Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, April 27
2003 Volume 02 : Number 140
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:23:15 -0700
From: Andy <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: rotors
It is very possible turning the rotors will end the problem. Some shops
charge under 10 per rotor for turning so be sure to shop around. If the rotors
are very old, very grooved, or very pitted, you are probably better off biting
the bullet and getting new ones. Depending on your use you have a large number
of choices. Stock replacements from Napa are 90 each after using my AAA
discount.
Andy
> I've developed a shake when braking from high speeds. I'm
assuming
> I've got warped front rotors.
>
> Is it reasonable
to expect that turning the rotors will solve this
> problem? Is it
possible that the rear rotors could contribute to the
>
shake?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> - Dan
> '95 Black
VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:29:59 -0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
That's right. The 1st gen (VR4 at least) has a Cam Angle
Sensor.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Sent: Friday, April
25, 2003 10:16 PM
> At 07:15 PM 4/25/2003, fastmax wrote:
> >93 is when the 4
bolt engine with the crank angle sensor was
> >introduced.
>
> So, before '93, there was not crank sensor at all?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:21:23 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Data logger for Second Gen
The pre 93 [ 6/92 build date ] which are also the two bolt main, cast
crankshaft
engines have a camshaft sensor of some sort. I think --- I
don't own one so don't shoot me already.
Jim Berry
=======================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Sent: Friday, April
25, 2003 10:16 PM
> At 07:15 PM 4/25/2003, fastmax wrote:
> >93 is when the 4
bolt engine with the crank angle sensor was
> >introduced.
>
> So, before '93, there was not crank sensor at all?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:11:28 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
Why did Mitsu change the ECU in '94?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:12:54 -0500
From: "Dan Hyde" <
danielhyde@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Alignment, Control Arms and Deer in Headlights
Ken
I replaced the rear upper control arms with the 3SX Adjustable Rear Control
Arms. (page to the bottom of their link)
http://www.3sxperformance.com/suspension-vertical.asp
There is another company providing these and was a topic on here some time back
but I can't remember the company - they looked to provide essentially the same
function.
You may notice in the 3SX picture, the lower arm is attached to the cradle
and there is a bolt and 'cam type' adjustment there. On my VR4
(incidentally also a 97), the relief welded to the cradle that provides the
camber adjustment when the bolt is turned had fractured. It looked like
someone had problems with alignment sometime, torque it a breaking point and
sprung the assembly. The 3SX bars would likely have provided the
adjustment needed to compensate for that problem but I'm a particular cuss
and opted to go ahead and replace the whole cradle assembly. That cradle
assembly is about $635 from Mitsu parts direct. The upper and lower control arms
are about $150 each. I didn't need to replace the lower control
arms.
On the stock upper control arms, you might want to look to see if you
have some bushing squish going on? The rubber in mine was not in perfect
condition anymore for whatever reason and might have allowed slight movement
under side loading. My right upper control arm did not show the same
problem condition. The 3SX units forego the rubber bushing design with a solid
mount - no noticeable noise or negative affects that I can detect with the solid
design.
The net of all this is a set up that dials to *absolute perfect* mitsu
street spec (which I believe is 0 degree camber). My car always had a
tendency to subtly begin listing to the left not long after alignment.
That situation is gone.
Dan
Pearl White 1997 VR4
K&N; FlowMaster Catback;
Saner
Performance Sway Bars (Front/Rear);
TEC Strut Tower bars (Front/Rear);
3SX
Adjustable Rear Control Arms;
K40 Radar; Enkei 18x9.5 RP01 w/Nitto NT 555 -
265/35 ZR18
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken Lovell" <
wklovell@yahoo.com>
>Sent:
Saturday, April 26, 2003 1:43 AM
>1. I've had a problem getting my 1997 VR4 aligned.
According to two
>different shops, they can't get the rear left wheel into
to come into
>alignment. They both said that either the upper or
lower control arm
>is slightly bent, but they can't tell which.
I've now had the car to a
>body shop and they can't find any kind of bend
in the arms either.
