Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Thursday, October 17 2002  Volume 01 : Number 974
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:56:33 -0700
From: Greg Gonzales <stealth@fitnessolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
I have not replaced the timing belt yet, due to lack of funds. :-(  .
But I will get it done here within the next two weeks. I have not
replaced the fuel filter as well.
I have replaced the spark plugs, wires, and O2 sensors.
 
The car is not a daily driver. I was thinking it was the timing belt,
maybe skipped a tooth? or if it stretched ?  It doesn't backfire bad  ie
10 times on deceleration, 1 or 2 times.
 
Besides the timing belt, could the fuel filter cause this?
 
Thank you for your help
 
Greg Gonzales
92 RT TT
 
Starkey, Jr., Joseph wrote:
 
>Have you checked your engine timing?  I see your car is a 92.  Did you
>change the timing belt and tensioner?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:59:18 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
 
Well, for the record, my S-AFC is reporting about 2200hz at WOT @ 16.2psi.
 
Francis Morice
Retek Internal Helpdesk
612-587-2510
fm@retek.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:jlucius@stealth316.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
 
>The max count is something over 2000.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:24:22 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
No, the fuel filter should not cause backfiring.  I'd be really
concerned about the timing belt if I were you, since the engine is an
interference engine.  If you have another car to drive, I'd park the
Stealth until I checked the belt.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: car covers
 
Anyone have a brand that they are particularly pleased
with?  This is for inside the garage.
 
Thanks much
 
Glenn
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
 
*chuckle*
 
Now THATS how ya do it.  :)
 
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:
 
> At 05:57 PM 10/15/02 -0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
> >Must be nice to be unemployed or well off.
>
> Neither. Sorta self employed. I work at home as a telecommuter.
>
> Rich
>
> >
> >These days..its difficult to take weekdays off politically..and still have
> >family vacation time.
 
***
NEW Supra Product!
6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available for MK3 supras NOW!
Check out http://www.speedtoys.com/bushings.html for details.
This is the only planned purchase -ever- of these, until October 5th.
***
 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:17:59 -0400
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
Okay, now I'm starting to get worried. What does the timing belt have to
do with backfiring? I changed my own a few k miles ago, so I could have
messed it up. Is back firing just a loud pop, or several quieter ones?
 
Thanks,
 
Alex.
 
'95 Vr4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:22:23 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
The wrong valve timing can cause a cylinder to fire when an exhaust
valve(s) is (are) open, thus causing backfiring out the exhaust, or to
fire before an intake valve(s) close(s), thus causing backfiring through
the intake.  Backfiring could be either a loud pop or several quieter
ones.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:24:31 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
Or it could be his plugs are gapped down too much.  Happened to me when I had them gapped down to  .032.   When I gapped them back to .034, backfiring went away...
 
Francis
'96 RT/TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:22:33 -0400
From: Rod2414738@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
I recently purchased a '93 Stealth TT with 84k on it, and even more recently subscribed to this  list.  Since there was no evidence that the 60k had been done, I took it to the local Dodge dealer  (I know, mistake #1) to have the timing belt, drive belts, and water pump replaced.
 
After hearing it was done, I picked it up and didn't even make it a mile from the shop before it  lost all power and had black exhaust billowing from the rear.  At the time I was going about 45 in  fourth gear and floored it was losing speed.  I let off the gas to turn off the road and the car  died as soon as I took my foot off the accelerator.  I immediately thought the belt slipped a  couple of teeth and called the dealer back.  They sent a flatbed for me.  I got the car started,  but floored in first it would only go about 5mph sputtering the entire time.  I needed to get off  the road though since I was in the turn lane at rush hour and I knew the flatbed couldn't get to  me where I was at. 
 
