Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, January 19
2003 Volume 02 : Number 057
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:11:54 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
My '92 VR4 has 125,000 miles on the original tranny. There has never been
any work on either it or the transfer case, that I am aware of. Aside from
a slight notch between 1st and 2nd, while shifting quickly, both the
tranny and transfer case are solid. No leaks in either. When I purchased
the car I replaced all drivetrain fluids with redline fluids and actually
the notchiness between 1st and 2nd got better. As far as I know the car
has never been raced, the original owner lived in Nevada and put almost
60,000 miles on it in the first 2 years, meaning that for the last 9 years
it has averaged less than 7500 miles per year. From all of the horror
stories that I've heard about the drivetrain in these cars I consider myself
quite lucky.
> > Maybe we should do the survey again.
> >
> > My
synchros failed at 65,000 miles.
> > No transmission abuse on my part,
but I can't speak for the
> > original owner.
> > New
replacement tranny: started leaking immediately after
> >
installation.
>
> I've had zero transmission problems at 66,000
miles. I did, however,
> shatter one of the gears in the transfer
case. The previous '94 VR4 I
> owned also had zero driveline
problems well past 60,000 miles.
>
> I'd say I'm very hard on my
cars, but I do know how to shift properly
> and have never ground the
gears (a primary cause of synchro failure).
>
> That's two
more.
------------------------------
Survey so far on a Saturday morning:
No failures:
Matt: none on 2 cars
Failures:
Rich: 65,000
Joshua: 40,000
Dennis: 60-80K (two
different cars)
Let's see, that's 6 cars accounted for, with 4 failures. Sheesh, we have
almost as many responses in an hour as the previous survey did over
several weeks. Guess our cars are getting older, eh?
Wait'll the regular crew gets to work on Monday morning.
We need
somebody better organized than me to track this on a spreadsheet or
something.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:23 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Survey time
I have just over 90k on my original transmission and it operates just like
it did when I bought the car (34k miles). That's not to say it feels
GOOD or RIGHT... the synchros are definitely worn and fast shifts cannot
be accomplished smoothly (especially 1->2). IMO it's unacceptable
for a car of this caliber, and if I didn't know that it's typical and if I
weren't afraid that Satan would make things worse, I would have taken it
in for synchro replacement eons ago. I have a set of synchros from
Jack's original deal years ago (not just the blocking rings, but all three
assemblies for all gears) and treat them like gold. Ridiculous!
*sigh*
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC) A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy) Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed:
171 mph G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph 1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
------------------------------
Just turned 83K on my 94 VR4. I'm the second owner and bought this
car specifically to race and drive hard. Driveline is still ticking
away (wait what.. where is that ticking coming from...I'll get back to
you
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:36 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: race
event
Just a reminder to them of youze who want to actually have fun with your
car --- California Speedway in Fontana March 7-8-9. 2.8 mile Grand Am
course, part oval part infield. Friday is a test and tune for race cars
and street cars --- probably lots track time on Friday [ I'll check
with someone ]. They even have air conditioned garages available for a mere $125
--- a good storage spot if we get a few folks together to share
rent.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
That would make only 78,000 more to go to cover the 91-99 production run of
Mitsubishis. We are on our way. A few more samples and we will
be able to calculate the Mean and standard deviation of tranny failures
within a 95% confidence level.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:03:11 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
Your story is my story Shawn. My 93 TT has 120k on it with the original
trans. I hate to shift in the lower gears because of the grinding
but it still runs and does not pop out of gear. I count myself
lucky.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Sent: Saturday,
January 18, 2003 10:11 AM
> My '92 VR4 has 125,000 miles on the original tranny. There has never
> been any work on either it or the transfer case, that I am aware of.
> Aside from a slight notch between 1st and 2nd, while shifting
>
quickly, both the tranny and transfer case are solid. No leaks in
>
either. When I purchased the car I replaced all drivetrain fluids
> with
redline fluids and actually the notchiness between 1st and 2nd
> got
better. As far as I know the car has never been raced, the
> original
owner lived in Nevada and put almost 60,000 miles on it in
> the first 2
years, meaning that for the last 9 years it has averaged
> less than 7500
miles per year.
