Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, March 23
2003 Volume 02 : Number
111
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 07:18:56 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Peeling headlights
on 3/21/03 11:47, Gross, Erik at
erik.gross@intel.com
scribbled:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, Paul, but I think you're
referring to the topmost
> layer peeling off of the Lexan ('95-'98)
headlights, not the fogging and
> discoloration associated with the '94
glass headlights. Removing the cover
> from the lights and cleaning
them won't do anything for the outer surface
> peeling...
>
>
Roger Ludwig had the same problem as Paul on his '95 VR-4 and fixed it
with
> some kind of polishing kit. It didn't seem all that hard, and
the results
> were great. I don't have his website handy, but I'm
sure he could point you
> to it.
>
> Roger, you out
there?
Yes Erik, that was the peeling I was referring to, not the
fogging. Thanks
for clarifying this for me.
- --
Paul/.
95
black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and
prudent
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 07:22:37
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 4-6 Feet of snow in Colorado
on 3/21/03 23:04, Donald Ashby at
dashbyiii@earthlink.net
scribbled:
> Oh yea, rear passenger side was about 2 1/2 feet off the
ground, best thing
> was absolutly nothing
> was damaged on the car,
my active aero still works too. Basically what
> happened was I was trying
to
> pull up the driveway, had the wheel turned all the way to the right,
and
> floored it, and suddenly I
> was sliding to my left, which was
not a good thing since I ran out of road on
> my left. Anyway I
took
> a lot of pictures. Just finished getting the car out today (Picture
was taken
> on Tuesday), took 3
> days of shoveling to get to the
end of my driveway so I could get wedge the
> car out of that
hole.
> Ended up with a sunburn and a scratch on my front
fendor.
Great shot. Ugly to see one of our babies in that position but
glad the
damage was minimal.
As always, judicious throttle control is
crucial...
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR
aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:16:07
-0500
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that could be adapted to transfer
case
I currently have my transfer case out of my car and I want to
install a low oil level sending unit on it.
The idea is to have a
warning if my transfer case ever leaks. I
figure this is one warning
that could actually prevent an accident.
I have personally watched 2
transfer cases seize on other peoples
cars, Zach lost his at NG02 at
the auto-cross half way into a
parking space and Jeremy Gleason’s car
burned up on the highway in
front of me, Luckily Zach was barely moving and
Jeremy’s transfer
case didn’t seize completely and he was able to get of the
freeway
w/o an accident. But it makes me nervous enough to install a
low
oil level indicator in the transfer case. I could just install a
temperature gauge in the very bottom but if the oils drains out the
temperature gauge will not feel the heat until the gears get REALLY
hot,
probably soon enough to stop an accident but I bet gear damage
would already
be done.
The problem is that the transfer case has very little clearance
from
the case walls to the gears. I have found some sensors but they
all
go too deep into the case. I have noticed that several cars come
with low oil level (not pressure) warnings lights. I am looking for
an inexpensive system that I could adapt form another vehicle. Most
of the sensors I have found are small heated coils. The oil cools
the
coils and the resistance is measured across the coils. If the
sensor
is no longer immersed in oil it heats up the resistance gets
higher and the
small computer sends a signal to a dash light. Neat
but a little
complicated to adapt to our cars.
Searching the internet I keep
finding sensors on 2-cycle boats and
snowmobiles but I bet these are fairly
large since 2-cyle engines
burn oil by design and need a good reserve of oil
if they are not
using mixed oil and gas. Anyone got a snowmobilr
or outboard motor
that could take a look at this?
Some of the sensors
I have found that are not quite what I want yet.
Here is a sensor used in
92-96 GM products so it is probably cheap
but it is very deep
http://www.borgwarnerbrand.com/images/thumbs/FLS106.gifhttp://www.borgwarnerbrand.com/flashhtml/relays/S8112.htmlHere
is webpage about adding low oil level to a snowmobiles, but no
pictures
http://www.off-road.com/snowmobile/project/indy/oilWarn.htmlHere
is a website that has some interesting sensors but no prices
http://www.diltronic.com/thermist.htmAny
other ideas on a good system that could be adapted to the
transfer
case?
John Monnin
1991 VR-4
http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:34:08
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that could be adapted to transfer
case
Good idea. Sorry I do not have more sensor ideas, but I wanted to
tell you
that you also need to plan how to read that sensor correctly. The
transfer
case is very compact, and I imagine all the oil gets splashed
around once
the car starts moving. A traditional float will not know what to
do, so you
might want to set it up to give you a reading only when the car
is standing
still.
Philip
At 11:16 AM 3/22/2003, John Monnin
wrote:
>I currently have my transfer case out of my car and I want
to
>install a low oil level sending unit on it.
>The idea is
to have a warning if my transfer case ever leaks. I
>figure this is
one warning that could actually prevent an accident.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:06:49
-0500
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that could beadapted to
transfer case
Thanks Phillip:
Somehow I knew this thread would get
your attention.
