Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, December 12 2002 Volume
02 : Number 023
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:57:48 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: curb action
Well first and foremost songsay (very cool name by the way) on a VR-4 they
should NOT be performing a front end alignment. It should be a 4
wheel alignment, what is actually done is an attempt to get the camber,
caster, toe(in or out), and something else all within factory listed
tolerances.
Russ F
CT
93VR-4 Still under the knife..... (the saga
continues)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
songsay@cs.com [mailto:songsay@cs.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Team3S: curb action
does anyone know what exactly goes on when the "shop" performs a front end
alignment?
songsay
92vr4, finally snow in
alaska
turned the boost down to 5psi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:15:40 -0500
From:
songsay@cs.comSubject: Team3S:
alignment
well johnsons tire shop here in town has stated that there was some mazda
with four wheel steering that they had to do something special and quoted
me that it would be 129 bucks. which isn't bad, but then he looked up in
his little book for my 3000 and he said it doesn't say anything that our cars
are four wheel steering and just said front wheel alignment, I said shoot
man. I wish I could do it my dang self if I knew how. I have replaced the
block, tranny and most everything else myself, why cant I do this myself. so if
anyone has pointers or would like to shed some wisdom, I would be most
enlightened.
92vr4 pulling to the
left
songsa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 12:53:18 -0700
From: Chip Greenberg <
chipg@pvtnetworks.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Magazines
A big part of printing expenses are in the set up. With my limited
knowledge of printing I believe if you could find a shop that would work
with you they could "tag" your run after another similar run.
They've done all the press set up for somebody else. (and charged
them!). The job won't be quite as perfect as if you paid for set-up,
but should save a bunch of money.
Good luck
Chip
> Anyone have a connection to a printing company.
> My sister and
brother in law own a print shop, a
> pretty big one too.... I am not sure
if they do much
> full color glossy stuff, I think so.
> If they
aren't terribly busy and we could be flexible
> with publishing dates to
work around their bigger
> customers they may be willing to give a
discount on
> this, but I really don't want to put them out for a
freebie....
> Roger L
> F15DOC
------------------------------
At 09:43 AM 12/11/02 -0800, BlackLight wrote:
>I wouldn't mind
organizing things as far as basic publishing, if that is
>finding what
articles to do and dealing with advertisers and such. I
>don't have
experience with it, so if someone does please step up.
Thanks Matt, but it would be far, far better to find someone who has
done this before. It sounds romantic, but it is a genuine PITA.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:12:43 -0500
From:
songsay@cs.comSubject: Team3S: chrome
I came across another question the other day that you guys might need to
help me with. I called the electroplating shop here in anchorage and told
him I had some wheels that I liked to be chrome and he said that you cant
chrome aluminum. so those cars with chrome wheels are sportin steel wheels or
what. any body know if there is a difference in material used from the
regular silver and the chrome?
songsay
------------------------------
IMHO, I wouldn't have the wheels chromed especially in Alaska (the
salt
would eat the chrome up) I would get the wheels powder coated in a color
of
your preference (no yellow please)
Russ F
CT
- -----Original Message-----
From:
songsay@cs.com [mailto:songsay@cs.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:13 PM
Subject: Team3S: chrome
I came across another question the other day that you guys might need
to
help me with. I called the electroplating shop here in anchorage and
told
him I had some wheels that I liked to be chrome and he said that you
cant
chrome aluminum. so those cars with chrome wheels are sportin steel
wheels
or what. any body know if there is a difference in material used from
the
regular silver and the chrome?
songsay
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:26:04 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: alignment
It takes some pretty specialized (and expensive) equipment for
alignments. $129
is pure horsepucky. A base 3000 and SL might be
fronts only (but I doubt it),
but a VR-4 absolutely must have 4 wheel
alignment. $49.95 at most places,
$59.95 at others, and $69.99 at
rip-off joints. Ask around in your neighborhood
for reputable
places. If you need the alignment specs, I can look them up for
you. If the alignment shops books don't have your car -- run
away.
Pulling to the left could be any number of problems, but alignment is the
most
likely.
AI Nut
songsay@cs.com wrote:
> well
johnsons tire shop here in town has stated that there was some mazda
with
four wheel steering that they had to do something special and
quoted me that it
would be 129 bucks. which isn't bad, but then he
looked up in his little book for
my 3000 and he said it doesn't say
anything that our cars are four wheel steering
and just said front
wheel alignment, I said shoot man. I wish I could do it my
dang self
if I knew how. I have replaced the block, tranny and most everything
else myself, why cant I do this myself. so if anyone has pointers or would
like
to shed some wisdom, I would be most enlightened.
