Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, February 9
2003 Volume 02 : Number 076
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:00:20 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 265's on 8.5 rims?
You can do it, but as Geoff originally said, handling won't be the
greatest... The tire will tend to roll under. Optimum is having a
tire's section width 10% wider than the wheel. Following this rule, you
get 237 mm, but 245 isn't much wider (8 mm is within acceptable)... For a
road going car, 275 on a 8.5" rim is ok, but from a performance standpoint, you
are better off with either a smaller tire, or a wider wheel...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
Sent: Friday, February
07, 2003 4:11 PM
When I purchased my car, there were 265/35R18 on the rear stock 18" wheels.
The fronts were 245/40R18.
I didn't have any troubles with the 265's on the rear but I can't speak for
the front.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:19:02 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Ok, so what's the big deal about rebuilding an engine?! Engine rebuild advice
needed!!
Well, don't know if many remember my $2 timing belt gasket getting into my
timing belt...
Anyhow finally got around to getting some work done on the car. Pulled the
motor out last weekend, put it in the trunk and started calling around to see
what people charge to do the machine work and re-assembly. I have never torn
apart an engine, but hell, I have never done many things, and end up doing them
on this car... Seems any time anyone hears 3000GT TwinTurbo, their eyes change
to $ signs. The quotes I am getting for a longblock rebuild are more than the
cost of my entire car!! Obviously they are marking up parts and charging insane
rates for labor... Cheapest quote I can find for doing just the shortblock
(labor and machining only, no parts) is $700! NOBODY will warranty the work
ether! Cheapest longblock rebuild (not including parts and using my 90%
assembled heads) was $1700!!!!
Anyhow, here is the condition:
I have heads, 90% assembled (just need cams).
I have new
pistons.
Reusing rods, cams, crank and block.
>From what I understand, there is only about $300 worth of machine work
that needs to be done (balance crank, bore cylinders, surface the top). What is
the big deal with assembly? Looking at the bills I'm seriously thinking about
doing it myself. From what I gather doing the bearings is the most tricky
part.
Is there any engine rebuild guide anywhere online? Some soft of a wire-up?
Also sources to get stuff like bearings? Tips etc wanted. I don't know what I am
getting into here but I am seriously thinking about doing this on my
own...
Comments, advice, links wanted. BADLY!
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:29:47 -0700
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ok, so what's the big deal about rebuilding an engine?! Engine
rebuild advice needed!!
Rebuilding the engine is not that bad at all. An engine is an
engine. Just take pictures before and as you go. Some of the
brackets and stuff is puzzling to get back on. Be organized as well.
Bag and label everything. Make sure you mark the rods and stuff and which way
they go with permanent markers. If it can be taken apart and you might
have trouble realigning something or matching something up, mark it before
hand. I would say do it yourself. My father and I did mine and I
could do it now by myself, but if you haven't ever built an engine...some of the
tricks and procedures might be a little tough for you.
Bearings you can order at 3SX.
My labor entailed similar work as yours
and it ran me about $700-$800.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:45:22 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Ok, so what's the big deal about rebuilding an engine?! Engine rebuild
advice needed!!
Thanks Gabe,
That sounds encouraging! Did you guys take any pictures of your own? An
illustrated guide would be so cool! Anyone know of one? I will keep 3sx in mind
for parts, I got my clutch there and it turned out pretty good. Any suggestions
for sources to get oil pump, gasket kit etc? How much should those run me?
Thanks,
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:54:25 -0700
From: Gabe Simoes <
Gabe92RTTT@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ok, so what's the big deal about rebuilding an engine?! Engine
rebuild advice needed!!
As of now I do not know of an illustrated guide. The engine goes
together real easily, but the external parts can be troublesome. 3SX is a
great shop for parts and Steve and Eric are very very helpful. A full
gasket set (Felpro) will run you about $400 anywhere you go, whether it be
NAPA or Dynamic Racing. Pumps are best found shopping around online or at
your local Auto Zone or Checker, etc. Parts can get expensive. Don't
take chances though and replace you pumps, t stat, gaskets, seals, sensor if
need be, belts and anything else that would cause you problems later. Make
sure your turbos are good (if it is a turbo) because it is a whole hell of a lot
easier to change them while they are outside the car. Take your time and
you should be fine. Contact someone who knows engines really well so that
they may give you some pointers on the critical building aspects. While
you are in there, get a die grinder and port match the manifolds. Mine had
some really nasty protrusions and obstructions (casting flaws) in the
paths. If you need some email me privately and I will see what I can
assist you through...there is plenty of support here and on 3si.org. You
will never be totally alone.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Sent: Friday,
February 07, 2003 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ok, so what's the big deal
about rebuilding an engine?! Engine rebuild advice needed!!
