Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, January 28
2003 Volume 02 : Number 065
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:34:05 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: New to modifications...
>So the Stillen downpipe replaces the front pre-cat - what about the
>rear one?
No, this is the complicated one ! Tyson's aluminized DP also eliminates the
front precat. The DP from ATR is stainless steel but has no flex section
(but never had any problems) and it doesn't replace the front section. Also
Greddy and HKS are normal steel and both do not replace the front one. No
DP replaces the rear at all due to the horrible design.
>So it looks like a full replacement exhaust is gonna run me between
>$750-$1200?
There is a Borla deal for $495 on, DP is around $450 and the precats can be
gutted (cost me $60 at a local shop). A testpipe is around $50. A note
about the Borla : get the three baffles from Borla customer service that
have to be inserted into the tubing to get rid of any droning. Otherwise
the borla is very good and you save a lot of weight. Also fitment is great
(compared with HKS and others !!). Also the ATR can be recommended if you
like the look. The ss quality is very high and It will last forever.
The DP all are 2 1/2" into 3" (HKS and Greddy are 2 - 2 1/2" small) so
don't worry about the size, it's big enough for everything.
Letting a shop do your own exhaust isn't bad at all. Get some OBX bomb
mufflers on ebay for $150 a pair and let one bend the tubes and make
hangers on them for around $200 or so. A single side is of course much
cheaper but I don't like the one side look much ;-) Since you have a 2nd
gen it would look odd ... just MHO.
Roger G.
93' & 96'3000GT TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:05:56 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ECS malfunction
Most of the ECS malfunctions are caused by bad connections, but you already
checked this.
What about a bad button (I had this on the flip up switch) ? You may also
consult the workshop manual on CD as there is explained how to check ECS
for proper functionality.
Roger
93' & 96'3000GT TT
At 18:48 26.01.2003 -0800, A. Kryjevski
wrote:
>Hello:
>
>While I was contemplating suspension
modifications my 1992 Stealth R/T
>went ahead in the opposite direction
and developed an ECS problem.
<snip>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:21:14 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: where to get a deal on Krank Vent
Unfortunately, I don't know of any group buy so the price on their site is
what you have to pay for.
Invest in a cheap catch can (Summit has a nice but long one for $49) and
get the crank vents later :-)
At 18:50 26.01.2003 -0500, anthonymelillo wrote:
>I am looking to
install one of the Krank Vents that I have heard so
>much about, but can
not afford the $100+ for the kit I saw on
>their web site. Does
anyone know where I could get one cheaper ?
>
>Any help is greatly
appreciated. Thanks
>Anthony Melillo
>1997 VR-4, Firestorm Red
>http://home.sprintmail.com/~anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 06:46:29 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Damaged - Enkie Wheel - VIA 18x9JJ 42
The VIA is a standard, not a model... That stamping on the wheel
indicates it passes specification. Can you take a picture, I could
prolly tell you which model it is. Wheel repair is always a viable
option, and is very reliable if done correctly.
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Hyde
Sent: Monday, January 27,
2003 12:30 AM
<snip>
If the VIA model can't be found anywhere, I'll investigate
wheel repair. I suppose it might be possible. Right now the damage
is bad enough where every rotation of the tire causes sufficient bead
separation at the bend to hiss out/lose air. It's a little weird since the
issue manifests itself as a 'ticking noise'
Wheel specifics:
ENKIE - VIA 18 x 9 JJ 42 -
These are numbers that are stamped on and
inside the wheel. I'm
assuming VIA must be the ENKIE model but I have no evidence of that except
for a stamp on one of the 5 spokes.. I'm hoping I can locate one of these
wheels.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:19:34 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Bad trannies. When did Mitsu know?
Lemon laws differ from state to state, but most have significant mileage
restrictions. For example, in PA, if my memory serves me right, the
law applies to new cars provided the problem is first reported during the
first 12 months that the car is placed in service, and before the car as
12K on the odometer.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Ninneman
[mailto:dninneman@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 2:53 AM
Of course, the transmission problems are NOT a safety issue. Poor
design either by Mitsu or Getrag. If asked, I'm sure there would be a
lot of finger pointing and he said/she said. What does the 'Lemon Law'
same about cases like this?
