Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Friday, March 7 2003     Volume 02 : Number 098




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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 09:57:07 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

I've gotta disagree with this statement that the 3KGT shifter is somehow inferior to the more expensive (3/S?) one.  I get frustrated sometimes when I hear the following line of logic:

- - Part A is inexpensive and not polished.  It functions well, all users are happy with it, and no problems have been reported.
- - Part B is more than twice the cost, and is polished.  Users Part B are also happy, with no problems.
- - Because it costs more and is pretty, Part B must be better.

I just don't understand this.  It's your money, so I guess you can spend it however you'd like.  Why is it worth it?  Please quantify. 

- - Brian

>
> There is also a short shifter for our car in 3kgt but from
> what people are
> saying in the forum and all, I would go with this other new
> short shifter.
> It's definitely more expensive than 3kgt($89) but I think
> it's worth it.  I
> plan to get one of this sometime in near future after I take
> care of some
> other stuffs.  Some of the guys already have it installed and
> it seems like
> they are really happy with their new shifters. 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 13:35:53 -0700
From: Desert Fox <bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

on 3/6/03 10:57, Geddes, Brian J at brian.j.geddes@intel.com scribbled:

> I've gotta disagree with this statement that the 3KGT shifter is somehow
> inferior to the more expensive (3/S?) one.  I get frustrated sometimes when I
> hear the following line of logic:
>
> - Part A is inexpensive and not polished.  It functions well, all users are
> happy with it, and no problems have been reported.
> - Part B is more than twice the cost, and is polished.  Users Part B are also
> happy, with no problems.
> - Because it costs more and is pretty, Part B must be better.
>
> I just don't understand this.  It's your money, so I guess you can spend it
> however you'd like.  Why is it worth it?  Please quantify.

I have the solution: Part A and Part B should be sent to me from the
producers so that I can try both. I'll post the results.

Call me a philanthropist...

;-)

If the unpolished one works, then who's gonna know otherwise once installed
(besides your wallet)?

- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:13:37 EST
From: GMightymoose@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: question of drive belts

Could anyone tell me the best brand and location of where one could find a
complete set of drive belts for a 92 VR4??  thanks in advance.

James G

99 & 92 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:16:04 -0600
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: question of drive belts

I would stick with the stock belts.  Here is a good place to order them =
from, http://www.mitsupartsdirect.com/,  one of the better discount =
online dealers IMHO...
=20
Francis
'96 RT/TT
=20
- -----Original Message-----
From: GMightymoose@aol.com [mailto:GMightymoose@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 3:14 PM
To: team3s-digest@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: question of drive belts
=20
Could anyone tell me the best brand and location of where one could find =
a complete set of drive belts for a 92 VR4??  thanks in advance.

James G

99 & 92 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:20:00 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

> - Part A is inexpensive and not polished.  It
> functions well, all users are happy with it,
> and no problems have been reported.
> - Part B is more than twice the cost, and is
> polished.  Users Part B are also happy, with
> no problems.

I was under the impression that the 3/S short shifter has stops on it and the
other ones don't.  If that's the case, then the 3/S is superior in that it
will help prevent broken shift forks.  Various DSM owners have already learned
that lesson the hard way.

If you break a shift fork from shifting forcefully without stops, you'll
easily spend the difference in shifter cost in tranny parts and labor.

For the record, I don't use either one.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 13:46:01 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

This is correct - there are no shift stops on the 3KGT shifter.  From what I've seen the shift stops never actually get touched while shifting, and the shift forks are beefy enough to take just about anything but a sledgehammer pounding the shifter into gear.  What I've read could be wrong - perhaps the shift stops are important for our transmission.  However, I haven't seen any evidence to this effect.

After re-reading my post, I realized that it may have sounded confrontational, or like an insult.  I didn't mean it that way!  I was just venting my frustration on a trend I see in the 3/S community that "more expensive is better", even on very simple parts.  I apologize if my post insulted anyone.

- - Brian

> I was under the impression that the 3/S short shifter has
> stops on it and the
> other ones don't.  If that's the case, then the 3/S is
> superior in that it
> will help prevent broken shift forks.  Various DSM owners
> have already learned
> that lesson the hard way.
>
> If you break a shift fork from shifting forcefully without
> stops, you'll
> easily spend the difference in shifter cost in tranny parts and labor.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:06:17 -0600
From: "Philip Kennedy" <pkennedy@sfigroupinc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Question: 1994 3000GT N/A @ 119k almost 120k, question about 120k service.

