Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, October 24 2002 Volume
01 : Number 980
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:15:27 -0700
From: "James Mutton" <
james@playstream.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
Yes it's possible but it will require someone with some solid EE experience
working on it, to get a circuit designed. The ARC-2 is at it's heart
just a hot wire sensor converting to a square-wave signal and the only
problem I have with it is pricing. Not that I haven't spent that much on
my car but I don't like paying more for something then it's worth.
It annoys me that the ARC-2 is priced like it is because they've got a
monopoly on the particular market. It's a pretty simple device. Sure
the replacement MAF is a factor, but my GM example from below incorporates these
same electronics on the sensor itself and it's only $132.00 from the local
dealer. Most hotwire sensors output a linear voltage increase as
mass air flow increases. It shouldn't be that hard to wash that
through a voltage to frequency converter and output a 5V Square wave
signal. Hell, you could create a simple circuit on a 555 timer.
:)
There isn't (to my knowledge, and I've been looking around) another sensor
that fit's our application without heavy tweaking. The one's I've
found that are close are The Lexus V8 sensors (common upgrade for older
supras) and the GM AC-Delco sensor (GM# 213-364, from the Z06 & Vortec
Trucks). The GM sensor is a hot wire sensor outputting a 5V square wave
but it's a much higher frequency the ours. This could be slowed down
using a counter or other means. The Lexus is a true Karman, using an
LED and photo transistor, unlike our pressure setup, and outputs frequency
in our range from what I know so far. I haven't been able to get a hold of
a Lexus sensor to test with yet and I've recently found information that
indicated it was a 1V square wave, which would be a problem, but I have
yet to confirm that.
James Mutton (vrrrr4)
95 Green VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: dakken
[mailto:dougusmagnus@attbi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:30
PM
Subject: Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
Are there any alternatives to the stock air sensor besides the ARC2?
I tried to contact Team Rip Engineering but they are no longer making their
MASC.
Does anyone know of any other makers of a larger freer flowing air
sensor?
Is there any way to buy off the shelf/internet parts and build one? I
noticed that TRE used a hot wire sensor and then converted it to a Karmon
Vortex signal.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:51:45 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Honeycombs Question
Damien-
These cannot be replaced (mitsu or dodge does not sell them separately.)
Gently go over them with a flat screwdriver. I forgot who it was that also
suggested using a 12 penny nail. Whatever you do, do it slowly. If you
don't have any luck, then you can try local junkyards. Worst case
scenario, find someone that's selling one with relatively low miles on it.
Hopefully you won't end up going to the dealer.
Good luck,
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Well, I had no luck going back on the dealer that mis-installed the timing
belt on my 92 vr4 during the 60K at 120K. They say it could not lead
to lower engine problems. I am having the oil tested, but don't have
a lot of hope. Anyone know of where I can pick up a used or rebuilt,
I will not go to Jasper, never had any luck with them. What are my
options for a short block or long block?
------------------------------
Got time on your hands?
Small claims court.
Cant hurt to try for the few bucks it'd cost.
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Jim Buckner wrote:
> Well, I had no luck going back on the dealer that mis-installed the
> timing belt on my 92 vr4 during the 60K at 120K. They say it
could
> not lead to lower engine problems. I am having the oil
tested, but
> don't have a lot of hope. Anyone know of where I can
pick up a used
> or rebuilt, I will not go to Jasper, never had any luck
with them.
> What are my options for a short block or long
block?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:25:10 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Honeycombs Question
> These cannot be replaced (mitsu or dodge does not
> sell them
separately.) Gently go over them with a
> flat screwdriver. I forgot
who it was that also
> suggested using a 12 penny nail.
You can also try using a hex wrench of the appropriate
size.
Stick the long end in from the back (output)
side of the sensor and it'll
form the ends of the
honeycomb back into shape.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:34:36 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: removal of ALL MAS honeycombs WITHOUT causing damage
> Definitely don't disagree with any of your points.
