't happened already? Also, how much is it to
fix a spun bearing? Would it be best to have it rebuilt or buy a new
one? Also, the famous ticking lifters would be worse if I ran rich because
of the sticking pistons ...etc.? Thanks, Carol Decker 1991 Stealth R/T TT
AWD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:38:29 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
Does this help, Bob?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:39:49 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Running Rich
Lifter tick would not be associated with sticking piston rings. However,
the lifter tick may get worse as the oil thins. Also, if you had a spun
bearing, you'd be hearing a constant low-end knock as the engine idles
that
increases with engine speed.
Do you have any intake or fuel mods on your car?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chad and Carol Decker
[mailto:carolnchad@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:35 PM
My oil is very thin and VERY black. Elaborate on the spun
bearing.....because when my factory boost gauge reaches 14 lbs. it makes a
really funny noise. I have been scared it might be a bearing. Is
there anything that can be done about my running rich problem before really bad
things happen if they haven't happened already? Also, how much is it to
fix a spun bearing? Would it be best to have it rebuilt or buy a new
one? Also, the famous ticking lifters would be worse if I ran rich because
of the sticking pistons ...etc.? Thanks, Carol Decker 1991 Stealth R/T TT
AWD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 12:41:45 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Removing stock boost solenoid boost restrictor
I'm finally getting around to removing the boost restrictor from the stock
boost solenoid on my '91 VR4. I saw a similar VR4 with the boost solenoid
hoses removed and I am wanting to verify which nipple the restrictor is in.
It appeared to be in the lower nipple.
Also, I'm looking for any tips on removing the restrictor from those of you
who have done it. I have an old email from Matt Jannusch where he describes
using a small drill bit to grab the insert and pull it out. Any other
thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to attempt
this task this weekend.
Thanks as always for the fine technical aspects of this email group.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:50:04 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Questions for those of you with aftermarket Y-Pipes. I installed one
last weekend (along with the DNP Hardpipe and turbo-intake pipe kit). Now my
boost is low (will only get up to around 5-6psi on the inherently inaccurate
STOCK boost gauge). Before, the boost gauge would peg out. All connections
appear to be leak-free. I plan to check that again this weekend.
A member of the 3SI group questioned whether I re-installed the metal
"nipple" that connects the vacuum hose to the stock Y-Pipe, and suggested that
if it was missing, it could be causing a low-boost condition. I did not
re-install it, mainly because the nipple on the Y-pipe was much larger. I
also upgraded most of my vacuum hoses to Hosetech.
Question 1: Can that missing little metal piece cause a low-boost
condition and, if so, why? Question 2: Besides the hose running to the
brake booster, do any of the smaller vacuum hoses have check valves in them that
I might have inadvertently eliminated by changing over the Hosetech?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:57:20 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
Apparently, he can't use these instructions for a 2nd gen Eclipse on a 1st
gen VR-4... ;-) I sent that to him 2 weeks ago, and he (like me)
doesn't want to take a chance in connecting the wrong wires. Thanks
anyway...
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:01:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II
(ASAP)!
Well, cross reference the labels for the wires, and use a service manual to
find the proper ones.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:02:37 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
All the info you need is right there. Use the electrical manual to
find the proper wires. Or, if you don't have an electrical manual, what
year is your car? I could lookup the wires quickly...
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:05:41 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
If I recall correctly, the wire colors are exactly like the original SAFC,
so you could just use those instructions. The only change is the addition
of the Purple knock wire hookup.
- - Brian
> Apparently, he can't use these instructions for
a 2nd gen
> Eclipse on a 1st gen VR-4... ;-) I sent that to
him 2
> weeks ago, and he (like me) doesn't want to take a chance
>
in connecting the wrong wires. Thanks anyway...
>
>
--Forrest
------------------------------
> Question 2: Besides the hose running to the brake booster, do
any of
> the smaller vacuum hoses have check valves in them that I might
have
> inadvertently eliminated by changing over the Hosetech?