>
>
92vr4 pulling to the
left
>
songsa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:30:54 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: chrome
I think they use an intermediate layer of copper alloy on the
aluminum,
then chrome. Basic wheel is the same material as factory chrome.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From:
songsay@cs.com [mailto:songsay@cs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Team3S: chrome
I came across another question the other day that you guys might need
to
help me with. I called the electroplating shop here in anchorage
and
told him I had some wheels that I liked to be chrome and he said
that
you cant chrome aluminum. so those cars with chrome wheels are
sportin
steel wheels or what. any body know if there is a difference in
material
used from the regular silver and the chrome?
songsay
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:48:02 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: alignment
The prices I talked about are fairly uniform in Alabama, southern
Tennessee, and
south Texas.
AI Nut
Darren Schilberg wrote:
> Where are these shops? Cheapest I can
get is $90 at Sears or $130 from
> the dealer-recommended place (does it
pretty much by hand). Firestone,
> Pep Boys, BP Pro Care, and many
others just laugh at my car when I bring
> it in. Any
suggestions?
>
> --Flash!
> Pittsburgh, PA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:49:16 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: alignment
Dang it, this having to manually fill in the REPLY for the message to go to
the
list is really aggravating. This is the only list where this is
mandatory.
AI Nut
Darren Schilberg wrote:
> Where are these shops? Cheapest I can
get is $90 at Sears or $130 from
> the dealer-recommended place (does it
pretty much by hand). Firestone,
> Pep Boys, BP Pro Care, and many
others just laugh at my car when I bring
> it in. Any
suggestions?
>
> --Flash!
> Pittsburgh, PA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:45:45 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: alignment
That's okay AI Nut - at least I wasn't poking fun at Jim Floyd's
"close
encounters of the third kind" light array on the front of his
VR-4.
I'm still willing to drive to Indiana (or somewhere 12 hours away
at
that) to get a full alignment that is lifetime guaranteed. I think
Cody
speaks of these from time to time.
So if anyone within 6-8 hours of Pittsburgh has suggestions on
alignment
shops please let me know or get them added to the "good guys" list
on
Team3S.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 16:49
Dang it, this having to manually fill in the REPLY for the message to
go
to the list is really aggravating. This is the only list where this
is
mandatory.
AI Nut
Darren Schilberg wrote:
> Where are these shops? Cheapest I can
get is $90 at Sears or $130
> from the dealer-recommended place (does it
pretty much by hand).
> Firestone, Pep Boys, BP Pro Care, and many
others just laugh at my car
> when I bring it in. Any
suggestions?
>
> --Flash!
> Pittsburgh, PA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:50:42 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
chrome
I've never heard of such a thing --- you can even chrome plastic so
I
don't see what would be so special about aluminum. The sequence
is usually
copper, nickel and finally a thin layer of chrome
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
songsay@cs.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 1:12 PM
Subject: Team3S: chrome
> I came across another question the other day that you guys might need
to help me with. I called the electroplating shop here in
anchorage and
told him I had some wheels that I liked to be chrome and he said that you cant
chrome aluminum. so those cars with
chrome wheels are sportin steel
wheels or what. any body know if there is a difference in material used
from the regular silver and
the
chrome?
>
>
songsay
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:46:08 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
alignment
I just hit the reply all button to get to everyone or reply to hit
just
the sender --- Mohler does screw me up on the race list where
if I
hit reply all it sends two copies of the message to the list.
I use a shop here in southern Cal that charges $65 per hour and a
properly
done 3S is about an hour.
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "AINut" <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: alignment
> Dang it, this having to manually fill in the REPLY for the message to
go to the
> list is really aggravating. This is the only list where
this is mandatory.
>
> AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:15:31 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: alignment
(hey, 'Reply All' worked that time!)
Darren, I wouldn't worry about wheel alignments if you live in Pittsburg --
there are enough potholes that you won't make it home without throwing it
out
again! 8-)
AI Nut
who did a contract there one winter (the land of the black
snow...)
Darren Schilberg wrote:
> That's okay AI Nut - at least I wasn't
poking fun at Jim Floyd's "close
> encounters of the third kind" light
array on the front of his VR-4.
>
> I'm still willing to drive to
Indiana (or somewhere 12 hours away at
> that) to get a full alignment
that is lifetime guaranteed. I think Cody
> speaks of these from
time to time.
>
> So if anyone within 6-8 hours of Pittsburgh has
suggestions on alignment
> shops please let me know or get them added to
the "good guys" list on
> Team3S.
>
> --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:19:27 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
alignment
A properly done alignment is fairly complex --- they hang IR sensors on
each wheel
and transmit a signal to a processing computer that gives precise
information
as to the orientation of each wheel with respect to each other
and the ground.