> From all of the horror stories that I've heard about
the drivetrain
> in these cars I consider myself quite lucky.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:07:37 -0500
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 94 steering wheel on a 93
Hello Everyone,
My steering wheel has had it, all scuffed up and faded. I came
across one from a 94 3000gt and am wondering if it will work with my 93
airbag.
Also, does anyone know the part number for the fuel injector
harness/holder? It is the black plastic piece that connects to the
plenum.
Thanks,
Joseph
93 vr4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:08:51 -0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Survey time
But grinding is the failure of the synchro(s)! I think almost
everyone
*can* drive with the synchro(s) gone but it is the weak link.
The synchro is the whole problem, not really the entire
transmission. If you were under warranty, you would have the
transmission replaced due to the synchro(s). Of course now we can
buy the cynchro(s) but who is qualified to rip out transmissions apart and
put them back together 100% properly? Maybe Kormex, I haven't spoken
with them or whether they are buying new synchros now that they are
available.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:12:39 -0500
From:
songsay@cs.comSubject: Team3S: survey
time
I am on my third transmission, going on my fourth this summer. I race
and use it as a daily driver. The previous owner put less than 800 miles
per year on it. I on the other hand put about 15,000 per year. Perhaps
from now on it will be less, since I am getting tired of driving the
Alaskan highway. Though I might say, our cars make a 3500 mile trip just dandy.
In my opinion, the gearbox gets a 6 out of 10.
songsay
92 vr4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:20:20 -0500
From: "Walter D. Best" <
wdb039@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Survey time
Oh I guess I should add that I switched to Mobil 1 (75W-90) at about 1000
miles, in the trans, transfer and diff.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter D. Best" <
wdb039@erols.com>
Sent: Tuesday,
February 18, 2003 3:17 PM
> Add me to the Matt list, had my 92 VR-4 since it was new has 109,000
> on it now and still not one problem. Heck I am still on the OE
clutch
> too.
>
> Dave Best
> For polishing and powder
coating check out
http://gofastgoodies.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:37:12 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
I bought my '94 VR-4 with 60k miles on it. It now has 104k miles and
has always
had the hard to shift into 1st, 2nd, and occasionally 3rd -- but
ONLY when cold
outside and tranny cold. Does this mean my synchros are
going out? It almost
never does it in summer.
The "parts" for my recall repair are supposedly on their way to Satan even
now.
I usually drive normally, but of course, once in a while we have to push
the
horses just so they don't get constipated.
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:40:32 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
Maybe it's time we get together a group buy from Kormex or Getrash and get
all
our synchros replaced. Depending upon cost, I'm in.
What's this about synchros only versus all 3 assemblies?
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:02:07 -0500
From: "Walter D. Best" <
wdb039@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Survey time
I am with Matt on this one, had my 92 VR-4 since it was new has 109,000 on
it now and still not one problem. Heck I am still on the OE clutch
too.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:17:14 -0500
From: "Andre and Sylvia Cerri"
<
cerri@contractor.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 94 steering wheel on a 93
I used some black leather dye and it came up a treat - good as new, and
mine was pretty bad.
It's called Esquire Instant Coloring - $6, and I hardly used any of
it.
Andre
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Spainhour
Sent: Saturday,
January 18, 2003 3:08 PM
Hello Everyone,
My steering wheel has had it, all scuffed up and faded. I came
across one from a 94 3000gt and am wondering if it will work with my 93
airbag.
Also, does anyone know the part number for the fuel injector
harness/holder? It is the black plastic piece that connects to the
plenum.
Thanks,
Joseph
93 vr4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:18:35 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Survey time
FWIW --- now that the parts are available the parts cost is minimal but the
cost of
pulling the trans and the labor to crack the trans is where to big
dollar costs are. The transmission internals are pretty basic --- any
reputable tranny shop should be able to replace parts. That being said a
reconditioned unit from Kormex is probably still a good deal.
Jim Berry
====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:36:15 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Transmission Misery
> From: "rsaylors" <
rsaylors@swbell.net>
> > I
recently bought a 91 Stealth for my daughter. It has the 5 speed
>
> and constantly pops out of 1st gear. I took it to the
Mitsubishi
> > dealer and was told it needs a new synchronizer. I
took it to a
> > respected local mechanic who told me the same
thing. He suggested > > buying a rebuilt transmission as he
does not do rebuilding. My
> > question is, where can you find a
good, reliable source for
> > transmissions for this car.
