Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, January 16 2003 Volume
02 : Number 054
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:55:52 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Help on motor mounts
I have the 3SX mounts on my car [ well, the rear mount is still on my
workbench ] and have no problems with their use. At idle the car has a
little of that motorcycle feel --- a little rumble in the seat of the
pants. While underway the feeling pretty much goes away though. The rear
mount is a real PITA to change hence its location on my workbench rather
than the car --- I'll be installing my spare motor soon so I'll install it
at that time.
Many of the things that I've changed, suspension, gutted cats, sway bars,
motor mounts, roll bar etc.etc. tend to move my ride to the harder edged
feel of a race car and not the nice civil touring car that it was at
birth. While you're not likely to find the change unbearable it's one more
step towards that edgy race car feel. I just got back from Colorado and
the thought of driving my car there brings tears to my eyes --- hell I was
bottoming out the suspension on a rented Pontiac Grand Prix [ currently a
real American mushbox ]. I'd have spinal damage in my car.
Jim Berry
========================================================
> Looks like I need motor mounts.
>
> Stock or 3SX? I run
the car on open tracks.
> Any good deals around these days?
> What's
the price for stockers?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:49:41 -0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Help Cold=starts/runs great, Warm=intermittent starts/dies or
starts+run to 2K and returns to normal
Rick...
I'm not replying privately because I share this symptom and hope that
someone can shed some light. It got significantly worse after I upgraded
from 560cc injectors to 720cc injectors so my sense is that there's
"excess" fuel in the cylinders when the car has been sitting for a short period
of time, where it turns over perfectly after sitting overnight. I'm also
having trouble with getting my ARC2 adjusting on the rich setting, it's
all the way down but still runs full rich on the Split Second meter under
WOT. I also have my plug gap pretty tight which I think Jack T (or
someone) recently commented on causing poor idle or misses at certain
rpms. At any rate, my mods are in my signature line, you might share yours
also, since all this "tinkering" we've done affects how each car runs (we
can only expect the factory ECU to compensate for some amount of
modification).
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/custom K&N intake, bored and polished
throttle body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 720cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, ARC2/MAF
fuel controller, Split Second A/F meter, GReddy PRofec A boost controller,
Apex EGT & boost gauges, GReddy turbo timer, HKS SBOV, custom
intercoolers, trunk mounted Optima Red Top, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double
platinum plugs gapped at .032", ACT 2800 lb pressure plate, Broward six
puck racing disc, Centerforce throwout bearing, ATR downpipe and test
pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, Stillen cross-drilled rotors, Porterfield R4
race pads, SS brake lines, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, strut tower bars,
anti-sway bars, 245/40-18 Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots on one set of factory
chrome wheels, 265/35-18 Toyo Proxies on another set of factory chrome
wheels)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rick Pierce
[mailto:piercera@pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:17
AM
Hi Everyone,
This one is real puzzling. Here is the detailed version:
92 Dodge
TT
Old: always started and ran normally cold, warm, and hot
Now: When Cold it starts and runs like normal, but when warm (after some
amount of time?) when I shut it off and go to restart it, sometimes it
fires and then dies. If the minute it fires, you take the rpm up to like
2K for a couple of seconds, and let off, it idles fine and runs great
(like it never had the start problem). If you keep on trying to start it
normally without using the accelerator pedal trick, it seems to make it
more difficult to get it going to the higher rpm, but it still will run
normally once it gets there and seems to "clear" itself (lame I know).
I have swapped ECUs (with my VR-4's) and there is no difference, (both ECUs
have already had the caps changed out), so it isn't that. There is no CE
light, and the front three plugs look great. I've searched Team3S and 3Si
and found no similar problem description. I have the service manuals and
have been pouring through the MFI section - and on page 13A-25 there is a page
titled "check chart classified by problem symptoms" and the second column
is titled "Fires up and Dies, Hard Starting" - which sure sounds like my
problem under warm/hot conditions, I am following that list, but also am
checking anything I can think of. I was never trained in fuel injection, so I'm
book learning - so this is a real tough one.
