Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, October 11
2002 Volume 01 : Number 969
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:33:50 -0500
From: "Mark and Brenda" <
mebmark@cablerocket.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 92 red base for sale
Hi gang, I ran across a 92 red base with a cracked bell housing the other
day, He said he had just had a new clutch put in, I saw the old one in the
back, It looked to me like the new clutch flew apart and cracked bell
housing, It has 1200000 miles on it, it starts and runs good, has a small dent
in the left front fender and busted lens but looks ok other than that, has
new tires all good glass, original stereo stock rims, he said he would
take 900.00 but I bet 800.00 cash would take it, I would buy it if it had the
DOHC engine just to pull it and rebuild for my NA. Just thought I'd share
my find with the list, if anyone is interested let me know and I'll take a
few digi pics of it for ya. It's in Pottsboro TX, thats about 60 miles north of
Dallas. Mark Shaffer, happy owner of the blue NA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:47:19 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Voltage draw
Were you referring to all of the lamps or just those prior to 94??
The
pre-projector sealed-beams were/are pathetic (had a '93 VR4). The
projectors are actually quite good. Throw them up on a light-board and
their pattern is what you'd expect from a good driving light. The
pattern is nearly as good as good as my Cibie driving lights .......
nice and flat off to the left and proper angle up to the right.
Boundaries are just not quite as sharp. Put in, as you say, 100s and
55s and they do quite nicely.
Dennis -==- Philly
> You have a choice between 55 and 100 W bulbs. I'd put 55 W
into
> the headlights, and 100 W bulbs into a good ($$$) set of driving
> lights. Trash the toy junk that comes on our cars.
> This would
be 100 + 100 + 55 + 55 + 55 + 55 = 420 W/12V = 35 A.
>
> If our
cars have at least a 50 A alternator, you should be OK. (I
> dunno what
we have).
>
> If you ran all 100 W bulbs they would draw 50A, so
you'd probably
> need a 70A alternator, which is what we ran on our rally
car
> (Datsun 510).
>
> Before we put the big alternator
on, we would run the battery down
> on the rally car's stock 45 A
alternator. In those days, we could
> run on brown lights until we got to
a service halt and exchanged
> batteries (our crew carried a spare, fully
charged battery). These
> days, with computers being so finicky about
voltage levels, I
> wouldn't take the chance. You probably would
want plenty of
> reserve in the alternator. I guess 15 A more than the
lights draw
> would be enough.
>
> Rich
------------------------------
>The secret to fogs ........ and you hit on it already, is height
of
>mounting and proper aiming. Best placement is high up but below
the
>base of the windshield.
I completely disagree. You are mounting lights way too high.
In ordinary patchy fog, the best light is a very bright driving light with
a sharp cutoff mounted at headlight height. (Mechanical cutoff is best. I
used aluminum brims and I've seen rally cars use big coffee cans).
For impenetrable fog, snow or dust, the best is running on a single far
right low beam or driving light (I could do this with my switching system
-- turn on any single light or combinations of lights).
We have been in fog in the Southern Ohio forests so thick that we had to
run on a single low beam and open both doors so we could follow the edge
of the road. We had to press on, because there was a car a minute behind
us doing the same thing.
In a blizzard in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, we passed three cars on
one stage, because we could see with our lights and they couldn't.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
I have a 94 and its projector aux lights suck. I couldn't wait to take them
out. Maybe my standards for driving lights are higher than most people. I
want those suckers to light up the forest, not just 10 ft in front of the
car.
Rich/slow old poop
At 07:47 PM 10/10/02 -0400, Dennis Ninneman wrote:
>Were you
referring to all of the lamps or just those prior to 94?? The
>pre-projector sealed-beams were/are pathetic (had a '93 VR4). The
>projectors are actually quite good.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:01:17 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
> A good pencil bean driving light can pick out a road sign at more
> than one mile distance, but they are not much good for real
>
driving. Neither are fog lights. Both are useless.
Pencils were never meant to be used alone, but to supplement driving
lamps ....... distance + peripheral lighting. Aimed properly (slightly
right of center) a proper pencil will never blind oncoming traffic ....
not that you should be using them in traffic situations, but in low
light, low traffic.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:15:09 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Rich,
I think we're tracking pretty close. My point was ..... too low is
useless, higher than driver eye level will cause bounce back regardless
of beam pattern or cut-off (mechanical or otherwise). The assumption
is, base of windshield is below drivers eye-level.
Now I'm not talking about rallying, here ...... where we part company
is .... in any kind of fog (was born and raised in Michigan ... rallied
in Michigan), except light, patchy I would not use anything but a fog.