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
>So the Stillen downpipe replaces the front pre-cat - what about the
>rear one?
Still there. Has no effect on performance. Gut the rear cat in your copious
free time, or wait until you upgrade yer turbos.
>So it looks like a full replacement exhaust is gonna run me between
>$750-$1200?
Maybe $750. The Stillen is about $400 plus 30-45 min of labor to put it on,
and a custom catback, single-side exhaust (using the stock catback pipe)
is $200. We just cut into the stock catback pipe near the rear diff
and welded in two 45-deg bends to an Xlerator straight through muffler.
Actually, until you do lots of mods, the stock exhaust could stay on there. From
the cat back, it flows pretty good.
Rich/slow old poop/exhausted.>>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:07:01 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: New to modifications...
> >So the Stillen downpipe replaces the front pre-cat - what about
the
> >rear one?
>
> Still there. Has no effect on
performance. Gut the rear cat in your
> copious free time, or wait until
you upgrade yer turbos.
I do not agree here. Freeing up the exhaust - especially the precats - is
the part of the tuning that makes the rest working. So if you install a
downpipe, testpipe and cat-back with the pre-cats still in, the gain in
performance is very limited. Especially in the high rpm area. Of course
one sees a gain on the track as the weight loss is very good compared to the
stock stuff.
> Maybe $750. The Stillen is about $400 plus 30-45 min of labor to put
> it on, and a custom catback, single-side exhaust (using the
stock
> catback pipe) is $200. We just cut into the stock catback pipe
near
> the rear diff and welded in two 45-deg bends to an
Xlerator
> straight through muffler. Actually, until you do lots of mods,
the
> stock exhaust could stay on there. From the cat back, it
flows
> pretty good.
Yes and no. There is a resonator chamber in the stock exhaust that needs to
go. Also the inner diameter is too small and - as said before - the weight
is just too much. On the other hand we had a 3000GT here with 500hp
running the stock exhaust. But I'm positive that the gain with an
aftermarket one would have been more for sure.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:44:13 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
New to modifications...
While I've got my heads off having the valves done, I'm installing an ATR
downpipe and gutting my precats. Pretty easy with them off the car. I'm
curious
though, what would be the cons of not gutting the rear if you were
to put on a
Stillen DP that replaces the front precat?
Not an issue for
me as I'm gutting both but I've heard of folks running with
one and not the
other.
------------------------------
>I do not agree here. Freeing up the exhaust - especially the precats -
>is the part of the tuning that makes the rest working. So if you
>install a downpipe, testpipe and cat-back with the pre-cats still in,
>the gain in performance is very limited.
There are two problems with doing the rear cat:
1. It is a PITA -- a job
best done when the turbos are replaced. 2. You cannot go back to stock. If
you save the old exhaust, you can put it back on there to pass emissions tests
in an hour or so.
>Actually, until you do lots of mods, the stock exhaust could stay on
>there. From the cat back, it flows pretty good.
>
>Yes and
no <snip> On the other hand we had a 3000GT here with 500hp
>running the stock exhaust.
I think I said that.
We still don't know what "new to mods" has in mind. My mods keep it simple
and inexpensive. If he just wants to street race, then my way is fine. If
he wants an 800 hp fire breathing monster, then you are correct.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
I am interpreting this as the Stillen replaces the front pre-cat only and
not the rear is this correct? If so why would you want to use it? I
would think you would want to either replace both pre-cats or gut them to
improve flow. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, and if I am
right what DP will replace both pre-cats?
Thanks
Dan Labonte
>There are two problems with doing the rear cat:
1. It is a PITA -- a
job best done when the turbos are replaced. 2. You cannot go back to
stock. If you save the old exhaust, you can put it back on there to pass
emissions tests in an hour or so.
>Actually, until you do lots of mods, the stock exhaust could stay
on
>there. From the cat back, it flows pretty good.
>
>Yes and
no <snip> On the other hand we had a 3000GT here with 500hp
>running
the stock exhaust.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:59:02 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: New to modifications...
Well, since we are talking about exhaust here, I thought I would jump in
with my 2 cents....
All of the statements below are from personal experience, research and
R&D of my exhaust systems.
True dual: Although the concept seems cool, it is a complete waste. My
system came out about 45lbs lighter than stock but at a sacrifice of
noise. A single shot exhaust will work just as well and be lighter than a
true dual, sound better and cost less.