They check and adjust if necessary, camber [ how much the
tire leans in or out ],
caster [ how much the tire leans back with respect to
the steering knuckle ], and
the toe [ tires pointed in or out ]. They also
measure thrust angle, included angle,
setback track width difference and
wheel base difference --- I don't have a clue
what the first three are, and
I'm too lazy to look it up. For our 4WS cars that has
to be done on all four
wheels.
Caster is not adjustable on stock cars and if it's off it means something
is bent. You
can buy the equipment to check toe and camber from Longacre, for
example, for
a few hundred dollars. A toe and camber gauge along with a flat
surface some
hand tools and a couple of hours would allow you to do a
credible alignment. There
are a few tricks to the back --- I think you need
to disconnect a link of some kind.
I'm sure the info is in the book. I
realign my front toe and camber at the track
using a couple of alignment jigs
made to fit my camber plates and straight
edge and tape measure to change
toe. I change the camber from -1º to -3º which
causes the toe to change so I
adjust toe back to +.1".
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
songsay@cs.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 12:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: alignment
> well johnsons tire shop here in town has stated that there was some
mazda with four wheel steering that they had to do something special and
quoted me that it would be 129 bucks. which isn't bad, but then he looked
up in his little book for my 3000 and he said it doesn't say anything that our
cars are four wheel steering and just said front wheel alignment, I said
shoot man. I wish I could do it my dang self if I knew how. I have
replaced the block, tranny and most everything else myself, why cant I do this
myself. so if anyone has pointers or would like to shed some wisdom, I
would be most
enlightened.
>
>
92vr4 pulling to the
left
>
songsa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:26:23 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: chrome
Technically, to chrome plastic it is more of a substrate of a
shiny
piece of tape that is applied - you can tell by getting hold of a
piece
and stripping off the "tape" with a fingernail or knife. The
plastic
trim on the front of the dishwasher that looks like it is a piece
of
aluminum? That is a piece of plastic with a metallic tape adhered
to
the surface after the plastic is extruded. This "melts" the
underside
of the tape to the hot top surface of the plastic and it "becomes
one"
and does not separate for quite some time and endures quite a bit
of
abuse. Similar trim pieces are found in cars, home stereos,
appliances,
you name it.
But you can't really chrome plastic since you need one side to hold
a
charge for the ions and the liquid you dip it into it quite hot
and
would melt or severely deform many of the plastics they use for
such
trim pieces (Polybutylene or PBT, rigid PVC, flexible PVC, etc.) as
they
all have softening temps below 175-200 degrees F.
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 17:51
I've never heard of such a thing --- you can even chrome plastic so
I
don't see what would be so special about aluminum. The sequence
is
usually copper, nickel and finally a thin layer of chrome
Jim Berry
==============================================
------------------------------
Also, any good shop will ask what you weight, and what you do with
the
car.
Find that for $50.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, fastmax wrote:
> A properly done alignment is fairly complex --- they hang IR sensors
on each wheel
> and transmit a signal to a processing computer that gives
precise information
> as to the orientation of each wheel with respect to
each other and the ground.
> They check and adjust if necessary, camber [
how much the tire leans in or out ],
> caster [ how much the tire leans
back with respect to the steering knuckle ], and
> the toe [ tires pointed
in or out ]. They also measure thrust angle, included angle,
> setback
track width difference and wheel base difference --- I don't have a clue
>
what the first three are, and I'm too lazy to look it up. For our 4WS cars that
has
> to be done on all four wheels.
>
> Caster is not
adjustable on stock cars and if it's off it means something is bent. You
>
can buy the equipment to check toe and camber from Longacre, for example,
for
> a few hundred dollars. A toe and camber gauge along with a flat
surface some
> hand tools and a couple of hours would allow you to do a
credible alignment. There
> are a few tricks to the back --- I think you
need to disconnect a link of some kind.
> I'm sure the info is in the
book. I realign my front toe and camber at the track
> using a couple of
alignment jigs made to fit my camber plates and straight
> edge and tape
measure to change toe. I change the camber from -1º to -3º which
> causes
the toe to change so I adjust toe back to +.1".
>
> Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:47:40 -0500
From:
songsay@cs.comSubject: Team3S:
alignment
is the camber plate necessary when lowering the vehicle. say 2 inches. I am
looking to get a suspension kit as well, so I am wondering if I should
wait to get the alignment done or do it now, then have to do it again. not
sure. and if so how do I get my hands on a camber plate and also where does it
mount to.
songsay
92vr4 in alaska
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:40:29 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: alignment
This message supposedly bounced back from the list so I'm sending
it
again.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
[mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 18:33
Why does everyone think Pittsburgh is so full of potholes - it isn't
(or
at least I choose the roads wisely knowing that potholes are bad).