Driving lights have too much pattern, too high. Only ones that might
be OK is the Cibie's ....... great pattern ..... razor sharp cut-offs.
And I WON'T put a coffee can on my beautiful VR4 ..... no matter what
you say!
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: 2nd
Gen Conversion for Sale $600
Hi gang,
I am doing a 99 Conversion, should be complete next week!
Anyway, I now have my stock bumper and lights from my
95 VR4 as spares,
and I might as well list them for
sale...
My car was backed into and the resulting damage (very
minor) resulted in
a settlement that allowed me to
partially pay for a 99 conversion. The
drivers side of
the bumper has a scrape and a dimple, easily fixable
(I
think). No deep gouges or cracks. I can take
pictures for serious
buyers.
I am going to sell the whole package...
FOR SALE $600 + Shipping:
1) The front bumper (stock 1995 with VR4 Chapor
Identity kit)
2) The
headlights (refinished with polish kit, they
look good)
3) The side lights
(blinkers - stock yellow)
4) Front License Plate Mount and bracket.
5)
Misc Spare Hardware left over from the 99 install.
(heck...I will even throw in the fog
lights!!)
4) Stock 95 Fog lights
I want to get some new Fog lights for the 99 front end
anyway, might as
well sell the stock ones rather then
let them gather dust in my garage...
Pretty good deal for someone wanting to convert a
first gen into a
second gen....
The color of the bumper and the lights is Sorrento
Pearl (which is the
dark maroon).
Only ask for pictures if you are serious ok?
I have no idea how much
shipping will be, but it is at
your expense, direct cost, no markup from
me :)
Roger L
F15DOC
Silverdale Washington
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:36:41 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
RE: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Yes I'm in PA and no I've not seen a light board. It is not
the
headlights I have problems with.
And maybe the NHTSA is a national rule but states without inspection
or
without as thorough of an inspection (WV, TN, KY, etc.) will have
much
less policy regarding lights on cars blinding oncoming drivers.
- --Flash!
Pittsburgh, PA
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Ninneman
[mailto:dninneman@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002
19:21
Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
You're in PA?? I think its a national (NHTSA) rule that no
supplemental lights can burn while highs are on. Afraid of blinding
oncoming traffic ........ certainly not from our fogs ;-) The only
problem I have is with SUVs and pick-ups that sit so high their REGULAR
beams can blind you.
Do you have the projector headlights? If so, have you ever put your
low and high beams on a light board. They actually have an OK
pattern ........ flat on the left side and up at about a 60 degree
angle
on the right. Again just need some serious watts.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:53:59 -0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
I'm not so sure the rich condition you were seeing is the fuel
pressure
regulator getting overrun. Don't you think Mitsu engineers would
have
increased the injector timings in the idle/part throttle maps to make
the
car get the correct air/fuel ratio while the pump is in low voltage
mode?
When you upped the voltage to the pump in the low/part throttle area
the
computer may still be opening the injectors for additional
time...thinking
that the pump isn't flowing as much. No matter if it's the
FPR or the stock
computer tuning your fuel trims get maxed out and the
computer doesn't have
the authority range to tune out all the additional
fuel.
I get a slight hesitation when I romp on it and the pump switches from
low
to high voltage mode but the above is the main reason I haven't hotwired
my
pump.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Sent:
Thursday, October 10, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Team3S: Why do many have low
(11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
> --Erik
> '95 VR-4
>
> P.S. As for the low fuel
pressure symptoms I was seeing (differential
> pressure dropping to 31psi
at high flow conditions), wiring the pump to
> the battery directly
eliminated that problem. With 13.8V to the pump,
> it held 43psi
across the injectors all the way to redline with 0.8kg
> of boost.
>
The pressure never varied for more than a half-second and even then, it
>
only moved by 1-2psi. HOWEVER, with the pump at 13.8V, it outflowed
the
> stock regulator and gave me 50psi (differential) at idle and
low-flow
> cruising. This was enough to make it smoke pretty badly under
part-throttle
> cruising... pretty embarrassing. At WOT, the car ran
silly, stupid rich
> (8.5:1 to 10:1), but it felt smoother in the top end
and my EGTs dropped
> by 50C-80C. I'm wondering if getting a
regulated 12.5V to the pump might
> be a happy-medium that would allow the
pump to flow enough to maintain
> pressure and yet not flow so much as to
overflow the regulator and run
> silly rich.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:37:05 EDT
From:
GoblinyTwin@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
Help, I think my car died; 94 yellow TT
I don't know what to do, so if anyone can help me please do.
