Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, October 16 2002 Volume
01 : Number 973
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:43:31 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
At 08:31 15.10.2002 -0700, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
>Take the A/F
readings from that turbo timer with a grain of salt. It
>operates
off of the stock O2 sensor voltages, which are accurate around
>stoichiometric (14.7:1), but highly inaccurate outside of that
range.
>.95 volts is richer than .9 volts, but how MUCH richer
varies from O2
>sensor to O2 sensor and car to car.
The A/F gauge is nothing else than a volt meter and the output of the O2
sensor is the same on every model with the same O2 sensor. If not then your
car has a problem. It is desired that you run with as less as possible
knock with the highest as possible A/F ratio (i.e. leanest as possible)
this point is where the most power is generated while being still on the
bright side of the moon.
On our cars without a data logger the O2 sensor readings should be above
0.92 volts for this. I don't know the A/F ratio for this but it is
defined.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:01:13 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <
cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Steering wheel swaps
Anyone care to comment on this?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andre Cerri
Sent: Thursday,
September 05, 2002 1:48 PM
Are the steering wheels all the same through the years? Specifically with
regard to a 92. Don't care about the stereo controls. Mine is totally scuffed
up.
Any concerns about air bags when swapping?
All comments and suggestions welcome.
Thanks
Andre
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:44:40 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
> The A/F gauge is nothing else than a volt meter and the
> output
of the O2
> sensor is the same on every model with the same O2 sensor.
I've heard quite a few people make statements contrary to this. The
consensus I've heard is that the voltage from a particular sensor can vary based
on temperature, age, and the price of tea in China.
Stock O2 sensor are not precision instruments - their intended purpose is
to signal whether the mixture is above or below stoichiometry. If you want
to see how rich or lean you're running, a wideband O2 meter is the tool to
use. It used to be that these were extremely expensive tools only
accessible at a dyno. Recently though, a few DIY designs utilizing
an OEM Bosch wideband sensor have been used with great results. FJO makes
a commercial product for around $700 with sensor, I think. I'm most
familiar with as Australian company, where you can pick up a pre-built
controller and display for around $250, and then get the sensor from an
American source for around $150:
If you're not going to use a wideband O2 sensor, then EGT temps, knock, ECU
timing retard and general engine smoothness are all good indicators of how
your engine is running. I think it is better to tune to these
indicators, and use the stock O2 sensor voltages as a guideline rather than
gospel. Could my .92 volts be the same as your .92 volts?
Sure. But I wouldn't bet my head gasket on it. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
Yep..it sure can.
***
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6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available
for MK3 supras NOW! Check out
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:11:45 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <
cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Climate control #2
While we're on the subject, recently the graphical climate control display
died on my 92. Everything still works, just no display.
Anyone seen this before? Possible feed wire worked loose?
Thx for any help.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:26:51 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Sears
Point track report
As mentioned in some of the testimonials on the 3SI.org site a great time
was had by most --- events have shown that testosterone and youthful exuberance
can win wars and bend cars [ name of the party withheld to protect the
guilty ]. Us old guys try to prevent barrier assisted stops because of the
damage they can do to body parts [ mine, not the cars ]. 'sigh' ---
to be 10' tall and bulletproof again.
All in all a great weekend --- on the downside NASA had too damn many cars
in the HPDE groups on Saturday, Sunday was much better but still pushing the
limit as far as I'm concerned. The first two sessions on Saturday were
timed at 12 minutes each --- that's ridiculous and I'll be sending a nastygram
to NASA.
The new facility is really 1st class and apparently they'll be re-paving
the track before the next NASCAR race. It's nice to be at a facility that has
indoor plumbing and hot and cold water --- hell, back when I was a kid
---- well never mind.
Nothing like a little low speed push to get your attention as you slide
towards the tire barrier, your tires shuddering and clawing for traction ---
that occurs right after braking from 100+ while aimed straight at another
barrier that forms the perimeter for the turn 11. Once your tires hook up again
you're headed off down the front 'straight' [ actually a dogleg left ] ---
full throttle, a foot from the wall at the dogleg looking at a long black streak
on the track and a big tire mark on the outside wall, damn, somebody did
it wrong !!