They
were worse in Erie, PA where I attended college and would swallow up
a
small car (the entire car would be able to sit down inside
a
pothole/sinkhole routinely - although we never did pull this prank
of
getting 10 guys to pick up a car and put it in one).
And when I drive 25k-30k a year I do MUCH more than just the here
and
there errands - I make runs up to Lime Rock, Cape Cod, Ocean
City,
Wisconsin, Carolinas, etc. Many times for road events or helping
a
friend out and sometimes for vacation. So driving 5 hours with
a
wobble-wobble-wobble in the steering wheel just gets annoying but I
put
up with it and think of it as my personal hand/arm massager.
We get a good mix of rain/sleet/ice but is mostly slush and hence
the
tricky decision on winter tires. I have Blizzaks that compromise
well
the ice grip and snow traction but also have a good-sized sipe down
the
center to whisk away all the water and slush on the roads. But
isn't it
true that the faster you go the less chance you have of dropping a
wheel
down into a pothole? If you just drive 140 mph then you can
probably
just float over most of the smaller ones, right? I doubt that
excuse
would work well in traffic court though.
------------------------------
Its been pretty cold that past few weeks in NJ, bout 15-25 degrees in the
morning.
The car starts up fine and I let it idle for a few minutes to make sure its
good to go. But after a sustained run at 70 down the highway for bout
10
minutes the car still isn't even close to warm. The car is at
normal temp
after 20 minutes of normal driving. but until the car idles
higher to
warm up which wastes gas, and it wont give heat at all. Its a 97
SL. Is my
thermostat sticking?
- -mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:14:35 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
It'll take a week? Are they paying for rental cars?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Spainhour
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall
update
Hello all,
I called the local Mitsu dealer this morning to setup a time to
bring
my car in for the recall. He asked for the vin number and told me
that
not all vr4s are subject to the recall. Not sure which ones
are
excluded, but my vin checked out. He told me to bring it in as soon
as
possible.
They gave me a call once they had looked at the car
and reported that
the fluid had metal shavings in it and that they needed to
dismantle the
TC to determine if it was damaged. If not, they would clean it
up,
reassemble it and put it back on my car with fresh fluid. If it
was
damaged, they would replace it with a new one. All in all, they said
it
would take a week.
Joseph
93 vr4
------------------------------
At 06:47 PM 12/11/02 -0500,
songsay@cs.com wrote:
>is the camber
plate necessary when lowering the vehicle. say 2 inches.
No, the Ground Control kit will go that low in front. You only need the
camber plate if you want to get negative camber.
> I am looking to get a suspension kit as well, so I am wondering if I
should wait to get the alignment done or do it now, then have to do it
again. not sure.
Wait, and do it all at once.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:24:34 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
from postings on 3si.org and supraforums.com
quote:
He finished 8th (of 10)...he wasn't allowed to run on the road
course due to
rollcage issues, he ran a 14.6 (?) @ 98mph on the strip, but
won a couple of
the earlier tests like the grandma and drivability tests
which I'm sure
helped him get his placing. He also put down 280HP on the HKS4
Dyno we were
using
I could be wrong but here is what I remember....
1: Viper
2: Skyline
3: Supra
4: WRX
5: Eclipse
6:MR2
7:
Integra
8: Vr4
9: SRX-7
10: B210
endquote
He must have some other performance issues.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:24:06 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Custom Painting
I saw a yellow Spyder on the road here in Olympia, WA once. It was
EXACTLY the same yellow as my hardtop VR-4, which leads me to believe it
was the stock color. I haven't seen it since.
- - Brian
> Has anyone seen any yellow STOCK VR4 Spyders? If they
> are
floating around I may hold out for one... so far
> it is nothing more then
a rumor that all the yellows
> are repaints....
> Roger L
>
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:27:47 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: could someone test their dashpot please?
I bought one from mitsupartsdirect.com and I think it is faulty.
According
to the manual, you are supposed to be able to push the screw in,
then cover
the vacuum outlet nipple and then the screw is not supposed to
come back out
or the diaphragm is damaged. My newly purchased one comes
back 90% of the
way. Does this mean it's bad, or is it ok as long as it
doesn't come back
all the way?
thanks,
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:22:00 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
alignment
Lowering the car upsets the suspension geometry so an alignment
is
required if some lowering kit is installed. Lowering the car 2", which
is
pretty much a maximum, will prevent you from realigning the car to
it's
stock settings. Both front and rear camber will be negative, probably
around
-1º or -2º, stock is about -½º as I recall. Camber plates will allow
you to
reach the stock value in the front but no one makes camber plates
for the
rear. 3SX sells adjustable control arms for the rear adjustment.
