Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, October 10 2002 Volume
01 : Number 968
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Everyone,
I'm looking at a set of factory service manuals for my 92
Stealth on E-Bay, and I need some feedback. Is $79.00 + $4.95 shipping a
fair price for it? It includes both books, or could I do better elsewhere?
Thanks in advance, Dave Thrower 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:34:41 -0400
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Body shop in SF?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Baldwin" <
mbaldwin@alumni.tufts.edu>
>
Can anyone recommend a quality bodyshop in San Francisco? Has anyone
>
used any sort of "dent wizard" type repair? I have a cantaloupe
> sized
dent in my front driver side fender as well as major scratches
> on the
door.
> Thanks
- ---------------------->
I've used a couple of them - The name of one is "Dent Pro" and the results
were amazing. They work on site, too. Prices were way less
than body shop or detailer prices - I think I paid ~$300 for a dozen
"ding"-sized and medium dents. The dents they *can't* work on are
the ones with struts behind them. If it's just metal, they can fix
most of them.
They were recommended by the best detailer in the area (and the
most
expensive)-- Bay Cities Collision (in Burlingame). Here's the
latest info I have (all 415 area code): CHRIS JACOB runs a
(LOCATION) SERVICE for getting out small dents.
Office:
774-2121
Cell: 990-2023
Pager: 253-2669
Recommended By
Karen Freidt @ Bay Cities Collision
www.dentpro.com
Good luck!
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:11:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Service Manuals
Get the manual on CD. It's better than the book
version and cheaper
$29.99. You can zoom in or out
than print it out as big as you want. But it
take some
time to get used to browse it. Here's the link:
http://www.twingles.com/manualcd/
Anthony 92 VR4
- --- David Thrower <
repairerr@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> I'm looking at a set of factory
service manuals for
> my 92 Stealth on E-Bay, and I need some
feedback.
> Is $79.00 + $4.95 shipping a fair price for it? It
>
includes both books, or could I do better elsewhere?
> Thanks in
advance,
> Dave Thrower
> 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:26:02 -0400
From: "Rodriguez,
Elpidio x35617d1" <
x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
Is the turbo swap procedure included in these CDs? Thanks
RDZ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:49:30 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Driving, fog, pencil .............. all are determined by their beam
pattern, not color. The reason the Mitsu fogs (and they are fogs)
don't
work is that they are low wattage and mounted too low to throw the
beam
out far enough considering the top of it beam (or any fog for that
matter) should not be aimed above horizontal .......... or you'll get
bounce back ......... which defeats the purpose of a fog. The cut-off
of the factory fogs is OK ......... not straight as a razor like an
expensive aftermarket (like Cibie or Hella), but not bad.
PIAA makes an 85W replacement bulb for the fogs ........... VERY bright,
but doesn't address the real problem the low position. Used to only be
able to get it in Canada, may have changed since I bought mine. they
have entire line of bulb for the main and highs ......... in many color
temps.
Dennis -==- Philly
Darren Schilberg wrote:
>Roger,
>
>Mitsu calls their stock lights fog lights when
they are in fact driving
>lights. Do you want to put in fog lights
or driving lights? Fog
>lights are yellow/amber (in America) and
disperse under the fog or snow
>or rain in a wide beam and driving lights
are white and usually a
>projection beam or very bright beam. In
Italy however, headlights are
>yellow and I assume fog lights are also
yellow - but are their driving
>lights
white?
>
>--Flash!
------------------------------
A big thanks to all of you for your help. I bought them on E-Bay.
Later I will get the Backup CD, I'm just a little scared if all the
electrical system is on the CD, so I'm buying the hard copy first. Dave
Thrower 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:17:43 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Take a look at this site and give him a call --- he seems to know of what
he speaks.
