Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, November 10
2002 Volume 01 : Number 994
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:12:16 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Timing marks on the crank Pulley (Continuation: Prayer didn't help...)
Tyson-
1. Performance parts.
Performance parts are never cheap. I'm going to be a distributor soon
(pending return of paperwork and opening accts with the dealers) If the
timing works out -- no pun intended =) -- then I'll see if I can get you a
deal on some of this stuff.
2. Driving on bent valves?
I don't know if it's safe to drive on bent valves. Wouldn't it wear the
valve guides and cam bearings? Sure, I don't think a compression check
would hurt things much. Also, a short period of idling to verify the
engine's condition *probably* isn't enough to do much (still, I'm not
sure). But chances are that extended periods of driving will hurt
something. But wait for another post from someone else on the list or an
experienced mechanic to give you a second opinion, because that's getting
into stuff that I don't really know too well.
3. While you're waiting . . .
Regardless, A compression check would be a good start. A cylinder leakage
test would be a lit more informative IMO. If it were me, I would try to
gain an understanding of what exactly a jumped crank would do (if you
don't already). And I mean (if you have the time), you can put together
the firing order and use the technical specs of the car...clearances and
all--Jeff L.'s timing events page would be a great aid here--and find
theoretically which valves would have been bent based on how many degrees
the number of teeth equates to (360 degrees divided by # of crank teeth), and
try to compare this to the actual results of the compression & cyl.
leakage tests. That would give you reassurance as to what exactly
happened. Just a thought.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:28:18 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S:
combustion chamber cleaner
I used one can for each bank... sprayed a little lower manifold to get the
valves this time too... and I have one can left to spray in the car while
it idles. thanks for the advice. in case you're curious, I got many little
bits of black. they're everywhere. I sucked out the excess c.c. cleaner
and cranked w. disconnected coil to get rid of the rest. the little black specs
are all over the 6 spark plug holes and towels. it's great to get it all
out. I can't believe my car had so much in there. I think it's because the
previous owner lugged the engine. lots of conservative driving and shifts
at 2500 to 2750 rpm=an engine in good condition...but lotsa carbon deposits!
plus 188000 miles. that'll do it. for anyone else that happens to be doing
spark plug change or otherwise removing the plenum, I'd highly recommend
this. check the web or the archived digests (or ask me) for a detailed
procedure.
Riyan
proud owner of...
a 93 stealth tt with clean cylinder
walls!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:18:54 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Timing marks on the crank Pulley (Continuation: Prayer didn't help...)
Yes that's right. On one stroke when crank is at TDC, the cam marks won't
line up at all! Then on the next stroke they should all line up perfect or
near-perfect. You can do a two-way check.
1) Turn the crank to TDC twice. Did the cam marks line up either time? yes?
you're all good. no? =(
2) Turn the crank until the cam marks (off or on-vehicle) line up. Is the
crank lined up at TDC now? yes? you're all good. no? =(
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:30:03 -0000
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@ukf.net>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: New Zealand members question
Can any members from New Zealand help me out? I am thinking of moving to NZ
this year and am wondering about bring my car with me (UK 3000GT
RHD).
Price of fuel? Price of Tax & insurance? Value of cars in NZ?
PLEASE email me direct and off list.
- --
George Shaw MI3GTO
" Any Sufficiently Advanced Technology
is Indistinguishable from
Magic"
---Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:00:46 -0600
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
What did you spray into the engine?
Thanks,
AI Nut
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:30:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
UGH!! HELP!!
Oh please, please don't tell me there is no way around
this front
license plate law!!
Have any of you seen the front plate bracket for
the
99 front end?? It is the ugliest piece of trash you
could imagine!!
And talk about totally destroying the
beautiful round curves of the 99!!
HELP WHAT CAN I DO!!!
Anyone know how to make a motorized unit that
will
raise and lower the front plate, James Bond Style?
This is horrible,
I can't take it.... I must take this
ugly thing off... I guess I gotta risk a
ticket, I
can't stand it!!
HELP!!!
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Hi guys-
I'm sorry for the kind of off topic question here but it kinda relates.
My girlfriend is interested in a second generation eclipse GS Non-turbo.
Can
any of you guys tell me more about them in a mechanical sense. Unlike
our 3/S
beasts, they have an engine designed by Dodge. . .how do they hold
up?
please reply off list, thank you for the help
- -mike
97 SL
------------------------------
Why don't you just put the license plate on your windshield, where the
defroster vents are. at least if you get pulled over you could say that you
tried, or that you haven't received a bracket yet from the dealership, any
story might help.
good luck
gareth 92 rt/tt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:14:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
UGH!! HELP!!
