Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, December 10 2002 Volume
02 : Number 021
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:58:04 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Broken air conditioner.
I have a can or two of R12. I'll part with it for $10 a can, but only if
you live near Moreno Valley, CA. Not going to mess with any regulations /
infractions of shipping.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut [mailto:ainut1@telocity.com]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Broken air
conditioner.
There are a couple of good alternatives to R12 which cost a little more
than the
134a, but cool better. I forget how much our cars need,
something like 53
ounces or so? That'd be at least 4 cans so only
about $100 for R12.
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:25:18 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Transfer case recall update
> I would not let a dealer even touch my TC for
> fear that their
stupidity mojo would transfer
> to my car. There is no chance in hell I
would
> let one "reseal" it!
Heh, no kidding. I think if it was severely leaking I'd demand a new
transfer case since damage has likely already been done to the
bearings.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only seal they can replace is the
rear tail shaft
seal, so if it is leaking from somewhere else they'd pretty
much have to
replace it.
> Now if Mitsu wants to offer us a ***better***
> transfer case, I
am all for that. I would even
> pay for it! Until then, I will replace
the
> seals myself if mine (10 years old) ever
> starts
leaking.
The rear seal is easy enough to do when you replace the clutch, or remove
the
transfer case for any reason. If I remember right, the seal was
about $8 and I
used a large socket to tap it in last time I did it.
Has anyone other than me actually fractured the gears inside the transfer
case,
or are the failures typically bearing failures and/or spline
stripping?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:31:20 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
Matt if I am not mistaken Matt M from DR, managed to chew the t-case
internals on 2 separate occasions. f course most of us are not making the
kind of power, nor are we driving our cars as hard as he is.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
mjannusch@attbi.com
[mailto:mjannusch@attbi.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 3:25
PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
The rear seal is easy enough to do when you replace the clutch, or remove
the
transfer case for any reason. If I remember right, the seal was
about $8 and I
used a large socket to tap it in last time I did it.
Has anyone other than me actually fractured the gears inside the transfer
case,
or are the failures typically bearing failures and/or spline
stripping?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
I think if you already paid someone competent to replace the seals, then
you would be in a position to get some reimbursement from the incompetent
dealer.
Chuck
- -----Original Message-----
From:
mjannusch@attbi.com
[mailto:mjannusch@attbi.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:25
PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
> I would not let a dealer even touch my TC for
> fear that their
stupidity mojo would transfer
> to my car. There is no chance in hell I
would
> let one "reseal" it!
Heh, no kidding. I think if it was severely leaking I'd demand a new
transfer case since damage has likely already been done to the
bearings.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only seal they can replace is the
rear tail shaft
seal, so if it is leaking from somewhere else they'd pretty
much have to
replace it.
> Now if Mitsu wants to offer us a ***better***
> transfer case, I
am all for that. I would even
> pay for it! Until then, I will replace
the
> seals myself if mine (10 years old) ever
> starts
leaking.
The rear seal is easy enough to do when you replace the clutch, or remove
the
transfer case for any reason. If I remember right, the seal was
about $8 and I
used a large socket to tap it in last time I did it.
Has anyone other than me actually fractured the gears inside the transfer
case,
or are the failures typically bearing failures and/or spline
stripping?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:05:16 -0500
From: "Rodriguez,
Elpidio x35617d1" <
x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
Ok, so I try to go pick up my car from the wrecker yard and nothing. My car
is not even there. The "owner" of the shop is not in and his "employees" can't
find record of my car being brought there, though that is the shop and address
the trooper gave me. So I go back to the troopers and that particular one does
not come in to work until later on but they insist that wrecker service was the
one that picked up my car. What the f***? I had a tons of other stuff to take
care off today, including another visit to the hospital, so I had to leave it at
that for now. Troopers said they were going to give this guy a call and let me
know.
With that said, I am definitely going to have my T-case looked at first
thing after I get it back. I don't know much about the recall besides what
you all have mentioned already. IF a locked transfer case was the cause of my
accident, would I be able to take legal action against mitsu even though a
"recall" is already on the way supposedly? I can't pretend to know what a locked
transfer case would sound like but I definitely remember a some sort of noise
under the car and the shifter shaking when I shifted. At that point, I was more
concerned about trying to get the car back under control than listening to
particular sounds but I managed to do neither. Well, thanks a lot for all the
"get well" wishes and I'll keep you posted. I got term-ends coming up next week
and then I'm going back home for X-mas so it might be a while before I figure
this whole thing out.
- -E.RDZ
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 22:32:20 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
>> I think if it was severely leaking I'd demand a new transfer case
>> since damage has likely already been done to the bearings.
I am not a lawyer, but the only obligation I see Mitsu taking on in
this "recall" is to remedy a leaking TC, not repairing normal or abnormal
wear
and tear, regardless of cause.
It will be interesting to see how many folks get "new" transfer cases out
of
this or even an acceptable "remedy". Call me a pessimist, but with the
apparent track record to date of dealers successfully installing AWD
transaxles and TC's in our cars, I do not foresee a lot of happy
customers.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:01:49 -0500
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Group buy for the lightest 18x9 wheel you're going to find for the
3/S
Can someone post pics of those wheels? I can't find any on that site,
can you?
Vinny
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday,
December 08, 2002 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Group buy for the lightest
18x9 wheel you're going to find for the 3/S
> You have to PM or e-mail Jay for prices.
>
> Those of
you thinking about buying may want to wait until next week. A
> 3Si
member is opening up a new shop specializing in hard to find
> Japanese
parts.
> If his account with his Japanese distributor goes through we'll
be
> able to get them cheaper than what the group buy is
charging.
>
> Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:02:33 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Group buy for the lightest 18x9 wheel you're going to find for the
3/S
Click on Buddy Club P-1 Racing QF, or at least I think this is them since
it goes out of its way to list weight. Awesome, just need $2500 for new rims to
be 53 pounds lighter where it really counts...
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
> Can someone post pics of those wheels? I can't find any on that
site,
> can you?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:18:37 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Musings After Completed Timing Belt Replacement
Thanks again Rich (Leroy) for the 60k workshop of many moons ago.
Without that, I'd never have attempted it without other experienced people
around. It all went well and the car runs like a champ.
A few random thoughts:
1) There IS a way to get a socket on that @#$% alternator idler
pulley
fixing bolt. You know, the one that's bolted to the engine mount
bracket and has the bolt recessed into the pulley with only 1.5" clearance
between the bolt head and the power steering hard lines? Yeah, THAT
one. If you lower the engine slowly with the engine mount removed and just
let it hang from the other 3 mounts, you can use a 1/4" drive 14mm socket and
get the @#$% bolt off. I didn't see any other way to do it. Unless
someone has a better way, perhaps we should add that to the instructions on the
Team3S web page.
2) When tightening the timing belt tensioner pulley (the one that
the
auto-tensioner pushes on), you can fit a beam-type torque wrench in there
along with the "special" tensioning tool at the same time. You still have
to use a 1/4" drive wrench and some creative socket extensions, but it can be
done.