Since I could get the car started, I'm guessing that even if the belt slipped, it didn't damage  the engine.  I didn't hear any "bad" sounds, but it seemed like it was missing something fierce.   BTW, the car ran fine up to the point it lost power.  Is it likely that there is just an air  bubble in the cooling system or a sensor unplugged?  The thinking here is that when I picked the  car up the computer would be in open loop and ignoring the sensors.  When it got warm enough to go  into closed loop, an air bubble/unplugged sensor may have caused the computer to think the engine  was -40 degrees or so and therefore alter the timing and enrich the A/F ratio (explaining the  black smoke and missing). 
 
Has any one had similar experiences or have ideas for me?  I haven't heard back from the dealer  yet, but fear they may try to claim the event is unrelated to the repair.
 
- -Rod Schmidt
'93 Black Stealth TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:31:44 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
How did it run before you took it in for the work?  I doubt it's a
sensor problem.  I hate to say it, but I think the dealer screwed up the
belt job.  More specifically, I think the dealer rushed the
auto-tensioner steps, and your belt jumped.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:44:12 -0700
From: "James Mutton" <james@playstream.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
Strange question but did you bother to pop the hood and look.  I've
blown various intake/boost hoses apart from not tightening them after an
underhood job.  Same symptoms.
 
- -James Mutton
95 VR-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:50:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
Wow, sorry to hear about your troubles with 60k service.
 
I watched some team3s members perform a 60k service about a year ago.
There is ample room for an incompetent tech to foul things up badly.  But
then I also got the impression that skipping one tooth will
instantaneously turn your entire engine into scrap metal.  So the fact
that your car even runs at all makes me suspect they screwed something
else up, like something in the air intake.
 
At one point a while back, I had the air intake Y-pipe pop off while
driving, and my car started limping along sort of as you describe.  Double
check all air intake fittings all along the system from the filter box to
the intake plenum.  Please let us know how things turn out.
 
Dave
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:55:24 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
You have a good point about checking the air intake.  Blowing an intake
hose can cause these symptoms.  I suppose the tech probably had to take
the air intake hose off that comes off of the driver's side intercooler.
I can't remember if I had to do that when I changed my belt or not.  But
I'm beginning to think I did, and that will certainly cause the problem
described.
 
However, jumping just one or two teeth is not enough to damage the
engine.  In reality, I think you have room for about 20 degrees of error
before you begin bending valves.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:55:24 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
For those that don't realize it, the spark plug *always* fires when the
exhaust valve is open (exhaust stroke). This is a consequence of our wasted-
spark ignition system (3 coils and 6 cylinders - each plug fires every RPM).
Normally, there is no combustible gas in the exhaust mixture. Even unburnt
fuel should not really be a problem unless there is a source of fresh air near
the exhaust manifold (a leak) or maybe from the intake valve (overlap).
 
More info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-timing.htm
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelinjection.htm
 
Another cause of backfire can be a throttle cable that is too tight. The
throttle plate is pulled (slammed) shut between shifts or during deceleration,
rather than eased closed by the dashpot (turbo models). Fuel still being
released by the injectors at this point can go unburnt through the cylinder
and into the exhaust.
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
The wrong valve timing can cause a cylinder to fire when an exhaust
valve(s) is (are) open, thus causing backfiring out the exhaust, or to
fire before an intake valve(s) close(s), thus causing backfiring through
the intake.  Backfiring could be either a loud pop or several quieter
ones.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:57:50 -0500
From: "Brandon Wieschhaus" <bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Powersteering problems...
 
Hey everyone. I bought a '94 Stealth base a few weeks ago, and am quite
anxious to get things rolling on the customization and stuff, but I have
some minor problems to deal with first. Powersteering for example. How do
you diagnose powersteering problems, and track them back to the faulty piece
of equipment? My symptoms are: steering makes odd groaning noise when
turning at low speed, or while stopped, reservoir continually runs dry,
everytime I add fluid to it, it seems to get ejected out the top, from under
the cap. Is there a way to know for sure if it's a reservoir problem? Or
maybe the pump has gone out? Or maybe it's the belt? How do I find out
EXACTLY what I need to replace, to reduce wasted money? Any help would be
great, thanks!
    -Brandon
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:05:19 -0500
From: "Brandon Wieschhaus" <bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Transmission problems...
 