Nope can't do that, the Washington State Patrol
actually dislikes that
even more then not having one,
something about increased injury risk in case
of a
motor vehicle accident....
What I really need is some sort of flip
up/down
mechanism.... come on surely somebody has done
something like
this... am I to be the first, maybe I
can become rich off this and not care
if I get a
ticket or not.... :)
I am taking that damn thing off
tomorrow, first thing.
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:53:32 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
Well, today I got the pulley off of my car to reset the timing and finally
see what it was that caused the belt to skip. What I found has made more
angry than you can imagine. The timing belt covers have a rubber seal
which over time becomes hard, especially by the heads and turns
essentially into VERY hard, brittle plastic. A piece of that fell off of my
timing belt cover when I removed it and got into the crank pulley causing
it to skip 2 teeth. I found small pieces of it right under the crank
gear... Mitsubishi does not sell the gaskets separately and I could never
justify the $85 expense. I never though that these could possibly cause a
problem like that... The cover is like a ticking time bomb. I am going to
seriously look into legal action for this as there are laws that prevent
car makers from doing these types of things.
Anyhow, a word of warning, check your gaskets, they can do the same to your
car!
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:59:05 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
combustion chamber cleaner
Your answer is in the subject ;)
He probably used Mopar Combustion
Chamber Cleaner. You can find info on the procedure on the DSM site...
www.dsm.org. I have used it before and can vouch
for the results. One note... When you first start up the car after using
it, it will smoke for a while till you drive it around the block. My
neighbors almost had a conniption when they saw the smoke screen I left behind
;)
Omar
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
Sent: Saturday, November 09,
2002 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
What did you spray into the engine?
Thanks,
AI Nut
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:16:21 -0800
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
A little side note here. Water injection systems clean all of the
carbon out of your engine as well.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:59:47 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
Tyson-
Mitsu does sell the gaskets separately. The part numbers are in CAPS and
everything. I bought a brand new set of timing cover gaskets for my 60k.
I'd recommend them to be added to our existing 60k parts list. I pried the
old gaskets off with a screwdriver and used permagasket high-tack
spray-a-gasket in order to make the new gaskets stick to the timing covers
before attaching them. You can look into legal action, but you may have
trouble justifying it since the gaskets IMO should be changed every 60K
miles. However, that's just IMO. And there is one small exception here. In
the stealth manual (prob. 3000gt manual too), any gasket that *should* be
replaced when its corresponding cover is removed is marked specifically
with an "N". So depending on whether or not this part is marked with the
"N" (non-reusable), these are the two favorable possibilities that may
exist.
1) If the "N" does exist for timing cover gaskets (meaning timing cover
gaskets MUST be replaced every time the timing cover is removed) then the
dealer should have replaced them at 60K. If they did not, go try and
collect your rebuild check.
2) The other case... if you did at the last 60K (whether or not you had a
dealer do it) and the "N" marking does not exist for those gaskets, then
you can claim that they should have marked the gasket with the "N" since
it gets brittle and causes a hazard. Your claim would be "Mitsu's failure
to mark this part as "non-reusable" is sufficient grounds for them to pay for
your new engine"
Good luck,
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:11:22 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
Omar, believe me, I tested that, it is 100% what caused my belt to skip!
The rubber gets VERY hard. As a test I broke off another piece (my motor
is fried anyway, so what the hell) and put it in the crank gear teeth.
Then I turned the crank with a wrench. Sure enough a little 1" piece of
that crap made the belt skip! Omar, this is a VERY serious hazard. Check your
gaskets man!
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Omar Malik
[mailto:ojm@iname.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:15 AM
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
Honestly, I'll say that I doubt those small pieces of brittle rubber caused
your timing belt to skip like that. If they had come under the belt like
that, they would have stuck to either the sprocket or the belt and
continued rotating through the track till they were flattened or turned to
dust. I have come across pieces of this rubber under the crank gear countless
times where the timing belt had not skipped teeth. Unless 3 or more of
these pieces all got stuck under the timing belt on the crank sprocket all
at once one after another, it wouldn’t have been enough to throw the
timing belt off it's track like that. I would blame it on the tensioner, count
your losses, and continue with a rebuild. Trying to legally prove that it
was the brittle rubber that caused the timing belt to jump would be an
exercise in futility... considering how long it's taken to get
Mitsubishi's closed tranny policy taken care of... it just wont happen :(
Omar
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:14:59 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
That is exactly the train of my thought. I know what you are talking about
and the covers are NOT marked "N" anywhere that I can see. Once I have
some time I am going to look for some sort of an official 60k guide and
see if its listed there. I will bet $1 that it is not. Any of you whom may
know of such a guide published by mitsu, I would really appreciate the help. #2
is where I would fall in. I am very serious about perusing this. CHECK
YOUR GASKETS!!!