I have
boost controller and the afc (fuel comp) on my car. I have been
running the car on the original stock turbos. A few nights ago, I was
driving it and I decided to turn on the boost controller. I was
running
around 15 psi at the time. I was going maybe 80 mph and I kind
a floor. The
car kicked in about 15 psi when it shot off. I
immediately tried to turn it
back on but it wouldn't. When I stopped I
noticed that the engine was not
turning when I tried to start it. It
sounded like the starter motor was
spinning only. I called a tow truck
and the tow truck driver told me that it
was the timing belt. The
timing belt was replaced 10,000 miles ago and I
checked it and it's not the
timing belt. If anyone knows what happened
please e-mail me.
Thanks:
Vedran
'94 Yellow Stealth RT/TT
Detroit, MI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:48:52 -0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
HKS SS BOV
This is just an FYI post for HKS SSQV/SS BOV owners.
I took mine apart today to polish it, replace seals, etc. When putting
back
together purposely left out the whistle, which is the triangle thing
that
looks like a Mercedes symbol inside of the front hole. I was hoping to
get
more of a *WHOOOSH* sound like the Greddy. Went out driving, turned
off
radio, rolled both windows down and could not hear it. I was like "dang,
I
hooked something up wrong". Came to a stop, played with the throttle
cable
under the hood, BOV working fine. Dumps A TON of air but is super
quiet.
Went out driving again, this time knowing what sound to listen for and
I can
barely hear it. Matter of fact I can hear it better with the windows
up. Not
quite the result I was looking for but interesting nonetheless. Not
sure if
I like the new "stealthy" mode or if I will put the "ricey" whistle
back
in...
Just FYI for those who have it and want it quieter, the whistle is held
in
by 8 Allen screws, super easy to remove. Maybe later sometime I will
play
around with making my own whistle for a custom sound...
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:18:31 -0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
This excess idle pressure is why I haven't done the rewire yet.
Someone on
the 3SI forums is investigating doing the normal rewire with the
addition of
a $28 Hobbs switch from Napa. He will use the Hobbs switch
to trigger the
new relay from stock voltages to the bypass voltage at a
preset boost. This
sounds like the best solution short of a Kenne Bell
Boost-a-pump (~$210).
If anyone has already done this, I would sure like to
hear the results!
- -Ken
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:56:56 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Help, I think my car died; 94 yellow TT
I had something similar happen to me back in 1997 (complete
account
should be in the archives). Try this: Check the fuses in the
engine
compartment. If you find one that's blown, disconnect the
wiring
connection to the MAF, disconnect the battery, replace the
fuse,
reconnect the MAF and reconnect the battery. It took a dealer
to
figure it out, but it has not reoccurred. Good luck!
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
- -----Original Message-----
From:
GoblinyTwin@aol.comSent: Friday,
October 11, 2002 3:37 AM
Subject: Team3S: Help, I think my car died; 94
yellow TT
I don't know what to do, so if anyone can help me please do.
I have
boost controller and the afc (fuel comp) on my car. I have
been running
the car on the original stock turbos. A few nights ago,
I was driving
it and I decided to turn on the boost controller. I
was running around
15 psi at the time. I was going maybe 80 mph and
I kind a floor.
The car kicked in about 15 psi when it shot off. I
immediately tried to
turn it back on but it wouldn't. When I stopped
I noticed that the
engine was not turning when I tried to start it.
It sounded like the starter
motor was spinning only. I called a tow
truck and the tow truck driver
told me that it was the timing belt.
The timing belt was replaced 10,000
miles ago and I checked it and
it's not the timing belt. If anyone
knows what happened please
e-mail me.
Thanks:
Vedran
'94 Yellow Stealth RT/TT
Detroit, MI
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 07:53:50 -0500
From: "Mark and Brenda" <
mebmark@cablerocket.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need 150000 mile advice. "Kinda lengthy and full of questions"
Hi gang! I'm getting ready to put my baby down for the 60k service
just to
be safe, I don't know if it was done at 120000, I've only had her
about a
month.I am going to include new valve guide seals in the job in hopes
it
will cure the smoke at idle problem. My question is should I go ahead and
do
a full engine rebuild at this time? "How many miles have any of you seen
out
of an NA DOHC if you take excellent care of it"? I was hoping to get
another
40K or so before I rebuild. I'm running Valvoline extended life10W30,
I
don't know what the previous owner used, but I think it was dino oil due
to
the stained color under the oil cap and what I can see inside the
valve
cover, I dont see any sludge build up just the brown stained color. It
used
about 1 quart this first 3000 miles that I have had her.Would it be safe
to
switch to mobil 1 synthetic at this stage in her life? It doesn't make
any
knocking or strange noises at a cold start up, for the most part it
purrs
like a kitten and has plenty of power, it may miss every now and then,
but I
contribute that to spark plugs, and wires. I pulled the front three out
to
inspect them last weekend and they were looking a little worse for wear
with
a gap of about .050, the plug wires look as if they could be
original,
brittle feeling and ugly, I also did the electrolytics in the ECU,
the
100MFD was looking nasty. Anyhow any advice will be taken very
seriously!
