Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, September 17 2002
Volume 01 : Number
955
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:01:32 -0700
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: For Sale :EGR block off plates very soon
I made these sets of
three for the EGR for 26.50 shipped on 3SI.org....I
will be making more and
will have them in 10 days time for the same price.
If interested send me a
private email for a request. They are made from
aluminum and are .375 thick
and CNC machined. I do not have EGR on my NA and
made these for a member and
figured with the CNC machine I might as well
make 25 sets.....turns out the
requests never stopped after I sold out. I
know that other sell these for
45-75 dollars and may or may not come with
all three plates. You will need
gaskets and bolts but the plates are
flawless quality.
bobk.
9399
R/T NA
dead 2nd gear :(
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:19:16
EDT
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Crash course in A-pillar gauges
Shame Shame SHame.. .
.
remember guys just because i dont have a TURBO does not mean i cannot
race an
N/A and win. I have a national 1/4 mile drag strip 2 miles from my
house, and
there are many different classes to enter and
win.
"install a clock" is not a cool idea. These gauges will be used. It
takes
time to upgrade these cars as every1 knows. I may not be as fast
as a VR-4,
but im not meant to be and im 10 grand cheaper. Just because i
have no turbo
does not mean my exhaust cannot get hot after a day at the
track. its always
a good idea to monitor your car.
Just cuz it doesnt
go as fast doesnt mean i care about it any less.
- -mike
97
SL
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:14:55
EDT
From: <
pedenkoa@msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
For Sale :EGR block off plates very soon
Just wanted to say that I got a
set of these from the last batch - they were
flawless. Everything lines up
right, looks good, etc...
Just my .02
Alex
'95
Vr4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:15:47
-0500
From: AINut <
ainut1@telocity.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Nasty tire wear
I hope you guys can give me some good guidance on
this problem on a 1994 Mitsu
3000 VR-4.
1. Previous tire sets
generally lasted about 20k miles before the insides of the
tires would wear
down to where the air was showing. I had alignments done,
front ends
checked, and etc. and the mechanics all said that my struts and
shocks were
bad.
2. Last Thanksgiving, I replaced all struts, shocks and brake pads,
had the 4
wheel alignment performed yet again, had all 4 rotors turned, and
put brand new
Yokohama AVS dB's all around.
3. In January,
someone decided to run a red light and smack into my front end,
causing over
$6,000 in damage. Quality Body Shop of Huntsville, Alabama did
the
"repair work" and royally screwed up everything visible in this repair
job,
including fenders out of alignment, vibrating hood, rubber around
both
headlights sticking up into the air, and more. These problems are
being
addressed and may wind up in court. During this "repair," the
frame was
"straightened" and a "4 wheel alignment" was performed by
Quality(less.)
4. Here it is less than a year later, with less than
10,000 miles on the tires,
the air on the innermost tread is again worn
almost through. The rest of the
tires are showing hardly any wear and
have barely any tread worn away. Now, the
tires are completely useless
and I'll have to get yet another set and get them
mounted and balanced,
etc.
5. A month ago, I had the car aligned at a different shop, who said
that the
frame is bent and they can't align the passengers side rear tire to
within
spec. I had them document the alignment as they found it and as
they left it,
along with their observation that the frame is crooked.
However, I don't know
if that shop knows about the extra steps needed on a
VR-4.
So my question is -- what is wrong with my car and how do I stop it
from eating
tires every 10k miles???
Thanks,
AI
Nut
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:38:37
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
Hmm, I'd more say that
also a 7.0 earthquake in Zurich, Switzerland is
possible ... also a factual
point of view, it can happen. But it never did
until today (uff, we are
lucky).
The probability factor become smaller the less an action happens
in series.
If there is no bad case out of a large sample then the
probability is
pretty low. Otherwise you can be sure I wouldn't install an
UDP but I did 2
years ago ... nada problemo :-)
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.chAt 17:13 16.09.2002
-0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
>..and Im yet to see a 7.0 earthquake here in
San Jose.
>
>
>Doesnt mean it wont happen, because from a
factual point of view..it
>-will.
>
>On Tue, 17 Sep 2002,
Roger Gerl wrote:
>
> > Short V-engines are not so prone to
damages through the lack of a harmonic
> > dampener. Till today, no 3S
car had any damage from an underdrive
> > non-dampening pulley... one
thing our engines seem not to have a problem
> > with :-) Knock is much
more an issue than any UDP and we can be lucky for
> > this little
advantage.