Jim
Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Dennis Ninneman" <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Now for the
Fog/Driving Lights
> Driving, fog, pencil .............. all are determined by their
beam
> pattern, not color. The reason the Mitsu fogs (and they are
fogs) don't
> work is that they are low wattage and mounted too low to
throw the beam
> out far enough considering the top of it beam (or any
fog for that
> matter) should not be aimed above horizontal .......... or
you'll get
> bounce back ......... which defeats the purpose of a
fog. The cut-off
> of the factory fogs is OK ......... not straight
as a razor like an
> expensive aftermarket (like Cibie or Hella), but not
bad.
>
> PIAA makes an 85W replacement bulb for the fogs
........... VERY
> bright,
> but doesn't address the real problem
the low position. Used to only be
> able to get it in Canada, may
have changed since I bought mine. they
> have entire line of bulb
for the main and highs ......... in many color
> temps.
>
>
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:21:45 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Service Manuals
> Is the turbo swap procedure included in these CDs? Thanks
Yes. Pretty much everything you'd need to replace, test, or adjust is
covered in there somewhere.
Well worth the money.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:10:15 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Dennis,
Well my understanding was that fog lights are for use with low beam
headlights like when you do not want to bounce the high beams off the fog
or snow and back into your eyes. So when these "helper" lights go off
when you switch to high beams then they are fog lights. Driving
lights, on the other hand, are for use with high beam headlights to aid in
long distance visibility or spotting things in the roadway. Baja vehicles
have these amazing 5-mile lights that are on when they use high
beams. Rally cars (Merritt can add his stories) have illegally
high-powered lights with their own separate battery source for 500W of light
instead of the 100W we are allowed to buy and install (or whatever the
current state limit is for low and high beam and fog and driving lights
are).
Here in PA if your fog lights do not shut off when going from low to high
beam then you fail inspection and have to disconnect the fog lights.
If you install aftermarket lights then they need to be aimed correctly to
pass inspection (you aren't allowed to aim them in the driver's eyes for
example).
Fog lights are just supposed to cut under the fog or anything and
projection style lenses don't do this IMO since they let the beam going
all directions. Fog lights (lenses) stop the beam at a few feet high. My
stock fog/driving lights light up overhead road signs on highways when fog
lights are not supposed to go more than about three feet high (height of
eyes roughly).
Or to take an excerpt from the
http://lighting.mbz.org/ webpage, "A good
fog lamp has almost no upward light and a very sharp cutoff. (And a
well-placed fog lamp is mounted low to the ground, to maximize vertical
separation between the driver's eyes and the cutoff of the beam pattern, thus
throwing light "under" the fog blanket from the
driver's
perspective.) A fog lamp is not defined as "yellow", but as a
lamp that produces a very wide bar of light with minimal-to-no uplight and
a sharp horizontal cutoff, and the determinant of a good fog lamp is amount
of uplight (less is better) and sharpness of cutoff (sharper is better),
not beam color."
It is just more common to see yellow fog lights in K-Mart, Pep Boys, etc.
than the more expensive non-yellow PIAA or CIBIE ones.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Ninneman
Sent: Wednesday,
October 09, 2002 22:50
Subject: Re: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving
Lights
Driving, fog, pencil .............. all are determined by their beam
pattern, not color. The reason the Mitsu fogs (and they are fogs)
don't
work is that they are low wattage and mounted too low to throw the beam
out far enough considering the top of it beam (or any fog for that
matter) should not be aimed above horizontal .......... or you'll get
bounce back ......... which defeats the purpose of a fog. The cut-off
of the factory fogs is OK ......... not straight as a razor like an
expensive aftermarket (like Cibie or Hella), but not bad.
PIAA makes an 85W replacement bulb for the fogs ........... VERY
bright,
but doesn't address the real problem the low position. Used to only
be
able to get it in Canada, may have changed since I bought mine.
they
have entire line of bulb for the main and highs ......... in many color
temps.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:25:03 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
You paid $79 on ebay for a set of Stealth Service Manuals?
Prices below are for new manuals direct from DCP. Shipping is extra.