3) I wonder if you do actually need a torque wrench to tension
the
timing belt. After experimenting with the auto-tensioner and the
torque wrench, the limiting factor on the tension seems to be the auto-tensioner
itself and not the numerical value of the torque on the pulley. Too tight
and the pin is bound because the plunger is pushed inward; too loose and the
plunger is allowed to move too far outward and that again binds the pin. Getting
that pin nice and loose seems to be the major issue. It took 8-9 ft-lbs by
my torque wrench.
4) How the
#@$% to you tighten the @#$%ing
tensioner pulley without
moving it slightly, which increases the belt tension
and binds the @#$% pin? We fought with that thing for at least an hour before we
finally got the fixing bolt tightened to 42ft-lbs without screwing up the belt
tension.
5) We should probably add a warning to the 60k page saying to watch
the
intake and exhaust cams on the front bank when you remove the belt or
loosen the tensioner pulley. At TDC (cyl 1), both the intake and exhaust
cams on the front bank are under tension and want to swing about wildly when the
belt is loosened. The intake cam will actually turn far enough to make the
valves lightly contact the piston surface when the cam moves quickly. They
just barely contact, and the resting position has no contact (they only hit
because the cam will briefly "overshoot" its resting position when it turns
under tension of the valve springs) It happened twice during my experience
this weekend and there was no damage to the valves as confirmed by a compression
test. In any case, the exhaust cam didn't seem to cause any interference
at TDC, but it still wants to turn about 30 degrees or so when the belt is
loosened. The two times that the cams spun without us being prepared were
about 10 seconds after the auto-tensioner was first removed and then again when
we loosened the tensioner pulley as we were preparing to fully tension the new
belt (after the temporary tightening and removal of belt slack) and torque the
pulley down to spec.
6) Marking the timing marks for the cam and crank teeth on the old
belt
and transferring them to the new belt is a *great* idea and gives you
one more way to make sure you have everything on there and tensioned properly.
You *can* do it without marking the belt, but since it takes only 5 minutes or
so, I don't see why anyone wouldn't do it.
7) Compression check on cylinder #1 on this engine ('92
DOHC 6G72 Turbo,
105,000mi) was 160psi. Spec from the factory is
156psi. Sweeeet.
P.S. in case you're wondering... yeah my VR-4 still
has
50k until I have to replace the timing
belt - this
time it was on Elvin's '92
StealthTT with 105,000mi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:39:48 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Musings After Completed Timing Belt Replacement
This is the way I've been doing it for the longest time... but I did have
the chance to work on a later model car doing a 60k... And the pulley in that
one.. the fixing bolt wasn't quite as recessed. There was more then enough
clearance to get an offset box end on the bolt and break it loose. I examined it
for a little wondering if Mitsu actually made a design change after the first
pulley they used.
Omar
92 r/t
- -----Original Message-----
2) When tightening the timing belt
tensioner pulley (the one that the auto-tensioner pushes on), you can fit a
beam-type torque wrench in there along with the "special" tensioning tool at the
same time. You still have to use a 1/4" drive wrench and some creative
socket extensions, but it can be done.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:04:42 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Musings After Completed Timing Belt Replacement
For the alternator idler bolt, I just unbolted the oil line that runs by it
and pushed it up slightly with the ratchet. That way it fit in there.
Alex
<snip>
1) There IS a way to get a socket on that @#$% alternator idler pulley
fixing bolt. You know, the one that's bolted to the engine mount bracket
and has the bolt recessed into the pulley with only 1.5" clearance between the
bolt head and the power steering hard lines? Yeah, THAT one. If you
lower the engine slowly with the engine mount removed and just let it hang from
the other 3 mounts, you can use a 1/4" drive 14mm socket and get the @#$% bolt
off. I didn't see any other way to do it. Unless someone has a
better way, perhaps we should add that to the instructions on the Team3S web
page. </snip>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:13:01 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Musings After Completed Timing Belt Replacement
>>RE: Issue 1: I loosened and moved the power steering hard lines to
do
>>this part. The PITA is that you will need to bleed the power
steering system when you do this. However, as part of the 60k service it may be
a good idea to bleed power steering anyway. Just like the brake system, the
power steering system will eventually get moisture caught in it which will do
nothing good to your pump & rack and pinion.
- ---------->
1) There IS a way to get a socket on that @#$% alternator idler pulley
fixing bolt. You know, the one that's bolted to the engine mount bracket
and has the bolt recessed into the pulley with only 1.5" clearance between the
bolt head and the power steering hard lines? Yeah, THAT one. If you
lower the engine slowly with the engine mount removed and just let it hang from
the other 3 mounts, you can use a 1/4" drive 14mm socket and get the @#$% bolt
off. I didn't see any other way to do it. Unless someone has a
better way, perhaps we should add that to the instructions on the Team3S web
page.
- ----------------->
>> RE: Issues 2 through 4: Yes, I was eventually able to fit a torque
>> wrench in there, but what's the point? Here's the method
that
>> worked better for me:
Use a standard 1/4" drive mini-ratchet (no torque reading capability).
After removing the slack from the timing belt, use your hands to slowly apply
torque to the pulley using the mitsu magic tool and the mini-ratchet until the
auto-tensioner pin is loose. (Recall that the pin is designed to be loose at the
factory spec torque: 7.2 ft. lbs.). Then, get some large tie-wraps and use them
to hold the ratchet at its position to something nearby (I used the opposite end
of the timing belt). The tie wrap, if placed and positioned correctly, will hold
the proper torque for you. In my case, I actually let the tie wrap hold the
torque slightly below spec (maybe 5 or 6 ft lbs.), so that when I tighten the 42
ft-lb. fixing bolt, the tension will not go too tight. I got my rod protrusion
spec very close using this method! It was easy and did not take a second person.
This method also address the #4 item issue that Erik brings up below.
- ----------------->
2) When tightening the timing belt tensioner pulley (the one that the
auto-tensioner pushes on), you can fit a beam-type torque wrench in there along
with the "special" tensioning tool at the same time. You still have to use
a 1/4" drive wrench and some creative socket extensions, but it can be
done.
3) I wonder if you do actually need a torque wrench to tension the
timing belt. After experimenting with the auto-tensioner and the torque
wrench, the limiting factor on the tension seems to be the auto-tensioner itself
and not the numerical value of the torque on the pulley. Too tight and the
pin is bound because the plunger is pushed inward; too loose and the plunger is
allowed to move too far outward and that again binds the pin. Getting that pin
nice and loose seems to be the major issue. It took 8-9 ft-lbs by my
torque wrench.
