Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth    Tuesday, March 11 2003    Volume 02 : Number 101
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:12:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake Job help
 
If you have air in there, yes, if not..no.  Once most cars hit 35mph, the ABS pumps cycle after startup..thats the most you'd have to do.
 
If you didn't allow air in there, you wont have an issue.
 
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Labonte, Dan wrote:
 
> Is it true that the car needs to be running while bleeding the brakes
> due to the ABS system?  It took me about 20min to do all four with the
> Speed Bleeder (not including install of new bleeders).
>
> Dan Labonte
 
- ---
Where do you buy YOUR brakes from?
orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:55:16 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dodge stealth 92-  Errors in ECU Memory
 
The service manual notes that error codes (diagnosis memory) are erased from the ECU when backup power is removed from the ECU for 10 seconds or more. There are 3 ways to do this.
 
- - remove one or both cables from the main battery
- - remove fuse #19 from the multi-purpose fuse (by the drivers left leg)
- - disconnect the harness from the ECU (may not be a good idea if the main battery is still connected)
 
As mentioned, the diagnosis memory can also be erased using the MUT to send the "malfunction code erase signal" or by placing the ECU in Diagnosis Mode 2 and then disconnecting the MUT.
 
Service manuals for all Dodge Stealths are available from the source below (in the USA).
 
Daimler-Chrysler Publications
800-890-4038 M-F 8a-8p EST
$59: '91-'95 Stealth Service Manuals
$90: 1996 Stealth Service Manual
$12: 1991 Stealth Body Repair Manual
$10: '91-'96 Owner's Manuals
 
Also, you do not need a MUT to read the error codes in the 1992 Stealth. The service manual explains how to use an analog voltmeter to read the codes.
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bureau d'Etudes et Conseils Techniques Dr.Ing. R e n a t o F R A N Z E L L I N" <franzellin@monaco377.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:29 PM
 
Through the Diagnostic Connector the Mitsu dealer connects the MUT   (multi
utility terminal) and reads if eventual electronic errors happened and then he resets them.
 
If we do not have a MUT is there a system to eliminate-reset the resident errors ?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:12:24 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Factory Alarm Randomly Activating?
 
Posting for a friend who's not on the list:
 
The car is a '94 VR-4.  Quite often, the alarm goes off for no apparent reason - no doors have been opened and the trunk is latched. 
 
The only thing my friend can think of is that the problems started soon after he poured a little water/baking soda solution on the positive terminal of the battery to clean up some acid buildup.  I don't know of any alarm components in that area, so I'm not sure the alarm problems are associated with the battery cleanup.
 
Ideas or things to check, other than the door and trunk switches?  Common causes?
 
Thanks,
- -Erik
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:18:31 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Factory Alarm Randomly Activating?
 
I had a similar problem with my 93 when I first got it --- turned out to be the hood switch. It's located at the right front of the hood and I just bent the bracket up slightly to get better contact with the hood. I'm sure a bad contact on a door switch could do the same thing.
 
        Jim Berry
========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
 
> Posting for a friend who's not on the list:
>
> The car is a '94 VR-4.  Quite often, the alarm goes off for no
> apparent reason - no doors have been opened and the trunk is latched.
>
> Ideas or things to check, other than the door and trunk switches?
> Common causes?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:48:02 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
 
The 35 mph number is for the AWS, it kicks in at 35 mph. I'm not sure if and when the ABS pump runs and I'm too lazy to look, BUT, I think it runs anytime the car is running.
 
        Jim Berry ==============================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
 
> If you have air in there, yes, if not..no.  Once most cars hit 35mph,
> the ABS pumps cycle after startup..thats the most you'd have to do.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:51:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
 
Its pretty common in Bosch ABS systems to cycle at 35mph.
 
At least in the 1st and 2nd gen systems (not cars..bosch systems).
 
Its the only way to get air outta the pumps on Supras.
 
- ---
Where do you buy YOUR brakes from?
orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:06:08 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: AutoX School 03/16/2003 in Bremerton, WA, USA
 
Per list rules, please keep replies off list...
 
For anyone not on the local NWS3 list, there is an Autocross school this Sunday at Bremerton Raceway (off of SR16 in Bremerton, WA).  Looks like we're gonna have 8+ 3000GTs/Stealths there.  If you're interested, please e-mail me privately and I'll get you the details.  There will be mini-caravans from multiple places throughout the I-5 corridor, so if you want to get in on that, I'll get you in touch with whoever is in your specific area.
 
- --Erik
"back on the horse"
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:42:02 -0500
From: "Jim Fay" <jfay@tssu.com>
Subject: Team3S:
 
The antilock brake pump only runs when the antilock system is required during braking.  It also does a self check by running for a second or two the first time the car moves above 3 mph in forward or reverse after the car is started.  I can see no reason to have the car running during a bleeding or changing of the fluid.  The book does indicate the car should be running, but I have changed my fluid yearly and have never had the car running and never had problems with air or the antilock system after changing fluid.
 
Jim
91 RTTT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:18:27 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
 
As Geoff said, it may have to do with purging any air from the ABS unit. If you're just bleeding after a brake change or getting rid of old fluid it may not be an issue.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:42:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip V Glazatov <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
 
Not only do the ABS-equipped cars have to have the engine running when bleeding the brakes, but also some cars must have their ABS pump actually cycled with an OEM diagnostics tool to purge all the air out.
 