Greetings fellow 3000GT/Stealth enthusiasts. I'm at almost 120k on my 1994
3000GT N/A. I'm wondering what all I should have serviced? Is there a list
somewhere, with all parts needed for 120k service? Any help or advice will
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
- -Philip K.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:15:51 -0500
From: bob atkins <ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

I have SN #1 of Ohiospyderman's 3S Short Shifter installed in my car.

I am very particular that any hardware I put on my car exceeds form, fit and
function of the part it replaces.  I can't tell you how GOOD this shifter
is.  While it feels like stock in terms of action, it is no more than half
the original throw length.  The quality of design and construction is so
good that most of the OEM hardware is reused on the install.

The truth is, if you drove my car, you would notice a difference but, you
might wonder what exactly was different until you thought about it enough to
pay attention.

Bad bob
'99VR-4

on 3/6/03 9:03 AM, Lim, Yong H  SPC at yong.lim@sill.army.mil wrote:

> Here is the link:
> http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/showthread.php?s=d7b78d526f98ca8c8c97952687
> 4a3885&threadid=126519&highlight=short+shifter
>
> There is also a short shifter for our car in 3kgt but from what people are
> saying in the forum and all, I would go with this other new short shifter.
> It's definitely more expensive than 3kgt($89) but I think it's worth it.  I
> plan to get one of this sometime in near future after I take care of some
> other stuffs.  Some of the guys already have it installed and it seems like
> they are really happy with their new shifters. 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:19:28 -0800
From: Bob Forrest <bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question: 1994 3000GT N/A @ 119k almost 120k, question about 120k service.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Kennedy" <pkennedy@sfigroupinc.com>
> Greetings fellow 3000GT/Stealth enthusiasts. I'm at almost 120k on my 1994
3000GT N/A. I'm wondering what all I should have serviced? Is there a list
somewhere, with all parts needed for 120k service? Any help or advice will be
greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> -Philip K.
- ----------------------------

The recommendations are the same as for the 60k service, except that
replacing the water pump (which is only *strongly recommended* for the 60k) is
pretty much mandatory for the 120k.  We are just about to update the 60k Page
on our website to include a 120k-specific list, courtesy of Riyan, and that
will be up by the weekend, hopefully.  Look for it in the FAQ Index page,
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm
- ---Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:54:19 -0500
From: bob atkins <ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Quick shift gear lever

 a waste of money unless you're trying to
> take a hundredth of a second off of your ¼ mile time or you want to
> be cool.
>
>       Jim Berry


OK I'll admit it.  I qualify under the latter.

Bad bob

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:40:14 -0800
From: "Ranzenbach Family" <ranzenbach@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

This started suddenly.  I am unable to shift from neutral into any gear.  At
first I suspected low fluid in the reservoir.  The owner's manual would seem
to indicate that both the clutch and brakes run from the same master
cylinder.  Upon checking, I found the cap loose.  The fluid level was a
little low but still more than the minimum.  To be safe I added fluid and
was able to drive a few blocks when once again I was unable to shift.  Is it
possible that I have air in the system and this is affecting the clutch?
How would I correct this?

94 R/T TT 6sp AWD, complete engine and turbo rebuild 4K miles (74K) ago.

Thanks, -ear

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:40:59 -0700
From: Desert Fox <bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

How's your clutch?

- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent

on 3/6/03 16:40, Ranzenbach Family at ranzenbach@sbcglobal.net scribbled:

> This started suddenly.  I am unable to shift from neutral into any gear.  At
> first I suspected low fluid in the reservoir.  The owner's manual would seem
> to indicate that both the clutch and brakes run from the same master
> cylinder.  Upon checking, I found the cap loose.  The fluid level was a
> little low but still more than the minimum.  To be safe I added fluid and
> was able to drive a few blocks when once again I was unable to shift.  Is it
> possible that I have air in the system and this is affecting the clutch?
> How would I correct this?
>
> 94 R/T TT 6sp AWD, complete engine and turbo rebuild 4K miles (74K) ago.
>
> Thanks, -ear

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:51:08 -0800
From: "Andrew Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

It sure sounds like your clutch slave cylinder needs bleeding. It is pretty
easy to do. It bleeds the same way brakes do.  Have someone in the car step
on the clutch and hold it in. After the clutch is depressed quickly loosen
the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and tighten it again. The person
inside will feel the clutch go down a little but after releasing it, it
should feel tighter. After a couple of times doing this you should be able
to shift into gear and drive normally. If this does not work then maybe the
slave or the master has some other problem, or maybe the problem is
elsewhere from the git go.  Good luck.