> Thanks Gabe,
>
> That sounds encouraging! Did you guys
take any pictures of your own?
> An illustrated guide would be so cool!
Anyone know of one? I will keep
> 3sx in mind for parts, I got my clutch
there and it turned out pretty
> good. Any suggestions for sources to get
oil pump, gasket kit etc? How
> much should those run me?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:03:35 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Ok, so what's the big deal about rebuilding an engine?! Engine rebuild advice
needed!!
I honestly think that your $300 for machine work is a bit on the low side.
Shops that do this kind of work tend to have a lot of overhead in the
equipment
that it takes to do this kind of work.
I recently got quotes on a doing the valves for my VR4. Highest was $600
and
the lowest was $325 I actually went with the lower price as the
machinist
seemed more knowledgeable about our engines and more enthusiastic
about doing
the job. I took the heads to him with cams, rockers and lash
adjusters taken
out.
About 15 years ago I had the 302 from my 72 Mustang Convertible bored .030
over, the crank ground and the valves done (only 2 per cyl) and spent $900
on
it and this was at a shop that I had do a lot of work for me and I know
they
were giving me great deals.
Considering the time and equipment involved to do the job right I really
don't
consider any of the prices that you are listing here to be that
outrageous. When you look at the number of parts involved just in the top end of
our engines, assembly becomes a very labor intensive proposition. Personally I
can tear the heads off most any Chevy or Ford carbureted engine
and put them
back on and have it up and running in a few hours. I spent 30-40
hours just
on the reassembly of my VR4 and had only taken the top end off.
Granted I'm not as familiar with our engines and it was still in the car
but my
point is these are not easy engines to work on.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:35:52 -0800
From: John Sheehan <
johns@kyso.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
265's on 8.5 rims?
What is the widest for a stock 1st gen 17"s ???? Thanx, John
cody wrote:
>You can do it, but as Geoff originally said, handling won't be
the
>greatest... The tire will tend to roll under. Optimum is
having a
>tire's section width 10% wider than the wheel. Following
this rule,
>you get 237 mm, but 245 isn't much wider (8 mm is within
acceptable)...
>For a road going car, 275 on a 8.5" rim is ok, but
from a performance
>standpoint, you are better off with either a smaller
tire, or a wider
>wheel...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:29:25 -0600
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine Rebuilding Advice
> I honestly think that your $300 for machine work is a
> bit on
the low side. Shops that do this kind of work
> tend to have a lot
of overhead in the equipment
> that it takes to do this kind of
work.
I'd agree. I paid $1400 for rebuilding two heads, rod conversion to
full-floating pins, polish crank, balance
crank/rods/pistons/flywheel/harmonic-balancer individually and as a unit, and
bore block oversize 2mm with proper torque plates.
> > Cheapest quote I can find for doing just the shortblock (labor
and
> > machining only, no parts) is $700! NOBODY will warranty the
work
> > ether! Cheapest longblock rebuild (not including parts and
using my
> > 90% assembled heads) was $1700!!!!
Those prices really don't sound that unreasonable to me. $700 for
stripping down a shortblock, hot tanking it, and boring/balancing/reassembly for
$700 ain't bad. If I would've had that option, I would've jumped at
it.
> > I have heads, 90% assembled (just need cams).
> > I have
new pistons.
> > Reusing rods, cams, crank and block.
Which pistons? If the pistons are set up for floating pins, you are
going to have to modify the rods (ie: Ross pistons for sure).
> > Is there any engine rebuild guide anywhere online?
> >
Some soft of a wire-up?
I was going to do one, and have plenty of pictures and such - but it comes
down to following the procedure in the manual. Don't forget to Plastigauge
all the clearances with the bearings dry. Work slow and steady - take your
time. Expect to put in 30-40 hours or so. Reassemble somewhere
CLEAN.