> >
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
>
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 06:39:59
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
OK I am going to go on
a tirade now.......... Anyone running a non
dampened pulley have
you pulled you engine apart (particularly where the
main bearings
are?
Reason I ask is DaveBuschuar (sp) of DSM fame was running the
UR pulley on
his street/track talon and after one drag racing season plus the
regular
driving of the car he did, his main bearings were pounded to
shit. He even
posted pics at one point (not sure where they are) when
this was a hot topic
on the MKIV list.
After seeing those pics
I WILL NEVER USE AN UNDAMPENED PULLEY on any of my
cars end of
story
Oh BTW that article is from the Canadian Supra crowd and was
posted by one
of their guru's (Reg Reimer), his suggestions are based on
engine longevity
even if it means a loss of few HP (he is an avid road racer
and competed in
One Lap of America several times)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
[mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Mon 9/16/2002 6:48 PM
To:
Geddes, Brian J
Cc:
Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
That would
stand as valid engineering for -any- car with a crank damper.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:51:35
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
I think there will always
be the people who go more on evidence of
breakage...than enginebuilding
science AND evidence (see: Buschur's
breakage/hammered bearings on
Mitsubishi/DSM 4 cylinder).
How important is your engine's happiness and
safety? Boeing could use that
theory too...we can use cheap wiring in
the fuel tanks, because though it is
poor science, it never melted and blew
up planes YET...oh yeah, it HAS
melted/blown up planes ENOUGH now that they
are fixing it. How MUCH
breakage is ENOUGH for US? Clearly most
Boeings, and short crank 3SI
engines, can "get away with" cheap
wires/undampened UD pulleys for awhile,
and some planes/cars get away with it
FOREVER.
It is inconsistent to then complain about "ooooh, KNOCK COUNTS of
20, turn
the boost to 15psi or below forever!" when "MANY PEOPLE have had
their
engines survive no problemo" on 93 octane pump gas at 18-20 psi
for
years...when turning the boost up from 15psi to 18-20 adds WAAAAY more
hp
than a UD 5 hp pulley.
Again, I guess we all just have our levels of
what punishment-vs-performance
we will give our engines. That's
ok.
For the SCIENCE of UNdampened UD pulleys, this is about the best
article
I've seen, by Steve Dinan. Read it--understand it--THEN decide
for
yourself, and if you THEN get a UD pulley you can honestly ADMIT it
IS
damaging but you have accepted that level of engine unhappiness.
http://www.dinanbmw.com/html/danger_of_power_pulleys.htmJT
>
Hmm, I'd more say that also a 7.0 earthquake in Zurich, Switzerland is
>
possible ... also a factual point of view, it can happen. But it never
did
> until today (uff, we are lucky).
> The probability factor
become smaller the less an action happens in
series.
> If there is no
bad case out of a large sample then the probability is
> pretty low.
Otherwise you can be sure I wouldn't install an UDP but I did
2
> years
ago ... nada problemo :-)
> Roger 93'3000GT TT
> Geoff Mohler
wrote:
> >..and Im yet to see a 7.0 earthquake here in San
Jose.
> >Doesnt mean it wont happen, because from a factual point of
view..it
> >-will.
> > > Short V-engines are not so
prone to damages through the lack of a
harmonic
> > > dampener.
Till today, no 3S car had any damage from an underdrive
> > >
non-dampening pulley... one thing our engines seem not to have
a
problem
> > > with :-) Knock is much more an issue than any UDP
and we can be lucky
for
> > > this little advantage.
> >
> Roger 93'3000GT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:06:12
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Nasty tire wear
Only thing I can see that you haven't changed
that could affect tire wear
are the wheel bearings. I'm assuming you
have stock springs and struts.
I would really want to find a good
alignment shop, maybe one that only does
alignments.
Chuck
Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: AINut
[mailto:ainut1@telocity.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:16 AM
To:
3000tech; 3SI List
Subject: Team3S: Nasty tire wear
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:33:35
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
-
--------------snip------------->
> For the SCIENCE of UNdampened UD
pulleys, this is about the best article
I've seen, by Steve Dinan. Read
it--understand it--THEN decide for yourself,
and if you THEN get a UD pulley
you can honestly ADMIT it IS damaging but you
have accepted that level of
engine unhappiness.