Daimler-Chrysler Publications
800-890-4038 M-F 8a-8p EST
$59: '91-'95 Stealth Service Manuals
$90: 1996 Stealth Service
Manual
$12: 1991 Stealth Body Repair Manual
$10: '91-'96 Owner's Manuals
Info above and more available on the GIANT Links Page at my web site, which
now has had over 100,000 visitors! :)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Thrower" <
repairerr@worldnet.att.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Service
Manuals
A big thanks to all of you for your help. I bought them on E-Bay. Later I
will get the Backup CD, I'm just a little scared if all the electrical
system is on the CD, so I'm buying the hard copy first. Dave Thrower
92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:43:04 -0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Transfer case recall FUBAR?
I keep reading all this garbage on 3SI about our POS transfer cases being
recalled. I call all the dealers in my area (Pacific NW) and they all have
no idea what I am talking about! On 3SI people posting about how they got
theirs swapped etc. Is this all BS? Guy at the dealer told me that my VIN does
not pull anything up ('92 VR4) for recalls and that he needs a recall
number. The message on 3SI that has been "Sticky" for like a year said
that an official recall has been made and that the recall order is propagating
through their dealer network. THAT WAS A YEAR AGO!!
I will drive anywhere, 500 mile distance to get this POS swapped! Its
leaking like a mother and dumps about half of it's fluid between oil
changes. I keep reading about people whom had em seize on the freeway and
that does not sound like fun!
HELP! Anyone have any info on this thing?
Tyson
------------------------------
> Baja
>vehicles have these amazing 5-mile lights that are on when
they use
>high beams. Rally cars (Merritt can add his stories) have
illegally
>high-powered lights with their own separate battery source for
500W of
>light
Almost right. Some Baja cars have rooftop mounted lights only because there
is no place to put them up front. In general, rooftop lights are a
complete waste, and virtually useless for a street car. They sure look
good to all the rubes out there, though. That's why you see them on Jeeps
and SUVs. Hicks.
A good pencil bean driving light can pick out a road sign at more than one
mile distance, but they are not much good for real driving. Neither are
fog lights. Both are useless.
The best light is a 10-in. driving light (not a pencil beam) that fully
illuminates the road 100 yards in front of the car. With six lights --
four headlights and two big driving lights, all with 100 W bulbs -- you
can light up the night.
Aux lights should be mounted at the same height as the headlights. This is
why you often see rally cars with an array of lights across the car. Any
other mounting locations are simply convenient, not correct.
The best fog/driving lights I ever had were a pair of 100W sealed beam
aircraft landing lights with a brim I made from aluminum flashing. The lid
physically prevented the light from going up. The mechanical cutoff was
superior to any lens on the market, and it was dirt cheap. When they got rocked
and broken by a car I was trying to pass, I replaced them with a set of
Marchal 10 in. lights, and used the same flashing to construct a
lid.
The only suitable place for aftermarket lights on our cars is in the
grille, but that's really too low to be truly effective. So, the only
solution I can see is to put the biggest lamp in there that will fit, and
power it with a 100W iodine-quartz or halogen bulb.
If you ever get a chance to spectate on a Pro Rally, you'll see real
competition lights at work. We spectated on the 1972 Press On Regardless
rally (the year before we ran it). We watched Yurpean works rally cars
come through a sweeping turn, then head off down a straight road, into the
teeth of a driving snowstorm. We could see what they could see: just 20 ft
in front of the car. They had all six lights a'blazing, lighting up the
snow into a pure white wall. We also heard them hit fifth gear way off in the
distance, driving at 120+ mph into a snowstorm, where they could only see
20 ft in front of the car. Finally, way out there, we heard the blip of a
throttle as they slowed for an upcoming turn. (Pace notes are wonderful). By
that time, the next car was coming through. We watched the top ten cars,
all Yurpean works cars, drive exactly the same way with the same light
configurations.
Say what you want about F1 and CART. The best and bravest drivers in the
world are WRC drivers.
Sigh. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:35:48 -0700
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
Dave...
