Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, December 11 2002 Volume 02 : Number
022
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:52:44 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Custom Painting - Mystic by BASF
There are multiple manufacturers of these color shift paints and they are
all
expensive. I bought two 2 oz. cans at about $70 per can to paint my
driving helmet --- I didn't use it all but there's not much left. I used a
product called Harlequin by Dupont.
The paint is applied over a primer coat and multiple layers of clear are
sprayed over the top. A base coat similar to the color of the color
change paint would probably reduce the amount of high dollar paint
required. When hardened you
can sand down any orange peel in the clear coat
and re-shoot a coat or two
of thinned clearcoat to provide the finished
surface.
When I did my bike I used House of Color which has a primer, a metallic,
and a translucent color coat followed by multiple coats of clear then sand
and re-shoot. Unless you're using a solid color care must be taken not to
sand into the color coat --- The multiple layers of clear allow you to sand out
minor imperfections without getting into the color.
> The "Chameleon Paint" suggestion caused me to do another search, I
> came up with the actual manufacturer and description of the
process:
>
>
http://web2.airmail.net/robmu/colors.html>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Custom Painting
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:21:35 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case recall update
> Looks like you get some $8 seals and a can of oil?
They're not $8 seals, at least for the 2G transfer case anyway. Here
are the prices from Norco last year:
MB837030/28.78
MB837031/32.04
And then $50 to install them. I wonder if I can get reimbursed
for that
since I don't own the car anymore.
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:31:39 -0800
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
- -Brad
1997 VR-4 (Still For Sale)
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to have their cars
featured. If their car is worth being featured they've already paid
enough! Not to mention it would merely become a bidding war for bragging
rights to who's car is on the cover type of thing!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and
third party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly
specials. This could also be tied into a new product testing/review
section. Perhaps a nominal fee to have your car displayed to all?
All options and costs would have to be examined but you should be able to drop
costs to an acceptable level. The question remains how many would be
willing to devote that much of their free time.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:40:10 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: FS: G Tech performance meter/PRO
A buddy of mine gave this to me because he went to the drag strip too
frequently to worry about using it. It's in used working condition with
meter, windshield bracket, and user's manual. The windshield bracket needs
new Velcro probably, its lost its stick I guess, but other than that you should
be ready to plug and play. Looks like they're going for around $75 used.
Let me know if anyone is interested.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:39:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: BigRed brake sale..again.
$125 shipped for a set of AP594 R4 race pads.
Its this..or they go back to porterfield..but id much rather sell em to
somebody.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:56:02 -0500
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: free 20 HP mod
Hey Guys,
Being curious about this mod (removing the
little plastic piece from the
solenoid) I took off the bottom hose as
described on the web page, but I could not find anything in the
solenoid. I looked in the hose nothing there either. I am the second
owner of the vehicle and I know the 75 year old guy I bought it from (who
keeps everything stock on all his cars), so I doubt he removed
it.
I have a 93 VR4, shouldn't I have this plastic piece
or is this just a hoax?
Thanks
Vinny (looking for 20 free hp)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:20:12 -0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
Well how ironic. Amid all this fervor, a modded 3S has made it into
the Sport Compact Car ultimate street car challenge. Now for the bad
news. This yahoo got into the contest by talking smack of the highest
order. Something to the tune of `all the ladies, including yours, will be
anxious for same fun' when describing his car. Unfortunately, this
contest is big time serious. As an example, one of the other ten cars is a
Viper ACR with a race tuned motor and suspension, running oversize
Hoosiers and driven by a amateur championship driver. Some of the
other competitors include a monster MR2, race prepped SC Integra Type R, and a
WRX being campaigned by the president of Sparco North America. The
article writer peeled off the usual albeit naive, opinion that the 3S is
not in the same league with the other Asian super cars. Our hero is coming
to the fight with 17g's, 660 RC's, and a claimed 650HP. He appears
to be the only contestant campaigning street tires and stock brakes.
I see a black eye coming.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Sent:
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
> While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that
> there is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car
> Ultimate Street Car Challenge this year?
>
>
-Brad
> 1997 VR-4 (Still For Sale)
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: BlackLight
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002
10:55 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
>
> I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to
have their cars
> featured. If their car is worth being featured they've
already paid
> enough! Not to mention it would merely become a bidding
war for
> bragging rights to who's car is on the cover type of
thing!
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT
>
BlackLight@Planetice.Net>
www.BlackLight.5u.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:59:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
Does anybody know this guy?
Hopefully he can be convinced to spend some serious
effort tuning the
suspension and engine so he at least
makes a good show.
Of course, we all know how great our cars are.... the
last thing I need
or care about is getting
gratification from the Sports Compact World...
Of course, it would be nice to have someone show up
that can really
represent us.... Why not one of our
tuners rather then this guy?
Hope he is up to the task.
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:07:13 -0500
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@coastalnet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
Hello all,
I called the local Mitsu dealer this morning to setup a time to
bring my car in for the recall. He asked for the vin number and told me
that not all vr4s are subject to the recall. Not sure which ones are
excluded, but my vin checked out. He told me to bring it in as soon as
possible.
They gave me a call once they had looked at the car and
reported that the fluid had metal shavings in it and that they needed to
dismantle the TC to determine if it was damaged. If not, they would clean it
up, reassemble it and put it back on my car with fresh fluid. If it was
damaged, they would replace it with a new one. All in all, they said it
would take a week.
Joseph
93 vr4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:12:01 -0800 (PST)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
Last year, they didn't have an AWD dyno, so a VR-4
would not have scored
in that category. No score in
1 category = probably won't win.
Probably won't win the 1/4 mile, our cars are too
heavy.
Yes we have great cars, but the ruler they are using
to measure with
doesn't favor a VR-4.
Glenn
- --- Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does
anybody know this guy?
> Hopefully he can be convinced to spend some
serious
> effort tuning the suspension and engine so he at
> least
makes a good show.
> Of course, we all know how great our cars
are....
<snip>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:13:55 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 3S Makes Sport Compact Car (Ohh, No)
Let's get together and collect $5 each for him to at least have some 3S
shop dyno-tune his car. Maybe he will beat the Integra then, LOL! ;-)
Or
better yet, I think some 3S shop should sponsor him if he is not
sponsored
yet. The shop will then get some free advertisement in Sport
Compact Car.
Philip
At 18:59 12/10/2002, Roger Ludwig wrote:
>Does anybody know this
guy?
>Hopefully he can be convinced to spend some serious
>effort
tuning the suspension and engine so he at least
>makes a good
show.
>Of course, we all know how great our cars are.... the
>last
thing I need or care about is getting
>gratification from the Sports
Compact World...
