Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, March 18
2003 Volume 02 : Number 107
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:59:04 -0500
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: General question
So do you think they calculated the service price in when they designed
it?
Joseph
93 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Woll
Sent: Monday, March
17, 2003 7:37 PM
Yeah - and for the average guy in 3s car they costs 1000 to change when my
BMW costs zero and my Subaru costs 200. Its design technology like this
that makes simple things expensive. I can really feel the weight difference. Yep
- about a pound for the belt. and, Yep - about 2 pounds for the chain. Wow, that
ought to make a big difference. Sorry for the sarcasm. I just plain hate timing
belts.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:12:23 -0500
From: bob atkins <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
Thanks for the reply Dan - but neither site shows a digital boost gauge
available.
I am still looking and hoping someone on the list can recall the source of
this gauge.
Thanks in advance
Badbob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:12:37 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Eibachs and Sunroofs
Sorry if I'm re-hashing a stale subject but someone on eBay wants to know
why my Eibach Pro-Kit is not recommended for sunroof cars. Has this little
mystery ever been solved?
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:16:23 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
Here's a slick combination electronic boost controller and digital boost
gauge that I just found. It's in a standard gauge shape, so you could put
it in a pillar pod! The Autospeed.com site that it's listed on is the best
automotive site/magazine I've found on the internet. If they're selling
it, it's probably a good unit.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:29:25 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Boost/Boost controller question
If you want gauges take a look at this link --- it was posted a month or so
ago and looks like a great system. I like the idea of daisychained gauges and/or
a central display.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:48:14 -0500
From: bob atkins <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
That's the one!!!!!
I've spent a few hours searching - thanks for ending
my misery
Badbob
> If you want gauges take a look at this link --- it was posted a
month
> or so ago and looks like a great system. I like the idea of
> daisychained gauges and/or a central display.
>
>
http://www.defi-shop.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:03:39 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
I just finished installing the Defi Display Unit this past weekend and,
IMHO, it's the coolest thing since the AEM EMS :-) It will display
everything except boost (EGT, OP, FP, WT, OT, Vehicle Speed), two items at a
time. It has metric or standard units, and displays real-time digital
values. It will work with or in the absence of separate gauge units.
It has a warm-up feature that virtually eliminates the need for a separate water
temp gauge. It has a "special display mode" that kicks in when the vehicle
speed has been 0 for more than 10 seconds - this mode scrolls through all 6
parameters and displays peak values since you last started the car or reset
them. It also has all the warning light/buzzer and record/playback
features that the standalone gauges have, too.
Side note: This weekend, the peak hold on the vehicle speed was very useful
for the slalom drills at a school I attended - the drill stations were untimed,
but with the peak speed reading, I could see if I was improving. I thought
the peak speed was a little ricey, but I was pleasantly shown to be wrong
:-)
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:10:37 -0500
From: bob atkins <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
I could have sworn that they had a nice little digital boost gauge on the
site as well (from the post a few weeks ago). It may be the HUD one though
that I am recalling - What kind of prices are these guys asking and who did you
find as a source stateside?
Thanks
Badbob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:18:55 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
Bob wrote:
> I could have sworn that they had a nice little digital
boost gauge on
> the site as well (from the post a few weeks ago). It may
be the HUD
> one though that I am recalling
Yeah, the HUD is digital. I have that, too, and it's really nice to
be able to read boost without taking your eyes off of the road. Kind a
gimmicky and not at all a "necessary" item, but since it combines a boost gauge
and a turbo timer (and I wanted to get a TT anyway), it's a pretty good deal.
IIRC, it was just over $200 when I bought it last year.
Bob wrote:
> What kind of prices are these guys asking and who
did
> you find as a source stateside?
I got the display unit for a little under $300 and I got the gauges as part
of a package deal.
I've dealt with:
www.gruppe-s.com (generally pleased with
them, although they owe me a $15 cable and I'm having to chase that down and am
a little
frustrated) and
www.mvpmotorsports (Dusty is awesome and
I'd recommend
them to anyone as I've always gotten prompt, courteous
responses and fast shipping).
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:28:37 -0600
From: "Dan Hyde" <
danielhyde@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
I've been eye-balling this setup myself ever since Eric surfaced
these some months ago.
Apexi also is providing a daisy-chain type setup too. And they have
Boost This is a supplier that has a good web show on these meters.
I haven't decided yet...
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "bob atkins" <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
<snip> What
kind of prices are these guys asking and who did you find as a source stateside?
<snip>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:53:57 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Boost/Boost controller question
I thought you could just get the sensors, controller and digital display
but looking at the site it looks like I need the gauge also. Can you set upper
and lower limits for the warning feature ???
Can you shed any light on that issue.