The fancy coilover kits from JIC or Tein have camber plates
available
for the front and would be my choice if I redo my suspension.
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
songsay@cs.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Team3S: alignment
> is the camber plate necessary when lowering the vehicle. say 2 inches.
I am looking to get a suspension kit as well, so I am
wondering if I
should wait to get the alignment done or do it now, then have to do it again.
not sure. and if so how do I get my
hands on a camber plate and also
where does it mount
to.
>
>
songsay
>
92vr4 in alaska
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:31:10 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: alignment
Also, alignment is only the most common cause of the symptoms you describe.
Other possibilities could be broken tire treads, bent wheel, shaft out of
round,
too-fat passenger 8-), and etc.
AI Nut
Darren Schilberg wrote:
> This message supposedly bounced back from
the list so I'm sending it
> again.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:32:07 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
That's a simply shameful performance. With the mods he listed, he
should easily be in the 11's. Looks like another case of lots of
$$$, but no brains. :(
> quote:
> He finished 8th
(of 10)...he wasn't allowed to run on the
> road course due to
>
rollcage issues, he ran a 14.6 (?) @ 98mph on the strip, but
> won a
couple of
> the earlier tests like the grandma and drivability tests
> which I'm sure
> helped him get his placing. He also put down
280HP on the
> HKS4 Dyno we were
> using
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:41:05 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
At 20:32 12/11/2002, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
>That's a simply shameful
performance. With the mods he listed, he should
>easily be in the
11's. Looks like another case of lots of $$$, but no
>brains.
:(
What's that grandma test? Was his VR-4 the most grandma-friendly or
something?
That guy will be now laughed at anywhere he goes. I would not be surprised
to see his car for sale on Ebay soon with a claim like "This is the 8th
best car in America".
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:27:02 -0500
From: "Andre Cerri" <
cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: alignment
Firestone does lifetime alignments for $109. Not sure of the small
print
though.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent: Wednesday,
December 11, 2002 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: alignment
That's okay AI Nut - at least I wasn't poking fun at Jim Floyd's
"close
encounters of the third kind" light array on the front of his
VR-4.
I'm still willing to drive to Indiana (or somewhere 12 hours away
at
that) to get a full alignment that is lifetime guaranteed. I think
Cody
speaks of these from time to time.
So if anyone within 6-8 hours of Pittsburgh has suggestions on
alignment
shops please let me know or get them added to the "good guys" list
on
Team3S.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 16:49
Dang it, this having to manually fill in the REPLY for the message to
go
to the list is really aggravating. This is the only list where this
is
mandatory.
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:32:15 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: alignment
Firestone does not cover an AWD car (here in Pittsburgh). I tried
that
- - at all three local Firestone/Bridgestone places. My next step
is to
visit the Audi and Subaru dealers to see if they have an inside line
to
the AWD alignment circuit.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andre Cerri
[mailto:cerri@intersystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002
21:27
Firestone does lifetime alignments for $109. Not sure of the small
print
though.
------------------------------
I hate that! That's why I don't reply even though I may know something to a
question.
------------------------------
> I hate that! That's why I don't reply even though I may know
>
something to a question.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I agree with your answer. Well put!
(What was the question?)
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:31:49 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S:
alignment and wheel balancing
Nothing good. Maybe I don't need to say this again, but I will since I
see
lots of posts regarding alignment. I have the AWD, TT Stealth. In my
case
they ruined my car. If they're going to balance your wheels then make
sure
they have an off-car wheel balancer. If they want to balance "on car",
then
make sure you watch them, and bring a friend or two as witnesses in
case
they do something dumb (like leaving two wheels locked on the ground!!).
I'm
going hunting for a new drivetrain and if everything goes as planned,
the
negligent alignment shop will be writing the check. Yippee!
By the way, the content of this article also applies to FWD models
of
Stealth and 3000GT, because if they really mess up then they can ruin
your
differential.
- -------------------------->
does anyone know what exactly goes on when the "shop" performs a front
end
alignment?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:55:07 -0500
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3Si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 3S magazine, Think Small
I would love a 3S magazine the quality of the BMW magazine Roundel.
I
seriously doubt that it could be pulled off w/o a big sugar daddy.
This is
not going tot be Mitsubishi or Dodge. When JeremyG talked
to
Mitsubishi about sponsoring the National Gathering they told him
they had no
reason to promote a car they no longer sold, they seemed
confused that he
was dumb enough to ask. Dodge was actually more
interested just
because JeremyG got ahold of some people who
remembered the Stealth
development project and liked it. But with
the exception of the Viper
they drove up, they didn't really invest
much.
Don't stop trying because I am a pessimist, but I think a nice color
printed magazine is going to be way too expensive.
