Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, October 26 2002 Volume
01 : Number 982
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:58:02 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
Damien,
The stock boost gauge is worthless except to tell you if
you're in vacuum or boost. It will peg the gauge at stock boost,
which is only 9-10psi for your car. Plenty of details in the
archives. Do you have a real boost gauge? If not, then you probably
want to get one.
Since there was a manual for a boost controller in the
car and you can't find an actual boost controller in the car, then I'd
guess that there used to be one on there and when it was removed things
didn't get hooked back up properly. Your wastegate actuator hose might
be disconnected on one or both of your turbos, allowing them to produce
way too much boost for the stock fuel system. Check the vacuum hoses
behind the throttle body - if you don't know the routing (have you owned
one before?), then you can check a service manual or ask someone local to
help you check it out.
Whatever you do, avoid driving the car
hard (under boost) until you at least get a real boost gauge so you know
what's going on. If you actually are hitting fuel cut, that's not a
good thing and you'll probably break something if you keep doing it.
- --Erik
> I just bought a '93 3000GT from a dealer (so I don't know any
>
history). I sometimes hit fuel cut at about 3500rpm in 3rd
> or 4th
gear.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:07:21 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
> I just
bought a '93 3000GT from a dealer (so I don't know any history.
-
----------------snip------------------
The very *first* thing you should do is to ask the dealer for the
maintenance history of the car, since they have those records in their
computer. Among other things, you want to be *sure* that the
(required) 60,000 mile service has been done (or the *second* 60k service, if
you're at 120k miles)! If they sold you the car without the service
at the proper interval, they are required to provide it for free.
The *second* thing you should do is get the manuals, or Manual on CD -
information on where to order them is on our Team3S website. Check the FAQ Pages
Index...
I'll let the Team3S "turbo gurus" answer your Q's about fuel cut and
boost...
Good luck!
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:21:09 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Don't rely on the stock boost gauge. It is totally inaccurate.
Stock boost is nowhere near 14 psi. Not sure why you'd be hitting
fuel cut at 3500 rpm, other than an ECU problem.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Damien
[mailto:dabinch@actionsd.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:34
PM
Subject: Team3S: Fuel Cut
I just bought a '93 3000GT from a dealer (so I don't know any history). I
sometimes hit fuel cut at about 3500rpm in 3rd or 4th gear. When
this happens the stock boost gauge is pegged at 14psi. My brother
suggested that there is a manual boost controller or perhaps the fish tank valve
trick on the car. Under the hood everything appears stock (no sign
of mbc) except for a shiny metal Ypipe (and K&N open element filter,
but it hit fuel cut both before and after installation). There was
an owner's manual for a Apexi ebc in the glove box, but no sign of the actual
device. My questions are 1. Should the stock boost gauge be
indicating 14lbs (isn't stock boost 8lbs)? 2. Why might I be hitting
fuel cut as such low rpm's?
Thanks
Damien
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:28:14 -0700
From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
Are you saying that the 60k mile service is recorded by the dealer only?
What if it was done at an independent shop? Bought the car with 80k
miles (from a Mitsubishi dealer), now has 83k.
Thanks
Damien
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:29:12 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <
cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Bob, since when has a dealer HAD to sell a used car with all maintenance up
to date, or fix it for free? That's a new one on me.
And if they never serviced the car, they probably can't get you any
records. If you're lucky you might find early history as to who sold the
car new, and get some records from them. AFAIK there are no centralized
Mitsu/Dodge service record databases out there.
I'd say if you have a serious problem like this, take it back to the dealer
and get them to fix it.
Andre
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest
Sent: Friday, October
25, 2002 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut
The very *first* thing you should do is to ask the dealer for the
maintenance history of the car, since they have those records in their
computer. Among other things, you want to be *sure* that the
(required) 60,000 mile service has been done (or the *second* 60k service, if
you're at 120k miles)! If they sold you the car without the service
at the proper interval, they are required to provide it for free.
The *second* thing you should do is get the manuals, or Manual on CD -
information on where to order them is on our Team3S website. Check the FAQ Pages
Index...
I'll let the Team3S "turbo gurus" answer your Q's about fuel cut and
boost...
Good luck!
- --Forrest
------------------------------
I'm not so sure this is a "serious" problem. It is likely a leaking
or unconnected vacuum tube. If the BOV sense line is at ambient
instead of at intake manifold pressure, then the boost on the stock gauge
will peg and you could easily have cutout by 3500 RPM. If the dealer was goofy
enough to deliver the car in this condition, I'm not sure I’d trust them
to correct it.