Here's what I've checked/tried:
Swapped ECUs - same
FPR Solenoid Operation and Electronically
checks
Fuel Pump works fine (as it runs great once it gets going) - don't
have a fuel pressure gauge setup so I then did the: Fuel pump relay bypass
(eliminates the resistor on idle so voltage increase to pump at idle) -
thanks Jeff Lucius for all the great info Changed out the Fuel Filter (to
eliminate this from being a potential pressure restriction) Cleaned the
ISC (tested out fine electronically BTW), Cleaned the BIS screw (pretty
dirty) and reset idle.
I thought I was making progress, but it happened late yesterday again. God,
I hate intermittent problems - Starts fine goes to about 1300 to get going
then drops to idle, it normally does this to about 700-800 but it keeps
going to about 500 and you can tell it's not happy there, so it drops to
zero - then it is easy to get idling using the accelerator, but it is tough to
get it going (like it's loaded up) once you do it's ok. The front plugs
still show no sign of being flooded. Even after this it runs like it
never had the problem.
Anyone have any ideas please e-mail me directly too at
piercera@pacbell.net - the car drives
great and operates fine except for this intermittent warm start
problem. Thanks for all your help
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:02:45 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
Erik,
So now you have REAL signals for oil temp, oil press, water temp, and fuel
pressure. This is great! What was your gauge solution? I guess I can
imaging adding another two gauges to my a-pillar mount so I have boost
press, oil press, and either oil temp or water temp (which one would you
pick?) What about the others? Are you contemplating replacing
the stock gauges?
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik
[mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:54 PM
I finally got a chance to make a web page for my sensor installation
pictures.
Here are the direct links to the Oil Pressure & Temperature, Water
Temperature, and Fuel Pressure Sensor installation web pages:
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:16:08 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Help Cold=starts/runs great, Warm=intermittent starts/dies or starts+run
to 2K and returns to normal
Hi Rick:
Have you checked the throttle position sensor. The wiper inside the thing
can be heat sensitive or cold sensitive. I don't know about the sensors in
3s cars but the one in my BMW could not be repaired by a service
department or by me. When I took it apart it had to be chopped to the
point that I could not put it back together. Just a thought.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:33:28 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and Instructions
Chuck,
Oil pressure is more important than water anything (pressure
or temperature). I am waiting until I drain the oil to plumb a
thermocouple into the oil drain pan instead of where Erik has it. I
have water temp and boost now and have all the hardware for the oil temp but
just need to get it installed. I still need the oil pressure gauge though
but I'll get that before a track day I imagine.
My
thoughts were to put them temporarily on the A-pillar until I get three gauges
that I want in the center pod area. I chose the Autometer Z-Series
gauges as they are as close to my stock gauges as I could find (black
face, red needle, white numbers, amber at night) so even on the A-pillar
they look quite nice. I have pictures if you want to see.
I anticipate possibly moving the A-pillar gauge since the fattest part of the
gauge pod is right next to the steering wheel and my knuckles hit it
sometimes. If I move it up 4" or so then the skinniest part of the
gauge pod is at the steering wheel and allows clearance (I can't remember
if the wheel is up all the way but with a race seat there I can drop the
steering wheel down some so this does not bother me at the current
time). The way I have the first dual A-pillar gauge pod situated
(shoved as far down between the A-pillar and the dash as
possible) there is
room for another dual gauge pod on the same A-pillar. That is good because I
can see four gauges that I would like to monitor instead of three (boost,
water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure). Time will tell.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent:
Wednesday, January 15, 2003 13:03
So now you have REAL signals for oil temp, oil press, water temp, and fuel
pressure. This is great! What was your gauge solution? I guess I can
imaging adding another two gauges to my a-pillar mount so I have boost
press, oil press, and either oil temp or water temp (which one would you
pick?) What about the others? Are you contemplating replacing
the stock gauges?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:36:40 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
Several people have e-mailed me privately with similar questions, so I'll
just post to the list to answer some of them :-)
> What kind of gauges are they?