I agree a float type sensor will probably not work unless
a transfer
case was modified to have an additional sump. A separate
reservoir
attached by hard lines to the oil drain hole in the bottom of the
case and to the fill hole in the side would create additional volume
of
oil and provide a calm environment for a float level sensor. I
don’t
like this idea because more connections just mean more
locations to leak
from and I have to find room to put a reservoir at
the same level as the
transfer case.
Some of the sensors I have seen are pressure transducers,
the
pressure is created by the weight of the oil above the transducer.
The oil level can still be above the transducer but low enough to
lower
the pressure and trigger and alarm. Using a sensor of this
type I
could drill out he center of the lower drain plug and make a
kit that anyone
could install with transfer case still on the car.
The problem with this
is the shallower the oil level , like in our
transfer case, the more
sensitive the transducer has to be and the
more prone to failure it will
be.
Again a temperature sensor might be the easiest, except that I
would really like to destroy a transfer case to determine the
correct
temperature to trigger a warning. OR I could get a
volunteer to
measure temperatures while driving in Death Valley. If
you ever get
your oil hotter than driving up steep grades in Death
Valley you definitely
have a problem.
Anyone live near Death Valley who wants to be a guinea
pig?
John Monnin
Original messge below
>Good idea. Sorry
I do not have more sensor ideas, but I wanted to
>tell you that you also
need to plan how to read that sensor
>correctly. The transfer case is
very compact, and I imagine all
>the oil gets splashed around once the
car starts moving. A
>traditional float will not know what to do, so you
>might want to set it up to give you a reading only when the car is
>standing still.
>Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:22:44
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that could beadapted to
transfer case
>>the oil gets splashed around once the car starts
moving. A
>>traditional float will not know what to do, so you
>>might want to set it up to give you a reading only when the car is
>>standing still.
>
We don't try to check oil level while the
engine is running, so why try to check fluid levels while the car is
moving?
Be nice to have a really simple capacitive or conductive sensor
that fires when it does not see any liquid, and illuminates a warning light.
That way, when you get into the car after it's been sitting and turn on the key,
the alarm will sound if the fluid is low.
If you came up with something
really cheap and simple to install (something that just goes through the fill
nut or top filler cap for example) we could put such sensors everywhere: on the
power steering, oil sump, Xfer case, tranny, radiator, rear diff, brake and
clutch reservoirs, etc. Maybe all you'd need is a single electronic box to read
all the sensors on startup, sound the alarm, and indicate which sensor went
off.
Of course, if any container did go empty while the car was moving,
the sensor would fire. So, it would serve an information function when the car
was off (yer fluid is low) and an impending disaster function on the road (yer
radiator is empty! Better pull over before it blows up!)
I bet you could
sell zillions of the things.
Rich/slow old poop>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:55:05
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that could beadapted
to transfer case
At 03:06 PM 3/22/2003, John Monnin wrote:
>Somehow
I knew this thread would get your attention.
:-)
>A separate
reservoir
>attached by hard lines to the oil drain hole in the bottom of
the
>case and to the fill hole in the side would create additional
volume
>of oil and provide a calm environment for a float level
sensor.
I think this the best, cheapest, and easiest to install idea,
which, as
Rich said, has a commercial potential. However, even with a remote
reservoir oil level will still have to be measured only at standstill. With
such a compact transfer case the oil will likely be sucked out of (or less
likely pushed into) the remote reservoir while the vehicle is
moving.
To check oil level only at a standstill, a cheap little circuit
could be
engineered by some of the geeks here. If there is no frequency
generated by
the vehicle speed sensor, then after about 2-3 seconds the
system will
check the oil level and blink the light if oil is not there. A
simpler
version could be made to check oil level when the key is in the
ignition
but the engine is not running. To detect such a condition an
electrical
wire could be tapped into something simple as the oil pressure
switch that
is locates on the rear bank (not to be confused with the oil
pressure
sensor), or into one of the lights on the dash that come on for
several
seconds after you start the engine.
Philip
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:47:09
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Why not two level sensors?
It occurs to me that if we are
dealing with conductive fluids, then the simplest sensor is a continuity device
that just applies a little power and checks to see if the circuit goes to ground
through the fluid; e.g., if fluid is present at the sensor, it completes the
circuit to ground. Don't get much simpler than that, eh?
In fact, it
could probably be done via a solid state multiplexer that applies voltage to
each sensor in turn, so one multiplexer could drive, say, 32 or 64 level
sensors.*
So, why not have TWO sensors in each container? One, at the
fill line, says the fluid is low; and one, near the bottom, says it is EMPTY.
Perhaps the best place for the bottom sensor would be in the drain plug of the
sump or container, sticking up an inch or so.
Whilst the engine is
running or the car is moving, the top sensors probably would not function very
well, what with all the fluid moving around, but I bet the bottom sensor would
remain covered with fluid at all times. If any bottom sensor did get uncovered,
it would indicate a catastrophic loss of fluid. So, when the car is running, the
multiplexer would continue to check all sensors periodically, but the circuit
would only light alarms on bottom sensor failures.
