Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, November 18
2002 Volume 02 : Number 002
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:18:02 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
Tyson: I played with the clutch and I couldn't get the bottom end tick to
go away. It didn't change at all.
The tick doesn't start until the engine has warmed up completely (to the
point where the radiator fan cycles on and off). After 1K rpm it's gone.
I'm pretty sure it is, anyway. It could be the engine is just loud enough
to cover up the noise (remember it's a very soft tick). But I listened
very closely many times, and I'm pretty sure the tick goes away after 1000 RPM.
When the engine was ticking, the oil pressure light was not on. It won't
turn on unless I drive it for awhile first. Before I replace the sensor
switch I'm gonna try driving and see if I can hear the tick when I'm
stopped and the oil pressure light is on. I'm doing this since I only want to
change one variable at a time. I'll hope for the best...
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:28:49 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
I don't know man... Others on here would know better than I, but I don't
think you can hear rod bearings going out... Check the timing on all 4
cams and crank. If you are off 1 tooth on any of the cams you will get
tiny bit of valve-piston interference. Doubt that would be it, but check
it. Otherwise, I think its just lifter tick. Watch your oil pressure gauge
too. Maybe its a bit low at idle...
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:45:30 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ECU update (car started the first time but not since)
True but in the case of our ECUs the damage is always done by the
electrolyte long before a change in ESR is detectable.
Steve
> I'm a recent owner of a '93 Stealth TT, so I might be missing
> something here, but in my electrical engineering experience,
>
replacing leaking capacitors, if found quickly, can fix
> problems.
Yes, if let go for too long, the electrolyte can
> corrode through
traces. However, a capacitor whose
> Equivalent Series Resistance
(ESR) has changed due to losing
> electrolyte and therefore not shunting
noise to ground or not
> allowing a clock signal to pass at full amplitude
can cause
> problems by itself long before damage to the board
occurs,
> especially on a well-postcoated board.
>
>
-Rod
> '93 Stealth TT
------------------------------
Hey guys, about two weeks ago a deer hit may car in the door, the insurance
is just now getting me my check to me, I got an estimate for 2,300 dollars.
I
have to get a new door skin and fender and paint the entire drivers side.
My
problem is that the car is black and as you all probably know it shows
all
the small scratches in the clear coat, the way that I look at it is if
he
just paints the drivers side it is going to look good but the rest of the
car
is going to look terrible, I asked the guy about painting the whole car
but
he will not do it. My question is what should I do, should I go to him
and
then take it some where else to paint the rest of the car, should I just
try
to buff the rest of the car, or should I just take it some where else
and get
them to do it all. One more question about how much is too
much to have
someone to paint my car. Sorry about the length of the
e-mail.
Thanks
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:40:38 -0600
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Wheel
sizing?
Does anyone know what the limits are to the wheel sizes that will fit on
our cars? For example, maybe 18x9.5 with 30mm offset? How do you know the
minimum offset until you start rubbing your fenders? I've found data for
the stock wheel sizes, and if I go to websites that offer wheels and have
fitment guides, it seems like they just use factory specs... Thanks in advance
for any help...
-b
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:07:33 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
Tyson-
I just finished my 60k and checked the timing many, many times. My front
bank exhaust cam had slipped 2 or 3 teeth and I realigned it. Compression
numbers came out solid (within 6 to 8 psi or so). Therefore, I don't
think it's valve interference. I'll keep that idea in mind though.
Thanks,
Riyan
93 rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:49:27 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
You just did a 60k and you have noise? Definitely pull the covers off and
check it again on all 5 points!
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
Sent: Sunday,
November 17, 2002 12:08 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: which bearings are accessible
when oil pan is dropped?
Tyson-
I just finished my 60k and checked the timing many, many times. My front
bank exhaust cam had slipped 2 or 3 teeth and I realigned it. Compression
numbers came out solid (within 6 to 8 psi or so). Therefore, I don't
think it's valve interference. I'll keep that idea in mind though.
