Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Sunday, November 10 2002   Volume 01 : Number 994
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:12:16 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing marks on the crank Pulley (Continuation: Prayer didn't help...)
 
Tyson-
 
1. Performance parts.
 
Performance parts are never cheap. I'm going to be a distributor soon (pending return of paperwork  and opening accts with the dealers) If the timing works out -- no pun intended =) -- then I'll see  if I can get you a deal on some of this stuff.
 
2. Driving on bent valves?
 
I don't know if it's safe to drive on bent valves. Wouldn't it wear the valve guides and cam  bearings? Sure, I don't think a compression check would hurt things much. Also, a short period of  idling to verify the engine's condition *probably* isn't enough to do much (still, I'm not sure).  But chances are that extended periods of driving will hurt something. But wait for another post  from someone else on the list or an experienced mechanic to give you a second opinion, because  that's getting into stuff that I don't really know too well.
 
3. While you're waiting . . .
 
Regardless, A compression check would be a good start. A cylinder leakage test would be a lit more  informative IMO. If it were me, I would try to gain an understanding of what exactly a jumped  crank would do (if you don't already). And I mean (if you have the time), you can put together the  firing order and use the technical specs of the car...clearances and all--Jeff L.'s timing events  page would be a great aid here--and find theoretically which valves would have been bent based on  how many degrees the number of teeth equates to (360 degrees divided by # of crank teeth), and try  to compare this to the actual results of the compression & cyl. leakage tests. That would give you  reassurance as to what exactly happened. Just a thought.
 
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:28:18 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
I used one can for each bank... sprayed a little lower manifold to get the valves this time too...  and I have one can left to spray in the car while it idles. thanks for the advice. in case you're  curious, I got many little bits of black. they're everywhere. I sucked out the excess c.c. cleaner  and cranked w. disconnected coil to get rid of the rest. the little black specs are all over the 6  spark plug holes and towels. it's great to get it all out. I can't believe my car had so much in  there. I think it's because the previous owner lugged the engine. lots of conservative driving and  shifts at 2500 to 2750 rpm=an engine in good condition...but lotsa carbon deposits! plus 188000  miles. that'll do it. for anyone else that happens to be doing spark plug change or otherwise  removing the plenum, I'd highly recommend this. check the web or the archived digests (or ask me)  for a detailed procedure.
 
Riyan
proud owner of...
a 93 stealth tt with clean cylinder walls!
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:18:54 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing marks on the crank Pulley (Continuation: Prayer didn't help...)
 
Yes that's right. On one stroke when crank is at TDC, the cam marks won't line up at all! Then on  the next stroke they should all line up perfect or near-perfect. You can do a two-way check.
 
1) Turn the crank to TDC twice. Did the cam marks line up either time? yes? you're all good. no?  =(
 
2) Turn the crank until the cam marks (off or on-vehicle) line up. Is the crank lined up at TDC  now? yes? you're all good. no? =(
 
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:30:03 -0000
From: "George Shaw" <george.shaw@ukf.net>
Subject: Team3S: OT: New Zealand members question
 
Can any members from New Zealand help me out? I am thinking of moving to NZ this year and am  wondering about bring my car with me (UK 3000GT RHD).
 
Price of fuel? Price of Tax & insurance? Value of cars in NZ?
 
PLEASE email me direct and off list.
 
- --
George Shaw MI3GTO
 
" Any Sufficiently Advanced Technology
is Indistinguishable from Magic"
                          ---Arthur C. Clarke
 
Mobile: +44 (0) 7740 361 163
Email: george.shaw@ukf.net
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:00:46 -0600
From: AINut <ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
What did you spray into the engine?
 
Thanks,
AI Nut
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:30:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: UGH!! HELP!!
 
Oh please, please don't tell me there is no way around
this front license plate law!!
Have any of you seen the front plate bracket for the
99 front end?? It is the ugliest piece of trash you
could imagine!! And talk about totally destroying the
beautiful round curves of the 99!!
HELP WHAT CAN I DO!!!
Anyone know how to make a motorized unit that will
raise and lower the front plate, James Bond Style?
This is horrible, I can't take it.... I must take this
ugly thing off... I guess I gotta risk a ticket, I
can't stand it!!
HELP!!!
Roger L
F15DOC
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:36:17 EST
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: DSM question
 
Hi guys-
 
I'm sorry for the kind of off topic question here but it kinda relates.
 