Correct action, even though you may have overpaid for the hard copy. The
soft copy is legal as a backup ONLY if you already own the hard
copy.
Looking forward...Chris (Team3S Admin)
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Thrower
[mailto:repairerr@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:46
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
A big thanks to all of you for your help. I bought them on E-Bay.
Later I will get the Backup CD, I'm just a little scared if all the
electrical system is on the CD, so I'm buying the hard copy first. Dave
Thrower 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:20:07 -0700
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
I was given a copy of the CD manual by a friend.....go figure my CD-Rom
wont read it due to its age......I find the manuals very helpful in hard
copy form....cant exactly do a word search in the hard copy set but I
think I paid 80.00 shipped for the pair from Daimler Chrysler directly. That
sounds like a fair price but if you look harder you could find a good used
set for about 1/3 that price...3SXPerformance.com has used sets for sale
cheaper than that. Ebay is always good for deals....usually 25-45 constantly on
the manual sets. Anybody know where to find the Engine/Tranny rebuild one?
the third to the set of two :) I need that one.
bobk.
9399R/T
dead 2nd
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Winkley
Sent: Thursday,
October 10, 2002 8:36 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
Dave...
Correct action, even though you may have overpaid for the hard copy. The
soft copy is legal as a backup ONLY if you already own the hard
copy.
Looking forward...Chris (Team3S Admin)
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Thrower
[mailto:repairerr@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:46
PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Service Manuals
A big thanks to all of you for your help. I bought them on E-Bay.
Later I will get the Backup CD, I'm just a little scared if all the
electrical system is on the CD, so I'm buying the hard copy first. Dave
Thrower 92 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:24:09 -0400
From: "Dan Johnson" <
hiimdan74@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
The people that your reading about lately are in Canada, different rules
than the US. I did read about some US guys that have had there's
replaced, but I think it was something to do with a test case for
Mitsubishi where they were looking for a cause of the problem.
The other thing you should do is call the NTSB at (888) 327-4236 and file a
safety complaint if you're experiencing a leaking TC. Have your vin
ready.
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Sent: Thursday,
October 10, 2002 10:43 AM
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
> I keep reading all this garbage on 3SI about our POS transfer cases
> being recalled. I call all the dealers in my area (Pacific NW) and
> they all have no idea what I am talking about! On 3SI people posting
> about how they got theirs swapped etc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:03:31 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:43
AM
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
I keep reading all this garbage on 3SI about our POS transfer cases being
recalled. I call all the dealers in my area (Pacific NW) and they all have
no idea what I am talking about! On 3SI people posting about how they got
theirs swapped etc. Is this all BS? Guy at the dealer told me that my VIN does
not pull anything up ('92 VR4) for recalls and that he needs a recall
number. The message on 3SI that has been "Sticky" for like a year said
that an official recall has been made and that the recall order is propagating
through their dealer network. THAT WAS A YEAR AGO!!
I will drive anywhere, 500 mile distance to get this POS swapped! Its
leaking like a mother and dumps about half of it's fluid between oil
changes. I keep reading about people whom had em seize on the freeway and
that does not sound like fun!
HELP! Anyone have any info on this thing?
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:00:28 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Solenoid functionality & location
Hey folks,
I'm looking at messing with my boost pressure myself
(yes, i know, I will probably blow my engine up, but I'm going to try not
to :). I see what looks like 2 pairs of solenoids mounted at the top of
the engine bay against the firewall. I had expected the solenoids to
vent to atmosphere for high boost mode, then close (so the waste gate
reads manifold pressure) once the computer decided some boost pressure were
reached (say, I don't know... 11.5psi). As it appears these
solenoids connect all over the place, from the manifold to something else,
from the manifold back, etc. Can someone explain the configuration of the
stock solenoids and how they regulate the pressure going to the stock
waste gates?
In addition, Anyone know what 'A', 'M' and 'P' (I think) are on the top of
the manifold (near the throttle body)? several of the lines go in
(or out) there and I'm wondering what that is all about as well.