The clutch booster hose also has a check valve in it. That hose
connects to the rear driver's side of the plenum.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:21:57 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
Anyone from the list run the 12.00 at New England Dragway last night?
Usually the folks up there tend to run 17s in heavily modded VR4s. I
myself ran a 16 (not last night), but come on - I didn't have a 2nd gear (or a
first after that run actually ;).
Question for the list: What octane should I be running at the track (i.e.
race gas)? I'm assuming I can run about 15psi on 94o, how about on the
race stuff, I'm assuming I can run about 18psi on some form of high
octane. I'm running 450ccs and the supra pump, so I think I've got enough
fuel - anything specific I should be doing with the AFC? I previously
tuned with 11.5 psi and ran 12.0:1 across the rpm range. Can I leave the
AFC settings or should I pull back with the higher boost settings? Anyone
else running 15/18psi on 450ccs with an AFC - what are your settings?
TIA,
geis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:31:49 -0600
From: "Labonte, Dan" <
DLabonte@SturmanIndustries.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
"Usually the folks up there tend to run 17s"
Hmmm, that does not seem right. I would remove the mods if they are
getting 17s. You should be able to run at least 14.5 with a stock VR-4.
Unless there reaction times are that bad. 12 is good though.
Dan Labonte
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 20:49:24 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: boost problems after Y-pipe install
The wastegates only open if the actuators receive pressure above 6-7 psi
(normal operation). When you did not re-connect the hose to the Y-pipe, the
actuators lost the reference signal, meaning they should not open at all (high
boost should develop). If boost is only getting to 6-7 psi then the wastegates
are opening normally. So where is the pressure coming from?
There are no one-way valves in the boost-control related hoses that I am
aware of. They would not be needed anyway. For the brake and clutch boosters,
the one-way valves are there so that the boosters only see vacuum, not
boost.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Sent: Thursday,
May 01, 2003 1:50 PM
Questions for those of you with aftermarket Y-Pipes. I installed one
last weekend (along with the DNP Hardpipe and turbo-intake pipe kit). Now my
boost is low (will only get up to around 5-6psi on the inherently inaccurate
STOCK boost gauge). Before, the boost gauge would peg out. All connections
appear to be leak-free. I plan to check that again this weekend.
A member of the 3SI group questioned whether I re-installed the metal
"nipple" that connects the vacuum hose to the stock Y-Pipe, and suggested that
if it was missing, it could be causing a low-boost condition. I did not
re-install it, mainly because the nipple on the Y-pipe was much larger. I
also upgraded most of my vacuum hoses to Hosetech.
Question 1: Can that missing little metal piece cause a low-boost
condition and, if so, why? Question 2: Besides the hose running to the
brake booster, do any of the smaller vacuum hoses have check valves in them that
I might have inadvertently eliminated by changing over the Hosetech?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:44:25 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 3S-Racers:
Re: Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
If you install a good coil over system on either of the cars you may not
need the beefed up sway bars however the strut tower bars are a completely
different animal. Their job is to prevent chassis flex and the subsequent
change in suspension geometry --- JIC and others will not stop chassis
flex.
Jim
Berry
===========================================
> I installed another TEC on the VR-4, but the suspension is so tight
> and neutral with the JIC's, I'm not planning on putting on either the
> rear Saner sway bar OR rear strut tower bar (that I already
bought).
> Two different performance experts told me the same thing
- that they
> didn't think the car needed either of them with that JIC
Magic
> (believe it!) suspension. Too bad they wont fit on the
Stealth. ;-)
> The same guys told me I *needed* both rear
tower & rear sway on the
> Stealth - especially the sway bar.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:39:39 -0500
From: "Scott Savoie" <
scott_savoie@charter.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Electrical Nightmare - Update
Hey guys, I just wanted to give you an update on my "electrical nightmare".