You can carry a ton of speed into 1, a fast uphill left hand sweeper ---
pucker factor kept me slow there both days. Done wrong you go off track into
the hillside, done too fast, you carry too much speed into 2 [ see
paragraph 1 ]. Done right it probably feels great although I never felt close to
optimum there. 2 through 8a form the portion of the track I'm familiar
with, it was the shortened version that resulted while the $50 million
renovation was taking place.
Coming out of 1 you brake hard and downshift for 2, clip the berm and head
towards the hillside grandstands at track out --- last year I managed a
nifty little 90 degree reorientation after getting too much berm. From
track out at 2 there's a nice short straight that allows us higher HP guys blow
by the wannabes, hard downhill braking into the uphill left known as turn
3. Late apex 3a and a fast down hill run into 4, a medium speed 90º right that
flows into a fairly high speed right hand sweeper done at WOT in
3rd.
The 270º downhill known as the carousel is another of those turns that I
have never taken at what I consider optimum speed. Next is a 110 mph run to the
turn 7 hairpin --- hard braking and downshifting to make the big 'U' turn.
Several methods recommended --- double apex it or run in deep and do a single
apex. I just go a little deep and do a constant radius turn with a lot of
throttle about half way through, it slides a little wide but there's plenty of
room to work with.
Next are the esses, and I finally feel in control of that mess --- last
year the walls scared the poop out of me but now that the construction is done
there is more room for error, while driving I like to repeat the mantra
--- you have to drive it home dummy.
New to me but part of the original track is the 8a, 9, 10 complex ---- much
speed can be carried through here and I got better as track time accumulated.
9 is 100+ with some room for error but that damn 10 is a high speed right
with walls where you'd be if you screw it up. There are also a lot of marbles
[ balled up rubber ] all over the area and if you get off line you're off
track. 10 takes you to that 100+ run up to 11 where you hope to hell you
didn't overcook your brakes during the preceding 10 turns. Heading towards
a wall at 100 mph is no time to find out you've got brake fade --- for the most
part I left a lot of leeway for error here.
That's the track, it's fun, it's fast, it's challenging, but the best part
of the weekend was meeting with and being with friends who share a common bond
--- not just 3S people but people who like cars and driving and having a
good time. Bonds and memories formed like that are not soon forgotten. My
condolences to those who could attend and didn't, and to those who wanted
to and couldn't [ e.g. Bob and ET, you were missed ]
Thanks to all that attended and helped make it a memorable weekend.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, fastmax wrote:
> All in all a great weekend ---
on the downside NASA had too damn many
> cars in the HPDE groups on
Saturday, Sunday was much better but still
> pushing the limit as far as
I'm concerned. The first two sessions on
> Saturday were timed at 12
minutes each --- that's ridiculous and I'll
> be sending a nastygram to
NASA.
- ---
Although I agree that 12min was too short, but to say too many
cars were there isnt NASAs fault. Grp3 is still a drivers school. If
you dont like no-passing rules, upgrade to Grp4. Its all in what you
make it.
Grp4 is -not- a bunch of hardcases, its full of all sorts
of people at different stages in learning.
IN fact, people that try out four, say they feel safer there than in
3.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:37:43 -0700
From: Rick Pierce <
piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
Way to say it Jim,
I really enjoyed the weekend - what a great time (especially seeing there
is some interest in Road Racing from the real young guys (early to mid 20's)).
I too, thought we were being "ripped off" on those earlier sessions (my
words not yours). Sunday was better, but then HPDE had to deal with a
bunch of people new to the track/HPDE 3).
