Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, April 28
2003 Volume 02 : Number 141
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:59:30 +0100
From: "Ivan Gore" <
i.d.gore@talk21.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ECS fault
I have a problem with my ECS system, I have the tour/sport light flashing,
I have checked the blink codes and determined the fault as code 62 F.L. actuator
abnormal.
Question 1 Is the left viewed from the front of the car
or from the
drivers seat?
I have checked the wiring at both front shocks as described in the
technical manual, all appear ok, I have checked the voltages at all the wires
and they are both the same for both sides so I assume all is well to this point,
so I suspect a fault in the strut itself.
Question 2 Can the front strut be dismantled to check the
micro-motor and
the position detection switch?
Question 3 Five wires go into the strut assembly, two
blue with grey
bands, two black with grey bands and one white with a red
stripe, what voltages should be seen at these wires and what do they connect to
within the strut so I can try and identify the problem?
Question 4 Is the strut replaced as a complete unit or
can the actuator
assembly be replaced separately?
Many thanks.
Ivan Gore, Torquay, UK.
92 GTO Twin Turbo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:31:58 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Data logger for Second Gen
All years have the knock sensor and an output line to the ECU --- the
problem is getting the knock information out of the ECU. I've seen claims
that the ECU, or a separate circuit, preprocess the raw sensor information for
use by the ECU --- in the case of the 1st gen cars the processed info is
available to the data logger as a knock sum while such info is NOT
available
to the 2nd gen owners.
The TIM on the Team 3S or Jeff Lucius' site has some good, but
limited, info on the sensor.
Jim
Berry
=========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
> I believe, the '94-'95 has knock sensor built in (someone correct
me
> if I'm wrong), it's just a matter if the ECU gives up that info to a
> datalogger, or maybe, more importantly, if someone knows how to
> extract that info from the ECU. IMHO, the best ECU to get is a
'93.
> (I am fortunate enough to have this). It uses the crank
sensor, which
> is more common, and it also only uses minimal o2
sensors. It doesn't
> have checks to make sure the cat is working
or anything... Really, if
> I had a VR4, '94 or later, I would
definitely be looking for a way to
> get the '93 ECU in there.
>
> As with DSM's, no one wants a '96+ turbo, unless they plan on
swapping
> in a '95 ECU. Also, anything later than '92 to '94 has
the non-EEPROM
> ecu, and most will swap in a '90-'91 ECU due to it's
programmability.
------------------------------
I have been searching for a front valve cover to polish for my 1997 VR-4
for months now, without finding one.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:10:57 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
valve cover search saga
CAP's sez --- There was a change in mid 92 but the new part supercedes the
old part. Therefore in your case anything from build date 4/92 on is the same as
yours and pre 4/92 may work.
Jim Berry
================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:23:43 -0700
From: "Andy" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: valve cover search saga
How do you polish a valve cover? I would like to do the same
thing.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:34:26 -0600
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: valve cover search saga
IMO, a polished valve cover doesn't look as good as a polished intake
manifold. I polished my manifold and it contrasts nicely against a
freshened valve cover with polished lettering.
Anyways, I polished some aluminum parts by taking a long bit (for
power
drill) and cutting a slit in it and using strips of different grit sand
paper. (ghetto way but it worked damn good). Started with 80, 240, 360,
600, 1000 then used a polishing wheel and roush. Took me 30+ hours to do,
so if I had to do it again...I would send it to Dave Best for the price.
Gabe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday,
April 27, 2003 6:23 PM
> How do you polish a valve cover? I would like to do the same
thing.
------------------------------
Hi guys-
I am planning on taking on old, Ugly VR-4 will millions
of miles on it,
and refurbishing it. I plan to someday make it a quick 1/4
mile dragster.
My question is should i go with the old VR-4, or keep my 97 SL, which is
the
body style I want, and just convert that. All the holes and room is
already
there, and since I would have to take the TT apart anyway, would it
really
matter? It would take many years ( some of you guys know this), But I
would
redo that car inside and out all the way from the piston rings to the
fan
speed knob. Which is quicker and cheaper???
mike
97 SL
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:00:55 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: TT conversion
Neither, buy a DSM and do the same for about 5 grand in mods and a year or
less worth of time :)
But in all reality, keep the SL as a daily driver, then work on the
TT... It already has a lot more pieces you will need, and instead of
trying to make it work, it just works from the factory... If you need to
replace whatever, you just replace, you don't force it to work...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:36:58 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
At 03:22 AM 4/27/2003, Jim Matthews wrote:
>Are there no benefits to
the '94-'95 ECU?
From what I heard so far, it seems like all the years have the same
sensor
outputs, except for the 96+, which have two more post precat sensors.
All
the 3s cars are equipped with knock sensors. It is a matter of how the
ECU
looks at them and how it reports that information to the diagnostics
tools,
such as various "scan tools" and loggers.