Downpipes: Before deciding on any DP read about them online.
www.3si.org is a good source for that. Just
about any down pipe out there will yield HP gains. The stock one is so poorly
made, that a monkey with a pencil could make a better one. The issues you
want to look are fitment, flexibility (see
http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114328
insert link as one line) and what problem areas they remove. The #1
problem area in the downpipe is the combination of front and rear flows in
the infamous "F-connection". All aftermarket pipes use a Y to make that
process better. The collectors they use are different, look at whom has
what. More room for flows to combine=more power. The #2 problem area is
the 2" crush-bent 90degree angle in the stock DP at the front bank. If
that part is left in place, as required by some pipes, you will be missing
out on some more gains, although the F-connection is the biggest
thing...
Cat-back: The HP gains you will get from a cat-back are negligible. Far as
flow goes, the stock cat-back is actually pretty good. The only
performance reasoning behind replacing the cat-back is weight savings. The
stock one is ULTRA heavy! Getting the lightest thing you can is the goal
there. The Borla that some seem to like is a nice looking and nice sounding
system, but it has 2 major problems. #1 Its heavy, which defeats the whole
purpose of getting a cat-back. (If you getting it for looks more power to
ya). #2 the connector flange has a 2.5" reducer ring on it which does not
need to be there. Although the rest of the pipe is 3" and they advertise it as
a 3" exhaust, it is not. That ring is right at the flange that bolts to
your test pipe/main cat and bottlenecks the flow down to 2.5".
Test Pipe: High flow cat or test pipes can help too. You reduce
backpressure in the system which help spool times. Some other people whom
make them claim 8-12HP gains. You also get rid of the very heavy "brick"
under your car. I would estimate that thing tips the scales at around
15lbs.
All in all power vs. weight is the game. Keep both in mind. The systems
that I make from downpipe to the tip are 48lbs and should yield at least
50+HP, which I think is pretty dang good. Dyno numbers will be posted once
I get my dang car running again :)
Ether way, those are my comments on the matter. By board rules I must
disclose that my view may be skewed because I make exhaust systems and
sell them via my site.
------------------------------
At 12:58 PM 1/27/03 -0700, Labonte, Dan wrote:
>I am interpreting
this as the Stillen replaces the front pre-cat only
>and not the rear is
this correct? If so why would you want to use it?
It's easier
The rear cat has little effect on anything
It can be put
back to stock easily if emission come along.
>DP will replace both pre-cats?
No such DP is available. In ALL cases, YOU gotta do the rear precat.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:26:37 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: New to modifications...
Just to add a little :
> True dual: Although the concept seems cool, it is a complete
waste.
I fully agree :-)
> Cat-back: The HP gains you will get from a cat-back are negligible.
> Far as flow goes, the stock cat-back is actually pretty good. The
only
> performance reasoning behind replacing the cat-back is
weight
> savings. The stock one is ULTRA heavy! Getting the lightest
thing
> you can is the goal there. The Borla that some seem to like is
a
> nice looking and nice sounding system, but it has 2 major
>
problems. #1 Its heavy, which defeats the whole purpose of
> getting a
cat-back. (If you getting it for looks more power to ya).
> #2 the
connector flange has a 2.5" reducer ring on it which does not
> need to
be there. Although the rest of the pipe is 3" and they
> advertise it as
a 3" exhaust, it is not. That ring is right at the
> flange that bolts to
your test pipe/main cat and bottlenecks the
> flow down to 2.5".
The Borla is lighter than the ATR dual and both HKS duals. Just look at my
SUV car after I installed the Borla. A single shot (ATR Single, HKS
Drager, Apexi N1) of course is even lighter. As the stock flow with 2 - 2
1/2" flow is already good a 3" Borla with flange (to make it fit the stock
cat !) and the additional baffles inside (to eliminate the droning) reduces it
to stock size. As 2 - 2 1/2" is already good the size is not a
problem.
> Test Pipe: High flow cat or test pipes can help too. You
reduce
> backpressure in the system which help spool times. Some
other
> people whom make them claim 8-12HP gains. You also get rid
of
> the very heavy "brick" under your
> car. I would estimate that
thing tips the scales at around 15lbs.