After ??? had a problem going from turn 1-2, I caved and took it at less
speed (even when waved to pass when going into the apex of turn 1 (I could
have handled that no problem at 100+ but actually was worried about
whatever happened to ??? so much I always slowed down after the
incident)). As the sessions moved forward, I also got higher speeds
though the 8a-9-10 section (so much so that I was putting distance on anyone
following/wanting to pass through that area). I was not up to the
ultra low times set up (1:08, god He must have passed me multiple times and I
didn't see him), but my g/f did time me on my best lap @ 2:15 (I thought
myself extremely slow compared to the guys on race tires so I was very
surprised).
I feel great to have kept off a bunch of the faster HPDE non-3S group 3
cars for over 3 laps. I killed them in the Carousel, going into 7 and even
though they tried to undercut me in 7 I blew them off with the single apex
move (you gotta love that turbo and AWD even with street tires - big accolades
to the REAR ANTI SWAY BAR alone mod (with my two tower braces)) Turn 11 is
a great one for the TT cars, you can walk just about anything getting out of
there!
I never drove last October, but I met most of the SoCal guys there and I
appreciate all the friendship and camaraderie exhibited then and now! (Damon, I
need help in changing out my brake pads - care to reciprocate?). So this
was a year later and everyone acted like it was yesterday - thanks to everyone
for coming up (I like the idea we do this again in ButtonWillow sometime
when there's not a lot going on). I also really like meeting the people I
hadn't met before: Mike, Dan, Andrew, Mark, and the 3Si crowd!
Thanks everyone, Rick
deleted- Jim Berry's original Post
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:06:21 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
I'm sure this was a typo, and Roger meant to type 0.92-0.96 (just so nobody
blows their engine, lol)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
Sent: Tuesday, October
15, 2002 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
For cars without the ability to check the knock sum get a voltmeter or A/F
meter and make sure it always shows in between 0.82 - 0.86 Volts at the O2
sensor at WOT. This is where the stock level is around and it seems the
engines do like this area at most. Also use the best gas you can get, 91 octane
is not recommended at all.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:13:40 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
Ahhhhhhhh, thanks Bill !!! Thanks ... it was indeed a typo you are
ABSOLUTELY right.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my
problem?
> I'm sure this was a typo, and Roger meant to type 0.92-0.96 (just
so
> nobody blows their engine, lol)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:17:42 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
I'd agree with that. Wide band sensors are more accurate,
thus
more expensive. I'm not sure what the physical
differences are
though.
I was using a WB when I tuned to 12.0:1. Does anyone
think that .5
in the ration (i.e. 12.5:1) could be
my difference in power? I'm
concerned that I lost a
lot of power when I went to the 450cc inj.,
although
I haven't gotten a 1/4 mi time to confirm, only a
216hp rating
from a dyno dynamics AWD.
geis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:23:07 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
Hey Brian is the dyno dynamics a load bearing AWD model? IF so that
will account for your low HP and the difference between a load bearing and a
dyno jet is actually closer to a 22% difference in my experiences.
As for tuning does the car seem to fall flat on its face? if so try
dialing in for an 11:1 a/f on the dyno.... Trust me here you may be
lean on the street but look "golden" on the dyno
Bri where are you in relation to CT (reply to this privately) I may have to
make a road trip later this month so I would consider make a trip to help
you sort your fuel curve out.
Anything else let me know......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:27:55 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Sears Point track report
> Although I agree that 12min was too short, but to say too many cars
> were there isnt NASAs fault. Grp3 is still a drivers
school. If you
> dont like no-passing rules, upgrade to Grp4.
Its all in what you make
> it.
It's NASA's school and they and only they determine when to stop accepting
entry forms for an event --- we had over 50 people in HPDE3. We can argue
till hell freezes over how many people is too many but IMO there were too
many people in that run group on Saturday. Having said that, the first two
session were a joke and the last two were much better in terms of laps and
traffic. I realize NASA has no control over how the cars behave themselves but
they don't even space the cars on the track, they just dump them out. I
tried to leave 5 seconds or so between me and the car in front on being
admitted the track and the pit marshal got all excited and started waving me on.
