Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, November 22
2002 Volume 02 : Number 006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:37:37 -0800
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Opportunity for Advanced High Performance Driving School
Thunderhill (in Northern California near Willows) is conducting an Advanced
High Performance Driving School on November 30, 2002 (Saturday). Currently
there are only 11 entrants, including at least two Team3s members. This is
an SCCA school and costs $195, including lunch. During the normal school we
get 6 sessions of 20 minutes each. This will be my first advanced school so
I have yet to know how much time we will get. I'm thinking it may be
more.
If you think you might be interested, check out their web site at
www.thunderhill.com and download their
application to fax in. With so few
entrants it may be a fantastic event for
lots of track time and access to
SCCA instructors.
Hope to see some of you at the advance school. I've really been learning a
lot about my 91 VR4 at these driving schools.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:59:48 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What the heck are the pre-cats?
>> a good idea if you have afc, arc, or other fuel
>>
correction system is to just run the car very lean
>> when you go in
for the smog check.
While HC and CO might drop marginally, NOx increases appreciably when A/F
is
less than 14.7 (or "lean"). Also the catalytic converter is designed to
work
best with the oxygen content in the exhaust stream within a narrow
range -
which is, yes you guessed it, near a 14.7 A/F.
Now for why it won't (likely) work. The emissions tests (at least here in
Colorado) are conducted in a no/low-load situation so the engine will be
running in closed loop. The ECM will try to maintain a 14.7 A/F in closed
loop
mode (using the fuel trims), despite adjustments with an air flow
signal
conditioner (AFC, ARC2, VPC). While I have not tried this, adjusting
the "AFC"
so that the ECM can no longer bring the A/F back to 14.7 (in
closed loop) will
likely not have the engine running optimally. But as
mentioned above, pushing
the closed-loop A/F away from 14.7 is a bad idea
anyway.
==========================================
Members that pass emissions
without a main cat have mentioned only anecdotal
evidence for this. I have
heard many stories of failure from 3S owners trying
to pass emissions with a
gutted main cat (the precats are not needed in any
case). You folks that
have passed, please post the *actual numbers* for your
*3S car* so that we
can see if your emissions would pass our local state
tests. Thanks.
=========================================
Some comments on the Federal
prohibition against tampering with any component
associated with emissions -
by owner, mechanic, neighbor, whatever. From the
article below, "In a
nutshell, there essentially are no legal exhaust
modifications."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:08:40 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: What the heck are the pre-cats?
Of note here is that on pump gas with no catalytic converters most people
will not pass, however If I can find the paperwork I will show you what a
mix of 2 gal of 94 octane and 5 gals of denatured alcohol can do for
your
emissions :) On my former MKIV I ran a RMM D/P and
Blitz Nur spec D/P
back exhaust and passed with in acceptable tolerance with
not catalytic converters of any type.
A second point of interest is that if you give the emission inspectors no
reason to look closely at your car they will generally take you emission
numbers at face value (the exception to this is Cali where from what I
have heard a visual inspection is a part of the entire process).
This was under
the old CT way of doing things..... What the
future holds under the new
system that is in the pipeline I just don't
know?
Russ F
CT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:05:59 -0600
From: David Allison <
daedel@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What
the heck are the pre-cats?
I just read a whole discussion on the rx7club.com forums about using
denatured alcohol to pass emissions. The consensus was that you should
really only do a 1/20 mixture of methanol/gasoline. Too much methanol
will dry rot your seals because the alcohol will suck the water out of
them. They also recommended doing this with no more than 5 gallons or so
so that you can dilute the alcohol as much as possible as soon as
possible.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:10:28 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: What the heck are the pre-cats?
Dave, my previous recommendation/idea was meant only to as "extremely short
term" idea. with in a 1/2 hour doing this I had filled the tank up
(added almost 11 gallons of 94 octane to dilute the mixture that was
present) I would never run as a long term mixture due to the reason
you listed below.
Russ "needs to be more clear" F
CT
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Allison
[mailto:daedel@mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What the heck are the pre-cats?