Hi, me again. I know that the transmission probably should've been the first
thing I worried about before deciding to buy the Stealth, but hey, it was an
awesome deal, couldn't pass it up! I've read a lot about the synchros and
throw-out-bearings going out a lot in the VR4/TT's, but what about the base
models? I seem to have the same symptoms as what the VR4 guys are talking
about, but not sure if the problems apply to me, or even if their solutions
(which seem to be limited) apply to me. I know that it's a little hard
getting into 1st a lot of the time, and I do seem to hear a slight grinding
going into 3rd (possibly driver error of course), and I've popped out of
reverse a few times too... I could live w/ the problems of SLIGHT grinding
into 3rd, and maybe popping out of reverse every now and then, but I really
need to get my 1st gear problems taken care of. Again, I'm at the question
of knowing how to diagnose problems. Is it only the sychros that are the
real worry in base models, and if so, is that pretty much the symptoms of
bad synchros? And if so.... What are the recommendations of fixing it? Keep
in mind, I'm now a VERY broke college student... Thanks again!
    -Brandon
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:18:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
The team3s instructions have you
removing/disconnecting all the hose/pipe for the rear
turbo + the y-pipe.  So, might as well check all the
connections along the intake path.
 
Also start taking notes.  If something is F'ed up, you
may end up talking to a district manager or going to
court.  start the paper trail now.
 
Glenn
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:32:09 +0000
From: nouveau3@attbi.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
I just did the 60K (actually 120K for me) two weekends
ago and the intercooler piping from the driverside
intercooler does indeed need to be removed. Check the
clamps and connections at the intercooler (these can be
a pain to get back on correctly) and also the connection
of the piping at the turbo, I believe that there is a
rubber O-ring that could possibly have cracked or gotten
lost when the piping was removed.
My timing was off on the front side intake by one tooth,
I didn't notice much difference in the way that it ran
after the 60K and the correction. Obviously 1-2 teeth
doesn't do any permanent damage.
 
> You have a good point about checking the air intake.  Blowing an intake
> hose can cause these symptoms.  I suppose the tech probably had to take
> the air intake hose off that comes off of the driver's side intercooler.
> I can't remember if I had to do that when I changed my belt or not.  But
> I'm beginning to think I did, and that will certainly cause the problem
> described.
>
> However, jumping just one or two teeth is not enough to damage the
> engine.  In reality, I think you have room for about 20 degrees of error
> before you begin bending valves.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:36:41 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
All this is starting to come back to me now!  It's been about 3 years or
so since I did my belt job.  This e-mail brings up another good
point--the O-ring on the pipe that enters the rear turbo.  The specs
call for this O-ring to be replaced once it's been removed.  In other
words, it is not reusable by manufacturer specifications.  It also needs
to be coated with high-temp grease.  (I think it calls for synthetic,
silicone grease like what's used on brake calipers).  Therefore, make
sure the dealer replaced this O-ring and properly lubed it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:38:17 +0100
From: Watson David M AB 16 ACCS/DOM <David.Watson@robins.af.mil>
Subject: Team3S: Broken seal on slave cylinder
 
Team...
I own a 96 Base Stealth, i've had it for about 5 months and had no problems
with it until the other day.  I was headed to the end of my street and the
clutch pedal slipped straight to the floor.  I managed to pull it out with
my foot and it seemed fine after that.  I drove it about 4 miles to a gas
station to fill up.  When I went to start it up, it slipped again and stayed
there.  I pulled it out a few times and tried, but there was no pressure on
the pedal at all.  I'm not to familiar with this car yet, and thought it
might be the return spring.  After towing it back to a friends house who had
blocks, we found a leak coming from the seal on the slave cylinder.  We
managed to get it out pretty easily.  I noticed in the archives that back in
2000 a member had the same problem, and you guys mentioned he should replace
not just the slave, but also the master cylinder.  Why is that?  Has there
been anyone else with experience with this problem?  Can I just buy the
$10.00 rebuild kit and replace just the seal, or should I be safe and buy
the whole slave cylinder?  Please help!
 