There were areas on the track that were a parking lot !!! no amount of
passing will
correct that. Several times I just waved a group buy so I can
get some driving room, but when you only have 5 laps like we did in the morning
there isn't much time for playing games.
> Grp4 is -not- a bunch of hardcases, its full of all sorts of people at
> different stages in learning.
>
> IN fact, people that try
out four, say they feel safer there than in 3.
This part of your comment I agree on --- I would feel much more comfortable
in four, however since I had never run the full track I felt I'd spare them
the pain of me learning the track. I even thought of going to 4 on Sunday
but I talked to a guy who wasn't allowed to because it was full.
I'm very careful about watching where the other cars are and who's in my
mirrors --- I can't say the same about many of the other group 3 drivers,
I've left many a pass undone because I don't think they see me. In addition
I'd like to be in a group that has more experience because you learn from
those
around you. I'll probably move to 4 regardless of my experience
on track for the next event.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:35:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
> It's NASA's school and they and only they determine when to stop
> accepting entry forms for an event --- we had over 50 people in HPDE3.
> We can argue till hell freezes over how many people is too many but
> IMO there were too many people in that run group on Saturday. Having
> said that, the first two session were a joke and the last two were
> much better in terms of laps and traffic. I realize NASA has no
> control over how the cars behave themselves but they don't even space
> the cars on the track, they just dump them out. I tried to leave 5
> seconds or so between me and the car in front on being admitted the
> track and the pit marshal got all excited and started waving me on.
> There were areas on the track that were a parking lot !!! no amount of
> passing will correct that. Several times I just waved a group buy so I
> can get some driving room, but when you only have 5 laps like we did
> in the morning there isn't much time for playing games.
-
---
Jim:
What actually defines "too many"? 50 cars on a 3+mi track isnt
much.
Nothing keeps anyone from puling thru hot pits to let the SLOW cars get
ahead, or you from gridding early to get AHEAD of the slow cars. Its a
drivers school, not a race event in Grp 1-2-3. Get that straight,
and it'll all make sense to you. If there was only TWO cars on track, you
and a Yugo..guess what, you'd bitch you caught up to him too and couldnt
pass. You sound ready for group4. You understand the car and the track you
are on..youre ready for more real track time. Dont blame the group,
just that you placed yourself in
it.
> > Grp4 is -not- a bunch of hardcases, its full of all sorts of
people
> > at different stages in learning.
> >
> >
IN fact, people that try out four, say they feel safer there than
> >
in 3.
>
> This part of your comment I agree on --- I would feel
much more
> comfortable in four, however since I had never run the full
track I
> felt I'd spare them the pain of me learning the track. I even
thought
> of going to 4 on Sunday but I talked to a guy who wasn't
allowed to
> because it was full.
- ---
We all hard to learn it
too..Id argue Grp4 people are far more conservative than any other group out
there, because they understand their own mental limits.
> I'm very careful about watching where the other cars are and who's in
> my mirrors --- I can't say the same about many of the other group
3
> drivers, I've left many a pass undone because I don't think they
see
> me. In addition I'd like to be in a group that has more
experience
> because you learn from those around you. I'll probably
move to 4
> regardless of my experience on track for the next event.
-
---
Im sure you'll like it. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:58:16 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
>What actually defines "too many"? 50 cars on a 3+mi track isnt
much.
I'm wondering just how long Sear Point track is. The Infineon website says
"The twisting and challenging 2.52 mile and 2 mile road courses..."
Thunderhill says their track is 3 miles. I know I got around Sears Point
faster than I do at Thunderhill (10-15 seconds faster). I'm wondering how
one really measures the track length. During the parade laps at SP might
have been a chance to check the odometer for track length. Wish I had
thought of it.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:59:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
Whups...my bad then. I was thinking Thill at that point.
Thats still just shy of a football field between all 50 cars..on
average.
Get say..2 or 3 bunches with 5-8 cars each on the track, it wouldnt be hard
to find many hundreds of yards of clear space all over the track.