I just read a whole discussion on the rx7club.com forums about using
denatured alcohol to pass emissions. The consensus was that you should
really only do a 1/20 mixture of methanol/gasoline. Too much methanol
will dry rot your seals because the alcohol will suck the water out of
them. They also recommended doing this with no more than 5 gallons or so
so that you can dilute the alcohol as much as possible as soon as
possible.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:19:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From:
"Jeff & Debby Kelley" <
spiritliving@canby.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: replacement idea for Teflon tape?
I've used
permitex gasket sealer in a tube, The none hardening kind.
It
says it holds up against gas, It worked on one of my cars fuel filter
connections that would not stop leaking. Jeff 93 Stealth
- -------Original Message-------
From:
riyan@hotpop.comDate: Wednesday, November
20, 2002 11:52:47 PM
Subject: Team3S: replacement idea for Teflon
tape?
I have tried screwing in my fuel pressure sensor t-fitting
with Teflon tape, and it still leaks. I just can't get it to stop. I have
tried using just 2 layers of Teflon tape (the first time) and up to 5
layers of it (the second
time) before screwing the barb fittings in. I use a
vise and wrench to screw them very tight. any ideas on an alternative? I
do have some J-B weld...but unfortunately that would be a one-shot deal.
and if it leaked, there wouldn't be any going back! I searched the web and
found something called permatex thread sealant. should I try this? any
other ideas?
thanks,
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:24:57 -0500
From: Michael Tanenbaum <
gtg509d@mail.gatech.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: hesitation - bad coolant temp sensor?
Hi,
Thank you again for all of your advice and help with my car. I
replaced the
ECU with my own labor and the car is running now - however, it
hesitates at low
speeds and RPMs like it did with the old ECU. The
mechanic hooked it up to his
computer and didn't find anything. He
suggested maybe the coolant temp sensor
was bad. Does this sound right
and is this something I can do myself? He said
it would be about
$25-60 for the part and about the same for labor. Thanks for
the
help.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:27:13 -0500
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Ticking behind dash gauge pod
Thanks for all the responses to my Ticking behind the dash problem.
Most of you say it's lifter tick but the TICK noise seems to be coming
from inside the dash right behind the three gauge pod not from the behind
the firewall/engine bay area.
Do you still think it's lifter tick? It doesn't
fluctuate with engine RPM so that's why I don't think it's lifter
tick.
Thanks again for any help!
Vinny
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ticking
behind dash gauge pod
> Probably the "Canister Purge Solenoid" doing its job?
>
Dave Thrower
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:45:33 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Ticking behind dash gauge pod
Are you running with the stock boost solenoid?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:22:57 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: FPR question
if you are running rich at WOT under high boost at all rpms is your FPR
definitely working correctly?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:22:59 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: hesitation - bad coolant temp sensor?
MD149338 $25.22 coolant sensor from
www.mitsupartsdirect.com and you can
change it yourself in about 5 minutes ... although I've heard there are
3-4 of them??
the manual suggests the same thing for that problem
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Tanenbaum
Sent: Thursday,
November 21, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Team3S: hesitation - bad coolant temp
sensor?
Hi,
Thank you again for all of your advice and help with my car. I
replaced the ECU with my own labor and the car is running now - however,
it hesitates at low speeds and RPMs like it did with the old ECU.
The mechanic hooked it up to his computer and didn't find anything. He
suggested maybe the coolant temp sensor was bad. Does this sound
right and is this something I can do myself? He said it would be
about $25-60 for the part and about the same for labor. Thanks for
the help.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:55:39 -0800
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Ticking behind dash gauge pod
It may be the speedometer or something associated with it.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny" <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday,
November 21, 2002 3:27 PM
Subject: Team3S: Ticking behind dash gauge
pod
| Thanks for all the responses to my Ticking behind the dash problem.
| Most of you say it's lifter tick but the TICK noise seems to be
|
coming from inside the dash right behind the three gauge pod not
| from the
behind the firewall/engine bay area.
|
| Do you
still think it's lifter tick? It doesn't fluctuate with
| engine RPM
so that's why I don't think it's lifter
tick.
|
| Thanks again for
any help!
|
| Vinny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:51:10 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From:
"Jeff & Debby Kelley" <
spiritliving@canby.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ticking behind dash gauge pod
I'm with you, My last car's speedo ticked all the time.