>
http://www.dinanbmw.com/html/danger_of_power_pulleys.htm>
JT
- -------------------------------->
And for a summation of
(many) previous discussions about UD pulleys on the
Team3S list, see Cody's
article (and Jack's more-detailed comments) in our FAQ
pages:
www.Team3S.com/FAQudp.htm-
--Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:39:46
+0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
> I think
there will always be the people who go more on
> evidence of
breakage...than enginebuilding science AND
> evidence (see:
Buschur's breakage/hammered bearings
> on Mitsubishi/DSM 4
cylinder).
Interestingly enough, I personally think the "it hasn't
broken yet" crowd is in denial about the failure rate.
Since the
underdrive pullies have become available it
seems like I'm hearing about WAY
more spun bearings than
we used to hear about before the UDPs became
available.
Every legitimate engine builder I've ever talked to,
except for the import auto crowd (mostly Hondas), shuns
these things, I
don't understand how import motors are
magical and don't require crank
damping.
But hey, its your motor so what do I care? Just make an
informed decision before you buy one of these things,
and know the
potential risks.
A motor is a terrible thing to waste.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:53:18
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
Matt Amen, in
all honesty though Bob brought up a good point CHECK
THE FAQ pages before
asking a question you think may have been covered
before. Although I
must say the manner in which it was mentioned was
executed flawlessly
;)
Oh and remember to edit the previous post before replying to
the
list, the digest folks may go crossed eyed if they read the same post
40
times :)
Russ F
CT 93VR-4 with the blow motor mod (not
related to UDP's, but motor
mounts instead)
<snip>
>
Just make an informed decision before you buy one of these things,
> and
know the potential risks.
>
> A motor is a terrible thing to
waste.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:27:18
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
But theres still a
possibility..when theres an accepted proper way to do
the same thing the
unorthadox product looks pretty foolish.
Not calling YOU a fool
however. :)
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
> Hmm,
I'd more say that also a 7.0 earthquake in Zurich, Switzerland is
>
possible ... also a factual point of view, it can happen. But it never did
> until today (uff, we are lucky).
>
> The probability
factor become smaller the less an action happens in series.
> If there is
no bad case out of a large sample then the probability is
> pretty low.
Otherwise you can be sure I wouldn't install an UDP but I did 2
> years
ago ... nada problemo :-)
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> At 17:13 16.09.2002
-0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
> >..and Im yet to see a 7.0 earthquake here
in San Jose.
> >
> >
> >Doesnt mean it wont happen,
because from a factual point of view..it
> >-will.
> >
>
>On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
> >
> > > Short
V-engines are not so prone to damages through the lack of a harmonic
>
> > dampener. Till today, no 3S car had any damage from an
underdrive
> > > non-dampening pulley... one thing our engines seem
not to have a problem
> > > with :-) Knock is much more an issue
than any UDP and we can be lucky for
> > > this little
advantage.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > 93'3000GT
TT
> > >
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:38:03
-0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <
Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: please help
If you are low on oil, or running way too rich.
These can cause it also.
If your cylinder wall are torn up, you'll be looking
at a complete
rebuild or a new short block.
Curtis McConnell
Pulte
Mortgage
(800) 426-8898 x-3591
Fax (303) 740-3591
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.com
[mailto:M3000GTSL84@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:03 PM
To:
team3s@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
please help
A spun bearing is most likly caused by revving the hell out
of a cold
engine.
Dont do this.
I think Curtis is right, but what
aboutthe cylinder walls, could they
have
been scratched at all?
-
-mike
97 SL
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:37:35
-0500
From: "Jim Buckner" <
JimBuckner@multipro.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
Subject: engine problem!
urgent!
I wrote a few weeks ago about a knock, sounded like a
rod. Let me fill you
in on the whole story, and maybe some of you guys
can help me out.
I took my 92 VR4 to a new Mitsubishi dealership for the 60K
service, at
120k. They replaced all belts, including timing belt.
They did some kind
of service, a solution they put in the upper end to clean
out deposits, etc.
When I picked up the car, one of the turbos made a whine,
like a cop siren
from a distance. Every so often, I heard another
noise, like a fan with bad
bearings winding down, or like a vacuum with shot
bearings, when you turn it
off, the rpms drop, and the bearing binds.