> >
Thanks,
> > Rick
- -----------------------
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> Kormex in San
Diego area does a great job and has rebuilt units ---
> I don't have their
number but a search should turn one
up.
> Jim Berry
-
----------------------
Yes, our Search Page will probably turn up a hundred or more references to
Kormex. OR..., you can just simply look in the Team3S FAQ
Index--
In the first section - (The Basics) click the link for "Preferred Dealers -
New and Used Parts". That page lists Kormex and EastCoast for tranny
work, and oh..., maybe three HUNDRED other dealers, vendors, and parts
sources!
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm
Best,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:33:33 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Leaking Transmission - Survey Time - Reality Check
- ----- Original Message -----
> At 02:51 PM 1/17/03 -0800, Gross,
Erik wrote:
> >>Merritt wrote:>> *just kidding. Our trannies
do seem to go out at
> >>about 65,000 miles, though.
>
>
> >C'mon now, be reasonable with the blanket statements.
>
>Yeah, some people have transaxle issues around the 60K mark, but
>
>some people have problems earlier. And some people have
150,000+
> >miles on their original transaxle.> ---E.G.
From: <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
A couple of years ago, somebody on this list or 3Si or the blue light
>
list or somewhere ran a survey of folks that had tranny problems.
> 65,000
was the magic number -- the average where most synchro
> problems occurred
with 6 speed Getrags. I bet they are in the
> archives somewhere.
-
-------------------------------->
It's not an "average". It's merely a number. Like most other
'surveys', the results can be skewed to back up whatever argument is on
the agenda. Sample
numbers: Out of ~20 tranny failures reported
in the "survey", ~10 failures happened at ~65k miles, so that must mean
50% fail around 65k, right? WRONG.
20 failures were reported in the survey. ~1000 were not. The 10
which failed at 65k represent roughly ONE percent of our members (Team3S
& Team3S Racers) who were given the "survey". OK..., so that's
roughly TWO percent of our members who have Getrags. Statistically, this
number is unimportant, until you multiply the number of reported failures
at 65,000 miles by TEN!... (20% failure rate is the "magic number"
at which statisticians wake up and say, "Duh..., we might have a
problem...").
Getrags are troublesome to more than a normal number of members *who drive
these cars hard*. Some of us don't even KNOW we're driving them
hard. And some of us *do* know. That more than an expected
number of Getrags fail at
*some* point IS an issue. BUT... You've
got to put things in perspective-- We discuss problems on this list.
We don't discuss NOT having problems. And the only reason it's such a
noticeable issue to us is that we have had to resort to outsourcing with
outfits like Kormex because of the lack of support from Mitsubishi when a
Getrag goes bad.
Most owners with Getrags will NEVER have a problem, but there IS a
greater-than-normal chance of a failure relative to what we have seen with
other high-performance cars. That's the ONLY fact we can state with
certainty. It's unfair to categorize the Getrag issue as a "given" at 65k
(or any other mileage point) and scare the pants off the vast majority of
3S/Getrag owners who will never, *ever* have the problem.
Do the math, dammit! Include the other folks on other lists...
Maybe 2000 owners, total? Maybe 50% with turbos? So let's call
it 1000 3S/Getrag owners whom we can reach. Now..., I *challenge*
you to find even 200 of them who have had transmission failures. Which
would be 20%. If you can, it would still be an *awful* number.
But it would still be MILES away from a "certainty"!!!
If you take a car with this much power (even stock), and you (or a
service
tech?) grind the gears a few times, the life of that tranny is
shortened. Gee..., ya think? If you add HP mods and grind it, that's
even more stress. In our case, ET was driving our Stealth, screaming up
the straight as she passed a Porsche at Laguna Seca, and she speed-shifted to
4th right in front of the flagman..., er..., I mean she *almost* shifted
to 4th..., and you could hear the gears grind even over the sound of the
straight-pipes Daytona that was on the straight. Unfortunately, I
even got it on film (and painfully accurate audio), but I didn't get a shot
of all the faces around me with that "screwed up" look that said
"OUCH!". ALL of us knew that *probably* meant a new tranny pretty
soon... But I was SURE of it when it was my run, and on the same
straight, at the same spot, I missed 4th too! Those DAMN
transmissions...! ;-)
- --Forrest
(...holstering his silver slide rule...)