I think a Amateur style magazine is definitely possible.
Printed in
B&W with only 1 or 2 color pictures. This would be a
magazine that
would focus on technical content and special interest
articles. Make
the magazine very cheap knowing there will probably
only be 1000 subscribers
(how many people actually paid to join 3si,
its less than 2000 over several
years).
If you are into Avalon Hill War Games you might have heard of my
brother Bruce Monnin. He took over publishing "Buzzards Breath" When
he was in High school. It looked like someone mimeographed a bad
church bulletin. I believe he lost money on every issue. When he
got out of college he started his own magazine "The Boardgamer"
See his website.
It is the 1999, 2000 & 2001 Charles S. Roberts
Award Winner For
Best Amateur Game Magazine in the Conflict
Simulation Game Industry.
Personally I haven't figured out why he doesn't just play computer
war
games. I was also shocked to learn that he wasn't the only
candidate
for this award.
It is printed by the local printing company. It is not a slick
magazine but it is printed on quality paper so it has a sturdy feel
to
it. The reason his magazine is good because it has great
technical
content.
He keeps the magazine running because it is a labor of love. I once
suggested ways to advertise and improve his website and he told me
that
if he focused on profits he would have to stop because he would
realize that
he is paid almost nothing for his time.
I think his magazine style could be a successfully model for a 3S
magazine, more technical content w/o much fluff. Like the defense
between Team3S and 3si. I personally spend more time on 3si but
I
have to weed through the fluff to get to the good stuff.
To sum up my opinion of what a 3S magazine should be at startup:
1. Non-profit, or very low profit, must be a labor of love.
(sorry but I don't have enough love for me to do it)
2. Low publishing cost
to compensate for low distribution (less that
1000)
3. Technically
focused, For example I would love to see a detailed
article about
intercooler sizing and effects of pipe size and
distance. Or an article
about the cheapest way to run 11 sec qtr.
4. Car profiles would be detailed,
more tech less pictures
5. Advertisements would be great but they would have
to be cheap.
most advertiser's will realize that they can get better
exposure by
just posting on 3Si on a regular basis.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:29:15 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case recall update
If it takes a week then its "thank, put it back together, call me when
you
have the parts" If not "put it back together I'm going to another
dealer"
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
Sent: Wednesday, December
11, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
It'll take a week? Are they paying for rental cars?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Spainhour
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall
update
Hello all,
I called the local Mitsu dealer this morning to setup a time to
bring
my car in for the recall. He asked for the vin number and told me
that
not all vr4s are subject to the recall. Not sure which ones
are
excluded, but my vin checked out. He told me to bring it in as soon
as
possible.
They gave me a call once they had looked at the car
and reported that
the fluid had metal shavings in it and that they needed to
dismantle the
TC to determine if it was damaged. If not, they would clean it
up,
reassemble it and put it back on my car with fresh fluid. If it
was
damaged, they would replace it with a new one. All in all, they said
it
would take a week.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:35:33 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Yet another AC question
All this talk of air conditioners made me remember that mine doesn't
work. :( The previous owner of the car didn't like air
conditioning and never used it.
If I give it a charge of 134A, it'll blow nice and cold for a couple of
hours...but the next day it just blows warm air. So, I figure it's
gotta be a leak. I put some fluorescent dye in the system to try to
find the leak. The only place I could find any dye was on the
passenger's side of the firewall, just above the fuel filter. There
was quite a bit of dye around this fitting.
With my luck, this is probably either the most expensive part of the AC
system, or the hardest to work on. Most likely both.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Problem after problem this car is a nightmare. Already put me in 5k
of
debt.
Here is what is happening. I was merging onto the highway and it
was
quite busy so I kept in 3rd to accelerate fast. As soon as the on
ramp
straightened out I floored it. As soon as the rpm's hit 4000 the
engine
would cut out, it would drop 500 rpm then accel to 4000, cut out. and
so
on as I held my foot down on the peddle. It would seem to me as it
was
limiting my rev's. Which I don't understand. So I went to a empty
road
and tested it out. I put it in first, floored it and took it to
5500
rpm. No problems. shifted into second. As soon as it hit 4000k it cut
in
and out. Shifted into 3rd. Did the same. I had my foot to the floor as
I
was accelerating both times. If I didn't put the peddle to the floor
it
would slowly increase past 4000. I got it to 5000 in 3rd and
no
problems. Only when I floor it does it seem to cut in and out. What
is
causing this?
Second, when I dis-engage the clutch I can hear a rattle coming from
the
engine compartment. Only when the car is in gear. If I put car
in
neutral and let off the clutch all the way, no problems. If I am
driving
along in 3rd maybe doing 40 kph and I push the clutch in, no rattle,
let
it out again. as soon as it grabs, I hear the rattle again. What
could
this be.
