Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, December 5 2002 Volume
02 : Number 017
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:47:00 -0500
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel sizing?
All this talk about wheels is making me curious, LET'S SEE SOME PICS
BABY!
Everyone loves pics of new wheels!
Post the
URL.
Vinny
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:40:57 -0500
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
>Stock 18" rims are 18x8.5 with 46mm offset
>
>Do the math
for an 18x9
>Figure you get 0.25" wider each direction from
center.
>
>Theoretically, if you stay with 46mm offset, the inside
edge of your
>rim will be 0.25" closer to the strut - critical especially
if you
> are using or thinking of using JIC or TEIN since the spring
is
> "wrapped" on the strut and has to fit behind the tire instead
of
> over it as with stock.
You're right in your calculations. But the problem with the struts
(JIC-Tein) is not the springs. It is the strut tube. Springs are
in
approximately the same position as the stock springs. But Mitsu
placed
the strut tubes too close to the wheel position. Max with my
set-up (OZ
F1's ..... 18x9" ---- stock offset with Teins) is 255s, and then
it
depends on the manufacturer. Not all 255s are created equal
.........
as the old saying goes!!
The other issue no one talks about is bearings. Most are designed
with
the design wheel offset. Moving too far out will cause excessive
wear.
Plus you take the chance ...... by putting the wheel too far out of
jeopardizing your wheel arches (and cutting up your tires) if you've
lowered the car at all.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 20:50:47 -0500
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
Jeff Lucius wrote:
>Let's take some of the mystery out of wheel offset. Imagine two
>parallel flat
>planes. One goes vertically through the center of
the wheel and the other goes
>vertically where the wheel mounts to the
"hub" (actually the "hat" of the disk
>rotor). The distance between those
two planes is the offset. If the wheel
>mounting surface is outboard of
the wheel centerline (likes ours are) the
>offset is positive. If the
wheel has that dished-out appearance (like lots of
>hot rods have), the
mounting surface is inboard of the wheel centerline and
>the offset is
negative.
Generally, yes, but you can't use that as a rule (dished appearance).
>The offset of *all* 3S stock wheels is 46 mm. That includes all models
>and all
>years, even the spare. If you want to maintain the stock
clearance between
>wheel/tire and car body/suspension parts, then you
need to decrease the offset
>an amount equal to one-half the change in
wheel width. This moves the wheel
>centerline farther outboard. For
example, if going to a 9" wheel from a 8.5"
>wheel, the offset would
decrease 0.25" or 6.35 mm (or from 46 mm to 39-40 mm).
>If going to a
10"-wide wheel, offset would decrease by 0.5" or 12.7 mm (from
>46 mm to
33-34 mm). If your setup can tolerate less-than-stock clearance then
>the
wheel offset doesn't need to change as much. Obviously, front and rear
>track increase when offset decreases and wheel width increases.
I believe the real issue (using the your great description as a basis)
with the 3S cars is ......... how wide can I go (rim wise) and how does
this relate to the offset? Offset determines how close to the
suspension (in our case strut tube) the inner edge of the rim comes.
You cannot keep adding width on each side of the mounting surface of
the wheel without (sooner or later) the inner edge of the rim bumping
up against the strut tube. Doing this (adding rim width equally to
both
sides of the mounting surface) increases the (+) offset, as Jeff says,
by
the amount added to the inner side of the rim. Therefore, the key
is to
add width in such a way that it does not increase the (positive)
offset
so much as to cause the inner edge of the rim to begin to strike the
strut tubes. So, the wider the rim (10, 11, 12") the more that
has to
be added to the outside of the mounting surface of the wheel.
Furthermore, the wider the tire the more you contribute to the
potential of rubbing the tube by the tire. This is, of course,
dependent on the width (and offset) of the wheel. If you go to the
manufacturer's web sites, they have the section width (most important
measurement for clearance) of all of their sizes. Example ...........
Goodyear Eagle F1s are relatively narrow for the same size as BFG gForce
KDs. I could fit a 275-40X17 w/out rubbing on my 93 (stock rims)
.......... couldn't fit 265 Yokohamas. Just means, if you're
serious,
do your homework (I didn't)!!
>Maybe another member (one of our racers?) can explain how moving the
>wheels outboard affects handling, steering, and suspension issues.