The 91-93, 94-95, and 96+ use different and incompatible protocols to
communicate to those "scan tools". The 91-93 used OBD-I. The 96+ uses
OBD-II. The 94-95 used something in between.
Automakers always try to improve their engine control systems. The usual
reasons for that are to improve robustness, reduce variability, improve
emissions and engine starting. It seems like the 91-93 cars rely on the cam
sensor signal more than the 94+ cars to determine the correct timing for
the ignition and fuel injection events. The 94+ cars use the crank sensor
more. The crank sensor is generally a superior sensor. It has a much better
resolution. It spins twice as fast as the cam sensor, it can have more
pulses for better resolution, and it is installed directly on the crank
thus unaffected by loose and vibrating timing belts and other
variables.
Emissions is a big driver in changing engine control systems. The most
recent has been the so-called New Generation Controller or NGC. It uses 32
crank pulses and 7 cam pulses of variable length. Of course, all the
software had to be changed too. The result is a more precise ignition and
fuel injection events and a faster engine start. Now the engine does not
need to turn two revolutions before the ECU figures out where everything is
and starts firing the cylinders correctly. Before it used to dump fuel and
not burn it, which was resulting in excess cold start emissions.
The turbocharged engine performance is usually limited by knock. More
stable spark means the engine calibration engineers are able to calibrate
engines more aggressively. I would bet the 94+ ECU produces more stable
spark signals. You might be able to see the difference while using a simple
timing light. Joe K. was checking my timing with a timing light and noticed
that my spark timing was much more stable than on his '91 (although it has
the AEM EMS at that time). Utilizing the crank sensor for ignition timing
alone, probably allowed Mitsubishi to increase the safe boost level by 20
HP when they went to the 2nd gen ECU's. The 4-bolt crank mains was just a
way to support the increased horsepower.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:13:52 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: valve cover search saga
I bought a Dremel, little bugger is awesome IMO. I take little sanding
wheels and cut different grit sandpaper to fit onto them, then grind away, and
finally polish. The grooves and letters are more difficult, but nice curves and
flat sections are cake. Donald Ashby '93 3000GT VR-4 (RIP) "Don't drink and
park, accidents cause people!"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Simoes" <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Sent:
Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:34 PM
IMO, a polished valve cover doesn't look as good as a polished intake
manifold. I polished my manifold and it contrasts nicely against a
freshened valve cover with polished lettering.
Anyways, I polished some aluminum parts by taking a long bit (for
power
drill) and cutting a slit in it and using strips of different grit sand
paper. (ghetto way but it worked damn good). Started with 80, 240, 360,
600, 1000 then used a polishing wheel and roush. Took me 30+ hours to do,
so if I had to do it again...I would send it to Dave Best for the price.
Gabe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:13:49 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: valve cover search saga
I just finished polishing my valve cover and plenum. Here's how I
did
it:
1. Plenum: First, I put on a good quality
respirator
(don't skip step one! it's amazing how much aluminum dust
will be generated and you don't want to be breathing that stuff in.) I
used a die grinder with a 220 disc to grind off all the texture. Then,
using emery cloth, I sanded it down using 220, 320 and then 400 grit, sanding in
opposite directions each time I changed grits. I did the same thing using
a dremel tool in all the crevices. Once all the sanding was done, I
polished it using emery compound, then tripoli (make sure you use separate
polishing wheels for each compound) using a high speed drill.
2. For the valve cover, I followed the same
procedure,
except I used Bix Stipper to strip off the rough black paint
first, and eliminated the "die grinder" step as unnecessary since, once you get
the paint off, the valve cover is not as rough as the plenum. Polishing
the valve cover took me 1/3 of the time it took me to do the plenum.
I then polished both again using a high-quality aluminum
polish.
The results I obtained using this procedure are phenomenal. PATIENCE
and a LOT of work is the key to a mirror finish.
------------------------------
I found a set of pre-polished Valve covers at
www.gtpro.com. Since I lack the patience to
polish my own and they are kinda bland looking, its a SOHC, not quite positive
if the valve covers are the same.
But I was wondering if the Valve covers at GT Pro.com will fit my car. It
says on the caption for N/A and Turbo cars, but a base model 3g/s is not on the
list. The lowest they go is a ES model.
Mike Guy
92 SOHC Stealth
Addco Front Anti-Sway Bar---NICE!!
------------------------------
Dan, nice description, but I think some will take issue with your "perfect"
0 degree camber - I think a couple of degrees negative camber is nice, front and
rear.
Chuck Willis
The net of all this is a set up that dials to *absolute perfect* mitsu
street spec (which I believe is 0 degree camber). My car always had a
tendency to subtly begin listing to the left not long after alignment.
That situation is gone.
