Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, March 10
2003 Volume 02 : Number 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 12:11:44 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake Job help
Regular tools. The only problem that you will probably have is removing the
rotors because they rust onto the axles. Soak the rotors in your favorite
rust penetrator stuff - Liquid Wrench, WD40, etc. Do not spray behind the
rear rotors. You will not reach the axle by spraying there and will only
wet your parking brake brake shoes. Screwing bolts into the little threaded
holes on the face of the rotor does not work unless your car is brand new.
Hammering the rotors off bends or destroys them. I found a cool way to
remove them. I drive a chisel, like a wedge, between the rotor's back face
and one of the mounting ears for the brake caliper. For the front rotors
you may need to put some thick steel piece, like a big wrench, underneath
the chisel to make the wedge thicker, but the rear ones do not require
that. Just insert a chisel and yank a few times while rotating the
rotor.
Philip
At 03:12 AM 3/9/2003, Donald Ashby wrote:
>What all do I need in
order to change rotors and pads on my vr-4? Some
>sort of compression
device or a vice or what?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:30:39 -0800
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
> What all do I need in order to change rotors and pads on my vr-4? Some
> sort of compression device or a vice or what?
You will need all the standard tools to work on your car. In
addition:
You will need a C-clamp to compress the calipers before you change the
brake pads. Just a regular 6 inch C clamp that you can buy at any hardware
store will do. Be sure you take the cap off your brake master cylinder
before you try to compress the caliper.
My front rotors came off pretty easy. I just hit them with my 20 oz
rubber mallet and they popped right off. I haven't replace my rear rotors
so I can't tell you how they are done.
You will want some sort of wire or rope to suspend the brake caliper as you
are changing the rotor. You do not want the caliper to just dangle by the
brake line. That can damage the brake line.
While you are down there, it might be a good idea to flush your braking
system and put in all new brake fluid.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:59:02 -0500
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Replace your 1st gen ECU capacitors even if they look good
I know many of you do not follow 3si so I am posting this warning
here. I finally got around to replacing the capacitors in my 1st
gen VR-4 even though they looked fine and did not smell.
I found one capacitor was in fact leaking. Jeremy Gleason lives
nearby so I took his ECU apart and found the capacitors to be
leaking
worse than mine. We could definitely smell rotten fish once
the cover
was off.
See this thread on 3si for more pictures and details.
The only warning sign I every saw with my car running funny was that
the idle speed would sometimes drift around. I have not run my car
since the repair so I do not know if the ECU was the cause of that
problem. Jeremy Gleason's car had some funny idle problems too. It
has only been 1 day since repair so we don't know if the ECU was the
true problem yet, but his car runs fine today:)
John Monnin
91 VR-4 4-bolt main Conversion
Email me if you are
interested in 2003
3S National Gathering Road Course
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:57:34 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Replace your 1st gen ECU capacitors even if they look good
I had the smell when I first purchased my '92, in November of 2001. I
didn't have any idea what the smell was but from the 3Si forum was able to find
out about the ECU capacitor problem, and replaced them. I wasn't having any
problems before I replaced them but for $5 for the capacitors, I figured it was
cheap insurance.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:22:18 -0700
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Replace your 1st gen ECU capacitors even if they look good
I had my caps replaced and now my car won't start. I shipped it to
AVPRO and they found nothing wrong with it. I don't know what
happened.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Sent: Sunday,
March 09, 2003 1:57 PM
> I had the smell when I first purchased my '92, in November of 2001. I
> didn't have any idea what the smell was but from the 3Si forum was
> able to find out about the ECU capacitor problem, and replaced them. I
> wasn't having any problems before I replaced them but for $5 for the
> capacitors, I figured it was cheap insurance.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 21:15:52 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: I have a V-12!
Well... If I was building a no-thrills race car then I would have had a
single pipe or possibly even two pipes dumping exhaust behind the front
wheels shortly right after the turbos.
But what I have is a street car that goes open tracking once in a while.
The goal of the exhaust system is to quiet down the exhaust with a minimal
restriction. An exhaust cannot flow well and be quiet at the same time. One
pipe splitting and going to two mufflers is more restriction than one pipe
going straight into one huge muffler, but it is quieter.