The gain with the pre cats still in place is nada. Nothing seen on the dyno
(96'3000GT European model) It may be a different story with larger turbos
and gutted precats of course.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:30:03 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: New to modifications...
That is plain wrong. My pipe for one bolts up to the main cat. As does ATR,
DNPerformance and a few others. My pipe is the only one to my knowledge
that gets rid of both the front precat and bolts up to the main-cat.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:47:07 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: New to modifications...
No DP on the market replaces the rear one.
The ATR does not bolt onto the main cat as it is made to line up with the
ATR exhaust. If you want to make it fit it must be cut and the flange must
clamped on it.
Keeping the stock cat with an aftermarket is not a good idea as the most DP
are 3" after the Y but the cat is 2 - 2 1/2 " ... so the flange becomes a
bottleneck. Use a high flow cat or testpipe with the same diameter like
the DP has at its end.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Sent: Monday,
January 27, 2003 9:30 PM
> That is plain wrong. My pipe for one bolts up to the main cat. As
does
> ATR, DNPerformance and a few others. My pipe is the only one to my
> knowledge that gets rid of both the front precat and bolts up to
the
> main-cat.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:24:15 -0500
From: bob atkins <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: New to modifications...
With the exception of some of you who are not specific enough (try front
pre-cat, rear pre-cat and main cat to be specific) with your terminology -
which leads to argument - I might add, It's all good discussion with
respect to Downpipes and main cats and precats
- - BUT -
what about the dreaded "check engine light".
I have a '99 with both DP O2 sensors. If I gut or eliminate the
pre-cats, won't I be saddled with the damn "check engine light"??? I
already have a gutted main cat. That big empty chamber (gutted main
cat) can't be good for exhaust flow. A DP that replaces the main cat with
a section of 3" pipe is what I'm after. I just have the "check
engine light" paranoia buyer's hesitation blues.
Downpipe is next on my list of modifications (K&N intake and HKS Turbo
exhaust are only current "horsepower" mods. Most others are handling
except for the South Bend DXD clutch. Only other "maybe mod" in my
future is a boost controller and the buyer's paranoia on that is SCCA
autocross class rules. I'm already B Street Prepared and do not want to
venture into Street Modified.
How do I avoid the "check engine light"????
Thanks in advance
Bob Atkins - g8rbob
'99 VR-4
> Well, since we are talking about exhaust here, I thought I would jump
> in with my 2 cents....
>
> All of the statements below are
from personal experience, research and
> R&D of my exhaust
systems.
. . .
> Downpipes: Before deciding on any DP read about them online.
>
www.3si.org is a good source for that. Just
about any down pipe out
> there will yield HP gains. The stock one is so
poorly made, that a
> monkey with a pencil could make a better one. The
issues you want to
> look are fitment, flexibility (see
>
http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114328
> insert link as one line) and what problem areas they remove. The #1
> problem area in the downpipe is the combination of front and rear
> flows in the infamous "F-connection". All aftermarket pipes use a Y to
> make that process better. The collectors they use are different, look
> at whom has what. More room for flows to combine=more power. The #2
> problem area is the 2" crush-bent 90degree angle in the stock DP at
> the front bank. If that part is left in place, as required by some
> pipes, you will be missing out on some more gains, although the
> F-connection is the biggest thing...
. . .
> Test Pipe: High flow cat or test pipes can help
too. You reduce
> backpressure in the system which help spool times. Some
other people
> whom make them claim 8-12HP gains. You also get rid of the
very heavy
> "brick" under your car. I would estimate that thing tips the
scales at
> around 15lbs.
>
. . .
> Ether way,
those are my comments on the matter. By board rules I must
> disclose
that my view may be skewed because I make exhaust systems and
> sell them
via my site.
>
> Tyson V.
> Ty-Speed Performance
>
www.tyspeedperformance.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:14:34 -0600
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New to modifications...
Try and find O2 simulators that actually work with our cars. I tried
and so did Trevor with no luck...
Francis
'96 RT/TT
- -----Original Message-----
From: bob atkins
[mailto:ratkins@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 5:24 PM
>How do I avoid the "check engine light"????