They're 60mm gauges made by Defi (
http://www.defi-shop.com/), specifically
the BF series with the Control Unit II. You can read all about them
on the web page - they're pretty slick with 3 min of recording/playback
time, peak hold, warning, optional external warning light, separate
night/day dim settings, and best of all: all the sensors plug into
the control unit, and then there's ONE wire that comes out of the control
unit and connects to all the gauges in a daisy chain fashion. That
last feature is worth its weight in gold if you have several gauges. I had
GReddy gauges before - I know :-) And I bought the gauges from Gary at
German Autowerks
(
http://www.gruppe-s.com/) - they had the
best prices I could find last year when I bought them.
> Where am I mounting the gauges?
Currently, I have a 3x60 A-pillar, a 4x60 center dash pod, and plan to
replace the three stock gauges in the center part of the dash. I
have enough gauges (10) to fill all those spots, but I haven't decided
whether the 4x60 pod will be a permanent fixture or will be only for
tuning. I'm thinking that I may put the A/F gauges, the front EGT
gauge, and the 60mm tach in the 4x60 pod and have it be removable.
The main issue there is that I want to find a clean way to install the pod
if I put it in there permanently. Comments in this area are welcome as I
haven't decided exactly how things will be installed. There will, of
course, be a web page devoted to the gauge unit installation and pictures
of the final product when I get that done :-)
BTW, I know having a 60mm tach seems a little ricey, but it has record and
playback just like the other 6 gauges, and having an RPM reference when
looking at playback data is very useful, especially since I have a '95
with no stock datalogging capabilities.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:45:23 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
Erik the way my set up is going to be (if my apex i EL meter System gauges
ever arrive, they are very similar to the Defi only they have the indiglo
back lighting) I was going to have front egt, rear egt, and fuel
pressure on the A pillar. Remove the center gauges and replace them with
water temp, oil pressure and a real boost gauge. The glove box was
going to contain oil temp and water pressure.
All that combined with a pocket logger and a wideband 02 logger (yes 2 palm
pilots in the car) I figure all bases are covered.....
Russ F
CT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:51:54 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
> So now you have REAL signals for oil temp, oil press, water
>
temp, and fuel pressure. This is great! What was your gauge
>
solution? I guess I can imaging adding another two gauges to
> my
a-pillar mount so I have boost press, oil press, and
> either oil temp or
water temp (which one would you pick?)
> What about the
others? Are you contemplating replacing the
> stock gauges?
Yep, the stock gauges are going in a box in my garage along with all the
other "useless" stock items that don't belong in my car :-) Because
I'm a data junkie, I have the following aftermarket gauges:
Manifold Pressure/Vacuum (Defi)
Water Temp (Defi)
Oil Temp
(Defi)
Oil Pressure (Defi)
Fuel Pressure (Defi)
Tachometer
(Defi)
Exhaust Gas Temp - front (Defi)
Exhaust Gas Temp - rear
(GReddy)
Air/Fuel Ratio - front (GReddy)
Air/Fuel Ratio - rear
(GReddy)
All the sensors are installed and working; the Defi control unit is
installed with working record/playback and warning functions; and the
GReddy gauges are installed on the A-pillar. The Defi gauges are
sitting on a shelf and awaiting the pulling of the dash to install them.
Chuck, for your situation, you could install boost/oiltemp/watertemp in
your A-pillar and just install the oil pressure *sensor* (available
separately). You could configure the warning setting for the oil pressure
sensor so it'd beep at you whenever it went below X psi, and then you'd
have actual gauges for the other stuff. That is of course if you
don't want to monitor your EGTs... do you?
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:01:00 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and Instructions
Also worth noting is the combination gauges from 3SX Performance (formerly
something else but then a small merger occurred). I am secretly
waiting to have water temp and oil temp on the same gauge (since they are
about the same temps) and a boost gauge and an oil pressure. This makes
three and fills the stock center gauge pod.