Another hint that my car is not a race car is that I have a cat. I do not
enjoy driving next to stinky cars and I do not want my car to smell like
that either. But when I take my car to a track I can replace the cat with a
straight pipe and remove the inserts from the mufflers. That will give me a
decent race track exhaust.
One more reason that I have two mufflers is that one muffler looks bad on a
2nd gen Stealth. There is this empty cutout in the rear bumper on the right
side that begs to be filled. Other 3S cars do not look as bad with a single
muffler.
Pictures and a video should be posted within couple weeks.
Philip
At 01:36 AM 3/8/2003, Riyan Mynuddin wrote:
>Hehe I was hoping you'd
say that you actually dropped a v-12 in your
>stealth. Your setup sure
does sound much "cooler" than my
>straight-through ATR pipe courtesy of
Dynamic Racing. Now correct me if
>I'm wrong... I know that coolness and
tunability are factors (which I'm
>missing out on) but isn't a
straight-through design more free flowing
>and therefore higher hp?
Nevertheless, I'm anxious to see your pics.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:33:46 EST
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Thanks
to Cody @ Discount Tire
Just received some centering rings from Cody at Discount Tire Co. They are
replacements for rings that were close but a bit too tight on my Enkei
RP01s.
It is good to see a company that believes in service to the customer. Many
thanks Cody and Discount Tire!
Paul Klusman
91 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:37:48 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Thanks to Cody @ Discount Tire
Anytime...
Just wanted to keep a customer happy! Sorry it took so long, I had to
track down the correct ones from Enkei for a discontinued wheel, but they were
more than happy to find a set to ship me...
Thanks!
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSent: Sunday, March 09,
2003 9:34 PM
Just received some centering rings from Cody at Discount Tire Co. They are
replacements for rings that were close but a bit too tight on my Enkei
RP01s.
It is good to see a company that believes in service to the customer. Many
thanks Cody and Discount Tire!
Paul Klusman
91 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:42:36 -0600
From: "Dan Hyde" <
danielhyde@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Thanks to Cody @ Discount Tire
I have to ask...
What the heck is a centering ring?
Dan
97 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:04:22 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Thanks to Cody @ Discount Tire
Hub-centric ring. Aftermarket wheels have a larger hole in the middle
than the factory wheels. Most manufacturers offer plastic or aluminum
centering rings that take up the space between the center bore of the hub and
the center bore of the wheel. This makes sure that the wheel is mounted in
a hub-centric fashion, and guarantees it is concentric with the hub. If
hub-centric rings are not present and it is not an OE wheel, then the lug nuts
will center the wheel, however less accurately, and vibration problems can
persist.
Some aftermarket wheels are built as hub centric applications without using
these spacers, but usually you will find that more on light truck
applications. For instance a 5 lug newer Ford wheel which has a bolt
circle of 135 mm will almost always be hub centric due to the fact that the
newer Fords all have the same center bore diameter, and there is no other 5-135
application any of those wheels would work on...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:52:46 -0700
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
How long does flushing the brake fluid take, I understand the procedure,
but my dad is telling me hours, and a couple of my friends with newer then 60's
cars are telling me 30 minutes, what's an accurate time range?
BTW I finished the front rotors and pads, unfortunately I broke a rear
stud, so I couldn't get to the rear ones.
I used a jackstand to hold the caliper up while changing the pads, and I
used the old pads with a c-clamp to compress the pistons.
Started breaking the pads in today, doing about 20 35mph to 0 stops at
about 5 minute intervals, then hopped on the highway and did a complete stop
from 60 to 0 and let the rotors cool for about 30 minutes before heading out and
repeating it. They certainly have a lot more bite then when I first put them on,
but are only marginally better then the stock ones. Hope it improves more then
this.
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
"Don't drink and park, accidents cause
people!"
> What all do I need in order to change rotors and pads on my vr-4? Some
> sort of compression device or a vice or what?
You will need all the standard tools to work on your car. In
addition:
You will need a C-clamp to compress the calipers before you change the
brake pads. Just a regular 6 inch C clamp that you can buy at any hardware
store will do. Be sure you take the cap off your brake master cylinder
before you try to compress the caliper.