Not racer ......... novice, nobody. It can effect bearings on a
'driven daily' vehicle. Bearing s are 'cut' based on the offset of the
wheels. Moving them out a fair amount could reduce the life of the
wheel bearings.
Question we all really need to know is ........... what is the offset
limit of our cars (the maximum positive offset before contacting the
tubes. I' m fine with maintaining stock offset (adding all additional
width to the outside).
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:24:14 -0800
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Wheel sizing?
> centerline farther outboard. For example, if going to a 9" wheel from
> a 8.5" wheel, the offset would decrease 0.25" or 6.35 mm (or from
46
> mm to 39-40 mm). If going to a 10"-wide wheel, offset would
decrease
> by 0.5" or 12.7 mm (from 46 mm to 33-34 mm). If your setup
can
> tolerate less-than-stock clearance then the wheel offset
doesn't
> need to change as much. Obviously, front and rear track
increase
> when offset decreases and wheel width increases.
Small correction. It should be either "If going to a 9.5"-wide wheel,
offset would decrease by 0.5" or 12.7 mm (from 46 mm to 33-34 mm)" or " If
going to a 10"-wide wheel, offset would decrease by 0.75" or 19.1 mm (from
46 mm to 27 mm).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:05:43 -0500
From: "bob atkins" <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel sizing?
Dennis,
You've got me confused here - You must be looking at a different
TEIN or JIC than the HA or the FLT-A2 respectively.
MAJOR DIFFERENCE with stock front strut / spring.
STOCK STRUT - Big hat spring perch extends out over the tire and entire
spring lives ABOVE the tire - spring is about 8" diameter
JIC/TEIN STRUT - Coilover design. small spring perch threaded on
strut and spring descends down below the inside top edge of rim (all the
way down behind the tire - spring is about 4" diameter.
BOTTOM LINE - TEIN and JIC occupy greater space inboard of the Rim/Tire
than Stock Struts do -
Make no mistake about this in your suspension and rim upgrade
planning.
FURTHER - I have:
1) TEIN-HA
2) Enkei RPM-2 18x9 38mm offset
3)
Kumho ecstaV700 265x35x18
and I have
2a) Stock 18x8.5 46mm offset - 6 spoke Chromies
3a)
Potenza RE730, 245x40x18
I was REALLY NERVOUS about the 265's - Was pleasantly surprised. Fact
is with the track setup (Enkei/Kumho) I have, there is significantly
greater strut AND caliper clearance between the tire and rim respectively
than with the stock setup. One thing to note here though is that the
race tire ecstaV700 does not have the protruding rim protector bead that
most street tires in performance profiles have
g8rbob
'99VR-4
- ----------
> You're right in your calculations. But the problem with the
struts
> (JIC-Tein) is not the springs. It is the strut tube.
Springs are in
> approximately the same position as the stock
springs. But Mitsu
> placed the strut tubes too close to the wheel
position. Max with my
> set-up (OZ F1's ..... 18x9" ---- stock
offset with Teins) is 255s, and
> then it depends on the
manufacturer. Not all 255s are created equal
> ......... as the old
saying goes!!
>
> The other issue no one talks about is
bearings. Most are designed
> with the design wheel offset.
Moving too far out will cause excessive
> wear. Plus you take the
chance ...... by putting the wheel too far
> out of jeopardizing your
wheel arches (and cutting up your tires) if
> you've lowered the car at
all.
>
> Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:11:19 -0500
From: "bob atkins" <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Wheel sizing?
think we had it right. 0.5 wider is 0.25 wider to each the inboard
and
outboard edges
OB Edge|<---0.25"-----(center)-----0.25"--->|IB Edge
You add a half by adding a quarter in both directions since offset is
measured from "center"
g8rbob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:52:16 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Wheel sizing?
Hmmmm --- I would assume that Tein and JIC were smart enough to allow for
tire clearance when designing their struts. With over 1½ º of negative
camber 265 tires will rub on the stock struts --- There is very
little clearance between the stock tire and strut, there is no room for a
spring and perch so the spring must stop before the tire. With my GC setup
I can drop the spring perch to where it touches the tire but that results
in a 2½ " drop.
Jim Berry
==================================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "bob atkins" <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
December 04, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
> Dennis,
> You've got me confused here - You must be looking at a
different TEIN
> or JIC than the HA or the FLT-A2
respectively.
>
> MAJOR DIFFERENCE with stock front strut /
spring.