If everything falls correctly then the dual EGT gauge is another good
buy.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik
Sent: Wednesday,
January 15, 2003 13:52
Chuck, for your situation, you could install boost/oiltemp/watertemp in
your A-pillar and just install the oil pressure *sensor* (available
separately). You could configure the warning setting for the oil pressure
sensor so it'd beep at you whenever it went below X psi, and then you'd
have actual gauges for the other stuff. That is of course if you
don't want to monitor your EGTs... do you?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:59:35 -0600
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
Russ,
Hey, I just did the Apex gauges in my car, 2x EGT, Water Temp, Oil Press
and Boost. Let me know if you have any questions when you get
them.
Francis
'96 RT/TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:59:12 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Help Cold=starts/runs great, Warm=intermittent starts/dies or starts+run
to 2K and returns to normal
Have you checked the throttle position sensor. The wiper inside the thing
can be heat sensitive or cold sensitive. I don't know about the sensors in
3s cars but the one in my BMW could not be repaired by a service
department or by me. When I took it apart it had to be chopped to the
point that I could not put it back together. Just a thought.
A few more thoughts. The wiper inside the position sensor was made of
carbon. I once had a problem where my Saab ran like hell - to the point of
stalling - but only after it warmed up. The problem was finally traced to
bad carbon core plug wires. The carbon had become heat sensitive. When
cold it conducted fine. When hot it did not. Since the wiper in the
position sensor probably has carbon in its path somewhere it seems the
theory might transfer over. If you have a known good sensor you might try
swapping it and seeing if the problem goes away.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:49 AM
> Rick...
>
> I'm not replying privately because I share
this symptom and hope that
> someone can shed some light. It got
significantly worse after I
> upgraded from 560cc injectors to 720cc
injectors so my sense is that
> there's "excess" fuel in the cylinders
when the car has been sitting
> for a short period of time, where it
turns over perfectly after
> sitting overnight. I'm also having trouble
with getting my ARC2
> adjusting on the rich setting, it's all the way
down but still runs
> full rich on the Split Second meter under WOT. I
also have my plug gap
> pretty tight which I think Jack T (or someone)
recently commented on
> causing poor idle or misses at certain rpms. At
any rate, my mods are
> in my signature line, you might share yours also,
since all this
> "tinkering" we've done affects how each car runs (we can
only expect
> the factory ECU to compensate for some amount of
modification).
>
> Looking forward...Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:16:01 -0800
From: Rick Pierce <
piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Help Cold=starts/runs great, Warm=intermittent starts/dies or starts+run
to 2K and returns to normal
Hi Chris/Everyone
Car is bone Stock (it's not my VR-4), so that is why it is especially
troubling. I do think it could be a leaky injector (causing fuel
pressure) to drop - so I am trying the easy way first - a can of Techron
to clean the system - BTW I had cleaned the T/B when I put the engine in and
it still looks perfect.
Thanks, Rick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:44:11 -0600
From: "William Jeffrey Crabtree"
<
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Help on motor mounts
I just received my replacement mounts from 3SX today......obviously I
cannot tell you how well they work. The polyurethane mounts are
supposed to last longer, but the rub is that they transmit more
vibration. The dealer gets about $100 each for the
four....RIDICULOUS!!
- -Jeff Crabtree
Getting ever closer..............
Looks like I need motor mounts.
Should I replace all four? I can see that the top front one is bad, but I
can't tell with the rest. Evidence indicates that the motor is moving
around pretty good. I have 80,000 miles...do yez think all four are
bad?
Stock or 3SX? I run the car on open tracks.
Any good deals around these
days?
What's the price for stockers?
All advice welcome.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Jeff,
For us new guys can you describe the symptoms/issues you had that
lead to the replacement of the motor mounts, so we know what to watch
for.
Thanks
Dan Labonte
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:16:44 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Mystery hose?
I have taken pictures of this hose hanging on the drivers side towards the
back of the engine compartment. I don't know where it goes, and I
first noticed it after I got the 60k done at a shop(it might have been
disconnected before, just didn't notice it???).
Does anyone know where it's supposed to go, or maybe it's something extra I
don't need?
The car is a 91 Stealth Base SOHC with A/C.