>Thanks in advance
>Bob Atkins - g8rbob
>'99 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:23:20 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: O2 sensor simulators
I could be wrong but the simulators that can be used at the Camaros (with
dual cats) should work on ours too.
If we know the difference the ECU is looking for we can create such a thing
by our own. Is anyone with a dual O2 sensor setup able to read the
voltages at the same time, before and after the precat ?
> Try and find O2 simulators that actually work with our cars. I
tried
> and so did Trevor with no luck...
>
> Francis
>
'96 RT/TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:35:44 -0500
From: "Wayne Bonnett" <
wayne@wbwebsol.com>
Subject: Team3S:
N/A SOHC 60k Service questions.
All,
Well, it's time for me to get my 60k service done on my 97 (SOHC) base
3000. Please bear with me with all my questions..... :)
Also, I usually compete in about 24 autocross events a year, and plan on an
open track event or 2 this year.
I've noticed that the dealer charges WAY too much for all of the items they
replace (go figure).
The dealer told me that I could bring in the parts/fluids they were going
to replace if I purchased them from somewhere else.
That brings me to my questions on what I want to take with me:
1. Spark plugs. What do you recommend I purchase? My
dealer quoted me $15 per plug!
2. Coolant. Your recommendation would be what? I live in
KY, and the winters are cold (7 degrees now), and the summers are hot and
humid (96 degrees in August). Should I just let Mitsu. use what they
have?
3. Ignition. What wires should I purchase? Remember, this
is a SOHC base, with a distributor. All the website I've seen only
carry wires for the DOHC engines.
4. Ignition. Are there alternative distributor cap and rotors
available?
5. Oil. Of course I'll bring my own oil. I currently use
Valvoline full synthetic. I was thinking of changing to RedLine
10w30. Any thoughts on that and where I can purchase it to get here
by next Tuesday?
6. Oil filter. Mitsubishi filter ok?
7. Manual transmission. I want to replace my transmission
fluid. I have the manual 5 speed (keep in mind this is a non
turbo). I want to run RedLine in here too. What do you
recommend? I seen sites that say you should use a 50/50 mixture of 2
types of fluid. Does this only apply to the VR4 transmission?
Regardless, what Redline fluid should I put in my tranny, or should I just
leave it alone?
8. Brake fluid. Should I go ahead and have them replace the
brake fluid with high performance fluid?
9. Did I miss anything?
Sorry this is so long, I just want to be sure I make the right
decisions.
Thanks for your help, and all thoughts are welcome.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:45:56 -0700
From: "Jim Floyd" <
jim_floyd7@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New to modifications...
Is it a waste because our engines are small ?
Or is it the
added weight ?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Monday, January
27, 2003 1:27 PM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: Re: Team3S: New to
modifications...
Just to add a little :
> True dual: Although the concept seems cool, it is a complete
waste.
I fully agree :-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:18:07 -0600
From: "Dan Hyde" <
danielhyde@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Damaged - Enkie Wheel - VIA 18x9JJ 42
Here is a link to a photo album. Contains a few pics of my ride and one
reasonably close shot of a wheel.
Interesting - I didn't know VIA was a standard. Now I'll have to go and
look that one up. Thanks Dan 97 VR4
>The VIA is a standard, not a model... That stamping on the wheel
>indicates it passes specification. Can you take a picture, I could
>prolly tell you which model it is. Wheel repair is always a viable
>option, and is very reliable if done
correctly.
>
>-Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:58:28 -0800
From: "Edward Vinces" <
ed@compros.com>
Subject: Team3S: Identity
kit for VR4?
I have been trying to order an "Identity Kit" for my VR4 from:
http://www.chapor.com/vr4.html
Looks like a good product, but the ORDER link on their web page does not work. I
e-mailed them twice but have not received any answers. Has anybody ordered
it? Is there another place to get it? Thank you, Ed Vinces 91 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:24:10 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: O2 sensor simulators
This is a rumor as I have not tried it (and don't need to with a '92VR4)
but putting a simple radio shack resistor on the sender wire of the O2
sensor should do the trick. All the ECU is looking for is a lower Oxygen
reading on one of them, right? I dono, just am idea.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
Sent: Monday, January
27, 2003 4:23 PM
I could be wrong but the simulators that can be used at the Camaros (with
dual cats) should work on ours too.