TIA
Mark Shaffer, happy owner of the blue NA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:02:22 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need 150000 mile advice. "Kinda lengthy and full of questions"
Whether it is safe to change to Synthetic oil at this point
will
probably cause some debate among us members. There is some
question
whether it will cause rubberized seals to leak, such as the main
seal,
since some believe Synthetic oils STILL differ from dyno oil with
regard
to how rubber seals react, i.e., whether synth oil will not allow
the
seal to expand as fully as dyno oil does. Since your car is NA,
IMHO,
there really is no measurable advantage to running synth oil, so
I
wouldn't take the chance--I'd keep running dyno, changing it at
regular
3000 mile intervals. The real advantages to Synth oil is its
ability to
withstand thermal breakdown and its constant viscosity in cold
weather,
which is important to those of us who own TTs to keep the turbos
running
smoothly. Although the manufacturers say you can keep the Synth
oil in
there longer because of these qualities (say, 7,500 miles or so),
I
doubt that any of us who have TTs do that. I know I change my oil
out
every six months or 3000 miles, whichever comes first, and 3000
miles
RARELY if ever comes first. So if your going to change the oil
out at
3000 mile intervals anyway, I'd stick to a good quality dyno
oil.
Just my thoughts.
CHEERS!
Joe
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark and Brenda
[mailto:mebmark@cablerocket.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:54
AM
Subject: Team3S: Need 150000 mile advice. "Kinda lengthy and full
of
questions"
Hi gang! I'm getting ready to put my baby down for the 60k service
just
to be safe, I don't know if it was done at 120000, I've only had
her
about a month.I am going to include new valve guide seals in the job
in
hopes it will cure the smoke at idle problem. My question is should
I
go ahead and do a full engine rebuild at this time? "How many miles
have
any of you seen out of an NA DOHC if you take excellent care of it"? I
was
hoping to get another 40K or so before I rebuild. I'm running
Valvoline
extended life10W30, I don't know what the previous owner used, but
I
think it was dino oil due to the stained color under the oil cap
and
what I can see inside the valve cover, I dont see any sludge build
up
just the brown stained color. It used about 1 quart this first
3000
miles that I have had her.Would it be safe to switch to mobil
1
synthetic at this stage in her life? It doesn't make any knocking
or
strange noises at a cold start up, for the most part it purrs like
a
kitten and has plenty of power, it may miss every now and then, but
I
contribute that to spark plugs, and wires. I pulled the front three
out
to inspect them last weekend and they were looking a little worse
for
wear with a gap of about .050, the plug wires look as if they could
be
original, brittle feeling and ugly, I also did the electrolytics in
the
ECU, the 100MFD was looking nasty. Anyhow any advice will be taken
very
seriously!
TIA
Mark Shaffer, happy owner of the blue NA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:03:12 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
>> Don't you think Mitsu engineers would have increased the
>> injector timings in the idle/part throttle maps to make
the
>> car get the correct air/fuel ratio while the pump is in low
voltage mode?
NO. Absolutely not!
Trevor (and others), here is how the fuel flow works.
The fuel pump flows X amount of fuel every time its internal pump rotates.
The
internal pump rotates the fastest when there is the most voltage to it.
As
pressure in the fuel line increases (such as during boost), the pump must
work
harder, and therefore draws more current. When it draws more current on
the
circuit, the voltage (at the pump) goes down, and so the pump rotation
rate
slows and less fuel flows. Yes, I know it sounds counter-intuitive.
When we
need the most fuel, the pump flows the least. More info on our and
other fuel
pumps on my web page below.
There are two important points to remember. One, the fuel pressure
regulator
controls the fuel line pressure (to the best of its abilities);
all the pump
does is flow volume/mass. Two, the fuel pump output is in
proportion to the
supplied voltage.
At idle, the fuel line pressure is the lowest and so the voltage should be
the
highest at the pump and therefore the pump should flow the most fuel.
However,
at idle is when we need the least fuel. The FPR must return almost
all (99%)
of the fuel back to the tank to maintain the correct fuel line
pressure. The
Mitsu engineers reduced the stress on the FPR by reducing the
voltage to the
pump at idle (turbo models only) and so reducing fuel flow.