Thanx in advance!
geis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:09:22 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
I have video of the SCCA Pro Rally cars coming through the night at the
Susquehannock Trails (STPR) rally near Wellsboro, PA last year.
Amazing stuff. Pitch black - can't see your hand in front of your
face. Then you see some flashes of light a mile off and the lights
dance left and right as the car is taking the turns. Then about half
a mile away you can hear the car and some BOV action as the lights get
closer. It is nothing that could ever be described. Truly
awesome. That night it was raining and the dirt forest roads were
mud. These cars came around at 60 mph taking the hard ninety left in
front of us. Tiburon driven by Choiniere, WRX driven by Lovell,
great stuff. The light got brighter and brighter until you couldn't take
anymore. Then it got brighter somehow. Then they turned, slid,
accelerated, and chirped the BOV down the road approaching the next
turn. Then it was pitch black again. Great stuff. I have some video
clips if people want to see some.
Tech note: how much drain do auxiliary lights pull from the battery with
low beam, high beam, and stock fog lights on as well as the heater and air
conditioning? Is a second battery recommended like a small sealed
battery somewhere? Are 45W and 65W not much drain? Are the 85W and
100W bulbs a big drain?
I have an Optima Red Top battery at the moment so it can take full
depletions and get charged again. I would just hate to be out in the
back roads with awesome lights and then kill the battery from using all
the features.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:30:48 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <
brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Solenoid functionality & location
Answering my own question:
Go to Jeff's site:
www.stealth316.com Roger Gerl did a
great job explaining the system with pics and everything!
:)
Thanx Roger - nice explanation!
geis
------------------------------
>Tech note: how much drain do auxiliary lights pull from the battery
>with low beam, high beam, and stock fog lights on as well as the heater
>and air conditioning? Is a second battery recommended like a small
>sealed battery somewhere? Are 45W and 65W not much drain?
Are the 85W
>and 100W bulbs a big drain?
You have a choice between 55 and 100 W bulbs. I'd put 55 W into the
headlights, and 100 W bulbs into a good ($$$) set of driving lights. Trash
the toy junk that comes on our cars. This would be 100 + 100 + 55 + 55 +
55 + 55 = 420 W/12V = 35 A.
If our cars have at least a 50 A alternator, you should be OK. (I dunno
what we have).
If you ran all 100 W bulbs they would draw 50A, so you'd probably need a
70A alternator, which is what we ran on our rally car (Datsun 510).
Before we put the big alternator on, we would run the battery down on the
rally car's stock 45 A alternator. In those days, we could run on brown
lights until we got to a service halt and exchanged batteries (our crew
carried a spare, fully charged battery). These days, with computers being so
finicky about voltage levels, I wouldn't take the chance. You probably
would want plenty of reserve in the alternator. I guess 15 A more
than the lights draw would be enough.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Voltage draw / Lighting
Rich,
Great information, thanks for your knowledge.
Is the 55 x 4 for
the headlights?
ie... 2 dip and 2 high beams?
Do you know if there is much
more draw with the new
HIDs?
Does anyone in our group have HIDs in their
VR4?
Roger L
F15DOC
- --- "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net"
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
>
> You have a choice between 55 and 100 W bulbs. I'd
>
put 55 W into the headlights, and 100 W bulbs into a
> good ($$$) set of
driving lights. Trash the toy junk
> that comes on our cars.
> This
would be 100 + 100 + 55 + 55 + 55 + 55 = 420
> W/12V = 35 A.
>
> If our cars have at least a 50 A alternator, you
> should be
OK.
> (I dunno what we have).
>
> If you ran all 100 W bulbs
they would draw 50A, so
> you'd probably need a 70A alternator, which is
what
> we ran on our rally car (Datsun 510).