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:36:29 EST
From: GMightymoose@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: anyone have calipers for sale?

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone has any a drivers side rear caliper and/or
good rotors for a 92 VR4 for sale.  thanks for any info in advance

James

99 & 92 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:31:32 -0600
From: "William Jeffrey Crabtree" <wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

I don't want to scare you, but I had this happen once in my old jeep (93).
It turned out to be that I had actually cracked a gear(one associated with
5th gear) inside the transmission and had to replace that gear.  I REALIZE
that an AX-15 and a W5MG1 are WORLDS apart, but I wanted to throw this in
because everybody seems to be pointing to your clutch.  If you check your
clutch and slve cylinder only to find nothing wrong, you may have to look
deeper.


- -Jeff C.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Ranzenbach Family
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:40 PM
To: Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.
<<SNIP>>I am unable to shift from neutral into any gear.  <<SNIP>>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:12:27 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

Actually, no, the brakes and clutch do not operate from the same master
cylinder. The clutch master cylinder is tucked away further back near the
firewall more towards the outside of the car from the brake master cylinder.
You should see the cap hiding under the thick black AC coolant line. It does
sound like one of your cylinders is going out. You can see if it's the
master by looking at the firewall inside the car underneath the clutch pedal
where the rod goes through to the master cylinder. If it's wet under there,
the master cylinder needs replacing or rebuilding (rebuild kit is only
$30ish) If it's bone dry under there, and the fluid is full, I would suspect
the clutch slave cylinder. Replacing the slave fixed my symptoms (which
sound exactly like yours). I rebuilt the master anyway. After taking it
apart, the rubber seal on the plunger was pretty much shot compared to the
new one in the rebuild kit. It may also be a pinhole leak in one of the
rubber clutch hoses, but this usually leads to complete loss of clutch
control.

Omar
92 r/t

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf Of
Ranzenbach Family
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 6:40 PM
To: Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

This started suddenly.  I am unable to shift from neutral into any gear.  At
first I suspected low fluid in the reservoir.  The owner's manual would seem
to indicate that both the clutch and brakes run from the same master
cylinder.  Upon checking, I found the cap loose.  The fluid level was a
little low but still more than the minimum.  To be safe I added fluid and
was able to drive a few blocks when once again I was unable to shift.  Is it
possible that I have air in the system and this is affecting the clutch?
How would I correct this?

94 R/T TT 6sp AWD, complete engine and turbo rebuild 4K miles (74K) ago.

Thanks, -ear

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 05:06:41 -0500
From: "Arthurs Family" <arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject: Team3S: More info on heavy engine knocking

Sincerest thanks to all who responded to my question.  Here is more detail
on my problem.
1. Car is '92 Stealth twin turbo with 78,000 miles.
2. Problem surfaced after oil change.
3. Knocking seems to originate from rear head area.
4. Scent of gasoline on dipstick.
5. Knock is definite metal to metal rapping sound,
    increasing in volume & intensity with rpm
6. When slight load on engine, in gear just above idle,
     noise changes from "sharp" to "dull".
7.  No loss of engine performance up to 3500 rpm (didn't
      dare go higher).

I would like to find an individual or shop in the Jamestown, NY area  (Erie,
PA,  Buffalo, NY) who has an understanding of these cars and can diagnose &
service if necessary.  Anyone come to mind?

Thank you,
Jon Arthurs
Jamestown, NY

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 03:25:05 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: More info on heavy engine knocking

Since I live in CA, I don't know of any shops. But I sure can give you a
little more advice. If you smell gas on the dipstick even after doing a few
oil changes, then you might have a leaky fuel injector. After you stop your
car, the residual pressure might be bleeding through cracks in the injector
and slowly dispersing past the piston rings and into the lower part of the
crankcase where the oil is. If you end up needing some (or even just 1) new
injectors, then I'll give you all six of my old stock ones for cheap. You
can have them flow matched and balanced through RC Engineering and then
install them. Although the noises you describe "sound" like bad news, your
car only has 78k on it. So I'd be willing to bet that your engine internals
are fine, unless the previous owner really didn't take care of the car (as
in, changed the oil less than once per year). Since your car is turbo,
remember to fill it up with Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic oil when all the short
interval oil changes that I discussed earlier have been performed.

When you do find a dealer, ask them to remove the accessory belts and see if
the noises go away. You may have severely damaged bearings on an accessory
somewhere.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:22:41 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.