> > Also sources to get stuff like bearings? Tips etc wanted. I
don't
> > know
what
> > I am getting into here but I am
seriously thinking about doing this
> > on
my
> >
own...
Get some books on engine rebuilding - learn as much as you can beforehand
so you can make better decisions about your procedures during reassembly.
Most of the books you'll find will be for V8 motors - the essentials are the
same.
Good luck! It ain't fun...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
"troubles" is suggestive.
8.5" is too narrow for 265.
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Desert Fox wrote:
> When I purchased my car, there were 265/35R18 on the rear stock
18"
> wheels. The fronts were 245/40R18.
>
> I didn't have
any troubles with the 265's on the rear but I can't
> speak for the
front.
------------------------------
Incorrect. The stiffest part of the tire is ONLY the tire directly
supported by the wheel.
The sidewall will be far outside the edge of the wheel.
Technically, the BEST fit for a performance tire on a 9" rim is 245.
> I would not mind trying. This is the size that I am going to buy
when
> all six of my Kumhos 712 wear out. I also have 8.5" wide rims. I
think
> I will love a better grip of the wider tires and, since the O.D.
is a
> tad smaller, I would be able to use my gearbox better.
>
> I have seen OEM tire/wheel packages with ratios worse than that
and
> they handle fine. Another comparison, even though 275x35-18 on a 9"
> rim, which is not a controversial setup according to the formula, has
> a better ratio than 265x35-18 on a 8.5" rim, the "excess width" of the
> latter tire is only 1.35 mm larger on each side. But that tire has a
> profile which is lower by 3.5 mm, which should improve sidewall
> stiffness.
>
> Both setups must handle better than
245x40-18 on a 8.5" rim, IMHO.
>
> I was told by some unrecognized
experts that an AWD car is a different
> animal and that it needs some
extra flex in the suspension to be able
> to go fast. Anyone can comment
on that?
>
> Philip
------------------------------
I installed that horn but is was no better than stock.
I got
one called The Highway Blaster from NAPA and it was MUCH better.
It
sounds like a REAL horn.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Baldwin
Sent: Friday,
February 07, 2003 2:18 PM
Has anyone installed one of these horns in their car? I got the one from
Griott's Garage Part#3AG 003 399-801. I think it may be louder but it still has
a tinny sound to it.
Anyone have any experience with this? I talked to a friend of mine that
works at a Mercedes dealership and he said there might be some extra wire that
could be causing problems. I'm going to follow up with him on this tomorrow but
wanted to see if the minds here had any input.
Thanks
Mike 97 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 05:40:03 -0700
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Is it true cylinder #1 runs hotter?
I just ordered my EGT probe and gauge, I was wondering where to tap it to
get the most useful information from it. I remember someone once told me that
cylinder #1 runs leanest, and therefore hottest, so would it be best to tap into
the manifold right after #1? If not, where should I tap it? thanks, Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4 "Don't drink and park, accidents cause people!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 08:34:28 -0600
From: "Chris Blackman" <
qbclub13@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Will a 96 base ECU Fit a 95 SL?
I have the chance to get a 1996 ECU for little or nothing and would like to
know if it is the same one that is in my 1995 SL.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:02:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 2nd gen calipers on 1st gen VR-4 with stock rims?
Hi Russ,
Don't chance cutting the inside of a rim cause the
metal is thin.
The rim starts as a cylinder and then
is deep drawn to shape. And then
the spoke section is
welded on.
There is a good pic of the area where the caliper hits
the rim in this
URL:
The 1st gen StealthTT rim is similar and will not
clear the 2nd gen
braking system. The 2nd gen caliper
hits the Stealth rim near the weld
metal.
Be of good cheer,
JCZooM
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:04:47 -0500
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hella Horn
Jim Floyd wrote:
> I installed that horn but is was no better than
stock.
> I got one called The Highway Blaster from NAPA and it was
MUCH better.
> It sounds like a REAL
horn.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael
Baldwin
>Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:18 PM
>
>Has anyone
installed one of these horns in their car? I got the one
>from Griott's
Garage Part#3AG 003 399-801. I think it may be louder but
>it still has a
tinny sound to it.
I agree. The Hella horns are a little too high pitched. Much
louder
than the stock horns, but would have preferred a lower tone.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#76
**************************************