The car ran poorly, lowered
acceleration. I took it back. They
said the new timing belt tensioner was
bad, causing it to jump time. I
picked it up, it just barely made it out of
the parking lot, NO power,
missing, bucking, backfiring, worse than the
weakest car I ever drove.
I turned around, took it back. Picked it up the
third time, again, they
said it had jumped time. I drove it for about 1
week, still poor
performance, but could not do without the car. Then it
started
knocking. I shut it down immediately. Had it towed another
dealer,
he listened to it, said it was to serious, and would need a new short
block.
Then I took it to an independent, trustworthy guy. He opened it
up. Rod
bearings have spun, wiped out the crank, pieces of valve guides,
pieces of
lifters, other misc. junk in the oil pan. He says its shot,
not worth
rebuilding. My questions:
1. Anyone else had a
similar experience with a dealer?
2. The independent says replacing the
timing belt incorrectly, not holding
the cam in the right position with a
special tool can drive valves into
pistons, bend valves, lifters, and the
solution they used in the intakes and
manifold, when not injected properly,
and fill a cylinder, hydraulically
lock it up, and when started would
bend/break a rod. Again, anybody?
3. What are my options, where
could I find a rebuild, (no Jaspers), a used,
and where, or sell off for
parts and start over. Body is mint, repainted
because of fading.
Everything works.
I love this car more than anything I have ever had, even
Porches. You guys
are the best, the experts. Help me out.
Jim
Buckner
jimbuckner@multipro.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:42:19
-0400
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
Shine, yes,
smooth no. Smoothness is caused by excessive wear between
the walls and the
piston. Really, it should not be a mirror finish, more
shiny metal.. with a
crosshatch type feel to it when you run your
fingernails over it.
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Willis, Charles E.
Sent:
Monday, September 16, 2002 4:20 PM
To: 'SHANNON'; Willis, Charles E.;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S:
Detonation@3,000
rpm+misc.
As Philip so aptly noted, if the cylinder walls were not shiny,
the
piston
rings would not provide much of a seal. Even if the cylinder
walls start
out
not so shiny, a few hours at several thousand rpms will
make them shiny.
There is a tool for "honing" cylinder walls to remove the
glaze from
them.
Sometimes when you take the head off an engine block,
there is glaze
sticking up into the area of the cylinder where the head is,
and you
have to
knock this off before reinstalling the
head.
Somebody at the dealer is yanking your chain.
"The only
reason I think it's detonation is because that is what the
dealer
said was
occurring previously and these are the exact same symptoms.
I
did
take a look at the cylinder walls when it was taken apart and there
was
a
lot of shine on the walls which apparently, is a sign of
detonation."
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:58:36
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
Jim first and foremost, get
all your copies of receipts together and any
other documentation you have
proving that prior to their "services" you car
was working in good form and
what you requested was preventative
maintenance.
secondly speak
directly with the service manager's supervisor and try to see
if they will
pay another dealer to replace the entire longblock (that is the
shortblock +
heads complete)
If the above doesn't work then go directly to Mitsu
customer service, if
that doesn't work, take them to arbitration of the
denial for warranty work.
If all of the above fails, TAKE THE F*CKER$
TO COURT.
end of discussion.
Russ F
CT
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Buckner
[SMTP:JimBuckner@multipro.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 1:38
PM
> To:
Team3S@Stealth-3000GT.st>
Subject: Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
>
>
>
1. Anyone else had a similar experience with a dealer?
> 2.
The independent says replacing the timing belt incorrectly, not
>
holding
> the cam in the right position with a special tool can drive
valves into
> pistons, bend valves, lifters, and the solution they used in
the intakes
> and
> manifold, when not injected properly, and fill a
cylinder, hydraulically
> lock it up, and when started would bend/break a
rod. Again, anybody?
> 3. What are my options, where could I
find a rebuild, (no Jaspers), a
> used,
> and where, or sell off for
parts and start over. Body is mint, repainted
> because of
fading. Everything works.
> I love this car more than anything I
have ever had, even Porches. You
> guys
> are the best, the
experts. Help me out.