You might get an idea whether 60k was performed 23k miles ago by the
condition of the timing belt - it should look pretty darn new.
Chuck Willis
I'd say if you have a serious problem like this, take it back to the dealer
and get them to fix it.
Andre
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:57:25 -0700
From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
> You might get an idea whether 60k was performed 23k miles ago
by
> the condition of the timing belt - it should look pretty darn
new.
Can the timing belt be CHECKED easily? I've read through some
descriptions on REPLACEMENT and it appears to be a heinous
procedure.
Damien
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:02:22 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
> Are you
saying that the 60k mile service is recorded by the dealer
> only?
What if it was done at an independent shop? Bought the car
> with
80k miles (from a Mitsubishi dealer), now has 83k.
-
------------------------------->
Naturally, they won't know about independent work on the car, but they will
have all dealer maintenance and repairs. With complex cars like
ours, very few independent shops are willing to work on our systems, and
even fewer owners buy the manuals to do major work themselves. It's
a pretty good bet that *most* service was performed at a dealer.
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:24:01 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut
Hmmm..., maybe Florida is different from the other states(?).
Florida's problems maintaining records are well-known - maybe dealers
there have the same problem that the state does with their voting
databases. ;-) Kidding aside, there is a central database which is
maintained by dealers. MOF, my Dodge dealer got me a maintenance
record on a VR4 I had been looking at. If CarFax can get them on
*any* car, they exist for our cars too. Again, Florida notwithstanding,
Lemon Laws cover used cars (in varying degrees) in many, if not most
states. If a service was required on the car when it was owned by
the dealer, the dealer must honor that service, and agrees (de facto) to
provide a vehicle in correct working condition (unless the sale was made "as
is"). Depending on where you live, work that should have been done
on a car which is sold by a dealer will be performed at their
expense. Check the Lemon Law for your state, but all states have the same
law - a dealer can NOT sell a car with a dangerous flaw.
Best,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:31:53 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fuel Cut
It's pretty tough to tell by looking at a belt what it's age might be, I
think he said he had 83K on the odometer.
Dodge or Mitsu dealers have a data base showing work performed at a
dealership --- it won't of course, tell you if it was done at an
independent shop.
Are you sure it's fuel cut --- complete, abrupt power loss for a second and
not spark blowout which is more subtle.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:52:36 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Fuel Cut
Damien-
Checking the belt is not that hard at all. All you need to do is disconnect
both crank and cam position sensors and slowly remove the two top timing
belt covers. Disconnecting the sensors will 1) allow you to remove the
covers 2) not let the engine start. When the engine cranks and doesn't
start, you can slowly crank it and examine the belt at each point. This is where
a friend may be nice to have around (not necessary though) But I don't
know how much this really tells you. For one, I've heard from a number of
places (including my auto tech instructor and a Nissan service website)
that you can't visually see timing belt wear that well, like you can with
standard non-cog belts. Even if you could, belt wear generally starts from
the inside. Taking the top covers off only lets you see the outside of the
belt. When my 60k service was already 5,000 miles overdue (a total of
65,000 miles on the belt), I popped the cover and the belt looked great!
Recently, it was 8,000 miles overdue. I popped the covers and I saw enough cuts
and slices in the belt to scare the crap out of me. ...a belt with 65,000
miles vs. a belt with 68,000 miles. And it was a huge difference. My
point? Sure, pop the covers and take a look. But remember that this method
is not gospel. e.g. If the water pump bearings fail and decide to throw shards
of metal all over the timing area, you're screwed. Depending on how
mechanically inclined you are, you may just consider doing the 60k tune-up
yourself to be safe. I am almost done with mine. And this time you can get
things that they probably wouldn't have been replaced (but should be), like the
other idler and tensioner pulleys, and the oil seals. If you search the
digests, you'll see that I'm lucky to even have a working car right now. I
almost blew my engine since I waited to long for the 60k tune-up. I know I
can be an alarmist, but this time I'm speaking from experience.
Riyan
Damien wrote:
Can the timing belt be CHECKED easily? I've read through some
descriptions on REPLACEMENT and it appears to be a heinous
procedure.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:09:21 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Unusually High Knock Sums - What's the Deal?
Jeff, based on what you are saying I am going with the thought you need new
poly engine mounts particularly due to the fact that you stated when
you
suddenly release the throttle your counts jump. Mounts would
be my first
suggestion if that doesn't work I would then recommend replacing
the stock knock sensor. Beyond those 2 items I have no friggin idea
what else could be causing your knock.