4) How the
#@$% to you tighten the @#$%ing
tensioner pulley without moving it slightly, which increases the belt tension
and binds the @#$% pin? We fought with that thing for at least an hour before we
finally got the fixing bolt tightened to 42ft-lbs without screwing up the belt
tension.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:36:17 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Transfer case recall update
Regarding E.RDZ's t-case lockup event:
After I took my car to the negligent alignment shop that ruined my AWD
system, my local dealer told me that they heard rattling noises under my car
when they put it up on the rack. Different rattles, rubbing, and banging are
coming from the rear differential, t-case, transaxle, & clutch+flywheel
assemblies. I suppose they came to this conclusion using an automotive
stethoscope. With this in mind (and I know it's already been said)... everyone
be sure to start a schedule for checking all the points mentioned above for
leaks. Change drivetrain fluid every 30k like mentioned on Jeff L's site. And
also add to that schedule to get your cars on the rack with a stethoscope (at
least every third oil change) to make sure there aren't any funny noises. Why?
Because the noises are pretty hard to hear when you're just driving around. Even
during my "final" (and supposedly VERY dangerous) trip to the dealer, my car
didn't sound THAT bad. It sounded like something was up (something minor),
because from inside the passenger cabin...whether the windows are rolled up or
not, everything in our cars just gets muffled. After taking a good look at it,
the mechanic told me WHAT??? YOU DROVE THE CAR HERE LIKE THAT??? and
that if I were to drive that car again, it would
end up in a 4-wheel skid
soon. I'm glad that I at least got fair warning! Now that my car is grounded,
I'm going to pass on the fair warning . . .
One more thing to E.RDZ:
If your transfer case was dealer maintained and under the... 12
months/12,000 mile? mitsu warranty, you may have a chance at some kind of legal
action. Otherwise, don't waste too much of your time on it.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
drivable? no way.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:41:30 -0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Stumped
I'm certainly not an expert on my car but have done a
bit of mechanic
prowess. I upgraded the air filter then
changed my turbo from 9b to 13g and
also had the head rebuilt.
I have had the car running for about a Month and
it seemed to
run fine except for this whooshing noise that I blame on
the
BOV. Now the problems start, I went to get my license renewed
but
needed to get a smog test. I failed. My Hydrocarbon emissions
where to
high. I then took it into the shop that did the rebuild
of the heads to
check it out. I didn't expect that it would be a
problem but it was. They
called me and said during a test ride
the car it stopped running, it was
running fine when I took it
in. I asked what was wrong and they said it was
the MAS, they
could get it running, not good but running by disconnecting
the
MAS. I bit the bullet and asked them to fix it. A new MAS didn't
fix
it. Now they said it must be the computer ECU. They replaced
the ECU,
no luck still only ran with the MAS disconnected. At this
time I said to put
my MAS and computer back in an I would pick up
the car running bad or not
because they couldn't seem to fix it. I
brought it home running poorly with
the MAS disconnected. I then
check out a few thing like the fuses an
inspected harnesses and
all visual things I could think of. It would still
only run with
the MAS disconnected. Today I went back out to keep working
on
it with the book in hand but all the tests seem to be at idle
and now
for some reason after removing several harnesses and
cleaning them with
contact cleaner it won't run at all. I'm
stumped as where to check next. The
fuel system from the tank
to the engine must be fine so it has to be
something else but
I have no idea where to look or what simple checks I could
make
to get at the problem. Any help or ideas would be appreciated
peter 92 Stealth TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:03:07 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Stumped
High HC could be due to a bad or clogged catalytic converter. Did they
check that yet? How about O2 sensors?
Also, you can't conclude that the fuel system is "okay" just because the
car "runs". Did you already do a fuel system cleaning? If you have dirty fuel
injector(s) then the car may move, but will never be able to run well. e.g. one
cylinder runs lean and the knock sensor tells ECU to keep fishing with the
timing even though the other cylinders are okay. More fuel than necessary will
be injected. Car will run rough, yada yada.
If you haven't already, you may consider an on-car fuel & intake system
cleaning if you're tight on time. But better yet, tear apart the whole system
and hand-clean your intake system. Then use Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner in
the engine and send your injectors to RC Engineering for the good ultrasonic
cleaning.
I hate to be the bringer of bad news after the fact, but I don't think
cleaning the way you mentioned was the best idea. The harnesses in our car
supposedly have some kind of special anti-corrosion coating which is so easy to
harm that it's not even recommended to test them with a test probe! Anyway,
check your electrical connections again. If you can't run w.o. disconnecting MAS
then you may also have an intake leak that you somehow didn't notice
before.
Good luck
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
p.s. where are you taking the car? They seem to be pointing fingers
randomly instead of doing a diagnosis. I hope they're going to eat the cost of
that MAS since those things aren't cheap!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:27:48 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case recall update
One thing I will say is that the dealers are paid directly by mitsu to do
this work. That means that whatever takes them longer (swapping it I think will
take longer) is what the dealers will do more often.
Far as legal stuff, I think it is proven now that the case was defective.
The recall is in full effect. You may have some grounds, but talk to a lawyer.
If the damage done to the car is small, you can go to Small Claims. I will bet
that Mitsu wont even bother sending a lawyer down to contest you.
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:45:11 -0500
From: "Rodriguez,
Elpidio x35617d1" <
x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
>>I was released from the hospital today with a broken shoulder
blade, a
broken rib, 2 more bruised ribs, a lung contusion, and a bruised
pelvis
I haven't seen the car and I don't recall much from the accident scene but
with the kind of injuries I sustained, I imagine the damage is substantial. At
this point I could care less about trying to get millions from Mitsu (cause I
know it ain't gonna happen), if anything I would "almost" satisfied if they
accept responsibility for the junk they put in our cars and at least pay for my
car. But all this is just speculation as I am not sure exactly what caused my
car to spin out of control like that. The t-case was not dealer maintained (but
whose is unless it's still under warranty or you're filthy rich to pay satan all
that money). Well, I'll keep you all posted.
- -E.RDZ
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:28
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
One thing I will say is that the dealers are paid directly by mitsu to do
this work. That means that whatever takes them longer (swapping it I think will
take longer) is what the dealers will do more often.
Far as legal stuff, I think it is proven now that the case was defective.
The recall is in full effect. You may have some grounds, but talk to a lawyer.
If the damage done to the car is small, you can go to Small Claims. I will bet
that Mitsu wont even bother sending a lawyer down to contest you.
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:49:31 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Stumped
All the electronic junk aside we are talking about a motor that wont run.
We are not talking about running well, we are not talking about tuning. Lets
first figure out why it does not start at all. Once its running we can
troubleshoot the rest.
#1, go back through everything you pulled and inspect it. Make sure none of
the plugs have broken connectors or sockets or something crossed or gapped where
it should not be. Put everything back in and give it a shot.
Again, all electronic stuff aside, an engine needs fuel, air, compression
and spark to run. Those need to be in right (or anywhere close to right) ratio
and it needs to be timed correctly. Then the engine should turn over on it's own
and then we can troubleshoot the electrical stuff.
Following steps are the easy stuff you can do. If they all check out, let
us know, and I can get more in-depth.