>Of course, it would be nice to have someone show
up
>that can really represent us.... Why not one of our
>tuners
rather then this guy?
>Hope he is up to the task.
>Roger
L
>F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:29:00 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Well, I suppose, if this were to be done, it would take a small "team" of
individuals to get it to press... One nice thing is that we are all
obviously internet based individuals, across the US... Regional
things are easier to do, and "reporters" are all over the place...
Basically, what I'm saying, is that it will take volunteers to become
writers, and a few overseeing editors to overlook all the written
stories/articles...
If it's going to be a print publication, I would think (thinking
affordable, here) that something like a 16 or 24 page publication, with
gloss color front and back, possibly another gloss color page in the
center, with the rest on standard newsprint black and white (or color, but
that costs a little more), would be the way to go...
I used to do layout work for a local "autotrader" style publication, and
it's quite simple with the right tools...
I will volunteer to be a writer, or even editor for the publication, but I
don't have nearly enough time to go into layout...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
- -Brad
1997 VR-4 (Still For Sale)
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to have their cars
featured. If their car is worth being featured they've already paid
enough! Not to mention it would merely become a bidding war for bragging
rights to who's car is on the cover type of thing!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and
third party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly
specials. This could also be tied into a new product testing/review
section. Perhaps a nominal fee to have your car displayed to all?
All options and costs would have to be examined but you should be able to drop
costs to an acceptable level. The question remains how many would be
willing to devote that much of their free time.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:01:24 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case recall update
No, you do have to show proof of ownership because whomever owns it now can
claim the rebate too. At least that's how it was with my friend and his
Acura Legend.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall
update
> Looks like you get some $8 seals and a can of oil?
They're not $8 seals, at least for the 2G transfer case anyway. Here
are the prices from Norco last year:
MB837030/28.78
MB837031/32.04
And then $50 to install them. I wonder if I can get reimbursed
for that
since I don't own the car anymore.
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:09:32 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I could spend some time on layout, depending on time frame involved. I
usually have a few hours a day to work on projects. At very least, I would
be willing to spend some time as part of a team go get things rolling. I
had considered trying to start something like this on my own a while back, but
the startup costs to do it out of my house were not realistic, that is
what I think we will need the most help with. I personally cant stand the
newspaper quality black and white publications like auto trader and automart,
I almost want to wear gloves to flip through them (maybe why I don't read
newspapers :) so for me it would be magazine quality paper with color for
my personal preference. I'm sure the people receiving them would be
willing to pay slightly more for these quality materials. I know I would!!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Cody
Sent: Tuesday, December 10,
2002 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Well, I suppose, if this were to be done, it would take a small "team" of
individuals to get it to press... One nice thing is that we are all
obviously internet based individuals, across the US... Regional
things are easier to do, and "reporters" are all over the place...
Basically, what I'm saying, is that it will take volunteers to become
writers, and a few overseeing editors to overlook all the written
stories/articles...
If it's going to be a print publication, I would think (thinking
affordable, here) that something like a 16 or 24 page publication, with
gloss color front and back, possibly another gloss color page in the
center, with the rest on standard newsprint black and white (or color, but
that costs a little more), would be the way to go...
I used to do layout work for a local "autotrader" style publication, and
it's quite simple with the right tools...
I will volunteer to be a writer, or even editor for the publication, but I
don't have nearly enough time to go into layout...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
- -Brad
1997 VR-4 (Still For Sale)
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to have their cars
featured. If their car is worth being featured they've already paid
enough! Not to mention it would merely become a bidding war for bragging
rights to who's car is on the cover type of thing!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and
third party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly
specials. This could also be tied into a new product testing/review
section. Perhaps a nominal fee to have your car displayed to all?
All options and costs would have to be examined but you should be able to drop
costs to an acceptable level. The question remains how many would be
willing to devote that much of their free time.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:09:29 +0900
From: Case LCpl Jason P <
casejp@iwakuni.usmc.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
If we're going to do something like this do it right. My suggestion would
be to get a few retirees out there to set up shop. I'm pretty sure that
you have enough board members willing to front this thing that donations
would cover your fees until you get the subscription payments in. Then you can
set up the payment via PayPal as a business endeavor. If it falls through
make a plan to donate the money to a company within the group that
actually is starting to produce after market parts for these cars. Maybe then
they could develop equipment for NA owners. In the case of failure, they
sell off the equipment that they have already have. They can put the money
from these items into an established company. Sponsors are also a major
plus. Make a plan stick with it and run. Violence of action is what wins
battles. Keep in mind the 6 P's(Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor
Performance). If you want it, make it happen. Hell I'll send the first
donation. Semper Fi. Kuruma
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
[mailto:BlackLight@planetice.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:10
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I could spend some time on layout, depending on time frame involved. I
usually have a few hours a day to work on projects. At very least, I would
be willing to spend some time as part of a team go get things rolling. I
had considered trying to start something like this on my own a while back, but
the startup costs to do it out of my house were not realistic, that is
what I think we will need the most help with. I personally cant stand the
newspaper quality black and white publications like auto trader and automart,
I almost want to wear gloves to flip through them (maybe why I don't read
newspapers :) so for me it would be magazine quality paper with color for
my personal preference. I'm sure the people receiving them would be
willing to pay slightly more for these quality materials. I know I would!!
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Tuesday, December 10,
2002 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Well, I suppose, if this were to be done, it would take a small "team" of
individuals to get it to press... One nice thing is that we are all
obviously internet based individuals, across the US... Regional
things are easier to do, and "reporters" are all over the place...
Basically, what I'm saying, is that it will take volunteers to become
writers, and a few overseeing editors to overlook all the written
stories/articles...
If it's going to be a print publication, I would think (thinking
affordable, here) that something like a 16 or 24 page publication, with
gloss color front and back, possibly another gloss color page in the
center, with the rest on standard newsprint black and white (or color, but
that costs a little more), would be the way to go...
I used to do layout work for a local "autotrader" style publication, and
it's quite simple with the right tools...
I will volunteer to be a writer, or even editor for the publication, but I
don't have nearly enough time to go into layout...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
- -Brad
1997 VR-4 (Still For Sale)
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to have their cars
featured. If their car is worth being featured they've already paid
enough! Not to mention it would merely become a bidding war for bragging
rights to who's car is on the cover type of thing!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and
third party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly
specials. This could also be tied into a new product testing/review
section. Perhaps a nominal fee to have your car displayed to all?
All options and costs would have to be examined but you should be able to drop
costs to an acceptable level. The question remains how many would be
willing to devote that much of their free time.
Mike
------------------------------
At 08:40 AM 12/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I'd like to hear what Rich
Merritt has to say about the amount of work
>that would be involved in
putting together a magazine, either on a
>quarterly print basis or
electronically.