Russ F
CT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:26:57 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Engine block question
Search for 6G72 and you will find Montero and Chrysler references for
variations of the 3.0L motor.
Here's excerpts..
CHRYSLER 3.0 LITER V6 AS MANUFACTURED BY MITSUBISHI MOTOR COMPANY
I've done a fair bit of research into the variants of this motor. This
motor appeared for the Chrysler minivans in mid 1987. Was included with
the introduction of the stretched minivans that became the Grands. This
motor was built by Mitsubishi motors, and was altered to Chrysler's specs.
Our version is a Multipoint Fuel injection motor, and was later upgraded to
Sequential Multiport. It uses a "Speed/Density" computerized system to
regulate fuel, which has a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to allow the
computer to "gauge" how much fuel to add. Not too bad of a system, but not
real performance friendly. And the fuel mappings in the computer are geared
toward staying environment friendly, as opposed to performance friendly.
Check the links for power ratings by year and model...
** go see the site for more details **
This motor is very capable of handling a lot more power than it has stock.
It uses the same basic block, crankshaft (though in later years the TT
version was Nitrile treated), and bearings and rods. The main difference
was that the block was machined to accept a 4 bolt main bearing cap,
instead of the two bolt mains, and the pistons are different for the SOHC/DOHC
FWD, TT and RWD SOHC motor. The Chrysler motor seems to have yet another
piston. Clearances are basically the same though regardless of pistons or
application. The DOHC heads will bolt on the SOHC block. So this is a way
to generate more power, but then you need the whole computer and wiring harness
from the donor car. Same thing if you decided to get the TT DOHC setup as
well. Or for that matter, the whole motor.
It also appears that the trucks got a different cam profile than the sedans
did. Also, the Chrysler version has distinctly different cam timing from
the Mitsu applications. Since all the SOHC models used a distributor based
ignition system, it would seem that the hot cam to get for us (minivans)
would certainly be the one from the Mitsu Montero/trucks. I ask out loud for the
first time, but for the untold countless times in my head, why didn't
Chrysler offer some of this stuff? And why is there such a vast difference
between the Mitsu application motors and ours? Is this due to the
different computer applications?
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark and Brenda
[mailto:mebmark@cablerocket.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:11
AM
Subject: Team3S: Engine block question
Hi Gang! Well here I am at 4:00am thinking about my engine and couldn't go
back to sleep. My question is, did Dodge or Mitsubishi use the same engine
block that the 92 NA has, in any other cars or trucks? Thanks in advance.
Mark.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:25:51 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Unusually High Knock Sums - What's the Deal?
An additional thing to check ---- with that many miles on the car you
should do a compression check. It's possible there has been a lot of
carbon buildup which increases compression and thus increases the
propensity for detonation.
Jim Berry
===================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:28:42 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transmission Swap Auto to Manual...92 3kGT
I haven't seen much on this list about transmission swaps --- check the
3SI.org board. As a matter of fact I see you have a base model, that may
affect the ability to swap also.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:33:52 -0500
From: David Allison <
daedel@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Burnout
I recently got some nice high grip Bridgestone Truenzas on the front
two wheels of my NA and I am having a new experience on hard launches.
With my old POS tires I just lost traction and burned out forever before
letting off the throttle and starting to move. With these new tires I
get a bouncing kind of motion that's so hard the windshield wipers turn
on. It feels a lot like not giving the car enough gas when starting and
you get what I call the bucking bronco effect. Anyone know what this is
and what a solution is? Is this what's called engine hop? Thanks all.
- -Dave
------------------------------
Actually its called wheel hop and it is a good way to break drive-line
parts. Hence you DON'T want to make this a habit........
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Allison
[SMTP:daedel@mac.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:34
PM
>
> I recently got some nice high grip Bridgestone
Truenzas on the front
> two wheels of my NA and I am having a new
experience on hard launches.
> With my old POS tires I just lost traction
and burned out forever before
> letting off the throttle and starting to
move. With these new tires I
> get a bouncing kind of motion that's so
hard the windshield wipers turn
> on. It feels a lot like not giving the
car enough gas when starting and
> you get what I call the bucking bronco
effect. Anyone know what this is
> and what a solution is? Is this what's
called engine hop? Thanks all.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Transmission Swap Auto to Manual...92 3kGT
Cost of base model + manual tranny + all the other
parts > cost of
car you really want.