Fuel: Check fuel delivery to the fuel rail. Unhook the fuel line going to
the front fuel rail, put it in a bottle (Fuel will shoot out REALLY fast!) put a
rag over the bottle and preferably have someone standing holding the bottle so
it does not tip over. Crank the car. Fuel should come shooting out of the fuel
line. Check the return line. Unplug the connection going to the back of the fuel
tank right behind the regulator (pass side on rear fuel
rail) and again use a
bottle... If the car starts, you may have a clogged return line. If there is no
fuel coming out or there is not very much fuel coming out, your regulator may be
clogged. Next, unplug one of the connectors going to one of the front injectors
and put a multi-meter on it. I am not sure what voltage you should see, but when
you crank, you should see the needle move. That will tell you if injectors are
firing. If all of that checks out, lets assume fuel delivery is there.
Air: Easy. Take off the MAS, put your hand over the hole, have someone
crank the motor and feel if its sucking air. If it is, you are set.
Compression: Need a compression gauge here. Go buy one or borrow one.
Schucks has em for $40. Test compression on front 3 only. If it looks good
(120-160PSI within 10PSI of one another) then you are set there.
Spark: Take out one of the plugs, PUT A TOWEL OVER THE HOLE, connect the
plug to the plug wire and touch it's side to any metal part of the car. Crank
and you should have spark. If you have a timing light or know someone whom does,
use that. Then you can check if the spark is coming at the right time. On
91-92 which have adjustable CAS, it may have come lose and is sending spark at
the wrong time which would explain the bad emission test and your current
problem.
Those should give you enough to do, let me know how each test goes. Don't
set yourself, your garage, your car or your cat on fire. Gasoline goes BOOM, use
your head :)
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:35:18 -0500
From: "David Thrower" <
repairerr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
Guess what I did stupid on Friday? Pulled my transfer case out and
took it apart! Why? "Clunk" "Clunk" "Tick" "Tick" from the drive train at low
speed. Jacked it up, dropped the driveshaft at the first companion flange and
tried turning the driveshaft into the transfer case, and all it did was growl
and get tight then loose with each revolution. Guess what! The input shaft
bearings are TRASH!!! Know what I'm going to do now after getting this good
news? Put that piece of junk back together, fill it with oil, let it leak all
over the place, take it to satin (when I get my card), and tell them to put a
new one in. If I don't get the satisfaction of a new case, then there will be
hell to pay. I'll let you all know what happens. Dave Thrower
Harrisburg PA. U.S.A. 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:03:34 -0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Stumped
This is in reply to the information and suggestions
already
answered helping to uncover the problem of not
running. Some things you
should know, I have a brand
new fuel filter and also fuel line. I had
the
injectors fully cleaned and not to long ago put in a
new fuel pump. It
must also be getting spark because it
was running when the MAS was unplugged
prior to
everything going down. So fuel or spark must not be
the
problem. I just would like to know what would make
it run with the MAS
disconnected but not connected. I'm
thinking of checking the TPS next or if
anyone knows
of a solenoid that could cause this problem please let
me
know. I could put jumpers across the solenoid if I
knew which one could cause
a problem like that. The
main harness that I've cleaned is the plug to the
TPS,
it is also the one I cleaned prior to it not starting
at all even
with the MAS disconnected. I put MAS in the
search engine and came up with
some one who had a
problem like mine and changed the TPS and it
solved
it.
I wonder if there is a way to bypass it somehow to
find out if it is the
problem, one more thing and this
is also the last thing I did before it quit
running
was plug in the MAS and try to start it and I could
for a brief
second then it would quit; but if I pumped
the peddle I could keep it running
barely....Peter 92
TT stealth.
By the way thanks for the help so
far....
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stumped
The ECU has a diagnostic mode, It was built in for a reason, for when
you're "stumped".
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:17:13 -0600
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Magazines/
3S owner mentality
For some time now I've been scouring the news stands trying to find a good
magazine that has something 3S related... I've tried out the Super Street, Sport
Compact Car, and Import Tuner magazines... To my disappointment, none of these
seem to talk about the 3S at all, and very rarely do the vendors seem to even
have any products available for the 3S. I was wondering, does anyone subscribe
to a good magazine that is aimed at more than just the compact scene? This
leads me to my next question, is it just me, or is everyone else on this list
really
f@$%in' proud that they own a 3S?! I really
love it when I see 18232323423 Civics on the road, and maybe like 3 other 3S's
on a single drive... I think it makes me cocky actually. =0) Just wanted to make
sure it wasn't only me that scoffs at the compact guys, I LOVE MY STEALTH!!
=0)
-b
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:10:42 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Stumped
What about the check engine light ??????
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "menalteed" <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday,
December 09, 2002 10:03 PM
Subject: Team3S: Stumped
> This is in reply to the information and suggestions
>
already answered helping to uncover the problem of not running. Some
>
things you should know, I have a brand new fuel filter and also fuel
>
line. I had the injectors fully cleaned and not to long ago put in a
> new
fuel pump. It must also be getting spark because it
> was running when the
MAS was unplugged prior to
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:23:19 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Stumped
I think you have 2 problems. Forget about what the car was doing and focus
on what its doing now. Its not running. Figure out the basic reason as to why.
Because this or that has been done does not mean anything. New fuel pumps fail,
injector cleaning can cause a piece of something to break lose and clog it.
Don't assume anything. Personally I do not see how a TPS could cause your car
not to start. Far as I understand *AND I MAY BE WRONG* its only used later on
when you rev etc.
Unplugging the MAS *I THINK* should make the ECU deliver some generic
volume of fuel enough to idle the car but will not increase it as RPM/airflow go
up. That has been what I have seen. I have had my VR4 running many times without
the MAS. It starts, runs without a problem. Little rough, but not anywhere close
to death. I even drove 2 blocks with a disconnected MAS once before I figured
out what was causing the car to run funny.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: menalteed
Sent: Monday, December
09, 2002 10:04 PM
Subject: Team3S: Stumped
This is in reply to the information and suggestions
already
answered helping to uncover the problem of not
running. Some things you
should know, I have a brand
new fuel filter and also fuel line. I had
the
injectors fully cleaned and not to long ago put in a
new fuel pump. It
must also be getting spark because it
was running when the MAS was unplugged
prior to
everything going down. So fuel or spark must not be
the
problem. I just would like to know what would make
it run with the MAS
disconnected but not connected. I'm
thinking of checking the TPS next or if
anyone knows
of a solenoid that could cause this problem please let
me
know. I could put jumpers across the solenoid if I
knew which one could cause
a problem like that. The
main harness that I've cleaned is the plug to the
TPS,
it is also the one I cleaned prior to it not starting
at all even
with the MAS disconnected. I put MAS in the
search engine and came up with
some one who had a
problem like mine and changed the TPS and it
solved
it.
I wonder if there is a way to bypass it somehow to
find out if it is the
problem, one more thing and this
is also the last thing I did before it quit
running
was plug in the MAS and try to start it and I could
for a brief
second then it would quit; but if I pumped
the peddle I could keep it running
barely....Peter 92
TT stealth.
By the way thanks for the help so
far....
------------------------------
What other mods do you have on your car?
You only mentioned an upgrade to 13Gs.