Jim Berry
PS: I saw reference to a boost gauge !!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:14:01 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
> I thought you could just get the sensors,
> controller and
digital display but
> looking at the site it looks like I need
> the
gauge also.
Your thought was right - you can buy just the control unit, the display
unit, and any/all of the sensors and it'll work just fine. For some silly
reason, the display unit doesn't have boost as one of its display options, so
you need to have either the HUD or a separate gauge for that.
> Can you set upper and lower limits for the
> warning feature
???
Yes, you can set warning limits for any/all sensors with the display unit,
even if you have no gauge units installed. You can even set a boost
warning (it'll beep at ya) with the display unit, even though it can't display
the boost reading. That's gotta be the marketing department involved in
the decision not to allow the display unit to display boost... Oh, and WT,
OT, EGT, Boost, and Tach all have "high" warning limits. FP and OP have
"low" warning limits.
As a side note, if you have both the boost pressure and fuel pressure
sensors hooked up, you can have the display unit (or the round gauge) display
DIFFERENTIAL fuel pressure, which is sweet. Just set the warning to 3.0bar
and call it good.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:12:18 -0600
From: "Steve" <
denon11@insightbb.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Service Manuals
Check out this link if any of you are needing a
backup of the service
manuals.
Years covered 1991-1996.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:14:02 -0600
From: "Steve" <
denon11@insightbb.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003
9:12 PM
Check out this link if any of you are needing a
backup of the service
manuals.
Years covered 1991-1996.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:02:42 -0600
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Service Manuals
> Check out this link if any of you are needing a
> backup of the
service manuals.
> Years covered 1991-1996.
I see yet another person appears to have ripped off Vineet's excellent
service manuals on CD.
The "real deal" from the guy who originally converted all the manuals to
PDF are available here:
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:24 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Boost/Boost controller question
Bob,
As for digital vs. analog it is a personal preference and maybe more
non-technical than anything. Usually, when the gauges are being used at
their maximum (drag strip, road course, street driving, etc.) you don't have
time to look at a gauge and analyze what it is displaying.
The two-color Keyence is great,
http://www.keyence.com/sensors/ap30.htm#2.
At night you don't even need to see the number but just catch the color out of
the corner of your eye. Red means over the set boost and green means under
(you can set it at whatever number you like). This is what I liked about
it.
However, I opted for analog gauges since on a road course you get one
chance to glance at all the gauges (currently only 5) while glancing next in the
mirrors for other cars, then looking at the corner workers, listening to your
instructor, etc. If a quick glance of the gauges shows them all at the 3
o'clock position (on the stock gauges) then everything is normal. You
don't care really what gauge or what reading it is but when one of them is at
the 1 o'clock position then you back off and evaluate the gauge (if it is oil
pressure then sure, high boost makes higher pressure so that is okay but 0 psi
is bad). You get the idea.
I'm orienting my gauges to have 12 o'clock as the normal operating position
and have done this on the two I've installed (boost and water temp) and will
correct the others when I replace them (oil pressure, etc.). But I think
it is more a preference. Also, some features on analog are different than
digital (max or replay features) so it just depends on the look you want and the
features you can afford.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: bob atkins
Sent: Sunday, March 16,
2003 22:39
[snip]
2) Anyone want to weigh in on opinions of digital vs. traditional
round analog?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:36:27 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Eibachs and Sunroofs
Dave,
AFAIK the Spyder and cars with a power sunroof have a
different spring perch in the rear and a set of Ground Control coilovers from an
ECS-equipped car which is the same thing as saying a manual-sunroof car will not
fit a power-sunroof car. It just won't happen. Some people say it
will but those people ended up cutting off a turn or two and I don't care for
that. If there is a solution that is different then this then I've either
missed it or it hasn't been mentioned very much.
- --Flash!
1995-1/2 VR-4 (screwed not only because it is not able to be
logged but I can't buy the simple and cheap suspension mods like Ground Control
because of the blasted power sunroof)
- -----Original Message-----
From: bdtrent
Sent: Monday, March 17,
2003 20:13
Sorry if I'm re-hashing a stale subject but someone on eBay wants to know
why my Eibach Pro-Kit is not recommended for sunroof cars. Has this little
mystery ever been solved?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:52:03 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Boost/Boost controller question
I don't see pricing on just the sensors --- what am I missing here
???
Jim
Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
> > I thought you could just get the sensors,
> > controller
and digital
> Your thought was right - you can buy just the control unit, the
> display unit, and any/all of the sensors and it'll work just
fine.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:45:32 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Eibachs and Sunroofs
The sunroof already squeaks in hard corners with the stock suspension and
it's even worse when you install stiffer springs. That's why it is not
recommended to use them on our cars that do not have a full roof. You can
get the GC's with stock spring rate what should not cause a difference in
the ride quality although the shocks are not working in the same range and
makes the suspension somewhat stiffer.