My front rotors came off pretty easy. I just hit them with my 20 oz
rubber mallet and they popped right off. I haven't replace my rear rotors
so I can't tell you how they are done.
You will want some sort of wire or rope to suspend the brake caliper as you
are changing the rotor. You do not want the caliper to just dangle by the
brake line. That can damage the brake line.
While you are down there, it might be a good idea to flush your braking
system and put in all new brake fluid.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:16:57 -0800
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
> How long does flushing the brake fluid take, I understand the
>
procedure, but my dad is telling me hours, and a couple of my friends
>
with newer then 60's cars are telling me 30 minutes, what's an accurate
>
time range?
How long it takes depends on a few things.
If you use a vacuum pump, you can do all 4 in about 30 minutes. If
you have a friend help, you can do it in about 30 minutes. If you are
doing it alone, then it could take an hour.
I do it alone myself. I now have a vacuum pump but in the past I used
to just use a 18 inch length of clear tubing going into a partially filled
bottle. Doing it alone just means you have to run around the car a lot,
checking and filling the fluid level in the reservoir and checking the tubing
for clean fluid.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
>> How long does flushing the brake fluid take, I understand the
>> procedure, but my dad is telling me hours, and a couple of my
friends
>> with newer then 60's cars are telling me 30 minutes, what's
an
>> accurate time range?
With two people, it takes about 45 minutes.
1. First, take a turkey baster, and suck all the old fluid out of the
master cylinder reservoir. Refill with a different color brake fluid.
2. Put the car on a lift or on jackstands, remove all four wheels, and
start the car (to get the ABS pump running).
3. Go to the bleeder valve at each wheel (one at a time, of course), and
tighten-pump-loosen until new fluid comes out (this would be a real good time to
install speed bleeders). Do all four wheels as fast as possible, refilling the
reservoir after each wheel. No need to be careful or dainty. Time: 20 minutes (5
min/wheel)
4. Carefully bleed the brakes according to the factory procedure (RR, RF,
LR, LF, I think) Time: 20 minutes.
So, I'd say it will take you about 40-45 minutes to change the fluid.
Rich/slow old poop.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 02:46:20 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake Job help
I think the procedure is RR, RF, LR, LF (you want to finish at the corner
closest to the ABS pump and on our car it is the RF). Starting the car is
recommended (manual says that I think) but someone else also mentioned that the
ABS pump might not flush the fluid through itself unless the ABS is
active. I'm not sure if anyone ever clarified that one yet.
I typically have a friend help and get the car on jackstands and all wheels
off and the 10mm or 11mm wrench ready and then it takes less than about 10-15
minutes. Getting prepped saves time. Bleed out a ton of the fluid
through the front left corner (closest to brake fluid reservoir and driver's
door) and put the length of hose on the caliper and into a partially-filled
bottle (important). The partially-filled bottle means that when you pump
the brakes and don't close the bleed screw that only fluid gets sucked up into
the hose. Air comes out, fluid goes in (even though it is dirty fluid - it
gets it done by one person).
Once you get out much of the fluid yourself then bring in the partner, put
in some new fluid, bleed out the old fluid through the other corners using the
normal method (opening and closing the bleed screw each time), and continue
until all corners bleed clear fluid.
Several methods. One is to open the bleed screw and pump the brake
pedal down slowly and hold to the floor while the partner tightens the bleed
screw and you lift your foot up. Repeat.
Another method is to pump the brake pedal five times and hold to the floor
while the bleed screw is kept shut, then your partner opens the bleed screw,
then tightens it. Repeat.
Use a vacuum pump, use a brake shop, use gravity, etc.
With my SpeedBleeders it is more like I open the bleed screw, my friend
pumps the pedal half a dozen times, clean fluid starts to come out, I shut that
bleed screw, go to the next corner. Doesn't take any more than 10
minutes.
The method with pumping first to build up some backpressure is fine but
once you get toward the end this is not good enough as you can't tell when the
new fluid is coming through since it shoots past so fast and has all sorts of
bubbles in it (I like to be sure that no bubbles are coming through the bleed
hose). So maybe a combination of the pump to make more backpressure
combined with the open, pump, close method is preferred.