Also, the brakes and the clutch work off separate master cylinders with
separate fluid reservoirs.  So make sure your checking the correct
reservoir for the clutch.  It's the one with the 1-1/4 -1-1/2 inch white
cap on it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Woll [mailto:awoll1@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:51 PM
To: Ranzenbach Family; Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Unable to shift into gear.


It sure sounds like your clutch slave cylinder needs bleeding. It is
pretty
easy to do. It bleeds the same way brakes do.  Have someone in the car
step
on the clutch and hold it in. After the clutch is depressed quickly
loosen
the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and tighten it again. The person
inside will feel the clutch go down a little but after releasing it, it
should feel tighter. After a couple of times doing this you should be
able
to shift into gear and drive normally. If this does not work then maybe
the
slave or the master has some other problem, or maybe the problem is
elsewhere from the git go.  Good luck.

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 13:26:23 -0500
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Team3S: I have a V-12!

I had an exhaust done on my car this week. The Stillen pipe was shortened
to accept a high-flow heavy duty Catco cat (the flex section was moved
forward). Then a 3" pipe splits into two 2.5" pipes and goes to twin Bomz
Performance Evolution-R Spec tunable mufflers. The muffler guy did a good
job and I am happy now. He also fabricated a test pipe to replace the cat
when I want those 5-10 extra horses.

The car now pulls better and revs higher. I hit the rev limiter first time
I opened it because it just did not want to slow down accelerating. The
sound is definitely not a low-pitch growl, unless I remove the tunable
inserts and rev it at low rpm, then it will be. I can hear my left and
right ears popping one at a time like from two subwoffers when I stand in
the back of the car. My goal was not to make it sound like a V8. My goal
was to minimize the restriction and keep the noise under control, which is
exactly the result that I got. It flows very well and it is rather quiet
too.

I was thinking about how to describe the sound. It is not the stock choked
V6 and it is not the growly big-bore V8. The pulses are occurring at a
higher frequency and they sound smoother too. The car sounds a little bit
like a jet engine when the turbos are spooling up and then the exhaust
becomes one loud gas flow. The smoothness it probably due to the turbos
smoothing out the pulses. First I thought it sounded like two 4-banger rice
rockets. Then I thought no way, there has got to be the a third one in
there too. Three 4-bangers? Or rather a 12-cylinder? It makes a perfect
sense! Six cylinders are shooting their exhaust into a single pipe, which
then splits into two unequal-length muffler pipes. The result is that I
have six cylinders sounding out of one pipe and six out of the other with a
kind of cool stereo effect. It's a V12 baby!

Philip
'95 R/T TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:10:27 -0700
From: Desert Fox <bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: I have a V-12!

Please forward some of whatever you are smoking as it appears to be working
well on you.;-)

How much did all this exhaust rework flatten your wallet?

- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent

on 3/7/03 11:26, pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com at pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
scribbled:

> I had an exhaust done on my car this week. The Stillen pipe was shortened
> to accept a high-flow heavy duty Catco cat (the flex section was moved
> forward). Then a 3" pipe splits into two 2.5" pipes and goes to twin Bomz
> Performance Evolution-R Spec tunable mufflers. The muffler guy did a good
> job and I am happy now. He also fabricated a test pipe to replace the cat
> when I want those 5-10 extra horses.
>
> The car now pulls better and revs higher. I hit the rev limiter first time
> I opened it because it just did not want to slow down accelerating. The
> sound is definitely not a low-pitch growl, unless I remove the tunable
> inserts and rev it at low rpm, then it will be. I can hear my left and
> right ears popping one at a time like from two subwoffers when I stand in
> the back of the car. My goal was not to make it sound like a V8. My goal
> was to minimize the restriction and keep the noise under control, which is
> exactly the result that I got. It flows very well and it is rather quiet
> too.
>
> I was thinking about how to describe the sound. It is not the stock choked
> V6 and it is not the growly big-bore V8. The pulses are occurring at a
> higher frequency and they sound smoother too. The car sounds a little bit
> like a jet engine when the turbos are spooling up and then the exhaust
> becomes one loud gas flow. The smoothness it probably due to the turbos
> smoothing out the pulses. First I thought it sounded like two 4-banger rice
> rockets. Then I thought no way, there has got to be the a third one in
> there too. Three 4-bangers? Or rather a 12-cylinder? It makes a perfect
> sense! Six cylinders are shooting their exhaust into a single pipe, which
> then splits into two unequal-length muffler pipes. The result is that I
> have six cylinders sounding out of one pipe and six out of the other with a
> kind of cool stereo effect. It's a V12 baby!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #98
**************************************