"The Lottery is
for people who are bad at math!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:53:02 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Survey time
For Rich's sanity sake of keeping track of all this and to save the list
from the chatter - here is a quick link. I'll update it when I get
updates. Email me your name, car year, car model, miles at time of
trouble or current miles and a note stating no troubles or if it is
showing wear.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
>Do the math, dammit! Include the other folks on other
lists... Maybe
>2000 owners, total? Maybe 50% with
turbos? So let's call it 1000
>3S/Getrag owners >whom we can
reach. Now..., I *challenge* you to find
>even 200 of them who
>have had transmission failures. Which would be
>20%.
>
The only thing wrong with your argument is that 90
percent of the people on this list are lurkers and do not post, whether
their trannies are good or bad. The ones who post are the experts,
wizards, helpful souls, people with questions and, of course, loudmouths
and troublemakers like me.
So you have maybe 100 active posters at any given time. If 20 of those
report tranny problems, there's your 20%. We're 1/3 of the way to that
goal right now, and it's still Saturday.
And let's not just call them tranny FAILURES, as in a complete breakdown. I
suspect there are dozens of people driving around hearing their trannies
grind going into 2nd and don't give it a second thought. They probably
think it's normal. IMHO, if the tranny GRINDS, it has a synchro failure,
and should be reported to the survey as such.
Here's my test: Get the car rolling at 10-15 mph or so, push the
clutch all the way in, and execute a FAST 1-2 or 3-2 shift. Not a drag
racing speed shift, not a full power shift...just a FAST shift. If you
hear a grind, it's a bad synchro. That's all it took to convince the
service manager, mechanic and warranty rep that mine was bad.
I also think that a leaky tranny is a problem, although not as severe as a
bad synchro.
Folks, please send a brief note to Flash with name, car year, car model,
miles at time of trouble, or current miles and a note stating no troubles
or if it is showing wear. Go to:
and follow the directions.
Please don't respond to this list.
We can draw statistical results from THE PEOPLE WHO POST AN ANSWER to the
question.
If half of those who respond have synchro problems and
half don't, then 50% of our trannies fail. So far, half the people who
have responded had failures (7 of 14 cars)
If most of the failures occur at around 65,000 miles, that's significant.
Right now, the average appears to be 50,000 miles.
Of course it ain't 100% accurate, but it's a pretty good indicator that I'm
right about our transmissions. Boy, it sure would be nice to be right
about something for a change.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:37:08 -0800
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 1997 VR-4 On eBay
- -Brad
1997 3000GT VR-4
1991 Galant VR-4 #1253/2000
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:26:56 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
The real question is why we should all be forced to look at tranny problems
at all. I have had too many cars and trucks to think about. VW's, Chevy's,
BMW's, Datsuns, etc. Most of them I bought with over a 100k and sold with
over 300k on them. Not one of them ever had a bad tranny. Many needed
clutches, brakes, alternators, radiators, etc, but NONE had a trans that went
bad. For the price 3s sold for the trans should never go bad without
really hard use. I will bet that most on the list don't really shift hard.
Even the track people tend to shift carefully.
------------------------------
Andrew, meet cold hard reality. :)
No..not a slam. Just that not all manufacturers place reliability at
the same level..and then rarely between models within the same
company.
I've got this purty new Z06..with about what, 4-5 years of model history
under it now, and at 2600mi my first expected trip to the dealer comes
up.
Gas gauge goes dead. reboot the car..all is fine..but its picky for
the next tank of gas.
You'd think a _$60,000_ car wouldn't have this $5 problem..but, it
does.
Its just unique to the C5..no other GM product has the issue.