>
> Before we
put the big alternator on, we would run
> the battery down on the rally
car's stock 45 A
> alternator. In those days, we could run on
brown
> lights until we got to a service halt and exchanged
>
batteries (our crew carried a spare, fully charged
> battery). These days,
with computers being so
> finicky about voltage levels, I wouldn't take
the
> chance. You probably would want plenty of reserve
> in
the alternator. I guess 15 A more than the lights
> draw would be
enough.
>
> Rich
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Understanding Electricity
By the way, for some real solid basics on
electricity... ie. amps,
volts, etc
check out this webpage...
Good starting place for those that
want to learn more
about it....
Roger L
F15DOC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:24:12 -0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
That has been the case for quite some time now.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Starkey, Jr., Joseph
Sent:
Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall
FUBAR?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tigran Varosyan
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:43 AM
To:
TeamS3 (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case recall FUBAR?
I keep reading all this garbage on 3SI about our POS transfer cases being
recalled. I call all the dealers in my area (Pacific NW) and they all have
no idea what I am talking about! On 3SI people posting about how they got
theirs swapped etc. Is this all BS? Guy at the dealer told me that my VIN does
not pull anything up ('92 VR4) for recalls and that he needs a recall
number. The message on 3SI that has been "Sticky" for like a year said
that an official recall has been made and that the recall order is propagating
through their dealer network. THAT WAS A YEAR AGO!!
I will drive anywhere, 500 mile distance to get this POS swapped! Its
leaking like a mother and dumps about half of it's fluid between oil
changes. I keep reading about people whom had em seize on the freeway and
that does not sound like fun!
HELP! Anyone have any info on this thing?
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:30:05 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
Anyone actually looked into WHY the voltage at the pump is so low on many
3/S cars? Anyone else actually measured the voltage at other points
in the circuit or tested resistance of various parts of the fuel pump
circuit?
I've heard over and over from many 3/S owners that many stock cars have the
voltage at the fuel pump significantly lower than battery voltage -
usually around 11.0V. The common explanation I've heard is that the
wiring running back to the pump is insufficient (crappy wire, small gauge, etc.)
and that rewiring (hotwiring) the pump through a relay directly to the
battery nets 13.5+V at the pump and helps with fuel flow issues.
I made the mistake of running an 8ga cable directly from the output of the
fuel pump relay to the fuel pump and expecting it to increase my voltage
(would work if the wiring was the problem). It netted me a couple
tenths of a volt... that's it. I spent several hours doing this and was a
little ticked off. Thus I decided to do a little homework.
Here's the general circuit for how the fuel pump gets its power.
Beside each item, I will list the voltage in my car at normal operating
conditions:
Battery 13.8V
various fuses
junction blocks
voltage regulator?
Ignition Switch
IN ??
Ignition Switch OUT 12.55V
MFI Relay
IN 12.55V
MFI Relay OUT (to pump) 12.50V
Fuel
Pump Relay IN 12.50V
Fuel Pump Relay OUT 11.4V
Fuel
Pump Resistor IN 11.4V
Fuel Pump Resistor
OUT 8.6V
Fuel Pump IN 8.6V/11.2V (low/high
load)
Thus I get 8.6V to the pump at idle and 11.2V to the pump at high loads.
Also, most of my voltage drop is across the fuel pump relay. I
assume that the MFI relay receives a regulated output from the alternator
and that's why it's at 12.5V and almost never changes - is that the
expected voltage? It looks to me like the Fuel Pump Relay has a
significant resistance associated with it, and I don't know if that is designed
into the car or if it's a result of an aging relay. There's no
corrosion on the contacts or anything abnormal about the appearance of the
relay. However, that relay does get a lot of action (it switches every
time the engine load goes from low to high or high to low) and it is in a
pretty hot environment (under the fusebox in the engine bay). I
wonder if the relay is going bad? Anyone have a new one they could check
the resistance on? They're almost $40 new, so I don't just want to
go buy a new one if there's nothing wrong with mine.