David Watson
david.watson@robins.af.mil
96 Green Stealth, No mods....yet!
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: glenn vrfour [mailto:vr4glenn@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
The team3s instructions have you
removing/disconnecting all the hose/pipe for the rear
turbo + the y-pipe.  So, might as well check all the
connections along the intake path.
 
Also start taking notes.  If something is F'ed up, you
may end up talking to a district manager or going to
court.  start the paper trail now.
 
Glenn
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:43:46 -0700
From: Greg Gonzales <stealth@fitnessolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
Hmm. I did gap mine to .032 when I put new ones in... I have a Blitz
DSBC that I was going to put in after I had the 60k service done...
Recommendations??? besides 60k service? Should the backfiring go away
once the DSBC is installed?
Greg Gonzales
92 RT TT
 
Morice, Francis wrote:
 
>Or it could be his plugs are gapped down too much.  Happened to me when I had them gapped down to  .032.   When I gapped them back to .034, backfiring went away...
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:44:53 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Broken seal on slave cylinder
 
The slave is cheap.  Replace it.  I think you're looking at around
$30-40.  I just replaced mine not too long ago.  If you have an Advance
Auto around you, get the slave from them--its the OEM part.  I would not
mess with the master until it starts giving you problems.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:46:08 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
Greg,
 
I would gap them back to .034 and see if that makes a difference.  It did for me.  .034 should be  fine if you are boosting up 15 psi.  DSBC will do nothing for the backfiring.
 
Francis
'96 RT/TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:45:05 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
Sounds like the Y pipe came off. It would account for all the symptoms you mentioned. This is not  serious, other than it tends to mess up the gasket, and it never seals properly again. If that's  what they say happened, tell them you are concerned about damage to the gasket. They will shuck  and jive, and say, "oh, no problem there."
 
Nevertheless, make sure they make a note of it in the record, then go out and drive it hard, to  see if you can make it come off again. If so, demand they replace the gasket, which will require a  new Y-pipe. It's THEIR fault the Y-pipe is coming off, so it's THEIR fault that the gasket is  torn, so THEY should pay for the new y-pipe parts and labor.
 
Good luck. They will of course have some excuse about why it's not their fault.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
>I took it to the local Dodge dealer (I know, mistake #1) to have the timing belt, drive belts,  and water pump replaced. After hearing it was done, I picked it up and didn't even make it a mile  from the shop before it lost all power and had black exhaust billowing from the rear. 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:47:34 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rear turbo o-ring
 
On a similar note - I have a set of HKS hard pipes I want to install but
they are larger than stock and the pipe to the rear turbo does not fit
down inside the turbo outlet like stock but is about the same size as
the turbo outlet.  Is there a problem getting one of those silicone
connector (cuffs) and putting a hose clamp on each side of it?
 
These hard pipes are also bigger diameter than the stock exit of the
intercooler so the intercooler gets to be replaced as well (side mount
HKS intercoolers).  But if someone can confirm or deny if a silicone
connector is okay from the rear turbo outlet to the rear turbo hard pipe
inlet then all I need is to buy one and test for leaks.
 
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Starkey, Jr., Joseph
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 14:37
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
This e-mail brings up another good point--the O-ring on the pipe that
enters the rear turbo.  The specs call for this O-ring to be replaced
once it's been removed.  In other words, it is not reusable by
manufacturer specifications.  It also needs to be coated with high-temp
grease.  (I think it calls for synthetic, silicone grease like what's
used on brake calipers).  Therefore, make sure the dealer replaced this
O-ring and properly lubed it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:52:07 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear turbo o-ring
 
Darren, a silicone coupler like that will work fine.   However due to where
you are mounting it (directly to the turbo) I would get a silicone hump
connector for both IC pipe inlets from the turbos.
 