Thanks,
- -Erik
'91 Stealth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:45:59 -0800 (PST)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Mystery hose?
does this picture from Erik Gross help?
Looks like the hose goes somewhere under the cruise
control.
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:13:57 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Mystery hose?
Dang, Glenn - you beat me to it... an on my own website no less :-)
Yeah, it's the vacuum line to the cruise control actuator. I don't
know the details of how it works or why the CC needs a vacuum line, but
perhaps someone else can explain?
In any case, there's a nipple on the cruise control box that the line
connects to.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:32:29 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
I guess I am too ignorant to want to know what my exhaust gas temperatures
are.
I am interested in having a real display of oil pressure, and only a little
less interested in oil temperature assuming I have a good display of
coolant temperature. I'm sort of a minimalist. I'm also unsure
how much data I can pay attention to while driving. Basically I am looking
for enough information to make an intelligent decision about going into
pits early, and whether or not to drive the car home.
So the sending units you showed are specific to the particular control box
which has all the datalogging, memory and playback capabilities? I'm
also not really interested in replacing the tach - the stock one seems
more than adequate for what I am doing.
Chuck Willis
Chuck, for your situation, you could install boost/oiltemp/watertemp in
your A-pillar and just install the oil pressure *sensor* (available
separately). You could configure the warning setting for the oil pressure
sensor so it'd beep at you whenever it went below X psi, and then you'd
have actual gauges for the other stuff. That is of course if you
don't want to monitor your EGTs... do you?
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:01:48 -0800
From: Donald Weberg <
Dweberg@Stillen.com>
Subject:
Team3S: AP Brake Group Buy
Hey guys...I'm working on getting a hold of the spec sheet and profile for
the AP Racing Big Brake kit so that you can see what kind of fitment is
needed on your 3kGT/Stealth.
I hope that Terry Henderson has been able to help all of you, but remember,
if I can help, let me know.
Don Weberg
Marketing Coordinator
STILLEN / Brake-Pros
714.540.5566
x156
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:00:00 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Various Gauge Sending Unit Installation Pictures and
Instructions
> Basically I am looking for enough information to
> make an
intelligent decision about going into pits
> early, and whether or not to
drive the car home.
Good point... that's exactly why I'm thinking of not permanently
installing the 4x60 dash pod. I don't want to be blinded by too many
gauges or be distracted by looking at the gauges while driving and end up
in a concrete wall.... again. (couldn't resist) :D
> So the sending units you showed are specific to the
> particular
control box which has all the datalogging, memory
> and playback
capabilities?
Yes, but... the Defi sending units are almost exactly the same as the
GReddy units, and the thread dimensions are exactly the same for those 4
sensors (boost has a little different shaped *nipple* <g>
<--- That's for you, Chuck!). They even use some of the same wiring
harnesses. Thus you could use my instructions for GReddy gauges,
too. One other thing is that you don't have to buy the full set of
Defi gauges; you can just buy the few that you want and they'll work just
fine. The control unit is about $100, but you only buy that once -
that's why it gets to be a better value with more gauges...
> I'm also not really interested in replacing the tach
> - the
stock one seems more than adequate for what I am doing.
Yeah, if it weren't for the datalogging, I wouldn't get the tach, either.
My stock one does read 100-200RPM low, so that's a little unnerving
sometimes.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:34:06 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need a 99 front bumper
Does somebody have a list of ALL Mitsu parts to be ordered for the 99
conversion ? I'm at least interested in the headlights :-))
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:55:23 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Need a 99 front bumper
under body and lighting.
A word of caution though - I put a '99 bumper
on my '95 vr4 and kept the old headlights. It worked in that direction.
But from the looks of it, it won't work the other way (pre '99 bumper and
'99 headlights). The reason is that the older bumper curves upward and
inward a little as it goes around the corner, and the '99 doesn't. There's
some space between my headlights and bumper on both sides. In my case it
looks sweet, and I think I'll just keep it that way, but I would check
first to see if it works with other bumpers.
Alex.