Vr4s get to enjoy the tranny issue.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:28:50 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
I agree Jeff. a 60k car should not have a five dollar problem. But a 45k
car should not have a 2-3k problem either and 2-3k with the car out of
commission for weeks at a dealer is a little different than a $5 problem
quickly resolved. Believe me, I have no problem with regular maintenance
issues. When major parts of the car don't work right I think it is important
to know. If I had known the tranny's on our cars were so subject to going
into the dumper I would have paid less for the car, or maybe not bought
one at all. Just my thoughts.
Have a great Sunday
Andy
------------------------------
100% agreed. remember I've had two of em..and had to replace two of
em as well.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:56:48 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
And Getrash used to have such a fine reputation. Probably why Mitsu
went with
them for the design(?) and production(?). I suspect very
substandard metals in
our transmissions. Did someone try to save a
nickel per car??? And then this
horsepuckey about "can't replace
individual parts" in the tranny? You KNOW that
that's greed
talking.
AI Nut
------------------------------
I'm fairly new to the board here but wanted to give you the details on my
tranny. Thanks for all of the insightful dialog by the way!
I have a bone stock 91 VR4 with 77K on it. The tranny shifts great as
long as you don't try to be real quick about it. It never grinds
however. When the weather is cold, like it is now in MD, it actually
is a little harder to move the shifter until the trans and fluid warm up.
The only problem I have with the car right now is that the Tach dies when I
shift, clutch depressed, and the rear defroster goes on and off. It
happens at idle, or up to speed. Is the clutch switch providing some
kind of bizarre path to ground or what. It only happens on the way
down. When the clutch is fully depressed everything works fine. I
tired to see if this problem has been listed before but came up
empty.
Thanks for all of the great info,
Shawn
1991 Jamaican Blue Metallic VR4 (Bone Stock)
------------------------------
Might be a momentary contact with the wiring harness by one of the
moving parts in the clutch pedal assy. If the harness has gotten pulled
out of position the clutch pedal may have worn thru the wire insulation
and is making contact as it moves past the harness. At least, that would
explain the defogger. The ground for the tach is through that part of
the harness but the signal wiring is through the upper harness... might
be worth checking though.
Beyond that I don't see anything in common between the tach and the
clutch/defog circuits.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:05:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Survey time
My 92 VR4 has 98500 mi. with the original
transmission. 1-2 synchros are
bad but still running.
Chunk noise when shifting even from neutral to
1st
gear. Anthony
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:45:19 -0500
From: "Ryan Coffren" <
rcoffren@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: survey time
'93 VR-4, 120K+
The only problem I have is my 5th gear synchro is
gone.
Previous owner put a lot of highway miles on it, but it's the Boston suburb
area, so there is plenty of stop-and-go traffic to put the tranny through
it's paces.
Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:05:14 -0700
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: survey time
'93 VR-4 97K
When I bought the car 5,000 miles ago the 2nd and 3rd gear
ratios were crunching going in, you could still go into gear, but it was
difficult and made a crunching noise. Has Mitsu replace them once I bought
the car. Month or so after that (Once the temporary warranty expired) the
2nd gear synchro started going bad. I can't shift into second faster then
40 MPH or it grinds horribly, under 40 mph it crunches going in but still
shifts fine. Donald Ashby '93 3000GT VR-4 "Don't drink and park, accidents
cause people!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:03:11 -0500
From: "Bedrock" <
bedrock@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
My 91 stock is sleeping right now but when awake she has the original
transmission w/Red Line and it too hits the synchro stop on the way into 1
- 2 if its shifted slow, if fast it will go in no problem.
Bob
White/Red 91 RT/TT, Original at 137,000+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:21:38 -0600
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Survey time
> Oh I guess I should add that I switched to Mobil 1 (75W-90) at about
> 1000 miles, in the trans, transfer and diff.
>
> Dave
Best
Swap that out for either Redline MTL/MT-90 or BG Synchroshift II. The
Mobil 1 synthetic eats away at the brass in the synchros. Certainly
not something you want to occur. (Or at least it did when I talked
with Mobil a while ago - maybe they changed the formula?)
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:36:27 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Survey time
There is a hiccup in the DNS for my personal website and they are
responding slowly so the Getrag survey site has been moved to my Team3S
site.
Please submit a survey for both good and bad trannies.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#57
**************************************