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Michael Gerhard wrote:
> >What actually defines "too many"? 50 cars on a 3+mi track
isnt much.
>
> I'm wondering just how long Sear Point track is. The
Infineon website
> says
> "The twisting and challenging 2.52 mile
and 2 mile road courses..."
> Thunderhill says their track is 3 miles. I
know I got around Sears Point
> faster than I do at Thunderhill (10-15
seconds faster). I'm wondering how
> one really measures the track
length. During the parade laps at SP might
> have been a chance to check
the odometer for track length. Wish I had
> thought of it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:28:59 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Is A/F ratio my problem?
Hope I'm not asking you things that other people already have. Have you
checked your compression and tested your intake for leaks yet? Also, what are
your AFC settings? Maybe they could use a little tweaking.
Riyan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:37:29 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
Well, I haven't checked the intake for leaks, but I am
reading 12PSI at
the intake plenum (I'm running stock
boost). I didn't do a compression
test, but I'm
concerned that I lost power from before the plugs and
injectors. That's a good thought though... I'll ask my mechanic to see if
he tested them when he had it.
As for the AFC settings, that's another thought of mine.
I know that i
have it tuned for 12.0:1 A/F tho, I'm
just wondering if it should be 12.5 or
something and if
it would make that big of a difference.
geis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Riyan Mynuddin
[mailto:riyan@hotpop.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:29
PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Is A/F ratio my problem?
>
> Hope
I'm not asking you things that other people already
> have. Have
you
> checked your compression and tested your intake for leaks
>
yet? Also, what
> are your AFC settings? Maybe they could use a little
tweaking.
------------------------------
All this year I've been running midweek events at Blackhawk Farms (with the
Porsche club) and at Midamerica Raceway (Tuesdays). Not only is it dirt
cheap ($50 at MidAm) but there ain't nobody there!
I am starting to avoid weekend events that cost $250-$400 entry fee, plus a
few hundred bucks for hotel, meals, etc., for three days.
My advice: look for midweek events.
Rich/slow old poop
At 02:58 PM 10/15/02 -0700, Michael Gerhard wrote:
>
>>What
actually defines "too many"? 50 cars on a 3+mi track isnt much.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
Must be nice to be unemployed or well off.
These days..its difficult to take weekdays off politically..and still have
family vacation time.
I still think you get more out of a NASA weekend (if you wanted to) than
you would a generic open track.
> All this year I've been running midweek events at Blackhawk Farms
> (with the Porsche club) and at Midamerica Raceway (Tuesdays). Not only
is it dirt cheap ($50 at MidAm) but there ain't nobody there!
>
> I
am starting to avoid weekend events that cost $250-$400 entry fee,
> plus
a few hundred bucks for hotel, meals, etc., for three days.
>
> My
advice: look for midweek events.
>
> Rich/slow old poop
>
> At 02:58 PM 10/15/02 -0700, Michael Gerhard wrote:
> >
>
>>What actually defines "too many"? 50 cars on a 3+mi track isnt
> >>much.
------------------------------
I just replaced the in-dash tweeters in my 1997 VR-4 and was wondering if
someone could verify the wire colors for me ?
The service manual electrical circuit diagram does not show the colors I
have and I was wondering which wire was the + and which was - ?
The wires are red and yellow.
The door speaker wiring matches what is in the service manual, but the
tweeter wiring does not.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Sears Point track report
Jim:
Mail NASA..work it out with them on the short sessions.
Again, if you're a Grp4 guy stuck in a Grp3 world..dont tell us about how
it sucked that people not as good as you had everyone stopped in turn 11. When
you enter a group with limited passing rules, you have to expect
that.
Thats not a hit on you..just a fact.
All it takes is ONE car in a group to do that, not 50. NASA didnt
oversell the event by any means I dont believe.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:32:55 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Sears Point track report
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> Nothing keeps anyone from puling thru hot pits to let the SLOW cars
> get ahead, or you from gridding early to get AHEAD of the slow
cars.