If we distribute it electronically as a PDF file, then only a small percent
of the readers can print the glorious color photos. And who wants to print
32 pages on a color printer? Until they start turning computer monitors on
their sides so pages are more readable, electronic mags will never make it. It'd
be a nice novelty for one or two issues, then it would die from lack of
interest.
To support a print edition, we have to sell ads. The value of an ad is
based on the number of subscribers and their demographics. We'd need to do
a little research here to see what we have. The Slow Ol' Farmer Dude and I
thought about starting a magazine for open tracking, and we did some research
into demographics of open trackers. It was AMAZING. Those dudes with M3s
and ZO6s make tons of money. We found a core of about 10,000 very rich
racers. Even so, we didn't start a mag. Who knows what we'll find amongst our
folks?
If we shoot for a 32 page quarterly, it will probably need 16 pages of ads
to pay for production, printing, postage, and all the other expenses
involved.
Paul (Desert Fox) says he has software to calculate costs. So, Mr. Fox,
what would it cost to print 32 pages at various runs, say 1,000 to 10,000
copies?
>From this, we can determine the per-page charge, and bounce it off
>companies most likely to advertise. The 3Sers who have little garage
>shop operations selling strut braces are not going to pay for this mag.
>They might buy fractional ads in the back, but they most likely will
>not pay $2,000 or more for a full page color ad. Those will have to
>come from companies like Tires Plus or Stillen.
Somebody has to take on the task of selling ads. That person is called a
publisher.
Photography has to be improved. What we see on web sites is not good enough
for print. We would have to shoot film and convert (which costs money) or
ask for digital photos with 300 dpi resolution. Those great photos you see
in magazines are not taken with a $5 throwaway camera. In many cases, those are
large format film cameras or 4 Megapixel digitals.
I would assign Chuck Willis the racing column, Roger Gerl the European
column, and...oops...Getting ahead of myself here. Still, we need to find
folks willing to cover various topics, including drag racing, technical
q/a, how to, etc. Reader's Cars can be done with an extensive survey form and
good photography. Remember, we span the globe, as somebody already pointed
out.
The editor has to convert all your rambling writings into good English (we
editors call it making chicken salad out of chicken shit), and this takes
considerable time. Most of you are pretty good writers and take a lot of
care with your posts to this group, but...well, let's just say that everything
needs to be edited and proofread, and that takes time.
In short, it's a great idea but probably not economically feasible. Maybe
if we involved the Diamond Star people to bring in Talons and Eclipses, or
talked to Mitsubishi about corporate sponsorship of the pub, it might have
a chance.
Still, if somebody wants to act as Publisher and deal with the financial
issues, and somebody else wanted to be the graphics artist/designer, I'd
be willing to work as the editor.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
If we need more subscribers what about the possibility of moving this
towards more of a twin turbo basis? Instead of going to the DSM guys, what
about the Supra's, 300ZX's, and RX7's, I'm sure you could find your
advertiser's capitol in those groups. Not to mention each of those guy's
subscribers. That would easily double or tripe out consumer base.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
At 08:40 AM 12/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I'd like to hear what Rich
Merritt has to say about the amount of work
>that would be involved in
putting together a magazine, either on a
>quarterly print basis or
electronically.
If we distribute it electronically as a PDF file, then only a small percent
of the readers can print the glorious color photos. And who wants to print
32 pages on a color printer? Until they start turning computer monitors on
their sides so pages are more readable, electronic mags will never make it. It'd
be a nice novelty for one or two issues, then it would die from lack of
interest.
To support a print edition, we have to sell ads. The value of an ad is
based on the number of subscribers and their demographics. We'd need to do
a little research here to see what we have. The Slow Ol' Farmer Dude and I
thought about starting a magazine for open tracking, and we did some research
into demographics of open trackers. It was AMAZING. Those dudes with M3s
and ZO6s make tons of money. We found a core of about 10,000 very rich
racers. Even so, we didn't start a mag. Who knows what we'll find amongst our
folks?
If we shoot for a 32 page quarterly, it will probably need 16 pages of ads
to pay for production, printing, postage, and all the other expenses
involved.
Paul (Desert Fox) says he has software to calculate costs. So, Mr. Fox,
what would it cost to print 32 pages at various runs, say 1,000 to 10,000
copies?
>From this, we can determine the per-page charge, and bounce it
off
>companies most likely to advertise. The 3Sers who have little garage
>shop operations selling strut braces are not going to pay for this
mag.
>They might buy fractional ads in the back, but they most likely
will
>not pay $2,000 or more for a full page color ad. Those will have to
>come from companies like Tires Plus or Stillen.
Somebody has to take on the task of selling ads. That person is called a
publisher.
Photography has to be improved. What we see on web sites is not good enough
for print. We would have to shoot film and convert (which costs
money)
or ask for digital photos with 300 dpi resolution. Those great photos you see in
magazines are not taken with a $5 throwaway camera. In many cases, those
are large format film cameras or 4 Megapixel digitals.
I would assign Chuck Willis the racing column, Roger Gerl the European
column, and...oops...Getting ahead of myself here. Still, we need to find
folks willing to cover various topics, including drag racing, technical
q/a, how to, etc. Reader's Cars can be done with an extensive survey form and
good photography. Remember, we span the globe, as somebody already pointed
out.
The editor has to convert all your rambling writings into good English (we
editors call it making chicken salad out of chicken shit), and this takes
considerable time. Most of you are pretty good writers and take a lot of
care with your posts to this group, but...well, let's just say that everything
needs to be edited and proofread, and that takes time.
In short, it's a great idea but probably not economically feasible. Maybe
if we involved the Diamond Star people to bring in Talons and Eclipses, or
talked to Mitsubishi about corporate sponsorship of the pub, it might have
a chance.
Still, if somebody wants to act as Publisher and deal with the financial
issues, and somebody else wanted to be the graphics artist/designer, I'd
be willing to work as the editor.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:08:19 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
One of the things I've noticed in my very limited exposure to the Import
car mags is that they cater to the young and seemingly literate --- lots
and lots of pictures but very little print. Seems like the youth of
America like to look at the pretty pictures and read a few stats. Pictures, as
pointed out by Rich are not easily done, good equipment and a better
photographer are required and that means a rather large travel budget for
the taker of pictures. You can't just tell the owner of a featured vehicle to
send in some pictures suitable for print. I'd like to see some tech
articles but they don't seem very popular in the print world.
IMHO a print magazine would be a tough sell. Even though the demographics
may show a bunch of money floating around you'd still have to compete with
the internet which is a damn cheap medium. About the only practical way
would be to do an online mag with mostly volunteer help.
