Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, October 23 2002 Volume
01 : Number 979
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:13:38 -0400
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
okay to start car only with timing belt?
Without the accessory belts you'll have no power steering and worse yet no
alternator. Chances are you'll kill your battery before you get to the car
port. Besides - you'll have to do more than half the re-assembly to get it
to start. You'll need to put all the IC lines back, the engine mount, the
ac line (so you can close the hood), etc.
Your car, but I wouldn't risk it...
Alex
'95 VR4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
Sent: Tuesday,
October 22, 2002 4:19 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: okay to start car
only with timing belt?
as I am slowly pulling out of my 60k service and moving on to my mods list,
I have been informed that it's going to rain around here this weekend
(prob starting friday). I definitely want my baby back in the carport so I
can do mods over the weekend. I was planning on just putting on the timing
belt (no covers or accessory belts) and driving around the corner to my carport.
Is this okay? Or will I get a check engine light? I can always push it,
but it's kind of a long push.
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:22:42 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
If you're just talking about not having the accessory belts and timing belt
covers on, then that's no big deal. As long as your battery is good
and has a decent charge, then she should start right up and probably run
for an hour or two, depending on how many accessories you have turned on
and whether she's idling or actually driving. Steering will not be
fun. Been there, done that.
Alex is right, though, unless you need to take the covers or accessory
belts off to do your mods, it's a much better idea to just do it right the
first time so you don't have to worry about it.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:19:39 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
Me neither. Plus, there is a slight chance that the timing belt can
walk off the cam gears without the cover in place.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Alex Pedenko
[mailto:alex@kolosy.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:14 AM
To:
riyan@hotpop.com; 'Team3S'
Subject: RE:
Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
Without the accessory belts you'll have no power steering and worse yet
no alternator. Chances are you'll kill your battery before you get to the
car port. Besides - you'll have to do more than half the re-assembly to
get it to start. You'll need to put all the IC lines back, the engine
mount, the ac line (so you can close the hood), etc.
Your car, but I wouldn't risk it...
Alex
'95 VR4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
Sent: Tuesday,
October 22, 2002 4:19 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: okay to start car
only with timing belt?
as I am slowly pulling out of my 60k service and moving on to my mods list,
I have been informed that it's going to rain around here this weekend
(prob starting friday). I definitely want my baby back in the carport so I
can do mods over the weekend. I was planning on just putting on the timing
belt (no covers or accessory belts) and driving around the corner to my carport.
Is this okay? Or will I get a check engine light? I can always push it,
but it's kind of a long push.
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:32:41 -0500
From: fred martinez <
frekiy@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S:
measurements
Hello all,
I am currently away from my beloved Stealth and I need to know the
width of the hatch lid and the distance of the mounting points on the
factory wing. I have found someone that is bored and wants to make a
custom wing, but I dont have any way to know what width to make it.
If
anyone can please help with this I'd be greatly appreciative.
Thanks
Fred
93' Stealth RT
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:52:59 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
okay to start car only with timing belt?
Thanks for all the help guys. The distance that I'm driving is about 3 to 5
minutes worth of running time. It's literally around the corner (tops).
Pushing it is just kinda hard because of the inclines and speed bumps
along the way. I managed to beat the crap out of the center bolt of the
tensioner when installing the timing belt the first time (long story). But the
new bolt should be ready for pickup in about 45 min. I'm gonna go ahead
and give this sucker a shot. As soon as I get her inside, I'll be able to
do my injectors, fp hotwire, intake, fuel line, fuel rail, egr block off,
MBC, rear pre-cat gutting, A-pillar, A/F gauge, boost gauge, fuel pressure
gauge, and a fixed computer w.LCD screen setup which I'll use for
datalogging in the future (but for now will use for movies and mp3s).
Damn. Did I spend lotsa money on my car, or what? Time to get a few new
customers and SELL like there's no tomorrow.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
with a big smile on its front bumper
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:58:10 +0000
From:
nouveau3@attbi.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
okay to start car only with timing belt?
The other thing to keep in mind is this. Even though it
took a long
time to get to where you are now, once
you've got the timing belt on your
almost finished
anyway. It really shouldn't take any more than a couple
of hours to button up the rest (less if your lucky
enough to have air
tools.)
In my opinion it would be better to spend the extra time
than
even risk the possibilities.
> If you're just talking about not having the accessory belts and timing
> belt covers on, then that's no big deal. As long as your battery
is
> good and has a decent charge, then she should start right up and
> probably run for an hour or two, depending on how many accessories you
> have turned on and whether she's idling or actually driving.
Steering
> will not be fun. Been there, done that.
>
>
Alex is right, though, unless you need to take the covers or accessory
>
belts off to do your mods, it's a much better idea to just do it right
>
the first time so you don't have to worry about it.
>
>
--Erik
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:07:23 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
> Me neither. Plus, there is a slight chance that the
>
timing belt can walk off the cam gears without the
> cover in place.
Not at all likely with the water pump pulley keeping it
in place.
No rubbing marks on my timing belt cover, so
I doubt it holds the belt in
place at all.