>
> STOCK STRUT - Big hat spring perch extends out over the
tire and
> entire spring lives ABOVE the tire - spring is about 8"
diameter
>
> JIC/TEIN STRUT - Coilover design. small spring
perch threaded on
> strut and spring descends down below the inside top
edge of rim (all
> the way down behind the tire - spring is about 4"
diameter.
>
> BOTTOM LINE - TEIN and JIC occupy greater space
inboard of the
> Rim/Tire than Stock Struts do -
>
> Make no
mistake about this in your suspension and rim upgrade
>
planning.
>
> FURTHER - I have:
> 1) TEIN-HA
> 2) Enkei
RPM-2 18x9 38mm offset
> 3) Kumho ecstaV700 265x35x18
>
> and
I have
> 2a) Stock 18x8.5 46mm offset - 6 spoke Chromies
> 3a)
Potenza RE730, 245x40x18
>
> I was REALLY NERVOUS about the 265's -
Was pleasantly surprised. Fact
> is with the track setup
(Enkei/Kumho) I have, there is significantly
> greater strut AND caliper
clearance between the tire and rim
> respectively than with the stock
setup. One thing to note here though
> is that the race tire
ecstaV700 does not have the protruding rim
> protector bead that most
street tires in performance profiles have
>
> g8rbob
>
'99VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 05:14:29 +0000
From: "gareth hannah" <
alcoholika_02@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
Hi ALL!!
I have had a problem for a little bit and see if yall can help me. whenever
I am at WOT running at 13-15 psi. I "sometimes" feel a hesitation.
And on my air/fuel gauge you can tell that it supposed to be all the way in
the green but instead it sputters into the yellow stoich area for a few
split seconds. So I'm leaning out somehow I feel!!
does this necessarily mean I'm "KNOCKING"! My friend said I might be, and a
good thing to do is get an MSD BTM! My friend has a Supercharged Dakota R/T
and he has one, and doesn't seem to get any problems. But I haven't heard or
seen anyone with our cars use a BTM. Now would using this by retarding my
timing help this so-called "knocking " problem! if not, do you think that it
might be my coils and/or my spark plugs? I'm scared that I am detonating.
But
the weird thing is it doesn't happen all the time. Or could it be my
injectors and/or fuel pump? Let me know, and if anyone has ever felt this
too!!!
Thanks
Gareth 92 RT/TT
Profec-b, Full custom exhaust, K/N intake,
GReddy-s BOV, STAGE 3 3SX-
clutch, fidanza flywheel, custom Y-pipe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:44:06 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
I had a similar problem up until a few weeks ago, and frankly I believe
that it was spark blow-out not knocking. Solution for me 3 Accell
supercoils to replace my 10+ year old stock coils.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 01:08:37 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
Could Tein and JIC cause some additional problems with rim selection? If
they are fatter (the spring goes below the upper edge of the rim), would
some wide rims with high offset rub against the spring if I dial in a
largest negative camber possible? Would the same rims rub more or less on
the stock suspension?
Tein/JIC guys, what front camber and what rims are you running?
Philip
At 19:40 12/4/2002, Dennis Ninneman wrote:
>You're right in your
calculations. But the problem with the struts
>(JIC-Tein) is not the
springs. It is the strut tube. Springs are in
>approximately
the same position as the stock springs. But Mitsu placed
>the strut
tubes too close to the wheel position. Max with my set-up (OZ
>F1's
..... 18x9" ---- stock offset with Teins) is 255s, and then it
>depends
on the manufacturer. Not all 255s are created equal ......... as
>the old saying goes!!
At 23:05 12/4/2002, bob atkins wrote:
>JIC/TEIN STRUT - Coilover
design. small spring perch threaded on strut
>and spring descends
down below the inside top edge of rim (all the way
>down behind the tire
- spring is about 4" diameter.
>
>BOTTOM LINE - TEIN and JIC occupy
greater space inboard of the Rim/Tire
>than Stock Struts do
-
>
>Make no mistake about this in your suspension and rim upgrade
planning.
>
>FURTHER - I have:
>1) TEIN-HA
>2) Enkei
RPM-2 18x9 38mm offset
>3) Kumho ecstaV700 265x35x18
>
>and I
have
>2a) Stock 18x8.5 46mm offset - 6 spoke Chromies
>3a)
Potenza RE730, 245x40x18
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:17:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Suspensions and Ride Quality
Speaking of suspension systems...