My .02
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
speaking of which, when I asked my local dodge parts dept. for a new
gasket all they were able to quote me was a whole new pipe plus gasket.  I
guess the gasket is not sold separately, at least not by dodge.
 
My y-pipe gasket is partially chewed up.  But it's on there good now.
 
I am interested in sheet metal forming and in TIG welding, and I think a
new metal Y-pipe would be a cool sheet metal/TIG project!  I just need a
source for gaskets.
 
Dave
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:37:50 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
Dave, why not just fab up one like the DN Performance one but make sure the
pressure feed nipple DOES NOT interfere with the windshield washer tank, and
then just get a bulk purchase of the turbonetics 2.75" hump connectors...
 
Again simply food for thought
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:52:05 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
 
I'd have to agree, use the SAFC or similar.  The only other way to
'fool' the system, would be a 50% bypass tube.  Ie, research the flow vs
area for tubing. Then determine the stock cross section, 2.75 inch I
think, then run an additional bypass of 1.x inch so your MAS reports
only 2/3 of the airflow. That should make it just about right for 550s.
The secondary intake can be taken off the airbox, or piped in from a
totally separate filtered air source.
 
>From discussions the last few days, WOT still uses the MAS signal as a
base so should be ok.
 
Kurt
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody [mailto:overclck@satx.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 4:17 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
 
For all intents and purposes, a N/A MAS is the exact same thing as a TT
MAS, although the N/A MAS is not able to compensate for as much air...
So...What will happen is you will quickly max out the N/A's flow capability,
and run into some serious trouble when that happens, lost data counts,
etc.... It's a common problem among modified 1G DSM's, and also the
reason they upgrade to the 2G MAS...
 
It's just not gonna work...  Max airflow hz is right at 1660 (or is it
1606) for both the TT and the N/A MAS..  Stock N/A's pull enough air
for 1300 HZ worth of flow (as read in cycles per minute from the MAS
to the ECU)...if 1300 hz is we'll say 230 crank hp, then on a N/A MAS,
then max airflow on the N/A MAS should only be able to support roughly
300 HP...
 
Just buy a S-AFC and be done with it... they are easy to set up, and
pretty darn fool proof if you even have a clue what you are doing...
Plus, they aren't even that expensive...
 
- -Cody
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:24:08 -0400
From: "anscray" <anscray@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Broken seal on slave cylinder
 
David,
 
  I had the same problem on my 94 SL about 3 years ago b4 I bought my VR4..
I actually went about 3 months in b/n the first time I had to pull my clutch
back out manually and when the slave and master cylinder actually failed..
Unfortunately this happened to me at 70mph on the freeway and scared the
crap out of me..  I would go ahead and replace the cylinder all together for
safety sake, but if its a monetary issue then just get it working for now
and wait and see if you have more problems.. Just remember when it goes, it
goes and you will be stuck..
 
Scott
94 VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:03:16 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Powersteering problems...
 
Hi Brandon,
 
Sounds like the system is building too much pressure and forcing fluid out
the cap...  if so, look for a crimped hose or bent hard line in the power
steering system (along with checking the cap and the reservoir itself.  Fill
the reservoir, start the car, and watch for fluid (stand outside the car).
If everything looks ok, then have a friend turn the steering wheel back and
forth while you watch for fluid.  If it's leaking there, you should see it.
 

Oh, and while you do this, wear old clothes and goggles.  I once had a
crimped line that caused pressure build-up in the system.  After about 5
seconds, one of the rubber hoses under the reservoir popped off and a
*stream* of power steering fluid shot out of my engine bay about 15ft,
soaking my garage ceiling, floor, workbench, and everything else.
Fortunately, I was in my driver's seat and didn't get hit.  What a mess...
but I digress :-)
 
Whatever you do, don't run it dry or you may damage the pump.  If you can't
fix it immediately and must drive the car, then taking the power steering
pump accessory belt off would be a band-aid to keep the pump from getting
trashed.   
 