> Without the accessory belts you'll have no power
> steering and
worse yet no alternator. Chances are
> you'll kill your battery before you
get to
> the car port.
I drove 30 miles on one of the little sealed batteries
with a broken
alternator belt. Just driving around the
corner is nowhere near enough
to drain the battery.
> You'll need to put all the IC lines back, the engine
> mount,
the ac line (so you can close the hood), etc.
You can leave the IC lines disconnected if you
disconnect the wiring
harness from the MAF. It'll run
in limp-home mode, but it should be
enough to just put
it in the garage. Not the best thing to do to your
car, but in a pinch it should get it moved a short
distance.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:11:05 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
It's all a question of how much risk you want to take. I agree it's
not likely, but it's not impossible either. And when I weigh the
cost of 10 minutes of my time against the cost of an engine rebuild, I say
it's too risky.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
mjannusch@attbi.com
[mailto:mjannusch@attbi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:07 PM
To:
Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: okay to start car only with timing belt?
> Me neither. Plus, there is a slight chance that the
>
timing belt can walk off the cam gears without the
> cover in place.
Not at all likely with the water pump pulley keeping it
in place.
No rubbing marks on my timing belt cover, so
I doubt it holds the belt in
place at all.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:28:10 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: removal of ALL MAS honeycombs WITHOUT causing damage
> after removal of the honeycomb the MAS cannot accurately measure ANY
> air flowing through, the MAS uses a karman vortex air flow system,
> basically when the air flows through the honeycomb it spins off into
> small vortices, and the sensor measures those (speed and frequency) to
> determine how much air is flowing through the device.
Actually there's a plastic triangular-shaped post that goes through the
middle of the sensor passage which creates the vortexes, so it'll still
measure airflow - just not at all accurately. At high flow rates I'd
imagine the counts get really* hosed up.
> I see lots of people (especially on 3si) running without the
screen.
That's
> what motivated me to give it a shot. The failures
seemed to be those
> who didn't have a way to tweak the system afterward.
Anyway, that's
> why it's reversible, right?
Let's recap:
Start with a pretty accurate, calibrated device which measures
airflow.
Remove some of the parts that make it calibrated and accurate. Since
the process of removing the honeycombs causes it to be inaccurate enough
to have to tweak it with a fuel controller - we know this is wreaking
havoc with the sensor's calibration curve.
Attempt to tweak it by feel and by watching the somewhat inaccurate stock
O2 sensors.
Good luck with that. I'd bet money that your end result will be worse
than where you started.
I doubt that the honeycombs are anywhere near as restrictive as some people
seem to think, assuming they weren't damaged when installing an air
filter.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:30:10 -0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Team3S: MAF Sensor Alternatives?
Are there any alternatives to the stock air sensor besides the ARC2?
I tried to contact Team Rip Engineering but they are no longer making their
MASC.
Does anyone know of any other makers of a larger freer flowing air
sensor?
Is there any way to buy off the shelf/internet parts and build one? I
noticed that TRE used a hot wire sensor and then converted it to a Karmon
Vortex signal.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:59:32 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
removal of ALL MAS honeycombs WITHOUT causing damage
Matt/team3s-
Definitely don't disagree with any of your points. I'd like to mention
though that for that matter, *any* injector upgrade (with or
without
honeycombs) will involve some "tweaking by feel". I did read
somewhere that some guy (LOL)... no but seriously. I think it's someone on
3si that took their MAS to a wind tunnel and found that 12% of the air is
restricted through the honeycombs. So we can take that number at face value.
I'll give the MAS a try with all HC's out, and another try with leaving
the main sensor HC in. The beauty of it is if nothing seems to help, I'll
put it all back the way it was...before I even wrote this post. To each
his own.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:23:43 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: removal of ALL MAS honeycombs WITHOUT causing damage
Riyan, what you are suggesting is what the DSM guys/gals have been doing
for a while..... Only catch they learned the hard way that you want
to leave the honeycomb for the middle sensor IN PLACE. Removing it
wreaks havoc with the sensor and causes it to miss airflow counts
etc......
I personally would not ever start messing with the stock
maf it is a restriction for anything bigger that DR-500's
IMHO.
Russ F
CT
- -----Original Message-----
From: Riyan Mynuddin
[mailto:riyan@hotpop.com]
Sent: Wed 10/23/2002 2:59 AM
Subject: RE:
Team3S: removal of ALL MAS honeycombs WITHOUT causing damage
Matt/team3s-
Definitely don't disagree with any of your points. I'd like to mention
though that for that matter, *any* injector upgrade (with or without
honeycombs) will involve some "tweaking by feel". I did read somewhere that
some guy (LOL)... no but seriously. I think it's someone on 3si that took
their MAS to a wind tunnel and found that 12% of the air is restricted
through the honeycombs. So we can take that number at face value. I'll give
the MAS a try with all HC's out, and another try with leaving the main
sensor HC in. The beauty of it is if nothing seems to help, I'll put it all
back the way it was...before I even wrote this post. To each his own.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:46:44 -0700
From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Honeycombs Question
During installation of new air filter, I damaged some of the honeycombs.
Can these be replaced? Should I try to straighten them? TIA
Damien
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#979
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