> Jim Buckner
>
jimbuckner@multipro.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:24:21
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Fw: '94 TT for sale in Wash, DC by Marine Officer
For sale by one of "The
few, the proud..." attached to the Pentagon,
Washington DC
1994
Stealth RT/TT Yellow
Newer Goodyear 245/45ZR17 Eagles
Recent Brakes, Water
Pump, Timing Belt/Trunnion
Loaded, Immaculate, Straight, Tight, and
FAST
112k miles, $10,500 Or Best Offer
Small photos at:
www.Team3S.com/Images/kovachs-tt1.jpgwww.Team3S.com/Images/kovachs-tt2.jpgPlease
Reply (off list) directly to:
LtCol Philip R Kovachs--
APP-34 (Reserve
Aviation Plans Officer)
HQMC, Aviation Department
(540) 548-1091
phira775@yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:37:41
-0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
I can tell you from replacing
the timing belt myself on my 91 Stealth TT
that the independent is absolutely
right on with Point No. 2. When you
align the timing marks on the DOHC
motor, the cam sprockets are under
intense spring pressure. If you
don't hold them correctly, they spring
back quite violently (it happened to
me ONCE while replacing my
belt--luckily no damage).
Also,
aligning the timing marks with the belt and properly setting
the
auto-adjuster on the DOHC engine is very tedious. If you don't do
it
right, and follow the service manual points to a tee, your belt
will
jump. In fact, if you don't read the service manual correctly
(and
place the belt on the crank with the crank retarded one tooth),
the
timing will be off, guaranteed. Rushing the job will result in a
jumped
belt, guaranteed. If you had a mechanic that was more interested
in
preserving his flat-rate time than doing a good job, I'd bet he
rushed
the job.
Also, the Mitsu dealer should not have re-used the old
auto-tensioner.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Mitsu recommend changing
the
auto-tensioner with the belt? Did they recommend to you that
you
replace the tensioner? I'd be especially inclined to replace it on
your
car since the 60K service was being performed at 120K (was it
also
performed at 60K?)
The solution they added to your car is part of
a TSB that discusses
"ticking" sounds coming from the engine
compartment. The cause is
carbon deposits on the pistons, and the
solution is to use the solution.
I don't know how the solution is applied
since I never had that problem
(knock on wood), but my guess is that it was
simply a gasoline additive.
I'm sure others will correct me if I'm
wrong.
Hydraulic lock-up can also be caused by a mis-timed
engine. I think the
dealer screwed up the timing belt job and your
engine was out of time.
I'd raise holy-hell, Jim. Assuming your car ran
fine before it went in,
you probably have a great case against the dealer for
a comparable
engine (that is, an engine with 120K miles on
it).
Joe
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Buckner
[mailto:JimBuckner@multipro.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 1:38
PM
To:
Team3S@Stealth-3000GT.stSubject:
Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
Subject: engine problem!
urgent!
I wrote a few weeks ago about a knock, sounded like a rod.
Let me fill
you
in on the whole story, and maybe some of you guys can help
me out.
I took my 92 VR4 to a new Mitsubishi dealership for the 60K service,
at
120k. They replaced all belts, including timing belt. They did
some
kind
of service, a solution they put in the upper end to clean out
deposits,
etc.
When I picked up the car, one of the turbos made a whine,
like a cop
siren
from a distance. Every so often, I heard another
noise, like a fan with
bad
bearings winding down, or like a vacuum with
shot bearings, when you
turn it
off, the rpms drop, and the bearing
binds. The car ran poorly, lowered
acceleration. I took it
back. They said the new timing belt tensioner
was
bad, causing it to
jump time. I picked it up, it just barely made it
out of
the parking
lot, NO power, missing, bucking, backfiring, worse than the
weakest car I
ever drove. I turned around, took it back. Picked it
up
the
third time, again, they said it had jumped time. I drove it
for about 1
week, still poor performance, but could not do without the
car. Then it
started knocking. I shut it down immediately.
Had it towed another
dealer,
he listened to it, said it was to serious,
and would need a new short
block.
Then I took it to an independent,
trustworthy guy. He opened it up. Rod
bearings have spun, wiped out the
crank, pieces of valve guides, pieces
of
lifters, other misc. junk in the
oil pan. He says its shot, not worth
rebuilding. My
questions:
1. Anyone else had a similar experience with a
dealer?
2. The independent says replacing the timing belt incorrectly,
not
holding
the cam in the right position with a special tool can drive
valves into
pistons, bend valves, lifters, and the solution they used in the
intakes
and
manifold, when not injected properly, and fill a cylinder,
hydraulically
lock it up, and when started would bend/break a rod.