- --Erik
 
> My symptoms are: steering makes odd groaning noise when
> turning at low speed, or while stopped, reservoir continually
> runs dry, everytime I add fluid to it, it seems to get
> ejected out the top, from under the cap.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:14:55 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transmission problems...
 
The FWD transaxles are completely rebuildable by any competent dealer or
transmission shop.  Been there, done that, got new synchros and gears (under
warranty).  If your 3rd gear grinding gets worse, you either have to baby
that gear or get your tranny rebuilt.  If the popping out of reverse gets
more frequent or it starts popping out of 5th, check the end-nut on the
passenger's side - it may be loose.  Check the archives for details.
 
Almost all FWD and AWD 3/S transmissions occasionally have issues getting
into 1st gear from a stop.  Every one of them (at least a dozen by now) -
new, old, rebuilt, FWD, AWD, etc. - that I have driven has exhibited this
"feature" at one time or another.  I've heard a number of explanations as to
the "why", and they're well-documented in the archives.  The short of it is
"that's normal(TM)."  There are several things you can do to coax it into
1st when it's stubborn. 
 
1)  Return the shifter to neutral and try again.
2)  With the clutch still on the floor, shift
    to another gear first before engaging 1st.
    I usually shift about halfway into 4th
    and then it glides into 1st easily.
3)  Put the shifter in neutral, let out the clutch,
    push the clutch in, and then shift into 1st.
4)  Take your foot off the brake if you're on a slope
    and allow the car to roll slightly forward or
    backward as you push the shifter into 1st.
 
Almost always, one of the above 4 things will work.  If they don't, try 3/4
repeatedly and it should.  That's always worked for me.
 
- --Erik
 
> I could live w/ the problems of SLIGHT grinding
> into 3rd, and maybe popping out of reverse every now and
> then, but I really need to get my 1st gear problems
> taken care of.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:31:41 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
I don't see how spark plug gap makes any difference concerning backfire.
The "wasted-spark" plug (exhaust stroke) *must* fire to complete the
electrical circuit so that the important plug (intake stroke) fires. So if the
plug is always firing anyway, why would the gap make a difference? Bigger gaps
just make stronger sparks. Seems to me that would encourage backfire if
anything, assuming sufficient fuel and air are present.
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:42:23 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
 
What about:
 
smaller gap -> physically smaller spark -> smaller initial flamefront ->
less complete combustion -> more leftover fuel in exhaust gas
 
If you have an exhaust leak, then the more fuel in the exhaust gases, the
more likely you are to have rice crispies in your exhaust...
 
or am I overlooking something?
 
- --Erik
 
> I don't see how spark plug gap makes any difference
> concerning backfire.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:20:29 -0500
From: "Brandon Wieschhaus" <bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Powersteering problems...
 
Ok, so I checked out the belts and everything, and they look good. I checked
the lines, no visible crimps to be found. It's possible that there is
something inside clogging the lines and building up pressure (pressure being
the only way I see possible to release fluid through the reservoir cap), but
I'm also concerned about the noise my pump makes while the engine is idling.
I'm no power steering expert (obviously), but I'm sure it's not supposed to
make that whining noise when the engine is idling... You can almost hear the
powersteering pump over the engine noise! Although, if I go and replace the
pump, and the pump went bad because something ELSE was screwed up, I'm back
in the same boat again... If anyone's got anymore experience, that'd surely
be appreciated, thanks!
    -Brandon
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:17:08 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
 
Great point about lowering ratio to reduce detonation.  Always thought
stoichiometric ratio was around 17:1 though?
 