As I said, I did, and I do pull over to allow the track to clear ---
however with the extremely short sessions at the beginning Saturday pulling into
the pits was an unattractive option.
> Its a drivers school, not a race event in Grp 1-2-3. Get that
> straight, and it'll all make sense to you.
Your grin and bear it admonition is falling on deaf ears --- it's not like
I showed up and asked to play in their parade. NASA is a privately held
company that solicited me with promises of track time, lots of track time.
Instead I got little track time initially and it was definitely not
quality time. I had to stop on track on several occasions --- there were
10 cars stacked up at turn 11. I was one
of perhaps 350 people who paid $300
each [ $105,000 for the mathematically impaired ] with promises of track
time not parking lot time. 105 large is a
serious amount of money but I'm
not in the business of just providing them additional income --- I want track
time for my $300. Do a poll of the group 2 and 3 people and ask what they
thought of their early sessions --- as I said Sunday was much better, around 30+
cars per session.
I've been at events with the Alfa club, Touring car club, Impala SS club [
Wednesday event --- 45 people at $115 each. More track time than you can handle
]. For the
most part the costs are less $225 to $285 and the track
time longer with 15 to 25 cars per group not 50+.
My gripe with NASA is that they seem more interested in their race groups
than the HPDE groups. It seems like they introduce a new race group every year
and then just squeeze us in between practice and race sessions.
EOR [ end of rant ]
> If there was only TWO cars on track, you and
> a Yugo..guess
what, you'd bitch you caught up to him too and couldnt
> pass. You sound
ready for group4. You understand the car and the
> track you are
on..youre ready for more real track time. Dont blame
> the group,
just that you placed yourself in it.
No problem with a single Yugo --- I can kick his ass !!! I think I
could even beat
Schumacher if they made him drive a Yugo and gave me one
passing zone.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:16:06 EDT
From:
GMightymoose@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
anybody ever heard of these guys?
<A HREF="
http://www.teamrip.com/5th%20gear.html">TRE
Max Speed 5th Gear</A> I contacted them the other day and might do
the 5th
gear upgrade. Also could anyone suggest a good clutch kit
upgrade? I just
acquired another 92 VR4( basically stock) Any info is
greatly appreciated in
advance
99 & 92 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:27:27 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: anybody ever heard of these guys?
>
http://www.teamrip.com/5th%20gear.html>
I contacted them the other day and might do the 5th
> gear upgrade.
Also could anyone suggest a good clutch kit upgrade? I
> just
acquired another 92 VR4( basically stock) Any info is greatly
>
appreciated in advance
>
> 99 & 92 VR4
TRE only works on DSM AWD trannies. They don't have parts for our
Getrag AWD trannies. They do have some parts for the non-turbo FWD manual
trannies on 3/S cars since the FWD tranny is similar to the one in the
Eclipse/Talon/Laser.
Unless something major has changed recently...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:54:17 -0700
From: Greg Gonzales <
stealth@fitnessolutions.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
What can be some causes for my car to backfire on deceleration. eg. I
accelerate in first gear and let off the gas and as I slow I can
hear one to
several backfires, it also does it in 2nd, and 3rd. My miles per gallon has
fallen quite a bit too. From 18 to 15 mpg.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance
Greg Gonzales
92 RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:44:30 -0400
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Causes for Backfire on deceleration
How exactly does backfiring sound? I think I may be having the same problem
on my '95 VR4
Alex.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Gonzales
Sent: Tuesday,
October 15, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on
deceleration
What can be some causes for my car to backfire on deceleration. eg. I
accelerate in first gear and let off the gas and as I slow I can
hear one to
several backfires, it also does it in 2nd, and 3rd. My miles per gallon has
fallen quite a bit too. From 18 to 15 mpg.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance
Greg Gonzales
92 RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:56:45 -0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
you have a leak in your exhaust.
Tyson
------------------------------
At 05:57 PM 10/15/02 -0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Must be nice to be
unemployed or well off.
