Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume
02 : Number 085
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:55:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Dustin Lenz <
deviousz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Team3s: Warranty Company says they're not covering it
My 97 VR-4 broke down, so I brought it to the dealer since I have a Western
Diversified extended warranty from Protective. They ripped it apart and
found that piston #3 was apparently melted. That was the only piston with
damage. The warranty company sent (which it apparently always does) an
independent inspection agency to make a report. Their findings were that
the top of piston #3 melted due to detonation, and that it is not covered by my
warranty. I have power train only coverage, which covers the Engine,
Tranny, and Drivetrain. When speaking with the dealer, who argued on my
behalf stating that if detonation was the cause, the dealer asked the inspector,
why didn't any of the other pistons have damage.
I have already contacted my lawyer, who is with one of the top firms in
Chicago but I want to speak with more than one. If someone here has anyone
they can refer, it would be much appreciated.
All comments/suggestions are also welcome, as this doesn't make much sense
to me. To me, I have a warranty that covers the engine, if the engine has
a problem like this, it should be covered.
I yeah, the car is stock except for the suspension, and ss brake
lines. Any thoughts?
- -Dustin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:55:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Team3s: Warranty Company says they're not covering it
use your existing lawyer, Magnussen moss warranty Act. make em prove
it in court with the loser covering YOUR legal expenses.
They'll lose or crumble before it gets that far.
its really a very simple law to argue, even without a lawyer. They
-have- to prove it was something you did, period.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:56:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Just installed my S-AFC
Maybe lean it out up top some, but that removes any 'safely' about
it.
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Donald Ashby wrote:
> Took about 5 hours total, had some major problems, when I first hooked
> it up and turned the car to on, the buttons lit up but I had
>
absolutely nothing on the display!! Went back through, checked every
>
wire, turns out the 2nd ground wire wasn't making a connection. Fixed
>
it and the car was able to start and run! Still have it set at 0%
>
correction across the board since I have stock injectors in. I was
> just
wondering if there was anything I could do with it while still
> having
stock injectors to get a little more power safely? I'm waiting
> until I
get my datalogger and EGT set up before I put in my bigger
> injectors.
Donald Ashby '93 3000GT VR-4 "Don't drink and park,
> accidents cause
people!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 06:50:16 -0800
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Just installed my S-AFC
There is a little manual that came with your SAFC that has settings for the
car. The only problem is that it is written in Japanese. You should
be able to figure it out from the numbers. Just look in the manual
for
Mitsubishi GTO. I never used those settings because I changed
injectors at
the same time as I installed my SAFC. The adjustments are
relatively small tweaks from 1-3%.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:52:18 -0600
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Just installed my S-AFC
Go to apexi-usa.com and download the English manual.
Francis
'96 RT/TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:00:24 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Just installed my S-AFC
If it is the S-AFC-II then there is not yet a manual on their site
!!!
At 08:52 19.02.2003 -0600, Morice, Francis wrote:
>Go to
apexi-usa.com and download the English manual.
>
>Francis
>'96
RT/TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:39:32 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Team3s: Warranty Company says they're not covering it
Unfortunately in Dustin's case, it's not that simple Geoff. It is
true that under the MMWA, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void a new vehicle
warranty due to the use of an aftermarket part unless the manufacturer proves
that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure. However, the
question in Dustin's case is not whether the engine damage was caused by an
aftermarket part, or something Dustin did, but whether the engine damage was
caused by something that is covered under Dustin's extended warranty.
Different issue.
Dustin will need to carefully read his warranty to determine what is and
what is not covered. He will probably need an expert who will testify that
the engine damage was caused by "X," and that "X" is covered. The court
will then decide whether "X" is a "covered cause of loss," meaning that the
"cause" of the engine damage is covered by the extended warranty.
Questions like this boil down to the unique facts of the particular
situation--i.e., is the warranty company's version of the cause of loss right,
or is the consumer's version of the cause of loss right?
This is typical of third-party extended warranty companies, which is why I
never did, and never will, buy one. If there's wiggle room to argue that a
particular loss is not covered, like there virtually always is for repairs to
major systems (powertrain and engine especially), then the warranty company will
stand up and shout "Hell no, we won't pay." It's up to the consumer to pursue
the case, and most of them are settled with the warranty company paying
something less than the total bill.
My recommendation to Dustin is to let his lawyer handle it since Dustin
will make sure they are apprised of all necessary facts and they will ask all
the right questions. The MMWA has many traps for the legally unwary.
For example, Dustin does not say what type of "extended warranty" he purchased,
and where he got it from. But if he purchased it from a third-party vendor
after being offered it by the warranty company after he bought his car (as
opposed to being offered it by the dealer in connection with his purchase of the
car), then there is some question whether the MMWA even applies. That is
because under the MMWA, the warranty must be made "in connection with the sale
of a consumer product by a supplier to a buyer. . ." Moreover, Dustin does
not state whether his warranty is indeed a warranty, or whether it is a
"service
contract." The MMWA may not apply to "service
contracts." Finally,
Dustin does not state whether his warranty
contains an agreement to arbitrate disputes. If so, he is probably
obligated to arbitrate, and there is a potential that a failure to do so will be
a bar to bringing the claim in court.
This is not intended to constitute legal advice, and is not intended to
discuss or comment upon the merits of Dustin's claims. Dustin should
consult with his counsel.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
[mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:56
AM
use your existing lawyer, Magnussen moss warranty Act. make em prove
it in court with the loser covering YOUR legal expenses.
They'll lose or crumble before it gets that far.
its really a very simple law to argue, even without a lawyer.
They
-have- to prove it was something you did, period.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:01:00 -500
From:
ukyo@speedfactory.netSubject:
Re: Team3S: Just installed my S-AFC
Donald -
About the only thing I would see you able to do is get slightly better MPG
by leaning out the low throttle a couple of %. I really don't think
there's any way to get more power from the stock injectors without using alky /
propane injection with them.
But, if you want a little better MPG, try dropping the low throttle
settings down 2% or so. Are you watching your A/F somehow (gauge, voltage
on S-AFC, etc)?
Overall it's probably best to leave the stock injectors at 0%
correction.
- -- Travis
'94 3000GT VR-4
'97 Eclipse GSX
'97 Supra TT
> I was just wondering if there was anything I could do with it while
> still having stock injectors to get a little more power safely? I'm
> waiting until I get my datalogger and EGT set up before I put in my
> bigger injectors. Donald Ashby '93 3000GT VR-4 "Don't drink and park,
> accidents cause people!"
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#85
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