I wrote in back in November about the problem I had with my VR-4 (an electrical
short of some sort). Anyway, I purchased a rebuilt computer in November
when the old one burnt up. I installed it but never hooked it up (scared
this one would blow up also). The car stayed covered and out of commission
for the winter. I searched for a competent electrical troubleshooter, but
could not get anyone to recommend a place to bring the car. Finally, out
of disgust, I brought it to the local Mitsu dealer. They looked it over
and found no problems. Next, they hooked up the computer and started the
car, no problems. It ran a little rough, not having been started since
November. Next came their diagnostic check - no problems noted. What
the heck is going on here? They just called me and said the car is running
fine and I can pick it up anytime. I am just wondering, could it be
possible that the surging and jumping around the car was doing before was caused
by the computer? I hope so. Please let me know your thoughts on
this.
Thanks,
Scott Savoie
1992 3000GT VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:02:27 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Removing stock boost solenoid boost restrictor
I used dental picks. But the small drill bit idea seems OK also. Yes, it is
the lower nipple. The upper nipple connects to the intake hose just in front of
the rear turbo.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, May
01, 2003 1:41 PM
I'm finally getting around to removing the boost restrictor from the stock
boost solenoid on my '91 VR4. I saw a similar VR4 with the boost solenoid
hoses removed and I am wanting to verify which nipple the restrictor is in.
It appeared to be in the lower nipple.
Also, I'm looking for any tips on removing the restrictor from those of you
who have done it. I have an old email from Matt Jannusch where he describes
using a small drill bit to grab the insert and pull it out. Any other
thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to attempt
this task this weekend.
Thanks as always for the fine technical aspects of this email group.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:03:17 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)
!
> I've been going nuts trying to find English instructions for
>
the new A'PEXi SAFC-II. My shop has the VR-4 for two weeks
> now
with its guts hanging out, and he's managed to figure
> out where to hook
up the sensors and all, but he NEEDS to
> know what color wires go
'where' when connecting to the ECU!?!
Bob,
As others have said, you have the labels for the wires on the
AFC from the ProStreet website. Since you have that information, you don't
need any other AFC-specific info to install it in your VR-4 - all you need is
the correct wire numbers/colors on your ECU harness. That is the same, no
matter what equipment you're installing.
You have a '91, right? All I have copied on my HD right now is the
'92-'96, but I can get the '91 info later today if no one else has it
handy. Also, if someone wants to confirm that a '92 and a '91 ECU have the
same harness (I believe they do), then this is what it'd look like for a
'92.
AFC Wire AFC Color '92 ECU#
'92 ECU Color
-
---------|-------------|----------|--------------
Power |
Red | 12 or 25 | 1.25
B-R
Airflow | Pink/Orange | 70
| L-Y
Throttle |
Gray |
64 | 1.25 BR-R
Knock |
Purple | 58
| W
RPM |
Green | 101
| W
Ground | Black/Brown | 26 or 13
| 1.25 B
- ---------|-------------|----------|--------------
ECU Color
Code:
B = Black
R = Red
L = Light
Blue
Y = Yellow
W = White
BR = Brown
Number in front of ECU color indicates size(mm) if other than
standard.
'92 ECU Harness(locking tabs upward):
--
--
--
01...........13 101.......108 51.........61
14...........26
109.......116 62.........72
You may need some more specific instructions once you get it powered up and
start poking around in the menus, but that stuff is generally in English and
should be decipherable.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:11:17 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: strut tower bars/braces
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> If you install a
good coil over system on either of the cars you may
> not need the beefed
up sway bars however the strut tower bars are a
> completely different
animal. Their job is to prevent chassis flex
> and the subsequent change
in suspension geometry --- JIC and others
> will not stop chassis
flex.
> Jim Berry
-
--------------------------------
Agreed. I'll be leaving the front tower bar on the car - it's
excellent. But I'm going to run it without the rear tower bar for now,
since I like what I feel so much, I don't want to 'fix" anything. Maybe
rear bodyflex helps the rear follow the front better(?). Whatever the
reason - I like what I feel as it is... At some point I might try the rear
tower bar, but this setup is TOO good to mess with. ;-) Thanks,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:44:29 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Need Instructions (English) for new SAFC-II (ASAP)!