At 20:12 17.03.2003 -0500, bdtrent wrote:
>Sorry if I'm re-hashing a
stale subject but someone on eBay wants to
>know why my Eibach Pro-Kit is
not recommended for sunroof cars. Has
>this little mystery ever
been solved?
>
>Regards,
>DaveT/92TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 05:04:43 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Subject: Re: Team3S: Head gasket Qs
Hi Rich,
I have several new pressure caps and thermostats as
spares.
If Iowa has some sort of state emissions testing, have
your tuner stick
the probe near the overflow tank
opening while it is bubbling.
The bubbles are most likely products of combustion.
Meaning your head
gasket is leaking. The emissions
probe will indicate hydrocarbons, CO
etc.
Sorry to say 'been there done that'. My overheating
started
at Road Atlanta11/98. Did it at Carolina
MotorSports Park10/99. And at
Putnam5/00 I could only
do about 3 laps before the temp went wild. I
tried
driving it home by filling my gas cans with water so I
could cool it
down every few miles. I wound up
renting a U-Haul truck and trailer in
Champaign IL.
Although I drove it up onto the trailer, by the time I
got it back to
PGH, the Stealth wouldn't start.
After an extensive rebuild, my engine is still in
pieces in my garage
waiting for me to put it back
together.
Be of good cheer,
John
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:04:50 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: General question
No problem, Andy. But with three cars (a BMW, Subaru, and a 3S), I
hardly think you're an "average" guy in a 3s car.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Woll
[mailto:awoll1@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:37 PM
Yeah - and for the average guy in 3s car they costs 1000 to change when my
BMW costs zero and my Subaru costs 200. Its design technology like this
that makes simple things expensive. I can really feel the weight
difference.
Yep - about a pound for the belt. and, Yep - about 2 pounds for the
chain.
Wow, that ought to make a big difference. Sorry for the sarcasm. I just
plain hate timing belts.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Sent: Monday,
March 17, 2003 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: General question
> Several reasons, with weight being one of them. They are
quieter,
> cheaper, you don't have to lube them, they can simplify many
otherwise
> complex engine designs and can be used to drive multiple
components.
------------------------------
>Sorry to say 'been there done that'. My
overheating
>started at Road Atlanta11/98. Did it at
Carolina
>MotorSports Park10/99. And at Putnam5/00 I could only
>do
about 3 laps before the temp went wild.
My overheating started four years ago, when I still used 2nd gear a lot.
When I graduated to higher gears, it went away. It came back when I started
pulling high boost in higher gears. If keep the boost down to normal levels, I
am usually OK. If I run 14 psi, the temp creeps up.
It is really weird that
you are having problems, cuz you have a 1st gen car -- usually, it's the 2nd gen
cars that overheat on track.
Rich
------------------------------
"the filter is $19.48 (plus tax if you live in Texas since that is where my
orders have shipped from)"
Sorry to change the topic but HOLY COW, I just called Dodge in
Toronto
(Canada) and they're charging $145.00 for this part. I'd better
start ordering parts from the States.
Mike
------------------------------
I'm not sure you should get blowout at stock boost. We never saw it
until we increased boost to 14.7 on two of our VR4's. You may have another
problem, like dirty injectors, fouled spark plugs, or failing ignition
coils.
How old are the plugs? They tend to gap out with age. I'd pull
the front three and measure the gap to get an idea of their condition.
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
[mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:41 PM
That is what I thought. How come all the reference materials for our cars
list the stock gap at .044?
I need to regap as I am getting spark blowout under WOT between 4500 and
5000rpm with stock boost.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
> 0.034 much better for 15 psi boost=no spark blowout
> 0.044
seems way too wide.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:38:24 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil filters and plug gap
They were brand new Bosch plugs that I installed last year along with new
ignition wires. Everything else runs just fine and the only time I have noticed
it was when I was romping on it really hard. It does seem to be repeatable and
only in that rpm range.
I intend to pull the plugs this summer and inspect them. I'll probably
replace with something other than Bosch. I do no that they were originally
gapped at .044, which seemed awfully wide IMOHO. I suppose I could reinstall the
old ignition wires to see if the new ones are the cause. Fuel mileage is nice
though as I was getting 28 and 29mpg on a 6,000 mile road trip back in
January.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
> I'm not sure you should get blowout at stock boost. We never saw
it
> until we increased boost to 14.7 on two of our VR4's. You may
have
> another problem, like dirty injectors, fouled spark plugs, or
failing
> ignition coils.
>
> How old are the plugs?
They tend to gap out with age. I'd pull the
> front three and
measure the gap to get an idea of their condition.
------------------------------
We generally get mileage in the twenties on the road, but don't think I've
seen 28 or 29 mpg - sounds a bit lean to me.