If we know the difference the ECU is looking for we can create such a thing
by our own. Is anyone with a dual O2 sensor setup able to read the
voltages at the same time, before and after the precat ?
> Try and find O2 simulators that actually work with our cars. I
tried
> and so did Trevor with no luck...
>
> Francis
>
'96 RT/TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:27:23 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: New to modifications...
True dual? A waste period. There is nothing that 2 pipes would do better
than one slightly larger one. And the weight will go up no matter how you
look at it. Trust me man, the "True Dual" was the first exhaust that I
made and tried to market. Although power gains, sound and looks were all
pretty good, I decided to drop the project because there was nothing that
system did that could not be done with a good downpipe and single shot
cat-back.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Floyd
Sent: Monday, January
27, 2003 3:46 PM
Is it a waste because our engines are small ?
Or is it the
added weight ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:38:58 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Identity kit for VR4?
Personally I'm not big on things like this but if you want one make a copy
of the page and take it to any sign shop that does vinyl. They'll do it
for about a third of the price.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Vinces" <
ed@compros.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27,
2003 8:58 PM
> I have been trying to order an "Identity Kit" for my VR4 from:
>
http://www.chapor.com/vr4.html Looks
like a good product, but the
> ORDER link on their web page does not
work. I e-mailed them twice but
> have not received any answers. Has
anybody ordered it? Is there
> another place to get it? Thank
you,
> Ed Vinces
> 91 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:47:09 -0800
From: "Edward Vinces" <
ed@compros.com>
Subject: Team3S: Identity
Kit
I bought my VR4 completely dechromed, no logos at all, I wanted to paste
the VR4 logo only somewhere in the back. Maybe I should buy the factory
VR4 plate instead.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:01:39 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Identity kit for VR4?
WOW that's pretty darn expensive. I know a couple people I've met at
car shows that will put those peel off graphics on your whole car for
under $100. It also says on their main webpage "COMING SOON FROM A
NEW LOCATION" so maybe they're moving or something.
But I think you could go to a vinyl printing shop and get it custom made
for less.
- -Erik
'91 Stealth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:08:30 -0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: New to modifications...
Except that to many people like myself, the Mitsubishi and Dodge stylists,
well look at many cars...dual exhaust looks better. They are
symmetrical. They are in a way traditional to performance cars. When
flames come out, they come out both sides :) and the "stereo" sound of the
exhaust when walking around the car running always sounded better to me than a
single; Supras never sounded as good as our cars, and this may be partly
why. On our cars, one is left with a gaping empty spot where the
other pipe USED to go, and that looks bad to me. Asymmetrical.
I am willing to throw the few pounds of salt over my shoulder to the Gods
of Style to keep my car looking dual exhaust for all these reasons.
I think single loses more pounds of LOOKS than it loses pounds of
WEIGHT. Who knows, someday those few pounds may mean more to me; but
my car is Ferrari beautiful to me, and not lightly do I mess with that.
Geez, look at some of the horror-story body kits out there ;) I am sure :)
that everybody castigating dual exhaust has their: unused back seats; dumb
minimally functional rear hatch window blind/cover; all the plastic trim
in back of the hatch area inside; useless purely cosmetic plastic
sideskirts running from behind the front wheels to in front of rear wheels (with
fake scoops fer gosh sake) etc...everybody has already thrown all THAT
useless (except to style, and weighing more) stuff out.
File this all under "losing useless weight even if it detracts from the
looks, to ONE extent or another; beauty is in the eye..." hehe.
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
> True dual? A
waste period. There is nothing that 2 pipes would do
> better than one
slightly larger one. And the weight will go up no
> matter how you look
at it. Trust me man, the "True Dual" was the first
> exhaust that I made
and tried to market. Although power gains, sound
> and looks were all
pretty good, I decided to drop the project
> because there was nothing
that system did that could not be
> done with a good downpipe and single
shot cat-back.
> Jim Floyd
> Is it a waste because our engines are small
?
> Or is it the added weight ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:47:33 -0500
From: Lorne Silkes <
vr4@cwia.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Identity
kit for VR4?
The graphics that Chapor sells are not cheap thin vinyl stickers. If I
remember correctly, they are made by the same company that makes the
factory badges. They are identical in quality and style of the
factory badges.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#65
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