'95 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:59:44 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need a 99 front bumper
Yes, yes, I know this link, but it doesn't make a lot sense to me to order
the stuff from the US when I have the Mitsubishi offices just 5 Minutes
away. Unfortunately they don't have any other than EU CAPS so they don't
know this bumper and the MD numbers. 3sx offers the parts without giving
the Mitsu numbers, so what I need is this list with all numbers to fax them to
Mitsu for ordering in Japan.
Yes, I also found that out regarding light and bumper. But I really liked
the bubbled lights and it would make the car (probably) the only one in
Europe)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
January 15, 2003 11:55 PM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:09:40 -0800
From: "eK2mfg" <
eK2mfg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Help on motor mounts
You can buy the poly-whateveritis for about 5 bucks an inch. 4" diameter
and then just cut it to length...make sure the hole is in the right spot
for motor fitment and then prey you can do what 3sx does on the first
try.
bobk.
But it is very cheep plastic to purchase if you know where to buy it :) and
it should actually be molded into place rather cut and pressed in.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:20:22 -0800
From: " William Crabtree"<
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: motor mounts/flame
Well,
First of all, I'd like to say that if I offended anyone by suggesting that
$400 + for the mounts from the dealer is outrageous, well, sorry.
That's $400+ for the parts only. Parts that wore out quickly in the
first place.
+ I've never ever whined about having to spend money to have something
done. I just simply learn to do it myself and/or stockpile the cash
so that I can pay to have it done. Most of the time, I do it myself
because nobody cares about my car like I do. Period. That's why my
car has sat for 4 years now. So I'd like to apologize to for
starting a flame, if indeed it was my fault. I agree: Do it
yourself or pay the consequences.
OK...now....what lead me to think that mine were worn out?
Well...when I pulled my motor out of the car, I discovered that the lower
rear mount was literally rotting and falling apart. If you want to
see what mine looked like, go to
www.3sxperformance.com and look at the
pictures that he's got at the top of the page under "motor mounts".
In my search for a suitable USED replacement part, I found that this was a
VERY common problem because finding lower motor mounts that are used
and good condition is nearly impossible.
Usually the one closest to the firewall is the worst. This is likely
caused due to the absorption of a lot of torque every time you take off
from a stop(I think....remembering my car running 4 years ago......that
the motor flexes that way when you throttle up). The lower front mount
was cracked severely and wasn't worth leaving in the car. It didn't
cost me that much more to replace all 4 mounts than it was going to just
replace those two. So I just went for all 4.
My car had MANY problems this was just one of them. I couldn't give
you a list of symptoms that might exist from a bad/disintegrating mount
except that I might suggest, as Geoff Mohler did, that your motor might
"move around" alot when you rev it. Best of luck to your knuckles if
you're replacing the rear mount with the motor in the car...I understand
it's a B!TCH.
Humbly and Poorly,
- -Jeff Crabtree
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:40:17 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Mystery hose?
Well now... THAT would explain why the cruise control doesn't
work.
Goodie.... I am gonna kill two birds with one hose!!!
Thanks for the expertise guys.
(I'll let you know if it fixes the
CC)
- -Erik
'91 Stealth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:34:13 -0500
From: joe p <
jpriceiv@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: strange thumping
This is my first post and am no mechanic by far.
I have a '97 3000GT base, manual trans, with a little over 100,000 miles. I
live in jersey and the weather is extremely cold. I did not warm up my car
first. Tonight I was driving home and I felt this thumping or bumping
coming from my car. At first I though it was little bumps in the pavement
but the more I drove I still felt it. I felt it all the way, about 5 miles. It
seems to only happen when I am over about 3000 rpm's in any gear. When
it's in neutral and I rev the engine, I do not feel or hear anything out
of the ordinary. The thumping seems to be coming from directly under the
hood and rattles the whole car. I can not pinpoint it exactly because I can only
feel this when I am actually driving. Has anyone has ever experienced this
problem or anything like it before and know what it may be? I am due for
an oil change in about 1,000 miles. My clutch was just replaced about 6
months ago. I really don't know what else to say but HELP!!! I will be happy to
provide any answers (that I can) to any questions, on or off the list.
Thanks.