With what you have mentioned so far, the most likely thing that happened is
a IC hose probably blew off. A hose probably blew off as the mechanics
were joy....err I mean test driving your car. I know that you have to keep
your foot on the gas pedal to keep it running with the Y pipe blown off. I
never tried it with the Y pipe blown off and the MAS unplugged. Check all
of your IC hoses before you start taking things apart.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:16:14 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Stumped
Very good point! That would make sense since an air leak that big would
cause the MAS to read much lower intake numbers and hence supply less fuel. Then
when MAS is unplugged, it gives the default and it works.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: dakken
Sent: Monday, December 09,
2002 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stumped
What other mods do you have on your car?
You only mentioned an upgrade to 13Gs.
With what you have mentioned so far, the most likely thing that happened is
a IC hose probably blew off. A hose probably blew off as the mechanics
were joy....err I mean test driving your car. I know that you have to keep
your foot on the gas pedal to keep it running with the Y pipe blown off. I
never tried it with the Y pipe blown off and the MAS unplugged. Check all
of your IC hoses before you start taking things apart.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:07:32 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Transfer case recall update
Wait a sec... correct me if I'm wrong, but let's go over the routine once
again.
Transfer case goes dry due to leak... everything inside it locks up and
burns up. Now what effect does this have on the tranny, which drives the
transfer case?? See what I'm getting at? So by cause/effect, isn't this sort of
a transaxle recall too?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:25:12 -0600
From: "sarah" <
sweyer@grapevine.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Maybe someone should start a magazine for 3S's? I
would love to see other owners cars and read articles that actually pertain to
my cars! Sarah Weyer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:51:38 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Even more in Europe, the mags are covering for about 90% European cars
(Beemer,Audis, Opel, Renault. Fiat ...). There were only two articles about
our cars the last 10 years what is damn boring. But our community is just
too small to produce such a mag what finally would not end in break even or
it will be too expensive to sell it.
But maybe quarterly issues sponsored by all the 3S specialists and even
with articles from them covering new products and their stuff would help to
bring it break even regarding the investment in time and money. We could
delegate people from different regions (I may cover some regions in Europe)
and even find someone in Japan that would be willing to do this. Although
the expenses to gather the information and more outside the place where the
office would be would need an existing structure....and this is not easy
:-(
At 02:25 10.12.2002 -0600, sarah wrote:
> Maybe someone should start a magazine for
3S's? I would love to
>see other owners cars and read articles that
actually pertain to my
>cars!
> Sarah Weyer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:19:31 +0000
From: "Joshua Keena" <
teamkeena@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of a
quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The layout
includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test engineers, and
"club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a 3S publication.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:04:32 -0500
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <
Marc.J.Jacobs@alcatel.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
I have had the t-case lock up too. Fortunately, I could tell
something wasn't right. On the highway, it would whine when I backed off
the throttle. I pulled off the next exit, and the squeaking started.
Sounded awful. I pulled off the road and called for a flatbed.
After the call, it wouldn't roll at all. We had to use Dawn liquid soap to
get the back tires to slide all the way up the ramp, and back off. They
guy towing it couldn't believe it. I guess I was lucky. If I was on
a twisty road in slippery conditions it could have been bad. Is this sort
of recall "retro-active"?
I got a transfer case from a junkyard, and
replaced it myself. Do you think they will buy me a new one? Should
I get real legal advice?
- --
Marc J. Jacobs '94 Blue VR-4 -
2nd transfer case
xDSL Hardware Development
Alcatel,
USA (919) 850-6386
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:11:52 -0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of a
> quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The
layout
> includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test
engineers, and
> "club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a 3S
publication.
How many subscribers do we think we could drum up? I have software at my
disposal to estimate publication costs with a high degree of accuracy. Printing
costs and postage are both killers so a large enough subscription base would be
imperative.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:20:26 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I'd be interested, although I suspect that, at least from a technical
standpoint, 3KGT/Stealth owners get a lot more technical info from this list
than from a magazine. What about putting together a monthly or bi-monthly
electronic newsletter?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
[mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:12
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of a
> quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The
layout
> includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test
engineers, and
> "club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a 3S
publication.
How many subscribers do we think we could drum up? I have software at my
disposal to estimate publication costs with a high degree of accuracy. Printing
costs and postage are both killers so a large enough subscription base would be
imperative.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
I'd like to hear what Rich Merritt has to say about the amount of work that
would be involved in putting together a magazine, either on a quarterly print
basis or electronically.
Once upon a time, there was a sort of newsletter that was published by a
guy who did 3KGT mods in Houston, and now does only Vipers. Somewhere we
have a bunch of these stashed.
I write occasional technical articles for industry "throwaways" and there
are a lot of hours that go into a single article.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:53:25 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Make it electronic instead of paper. I might could host it.
AI Nut
Desert Fox wrote:
> on 12/10/02 5:19 AM, Joshua Keena at
teamkeena@hotmail.com scribbled:
>
>>Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of
a
>>quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The
layout
>>includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test
engineers, and
>>"club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a
3S publication.
>
> How many subscribers do we think we could drum
up? I have software at
> my disposal to estimate publication costs with a
high degree of
> accuracy. Printing costs and postage are both killers so
a large
> enough subscription base would be imperative.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:04:43 -0600
From: Matt Costanza <
mcostanza@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student) wrote:
> For some time now I've been scouring the news stands trying to find a
good magazine that has something 3S related... I've tried out the Super Street,
Sport Compact Car, and Import Tuner magazines... To my disappointment, none of
these seem to talk about the 3S at all, and very rarely do the vendors seem to
even have any products available for the 3S. I was wondering, does anyone
subscribe to a good magazine that is aimed at more than just the compact
scene? This leads me to my next question, is it just me, or is everyone
else on this list really
f@$%in' proud that they
own a 3S?! I really love it when I see 18232323423 Civics on the road, and maybe
like 3 other 3S's on a single drive... I think it makes me cocky actually. =0)
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't only me that scoffs at the compact guys, I
LOVE MY STEALTH!! =0)
> -b
You won't find much if anything at all on the 3000GT/GTO in the Tuner
mags. The car is not favorable to the tuners due to it's heavy gross
weight. When you look at the weight of a VR-4 Vs the available HP, it
produces a poor weight to HP rating.
Stick to team3S or 3SI.org for any info or questions you may have.
Regards,
- --
Matt Costanza
Austin, Tx USA
------------------------------
I second this. (Can I day I "third" this?) I think the 3S audience is so
much more computer literate than the average car fan audience that a paper copy
is not necessary. Guys buy 3S cars because they are hi-tech. Those guys already
know everything about email and the internet (as opposed to the ROWG Viper
owners). I would be willing to pay a little to receive that newsletter if
someone takes it seriously and keeps up the quality of its content.
And this money saved by not having to print stuff may motivate someone to
produce a better periodical. Maybe we all could then do some automotive
research, write and publish some worthy articles and earn some
commissions.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:31:56 -0800
From: "eK2mfg" <
eK2mfg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transfer case recall update
Well good for you Turbo guys! Looks like you get some $8 seals and a can of
oil? Now, my emails will read TC recalls for the next month while you all do
your jiggy dance. I got some questions about this recall for I may be a owner of
one of these money pit VR-4's in the future to come.