Excellent - that makes great sense! I'll go right over there armed
with all these printouts and do it with him.
If I had known that I'd have to dig so hard for this info, I would have
bought something else that's got current documentation. Ya gotta realize
that since I have no garage to work in and it's a long block and a half hike to
even get to my car... Doing any work on it just doesn't turn me on
anymore, like it did when I had a place to work. I love doing the research
on *what* I want on the car, and *how* I want it set up, but I just want to pay
someone to do it for me - it's too big an ordeal otherwise..., and I have NO
free time. Hence, the blind frustration... ;-) Thanks to all
for helping out - I think I've got what I need. Except time (sigh).
-
--Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 15:53:13 -0600
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
I am still new to racing at the track (went once a couple weeks ago)
but I thought that reaction time had no effect on your ET? It just
played a part in whether you win or lose?
Gabe Simoes
1992 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo
- - K&N, EGR BlockOffs, Port & Polished Heads, Ported Manifolds,
Wiseco
Forged Pistons, GTPro 347s, MBC, DN Y-Pipe, TurboXS RFL, Stillen DP,
3SX Crank Pulley, RPS 6 Puck, Weight Redux
> "Usually the folks up there tend to run 17s"
>
> Hmmm,
that does not seem right. I would remove the mods if they are
>
getting 17s. You should be able to run at least 14.5 with a stock
>
VR-4. Unless there reaction times are that bad. 12 is good though.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:56:53 -0600
From: "Labonte, Dan" <
DLabonte@SturmanIndustries.com>
Subject:
RE: FW: Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
That would only be the case if you are doing Bracket Racing. Then
reaction time makes all the difference because the lights are staged so that you
both should reach the end of the track at the same time.
Dan
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gabe Simoes
[mailto:Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:53 PM
I am still new to racing at the track (went once a couple weeks ago)
but I thought that reaction time had no effect on your ET? It just
played a part in whether you win or lose?
Gabe Simoes
1992 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo
- - K&N, EGR BlockOffs, Port & Polished Heads, Ported Manifolds,
Wiseco
Forged Pistons, GTPro 347s, MBC, DN Y-Pipe, TurboXS RFL, Stillen DP,
3SX Crank Pulley, RPS 6 Puck, Weight Redux
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:05:39 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <
Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject:
RE: RE: FW: Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
How do you run a 16.00 1/4 mi with those parts on your car?
I have a 95 Spyder BPU and I ran a 13.9 @ 5800ft. I would think you would
be running at least low 13's if not high 12's at sea level.
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder BPU
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:18:57 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost problems after Y-pipe install
Based on the e-mails I got from others, I think there is a miscommunication
here. I reconnected the hose to the Y-Pipe, I just didn't use the little
metal piece that was attached to the stock Y-Pipe because (1) it didn't fit (the
aftermarket hose connection on the Y-Pipe was much bigger) and (2) I thought I
didn't need it, and (3) I changed my hoses to the Hosetech silicone setup.
Also, I use the 6-7 psi only as a reference as indicated on the stock boost
gauge. I know the stock
gauge is inherently inaccurate. But
before I made these mods, the
stock boost gauge would bury itself at the
14psi mark (I know it's nowhere near 14, because it's stock). Now it won't
go past the midline.
Can the larger hose size and larger connection be sending the actuator a
decreased reference signal?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
[mailto:jlucius@stealth316.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 4:49 PM
The wastegates only open if the actuators receive pressure above 6-7 psi
(normal operation). When you did not re-connect the hose to the Y-pipe, the
actuators lost the reference signal, meaning they should not open at all (high
boost should develop). If boost is only getting to 6-7 psi then the wastegates
are opening normally. So where is the pressure coming from?
There are no one-way valves in the boost-control related hoses that I am
aware of. They would not be needed anyway. For the brake and clutch boosters,
the one-way valves are there so that the boosters only see vacuum, not
boost.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 16:19:01 -0600
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: RE: FW: Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race
gas
I ran a 13.9 @ 10psi my 2nd time at the track (got kicked off for no
helmet) with an easy launch and granny shiftin @ 5500ft. Please
explain the bad 1/4s.