I am going to purchase another VR4, one with a stock
suspension
system.
I would like to lower the car somewhat to eradicate
that hideous wheel
gap, but this time...
I don't care about improving the handling
and
performance.
On this one it will simply be lowered for looks....
I want to retain the
nice smooth ride of the stock
suspension on this car.
Suggestions?
Has anyone else done this?
Roger L
F15DOC
"Stay on target"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:33:12 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
I'll bet a $1 right now that your problem is fuel supply. I had the same
thing happen. I had spark blowout too but when that happens it feels like
the car wont go any faster whereas with shortage of fuel it still
accelerates but sluggishly. Felling is about the same but spark blowout is
more severe. Also, I think with spark blowout you should not have your AF
gauge getting leaner, quite the opposite since raw gasoline will be in the
exhaust it should show full rich.
Key word is *THINK*
Anyhow, do the following.
Get some STP injector cleaner and run that through the car.
More likely however it is your fuel pump relay/resistor. That's what it was
in my car. Our relay has a high and low setting. On my car for some reason
the high setting did not supply as much voltage as it should have (there
is a relay and resistor that work together to control voltage). Ether way
I simply ran a higher gauge wire to my fuel pump and used the old circuit as an
actuator for my new relay. This is a very common mod, many people do it
for this exact reason.
There is another way, a better way to do the mod but you will have to ask
Erik Gross or look in the archives. He posted it a few months ago.
Other possible but unlikely causes are a failing fuel pump, a clogged fuel
return line, dirty fuel filter and a malfunctioning Fuel Pressure
Regulator.
In the meantime, you might want to turn your boost down to 11-12PSI till
you get it figured out. Running lean raises the temperature of combustion
and can melt your pistons (same effect as over boosting).
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Keren
Sent: Wednesday,
December 04, 2002 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: stuttering boost
problem.....?
I had a similar problem up until a few weeks ago, and frankly I believe
that it was spark blow-out not knocking. Solution for me 3 Accell
supercoils to replace my 10+ year old stock coils.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 01:31:33 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
Cut the springs and drive slowly on smooth roads. Not recommended, but that
is the only way to lower the car and maintain the same nice smooth ride. It
would also cost you nothing.
Philip
At 01:17 12/5/2002, you wrote:
>Speaking of suspension systems...
>I am going to purchase another
VR4, one with a stock suspension system.
>I would like to lower the car
somewhat to eradicate
>that hideous wheel gap, but this time...
>I
don't care about improving the handling and
>performance.
>On this
one it will simply be lowered for looks....
>I want to retain the nice
smooth ride of the stock
>suspension on this
car.
>Suggestions?
>Has anyone else done this?
>Roger
L
>F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:38:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Suspensions and Ride Quality
Does that actually make your cornering and at speed
performance
worse?
Roger L
F15DOC
- --- "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu> wrote:
> Cut the
springs and drive slowly on smooth roads.
> Not recommended, but that
> is the only way to lower the car and maintain the
> same nice
smooth ride. It
> would also cost you nothing.
>
>
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:43:59 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
Great point, I missed the A/F reading .
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
December 04, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: stuttering boost
problem.....?
> I'll bet a $1 right now that your problem is fuel supply. I had the
same
> thing happen. I had spark blowout too but when that happens it
feels like
> the car wont go any faster whereas with shortage of fuel it
still
> accelerates but sluggishly. Felling is about the same but spark
blowout is
> more severe. Also, I think with spark blowout you should not
have your AF
> gauge getting leaner, quite the opposite since raw gasoline
will be in the
> exhaust it should show full rich.
>
> Key
word is *THINK*
>
> Anyhow, do the following.
>
> Get
some STP injector cleaner and run that through the car.
>
> More
likely however it is your fuel pump relay/resistor. That's what
> it was
in my car. Our relay has a high and low setting. On my car
> for some
reason the high setting did not supply as much voltage as
> it should have
(there is a relay and resistor that work together
> to control voltage).
Ether way I simply ran a higher gauge wire
> to my fuel pump and used the
old circuit as an actuator for my
> new relay. This is a very common mod,
many people do it for this
> exact reason.
>
> There is
another way, a better way to do the mod but you will have to ask
> Erik
Gross or look in the archives. He posted it a few months ago.