1) Do you need to be the
original owner? Have records of dealer service to be in this recall?
2)
Knowing of the recall is official, should you turn the other cheek to the
leaking TC on you new purchase knowing it could be fixed........if the balance
of the car was perfect, I might tend to look away to save a buck or two.
3)
If you were like owner #4 there is realistically no chance of getting a new one
is there....honestly....is there?
I agree with Mr. 316 on this one, looks like you get some oil and some
seals up to a new one? I still wouldn't let them touch my car though, even if it
cost me more to be so protective. Ever since my ABS problem that went from a
$400 master brake cylinder to a $9 fuse, that was it for me. I will say never on
this one. NEVER!
Do they have a big pile of these on a pallet somewhere? Also, if I was
turned away from one dealer, I would try one of the others a little further out.
We have like 5 in the NW area. To me it would seem to give you better chances of
getting what you want rather than settle for Satin's first opinion.
Bobk.
NA owner...thinking about the future!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:38:05 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
The recall is a safety recall, so it applies to the current owner, no
matter how far down on the ownership chain you are. If the dealer's
records do not indicate that the recall was completed, you'll get the
card. As for #2, that's a judgment call. Just make sure the reason
it's leaking is because of the recall, and not because of abuse. I have a
91 Stealth that was the subject of a prior leaky-transfer case recall. I was the
second owner. They replaced the transfer case without question in
1995. The way you can tell if you have a replaced transfer case is it has
a small reddish colored dot painted on the bottom of it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: eK2mfg
[mailto:eK2mfg@attbi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:32
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall update
Well good for you Turbo guys! Looks like you get some $8 seals and a can of
oil? etc. etc.
------------------------------
Well good for you Turbo guys! Looks like you get some $8 seals and a can of
oil? Now, my emails will read TC recalls for the next month while you all do
your jiggy dance. I got some questions about this recall for I may be a owner of
one of these money pit VR-4's in the future to come.
1) Do you need to be the
original owner? Have records of dealer service to be in this recall?
>>>>No. Current owner.
2) Knowing of the recall is official, should you turn the other cheek to
the leaking TC on you new purchase knowing it could be fixed........if the
balance of the car was perfect, I might tend to look away to save a buck or
two.
>>>>Everybody has a different level of economic support and
mechanical
>>>>ability, as well as free time.
3) If you were like owner #4 there is realistically no chance of getting a
new one is there....honestly....is there?
>>>>See answer to #1.
I agree with Mr. 316 on this one, looks like you get some oil and some
seals up to a new one? I still wouldn't let them touch my car though, even if it
cost me more to be so protective. Ever since my ABS problem that went from a
$400 master brake cylinder to a $9 fuse, that was it for me. I will say never on
this one. NEVER!
>>>>Behind every silver lining there's always a cloud. This
list spends
>>>>so much bandwidth griping about what Mitsu
DIDN'T do, how about some
>>>>appreciation that they are doing
SOMETHING for a change. Let's give
>>>>it a while and see what
sort of resolution we get.
Do they have a big pile of these on a pallet somewhere? Also, if I was
turned away from one dealer, I would try one of the others a little further out.
We have like 5 in the NW area. To me it would seem to give you better chances of
getting what you want rather than settle for Satin's first opinion.
>>>>Mitsu had to determine the supply and estimate the required
>>>>replacements in order to submit a corrective plan to
NHTSA. Maybe
>>>>the guys at Kormex could tell you where
they think new or rebuilt
>>>>transfer cases are gonna be coming
from, if any.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:42:04 -0600
From: Michael Provence <
MProvence@gencofcu.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and third
party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly specials.
This could also be tied into a new product testing/review section. Perhaps
a nominal fee to have your car displayed to all? All options and costs
would have to be examined but you should be able to drop costs to an acceptable
level. The question remains how many would be willing to devote that much
of their free time.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:49:11 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Also, it could be bi-monthly, or even quarterly.
AI Nut
Michael Provence wrote:
> If a decision was made to create a
magazine, part of the cost could be
> offset by advertising. I
would think a number of our dealer and third
> party suppliers would pay
a reasonable fee to promote monthly
> specials. This could also be
tied into a new product testing/review
> section. Perhaps a nominal
fee to have your car displayed to all?
> All options and costs
would have to be examined but you should be able
> to drop costs to an
acceptable level. The question remains how many
> would be willing
to devote that much of their free time.
------------------------------
When I write articles for some of these industry rags, I usually don't get
any reimbursement. I recently got a $250 honorarium for an article.
You have to consider who would be motivated to put in time and effort producing
content for little or no compensation.
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
[mailto:MProvence@gencofcu.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:42
AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:01:29 -0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Folks...
Most magazines are "for profit" operations. The actually printing and
distribution costs are paid for by advertising, the subscription price is paid
for by you and I, the end customer. They make tons of money. If that was not the
intent, I think it could be done with "minimal" costs, passed on to the reader.
The real challenge is the work to organize it, lay it out periodically, publish
and distribute it.
There were a handful of 3KGT articles in Super Street years ago which is
why I originally subscribed and bought the back issues. One of our Team3S
members (I forgot his name) had his black VR4 pictured at the Air Force base,
racing a fancy war toy plane of some sort (he was in the military). There were
also Car of the Year articles back in 1991 and 1992 in Car and Driver, Road and
Track, and Motor Trend when the 3KGT and Stealth first came out.
I have subscribed to all the current car mags at one point or another,
there's nothing about 3KGTs or Stealths these days and it's unlikely that there
will be (since there's so few and now out of production). Turbo and Super Street
would still be the likely candidates, it's possible that they would publish an
article if someone contacted them and provided the pictures (professionally
shot). The other mags, like Sport Compact Car, Import Tuner, etc. will likely
never turn their heads our way. I would love to have a hard copy magazine with
pictures of fellow owner's vehicles but would not follow an e-based publication,
I spend too much time on the computer already. I'm not interested in the
advertising so it would mean paying some $$$ for publication costs. I have a
friend who owns a 1969 Nova with a highly modified 502 CID Crate engine, he's
been featured in the Nova magazine which has no advertising.
Food for thought, someone has to have the "burning" desire to create and
manage something like this, which would not be a trivial task.
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
[mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 6:12
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of
a
> quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The
layout
> includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test
engineers, and
> "club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a 3S
publication.
How many subscribers do we think we could drum up? I have software at my
disposal to estimate publication costs with a high degree of accuracy. Printing
costs and postage are both killers so a large enough subscription base would be
imperative.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:42:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Custom Painting
Hopefully we have some members that can give me some
guidance
here.
I am preparing to buy a VR4 Spyder.
The color choices are VERY
limited.
Red
Black
White
Yellow (maybe, rare, repaints?)
Anyway, I plan on repainting as none of these options
(except maybe the
yellow) appeals to me.
Would a repaint be best over a black or a white base
color?