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
P.S. As for the low fuel pressure symptoms I was seeing (differential
pressure dropping to 31psi at high flow conditions), wiring the pump to
the battery directly eliminated that problem. With 13.8V to the pump, it
held 43psi across the injectors all the way to redline with 0.8kg of
boost. The pressure never varied for more than a half-second and
even then, it only moved by 1-2psi. HOWEVER, with the pump at 13.8V, it
outflowed the stock regulator and gave me 50psi (differential) at idle and
low-flow cruising. This was enough to make it smoke pretty badly under
part-throttle cruising... pretty embarrassing. At WOT, the car ran silly,
stupid rich (8.5:1 to 10:1), but it felt smoother in the top end and my
EGTs dropped by 50C-80C. I'm wondering if getting a regulated 12.5V
to the pump might be a happy-medium that would allow the pump to flow enough
to maintain pressure and yet not flow so much as to overflow the regulator
and run silly rich.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
WHEN are you measuring it?
Most turbo cars have a system that increases voltage as boost
increases.
***
NEW Supra Product!
6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available
for MK3 supras NOW! Check out
http://www.speedtoys.com/bushings.html
for details. This is the only planned purchase -ever- of these, until
October 5th.
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:45:47 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Solenoid functionality & location
I'm trying to navigate Jeff's site and have yet to find anything remotely
related to the restrictor in the boost solenoid. I'm wondering if anyone
can lead me by the hand through the site to get to where Geis got.
Thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
At 01:30 PM 10/10/02 , you wrote:
>Answering my own
question:
>
>Go to Jeff's site:
www.stealth316.com Roger Gerl did a
great job
>explaining the system with pics and
everything!
>
>:)
>
>Thanx Roger - nice
explanation!
>
>geis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
Neat..ok..cool.
On the AllTrac, significant power gains are found by rewiring the relay for
full-time 12-14v operation..by default its too laggy for upgraded boost
levels.
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Gross, Erik wrote:
> > WHEN are you measuring it?
>
> I've measured it at
idle, at cruise, and at WOT. The voltages
> mentioned don't change
more than +/- 0.2V.
>
> > Most turbo cars have a system that
increases voltage as boost
> > increases.
>
> Good point,
Jeff. Yep - ours runs about 8.6V at idle and low loads by
> running
the power from the MFI relay (12.5V) through a resistor and
> then to the
pump. The fuel pump relay controls this feature and sends
> the
power through the resistor when the relay is energized (on).
>
>
When the ECU detects high loads, it shuts off the fuel pump relay
> which
allows power to go directly from the MFI relay to the fuel pump
> (but
still passing through the fuel pump relay's normally closed [NC]
>
contacts). The 11.0V I've been reading on my voltmeter and mentioned
> in my previous message is the high (stepped-up) voltage that is only
> used under high loads. There's no way for the ECU to make the voltage
> any higher than that in a 3/S.
>
> --Erik
***
NEW Supra Product!
6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available
for MK3 supras NOW! Check out
http://www.speedtoys.com/bushings.html
for details. This is the only planned purchase -ever- of these, until
October 5th.
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:44:21 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
> WHEN are you measuring it?
I've measured it at idle, at cruise, and at WOT. The voltages
mentioned don't change more than +/- 0.2V.
> Most turbo cars have a system that increases voltage as boost
>
increases.
Good point, Jeff. Yep - ours runs about 8.6V at idle and low loads by
running the power from the MFI relay (12.5V) through a resistor and then
to the pump. The fuel pump relay controls this feature and sends the
power through the resistor when the relay is energized (on).
When the ECU detects high loads, it shuts off the fuel pump relay which
allows power to go directly from the MFI relay to the fuel pump (but still
passing through the fuel pump relay's normally closed [NC]
contacts). The 11.0V I've been reading on my voltmeter and mentioned
in my previous message is the high (stepped-up) voltage that is only used
under high loads. There's no way for the ECU to make the voltage any higher
than that in a 3/S.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:51:36 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Solenoid functionality & location
I think I found it. I searched for Gerl under the articles.
Here is the URL it sent me to...