At real
slow speeds sounded really loud!
Jeff
93 Stealth
-
-------Original Message-------
From: Andrew Woll
Date: Thursday,
November 21, 2002 5:00:16 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ticking behind dash gauge
pod
It may be the speedometer or something associated with
it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:19:02 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
What the heck are the pre-cats?
Alex-
Since you're ODBII, I believe you will need to replace 'em (o2 sensors)
often if you have gutted pre-cats. You have two pairs of o2 sensors--one
before and one after the pre-cats...right? The second pair (after the
pre-cats) will compare the signal with the first pair to make sure the
pre-cats are in "good operating condition"...and if they're gutted, then clearly
they're not!
The pre-cat eliminator kit will give you two smooth housings (rather than a
rough gutted housing). It is also a larger diameter than the stock units,
so you will benefit slightly more from having a larger diameter downpipe
such as the Stillen in conjunction with the o2 housings. Be forewarned
that replacing the rear o2 housing is a real PITA. It's almost hard enough for
me to say don't do it unless you're swapping turbos too. A step-by-step
process is in the archives. Let me know if you need help looking it
up.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:48:12 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
replacement idea for Teflon tape?
To clear the confusion, I'm talking about an aftermarket fuel pressure
sensor, not the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock FPR seems to be
doing fine. This aftermarket sensor is tapped in right after the fuel
filter output.
My assembly looks practically identical to Jeff's.
It already does have clamps. When I first make the fitting, it stays
leakproof for a little while. But as I drive (especially if I boost) then
it smells of fuel from the area. The fuel seems to be leaking from the
places where the two barb fittings screw into the female "T" fitting since
those two pieces of Teflon tape get dark and rotted out. I will check my
fitting for cracks since I haven't done that yet. I'll look into the fuel
tank epoxy. I suppose I could coat the threads with it, and then just put
a huge blob of it around the whole area. Now that I think about it...worst
case scenario if I did a "permanent" connection using an epoxy would be
needing to go back to Greddy and order that little sensor...and pay for like $5
in barb fitting and such. That's no big deal. Thanks a lot for the advice
guys. One last question. Any of you know if J-B weld would hold up against
fuel? I see many people on the web using JB weld to patch fuel tank leaks.
I'll check the local auto parts store for a "fuel proof" epoxy beforehand
(although I think JB weld is one)
Riyan
- ------>
"AI Nut" wrote:
Do you have enough room to add a stainless clamp on the fitting?
-
------------------->
"Joseph" wrote:
Did you look for cracks?
- ---------------------------->
"Jim Fay" wrote:
You can try
the epoxy used for gas tank repair, with no thread
tape.
- ------------------------------------>
"David L." wrote:
I've bought loctite that has Teflon in it, and I've used it in place of
Teflon tape with success.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:23:48 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
What the heck are the pre-cats?
I don't have gutted pre-cats yet, but that's definitely on my to do list.
Right now I'm gathering info on everything I can, because what I'm
probably gonna end up doing is parking the car this coming summer (I
should be done with school by then), pulling the engine to overbore and
swap to forged internals, and doing all the turbo-related stuff while it's out.
I really don't wanna mess with getting the rear turbo out while the engine
is in the car (since I plan on going to something significantly larger,
and I had a hard enough time getting to the egr pipe), so I'll just
wait.
But still - $500 for a nice looking pipe that no one will ever see seems a
little extreme, don't you think? Anyone care to offer a cheaper
alternative? All it seems to be is a properly bent pipe...
BTW, what about running the input from the first set of o2 sensors into
both inputs? Would that fool the system? And one more thing - I thought
only cali cars had 2 pairs of o2s, while the rest of us only have
1...