I have also seen some of those awesome paintjobs that
change color,
can't remember what they are called...
but reading some of the information
about them, it
seems they are painted over a base coat... and that
seems
to frequently be black???
Go figure, well, I am confused about all this and have
no experience or
knowledge with auto paint.
If anyone has some insight or some good links to
educate me and show me
some options, I would really
appreciate the input.
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:55:08 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Stumped
This happened to us with a customer car. Only ran without the MAS plugged
in.. Turned out to be the MFI relay underneath the passenger side cover in the
center console... when you pull the panel away it's the really big shiny relay
stuck to the console next to the radio. I'd give that a check.. as well as
everything else in the manual if that don't fix it.
Omar
92 r/t
- -----Original Message-----
From: menalteed
Sent: Monday, December
09, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: Team3S: Stumped
I'm certainly not an expert on my car but have done a
bit of mechanic
prowess. I upgraded the air filter then
changed my turbo from 9b to 13g and
also had the head rebuilt.
I have had the car running for about a Month and
it seemed to
run fine except for this whooshing noise that I blame on
the
BOV. Now the problems start, I went to get my license renewed
but
needed to get a smog test. I failed. My Hydrocarbon emissions
where to
high. I then took it into the shop that did the rebuild
of the heads to
check it out. I didn't expect that it would be a
problem but it was. They
called me and said during a test ride
the car it stopped running, it was
running fine when I took it
in. I asked what was wrong and they said it was
the MAS, they
could get it running, not good but running by disconnecting
the
MAS. I bit the bullet and asked them to fix it. A new MAS didn't
fix
it. Now they said it must be the computer ECU. They replaced
the ECU,
no luck still only ran with the MAS disconnected. At this
time I said to put
my MAS and computer back in an I would pick up
the car running bad or not
because they couldn't seem to fix it. I
brought it home running poorly with
the MAS disconnected. I then
check out a few thing like the fuses an
inspected harnesses and
all visual things I could think of. It would still
only run with
the MAS disconnected. Today I went back out to keep working
on
it with the book in hand but all the tests seem to be at idle
and now
for some reason after removing several harnesses and
cleaning them with
contact cleaner it won't run at all. I'm
stumped as where to check next. The
fuel system from the tank
to the engine must be fine so it has to be
something else but
I have no idea where to look or what simple checks I could
make
to get at the problem. Any help or ideas would be appreciated
peter 92 Stealth TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:13:18 -0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Stumped
Thank you OMar, I was just checking a tech sheet and
the one line
drawing does show that the MAS goes right
through the MFI relay. I was having
trouble finding it
or even knowing what MFI stands for. I wonder if
I
could do a simple jumper wire to bypass that relay for
a test....Peter
92 Stealth TT, with a factory Moon
roof
and roof holder in trunk...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:12:43 +0000
From: "Joshua Keena" <
teamkeena@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Custom Painting
Roger,
The best body to repaint is the one with no corrosion or
damage. If you are
completely changing the color, the existing color
does not matter. Focus on
the mechanical aspects of the chassis and
condition of the body when buying a
used sled.
The surface will be roughened, primed, painted, and covered with clear
coat.
This is simplified a bit, but any reputable shop takes these
basic steps. Two admin notes, complete color change adds a considerable amount
of labor because door jams, trunk/hood undersides all must be painted to
match. Additionally, you must re-title the car with the new color.
Josh
>Subject: Team3S: Custom Painting
>Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:42:50
-0800 (PST)
>
>Hopefully we have some members that can give me
some
>guidance here.
>I am preparing to buy a VR4 Spyder.
>The
color choices are VERY
limited.
>Red
>Black
>White
>Yellow (maybe, rare,
repaints?)
>
>Anyway, I plan on repainting as none of these
options
>(except maybe the yellow) appeals to me.
>
>Would a
repaint be best over a black or a white base
>color?
>
>I have
also seen some of those awesome paintjobs that
>change color, can't
remember what they are called...
>but reading some of the information
about them, it
>seems they are painted over a base coat... and
that
>seems to frequently be black???
>
>Go figure, well, I am
confused about all this and have
>no experience or knowledge with auto
paint.
>
>If anyone has some insight or some good links
to
>educate me and show me some options, I would really
>appreciate
the input.
>
>Roger L
>F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:29:19 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Custom Painting
Josh is right. My dad has been doing salvage stuff for like 10 years and we
do our own paint. I would suggest you find the color you like and stick with it.
There is only so much you can paint without having to pull the block and many
other things... The *RIGHT* way to do it is to pull EVERY piece of trim, all the
rubber and plastic stuff and take it off the car. Then pull all the parts like
side skirts, bumpers etc and paint them all separately. Then put them back on
the car and blend them for a perfect match. There is TONS of non-reuse stuff
when you do that (rubber seals, pins etc), plus labor etc etc. Bottom line, a
reputable shop will charge around $5000 for a paint job like that. The $500
Maaco paint jobs are complete crap. They don't even scrape your old paint off.
Just wash the car, tape some stuff off (results in massive over spray) and
shoot. Masking and shooting are the most crucial parts of the whole process,
which is why good painters can earn $100K/yr.
The paint you talked about is not cheap ether. The name is on the tip of my
tongue, my dad just did a Nova in that color... Its a lot more, whatever it
was.
Bottom line, not trying to scare you, but you need to figure out what you
want and get quotes for it first because they are going to be much higher than
you expect.
FYI, I don't know what my dad is doing far as schedule etc, but he is much
cheaper than a shop :)
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:37:31 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Custom Painting
Aren't you talking about chameleon paint?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Custom Painting
Josh is right. My dad has been doing salvage stuff for like 10 years and we
do our own paint. I would suggest you find the color you like and stick with it.
There is only so much you can paint without having to pull the block and many
other things... The *RIGHT* way to do it is to pull EVERY piece of trim, all the
rubber and plastic stuff and take it off the car. Then pull all the parts like
side skirts, bumpers etc and paint them all separately. Then put them back on
the car and blend them for a perfect match. There is TONS of non-reuse stuff
when you do that (rubber seals, pins etc), plus labor etc etc. Bottom line, a
reputable shop will charge around $5000 for a paint job like that. The $500
Maaco paint jobs are complete crap. They don't even scrape your old paint off.
Just wash the car, tape some stuff off (results in massive over spray) and
shoot. Masking and shooting are the most crucial parts of the whole process,
which is why good painters can earn $100K/yr.
The paint you talked about is not cheap ether. The name is on the tip of my
tongue, my dad just did a Nova in that color... Its a lot more, whatever it
was.
Bottom line, not trying to scare you, but you need to figure out what you
want and get quotes for it first because they are going to be much higher than
you expect.