My girlfriend is interested in a second generation eclipse GS Non-turbo. Can
any of you guys tell me more about them in a mechanical sense. Unlike our 3/S
beasts, they have an engine designed by Dodge. . .how do they hold up?
 
please reply off list, thank you for the help
 
- -mike
97 SL
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:08:01 +0000
From: "gareth hannah" <alcoholika_02@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: UGH!! HELP!!
 
Why don't you just put the license plate on your windshield, where the
defroster vents are. at least if you get pulled over you could say that you
tried, or that you haven't received a bracket yet from the dealership, any
story might help.
good luck
gareth 92 rt/tt
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:14:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: UGH!! HELP!!
 
Nope can't do that, the Washington State Patrol
actually dislikes that even more then not having one,
something about increased injury risk in case of a
motor vehicle accident....
What I really need is some sort of flip up/down
mechanism.... come on surely somebody has done
something like this... am I to be the first, maybe I
can become rich off this and not care if I get a
ticket or not....  :)
I am taking that damn thing off tomorrow, first thing.
Roger L
F15DOC
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:53:32 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
Well, today I got the pulley off of my car to reset the timing and finally see what it was that  caused the belt to skip. What I found has made more angry than you can imagine. The timing belt  covers have a rubber seal which over time becomes hard, especially by the heads and turns  essentially into VERY hard, brittle plastic. A piece of that fell off of my timing belt cover when  I removed it and got into the crank pulley causing it to skip 2 teeth. I found small pieces of it  right under the crank gear... Mitsubishi does not sell the gaskets separately and I could never  justify the $85 expense. I never though that these could possibly cause a problem like that... The  cover is like a ticking time bomb. I am going to seriously look into legal action for this as  there are laws that prevent car makers from doing these types of things.
 
Anyhow, a word of warning, check your gaskets, they can do the same to your car!
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:59:05 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
Your answer is in the subject ;)
He probably used Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner. You can find info on the procedure on the DSM  site... www.dsm.org. I have used it before and can vouch for the results. One note... When you  first start up the car after using it, it will smoke for a while till you drive it around the  block. My neighbors almost had a conniption when they saw the smoke screen I left behind ;)
 
Omar
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
What did you spray into the engine?
 
Thanks,
AI Nut
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:16:21 -0800
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
A little side note here.  Water injection systems clean all of the carbon out of your engine as  well.
 
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:59:47 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
Tyson-
 
Mitsu does sell the gaskets separately. The part numbers are in CAPS and everything. I bought a  brand new set of timing cover gaskets for my 60k. I'd recommend them to be added to our existing  60k parts list. I pried the old gaskets off with a screwdriver and used permagasket high-tack  spray-a-gasket in order to make the new gaskets stick to the timing covers before attaching them.  You can look into legal action, but you may have trouble justifying it since the gaskets IMO  should be changed every 60K miles. However, that's just IMO. And there is one small exception  here. In the stealth manual (prob. 3000gt manual too), any gasket that *should* be replaced when  its corresponding cover is removed is marked specifically with an "N". So depending on whether or  not this part is marked with the "N" (non-reusable), these are the two favorable possibilities  that may exist.
 
1) If the "N" does exist for timing cover gaskets (meaning timing cover gaskets MUST be replaced  every time the timing cover is removed) then the dealer should have replaced them at 60K. If they  did not, go try and collect your rebuild check.
 
2) The other case... if you did at the last 60K (whether or not you had a dealer do it) and the  "N" marking does not exist for those gaskets, then you can claim that they should have marked the  gasket with the "N" since it gets brittle and causes a hazard. Your claim would be "Mitsu's  failure to mark this part as "non-reusable" is sufficient grounds for them to pay for your new  engine"
 
Good luck,
 
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:11:22 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
Omar, believe me, I tested that, it is 100% what caused my belt to skip! The rubber gets VERY  hard. As a test I broke off another piece (my motor is fried anyway, so what the hell) and put it  in the crank gear teeth. Then I turned the crank with a wrench. Sure enough a little 1" piece of  that crap made the belt skip! Omar, this is a VERY serious hazard. Check your gaskets man!
 