>Does anyone have any suggestions on other
directions to look? <snip>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:49:22 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
Let's get it right folks. Every (all years, NA or turbo) 3S 6G72 DOHC
engine has both a crank angle sensor and a top dead center sensor (also called a
cam angle sensor). The ECU must use the (square-wave) pulsed signals from *both*
sensors to determine each piston position for the purpose of setting ignition
timing. The crank angle sensor sends 6 pulses per 2 engine revolutions. The TDC
sensor sends 4 pulses per 2 engine revs (720º of rotation or 4 strokes in the
Otto cycle). The STIM, DTIM, and service manuals have more info.
1991-1992 DOHC CAS/CAS:
- ---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Re: Team3S: Data
logger for Second Gen
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:29:59 -0700
That's right. The 1st gen (VR4 at least) has a Cam Angle
Sensor.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:26:45 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Cam/crank sensors 1st/2nd gens (Re: Data logger for Second Gen)
At 02:49 PM 4/26/2003, Jeff Lucius wrote:
>Let's get it right folks.
Every (all years, NA or turbo) 3S 6G72 DOHC
>engine has both a crank
angle sensor and a top dead center sensor (also
>called a cam angle
sensor). The ECU must use the (square-wave) pulsed
>signals from *both*
sensors to determine each piston position for the
>purpose of setting
ignition timing. The crank angle sensor sends 6
>pulses per 2 engine
revolutions. The TDC sensor sends 4 pulses per 2
>engine revs (720? of
rotation or 4 strokes in the Otto cycle).
That is exactly the same way that I have it on my '95 too. So what's the
@#$% difference then? I am getting the same signal to my ECU. I just do not
have an adjustable camshaft sensor. I have no clue why Mitsu made an
adjustable cam sensor on the 1st gen. That seems weird to me from the
standpoint of mass manufacturing. You always use your crank signal (not
cam) to trigger the spark and injectors. The cam sensor is usually just a
"cylinder #1 end-of-exhaust-strike TDC sensor" and nothing more. On
Chrysler cars it can be +/- 20 degrees off and the car will still run
normally. Did they have a bad crank sensor design back then that they could
not rely on??? Mitsu must have had some weird reason that made them do it
that way.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:34:48 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
They were (I believe) trying to get ready for OBD-2... As the '94-'95
ECU's have almost all the sensors of the OBD-2 system, but with a mind like the
'91-'93 ECU...
- -Cody
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Matthews
> Sent:
Saturday, April 26, 2003 12:11 PM
>
> Why did Mitsu change the ECU
in '94?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:39:09 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Cam/crank sensors 1st/2nd gens (Re: Data logger for Second Gen)
The Cam sensor (As used in DSM's also) is a nice, easy way to set
timing.... Hell it took me 5 minutes to set timing on my AWD Talon the other
day... It not only tells you the Cam position, but it also tells you crank
position. On DSM's it's actually called the Crank angle sensor, even
though it is mounted to the cam...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:22:35 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
Then why can't knock be monitored on a '94-'95 ECU like it can on a '91-'93
ECU? If the '94-'95 ECU doesn't report knock, then why? Was that
lead needed for another signal? And if Mitsu went to the trouble and
expense of modifying the '94-'95 ECU (to accommodate additional sensors, etc.),
then how will retrofitting a '93 ECU not have a significant impact? Are
there no benefits to the '94-'95 ECU?
- -Jim
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Saturday, April 26,
2003 11:35 PM
They were (I believe) trying to get ready for OBD-2... As the '94-'95
ECU's have almost all the sensors of the OBD-2 system, but with a mind like the
'91-'93 ECU...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:12:14 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Data logger for Second Gen
I believe, the '94-'95 has knock sensor built in (someone correct me if I'm
wrong), it's just a matter if the ECU gives up that info to a datalogger, or
maybe, more importantly, if someone knows how to extract that info from the
ECU. IMHO, the best ECU to get is a '93. (I am fortunate enough to have
this). It uses the crank sensor, which is more common, and it also only
uses minimal o2 sensors. It doesn't have checks to make sure the cat is
working or anything... Really, if I had a VR4, '94 or later, I would
definitely be looking for a way to get the '93 ECU in there.
As with DSM's, no one wants a '96+ turbo, unless they plan on swapping in a
'95 ECU. Also, anything later than '92 to '94 has the non-EEPROM ecu, and
most will swap in a '90-'91 ECU due to it's programmability.
- -Cody
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#140
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