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:38:01 -0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
Start taking pictures of everything and buy yourself some Ziploc bags to
save everything. Don't even think about tossing one piece of crusty
gasket. But to give you an idea of what you're up against, my water pump
bearings and bearing caps flew all over the timing area and my timing
barely even slipped! If you have a rev limiter bypass or took out some
honeycombs, be sure to reverse such a mod since they will also try to
claim that you over-revved the engine.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:35:41 -0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
UGH!! HELP!!
"Somebody" got pulled over in their red 94 VR4 for no front plate and
too-loud exhaust last year. Ticket was cancelled if somebody fixed the
problems and showed them the car at the police station. So "somebody"
borrowed a friend's red 93 VR 4, transferred the license plates onto his car
which also has stock exhaust...showed up at police station. The
female cop who popped out the front door to check that the plate was on,
and exhaust sounded ok, didn't check the VIN (wasn't on ticket anyway),
and didn't know or care about the difference between a 93 or a 94. Ticket
went away :)
Another friend with an 8 second "street" Camaro with LOUD exhaust got
similar ticket for too-loud exhaust; fix it and show to cops, they cancel
ticket.
He showed up there to pay his ticket. The cop there said
"But all you have
to DO is FIX it and we'll cancel the ticket, you don't have
to pay it then!" He said again, "You don't understand. I am here to
PAY my TICKET. I am NOT GOING to "fix" my exhaust, I LIKE it that
way." They went back and forth a few times..."you can get another ticket
then"..."then I'll pay that one too..." and that was the end of it.
The
man keeping us down. Us getting back up again :)
Jack T.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:03:02 -0600
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: combustion chamber cleaner
> A little side note here. Water injection systems clean all of
the carbon
> out of your engine as well.
Actually, they don't. It'll probably help keep a clean combustion
chamber
clean, but on my car when I tore the motor down there was still a
coating of
carbon on the pistons after 20,000 miles of driving with water
injection.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:36:02 -0800
From: "eK2mfg" <
eK2mfg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
UGH!! HELP!!
Roger, settle down.......I will be making something a little better in
the
near future :)
Mine is in the back seat :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:45:04 -0700
From: "Moe Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
When you say timing belt cover, are you talking about two cover that bolt
on
the valve cover on the drive side? Is there another cover that is
not
visible?
I just had a new short block put in about a year and half ago, and they
used
a new gasket kit. I had a new timing belt and new waterpump put
in. I also
had my heads rebuilt. I am wondering if this gasket was
included.
Is this an easy gasket to get to? IMO, this is very serious and
should be
replaced every 30K or so.
Any advice would help. My car is down for the winter, this would be a
good
time to replace the gasket, if it is simple to do. I don't have a
problem
with taking things off my car, like the valve covers or plenum.
Do I have
to take the motor mount off?
Rgds
Moe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:40:01 -0800
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what made my belt skip?
The covers I'm talking about are the top timing cover. There is 2 of
them
and they are the black covers held in by 3 bolts on top covering the
cams on
the driver side. I will bet $1 yours were not changed unless they
were
damaged or something.
Gaskets themselves are unavailable from Mitsu. You have to buy the
covers
themselves at $85.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Moe Prasad
Sent: Sunday, November
10, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Anyone want to take a guess at what
made my belt
skip?
When you say timing belt cover, are you talking about two cover that bolt
on
the valve cover on the drive side? Is there another cover that is
not
visible?
I just had a new short block put in about a year and half ago, and they
used
a new gasket kit. I had a new timing belt and new waterpump put
in. I also
had my heads rebuilt. I am wondering if this gasket was
included.
Is this an easy gasket to get to? IMO, this is very serious and
should be
replaced every 30K or so.
Any advice would help. My car is down for the winter, this would be a
good
time to replace the gasket, if it is simple to do. I don't have a
problem
with taking things off my car, like the valve covers or plenum.
Do I have
to take the motor mount off?
Rgds
Moe
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#994
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