>
>
Other possible but unlikely causes are a failing fuel pump, a clogged
fuel
> return line, dirty fuel filter and a malfunctioning Fuel
Pressure
> Regulator.
>
> In the meantime, you might want to
turn your boost down to 11-12PSI till
> you get it figured out. Running
lean raises the temperature of combustion
> and can melt your pistons
(same effect as over boosting).
>
> Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:59:08 -0800
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Wheel sizing?
I was referring to the 2nd example. Going from 8.5" to 10" is
1.5" wider
resulting in .75" increase on each side. The 1st example is
correct.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "bob atkins" <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
December 04, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Wheel sizing?
> think we had it right. 0.5 wider is 0.25 wider to each the
inboard and
> outboard edges
>
> OB
Edge|<---0.25"-----(center)-----0.25"--->|IB Edge
>
> You add
a half by adding a quarter in both directions since offset is
> measured
from "center"
>
> g8rbob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:20:55 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
Ludicrous....
Install Eibachs or Intrax springs...
Lowered 1 - 1.8 inches, minimal difference in overall ride quality...
Cutting springs on any car will guarantee a crappy ride...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov
Sent: Thursday,
December 05, 2002 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suspensions and Ride
Quality
Cut the springs and drive slowly on smooth roads. Not recommended,
but
that is the only way to lower the car and maintain the same nice
smooth
ride. It would also cost you nothing.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:26:21 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
Thanks for the correction, Ken. :)
My example should have been written
as Ken shows below.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:32:02 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
If anyone cares (Roger this is FYI) H&R makes a quality spring for our
car
that lowers it 1" (will reduce the wheel gap, but not lower so much
that
you need adjustable control arms like you need with intrax and may need
with
Eibachs') Have no experience with them so I do not know what the
ride
comfort is like.
Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 Under the Knife
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
[mailto:overclck@satx.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 7:21
AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
Ludicrous....
Install Eibachs or Intrax springs...
Lowered 1 - 1.8 inches, minimal difference in overall ride quality...
Cutting springs on any car will guarantee a crappy ride...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:51:06 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
If Vinny's remarks are directed at me, he and others can find plenty of
pictures of my SSR wheels at my web site. Go to the Garage and Gallery
pages.
Also, 3SI.org members commonly post pics of their wheels.
My "Pirelli" web page below supplies a chart comparing popular wheel/tire
combinations with respect to the stock sizes for our turbo models.
When I was shopping for new wheels I used the interactive web pages
supplied
by some of the online dealers like Tire Rack to see how the
different styles
would look. I also took the time to "Photoshop" wheels onto
pics of my car. I
even simulated the effects the decreased offset to see if
I liked the look.
As others have mentioned and cautioned, offset is important mostly just for
where the inner edge of the rim is located with respect to suspension and
body
panels and does not determine if the wheel will actually work on our
cars. The
wheel spokes must be designed/placed to clear our calipers
(basically just the
front ones). Very many wheels do not clear the calipers.
Other considerations, besides overall style, are weight (not just of the
wheel
but of the tire also) and construction (cast vs. forged; 1-piece vs.
2- or 3-
piece).
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny" <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, December 04, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel sizing?
All this talk about wheels is making me curious, LET'S SEE SOME PICS
BABY!
Everyone loves pics of new wheels!
Post the
URL.
Vinny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:54:44 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
Yes, the H&R from Germany are cheaper than the Intrax and very well
known.
They are even produced under the brand APEX Springs and Shocks to
complete
their line. They are the only ones officially available for our
cars in
Europe (and yellow coated)
At 09:32 05.12.2002 -0500, Furman, Russell wrote:
>If anyone cares
(Roger this is FYI) H&R makes a quality spring for our car
>that
lowers it 1" (will reduce the wheel gap, but not lower so much
that
>you need adjustable control arms like you need with intrax and may
need with
>Eibachs') Have no experience with them so I do not know
what the ride
>comfort is like.
>
>Russ F
>CT
>93
VR-4 Under the Knife
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:06:39 -0500
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel sizing?
Hey Jeff,
I was directing my email towards anyone with aftermarket
wheels. The
ones on your car look fantastic. I still can't believe it
but even with
those 18's the wheel well is still so big!
I saw a
member web site a few months ago that looked like he had some
kind of
Ferrari knock off wheel that looked Incredible. However I can
not find
it again. Your wheels look similar to his but his has a
single spoke
per not the tuning fork(dual spoke per) like yours.