Dan
Pearl White 1997 VR4
K&N; FlowMaster Catback;
Saner
Performance Sway Bars (Front/Rear);
TEC Strut Tower bars (Front/Rear);
3SX
Adjustable Rear Control Arms;
K40 Radar; Enkei 18x9.5 RP01 w/Nitto NT 555 -
265/35 ZR18
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:09:11 -0700
From: "Andy" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: valve cover search saga
Great instructions Joe. Was the work with the emery cloth done by
hand? and what type of tool did you use on the dremel tool. I have a
dremel tool that runs off my air compressor. Will this work? Also, what is
"tripoli". I think I am going to try this.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:14:01 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: valve cover search saga
Yep, the emery cloth was done by hand. I used one of those rubber
sanding blocks for most of it. Some had to be done with the fingers. For
the dremel, I used the sanding drums (both sizes--I think they're 1/4" and
1/2"), sanding discs, and a few of cutting bits to get in the crevices.
That's about it. You're dremel tool should work just fine.
Tripoli is the final polishing rouge you use for non-ferrous metals, such
as aluminum.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andy
[mailto:awoll1@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:09 AM
Great instructions Joe. Was the work with the emery cloth done by hand? and
what type of tool did you use on the dremel tool. I have a dremel tool
that runs off my air compressor. Will this work? Also, what is "tripoli".
I think I am going to try this.
Andy
------------------------------
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Gore
[mailto:i.d.gore@talk21.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 1:00 PM
I have a problem with my ECS system, I have the tour/sport light flashing,
I have checked the blink codes and determined the fault as code 62 F.L. actuator
abnormal.
Question 1 Is the left viewed from the front of
the car or from the
drivers seat?
convention is direction the car usually moves in. FL = drivers side
front.
I have checked the wiring at both front shocks as described in the
technical manual, all appear ok, I have checked the voltages at all the wires
and they are both the same for both sides so I assume all is well to this point,
so I suspect a fault in the strut itself.
did you unplug the connector from the top of the shock and clean both
connectors with electrical contact cleaner? did you plug it back snug and
correctly? There is a keyway to help.
there are a couple of easy things to check on the strut - are the two holes
lined up between the upper and lower spring perch?
Is there fluid leaking out of the shock?
Question 2 Can the front strut be dismantled to check the
micro-motor and
the position detection switch?
not by anyone I know. the strut and shock are an integral part.
we had an interesting problem with the rear ECS shocks. They only seem to
work when the shaft is oriented in certain directions. I suspect this may also
be the case with the front shocks, but don't know for sure.
Question 3 Five wires go into the strut assembly, two
blue with grey
bands, two black with grey bands and one white with a red
stripe, what voltages should be seen at these wires and what do they connect to
within the strut so I can try and identify the problem?
you should get a service manual.
Question 4 Is the strut replaced as a complete unit or
can the actuator
assembly be replaced separately?
see #2
Chuck Willis
Many thanks.
Ivan Gore, Torquay, UK.
92 GTO Twin Turbo
------------------------------
Could someone please repost the link to the cheap fix for the y-pipe
gasket? It was a piece of hose and two clamps.
Also, could someone remind me of the link to the guy who sells the nice
chrome y-pipe with the hose and clamps? Although I bought one of these for
my '94 VR4, my '93VR4 is now in need of one (my goop repair job lasted for a
year or so, and I am now on the black electrical tape version).
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:26:57 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
> From what I heard so far, it seems like all
> the years
have the same sensor outputs, except
> for the 96+, which have two more
post precat
> sensors.
California emission cars also have a total of four O2 sensors in '95 and
possibly in '94. That includes all 3000GT Spyders.
We should make a chart of all this ECU info - it seems to come up
periodically.
> I would bet the 94+ ECU produces more stable
> spark signals.
You might be able to see the
> difference while using a simple timing
light.
> Joe K. was checking my timing with a timing
> light and
noticed that my spark timing was much
> more stable than on his '91
(although it has
> the AEM EMS at that time).
If you ground the timing control test terminal, then the timing is pretty
much
rock-solid at 5 degrees BTDC on any year 3/S. Without the
terminal grounded,
the ECU varies timing by about 3-5 degrees to produce a
more stable idle and
reduce emissions.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:36:43 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: valve cover search saga
> But I was wondering if the Valve covers at
> GT Pro.com will fit
my car. It says on the
> caption for N/A and Turbo cars, but a
base
> model 3g/s is not on the list. The lowest
> they go is a ES
model.
Nope, it won't fit. You've got one too few cams, and the cam is in
the wrong
position for the cover to fit.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:53:53 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Alignment, Control Arms and Deer in Headlights
Chuck, a couple of degrees is a little aggressive for street use --- tire
life is reduced drastically. I 'think' stock is about -¼º or a ½. I'll run
-1 to -1½ on my street setup but money is no object to a man of my immense
wealth.