Jim Berry
===================================================
> At 08:40 AM 12/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >I'd like to hear
what Rich Merritt has to say about the amount of
> >work that would be
involved in putting together a magazine,
either on a quarterly print basis or
electronically.
>
> If we distribute it electronically as a PDF
file, then only a small
> percent of the readers can print the glorious
color photos.
And who wants to print 32 pages on a color printer? Until they
start turning computer monitors on their sides so pages are more readable,
electronic mags will never make it. It'd be a nice novelty for one or two
issues, then it would die from lack of interest.
------------------------------
At 10:08 PM 12/10/02 -0800, fastmax wrote:
>One of the things I've
noticed in my very limited exposure to the
>Import car mags is that they
cater to the young and seemingly literate
>--- lots and lots of pictures
but very little print. Seems like the
>youth of America like to look at
the pretty pictures and read a few
>stats.
Yes, this is the latest style in magazines today. America's youth does not
like to read. A Marque Magazine, however, appeals to a different
kind of reader -- one that devours every word and saves the mag forever.
>IMHO a print magazine would be a tough sell. Even though the
>demographics may show a bunch of money floating around you'd still have
>to compete with the internet which is a damn cheap medium. About the
>only practical way would be to do an online mag with mostly volunteer
>help.
Or get the support of a sugar daddy sponsor, such as Mitsubishi. Who is
behind BMW's Roundel magazine? BMW?
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:30:08 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Yeah. It's "Cabo Joe" (bullshitter extraordinaire Joe Privateer) and his
car.
3SI.org folks should remember this wabo yahoo. Read the article and
you'll
see he has not changed. "I can easily leave a 360 Modena at 170 mph.
By
activating the hardtop convertible, all of the women, **including
yours**,
become anxious for some extreme fun 'n' sun!!" (Emphasis added).
What a
disgrace to the 3S community!
- ---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:31:39 -0800
From:
"Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:42:21 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> Paul (Desert Fox) says he has software to calculate costs. So, Mr.
> Fox, what would it cost to print 32 pages at various runs, say 1,000
> to 10,000 copies?
I'll quote out several print counts when I get in to the office today.
10,000 would be the most economical per copy of course but that is quite a
few subscribers.
The postage is what will be spendy. Depending on the percentage of
advertising, the periodical may or may not be eligible for third class
postage. Advertisers generally get a first class copy mailed to them to
see the fruit of their expense.
We deal with inferior images sent in from clients on a daily basis and as
you pointed out, would be our major quality control issue. The still image
shot with someone's camcorder won't cut it nor will digital images with
low resolution. 3 megapixel digital cameras (or better) will do fine, provided
the photographer knows how to setup their camera, for full page bleed
images. Prints or slides are preferable so that we could scan them and
have a hard copy for color correction.
While I like this idea, I must say that after working in the print
publishing business for over 10 years, personally I prefer media that the
post office doesn't have their hands on. After setting up 4 ISP's with
DSL, dialup and wireless, I prefer internet connections that avoid the
Telco!
We'll see how things look after I quote out the printing and postage. Those
numbers will determine the amount of advertising that will need to be sold
to make this periodical practical. My quote will be for printing to a web
press, saddle stitched (staples doing the binding) on glossy paper with
process colors (CMYK) using computer to plate technology, bypassing all
film stages. Any advertiser's with camera ready ads already on film will
be accommodated by digitizing their materials. Any wild inks like Pantone
metallics or day glow that add 5th and/or 6th colors cost additional.
Heavier papers cost more to print on and to mail.
My main weapons are QuarkXPress, Photoshop, Illustrator and Freehand.
Accepting materials in PageMaker, InDesign and other layout programs will
cause delays. Acrobat PDF files work fine, provided they are setup for
hi-res printing, which most people don't seem to have quite figured out. All of
these are factors that would effect the quote and final costs.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4 - cover shot
material;-)
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit - potential eye candy filler
formerly reasonable and prudent, now quoting periodicals
------------------------------
There's already a Turbo magazine that pretty much ignores us. I think
including the DSM guys and non-turbo 3S is worthwhile. No reason we
couldn't include COMPARISON articles describing 300ZX, RX7s, Supras, as
long as each article had major 3S or DSM content. BTW remember that
the GSX has but one turbo.
Any advantage to setting up the magazine as a non-profit entity? Or
is that just a bigger hassle?
Chuck
If we need more subscribers what about the possibility of moving this
towards more of a twin turbo basis? Instead of going to the DSM guys, what
about the Supra's, 300ZX's, and RX7's, I'm sure you could find your
advertiser's capitol in those groups. Not to mention each of those guy's
subscribers. That would easily double or tripe out consumer base.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:54:29 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Or we could all follow the link to Jeff's comprehensive review of what's
already been printed... My personal favorite solution!;-)
Actually, it would be fun and cool to have a rag with some super-sweet
specimens to drool on. I just wonder how many we'd be able to push?
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
>Any advantage to setting up the magazine as a non-profit entity?
Or is
>that just a bigger hassle?
>
>Chuck
There is no question that it will be nonprofit. Setting it up that way just
gets us lower postage costs.
Rich
------------------------------
>Desert Fox says:
>While I like this idea, I must say that after
working in the print
>publishing business for over 10 years
<snip>... My main weapons are
>QuarkXPress, Photoshop, Illustrator
and Freehand.
Sounds like we found us an art director who knows what he's doing with
print pubs. So who will be the publisher?
By the bye, don't expect to see a mag anytime soon. 9 months from now
maybe. These things take time.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:21:27 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> There's already a Turbo magazine that pretty much ignores us. I
think
> including the DSM guys and non-turbo 3S is worthwhile. No
reason we
> couldn't include COMPARISON articles describing 300ZX, RX7s,
Supras,
> as long as each article had major 3S or DSM content. BTW
remember
> that the GSX has but one turbo.
>
> Any advantage
to setting up the magazine as a non-profit entity? Or
> is that
just a bigger hassle?
Believe me, if the numbers are anything like I'm thinking, there won't be
any profit involved...
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:24:53 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
>> Desert Fox says:
>> While I like this idea, I must say
that after working in the print
>> publishing business for over 10
years <snip>... My main weapons are
>> QuarkXPress, Photoshop,
Illustrator and Freehand.
>
> Sounds like we found us an art
director who knows what he's doing with
> print pubs. So who will be the
publisher?
>
> By the bye, don't expect to see a mag anytime soon.
9 months from now
> maybe. These things take time.
Actually I'm more the publisher than the art director. But thank you very
much, I guess...