Anyone know what the URL
is?
Thanks
vinny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:21:40 -0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
I am getting my emails at home so much delayed! Grrrrrr! I have not
seen
this post when I posted mine, which wan on exactly the same topic.
Jim,
what rim and what offset are you running? The stock 17x8.5 or 18x8.5
with
the 46 mm offset?
Philip
- ---------------------------------------------
Hmmmm --- I would assume that Tein and JIC were smart enough to allow
for
tire clearance when designing their struts. With over 1½ º of negative
camber
265 tires will rub on the stock struts --- There is very little
clearance
between the stock tire and strut, there is no room for a spring and
perch
so the spring must stop before the tire. With my GC setup I can drop
the
spring perch to where it touches the tire but that results in a 2½ "
drop.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:36:17 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Wheel sizing?
The two problem areas with rims are the caliper clearance and the tire
touching
the strut. Wheel spacers would usually solve either problem ---
H&R makes them
from 5mm to 25mm, I have the 25mm on my car to increase
the front track. the
25mm spacers and 9" rims and 255 tires cause the tire to
stick out a bit but I'm
interested in handling not looks.
Camber plates can also help if the problem is the struts --- adjust the
stock camber
setting to max positive, that moves the top of the tire out
away from the strut and
then adjust the camber plates to the desired value [
camber plates move the top
of the strut ].
Jim Berry
------------------------------
>The two problem areas with rims are the caliper clearance and
the
> tire touching the strut. Wheel spacers would usually solve
either
> problem --- H&R makes them from 5mm to 25mm, I have the 25mm
on
> my car to increase the front track. The 25mm spacers and 9"
rims
> and 255 tires cause the tire to stick out a bit but I'm
interested
> in handling not looks.
What offset wheels are those?
>Camber plates can also help if the problem is the struts ---
adjust
> the stock camber setting to max positive, that moves the top
of
> the tire out away from the strut and then adjust the camber
plates
> to the desired value [ camber plates move the top of the strut
].
> Jim Berry
I would not like to do that because then when you turn your wheels,
your
negative camber goes down the drain on the outside wheel.
Philip
------------------------------
Jim, I forgot to say. Some off-roading company here makes thick
wheel
spacers that have five Allen bolt holes and five threaded holes in
them.
You bolt that washer to the hub with Allen head bolts, and then bolt
the
wheel to spacer by threading the lug nuts into the spacer's threaded
holes.
Do you have this kind of design or you have just a plain thick spacer
and
your wheel bolts are 25 mm longer?
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:56:16 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Regarding: Discontinued Floor Mats for 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T
twinturbo
Don't get new, get them from 3SI !
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger L. Skoglund
[mailto:norbolig@online.no]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:14
PM
Subject: Team3S: Regarding: Discontinued Floor Mats for 1991
Dodge
Stealth R/T twinturbo
Hello,
perhaps a boring theme, but I was ordering a set of original Floor
Mats
for a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T twinturbo today, and was told by the
Dealer
that these are discontinued.
I would be glad if anyone could give me some advise where to find a
set
of new original floor mats (what will they cost, and was they
delivered
only in grey color?) ...
Best regards,
Roger L. Skoglund
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:48:37 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
>Jim,
>what rim and what offset are you running? The stock 17x8.5
or 18x8.5 with
>the 46 mm offset?
I'm not sure --- they are the Enkei RP01's --- 17 X 9 with 255 40
tires.
>You bolt that washer to the hub with Allen head bolts, and then bolt
the
>wheel to spacer by threading the lug nuts into the spacer's threaded
holes.
>Do you have this kind of design or you have just a plain thick
spacer and
>your wheel bolts are 25 mm longer?
The 25 mm H&R spacers use the stock studs to bolt the spacer on and
have
new studs pressed into the spacer. The thinner spacers use new longer
studs.
>I would not like to do that because then when you turn your wheels,
your
>negative camber does down the drain on the outside wheel.
Hmmm --- I'll have to think about that one. Caster will also cause the
outside
wheel to increase in negative camber and the inside to go more
positive but
I don't know the amounts. I can't immediately see why where the
camber is
applied would make a difference in dynamic camber.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:04:30 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
I've got the JIC coilovers, and Enkei RP01 17x9 wheels 42mm offset.