There is still
much more fuel supplied than needed (maybe 10-20 times as
much). There is no
need for the engine computer to compensate or adjust for
anything. At idle and
low load, the correct fuel-air ratio is set based
mostly on the feedback
information from the oxygen sensors in the exhaust
fittings. Internal "maps"
are NOT used! Much more info about this on my web
page below.
I hope this clears up these misconceptions regarding the interaction of the
computer and the fuel pump. The computer has no knowledge of fuel flow
because
fuel flow is never measured. Voltage in the circuit at the pump is
never
measured. Not even the fuel line pressure is measured. The computer
counts on
these components to be working at factory spec.
More fuel pump related web pages:
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday,
October 10, 2002 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V)
voltage at the fuel pump?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:30:37 -0700
From: "Robert Carson" <
rcarson1@bigred.unl.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
Tyson,
I had the same problem that you are now having with your
transfer case
right after I got my car back from my local Mitsubishi
dealership that blew
my engine. I fought about the new leak and the new
lifter tick for a month
before I was finally told in Nebraska's local court
that this leak and the
ticking is something that all our twin turbo's do even
with as few miles as
80,000. About one and half months of driving on my
leaky transfer case my
car locked up going down the road. I ended up
replacing the whole drive
train in my car including the flywheel and
clutch. I bought a new rebuilt
transmission and transfer case from
Phoenix Remanufactured Transmissions for
a cost of about $2500. I am
pretty sure that you could get it cheaper if
you sent your core back to them
but I decided to keep mine for when I go
back to court against the
dealership. In any case it only cost $650 to have
my whole drive train
put in at a quality transmission shop this includes
differentials and drive
shafts. My recommendation to you is to eat the cost
of the transfer
case for now so you don't have to go through all of the
hassles that I had to
go through.
Robert
1993 VR4
With lifter tick and smooth Transmission
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:52:45 -0400
From: Lawrence Lindgren <
lflindgren@fuse.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Fluctuating idle
I have a 1991 VR4 with a problem. After I drive for about 10-15
minutes,
the idle begins to fluctuate or hunt. It jumps from 1300 RPM to 1700
RPM
and back approximately every second for about 20 seconds. Then
it
settles in at 2000 RPM or 2500 RPM. It idles smoothly, just weirdly.
If
I shut the car down for a few minutes, it idles fine when I crank
it
back up, but then begins to hunt again after I drive for a few
minutes.
I have the manuals but couldn't find anything on point. I have
also
searched the archives, but again could not find anything on point. I
have
a manual boost controller set at 12 psi and an FIPK. Also a new
short
block and cleaned-up heads. Suggestions?
Larry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:48:14 -0400
From: "Payne, Scott" <
spayne@hunton.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Stealth For Sale
Selling 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo
Car is in Virginia near
Charlottesville.
Car has been covered since the day I bought it 5 years
ago.
Car has app 72k miles on it.
Belts changed at 60K (including
timing)
Pearl White
Mods include -
BLITZ Dual SBC-i
Y-Pipe
Down Pipe
high flow main cat
Gut pre-Cats
HKS Twin
Power ignition amplifier
NGK plugs
K&N Filter Charger
All work
done by Altered Atmosphere
Dyno'd at 316 HP at the wheels (AWD
remember)
Car is mechanically near perfect (needs front end
alignment)
Body is near perfect (one small ding on roof,minor rock
chips,etc..)
Interior is near perfect (cracked dash vents, right dash speaker
rattles so
I unplugged it)
You know these cars well, but if you have more questions feel free to
email
me directly at
Spayne@hunton.com
Offers being accepted now from this group before I Ebay it.
Why am I
selling my baby? Too many toys!! I have changed my mind on selling
many
times. Better grab it fast.
These are currently selling at 13k on Ebay
WITHOUT mods. I will take half of
mods cost for a total of $14,500 OBO
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:56:52 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Stealth For Sale
How did you manage to put 72K miles on it while it was covered since
the
day you bought it? (A little sarcastic humor!)