Neither. Sorta self employed. I work at home as a telecommuter.
Rich
>These days..its difficult to take weekdays off politically..and still
>have family vacation time.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:35:37 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S: NA
MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
...I definitely need some feedback on this one. Jeff L. did a lookup awhile
ago and according to what I've read, the MAS has different part numbers on
turbo and non-turbo cars. The part number has changed over the years as
well. The NA SOHC/DOHC cars use 240cc injectors if I'm not mistaken. TT cars use
360cc injectors. This is a 50% increase in size. 240cc * 1.5 = 360cc. Are
the wiring harnesses the same on both MAS units? What I'm getting at here
is...
couldn't an N/A MAS on a TT car be an easy way to dump in some 550cc
injectors? 360cc x 1.5 = 540cc - close enough.
I'll need further information.
1) wiring harness and signal compatibility
2) the ECU decides how long
to open up the injectors. Does it decide based on a common signal from the MAS
(meaning that both NA and turbo MAS have the same output signal and it's
the ECU that is programmed differently on NA vs
TT)
or:
Does the ECU decide based on the difference between NA and turbo MAS
units?
Let me stipulate.
The ECU decides how much fuel to inject based on how much air is reported
by the MAS. If the NA MAS reports a COMPATIBLE, 50% LOWER "air mass" signal
than the TT MAS (and the other wiring harness signals are identical), then
we may be in business.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:23:33 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
I hope I'm right, but I do have some concerns. How would NA MAS units react
under boost conditions and what about WOT? At WOT (assuming the engine ignores
O2 readings) I'll still be dumping out large gobs of fuel from the
exhaust! Soon as I get the 450s in I better stay off WOT and/or go buy me some
cheap spark plugs instead of fouling up these platinums! Anyway,
getting back to point... the boost won't actually get to the MAS but you know...
I'm talking air flow wise. If someone can assure me that I won't blow my
engine/turn on check engine light/any of that bad stuff... then I will be more
than happy to buy an NA MAS and do this to my TT car. This is the PERFECT
time. I just got my stillen intake--meaning I need to go through the hell of
those four stripped nuts on my old MAS... and I'm finishing up my
60k service. My 450cc injectors are on the way and I haven't ordered an AFC (and
don't plan to). Where can we get a hold of these MAS pinouts? I'm
gonna check the engine electrical section of my shop manual. Can someone out
there with an NA car e-mail me the NA MAS pinout and circuit diagram (if
there is one?). Or if "Mr. NA person with shop manual" happens to not have a
scanner then I'll scan what I can find to him.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:16:58 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
For all intents and purposes, a N/A MAS is the exact same thing as a TT
MAS, although the N/A MAS is not able to compensate for as much air...
So... What will happen is you will quickly max out the N/A's flow
capability, and run into some serious trouble when that happens, lost data
counts, etc.... It's a common problem among modified 1G DSM's, and also
the reason they upgrade to the 2G MAS...
It's just not gonna work... Max airflow hz is right at 1660 (or is it
1606) for both the TT and the N/A MAS.. Stock N/A's pull enough air for
1300 HZ worth of flow (as read in cycles per minute from the MAS to the
ECU)... if 1300 hz is we'll say 230 crank hp, then on a N/A MAS, then max
airflow on the N/A MAS should only be able to support roughly 300
HP...
Just buy a S-AFC and be done with it... they are easy to set up, and pretty
darn fool proof if you even have a clue what you are doing... Plus, they
aren't even that expensive...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:32:42 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: WAS NA MAS, NOW NEW Fuel controllers
Anyone considering buying an HKS or Apex-I product in the next two months
should wait, rumor has the next gen of HKS an Apex-I models will have the
ability to store 2 fuel maps in them (pump gas setting and high boost race
gas setting) Also the HKS model is going to have a display screen like
that found on their newest EBC (NOT the EVC PRO)
Just figured I would throw it out their since I was playing with babelfish
and HKS's and APEX-I Japanese website and they are showing some pics of
new products there (now the question is when will we get them?)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cody
[SMTP:overclck@satx.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:17
AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector
accommodation
>
> For all intents and purposes, a N/A MAS is the
exact same thing as a
> TT MAS, although the N/A MAS is not able to
compensate for as much
> air... So... What will happen is you will
quickly max out the N/A's
> flow capability, and
> run into some
serious trouble when that happens, lost data counts, etc....