> Dan, nice description, but I think some will take issue with
your
> "perfect" 0 degree camber - I think a couple of degrees
negative
> camber is nice, front and rear.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:43:42 +0200
From: "Roger L. Skoglund" <
norbolig@online.no>
Subject: Team3S:
Wheels Specification - Stealth R/T twinturbo
Hello Team3S members,
I am looking for the exact wheel specification on a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T
twinturbo. So far I have found the wheel offset (that appears to be 46 mm (1.8
inches) for all the Stealth models), but I cannot find the specification for the
"lug diameter" (circle)
One more question: is it possible to specify how far outboard the "spokes"
on the wheel must be, in order to clear the brake calipers ?
Best regards,
Roger
------------------------------
Now that you mention it, I think mine is -1.5 degrees also. That is, "a
couple" to one significant digit!
I think I used to run it at -3/4 degree (the edge of stock limit) at stock
height and then lower the car about 1" which increased it in the negative
direction to about 1.5 degrees.
Are you having any unusual wear on your rear tires?
Chuck
(send some of your immense wealth to Texas)
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
[mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:54 AM
Chuck, a couple of degrees is a little aggressive for street use --- tire
life is reduced drastically. I 'think' stock is about -¼º or a ½. I'll run
-1 to -1½ on my street setup but money is no object to a man of my immense
wealth.
Jim Berry
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:17:40 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
cheap y-pipe gasket fix
How cheap do you want. Ours is $18 and consists of more than just a piece
of
hose and 2 clamps, it also contains an inner ring for the ypipe to keep
the
clamp from crushing the Ypipe and making the hose pop off. The ID of the
ring
is the same as the ID of the stock throttle body. We've pressure tested
this to
45 PSI (not on the car.)
www.drunkenbear.biz
> Could someone please repost the link to the cheap fix for the
y-pipe
> gasket? It was a piece of hose and two clamps.
>
> Also, could someone remind me of the link to the guy who sells
the
> nice chrome y-pipe with the hose and clamps? Although I bought
one
> of these for my '94 VR4, my '93VR4 is now in need of one (my
goop
> repair job lasted for a year or so, and I am now on the
black
> electrical tape version).
>
> Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:55:04 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: cheap y-pipe gasket fix
I suppose this wont work with aftermarket Y-Pipes that have a diameter
larger than the stock throttle body?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
nouveau3@attbi.com
[mailto:nouveau3@attbi.com]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:18 AM
How cheap do you want. Ours is $18 and consists of more than just a piece
of
hose and 2 clamps, it also contains an inner ring for the ypipe to keep
the
clamp from crushing the Ypipe and making the hose pop off. The ID of the
ring
is the same as the ID of the stock throttle body. We've pressure tested
this to
45 PSI (not on the car.)
www.drunkenbear.biz
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:59:10 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
cheap y-pipe gasket fix
You are correct. THIS IS FOR THE STOCK Y-PIPE ONLY!
> I suppose this wont work with aftermarket Y-Pipes that have a
diameter
> larger than the stock throttle body?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:43:11 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
valve cover search saga
Dave Best and others on the 3SI.org site do polishing and powder coating
for a bit less, you may want to check them out.
Jim Berry
==============================================
> I found a set of pre-polished Valve covers at
www.gtpro.com. Since I
> lack the patience
to polish my own and they are kinda bland looking,
> its a SOHC, not
quite positive if the valve covers are the same.
>
> But I was
wondering if the Valve covers at GT Pro.com will fit my car.
> It says on
the caption for N/A and Turbo cars, but a base model 3g/s
> is not on the
list. The lowest they go is a ES model.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:21:03 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 99 front corner indicators
The UK changed their lighting regulations and now I'm faced with modifying
my Stealth to comply (again). The new regulation states the
following:
"Lamps incorporating a side repeater are marked either with an 'E' mark in
a circle or an 'e' mark in a rectangle above which is a number 5. Some
vehicles are fitted with a wraparound lens with no European approval
markings. These can be tested by standing 1000mm to the side of the
vehicle's rear bumper with indicator on. If amber light can be seen coming
through the front lens (not a reflection), this is acceptable."
Needless to say I will avoid drilling holes in my fender to fit side lights
at all costs. My stock front indicators are not visible when standing to
the side of the car 1 meter away from the rear bumper, but I'm curious if the
1999 indicators would be visible, since they protrude out more (see
http://www.3sxperformance.com/body.asp).
Can anyone tell me if this is true and if the 1999 indicators would fit my '94
Stealth? The pictures look promising, but I need someone to actually take
a look...
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0
bar @ 64% BADC) A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery Redline synth fluids
(trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy) Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines,
red calipers Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph G-Tech Pro:
0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph 1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354
lb-ft torque
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#141
***************************************