I presently have some problems in the 2000-3000 rpm range on my
'93VR4. Everything is wonderful above 3000rpm. I am going to pull
the front plugs this evening for a look-see. I am also suspicious of the
old ignition coils. A lot of people have replaced these because they seem
to age also.
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
[mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:38 AM
They were brand new Bosch plugs that I installed last year along with new
ignition wires. Everything else runs just fine and the only time I have noticed
it was when I was romping on it really hard. It does seem to be repeatable and
only in that rpm range.
I intend to pull the plugs this summer and inspect them. I'll probably
replace with something other than Bosch. I do no that they were originally
gapped at .044, which seemed awfully wide IMOHO. I suppose I could reinstall the
old ignition wires to see if the new ones are the cause. Fuel mileage is nice
though as I was getting 28 and 29mpg on a 6,000 mile road trip back in
January.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:58:45 -0800
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Cleaning K&N FIPK filter
I put on the K&N FIPK filter about a year ago. I have accumulated about
4000 miles since then and have yet to clean and recharge the filter. I'm
wondering what kind of schedule others use for cleaning. The Team3S FAQ
page seems to imply that they work better as they accumulate some dirt. I'm
thinking that may be true for filtering smaller and smaller particles.
However, it would seem to let less air pass. Before I jump in and clean
mine I thought I solicit some advice from other K&N FIPK users.
Thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
On the three VR4's we have that have high flow intake filters, two of which
are K&N products, for the last 5 years we have generally cleaned and
recharged the filters every time we change the engine oil. That probably
works out to every 3000 miles for road use. I change oil more frequently when
the car is being used for driving on the track. I <ALWAYS> get beat
up by others on the list on the frequency of oil changes, but I found no one
willing to pay the shipping to get all that "clean oil" I am throwing away with
every oil change.
I think you can determine if the K&N filter needs cleaning by visual
inspection. Take off the filter and hold it up to the light. If you can
see daylight through the filter, it needs more oil - you may as well clean
it. If you can see a lot of block air passages - black instead of
translucent pink - clean it.
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Gerhard
[mailto:gerhard1@llnl.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:59 AM
I put on the K&N FIPK filter about a year ago. I have accumulated about
4000 miles since then and have yet to clean and recharge the filter. I'm
wondering what kind of schedule others use for cleaning. The Team3S FAQ
page seems to imply that they work better as they accumulate some dirt. I'm
thinking that may be true for filtering smaller and smaller particles.
However, it would seem to let less air pass. Before I jump in and clean
mine I thought I solicit some advice from other K&N FIPK users.
Thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:24:24 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Eibachs and Sunroofs
Roger G. wrote:
> The sunroof already squeaks in hard corners with
the stock
> suspension and it's even worse when you install
stiffer
> springs. That's why it is not recommended to use them on
>
our cars that do not have a full roof.
To add in my 2hp here: that's not been my experience... I've
taken both of my VR-4s (glass, removable roofs) to autocross and track events
and never once heard a squeak from the sunroof. Even on crappy western-WA
roads, it doesn't squeak. That goes for both with completely stock
suspension and with Saner F&R sway bars and TEC F&R strut tower
braces. Also tried it with no rear strut brace, but all the other
bars/braces installed. No squeaks. Ever.
Now, with the sunroof OPEN (up), the rear is only supported in the middle
by the lifting mechanism and then I've heard a rattle or two every once in a
while on rough roads, but nothing terrible. Is that what you were
referring to? Or did you mean with the roof closed?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:29:00 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Boost/Boost controller question
Jim wrote:
> I don't see pricing on just the sensors
> --- what
am I missing here ???
You gotta ask for the prices of the sensors separately - they're generally
special-order. IIRC, I was quoted a little under $700 for the control unit
and all the sensors, shipped.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:40:55 -0800
From: "Edward Vinces" <
ed@compros.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Cleaning K&N FIPK filter
I am glad you are discussing this issue because I have never been sure how
to properly clean mine; I could not find any tips on this issue on the 3S
pages.
Is there a description someplace on how to do it properly, and specially
how to oil the K&N' filters? Thank you, Ed
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:29:57 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Cleaning K&N FIPK filter
There are very complete instructions included with each filter recharge
kit.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:50:59 -0500
From: "Arthurs Family" <
arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Long Block Engine
Greetings,
The engine knock I asked you folks about a few weeks ago is now diagnosed
as rod bearing(s). With spring about to start in 4 days, I don't want to
be
rebuilding this engine all summer. Does anyone have a
suggestion where to
go for a QUALITY rebuilt LONG block for a '92 Twin
Turbo in the northeast?
Thank you for any & all suggestions.
Jon Arthurs
Jamestown, NY
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#107
***************************************