And yes, there is not a button on the keyboard that one pushes to assemble
a new periodical from scratch. 9 months is a bit pessimistic yet
real.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:52:50 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Bitchin, we're starting to select staff. I'll be the guy that photographs
scantly clad girls on the hood of the cars. I'll pay $150 per issue to be
the girlie photog and that's my final offer.
Jim Berry
==============================================
> on 12/11/02 8:08 AM,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net at
>
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
scribbled:
>
> > Sounds like we found us an art director who
knows what he's doing
> > with print pubs. So who will be the
publisher?
> >
> > By the bye, don't expect to see a mag
anytime soon. 9 months from
> > now maybe. These things take
time.
>
> Actually I'm more the publisher than the art director.
But thank you
> very much, I guess...
>
> And yes, there is
not a button on the keyboard that one pushes to
> assemble a new
periodical from scratch. 9 months is a bit pessimistic
> yet real.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:11:48 -0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
WOW Jeff...you are THE MAN!!!
Not only do you have one of the best laid out technical websites I've every
seen but now you pop up with an incredible listing of magazine articles.
Someone who's been following this thread had just sent me a private e-mail
asking how many of the old mags I have. Naturally, as our "old poop Rich"
pointed out, some of us "elders" are packrats (and
literate) so I've
kept every magazine that had an article on 3000GTs. However, I don't have
anywhere NEAR the number that you have listed.
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
[mailto:jlucius@stealth316.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:30
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Yeah. It's "Cabo Joe" (bullshitter extraordinaire Joe Privateer) and his
car.
3SI.org folks should remember this wabo yahoo. Read the article and
you'll
see he has not changed. "I can easily leave a 360 Modena at 170 mph.
By
activating the hardtop convertible, all of the women, **including
yours**,
become anxious for some extreme fun 'n' sun!!" (Emphasis added).
What a
disgrace to the 3S community!
- ---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:31:39 -0800
From:
"Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
While we're all going off on a 3S magazine, has anyone noticed that there
is actually a 3000GT VR-4 Spyder in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street
Car Challenge this year?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:19:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Jim,
You have a deal...
I will be the guy that interviews the girls
and
chooses which scantily clad ones Jim gets to
photograph :)
My #1 question for this rag is...
What is it's purpose?
Whom do you serve? (Lord of the Rings takeoff)...
Anyway, if we have
available articles all over the
internet with how to's and current upgrade
options...
We have pictures galore... just go on 3SI and follow
the "show
me your ride" threads....
What would this journal do? All that effort for
something that we
already have access to?
Roger L
F15DOC
- --- fastmax <
fastmax@cox.net>
wrote:
> Bitchin, we're starting to select staff. I'll be the
> guy
that photographs scantly clad girls on the hood
> of the cars. I'll pay
$150 per issue to be the girlie
> photog and that's my final
offer.
>
> Jim
Berry ==============================================
------------------------------
>To support a print edition, we have to sell ads. The value of an ad
is
based on the >number of subscribers and their demographics. We'd need
to do a little research here to >see what we have. The Slow Ol' Farmer
Dude and I thought about starting a magazine for >open tracking, and we
did some research into demographics of open trackers. It was >AMAZING. Those
dudes with M3s and ZO6s make tons of money. We found a core of about
>10,000 very rich racers. Even so, we didn't start a mag. Who knows
what we'll find amongst our folks?
I posted a link to some 3S racing videos two weeks ago to five large and
small 3S email lists, along with my computer survey that I needed to have
filled out. I used pretty much all of the 3S lists out there with the
exception of small local 3S lists and the 3Si.org list, which could be a biggie.
The response was a little lower than I thought. I though everyone would
want to watch some free 3S videos, but I got 500 unique clicks, out of
which 200 filled out the survey. That was great and more than enough for my
class (thanks to everyone who did that!), but for a printed publication
200 subscribers is not that many. Maybe adding the 3Si.org list could have
increased that number to 400. My assumption is that approximately the same 40%
who volunteered to fill out the survey would also have interest in buying
a printed publication.
I have all the aggregate demographics data if someone wants to seriously
look at the potential subscriber's base. I am kind of on the borderline of
breaking the promise of not disclosing this data for commercial purposes,
so if someone is against it, then let me know and I will keep it sealed. I think
that using this aggregate data for the non-profit car club publication
purposes should be fine.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:20:23 +0000
From: "Joshua Keena" <
teamkeena@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines
Volume of messages regarding a 3S periodical is inspiring. Roger
questioned what the hardcopy would offer that the digest and digital
correspondence does not. A 3S "newsletter" would offer a refined
"condensed" version of the plethora of information currently
offered.
However, if talk is cheap, e-mail is even cheaper.
At most, I see 500 interested subscription purchasers. With this
volume, printing and postage make a full-blown magazine economically
unrealistic. If we do this, a quarterly journal, printed b/w on 8.5x11,
with a color cover featuring an attractive specimen, is a solid start and
appropriate compromise.
Volunteerism is the preferred technique of soliciting support. My
proposed organization of the newsletter is as follows. Numbers in
brackets following each respective area represent pages of print dedicated to
the section. 1. Subscriptions [2, cover photo and back page]
2. Tech. (to include, body, chassis, engine/drivetrain,
electrical)[6] 3. Racing (drag, track) [4] 4. Touring [2] 5.
Merchandise (to include mods, upgrades, aftermarket parts)[3] 6.
Social/Club (events, shows)[3] *tech. articles would require solid
documentation. That makes 20 pages, 10 front and back (8 b/w = 16 pages, 2 color
= 4 pages, color reserved for subscriptions and merchandising).
B/w could include simple photos. Objective is to have the first journal out
for Spring 2003.
Thoughts, volunteers, please contact me.
Thank you for your time.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:21:42 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
As far as that goes, we aren't looking to start our very own publication
firm, we just want to cater to a small specific crowd that appreciates the
limited availability of publications on their vehicles. This doesn't have
to be cosmopolitan ?sp? quality layout and photography, someone with a 3-4 meg
digi camera that knows the basics of photography and lighting would do
fine. I bet we can find someone in every state in the country, not to
mention world wide that has this kind of know-how to volunteer. Hell anyone who
took a semester of photography in high school and didn't flunk would be
able to suit our needs. We're not competing with other mediums, we
wouldn't be competing at all, this would be done on a mostly volunteer basis
with subscriptions and advertisements paying for the prints. If it does
get going well enough that we are making money, profits should go to
something the entire group will enjoy, possibly prizes for someone writing
a good column or article, but should not be viewed as a commissioned
position.
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
One of the things I've noticed in my very limited exposure to the Import
car mags is that they cater to the young and seemingly literate --- lots
and lots of pictures but very little print. Seems like the youth of
America like to look at the pretty pictures and read a few stats. Pictures, as
pointed out by Rich are not easily done, good equipment and a better
photographer are required and that means a rather large travel budget for
the taker of pictures. You can't just tell the owner of a featured vehicle to
send in some pictures suitable for print. I'd like to see some tech
articles but they don't seem very popular in the print world.