Thanks,
Riyan
93 rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:12:41 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Accel Coil Mod
And what amplifier have you used on what gap and what spark plug wires with
what spark plugs (new ones?) ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Sent: Sunday,
November 17, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: Team3S: Accel Coil Mod
> Well, I just finished adding the Accell Super Coils to my VR4. WOW,
> more responsive on low end, the car runs and idles smoother and what I
> thought might be spark blowout around 5000 RPM on WOT seems to be
> gone.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:58:26 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
yea. 0 PSI compression. Likely have broken valve heads. May be able to tare
into it next weekend...
Round-about what I heard from people whom had it happen is that at (talking
Cam gears here) 1 tooth will not cause interference. You will lose power
and run worse mileage but some people don't even notice. 2 teeth is where
you start to hit valves but slightly. Usually if caught right away and
reset you can get away with it. 3+ your hosed. 4 Broken valve heads.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Fay
[mailto:jfay@tssu.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:23 AM
Subject:
RE: Team3S: which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
Tyson
He got away with 3 cam teeth slip, you had 4 by the crank slipping 2.
have you determined damage or checked compression after trying a
realignment.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 08:00:38 -0800
From: "Shawn Keren" <
nouveau3@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Accel Coil Mod
No spark amplifier, Accell 300+ Thundersport wires, Champion copper
plugs at .035 gap installed 2 weeks ago.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Sent:
Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Accel Coil Mod
> And what amplifier have you used on what gap and what spark plug
wires
> with what spark plugs (new ones?) ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:35:06 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: dyno charts (GTO UK)
The dyno charts compiled by GTO UK members in September are
available
at:
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC) A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy) Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided
lines, red calipers Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph 1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:55:41 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
spinning bearing? piston slap? anyone know a good rebuilder?
You know, when I did my 60k, I spun every pulley by hand to make sure they
ran smooth. The A/C pulley ran smooth but it did tick slightly (even with
no belt load on it). Perhaps that's what it is. However, it seems strange
that the ticking noise would change as it is...
1) tick won't start until engine is warm
2) tick goes away after 1000
rpm
Thanks for bringing up this very good point though. To my list of ideas, I
will add removal of A/C / alternator belt and see if that changes the
sound at all.
- ------>
"Donald A." wrote:
I have a soft ticking that's not
lifter tick, I was told it has something to do with the a/c
-
----------------->
Riyan
93 rt tt
tick tick tick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:08:53 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
sure, I'll check again. why not :)
- ------------------------------> "Tyson" wrote:
You just did a 60k
and you have noise? Definitely pull the covers off and check it again on all
5 points!
- ------------>
Wow. I either had slipped 2 or 3 teeth off and I'm not sure how long I was
driving like this. I think it was at least 200 or so miles. I did notice
that the bank where the belt slipped had slightly more fouled up plugs.
Regardless, I wonder if you can really make a blanket statement like what
you said below. My belt slipped on that front exhaust cam and turned it
counter-clockwise (retarded it). Wouldn't the chances of valve interference
change based on exhaust vs. intake cam slip (different valve timing) and
also change based on advanced or retarded as well?
if you go to my website
http://www.advantedgecomputing.com/stllow/stealth.htm
[hasn't been updated for awhile] you can see under 8/16/02 events how my
car acted differently after what I thought was the belt slipping. Exhaust
note became louder and idle began hunting etc.
- ------------------------> "Tyson" wrote:
(talking Cam gears here) 1
tooth will not cause interference. You will lose power and run worse
mileage but some people don't even notice. 2 teeth is where you start to hit
valves but slightly. Usually if caught right away and reset you can get
away with it. 3+ your hosed. 4 Broken valve heads.
-
------------>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:47:23 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dyno charts (GTO UK)
Interesting group of charts --- a couple of observations based on a short
survey of the runs.
anybody care to explain why the drag numbers varied from about 80 hp to 160
hp for a very similar group of cars --- we've covered drivetrain loss on
many occasions but a 100% difference seems out of line.