Tyson
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Omar Malik [mailto:ojm@iname.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
Honestly, I'll say that I doubt those small pieces of brittle rubber caused your timing belt to  skip like that. If they had come under the belt like that, they would have stuck to either the  sprocket or the belt and continued rotating through the track till they were flattened or turned  to dust. I have come across pieces of this rubber under the crank gear countless times where the  timing belt had not skipped teeth. Unless 3 or more of these pieces all got stuck under the timing  belt on the crank sprocket all at once one after another, it wouldn’t have been enough to throw  the timing belt off it's track like that. I would blame it on the tensioner, count your losses,  and continue with a rebuild. Trying to legally prove that it was the brittle rubber that caused  the timing belt to jump would be an exercise in futility... considering how long it's taken to get  Mitsubishi's closed tranny policy taken care of... it just wont happen :(
 
Omar
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:14:59 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
That is exactly the train of my thought. I know what you are talking about and the covers are NOT  marked "N" anywhere that I can see. Once I have some time I am going to look for some sort of an  official 60k guide and see if its listed there. I will bet $1 that it is not. Any of you whom may  know of such a guide published by mitsu, I would really appreciate the help. #2 is where I would  fall in. I am very serious about perusing this. CHECK YOUR GASKETS!!!
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:38:01 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
Start taking pictures of everything and buy yourself some Ziploc bags to save everything. Don't  even think about tossing one piece of crusty gasket. But to give you an idea of what you're up  against, my water pump bearings and bearing caps flew all over the timing area and my timing  barely even slipped! If you have a rev limiter bypass or took out some honeycombs, be sure to  reverse such a mod since they will also try to claim that you over-revved the engine.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:35:41 -0600
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: UGH!! HELP!!
 
"Somebody" got pulled over in their red 94 VR4 for no front plate and too-loud exhaust last year.  Ticket was cancelled if somebody fixed the problems and showed them the car at the police station.  So "somebody" borrowed a friend's red 93 VR 4, transferred the license plates onto his car which  also has stock exhaust...showed up at police station.  The female cop who popped out the front  door to check that the plate was on, and exhaust sounded ok, didn't check the VIN (wasn't on  ticket anyway), and didn't know or care about the difference between a 93 or a 94. Ticket went  away  :)
 
Another friend with an 8 second "street" Camaro with LOUD exhaust got similar ticket for too-loud  exhaust; fix it and show to cops, they cancel ticket.
He showed up there to pay his ticket.   The cop there said "But all you have
to DO is FIX it and we'll cancel the ticket, you don't have to pay it then!" He said again, "You  don't understand.  I am here to PAY my TICKET.  I am NOT GOING to "fix" my exhaust, I LIKE it that  way."  They went back and forth a few times..."you can get another ticket then"..."then I'll pay  that one too..." and that was the end of it.
The man keeping us down.   Us getting back up again :)
Jack T.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:03:02 -0600
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
 
> A little side note here.  Water injection systems clean all of the carbon
> out of your engine as well.
 
Actually, they don't.  It'll probably help keep a clean combustion chamber
clean, but on my car when I tore the motor down there was still a coating of
carbon on the pistons after 20,000 miles of driving with water injection.
 
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:36:02 -0800
From: "eK2mfg" <eK2mfg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: UGH!! HELP!!
 
Roger, settle down.......I will be making something a little better in the
near future :)
Mine is in the back seat :)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:45:04 -0700
From: "Moe Prasad" <mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
When you say timing belt cover, are you talking about two cover that bolt on
the valve cover on the drive side?  Is there another cover that is not
visible?
 
I just had a new short block put in about a year and half ago, and they used
a new gasket kit.  I had a new timing belt and new waterpump put in.  I also
had my heads rebuilt. I am wondering if this gasket was included.
 
Is this an easy gasket to get to?  IMO, this is very serious and should be
replaced every 30K or so.
 
Any advice would help.  My car is down for the winter, this would be a good
time to replace the gasket, if it is simple to do.  I don't have a problem
with taking things off my car, like the valve covers or plenum.  Do I have
to take the motor mount off?
 
Rgds
Moe
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:40:01 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
 
The covers I'm talking about are the top timing cover. There is 2 of them
and they are the black covers held in by 3 bolts on top covering the cams on
the driver side. I will bet $1 yours were not changed unless they were
damaged or something.
 
Gaskets themselves are unavailable from Mitsu. You have to buy the covers
themselves at $85.
 
Tyson
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Moe Prasad
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt
skip?
 
When you say timing belt cover, are you talking about two cover that bolt on
the valve cover on the drive side?  Is there another cover that is not
visible?
 
I just had a new short block put in about a year and half ago, and they used
a new gasket kit.  I had a new timing belt and new waterpump put in.  I also
had my heads rebuilt. I am wondering if this gasket was included.
 
Is this an easy gasket to get to?  IMO, this is very serious and should be
replaced every 30K or so.
 
Any advice would help.  My car is down for the winter, this would be a good
time to replace the gasket, if it is simple to do.  I don't have a problem
with taking things off my car, like the valve covers or plenum.  Do I have
to take the motor mount off?
 
Rgds
Moe
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #994
***************************************