Joe P4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:44:04 -0600
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: motor
mounts/flame
One great symptom is definitely your motor moving around a lot, or maybe
some clunks when you hit the gas. Another symptom? If some of your vacuum
tubes seem to come off a lot, it's probably because the motor is moving
around so much they get pulled off, that's what mine
does...
-b
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:34:39 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: strange thumping
When that happened to me, turned out the wheel bearings on the passenger
side
front had gone south. About $100 for the parts, and $100 for
labor at a regular
shop (not Satan.)
HTH,
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:12:06 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S:WAS driveline play NOW Tranny mount
So what if you are still getting driveline clunking noises and you have all
new 3SX motor and tranny solid poly mounts? It's not the mounts in my car,
and I get the exact same problems, while in gear if you let off and
get back on gas it clunks, if you change direction (forward to reverse or
vice versa) you also get a clunk, and sometimes when shifting under
acceleration.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Sent:
Monday, January 13, 2003 2:19 PM
> Truthfully if you drive our cars hard at all regularly or your mounts
> have high mileage I would at least check them for wear and I would
> also check the > tranny bolt holes for wear anytime you change the
clutch as a
> precaution.......
>
> Just my humble opinion, I
have a few more since I have completely torn
> down my car but I will
share them as the topics come up.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:13:49 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: driveline play - still there
Which bolts are you talking about Geoff?
> Ya..check bolts. I lost the rear MM bolt once..would hammer the
> firewall on launches *heh*
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:15:27 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: driveline play - still there
Would it be as simple as leaving the car in gear on the ground and
unbolting the driveshaft and testing for freeplay in each of the driveline
components??? (Rear diff, then driveline, then output shaft?) If so how
hard is it to remove the driveline?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Sent: Monday,
January 13, 2003 3:15 PM
> > The car now has 190,000 miles. Like I said before,
> >
the TC has 30k. But the rear diff still has all
> > the 190k! That's
what makes me think the rear
> > diff is the problem.
>
>
Then why would you swap out the driveshaft? Did it have bad
joints?
>
> Should've measured the rotational play in the rear diff
before you
> connected your new driveshaft to see if it is within
spec.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:20:17 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Help!!! Heavy Vibration under load...
I also have a slight vibration that seems to go along with moderate to
heavy acceleration, but again I have solid 3SX poly motor & Tranny
mounts, so I suspect driveline as with my clunking.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "anscray" <
anscray@attbi.com>
Sent: Monday,
January 13, 2003 7:15 PM
> I'm getting what feels like heavy vibration from the suspension
or
> wheels under any kind of acceleration.
>
> To specify,
This is purely front end vibration that is more pronounced
> in lower
gears and lower in the RPM band.
>
> This vibration does not occur
in neutral with positive throttle or
> idle, but does occur during down
shifting as well as acceleration.
> Engine and turbo performance seems
normal.. The car seems to have
> normal power and boost levels are
the same.
>
> My first thought was a motor mount , but the vibration
seems to
> correlate almost to perfectly with acceleration and
deceleration of
> the engine. Is this still a
possibility?
>
> I was planning to visit Satan tomorrow but wanted
some ideas b4 my
> trip to the fiery depths of hell..
>
>
Scott
> 94 VR4
> K&N FC,Apexi AVC-R,Borla,Greddy SType
BOV,
> Porterfield Rotors and R4S pads.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:41:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: driveline play - still there
The LONG rear motor mount bolt.
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, BlackLight wrote:
> Which bolts are you talking about Geoff?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:34:18 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S:WAS driveline play NOW Tranny mount
Then I would check and see if the tranny bolt holes are stripped (on the
transmission bell housing) and if your tranny itself is moving even if the
mount is not.
I would also check for driveline play as previously mentioned, and what
ever you do be gentle until you can ascertain what component is the source
of your noise
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
[mailto:BlackLight@Planetice.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 1:12
AM
So what if you are still getting driveline clunking noises and you have all
new 3SX motor and tranny solid poly mounts? It's not the mounts in my car,
and I get the exact same problems, while in gear if you let off and
get back on gas it clunks, if you change direction (forward to reverse or
vice versa) you also get a clunk, and sometimes when shifting under
acceleration.