Last time I checked with a Mitsu dealer they never heard of that, so I assume cycling the pump is not required on Mitsubishis. But the manual says that the engine must be running while when bleeding the brakes.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:49:22 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: re: AWD tire rec's
 
This is a terrific link, showing what a moron does by downshifting to second gear before/during a high speed turnin.
 
It really doesn't have anything to do with putting new tires on the rear.
 
Chuck Willis
 
http://www.microworks.net/dave/viper.html
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:32:45 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
 
The reason for the engine running during bleeding is so the vacuum assist helps you push fluid through the ABS unit. Ever try to do it with the engine off? Major, major legwork.
 
Omar
92 r/t
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip V Glazatov
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:43 AM
 
Not only do the ABS-equipped cars have to have the engine running when bleeding the brakes, but also some cars must have their ABS pump actually cycled with an OEM diagnostics tool to purge all the air out.
 
Last time I checked with a Mitsu dealer they never heard of that, so I assume cycling the pump is not required on Mitsubishis. But the manual says that the engine must be running while when bleeding the brakes.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:16:07 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.
 
*** There are separate master cylinders, reservoirs, and boosters for the brake system and the clutch.  There is also a clutch slave cylinder that sometimes leaks hydraulic fluid. Yes, you can get air in the clutch system, and you can bleed it from/through the slave cylinder.  How is your transaxle fluid? When was the last time you drained and refilled it?
 
Chuck Willis
 
The owner's manual would seem
to indicate that both the clutch and brakes run from the same master cylinder.  Upon checking, I found the cap loose.
 
  Is it
possible that I have air in the system and this is affecting the clutch? How would I correct this?
 
94 R/T TT 6sp AWD, complete engine and turbo rebuild 4K miles (74K) ago.
 
Thanks, -ear
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:22:43 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: dodge stealth 92-  Errors in ECU Memory
 
You disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes and the errors disappear. When you reconnect the battery, the system executes self-diagnostics, if the error condition still exists, the error code is set again.
 
Chuck Willis
 
If we do not have a MUT is there a system to eliminate-reset the resident errors ?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:31:08 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake Job help
 
Flash,
 
That's not the bleeding sequence listed in my service manual. It's RR, LF, LR, then RF.
 
Up until last year, I did it with the engine off.  Only recently have I been doing it with the engine running, at your suggestion to get the ABS pump running.
 
Chuck Willis 
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:46 AM
 
I think the procedure is RR, RF, LR, LF (you want to finish at the corner closest to the ABS pump and on our car it is the RF).  Starting the car is recommended (manual says that I think) but someone else also mentioned that the ABS pump might not flush the fluid through itself unless the ABS is active.  I'm not sure if anyone ever clarified that one yet.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:01:10 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake Job help
 
Sorry - brain fade.  I was thinking opposite corners and listed it incorrectly.  Thanks, Chuck.  You can see it is messed up since the LF is not even the right corner where the ABS pump is.  Apologies but thanks for the catch.
 
- --Flash!
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:30:19 -0500
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: re: AWD tire rec's
 
Oh no! It was just an illustration that shows what happens when rear tires lose grip before the front ones do. Some aggressive drivers that they are such good drivers that they would catch the rear end as soon as it starts stepping out. But the fact is that most people do not even have time to turn the front wheels out when that starts happening. Sometimes it all happens so fast and unexpected!
 
Philip
 
> This is a terrific link, showing what a moron does by downshifting to
> second gear before/during a high speed turnin.
 
> It really doesn't have anything to do with putting new tires on the
> rear.
 
> Chuck Willis
 
> http://www.microworks.net/dave/viper.html
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:37:16 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: re: AWD tire rec's
 
Nevertheless, it is still a TERRIFIC link!
 
A stupid mistake is really not a complete failure if you can learn something from it.  In this case, lots of people get to learn from it.  The accident analysis was really very good!
 
Chuck Willis
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:50:30 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: results of transfer case recall X2
 
Just picked up my '93 VR4 from the dealer from the transfer case recall.  They replaced the seals on the transfer case.  Funny thing is that this was the one I paid $350 to have the seals replaced when I replaced the clutch about a year and a half ago.  I had been hoping they would say it was alright so I could get my $350 back from Mitsubishi!  Hack, I'm just glad to have a non-leaking transfer case.
 
The '94 VR4 (still covered under extended warranty) did not need the seals replaced.
 
Chuck Willis
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:28:04 -0600
From: "Patrick Purviance" <purdaddy@associatedsys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: results of transfer case recall X2
 
Once long ago, I had replaced the fuel rails on a '93 Chrysler Concorde that subsequently were recalled a month or so after I had paid almost $600 to have it done.  When the recall was issued, I contacted Chrysler and they said that because I had paid for the first, they would reimburse me.  And because the first would have been done with the same faulty parts, they'd do recall as well.  So I got my money back and got the recall done.
 
Not sure if this transfer case recall is on par since the parts may not be new designs, but it still may be worth your effort to give Mitsu a call and find out.
 
Good luck!
 
Patrick Purviance
'94 Stealth R/T TT, 59k miles, Open Air Intake, 1g DSM BOV, Blitz DATT Wichita, KS
 
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #101
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