IMHO a print magazine would be a tough sell. Even though the demographics
may show a bunch of money floating around you'd still have to compete with
the internet which is a damn cheap medium. About the only practical way
would be to do an online mag with mostly volunteer help.
Jim Berry
===================================================
> At 08:40 AM 12/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >I'd like to hear
what Rich Merritt has to say about the amount of
> >work that would be
involved in putting together a magazine,
either on a quarterly print basis or
electronically.
>
> If we distribute it electronically as a PDF
file, then only a small
> percent of the readers can print the glorious
color photos.
And who wants to print 32 pages on a color printer? Until they
start turning computer monitors on their sides so pages are more readable,
electronic mags will never make it. It'd be a nice novelty for one or two
issues, then it would die from lack of interest.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:25:46 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Our Marque Magazine
Exactly, we would have to agree to do a story or an article on one of their
new cars every publication probably, or a comparison to other vehicles or
something of that nature, but hey, with 4 different SUV's and hopefully a
4 door sports sedan arriving soon, that's quite a bit for a 320 hp GTO sports
car club to talk about! Heheh.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:37 PM
Subject: Team3S: Our Marque Magazine
At 10:08 PM 12/10/02 -0800, fastmax wrote:
>One of the things I've
noticed in my very limited exposure to the
>Import car mags is that they
cater to the young and seemingly literate
>--- lots and lots of pictures
but very little print. Seems like the
>youth of America like to look at
the pretty pictures and read a few
>stats.
Yes, this is the latest style in magazines today. America's youth does not
like to read. A Marque Magazine, however, appeals to a different
kind of reader -- one that devours every word and saves the mag forever.
>IMHO a print magazine would be a tough sell. Even though
the
>demographics may show a bunch of money floating around you'd still
have
>to compete with the internet which is a damn cheap medium. About
the
>only practical way would be to do an online mag with mostly volunteer
>help.
Or get the support of a sugar daddy sponsor, such as Mitsubishi. Who is
behind BMW's Roundel magazine? BMW?
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:29:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Guess we will have to have a "Ride of the Month" or
"Ride of the
Quarter" depending on publication
frequency.
May I suggest a sweet 1995 VR4 :)
Of course, this is before the 99 Front End Conversion,
but I live in
Washington, we haven't had sunshine for
pictures in quite awhile!
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:31:34 -0800
From: "eK2mfg" <
eK2mfg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Magazines
So the guy who makes and sell let's say EGR block-off plates. Could he if
he were so inclined do a tech article on install and pro's and con's for
the rag? Maybe some other stuff he sells as well? Or maybe put a donation
for a tiny corner on one page to advertise his stuff? Or should I just get silly
and tape these lock-off to a Hooter's girl of the week and have them cover
her privates? Now, that would sell some stuff for sure. If this is going
to roll then I am interested in hat aspect of it. However paying 600.00 for a
3 sec. spot in an Exit Light video is not my plan.
Future sponsor of the rag
bobk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:30:10 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: FS: G Tech performance meter/PRO
I keep trying to post this but it's not coming up!!
A buddy of
mine gave this to me because he went to the drag strip too frequently to worry
about using it. It's in used working condition with meter, windshield
bracket, and user's manual. The windshield bracket needs new Velcro
probably, its lost its stick I guess, but other than that you should be ready to
plug and play. Looks like they're going for around $75 used. Let me know
if anyone is interested privately please.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:24:50 -0500
From: "David, Jon (J)" <
JDavid@dow.com>
Subject: Team3S: TMO
delivery problems? Reply privately
I ordered a TechnoMotive Datalogger cable and software for my 92 VR-4. I've
been waiting a long time for this stuff. Have tried to call many times and
have e-mailed 3 times with no response. Has anyone else had a similarly
long wait for the TMO order? Thanks,
Jon David
Blk 92 VR-4 (Stock for now)
Red 91 VR-4 (parts car)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:37:25 -0600
From: "Jim Buckner" <
JimBuckner@multipro.com>
Subject:
Team3S: dealership screwup
Good morning, all.
To refresh, I had the 60k service done at 120k by a
dealer on my 92 VR4. They mis-timed the engine, 3 times. The first
time, I drove about 4k miles. They also cleaned the intake with some solution
they let sit overnight. After the first time, the turbos starting whining,
never heard this before. Within 1k miles after I picked up the car, it
locked up, spun bearings, pieces of valve guide in the oil pan. I had an
oil analysis done, water was high at .14%, lead was high at 70 PPM,
calcium 1896 PPM, and Silicon high at 14 PPM. I am taking the dealer
to small claims court. I need any and all recommendations or experiences
from you guys, the experts on these engines. I need all the ammo I can
get. How would the engine being out of time lead to bottom end
failure, such as metal contamination, etc. The engine was in great shape,
small amount of smoke after idling for several minutes. Thanks for
your help!
jimbuckner@multipro.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:38:57 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Trust me, we would have plenty! I've got two show quality GT's up here in
the PNW already, and I'm sure there's lost more out there.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
Sent: Wednesday,
December 11, 2002 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
Or we could all follow the link to Jeff's comprehensive review of what's
already been printed... My personal favorite solution!;-)
Actually, it would be fun and cool to have a rag with some super-sweet
specimens to drool on. I just wonder how many we'd be able to push?
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:38:57 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Is there any breaks for setting it up as non profit as far as postage or
anything? I never thought about the taxation side of things, I suppose
they would try to tax us wouldn't they? We would have to copyright it and
everything else too wouldn't we?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11,
2002 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
There's already a Turbo magazine that pretty much ignores us. I think
including the DSM guys and non-turbo 3S is worthwhile. No reason we
couldn't include COMPARISON articles describing 300ZX, RX7s, Supras, as
long as each article had major 3S or DSM content. BTW remember that
the GSX has but one turbo.
Any advantage to setting up the magazine as a non-profit entity? Or
is that just a bigger hassle?
Chuck
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
[mailto:BlackLight@planetice.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:10
AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
If we need more subscribers what about the possibility of moving this
towards more of a twin turbo basis? Instead of going to the DSM guys, what
about the Supra's, 300ZX's, and RX7's, I'm sure you could find your
advertiser's capitol in those groups. Not to mention each of those guy's
subscribers. That would easily double or tripe out consumer base.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:43:03 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I wouldn't mind organizing things as far as basic publishing, if that is
finding what articles to do and dealing with advertisers and such. I don't
have experience with it, so if someone does please step up. Otherwise I'm
willing to help wherever I can. I know my way around pretty well but I would be
more comfortable with someone with more experience behind this.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
>Desert Fox says:
>While I like this idea, I must say that after
working in the print
>publishing business for over 10 years
<snip>... My main weapons are
>QuarkXPress, Photoshop, Illustrator
and Freehand.