Like others, I have SpeedBleeders (
www.speedbleeders.com) and are some of
the best bang for the buck I've invested in this car ($7 each for them
guys). They say it is a one-man job but it is still nice to have a second
set of eyes making sure nothing is leaking.
Don - part of the feeling you are getting might be the fluid you use. If it
is old then it might not work as well so yes, give it some more time but also
remember there is brake fluid, rubber brake lines, pads, sticking or not-as-new
pistons pushing the pads to the rotor, etc. Lots of areas where little
problems can add up to poor brake performance.
I guess it is time for more "How To" pages for the season. I'll see
what I can do. Usually I have slimy hands from brake fluid and don't want
to operate a digital camera at the time.
- --Flash!
1995-1/2 VR-4
Big Reds, SS braided brake lines, Motul 600
racing brake fluid, Porterfield R4-S pads
------------------------------
Anybody got a set of instructions on how to replace all four motor mounts?
Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 02:57:41 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: autocross tire pressure
I forgot to mention about the "shoe whitening" method. I only do it
in three parts of the tire because on the next run I put the marks in three
DIFFERENT locations (like 2" to the right of the previous three marks). A
Sharpie on the dried marking material stays more permanently than sidewalk chalk
and lets you write "Run 1" and "Run 2." On my track tires I wrote "Mid
Ohio 4/01" and "Watkins Glen 5/01" so that I knew at which events the tires were
used. These marks and words are still readable (nearly two years
later).
But you pump up the tires to whatever, mark the sidewall/shoulder area, do
a run, note all the air stuff in a log book, make new marks for the next run,
note pressures, do the run, note the results, etc. You will get the hang
of it after a while and be sure to ask the other participants (people NOT in
your class are more friendly than those you are competing against). Most
people are more than willing to let you borrow their air tank or gauge or offer
help and advice (as long as you don't overstay your welcome). Good
luck.
- --Flash!
With a tire signed by the first Street Mod National Champ
(Kent
Rafferty) - heck - I even Autox'ed *against* him at my local club since
that is where he also races but comparing a 34-second run to a 46-second run is
not what I would call even close to competing.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dean Benz
Sent: Thursday, March
06, 2003 13:46
The shoe polish and chalk method is also only a fair-good indicator...
Depending on your alignment, or if you overdrive the corners, it may tell you
the wrong thing, especially if you over drive a corners!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:59:32 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brake Job help
Three additional points --- read the manual [ if you don't have one get one
].
The engine is supposed to be running --- that turns on the ABS pump I
assume.
The sequence is a rear brake followed by the opposite front --- the dual
master cylinder operates on diagonal wheel pairs. The sequence in the book is
shown as RR - LF followed by LR - RF but I don't think which pair you do first
is critical.
Jim Berry
===================================================
> How long does flushing the brake fluid take, I understand the
>
procedure, but my dad is telling me hours, and a couple of my friends
>
with newer then 60's cars are telling me 30 minutes, what's an accurate
>
time range?
>
> BTW I finished the front rotors and pads,
unfortunately I broke a rear
> stud, so I couldn't get to the rear
ones.
------------------------------
Is it true that the car needs to be running while bleeding the brakes due
to the ABS system? It took me about 20min to do all four with the Speed
Bleeder (not including install of new bleeders).
Dan Labonte
- -----Original Message-----
From: dakken
[mailto:dougusmagnus@attbi.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 11:17 PM
To:
Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Job help
> How long does flushing the brake fluid take, I understand the
> procedure, but my dad is telling me hours, and a couple of my friends
> with newer then 60's cars are telling me 30 minutes, what's an accurate
> time range?
How long it takes depends on a few things.
If you use a vacuum pump, you can do all 4 in about 30 minutes. If
you have a friend help, you can do it in about 30 minutes. If you are
doing it alone, then it could take an hour.
I do it alone myself. I now have a vacuum pump but in the past I used
to just use a 18 inch length of clear tubing going into a partially filled
bottle. Doing it alone just means you have to run around the car a lot,
checking and filling the fluid level in the reservoir and checking the tubing
for clean fluid.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#100
***************************************