Dennis -==- Philly
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Merlin916@aol.com
Date: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:03 am
Subject: Re: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
 
> Technically, the optimal A/F ratio is 14.7:1.  This is what is
> labeled as stoichiometric (forgive the spelling if its incorrect).
> At this ratio, all of the fuel and air will be used.  In our
> performance applications, my shop likes to keep the ratio around
> 12~13:1 on turbocharged cars.  Running a little rich lowers
> cylinder temps, and percent detonation. 
>
> The reason you get really rich (10:1) as you go to wide open
> throttle at low RPM/boost, is that as soon as you get over 80%
> throttle, the fuel injection goes to full duty cycle to prevent
> you from leaning out.  Then, as the air flow catches up, you go
> back to around 14.
>
> Where detonation occurs will depend greatly on the octane of the
> fuel, the compression ratio and a few other factors.  Basically,
> its a little different for each engine.
>
> Joe
> 93 RT/TT
> 02 WRX
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:38:43 -0500
From: "Danny Swanson" <dizzydan_02@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Looking for a TT or DOHC motor Possible engine rebuild needed
 
I own a 1991 Dodge Stealth ES with 163,000 miles.  It either blew a head
gasket or the head is cracked either way I either need to get this motor
rebuilt or I need to find a TT motor with 110,000 miles and under, or a DOHC
with no more than 75,000 miles.  If anyone is selling a TT or DOHC motor or
if anyone can rebuilt a DOHC please contact me.
Thanks,
Danny
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:17:20 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
 
How about if I bought a good quality BOV that vents to the atmosphere
(though I prefer intake).  Then, use the opening that is created for another
small cone air filter. That is a pretty small opening. About 1" ?  But with
the stock MAS and no fuel control, this amount of air bypass may still be
right for 450cc injectors (they're being mailed to me right now). I have the
A/F gauge as well as some cheap copper plugs that I can foul up while I'm
playing around. I'll put the platinums back in when I get a decent mixture.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:27:37 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
I'm such a damn perfectionist. I'm spending WEEKS on the 60k tune up. Well,
also I only get a couple hours each day I actually go out to work on the
car. I live in an apartment complex so I have to haul my van with tools way
out to the street just to work on it. I'm changing all crank/cam oil seals,
cleaning all the cam gears, pulleys, and the block, replacing all the
gaskets (including timing cover gaskets etc). I'm also replacing all the
bolts and brackets (ones that may strip or break soon) and every single
idler pulley and tensioner (a total of 6), plus the alternator. The
alternator seems to be in a weak spot. If your PCV gets clogged or your oil
cap is leaking, then oil drips all over it. Mine's all fouled up, I'm
surprised it still charges my battery.
 
Now that I've said all that, I seriously wonder how good of a job the dealer
did on your 60k. Those guys are probably underpaid and in a hurry to get
their burrito break. I wouldn't trust them with a dime.
 
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
torn apart for 60k
 
already have:
stillen dp & atr singleshot catback
 
will install:
450cc injectors+afc or air bypass, mbc @12-14psi, stillen intake, fuel pump
hotwire
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:33:19 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
oh, i didn't mean to scare anyone with that. to clear up any accusations of
paranoia or funny looks that I put on people's faces, remember that my car
has 188000 miles on it.
 
:)
 
riyan
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:59:14 -0500
From: Shane Thoms <sthoms@thomsclan.com>
Subject: Team3S: 300ZX turbos
 
I have the opportunity to get a pair of new 300ZX.  Are these things worth
anything to me as a VR4 owner?
I will be getting the make/model number soon, but wanted to know the
collectives opinion.
 
Thanks,
Shane
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:23:13 EDT
From: Rod2414738@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k done, now I have problems
 
Thanks to all for your help and ideas!  When my car started to act up, I was
on my way back in to work, so I didn't bother opening the hood.  I probably
should have though.  The dealer found that the hose to the intercooler had
popped off, just as many of you suggested.  They believe they did not get it
tight the first time, and replaced the clamp.  There was no mention of any
gasket or o-ring replacement though, so I'm not sure that got done.  I did
drive the car hard tonight though, and nothing strange happened.
 