Gabe Simoes
1992 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo
- - K&N, EGR BlockOffs, Port & Polished Heads, Ported Manifolds,
Wiseco
Forged Pistons, GTPro 347s, MBC, DN Y-Pipe, TurboXS RFL, Stillen DP,
3SX Crank Pulley, RPS 6 Puck, Weight Redux
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:36:58 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost problems after Y-pipe install
It sounds like you might have bypassed your boost control solenoid in the
process of replacing your hoses with the Hose Techniques hoses. Look for
the farthest-toward-the-driver's-side black solenoid on the firewall behind the
throttle body. It should have 2 hoses connected to it, and they should be
connected according to the diagram in the service manual (one to the pre-turbo
intake and one to the "H" connector for the wastegate actuators).
BTW, within the range of +/-8psi or so, the stock gauge is reasonably
accurate, but has about a 1/2 sec delay in response time.
- --Erik
> Also, I use the 6-7 psi only
> as a reference as indicated on
the stock boost gauge. I know the stock
> gauge is inherently
inaccurate. But before I made these mods, the
> stock boost
gauge would bury itself at the 14psi mark (I know it's
> nowhere near 14,
because it's stock). Now it won't go past the midline.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:59:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Chad and Carol Decker
<
carolnchad@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Running Rich & Knocking
Alright, I have been e-mailing Joseph Starkey Jr. and he has been trying to
help me diagnose my problem...
1) It has been since November since I had an
oil change, but I hadn't reached 3000 miles yet. I was barely over 2000
since my last oil change
2) I do have a new downpipe and I believe 3 inch cat
all the way back
3) The "knocking" I am hearing is prominent both on
top of the engine and on the bottom half (listening from the wheel
well)
4) I just had my oil changed, and they messed up giving me
SuperTech Synthetic instead of Mobil 1, which I asked for....they then drove my
car around the shop and drained out the SuperTech and put in Mobil 1 IT WAS FREE
TOO!!! :) I lucked out
5) After my oil change the "knock" is
still there and it sounds like billiard balls being clanked together only it is
not as obnoxious and it repeats steadily, however, it does stop at times, mostly
after the car is warm it doesn't sound like knocking on a wooden door
Could there be something wrong w/ the car to make it run so rich? My
oil smells like gas bad, my exhaust pipe is black, and my oil was really black
and super thin.
I am sure this is in the archives some place. Sorry for the
repetition. I am just scared I might have a spun bearing. Thanks, Carol
Decker 1991 Stealth R/T TT AWD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:30:14 -0600
From: "Moe Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 3kgt at New England Dragway last night & race gas
Gabe,
Curtis got you mixed up with Geisel. When I first read the emails, I
thought the same thing until I looked at the names.
Rgds
Moe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Simoes" <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Sent:
Thursday, May 01, 2003 4:19 PM
> I ran a 13.9 @ 10psi my 2nd time at the track (got kicked off for
no
> helmet) with an easy launch and granny shiftin @ 5500ft. Please
> explain the bad 1/4s.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:10:57 -0400
From: "Lorne Silkes" <
vr4@cwia.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 3kgt at
New England Dragway last night & race gas
Not sure if he is on this list but he posts on 3si.org as Feral. I
can't think of his real name right now. I know he has DR 650R's, Propane
Inj, ARC2. He blew what he thinks was his transfer case on the last run of
the night.
Lorne
------------------------------
Do I need to manufacture an "Air-Box" if I get rid of my Factory Air-Filter
and what model of K & N filter is recommended? Is there anything special
that I need to do when I install the filter or does it just go straight in? Do I
even need an "Air-Box?"
Cheers....HOF.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:29:04 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Air-Box/Filter Upgrade
I have the K&N FIPK with no air box. Install is easy--remove the
stock airbox, install the K&N adaptor to the MAF, put the filter on, and
you're done.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#144
***************************************