Have a nice weekend.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:59:35 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
but keep good documentation of all repair costs ... you may be able to
be
reimbursed later
- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Carson
Sent: Friday,
October 11, 2002 1:31 PM
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
Tyson,
I had the same problem that you are now having with your
transfer case
right after I got my car back from my local Mitsubishi
dealership that blew
my engine. I fought about the new leak and the new
lifter tick for a month
before I was finally told in Nebraska's local court
that this leak and the
ticking is something that all our twin turbo's do even
with as few miles as
80,000. About one and half months of driving on my
leaky transfer case my
car locked up going down the road. I ended up
replacing the whole drive
train in my car including the flywheel and
clutch. I bought a new rebuilt
transmission and transfer case from
Phoenix Remanufactured Transmissions for
a cost of about $2500. I am
pretty sure that you could get it cheaper if
you sent your core back to them
but I decided to keep mine for when I go
back to court against the
dealership. In any case it only cost $650 to have
my whole drive train
put in at a quality transmission shop this includes
differentials and drive
shafts. My recommendation to you is to eat the cost
of the transfer
case for now so you don't have to go through all of the
hassles that I had to
go through.
Robert
1993 VR4
With lifter tick and smooth Transmission
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:04:03 -0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
You lost me when you said that internal maps aren't used at idle and
part
throttle.
Programmed fuel and timing maps are used for both closed and open
loop
operation...only during closed loop operation the computer looks up the
fuel
map then adjusts it based on the O2 sensors.
Show me where I posted that the computer gets feedback from the pump
or
measures fuel flow. Didn't think so. What I was saying is that I'm sure
the
engineers that programmed the stock fuel maps were well aware of the
fuel
pump's lack of *relative* flow at the low voltage they chose to operate
the
pump at. The computer may have no knowledge of fuel flow but I guarantee
the
engineers that programmed it do.
Geeze.
Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:51:41 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
>> Programmed fuel and timing maps are used for both
closed
>> and open loop operation.
Sorry. Not for our cars - at least not the fuel "maps".
Trevor, please read through my web page below to improve your understanding
of
how the fuel injection works for *our* cars. Hey, I don't make this stuff
up.
It is straight out of Mitsu literature. :)
Also there is NO lack of "relative" flow or otherwise from the fuel pump at
idle. There is so much extra fuel that it makes almost no difference what
the
voltage is. One volt to the pump would probably flow enough fuel because
line
pressure is only ~34 psi and the injectors are operating at ~1% duty
cycle at
idle (less than 20 cc/min; that's ~0.67 ounces/min for you SAE
types!).
Voltage is lowered (turbo models only) to reduce wear on the pump
and permit
the FPR to work better.
Do I even need to mention that it is the *pressure* at the injector and the
injector activation time that determine the amount of fuel injected, not the
fuel flow rate from the pump (assuming flow volume is adequate)?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, October
11, 2002 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at
the fuel pump?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:56:09 -0700
From: "Robert Carson" <
rcarson1@bigred.unl.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Getting keyless entry put in my car
I found an alarm system from a newer 3000GT that comes with the
keyless
entry can I just switch out the control units and have key less entry
on my
car too or would there be other things that I have to do to get it
installed
on my car?
Robert
1993 3000GT VR4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:30:31 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Fluctuating idle
Having just been through solving a "weird idle" problem on my VR-4, here
are
some tips.
The fluctuation makes me wonder about your Idle Speed Control (ISC) -
a.k.a,
Idle Air Control (IAC) - motor. That's number one on the list
for idling
instability.
After the ISC motor, the list goes like this:
2) Injectors
3) Closed Throttle Position Switch
4) Fuel
Pressure
5) Intake Air Temp Sensor
6) Engine Coolant Temp Sensor
When the idle is not hunting, but just at the wrong speed, the list is
like
this:
1) Engine Coolant Temp Sensor
2) Closed Throttle Position Switch
3-7)
Various Load-Indicating Switches
8) ISC Motor
The test procedures of all of these items are found in section 13A of
your
service manual. This particular chart is on page 52 in my CD
copy. In my
paper manual it's on a different page. My problem
ended up being the Closed
Throttle Position Switch, but my idle didn't
hunt.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:03:34 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
Responding to a bunch of people - thanks for the ideas guys!
> I'm not so sure the rich condition you were seeing is the
>
fuel pressure regulator getting overrun.
The regulator is definitely getting overrun as I can watch it on my
fuel
pressure gauge... as soon as the flow goes up, the differential
pressure
approaches 45psi and stays glued there. It's the same behavior
as on
another car with a known FPR-overrun problem.
I'd have thunk that the closed-loop fuel control would correct the
problem
at part throttle (low load) and idle and that having slightly high
fuel
pressure at low flow conditions would be fine. Actually, my A/F
gauges read
right about 14.7 with a little fluctuation (although the EGTs
were low,
which reduces the accuracy of the gauge). However there was
DEFINITELY a
lot of smoke whenever the car was run at part throttle and
decent RPM
(3000+). When I went 50m from stoplight to stoplight in 1st
at 5000RPM (too
lazy to shift), I coated 3 lanes of traffic with thick gray
smoke. That was
embarrassing. That smoking *immediately* went
away when I reverted my fuel
pump back to stock voltage, so I can only assume
the smoke was from running
really rich. Maybe it did exceed the maximum
trim values in the ECU...