I have a 92 stealth SOHC base model. With a leaking
downpipe,
specifically the flex pipe. "check engine light is on". I getting a
new
downpipe put on tomorrow. I'm aware that the oxygen sensor could
be
causing the CEL to come on due to the fact the leak is before it. Can
I
get some input on this.
Oh, I had a refurbished gas tank put on because I could not afford a
new
one. I can hear a high pitched wining noise coming from the top of
the
tank. Is this normal? my friend 5.0L mustang does this too, he has
a
new tank too.
Thanks!
Jay
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:12:03 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Yet another AC question
Is there a Schraeder valve near that position? I don't
remember. Sometimes
they need replacing. That's the easiest and
cheapest fix 8-). If it some other
seal, it can get hairy. If a
hose had developed a leak, you're looking at a
couple hundred at
least. Sorry. Where are you? Anywhere near Huntsville,
Alabama?
AI Nut
Geddes, Brian J wrote:
> All this talk of air conditioners made me
remember that mine doesn't work. :( The previous owner of the
car didn't like air conditioning and never used it.
>
> If I
give it a charge of 134A, it'll blow nice and cold for a couple of hours...but
the next day it just blows warm air. So, I figure it's gotta be a
leak. I put some fluorescent dye in the system to try to find the
leak. The only place I could find any dye was on the passenger's side of
the firewall, just above the fuel filter. There was quite a bit of
dye around this fitting.
>
> With my luck, this is probably either
the most expensive part of the AC system, or the hardest to work on.
Most likely both.
>
> - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:17:54 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: engine troubles!
The last thing is likely your fuel pump. I can hear mine from the
outside
sometimes. Weird, but I don't hear it on the inside at all. A high
pitched
sound...
The first thing is weird. I was just about to say that your boost
control
hose popped off and you were hitting fuel cut, but having as you got
an N/A
that is not a likely cause :) (cant be a cause because you have no
boost
controller stuff). Ether way, sounds like it happens under load
only.... Not
sure, you got me...
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:18:50 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
engine troubles!
Have you read the code for that "check engine" light yet? It could
be
something else that's more serious and not just o2 signal.
Some shots in the dark...
Fuel delivery system
Ignition system
Good luck with that,
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
"93 rusty expensive tt"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:45:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Brody Martin <
brody_martin@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: engine troubles!
- --- Planet <
planet.j@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> As soon as the rpm's
> hit 4000 the engine
>
would cut out, it would drop 500 rpm then accel to
> 4000, cut out.
I put it in first, floored it and
> took it to 5500
> rpm. No
problems. shifted into second. As soon as it
> it 4000k it cut in
>
and out. Shifted into 3rd. Did the same. I had my
> foot to the floor as
I
> was accelerating both times. If I didn't put the
> peddle to the
floor it
> would slowly increase past 4000. I got it to 5000 in
>
3rd and no
> problems. Only when I floor it does it seem to cut
> in
and out.
On that I would say check your fuel filter
and
connections to see if they are clogged or have trash
in them.
> Second, when I dis-engage the clutch I can hear a
> rattle
coming from the
> engine compartment. Only when the car is in gear.
If
> I put car in
> neutral and let off the clutch all the way,
no
> problems. If I am driving
> along in 3rd maybe doing 40 kph and
I push the
> clutch in, no rattle, let
> it out again. as soon as it
grabs, I hear the rattle
> again. What could
> this be.
I would say that you need to check you TOB. It
sounds like it is
failing.
> I have a 92 stealth SOHC base model. With a leaking
>
downpipe,
> specifically the flex pipe.
> I'm aware that the
oxygen
> sensor could be
> causing the CEL to come on due to the
fact the leak
> is before it.
This CEL could be the cause to numerous problems. Get
the flex pipe
fixed and then check.
> Oh, I had a refurbished gas tank put on because I
> could not
afford a new
> one. I can hear a high pitched wining noise coming
>
from the top of the
> tank. Is this normal? my friend 5.0L mustang
does
> this too, he has a
> new tank too.
That is your
fuel pump. Maybe when you refurbished the
tank you loosened (sp) some
trash.
Just some ideas for now. Remember to change one thing
at a time. You
don't want more variables in an
equation than you can deal with.
Good Luck,
Brody
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:55:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Brody Martin <
brody_martin@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Yet another AC question
- --- AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com> wrote:
> Is
there a Schraeder valve near that position? I
> don't
remember. Sometimes
> they need replacing. That's the easiest
and
> cheapest fix 8-). If it some other
> seal, it can get
hairy. If a hose had developed a
> leak, you're looking at a
> couple hundred at least.