Sounds like we found us an art director who knows what he's doing
with
print pubs. So who will be the publisher?
By the bye, don't expect to see a mag anytime soon. 9 months from
now
maybe. These things take time.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:49:51 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines
> Volume of messages regarding a 3S periodical is inspiring. Roger
questioned
> what the hardcopy would offer that the digest and digital
correspondence
> does not. A 3S "newsletter" would offer a refined
"condensed" version of
> the plethora of information currently
offered.
> However, if talk is cheap, e-mail is even cheaper.
> At
most, I see 500 interested subscription purchasers. With this
volume,
> printing and postage make a full-blown magazine economically
unrealistic.
> If we do this, a quarterly journal, printed b/w on 8.5x11,
with a color
> cover featuring an attractive specimen, is a solid start
and appropriate
> compromise.
> Volunteerism is the preferred
technique of soliciting support. My proposed
> organization of the
newsletter is as follows. Numbers in brackets following
> each
respective area represent pages of print dedicated to the section.
>
1. Subscriptions [2, cover photo and back page]
> 2. Tech. (to
include, body, chassis, engine/drivetrain, electrical)[6]
> 3.
Racing (drag, track) [4]
> 4. Touring [2]
> 5.
Merchandise (to include mods, upgrades, aftermarket parts)[3]
> 6.
Social/Club (events, shows)[3]
> *tech. articles would require solid
documentation.
> That makes 20 pages, 10 front and back (8 b/w = 16 pages,
2 color = 4 pages,
> color reserved for subscriptions and
merchandising).
> B/w could include simple photos. Objective is to have
the first journal out
> for Spring 2003.
You can go that route but the rags with color on every page are what
will
sell best.
If we can live with the cover being the same weight as the main pages,
it
will be less expensive to print and mail, even if it was a single 32 page
4
color form. Even the articles sell better and look better with
color.
Additionally, if you charge the advertisers for color, then they
pickup the
tab on that while your editorial can have color for free, or at
least cheap.
We are dealing with multiples of 4 pages here; covers are 4
pages, then we
have 8, 16 and 32 page signatures to deal with. 20 pages works
out pretty
well, 24 pages is expensive. 32 pages is a good size, or 36 with a
heavier
cover paper.
We ditched our color editorials at one point many years ago in an attempt
to
save money and it proved to save little.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:25:47 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: dealership screwup
Jim, I'm not going to comment on the technical engine stuff since I
didn't
know that a timing problem could result in a spun bearing... Matter of
fact,
I look forward to reading some of the replies from people who know
this
stuff more.
Far as Small Claims, I can give you a few pointers.
#1 Your biggest problem will be to serve papers (subpoena) to the party
you
are taking to court. You cant just put it in the mail, certified letter
does
not work ether unless that specific person signed for it. DO NOT tell
them
you are taking them to court or they will dodge every suspicious letter.
For
me it got so bad that I had to use one of my friends to pose as a courier
to
get a signature.
#2 Figure out whom is legally responsible for your damages. You cannot
put
the mechanic's name because he is working for someone. You cannot put
Mitsu
USA because they don't own the dealership. Figure out whom owns it and
put
AS MANY NAMES and entities on the papers as you can. This will ensure
that
you will not get blown off if they go "Mr. Goldstein is no longer
the
president of this dealership."
#3 Go to small claims a few times before your court date, sit up front
and
take notes. You will learn A LOT on what to do and what NOT to do!
Also,
judges like that too and they will remember your face.
#4 Few days before the trial try to figure out whom your judge will be.
Go
to one of her/his hearings. Every judge has his/her own quirks. Some
have
more tolerance for us simpletons than others.
#5 At court you want to have as much paperwork and documentation with you
as
possible. But make SURE that you can find anything you need in a
few
seconds. Judges hate waiting for you to shuffle through papers. Dress
nice,
do not speak in slang, pretend to be an educated man :)
#6 Around here before your hearing the judges often ask if you would like
to
try mediation. They have a trained mediator there and you basically sit
in
the back room and see if you can work out a deal with the other party.
Even
if you are not willing to give up an inch, go there, it looks better.
Its
only a few minutes and you still get to have your hearing same day.
#7 Always refer to the other party as "The Defendant". Its a
physiological
thing and it sounds good.
#8 The judge will want a lot of your paperwork to be submitted
into
evidence. Make copies ahead of time. Go somewhere to make copies,
the
courthouse here charges $.25 per copy.
That's about it,
Tyson
------------------------------
Yes, like color rags are what I would buy, I'd rather print it out on
my
PC and staple it together and take it to work with me than have to
thumb
through that B&W newspaper quality crap, it's just annoying!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
Sent: Wednesday,
December 11, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines
> Volume of messages regarding a 3S periodical is inspiring. Roger
> questioned what the hardcopy would offer that the digest and digital
> correspondence does not. A 3S "newsletter" would offer a refined
> "condensed" version of the plethora of information currently offered.
> However, if talk is cheap, e-mail is even cheaper. At most, I see 500
> interested subscription purchasers. With this volume, printing
and
> postage make a full-blown magazine economically unrealistic. If we
do
> this, a quarterly journal, printed b/w on 8.5x11, with a color cover
> featuring an attractive specimen, is a solid start and appropriate
> compromise. Volunteerism is the preferred technique of soliciting
> support. My proposed organization of the newsletter is as
follows.
> Numbers in brackets following each respective area
represent pages of
> print dedicated to the section. 1.
Subscriptions [2, cover photo and
> back page] 2. Tech. (to
include, body, chassis, engine/drivetrain,
> electrical)[6] 3.
Racing (drag, track) [4]
> 4. Touring [2]
> 5.
Merchandise (to include mods, upgrades, aftermarket parts)[3]
> 6.
Social/Club (events, shows)[3]
> *tech. articles would require solid
documentation.
> That makes 20 pages, 10 front and back (8 b/w = 16 pages,
2 color = 4
pages,
> color reserved for subscriptions and
merchandising).
> B/w could include simple photos. Objective is to have
the first
journal out
> for Spring 2003.
You can go that route but the rags with color on every page are
what
will sell best.
If we can live with the cover being the same weight as the main
pages,
it will be less expensive to print and mail, even if it was a single
32
page 4 color form. Even the articles sell better and look better
with
color. Additionally, if you charge the advertisers for color, then
they
pickup the tab on that while your editorial can have color for free,
or
at least cheap. We are dealing with multiples of 4 pages here;
covers
are 4 pages, then we have 8, 16 and 32 page signatures to deal with.