> It's a
common problem among modified 1G DSM's, and also the reason they
> upgrade
to the 2G MAS...
>
> It's just not gonna work... Max airflow
hz is right at 1660 (or is it
> 1606)
> for both the TT and the N/A
MAS.. Stock N/A's pull enough air for
> 1300 HZ worth of flow (as
read in cycles per minute from the MAS to
> the ECU)... if 1300 hz is
we'll say 230 crank hp, then on a N/A MAS,
> then max airflow on the N/A
MAS should only be able to support roughly
> 300 HP...
>
>
Just buy a S-AFC and be done with it... they are easy to set up, and
>
pretty darn fool proof if you even have a clue what you are doing...
>
Plus, they aren't even that expensive...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:43:36 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: front speaker wire colors
Here's a trick of the trade if you still have your old cone tweeters. Get a
1.5 volt battery (I usually use AA, but you can use any 1.5 volt battery),
and hold some wire leads on the + and - terminals. Put the - wire on
one terminal of the tweeter, and tap the + wire on the other terminal of the
tweeter. If the speaker cone pushes OUTWARD, the polarity is
correct. If it sucks in, the polarity is reversed. If the speaker
cone sucks in, reverse the leads and try again just to make sure the cone
is pushing out. Once you have the correct polarity, trace the terminal on
the tweeter to the wire that was connected to it, and you'll be assured of
having the correct polarity.
Cheers!
Joe
- -----Original Message-----
From: anthonymelillo
[mailto:anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:39
PM
Subject: Team3S: front speaker wire colors
I just replaced the in-dash tweeters in my 1997 VR-4 and was wondering if
someone could verify the wire colors for me ?
The service manual electrical circuit diagram does not show the colors I
have and I was wondering which wire was the + and which was - ?
The wires are red and yellow.
The door speaker wiring matches what is in the service manual, but the
tweeter wiring does not.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:46:31 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
Have you checked your engine timing? I see your car is a 92.
Did you change the timing belt and tensioner?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Gonzales
[mailto:stealth@fitnessolutions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:54
PM
Subject: Team3S: Causes for Backfire on deceleration
What can be some causes for my car to backfire on deceleration. eg. I
accelerate in first gear and let off the gas and as I slow I can
hear one to
several backfires, it also does it in 2nd, and 3rd. My miles per gallon has
fallen quite a bit too. From 18 to 15 mpg.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance
Greg Gonzales
92 RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:52:01 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NA MAS on TT car for large injector accommodation
>> Max airflow hz is right at 1660 (or is it 1606)
Slight correction. The max count is something over 2000. Even Todd Day
(TMO)
is not sure what the number is exactly. What Todd does say is that
1606 is the
limit of what the dataloggers can report. The ECM can read and
respond to over
1606 Hz.
In any case , I can see no advantage of a NA MAS over a turbo MAS for a
turbo
car. Each Hz from either MAS should represent the same air volume flow
rate.
So unless the NA MAS can measure and report a higher flow rate than
the turbo
MAS, there is no advantage. Also, as far as I know each MAS has
the same upper
limit. Why should it be different (not that logic controls
all manufacturing
decisions)? The ECM makes the calcs and controls the fuel.
The MAS just
reports air volume flow rate, pressure, and temp (simple
sensors).
As Cody suggests, either keep the stock MAS and use something like an
S-AFC,
or get rid of the MAS and use an ARC2 or VPC (or a stand-alone of
some sort).
Links to TMO and other datalogger web sites are on the GIANT Links Page at
my
web site.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#973
***************************************