Alex.
'95 VR$$$
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
Sent: Thursday,
November 21, 2002 2:19 PM
To: Alex Pedenko; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S:
What the heck are the pre-cats?
Alex-
Since you're ODBII, I believe you will need to replace 'em (o2 sensors)
often if you have gutted pre-cats. You have two pairs of o2 sensors--one
before and one after the pre-cats...right? The second pair (after the
pre-cats) will compare the signal with the first pair to make sure the
pre-cats are in "good operating condition"...and if they're gutted, then clearly
they're not!
The pre-cat eliminator kit will give you two smooth housings (rather than a
rough gutted housing). It is also a larger diameter than the stock units,
so you will benefit slightly more from having a larger diameter downpipe
such as the Stillen in conjunction with the o2 housings. Be forewarned
that replacing the rear o2 housing is a real PITA. It's almost hard enough for
me to say don't do it unless you're swapping turbos too. A step-by-step
process is in the archives. Let me know if you need help looking it
up.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:38:42 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: FPR question
At 19:22 11/21/2002, Bill vp wrote:
>if you are running rich at WOT
under high boost at all rpms is your FPR
>definitely working
correctly?
This only tells you that your fuel pressure is NOT LOW. This does NOT mean
it is NOT HIGH (could be high). Installing a fuel pressure gauge clears all
the doubts.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:49:41 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
What the heck are the pre-cats?
thanks for the correction, jeff. forgot about the nox! (which stands for
oxides of nitrogen, in case anyone is wondering)
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:35:26 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: replacement idea for Teflon tape?
Brass fittings right? Can't these be "soldered" like plumbing pipe? There
really is no reason to ever separate the T from the coupler or hose barbs.
I've sweated straight pipe but never threaded pipe, so I don't know if this
is
a good idea or not.
When using Teflon tape, be sure that it wraps the threads at least one
complete time but not more than twice. The Teflon will hinder the seal if
too
thick.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Sent: Thursday,
November 21, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: replacement idea for Teflon
tape?
To clear the confusion, I'm talking about an aftermarket fuel pressure
sensor, not the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock FPR seems to be
doing fine. This aftermarket sensor is tapped in right after the fuel
filter output.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:45:04 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
replacement idea for Teflon tape?
I haven't followed this too closely but make sure you have the right
fittings. The sender is probably a pipe fitting meaning it's a tapered
pipe thread, the
further you screw it in the wider it gets to form a seal
--- if it's bottoming out it won't seal properly. You could probably
solder but the sender is leaking and I don't know if it could take that
kind of heat.
Jim
Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Sent:
Friday, November 22, 2002 7:35 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: replacement idea for
Teflon tape?
> Brass fittings right? Can't these be "soldered" like plumbing
pipe?
> There really is no reason to ever separate the T from the
coupler
> or hose barbs. I've sweated straight pipe but never threaded
pipe,
> so I don't know if this is a good idea or not.
>
>
When using Teflon tape, be sure that it wraps the threads at least
> one
complete time but not more than twice. The Teflon will hinder
> the seal
if too thick.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:41:26 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Bay Area- NASA weekend at Sears Point! Last call...
Here's a final reminder about this weekend at Sears Point Raceway
(Infineon)... This is for the NASA HPDE (High Performance Driving
Events) Saturday and Sunday, Nov23/34. See the NASA site for
details,
www.nasaproracing.com and
click the Northern California link. There are at least 7 cars coming
(including 2 from San Diego), with 3 more 'possible' Team3S folks not yet signed
up, and a few locals coming to watch... We'll be setting up our pit
area right near the grandstands - make a right as soon as you enter the
track, and follow the garages until the end, then go left to follow the
grandstand. Look for a bunch of Stealth/3000GT folks, Geoff's white
trailer and our two (green) 8x12 tents. We'll be setting up around
7AM for tech inspection, and the drivers meeting is at 8AM.
It looks like it will be another wonderful weekend... BE there!
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#6
*************************************