------------------------------
Now that's interesting technical content! I had to replace the front
driver's side motor mount on my GSX with very low mileage. They looked
very similar to the one's in the pictures Flash posted, with a huge crack
in the rubber bushing part. I was under the impression that was a failure
mode for motor mounts when the car was involved in a high speed
collision.
Are the GSX mounts made from a different material?
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: William Crabtree
[mailto:wjcrabtree@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:20
PM
Parts that wore out quickly in the first place.
------------------------------
I also have a 94 and am experiencing the same type of vibration. It
is most noticeable between 20-30mph in 2nd gear at below 3000RPM.
The replies I received were to check the wheels as a bent rim could be the
cause. In reviewing the paperwork from the previous owner I found a
receipt from Firestone (had alignment done) that states one wheel is
bent. I have know idea which one it is after visual inspection and
no extra rims so I guess I can try the spare at all 4 corners and see if
the vibration goes away.
Dan
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
[mailto:BlackLight@planetice.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:20
PM
I also have a slight vibration that seems to go along with moderate to
heavy acceleration, but again I have solid 3SX poly motor & Tranny
mounts, so I suspect driveline as with my clunking.
------------------------------
try a dynamic balance of all four wheels ($15 x 4 or free if you have
"lifetime balance"). Then you will know which wheel is bent.
Also, a simple "remove each and inspect" might give you a clue.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:30:44 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Help!!! Heavy Vibration under load...
I jack up a wheel and simply put something heavy next to it that has a
protrusion I may use as a pointer. Slide the pointer up to the outer rim
of the wheel wherever convenient& give it a slow turn. You should be
able to see obvious warpage of ANY of the outer rotating components (hub
or wheel) this way. Not having taken apart the front driveline yet I don't
know if this would show a bent outer shaft or not. If you do see a
variance on the wheel rim, then take it off and do the same to just the
hub smooth outer ring were the wheel touches. I do use a dial indicator for
this but it is not strictly necessary to get an idea of were the wobble
comes from. This also helps spot bad bearings by putting vertical torque
on the hub and watching for play.
Pete R
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003
9:04 AM
try a dynamic balance of all four wheels ($15 x 4 or free if you have
"lifetime balance"). Then you will know which wheel is bent.
Also, a simple "remove each and inspect" might give you a clue.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:34:52 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Help!!! Heavy Vibration under load...
Do NOT do the on the car dynamic balancing on a VR-4!!!
AI Nut
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> try a dynamic balance of all four wheels
($15 x 4 or free if you have
> "lifetime balance"). Then you will
know which wheel is bent. Also, a
> simple "remove each and
inspect" might give you a clue.
>
> Chuck Willis
------------------------------
AI Nut,
I think you might be correct. There is a warning label on the inside
of the drivers door stating not to engage the drive line while the vehicle
is off the ground as it could damage the Viscous Coupling Unit (spell?) I
will use Pete's idea.
Using a level the Chamber appears off on the
right front, so I suspect he's the one.
Dan
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut [mailto:ainut1@telocity.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:35 AM
Do NOT do the on the car dynamic balancing on a VR-4!!!
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:47:09 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Help!!! Heavy Vibration under load...
That's right!!
I imagine you guys with transfer cases can't shift them
into neutral like a 4x4 can you? Unless the differential(s) allow a bit of
free-wheeling this rules out the pointer test too unless all four wheels
are in the air at once. What kind of diff do VR4's have anyway? Standard spider
gears, limited slip or lockers of another flavor?
Pete Rivenburg
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
[mailto:ainut1@telocity.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:35 AM
Do NOT do the on the car dynamic balancing on a VR-4!!!
AI Nut
------------------------------
sorry, I should have been more specific - do "OFF CAR DYNAMIC
BALANCE".
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
[mailto:ainut1@telocity.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:35 AM
Do NOT do the on the car dynamic balancing on a VR-4!!!
AI Nut
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#54
**************************************