I assume the runs were done on a brake dyno --- it would be interesting to
get one of the big HP cars out there and see if they can turn 550 HP at
the wheels on those dynos.
Some real interesting charts --- looks like some tuning is in order for
some
folks, big peaks or flat spots. Running with a data logger would be
interesting.
Jim Berry
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:44:32 -0600
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: dyno
charts (GTO UK)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brake dyno would be measured at the crank,
right? I'm thinking those numbers WERE measured at the wheels, judging by
the pictures it looks like they're on a wheel
dyno...
-b
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
[mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject:
Re: Team3S: dyno charts (GTO UK)
Interesting group of charts --- a couple of observations based on a short
survey of the runs.
anybody care to explain why the drag numbers varied from about 80 hp to 160
hp for a very similar group of cars --- we've covered drivetrain loss on
many occasions but a 100% difference seems out of line.
I assume the runs were done on a brake dyno --- it would be interesting to
get one of the big HP cars out there and see if they can turn 550 HP at
the wheels on those dynos.
Some real interesting charts --- looks like some tuning is in order for
some
folks, big peaks or flat spots. Running with a data logger would be
interesting.
Jim Berry
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:58:02 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dyno charts (GTO UK)
There are a couple of types of chassis dynos and the engine dyno. The
chassis dyno or as the Brits say --- rolling road dyno are wheel dynos.
Brake dynos use electric motors to simulate load and can actually simulate
a road trip or a race track as far as drive wheel load is concerned. The
most common type in the US is the inertial dyno which uses a weighted drum [
pair of drums in the case of a 4 wheel dyno ]. The throttle is
applied and the rate at which it accelerates the drums is used to
calculate HP. Many feel that the results of the inertial dyno are very
optimistic.
Jim Berry
=======================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 17,
2002 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dyno charts (GTO UK)
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brake dyno would be measured at the
> crank, right? I'm thinking those numbers WERE measured at
the
wheels, judging by the pictures it looks like they're on a wheel
dyno...
> -b
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:08:33 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
which bearings are accessible when oil pan is dropped?
bringing the list up to speed: Jim B. found someone named Cyrus who could
potentially help me out if I get as far as needing a rebuild.
- ----------------------->
to Jim B:
lol. n.p. it's all good. while you're corresponding with him, here is
my diagnosis list in order. The diagnosis order assumes that each step
doesn't seem to help and I need to try something else. You can forward
this to Cyrus.
1) try to get the engine hot enough for that oil pressure warning light to
come on at idle! (couldn't do it today since it's too cold outside)
2)
see if the sound is any different with the oil pressure warning light on
3)
change the oil pressure warning switch. see if the warning light comes on more
often, less often, or goes away
4) buy an automotive stethoscope. see
if I can pinpoint sound with this alone
5) record the tick as a .wav into my
laptop if possible. post it on my website.
6) remove A/C-Alternator belt and
see if sound changes or goes away
7) remove power steering belt. see if sound
changes or goes away
8) check timing (probably a waste of time since I've
already done it like 10
times!!) but hey, why not...
9) drop oil pan [gut
rear pre-cat while I'm here, maybe put the PST 1-piece CFDS in too!].
10)
shake the crank and see if it has a lash. turn the engine 180 degrees to access
other rods and try again. <--- may want to have Cyrus around for this
step---I'm unfamiliar with bottom ends
11) (if necessary) blueprint and
rebuild the bottom end using tougher bearings, probably swap out pistons
w/forged ones (maybe rods too) while I'm here <--- will definitely want Cyrus
around if I find that a rebuild is necessary
Let me know if any of you think I should add or remove anything, or do
anything differently.
Riyan
93 rt tt
- ------------->
"fastmax" wrote:
I just got an email from him [Cyrus] last night with a response to some
questions I asked and crafted a long response with additional questions
and a query concerning your problems --- lo and behold my damn computer
ate the message so I'll have to start over.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#2
*************************************