Haven't had any problems with rubbing or clearance. I was able to
zero out the camber in front (easily adjustable), but couldn't pull in the
rears any more than -2 degrees.
- - Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip V. Glazatov
[mailto:gphilip@umich.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:09
PM
> Subject: Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
>
> Could Tein and JIC cause some additional problems with rim
>
selection? If they are fatter (the spring goes below the
> upper edge of
the rim), would some wide rims with high
> offset rub against the spring
if I dial in a largest
> negative camber possible? Would the same rims rub
more or
> less on the stock suspension?
>
> Tein/JIC guys,
what front camber and what rims are you running?
>
> Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:09:14 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Suspensions and Ride Quality
I had the H&Rs on my car with stock shocks/struts for quite a
while. I really liked the look of them - low enough but not too
low. The ride quality was quite good. The main problem was
that over large bumps, the car would "bounce" because the shocks didn't
have enough travel to absorb the kinetic energy. The bouncing got
quite bad towards the end of the life of the shocks. As long as you
keep your shocks in good shape they'll be great. If you want to go the
spring-only route, I'd recommend them.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:07:14 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
O2 sensors will read a misfire as a lean spike. An O2 sensor measures
oxygen remaining in the exhaust, not fuel in the exhaust. In a good
combustion event, little oxygen remains because most has been used
up. When a misfire occurs, oxygen and unburnt fuel remain in the
exhaust. This oxygen combines with the exhaust from the other three
cylinders on that bank to dilute that oxygen, and the O2 sensor reports
lean dip.
I would guess that your problem is spark blowout, but checking the fuel
system at the same time is a great idea. Change your spark plugs,
gap them down to .032, and do the fuel stuff Tyson suggested.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:45:12 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S:
transmission swap recommendation
Yes it's me with the ruined stealth again. As you all may remember,
the
dealer says my tranny is "noisy" (along with most of my other
driveline
components!) and it could seize up anytime.
As far as a transmission swap, I see four options:
1) Dealer drops old tranny, I get Kormex parts and try to fix my old
tranny,
then dealer reinstalls it
2) I buy a rebuilt tranny from Kormex
and get the dealer to install it
3) I buy a new tranny from the dealer, they
install it
4) I buy a new tranny from the dealer, and use Kormex parts to
toughen it
up, then get dealer to install
I really don't feel that I have the time anymore to pull the tranny from
my
stealth by myself. Also, I've never touched tranny internals before,
so
options 1 and 4 worry me slightly. That doesn't mean I won't consider
them,
since I do have mechanical know-how and if it's not too hard to do,
then why
not?
Anyone have advice or experience with these options? Also if there's
other
options that I haven't thought of, please let me know. Keep in mind
that
this car will be a daily driver, but I do plan on taking it to the
track
when all this drama is over. Therefore, I want the tranny to hold up
through
numerous launches and hard shifts.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:03:28 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S:
5-speed to 6-speed conversion?
While I'm here swapping transfer cases and trannys should I do 5spd to
6spd
conversion? Would I be sacrificing 5-spd long life vs. 6-spd
performance?
Or would the Kormex fixes take care of the 6-spd's reliability
issues
anyway?
And are there any other factors to consider?
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:08:49 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 5-speed to 6-speed conversion?
>From what I can recall, it's not just a matter of "swapping" the 5
for
the 6. Other modifications will be necessary.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
[mailto:riyan@hotpop.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:03
PM
Subject: Team3S: 5-speed to 6-speed conversion?
While I'm here swapping transfer cases and trannys should I do 5spd
to
6spd conversion? Would I be sacrificing 5-spd long life vs.
6-spd
performance?
Or would the Kormex fixes take care of the 6-spd's reliability
issues
anyway?
And are there any other factors to consider?
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:09:17 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
transmission swap recommendation
Roger/team3s-
I've definitely considered starting over with another stealth and
that
option is surely not ruled out yet. Here is what steers me away
though:
1) I like THIS car. Black 93 stealth rt tt. Why? In 94 OBDII comes along
and
ruins my datalogging. In 92, 2 bolt main is less robust than my tough
93
motor. Also I like flip lights & I don't want the 3000gt body. Any
color
besides black is either ugly looking or too flashy IMO. (I know that
many
people disagree) Man, I'm so picky.
2) With another car, then I'll just have a new can of worms, right?
New
stuff = longer life. Plus, this is my chance to get an
aftermarket
clutch+flywheel too!