> I'd like to
mention though that for that matter,
> *any* injector upgrade (with or
without honeycombs)
> will involve some "tweaking by feel".
Sure, but what I'm talking about is the difference
between
recalibrating a signal from a calibrated device
versus recalibrating a
signal from a non-calibrated
device that is known to drop airflow counts
essentially
at random as airflow increases. The DSM guys know all
about this, and most people give up on the removed
honeycombs idea
(especially after nuking a motor in
extreme cases).
> I did read somewhere that some guy (LOL)... no but
> seriously.
I think it's someone on 3si that took
> their MAS to a wind tunnel and
found that 12% of the
> air is restricted through the honeycombs. So we
can
> take that number at face value.
Yeah, I've heard a lot of "things" on 3si.org.
I suppose you could put a MAF on a flow bench and pull
air through it
and measure the CFM with and without
honeycombs installed. Not sure
how you'd be able to
get anywhere near a real number with a "wind tunnel"
though.
Just be careful with experimenting with that setup.
Your motor's
health is at stake anytime you fiddle with
the air/fuel mixture. Its a
lot easier to break
pistons than you might think. (Been there).
In my opinion, a minor top-end flow increase of the MAF
isn't worth the
hassles that are induced. If you are
serious about eliminating MAF
restriction, it is better
to do it right and get a VPC or an EMS set up for
speed- density airflow measurement.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:46:22 -0500
From: Shane Thoms <
sthoms@thomsclan.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
I would still love to see a matched MAF & Fuel Injector combo sold. Say
+20% or +40%.... damn
F@rd people have them,
jeesh.
Shane
>Are there any alternatives to the stock air sensor besides the
ARC2?
>
>I tried to contact Team Rip Engineering but they are no
longer making
>their MASC.
>
>Does anyone know of any other
makers of a larger freer flowing air
>sensor?
>
>Is there any
way to buy off the shelf/internet parts and build one? I
>noticed
that TRE used a hot wire sensor and then converted it to a
>Karmon Vortex
signal.
>
>
>Doug
>92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:07:59 -0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
> Or you buy a GM MAP sensor ($50) and a GM IAT Sensor ($50), attach
> them appropriately to your plenum, and put yourself the biggest,
> fattest air filter on there with no MAS whatsoever. You could
even
> just have a 3" pipe from each turbo with dual filters if you
like.
>
> Granted you need the AEM EMS or some other engine
management system to
> do this, but it is an alternative and would
virtually eliminate the
> restrictions associated with measuring
airflow.
I like this idea. No need to pull all of your air through a single
sensor so you could route your intake any way you want. You could
even just strap an air filter directly to each turbo.
I have a GM car that I can check the output from the sensors on. The
big question then would be, how to convert the signal from the GM sensors
to a karman vortex signal. Does a GM car figure out the amount of
air coming in by computing manifold pressure at current RPM, air temp and
barometric pressure and then check a table for a number value?
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:17:58 -0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NEED AN ENGINE
> Got time on your hands?
>
> Small claims
court.
>
> Cant hurt to try for the few bucks it'd cost.
I would do this too. The court costs would be about $100 or
less. If you win, then the dealer buys you a new $3100 engine and
pay for the install.
Sometimes they will settle with you after they get the summons and know
that you mean business.
Takes lots of pictures of the misaligned timing marks and the damage to
your engine. Bring your receipts, manuals and if you can, a
professional mechanic to testify on your behalf. You might be able
to get the same mechanic that you want to install the engine to testify for
you.
Depending on the case load, you may be looking at from a couple of week to
wait for a hearing to six months. You can have your new engine
installed while you are waiting for your court date.
You may even to entitled to free legal advice through your work or your
bank. Ask around.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:41:31 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
I think this is a good idea also, it would be great to get a low cost HIGH
performance mod for our cars. If anyone needs help I know a lot of
micro-processor guys, anyone want to take the blunt of this initiative?
Basically all we need to do is find out what kind of signal the GM unit puts
out and convert that into something the 3S can use correct?
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member #4909
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#980
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