> This excess idle pressure is why I haven't done the rewire
>
yet. Someone on the 3SI forums is investigating doing
> the normal
rewire with the addition of $28 Hobbs switch
> from Napa.
Yeah, I didn't want to do the rewire for that reason, either. But
when I
started seeing the fuel pressure 12psi low under high-load conditions
and my
A/F gauge sometimes approaching 13.5:1m, I figured I needed to
do
something... I'm looking at other ways to rewire the circuit, too -
I'll
share in a sec...
> As pressure in the fuel line increases (such as during
> boost),
the pump must work harder, and therefore draws
> more current. When
it draws more current on the circuit,
> the voltage (at the pump) goes
down, and so the pump
> rotation rate slows and less fuel flows. Yes, I
know it
> sounds counter-intuitive.
I thought that might be the source of my lean/low-fuel-pressure problem,
but
in my case the wiring seems to be sufficient. I don't see the
voltage drop
by more than 0.2V, no matter how much fuel volume/pressure the
engine
requires. In fact, when using the 8ga wire from the output of
the fuel pump
relay to the pump, the voltage *increased* from 11.4V to 11.6V
at high
RPM/load. My guess is that the alternator voltage went up at
higher RPM,
but that's just speculation.
Jeff, or others who know our fuel system and ECU well... do the trim
values
(probably Long Term is more applicable) calculated in closed-loop mode
get
applied to the ROM-based maps when the car is in open-loop
operation? From
the webpage you mentioned and my experience with my
car, it sounds like they
don't. In any case, my car ran silly rich at
high load with the pump
hot-wired, so I don't think the ECU expects the
higher fuel pressure at high
load.
So my next thing to try is to directly connect the fuel pump output of
the
MFI relay to the fuel pump. By my calculations, this will give me
somewhere
very close to 12.5V at the pump at all times. That's higher
than the 11.0V
I see stock, and less than the 13.8V I see when
hotwired. This (12.5)
voltage may cause the pump to overrun the
regulator at low-flow conditions,
but it might not. It may also allow
the pump to maintain pressure in the
rail at high flow conditions.
We'll see :-)
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:38:02 -0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
How about another term for "maps." Maybe the term "look up tables"
will
click. I don't know why you can't grasp that there's a set of charts in
the
ROM and all the computer does is takes all the variable sensors
(MAF,
throttle position, coolant temp, O2, RPM, etc) and looks them up on a
chart
to arrive at an appropriate injector pulse width.
It's not voodoo Jeff.
Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:18:35 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: HKS SS BOV
Don't know if that sound sounds racey ....... or ricey. Took that
thing out immediately. They have a whole line of 'whistles'!
Gotta
wonder about a company that spends that much development money and
time
to make different, meaningless sounds from hot air!
Dennis -==- Philly
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tigran Varosyan <
tigran@tigran.com>
Date: Friday,
October 11, 2002 0:48 am
Subject: Team3S: HKS SS BOV
> This is just an FYI post for HKS SSQV/SS BOV owners.
>
>
I took mine apart today to polish it, replace seals, etc. When
> putting
back together purposely left out the whistle, which is
> the triangle
thing that looks like a Mercedes symbol inside of
> the front hole. I was
hoping to get more of a *WHOOOSH* sound
> like the Greddy. Went out
driving, turned off radio, rolled
> both windows down and could not hear
it. I was like "dang, I
> hooked something up wrong". Came to a stop,
played with the
> throttle cable under the hood, BOV working fine. Dumps
A TON
> of air but is super quiet.Went out driving again, this
time
> knowing what sound to listen for and I can barely hear it.
>
Matter of fact I can hear it better with the windows up. Not
> quite the
result I was looking for but interesting nonetheless.
> Not sure if I
like the new "stealthy" mode or if I will put
> the "ricey" whistle back
in...
>
> Just FYI for those who have it and want it quieter, the
whistle is
> held in by 8 Allen screws, super easy to remove. Maybe
later
> sometime I will play around with making my own whistle for
a
> custom sound...
>
> Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:21:25 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
Voodoo?
Trevor, I see you have still not read my web page or you simply fail to
grasp
the facts and the bigger picture.