Seems to me that if
you had such a sensor, and it went off while you were driving down the road,
thus giving you enough time to shut everything down safely, it would pay for
itself 100 or 1000 times over.
A racer pulling 1 g through a
banked turn might get a teensy bit worried if the bottom oil sensor kept getting
uncovered in, say, the middle of turn 3 at Texas World Speedway. Might be time
to invest in some baffles.
Shoot, I'd pay a buck or two for a sensor
system like that.
Rich/slow old poop/grounded in fantasy
*Yes, I
know, a single multiplexer might take a few seconds to test each circuit, so
it'd delay you taking off in the mornings. But that could be kinda neat, too. It
could flash through a series of displays that say something like, Oil OK, Xfer
case level OK, Rdiff OK, and so on. My wife's Aurora does something like that
when you ask the little computer to run a diagnostic. It's reassuring.
Or maybe the mux could apply 12 Volts to every sensor at once upon
ignition key insertion, so they would all warm up at once, and then rip
through a sequential check on each sensor individually in a second or so. I'm
sure the electronic wizards out there have a solution.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:56:09
-0700
From: "Jim Floyd" <
jim_floyd7@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor that
could beadapted to transfer case
When can we get one ? :
)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Philip V. Glazatov
Sent:
Saturday, March 22, 2003 2:55 PM
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Looking for low oil LEVEL sensor
that could
beadapted to transfer case
At 03:06 PM 3/22/2003, John Monnin
wrote:
>Somehow I knew this thread would get your
attention.
:-)
>A separate reservoir
>attached by hard
lines to the oil drain hole in the bottom of the
>case and to the fill
hole in the side would create additional volume
>of oil and provide a calm
environment for a float level sensor.
I think this the best, cheapest,
and easiest to install idea, which, as
Rich said, has a commercial potential.
However, even with a remote
reservoir oil level will still have to be
measured only at standstill. With
such a compact transfer case the oil will
likely be sucked out of (or less
likely pushed into) the remote reservoir
while the vehicle is moving.
To check oil level only at a standstill, a
cheap little circuit could be
engineered by some of the geeks here. If there
is no frequency generated by
the vehicle speed sensor, then after about 2-3
seconds the system will
check the oil level and blink the light if oil is not
there. A simpler
version could be made to check oil level when the key is in
the ignition
but the engine is not running. To detect such a condition an
electrical
wire could be tapped into something simple as the oil pressure
switch that
is locates on the rear bank (not to be confused with the oil
pressure
sensor), or into one of the lights on the dash that come on for
several
seconds after you start the engine.
Philip
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 02:35:25
-0000
From: "MM3 Phillips, J" <
phillipsj@duluth.navy.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Factory Alarm
Is there a way to completely deactivate the factory
alarm system? The
factory one goes off every once in a while for no
apparent reason and I want
to install a viper alarm system when i get back.
Any input would be
appreciated.
Ryan Phillips - "Currently aboard the
USS Duluth (LPD-6) off the coast of
Iraq"
91 Black VR-4 - "Still back in
San Diego"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:17:59
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Factory Alarm
on 3/22/03 19:35, MM3 Phillips, J at
phillipsj@duluth.navy.mil
scribbled:
> Is there a way to completely deactivate the factory alarm
system? The
> factory one goes off every once in a while for no
apparent reason and I want
> to install a viper alarm system when i get
back. Any input would be
> appreciated.
Thanks for everything you
are doing for us!
Most likely, it is the switch under the hood near the
front right headlight
that just needs its base bent upwards a bit. Especially
if you have
installed a bra.
Just give that a try before scrapping it
for the Viper...
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F,
TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:35:31
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Stuttering at 4,500 rpm
While I originally thought that the
symptoms I was experiencing was spark
blowout, I'm questioning my initial
prognosis. I'm getting great fuel
mileage and my car runs fine with the
exception of a hesitation at around
4500rpm. Up to and above that, the car
pulls strong to redline. The
hesitation is only under WOT.
So if this
is indeed not spark blowout (all factory as far as boost), what
other things
should I be looking at? Weak ignition wire contact or bad wire?
Weak coils?
Bad plug/plugs?
I do not experience on a daily basis. Yesterday I had the
opportunity to go
for several high speed runs (>130mph) where I did feel
the hesitation under
WOT in 3rd and 4th while getting up to
speed.
This was not noticeable immediately after I replaced all spark
plugs and
installed new ignition wires but seemed to have become an issue
after having
my 120K maintenance (timing belt, water pump, fuel filter,
etc.). Would a
timing issue display this symptom? I would think that my
mileage would be
suffering and that I would see this symptom at other rpm
levels if this was
the case.
TIA.
- --
Paul/.
95 black
3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and
prudent
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#111
***************************************