Ive only had the car a couple of weeks and don't know much about it yet.  The
only work I have ever had someone else do on any of my cars is transmission
and timing belts, so I do look forward to spending more time under the hood. 
Hopefully it will be for leisure though, and not out of necessity!!!  The
Stealth is my second car though, so I don't mind having it out of commission
for a few days while I take my time fixing it.  It just makes me appreciate
it that much more when I get it back on the road.
 
Thanks to all for the great suggestions, and I look forward to learning more
about these fun cars!  I traded in a Ford Taurus SHO for this car, so I am
somewhat used to interesting problems and difficulty finding parts. 
 
- -Rod Schmidt
'93 Stealth TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:57:07 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
 
Kind of a late reply, but I just wanted to let you guys know that I pretty
much fixed my idle problem.  See I had an exhaust leak the entire time I've
had the car and one day the pipe just broke in half, like right under the
center console.  So the back half was just hanging there, and the car
sounded like I was racing a drag car(very loud).  I thought that fixing the
exhaust might fix my problems with the bad idling but wasn't sure.  Finally
I found a good exhaust shop to work on it and they replaced the piping from
the first cat all the way to right before the muffler.  They put in straight
exhaust except for this cucumber looking thing the guy called a resonator.
Since then my idle has been smother, and has only "hunted" on me once during
a really hot day while I was driving around hard on the car with the A/C on.
 
So here's my question.... How exactly has my idle problem been fixed?  I am
thinking that maybe it's getting a correct reading from an O2 sensor?  ...or
maybe having the entire exhaust system instead of just half is making
back-pressure???
 
If anyone has any thoughts let me know...
If not, oh well it's fixed now, I'm happy :)
 
- -Erik
'91 Stealth
AZ
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
> I talked with my mechanic over the phone and he seems to think it's
> the idle stepper motor(more precisely the wire that powers it or a
> fuse linked to it).  Is this an actual part on our cars?  Where do
> I find it and any fuses for it?
>
> It is an actual part on our cars.  It is commonly refer to as the
> ISC (Idle Speed Controller).  It is located on the throttle body
> just below the butterfly.  You will see a electrical connector
> attached to it.  I don't know of any fuses for it.  You could just
> disconnect it and see if your car still hunts for a rpm.  It won't
> idle well with it disconnected but it should at least idle steadily.
>
> Doug
> 92 Stealth RT TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:07 -0700
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speed bleeders
 
Andre, All,
 
stock front bleeder screw from my '91 R/T TT is M10x1.0x25 (10 mm dia.,
1.0 mm/thread, 25 mm from 'nut' part to tip of bleed screw)
 
Dave
 
David Margrave wrote:
 
>Hey Andre, I put in speed bleeders in the front a couple years back.  I
>have not yet done the back.  As I recall even the speedbleeder company was
>not 100% sure on sizes for the stealth.
>
>I believe I still have my stock bleed screws in a toolbox.  When I get
>home I'll check it out and try to get exact metric dia. and thread pitch
>info for you.  My car is a '91 R/T TT.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:34:42 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Speed bleeders
 
Thanks Dave. That looks like what they sent me. Checked the rears and they
appear to be the same as the fronts, i.e a lot thinner than these. I guess
the NAs have smaller bleeders all round then?
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Margrave [mailto:davidma@eskimo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speed bleeders
 
Andre, All,
 
stock front bleeder screw from my '91 R/T TT is M10x1.0x25 (10 mm dia.,
1.0 mm/thread, 25 mm from 'nut' part to tip of bleed screw)
 
Dave
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:08:38 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Powersteering problems...
 
I think whoever had your car before you ran the pump dry and it is now
toast.  The fluid is spilling out the top because, rather than sucking
the fluid in, the damaged impeller is churning the fluid (or at least
most of it--some is probably getting through).  When you look inside the
reservoir, are their air bubbles in the fluid?  Also, the groaning sound
you describe is typical of a trashed power steering pump.  I think
that's your problem.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #974
***************************************