20
pages works out pretty well, 24 pages is expensive. 32 pages is a
good
size, or 36 with a heavier cover paper.
We ditched our color editorials at one point many years ago in
an
attempt to save money and it proved to save little.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:33:37 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dealership screwup
Deja vu?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Buckner
[mailto:JimBuckner@multipro.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:37
PM
Subject: Team3S: dealership screwup
Good morning, all.
To refresh, I had the 60k service done at 120k by a dealer on my 92
VR4.
They mis-timed the engine, 3 times. The first time, I drove about
4k
miles.
They also cleaned the intake with some solution they let sit
overnight.
After the first time, the turbos starting whining, never heard
this
before.
Within 1k miles after I picked up the car, it locked up, spun
bearings,
pieces of valve guide in the oil pan. I had an oil analysis
done, water
was high at .14%, lead was high at 70 PPM, calcium 1896 PPM, and
Silicon
high at 14 PPM. I am taking the dealer to small claims
court. I need any and
all recommendations or experiences from you guys,
the experts on these
engines.
I need all the ammo I can get. How would the engine being out of
time
lead to bottom end failure, such as metal contamination, etc. The engine
was
in great shape, small amount of smoke after idling for several
minutes.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:34:17 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dealership screwup
#8 do not let you emotions get the best of you, speak in a calm and
even
tone, try to avoid sarcasm. Do not let yourself get baited into
angry
outburst, it does nothing for your cause.
#9 Bring a clear list of what you want to rectify your problem/loss.
Have
competitive dealer estimates for parts an labor to have your car
fixed.
Also try and request that another dealer fix your car and they
reimburse
that dealer directly (makes it look like you aren't out for money,
but just
looking to be done right by)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:26
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dealership screwup
Far as Small Claims, I can give you a few pointers.
#5 At court you want to have as much paperwork and documentation with you
as
possible. But make SURE that you can find anything you need in a
few
seconds. Judges hate waiting for you to shuffle through papers. Dress
nice,
do not speak in slang, pretend to be an educated man :)
#6 Around here before your hearing the judges often ask if you would like
to
try mediation. They have a trained mediator there and you basically sit
in
the back room and see if you can work out a deal with the other party.
Even
if you are not willing to give up an inch, go there, it looks better.
Its
only a few minutes and you still get to have your hearing same day.
#7 Always refer to the other party as "The Defendant". Its a
physiological
thing and it sounds good.
#8 The judge will want a lot of your paperwork to be submitted
into
evidence. Make copies ahead of time. Go somewhere to make copies,
the
courthouse here charges $.25 per copy.
That's about it,
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:41:51 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dealership screwup
and #10, always address the Court, not your opponent. It's the
judge
you need to convince, not your adversary.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell
[mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:34
PM
To: 'Tigran Varosyan'; 'Jim Buckner'; 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S:
dealership screwup
#8 do not let you emotions get the best of you, speak in a calm
and
even tone, try to avoid sarcasm. Do not let yourself get baited
into angry
outburst, it does nothing for your cause.
#9 Bring a clear list of what you want to rectify your
problem/loss.
Have competitive dealer estimates for parts an labor to have
your car fixed.
Also try and request that another dealer fix your car and
they reimburse
that dealer directly (makes it look like you aren't out for
money, but
just looking to be done right by)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:26
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dealership screwup
Far as Small Claims, I can give you a few pointers.
#5 At court you want to have as much paperwork and documentation
with
you as possible. But make SURE that you can find anything you need in a
few
seconds. Judges hate waiting for you to shuffle through papers.
Dress
nice, do not speak in slang, pretend to be an educated man :)
#6 Around here before your hearing the judges often ask if you
would
like to try mediation. They have a trained mediator there and you
basically sit
in the back room and see if you can work out a deal with the
other party.
Even if you are not willing to give up an inch, go there, it
looks better.
Its only a few minutes and you still get to have your hearing
same day.
#7 Always refer to the other party as "The Defendant". Its
a
physiological thing and it sounds good.
#8 The judge will want a lot of your paperwork to be submitted
into
evidence. Make copies ahead of time. Go somewhere to make copies,
the
courthouse here charges $.25 per copy.
That's about it,
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: dealership screwup
#1a - It's more expensive, but a process server can be
used. I've
used twice. Once was $40, the second
wanted $85.
Glenn
> Far as Small Claims, I can give you a few pointers.
>
>
#1 Your biggest problem will be to serve papers
> (subpoena) to the party
you
> are taking to court.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:23:59 -0500
From: "David, Jon (J)" <
JDavid@dow.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Wastegate solenoid clicking
I checked mine and found a soft, non-stop, ticking. I thought that they
only worked during boost as a way of controlling vacuum to the waste gate.
If so, then why at a non-boost time like idle would they be opening and
closing that much (3-5 ticks a sec). Just wondering what the ECU is thinking.
Thanks,
Jon David
Indiana
Blk 92 VR-4 (stock)
Red 91 VR-4 (parts
car)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:25:58 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines
Wonder what the volume break-even point is for having someone else do the
color
printing, versus using a color laser printer and doing all the
printing in-house?
AI Nut
Desert Fox wrote:
> on 12/11/02 10:20 AM, Joshua Keena at
teamkeena@hotmail.com scribbled:
>
>>Volume of messages regarding a 3S periodical is inspiring.
Roger questioned
>>what the hardcopy would offer that the digest and
digital correspondence
>>does not. A 3S "newsletter" would offer
a refined "condensed" version of
>>the plethora of information
currently offered.
>>However, if talk is cheap, e-mail is even
cheaper.
>>At most, I see 500 interested subscription purchasers.
With this volume,
>>printing and postage make a full-blown magazine
economically unrealistic.
>>If we do this, a quarterly journal, printed
b/w on 8.5x11, with a color
>>cover featuring an attractive specimen,
is a solid start and
appropriate
>>compromise.
><<<snip>>>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:32:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Magazines
Anyone have a connection to a printing company.
My sister and brother in
law own a print shop, a
pretty big one too.... I am not sure if they do
much
full color glossy stuff, I think so.
If they aren't terribly busy and we could be flexible
with publishing
dates to work around their bigger
customers they may be willing to give a
discount on
this, but I really don't want to put them out for
a
freebie....
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:52:20 -0500
From:
songsay@cs.comSubject: Team3S: curb
action
does anyone know what exactly gos on when the "shop" performs a front end
alignment?
songsay
92vr4, finally snow in
alaska
turned the boost down to 5psi
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#22
**************************************