"The basic injector driving time, also called the activation duration or
the
injector pulse width (IPW), is determined in three steps. First, the
basic
driving time is calculated using the volume airflow signal from the
Karman
vortex-style MAS and the engine speed determined from the CAS
signals. The
volume air flow divided by the engine speed determines the
engine load factor.
As volume air flow increases, injection duration
increases. As engine speed
increases, injector frequency increases. Second,
the basic driving time is
corrected (increased or reduced) based on input
from the oxygen, coolant
temperature, intake air temperature, and barometric
pressure sensors. Finally,
a battery voltage correction is applied. The flow
chart below summarizes the
interaction of components."
The points to note are these.
1. The computer first calculates a factor called "A/N", which basically
represents the volume air flow divided by the RPM. These two factors are
measured real-time. There is no need to use a "look-up" table when simple
assembly language statements on the chip will execute much faster than a
memory access. However, it is possible the programmers constructed a table
with all practical combinations of airflow and RPM - but unlikely, as will
explained later. This "A/N" value is used to determine a basic injector
activation time.
2. Correction factors are applied to the basic activation time. In open
loop
mode (heavy load or strong acceleration), a internal "map" is used to
modify
the activation time for best performance. In closed loop mode,
feedback from
the oxygen sensors in the exhaust fittings is used to modify
activation time
to maintain an A/F close to 14.7. After these two factors
are applied,
additional corrections are applied to compensate for engine
coolant
temperature (warmed-up / not warmed-up), air temperature (air
density),
altitude (air density), and battery voltage.
Now, again, could the programmers have constructed and used look-up tables
or
maps for all of these factors? Maybe. Maybe not. Why use a lookup table
when
you can compare actual battery voltage to a set value such as 13.5 (or
whatever)?
But let's return to the actual question. Are "maps" used?
In every publication and reference dealing with computer controlled fuel
injection, the term "map" refers to a spreadsheet-like table that is used to
look up a value. Usually RPM is along one direction (say the columns) and
airflow is along the other direction (say the rows). The cells contain
(usually) either the ignition timing advance value or the injector
activation
times. The key point here is that every cell does not contain
unique values,
nor is there necessarily a linear relationship between the
cell's value and
either RPM or airflow. That means that an increase in RPM
may cause an
increase in timing or a decrease in timing, or that the cells
may contain the
same value even though RPM or airflow are changing. It just
depends where you
are on the spreadsheet.
Now back to the basic injector activation calculation. Because the value,
by
its very nature, must be linearly related to airflow and RPM there is no
need
at all to construct a spreadsheet, map, or lookup table (whatever you
want to
call it). You simply divide one value by the other (though it is
likely a
little more complicated than that). The same reasoning applies to
the other
correction factors, which by nature must be linearly related
(battery voltage,
altitude, air temp) or somewhat binary (engine coolant
temp).
Hmmm, grasp that? :)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, October
11, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at
the fuel pump?
How about another term for "maps." Maybe the term "look up tables"
will
click. I don't know why you can't grasp that there's a set of charts in
the
ROM and all the computer does is takes all the variable sensors
(MAF,
throttle position, coolant temp, O2, RPM, etc) and looks them up on a
chart
to arrive at an appropriate injector pulse width.
It's not voodoo Jeff.
Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:41:30 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Help w/ Boost Controller Settings
Have only owned two turbo'd cars ........ my '93 VR4 and now my '97.
Not much experience with HP created from compressed air. All
from NA
Detroit iron. Made some minor engine modifications to my '97
VR4.
Usual suspects:
HKS BOV (w/out musical accompaniment)
Borla Cat-back
ATR dp with all
three cats in use
K&N air filter
Blitz boost controller
Everything else is stock: wires, plugs, fuel pump. Car/engine
currently has 50k miles on it.
Have no experience with the boost controller settings. I know the
physics behind all of this, but is no substitute for good 'ole
experience. Did dl the very nice how-to instructions from the team
site. Really much better than Blitz's instructions. Saved a ton
of
time. Ended up setting the controller to:
Gain = 8
Max = .85 bar
and the four ratios at 35, 40, 45, 50
(I'm currently running at 45)
Hadn't considered going much more aggressive till my 60k maintenance
when I could put in better plugs (re-gapped) and wires. The car
'feels'
a bit quicker, but that's strictly subjective. Spending all
that money,
you want to believe it did something, right? Yes, I know I
could have
gutted the cats and used the test pipe to gain a little
more. I
actually took a Stillen dp off to put the ATR on ......
Stillen was too
loud and I wanted to pass local emissions.
Are these settings reasonable, too conservative, all screwed
up. Would
like to get a good discussion going here (selfishly)
so I can learn
about all this.
Thanks in advance.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#969
***************************************