FYI, I don't know what my dad is doing far as schedule etc, but he is much
cheaper than a shop :)
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:37:49 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I have always hoped SOMEONE would produce a "Twin Turbo" magazine, included
features would be stealth's, 3kgt's, 300ZX's, Supra's, Skyline's, RX7's, Lotus,
Porsche (are they single or twin turbo?), Audi, and of course all the tuner cars
like the TT vette, TT viper and such. I would think that would be a large enough
subscriber base to make it worth while! Since "Turbo Magazine" is 90% single
turbo stuff, and putting turbos on non turbo cars. I have also thought of
getting going a 3S Quarterly subscription, but I don't know anyone that has the
writing skills for doing articles and subscription would be a pain, it would
take me a week to mail them all out :) I always wondered how much it would
cost to get that going . . . (bulk mailing stamp? Printing costs, I have a photo
printer but it's too slow for that kind of volume, and of course time)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Even more in Europe, the mags are covering for about 90% European cars
(Beemer,Audis, Opel, Renault. Fiat ...). There were only two articles about
our cars the last 10 years what is damn boring. But our community is just
too small to produce such a mag what finally would not end in break even or
it will be too expensive to sell it.
But maybe quarterly issues sponsored by all the 3S specialists and even
with articles from them covering new products and their stuff would help to
bring it break even regarding the investment in time and money. We
could
delegate people from different regions (I may cover some regions
in
Europe)
and even find someone in Japan that would be willing to do
this. Although
the expenses to gather the information and more outside the
place where the
office would be would need an existing structure....and this
is not easy :-(
At 02:25 10.12.2002 -0600, sarah wrote:
> Maybe someone should start a magazine for
3S's? I would love to
>see other owners cars and read articles that
actually pertain to my
>cars!
> Sarah Weyer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:39:49 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
Well . . . Considering we would have . . . Team3S, 3Si, Starnet, 3Sracers,
Club3S, all the local chapters all over the USA, and all the tuner shops would
probably keep a few to sell to customers, you should be able to get a good base
going.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox
Sent: Tuesday, December
10, 2002 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
> Viper Magazine, formerly Viper Quarterly, is an excellent example of
a
> quarterly publication for a relatively small population. The
layout
> includes a technical Q/A forum with production and test
engineers, and
> "club" updates. It could serve as a basis for a 3S
publication.
How many subscribers do we think we could drum up? I have software at my
disposal to estimate publication costs with a high degree of accuracy. Printing
costs and postage are both killers so a large enough subscription base would be
imperative.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:46:47 -0500
From: "anscray" <
anscray@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Custom Painting
I was also thinking Chameleon paint.. But,
he may also be thinking of a pearlized color like midnight blue that can appear
black in some lights, or like the Zurich white the 3s's come in that shines a
few different tones in sunlight..
Chameleon paint seems a little obnoxious for a 3s
in my opinion, but then again its only my opinion..
Scott
94VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:53:35 -0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Custom Painting
Roger...
I'll go one step further...if you love your car, and you want it to be done
"properly", changing the color means removing the body from the chassis,
removing the interior (completely), removing EVERY piece of trim, and repainting
the ENTIRE car. While I have seen some fairly impressive paint jobs (from the
outside), there's almost nothing worse than what Joshua describes...opening the
hood and seeing the engine compartment a different color than the exterior,
opening the doors and seeing the door jambs a different color than the exterior,
opening the trunk and seeing a different color than the exterior. Feathering
around headlights, window gaskets, etc., etc. is VERY difficult to do and leaves
you with something that you'll likely be unhappy with.
Concours d'elegance winning cars are "always" repainted after completely
stripping them down to bare metal...everywhere. Unless, of course, they've been
maintained in mint condition and are being rated on being 100% original in which
case you'd fail for having a non factory color. If you're going to spend the
money on a VR4 Spyder, resign yourself to the existing color options, or dig
deep for another $15K to $20K and do it right.
BTW...I think you described what's being called "Euro Pearl", I've seen a
couple show cars that go from green to blue to purple, all depending on the
angle and lighting. Add some more $$$ for this, it's several more coats. Again,
I think it would be a shame to do this and not go all the way (i.e., just the
exterior). Here's a link to a 1940 Chevy coupe that's purple/blue:
Here's a link to a pearl blue Mitsubishi 3000GT (doesn't appear to be
a
VR4):
And here's the link to the site that contains hundreds of custom cars where
I found these two:
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Keena
[mailto:teamkeena@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:13
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Custom Painting
Roger,
The best body to repaint is the one with no corrosion or damage. If
you are completely changing the color, the existing color does not matter. Focus
on the mechanical aspects of the chassis and condition of the body when buying a
used sled. The surface will be roughened, primed, painted, and covered with
clear coat. This is simplified a bit, but any reputable shop takes these basic
steps. Two admin notes, complete color change adds a considerable amount of
labor because door jams, trunk/hood undersides all must be painted to match.
Additionally, you must re-title the car with the new color. Josh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:55:09 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
I think it is a very bad idea to make people pay to have their cars
featured. If their car is worth being featured they've already paid enough! Not
to mention it would merely become a bidding war for bragging rights to who's car
is on the cover type of thing!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Provence
Sent: Tuesday,
December 10, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
If a decision was made to create a magazine, part of the cost could be
offset by advertising. I would think a number of our dealer and third
party suppliers would pay a reasonable fee to promote monthly specials. This
could also be tied into a new product testing/review section. Perhaps a nominal
fee to have your car displayed to all? All options and costs would have to
be examined but you should be able to drop costs to an acceptable level.
The question remains how many would be willing to devote that much of their free
time.
Mike
------------------------------
Ap594 R4 race pads.
$135 to your door, today only, qty: 1 set.
Normal price $140+shipping, retail $180+ shipping.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:57:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Custom Painting
Tyson and Team 3S,
I am not going to be too surprised by the cost,
I
hope.
I was thinking that a high quality paint job would
likely run
$3-$6k.... not planning on doing it for
awhile, just asking if my base color
will matter for
my choices.
I wont pull my engine to paint the bay
however...
I think I am going with the Pearl White Spyder
I
found.
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:02:06 -0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Custom Painting - Mystic by BASF
Folks...
The "Chameleon Paint" suggestion caused me to do another search, I came up
with the actual manufacturer and description of the process:
Looking forward...Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Custom Painting
Rats, I know you are right.
There is no way I am willing to spend that kind of
money on a
repaint....
Rats, our color options are so limited in the
Spyder....
Well, at least as consolation, the one I am looking at
is PERFECT, not a
ding/dent/scratch....
White it is... unless I win the lottery.
Has anyone seen any yellow STOCK VR4 Spyders? If they
are floating
around I may hold out for one... so far
it is nothing more then a rumor that
all the yellows
are repaints....
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:20:50 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner mentality
It's nice to have something to read at work, pictures to look at, show your
friends. I "get" (cant use the Subxxxxxx word or it kicks your post
:) to
most of the automotive magazines, motor trend, car and driver, auto week, sport
compact car, turbo, super street, road and track, to name a few :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Starkey, Jr., Joseph
Sent:
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Magazines/ 3S owner
mentality
I'd be interested, although I suspect that, at least from a technical
standpoint, 3KGT/Stealth owners get a lot more technical info from this list
than from a magazine. What about putting together a monthly or bi-monthly
electronic newsletter?
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#21
**************************************