In other words, for most cars 10 years+ old - it's
cheaper to buy what
you want than to convert what
you've got.
Glenn
- --- William <
krikit@sirinet.net> wrote:
> Hey,
I was wondering if anyone could give me a price
> quote or estimate for
a
> tranny swap from the stock
> Automatic to a 5 or 6 spd Standard
transmission.
<snip>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
William
> 1992 Mitsubishi 3000GT Base
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:53:20 -0700
From: "Mosher, David" <
dmosher@ea.com>
Subject: Team3S: Question
about replacing the dash defrost vents. "Please Help".
Hello All,
I have a 92 VR4 that I have been restoring for the past year and I have
purchased some new plastic defrost vents to replace the old cracked
vents. I have been told by some that I have to totally take out the
steering wheel assembly and Dash to accomplish this little task. I thought it
would be a simple 5 to 10 minute job but now it's starting to sound like
its going to take all weekend.
Please tell me that there is an easier way.
Thank you for your time.
David.
92 White Pearl VR4 with 192,000 but she still runs
nice.
PS. Anyone live in the San Francisco Area? If so I
would like to get together at some point to have an independent opinion
about my VR4. I would like to have someone take my car for a test drive to
see if everything checks out.
Thanks Again.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:26:16 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Burnout
haha, yep.
I have a friend who races DSMs. When having a friend drive his car he
instructed:
Slip the clutch and step on the gas at the light, then make a hard shift to
second, it will come quickly. Then pretty quickly after the 2nd gear
shift, bang third and turn off the windshield wipers.
That's what you get for a 12 second FWD, I guess :)
geis
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:23:51 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Question about replacing the dash defrost vents. "Please
Help".
Sorry, no easy way... Actually, the EASY way is to remove the dash
entirely instead of trying to half-ass it... If you do that, it ends
up being ten times more work (By that, I mean taking the dash only
partially apart, and trying to get to the vents)... Drop the steering
wheel, disconnect the speedo cable at the tranny, and pull out everything
from the dash, instrument cluster, radio (to get to other parts), glove
compartment, tweeters in the dash (to get to bolts), switches in the dash
(to get to more bolts)...
It's a pain, but well worth it... When you reinstall them, don't
tighten them down ~at all~ only enough to make them look good and
not rattle... If you overtighten them, or even snug them down, they
will end up cracking like they did in the first place...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mosher, David
Sent: Friday,
October 25, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question about replacing the dash
defrost vents. "Please Help".
Hello All,
I have a 92 VR4 that I have been restoring for the past year and I have
purchased some new plastic defrost vents to replace the old cracked
vents. I have been told by some that I have to totally take out the
steering wheel assembly and Dash to accomplish this little task. I thought it
would be a simple 5 to 10 minute job but now it's starting to sound like
its going to take all weekend.
Please tell me that there is an easier way.
Thank you for your time.
David.
92 White Pearl VR4 with 192,000 but she still runs
nice.
PS. Anyone live in the San Francisco Area? If so I
would like to get together at some point to have an independent opinion
about my VR4. I would like to have someone take my car for a test drive to
see if everything checks out.
Thanks Again.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:07:59 -0400
From: Vinny <
vinman3@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 4 Questions on Issues, Intake, Exhaust and Fluid questions
Hey Guys,
I am new to the list so please have
patience with these newbie
questions:
1) I am looking to buy a 93 3000GT VR4 with 30K on the clock, mint
condition. Can you guys tell me what issues/items to look for that
are problematic for these cars in 93?
2) If I do buy it I plan to do an intake and exhaust swap. I like the
K&N intake but it doesn't seem to be getting any cold air. It
looks like it is just sucking up hot engine bay air. Is this
correct?
3) What exhaust system is the one of choice. I like Borla products
but I don't want any drone at highway speeds, nothing too loud and I don't
want a
typical coffee can sounding 4 banger crap. How does the
Borla sound? Any
wave clips on the net?
4) If I do buy this VR4 I would like to swap out all the
fluids. I've read
several archives and have seen that people like
the Red Line products. I am partial to the Royal Purple/Mobil 1
products. Is there any benefit of one over the other? What weight
engine oil do you use? Does the Manual tranny Differential and the
transfer case get the same Gear oil?
Thanks guys and sorry again for the "beating a dead horse" subject that I
am sure your guys have answered a million times.
Vinny
96 Impala SS - 50k miles
93 3000GT VR4 hopefully soon - 30k
miles
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#982
***************************************