Riyan
93 rt tt
- -------->
You left out option 5.
You obtain 2 large kegs of gunpowder...
Take the car and tranny to the dealer parking lot....
Ignite kegs of powder and watch the show :)
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:14:16 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 5-speed to 6-speed conversion?
Ryan and list go to Jeff Lucius's web site he has link and page that
covers
this swap. Short list of parts needed, tranny + T-case,
6spd driveshaft or
alternate material equivalent, rear diff or gears (use
stock rear diff
housing), also may want to get the 6spd shifter cables
(depending on the age
of yours)
Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 Under the Knife
- -----Original Message-----
From: Starkey, Jr., Joseph
[mailto:starkeyje@bipc.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:09
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 5-speed to 6-speed conversion?
>From what I can recall, it's not just a matter of "swapping" the 5
for
the 6. Other modifications will be necessary.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:59:09 -0700
From: "Moe Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel sizing?
Vinny,
I just picked up a set of Enkei Enzos 18" with Pirelli P-Zeros on
them. I
have not had a chance to take pictures of the wheels yet but
here is a
picture of the car they were on before and a picture of the
rim.
Rgds
Moe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:09:01 -0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
2+ negative camber in front 2 negative back with 245/40-18 tires.
Front end
drop is approx. 1 1/2-2inches using the Tein HA setup. I have
no current
clearance issues, but I can't get my hand behind the wheel to
confirm
clearance.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Sent: Thursday,
December 05, 2002 1:08 AM
Subject: Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative
camber
> Could Tein and JIC cause some additional problems with rim selection?
If
> they are fatter (the spring goes below the upper edge of the rim),
would
> some wide rims with high offset rub against the spring if I dial
in a
> largest negative camber possible? Would the same rims rub more or
less on
> the stock suspension?
>
> Tein/JIC guys, what front
camber and what rims are you running?
>
> Philip
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:14:22 -0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide rims and negative camber
Phillip,
My previous post failed to mention the 15mm track spacers I'm running
in
front.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
Sent:
Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tein, JIC, wide
rims and negative camber
> I am getting my emails at home so much delayed! Grrrrrr! I have not
seen
> this post when I posted mine, which wan on exactly the same topic.
Jim,
> what rim and what offset are you running? The stock 17x8.5 or
18x8.5 with
> the 46 mm offset?
>
> Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:15:16 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: stuttering boost problem.....?
> Also, I think with spark blowout you should not have
> your AF
gauge getting leaner, quite the opposite since
> raw gasoline will be in
the exhaust it should show
> full rich.
Assuming you have an oxygen sensor for your A/F gauge, then spark
blowout
will show up as lean[spikes] on your A/F gauge. When your
cylinder doesn't
fire because the spark doesn't happen, then there's plenty
of oxygen in your
exhaust, which will cause your O2 sensor voltage to drop
(read lean). It
sounded counter-intuitive to me at first, but it makes
sense if you think
about it.
<fuel pump rewiring...>
> There is another way, a better way to
do the mod but you will
> have to ask Erik Gross or look in the archives.
He posted
> it a few months ago.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:04:17 -0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore"
<
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Question about 3000GT clutch replacement price
Robbin,
I assume West Lafayette, Indiana? I'm south of Bloomington, so don't
have
any mechanic recommendations, but...
I recently went through a similar scenario. I agree with the others
that
hydraulics are probably the problem, and most likely the slave
cylinder.
Much less expensive than $1100!! Check and see if you have
any hydraulic
fluid leaking into the car up by the pedals. If not, you
probably don't
have master cylinder problems.
My experience with the stock clutch is better than Tigran's,
apparently. I
had one last ~90k miles, including about 25K in Northern
VA traffic. This
is on a 93 Stealth ES: if your car is a turbo that
might change things.
Hope this helps.
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Sent: Tuesday,
December 03, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Question about 3000GT clutch
replacement price
Anything but. Stock clutch slips and goes up in smoke way too easy.
6-12
hard launches and its done. I got a 4 puck sprung hub on my car now.
Little
too much like a clutch switch... I would recommend more people to go
one
step down. Stage 2-3. Spec and RPS seem to be the better choices. If
you
don't do racing, I am sure your clutch will last you a while. I wore
mine
out in about a year. Over the course of the year I did maybe 9 hard
launches
with it, and it was gone.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#17
**************************************