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
At 02:45 PM 10/10/02 , you wrote:
>I'm trying to navigate Jeff's site
and have yet to find anything
>remotely related to the restrictor in the
boost solenoid. I'm
> wondering if anyone can lead me by the hand through
the site to
> get to where Geis got. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:51:21 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
Ours only have a relay that comes on around 3000rpm. Until then the voltage
is only around )V and goes to batt voltage afterwards ... depending on the
good ground and cabling.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Friday, October 11, 2002 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Why do many have low
(11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
> WHEN are you measuring it?
>
> Most turbo cars have a
system that increases voltage as boost
> increases.
------------------------------
At 02:08 PM 10/10/02 -0700, Roger Ludwig wrote:
>Rich,
>Great
information, thanks for your knowledge.
>Is the 55 x 4 for the
headlights?
>ie... 2 dip and 2 high beams?
yes
>Do you know if there is much more draw with the new
>HIDs?
AFAIK, the same.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Voltage draw / Lighting
I thought it was actually less.
> At 02:08 PM 10/10/02 -0700, Roger Ludwig wrote:
>
>Rich,
> >Great information, thanks for your knowledge.
>
>Is the 55 x 4 for the headlights?
> >ie... 2 dip and 2 high
beams?
>
> yes
>
> >Do you know if there is much
more draw with the new
> >HIDs?
>
> AFAIK, the
same.
>
> Rich
***
NEW Supra Product!
6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available
for MK3 supras NOW! Check out
http://www.speedtoys.com/bushings.html
for details. This is the only planned purchase -ever- of these, until
October 5th.
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:13:49 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Why do many have low (11V) voltage at the fuel pump?
> Ours only have a relay that comes on around 3000rpm.
According to the STIM, p14-20, the ECU energizes the relay based on engine
load, so RPM is a component of it, but not the only factor - it’s airflow
per cylinder, per cycle. In any case, at WOT, it should go to the
“high” voltage at almost any RPM.
> Until then the voltage is only around )V and goes to
> batt
voltage afterwards ... depending on the
> good ground and cabling.
I assume that you meant “9V” when you said “)V” above :-) That’s
about what I see in my car at idle and low-load conditions. However,
according to the circuit diagrams, the fuel pump is powered through the
MFI relay, which does not get battery voltage in my car. I assume
it’s a regulated 12.5V, but I haven’t found that documented in the service
manual yet. Battery voltage in my car is 13.8V, which is much higher than
the output of my MFI relay.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:26:44 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Voltage draw / Lighting
Our european REAL Xenon lights draw 100W in short for igniting the Xenon in
the bulb and then 35 Watts for keeping it burning.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:20:43 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Now for the Fog/Driving Lights
Darren,
The secret to fogs ........ and you hit on it already, is height of
mounting and proper aiming. Best placement is high up but below the
base of the windshield. Then aim so the beam top cut-off is a hair
under the mounting height of the light itself. Now this statement the
lighting site makes ........ '(And a
well-placed fog lamp is mounted low
to the ground, to maximize vertical separation between the driver's eyes
and the cutoff of the beam pattern, thus throwing light "under" the fog blanket
from the driver's
perspective.)' Don't agree .... impractical and
unnecessary. As long
as the beam pattern is proper and nothing
approaches horizontal you've
minimized bounce-back. Simple geometry.
Nothing more than shining a
laser into a mirror, but as he says, more
scatter. On the rally cars
the roof mounted lights are driving/pencil
beams. Putting fogs up
there risks some bounce back in fog.
You're in PA?? I think its a national (NHTSA) rule that no
supplemental lights can burn while highs are on. Afraid of blinding
oncoming traffic ........ certainly not from our fogs ;-) The only
problem I have is with SUVs and pick-ups that sit so high their REGULAR
beams can blind you.
Do you have the projector headlights? If so, have you ever put your
low and high beams on a light board. They actually have an OK
pattern ........ flat on the left side and up at about a 60 degree
angle
on the right. Again just need some serious watts.
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1
#968
***************************************