>
> Geddes, Brian J
wrote:
> > >
> > If I give it a charge of 134A, it'll blow
nice and
> cold for a couple of hours...but the next day it
> just
blows warm air. So, I figure it's gotta be a
> leak. I put
some fluorescent dye in the system to
> try to find the leak. The
only place I could find
> any dye was on the passenger's side of the
firewall,
> just above the fuel filter. There was quite a
bit
> of dye around this fitting.
Brian,
Quick questions for you. What
does the fitting
look like? When was the system converted with R-134A?
How
was it done?
Thanks,
Brody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:46:50 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Thermostat Q
yes
- -----Original Message-----
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.com
[mailto:M3000GTSL84@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:07
PM
Subject: Team3S: Thermostat Q
Its been pretty cold that past few weeks in NJ, bout 15-25 degrees
in
the morning.
The car starts up fine and I let it idle for a few minutes to make
sure
its good to go. But after a sustained run at 70 down the highway
for bout
10 minutes the car still isn't even close to warm. The car is
at normal
temp after 20 minutes of normal driving. but until the car idles
higher
to warm up which wastes gas, and it wont give heat at all. Its a 97
SL. Is
my thermostat sticking?
- -mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:53:54 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
Brian and list he may have the mods but not have a competent tuner, or
may
have the mods and a competent tuner but just cant drive (highly
likely). My
question is how do I sign up for next year? A link
would be extremely
helpful.
My car should be all done by then (well other than body work). Hell I
will
represent 3S and not make us look foolish.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geddes, Brian J
[mailto:brian.j.geddes@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:32
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
That's a simply shameful performance. With the mods he listed, he
should
easily be in the 11's. Looks like another case of lots of $$$,
but no
brains. :(
> quote:
> He finished 8th (of
10)...he wasn't allowed to run on the
> road course due to
>
rollcage issues, he ran a 14.6 (?) @ 98mph on the strip, but
> won a
couple of
> the earlier tests like the grandma and drivability tests
> which I'm sure
> helped him get his placing. He also put down
280HP on the
> HKS4 Dyno we were
> using
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:40:03 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Yet another AC question
I don't remember off the top of my head what it looks like, but it's the
only one in the area, near the fuel filter. My car's a '94, so it
had 134A from the factory.
> Brian,
> Quick
questions for you. What does the fitting
> look like? When was the system
converted with R-134A?
> How was it done?
>
> Thanks,
>
Brody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:35:04 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: Anybody interested in Basic Car Maintenance demo at NG03?
Dear folks,
I am wondering if anyone on this list would be interested in observing or
performing Basic 3s maintenance at the 2003 National Gathering during the
car show. My cars are not much to show, and judging from some of the
fundamental and frequently asked questions, there might be some interest in
viewing simple maintenance tasks. Here's a draft list of the sort of
things that might be readily demonstrated in about 15 minutes with a
limited amount of equipment, and repeated multiple times over a couple of
hours. All of these may seem trivial to a lot of our experts, but
each has some subtle nuances for our cars and none of us were born knowing
how to do them. Please email me directly with your derogatory
comments.
Chuck Willis
1. Boost gauge installation
2. Raising and supporting the
car safely
3. Brake pad change
4. Bleeding the brake
system
5. Bleeding the clutch slave cylinder
6. Replacing
struts or springs
7. Drain/refill transaxle, transfer case, rear
axle
8. Installing a manual boost controller
9. Replacing the
fuel filter
10. Replacing the fuel pump
11. Changing the motor
oil and filter
12. Installing a high flow intake
13. Changing
brake calipers
14. Changing brake rotors
15. Replacing damaged
lug stud
16. Installing ss brake lines
17. Changing spark
plugs/ or intake manifold plenum removal and reinstallation
18.
Measuring engine compression
19. Motorized antenna repair
20.
Removal of the ECU
21. Reading the trouble codes
++++++++++++++++++ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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information in this e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged.
If you are
not the intended recipient or an authorized representative
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your computer system. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:48:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Brody Martin <
brody_martin@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Anybody interested in Basic Car Maintenance demo at NG03?
I think that that would be awesome to see there. I know
that there would
be a good turn out for that.
Brody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:09:30 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Coolant
Hey guys,
I had my coolant cap tested and according to the shop, it couldn't
hold
a sneeze... so... I went out and bought one finally, but I've
been
driving with the low coolant light on whenever a. the car is cold, or
b.
I slam on the brakes for quite a while now. Which is understandable,
but
my question is once I get the new cap on there (my baby is still at
the
body shop :( ) should I do a coolant flush? If so, anyone got
a
procedure handy?
TIA,
Alex.
'95 VR4 ('99 front end conversion coming...)
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#23
**************************************