Again, anybody?
3. What are my options, where could I find a rebuild,
(no Jaspers), a
used,
and where, or sell off for parts and start
over. Body is mint,
repainted
because of fading. Everything
works.
I love this car more than anything I have ever had, even
Porches. You
guys
are the best, the experts. Help me
out.
Jim Buckner
jimbuckner@multipro.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:30:30
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FW: engine problem! urgent!
Hie thee to an
attorney.
Do not pass go. Do not collect $200
Go directly to an
attorney.
Rich
>Subject: engine problem!
urgent!
>
>Then I took it to an independent, trustworthy guy.
<snip> The independent says replacing the timing belt incorrectly, not
holding
>the cam in the right position with a special tool can drive
valves into
>pistons, bend valves, lifters, and the solution they used in
the intakes and
>manifold, when not injected properly, and fill a
cylinder, hydraulically
>lock it up, and when started would bend/break a
rod.
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:49:00
-0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: checking resistance of coils, wires
Hello team3S
I have
been having some problems with my car ('91 R/T tt) dying at idle, or
under
rapid rpm decelarations (such as pushing the clutch in). I made
a
different post asking about that. The manual said that the coils or
wires
could be the cause of that. Anyways, I took off the coils and the
front
plug wires and took them down to my local Autozone (I don't have
an
ohm-meter) to get them checked. They checked the secondary
resistance, and
they were all pegged at around 13.3 or so, well in range of
spec (11.31 -
15.30).
How do I check the primary resistance? In
the cd manual, it has a little 4
square thing where you hook up one of the
ohm-meter leads to the #3 and then
check the #2 for coil A, #1 for coil B,
and #4 for coil C. I don't know
where this is at??
My second
question is about resistance of the plug wires. For plug wire #1,
it
checked out at 6.8 (manual says 8.6), #3 checked at 7.6 (spec = 6.4),
#5
checked at 3.7 (spec = 4.5). Do these seem fine? The wires are
less than a
year old, but it was a little after I had the front ones replaced
that the
issues started popping up. I had Jacobs Electronics wires and
bought a
spark plug cover which wouldn't fit with the fatter JE wires, so I
replaced
the front ones first, then a little while ago the rear
ones.
Is there any other way to check if the coils are working other than
checking
the primary and secondary resistances?
thanks for any help
:)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:56:05
-0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
Hello,
This has
been going on for a while now, and really makes me hate my car ('91
R/T
tt). As the title suggests, if the rpms drop rapidly (for
instance,
when pushing in the clutch pedal while driving), then they keep
dropping all
the way to 0. Also, the car at idle will sometimes be
idling fine, then all
of a sudden die. It will sometimes hunt a little
up and down .... sometimes
it will then steady and all is well, but sometimes
it will drop too low on
one of its "hunts" and the car will
die.
Things I have replaced in the last year or so since this has been
happening
that have not solved the problem (some to try to solve this, some
for other
reasons):
1. replaced all vacuum lines
2.
replaced IAC
3. replaced alternator, alternator belt,
battery
4. replaced capacitors on ECU
5. new plugs,
wires
6. new fuel pump, injectors
7. replaced MAS with the VPC
setup
I may be forgetting some other things also.
I have another
post asking about how to check the primary resistance of the
coils, to see if
the coils are possibly bad, which the manual says is one of
the things to
check for this.
thanks for any help,
Bill
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:52:52
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Non-member has Red '91 RT for sale - Toronto
DODGE STEALTH R.T.
Model
Year: 1991 (Canadian Model: 1 Kilometer = 0.62 Miles)
VIN:
JB3XD64B2MY013097
Color: Red
Photos:
www.Team3S.com/Images/FrontSideView.jpgwww.Team3S.com/Images/RearSideView.jpgPurchase
(by my step Father - Don Coscina): November 6, 1993
Vendor:
Ontario Plymouth Chrysler Ltd.
Mileage: 42,975 km (26,645 mi)
Current
Mileage: ~138,500 km (85,870 km)
Maintenance History:
www.Team3S.com/Maintenance-91StealthRT.docLocation:
Toronto, Ontario - currently in garage, garaged throughout
winters, lady
driven last few years
Tires: Alloy Wheels, Michelin Tires
Other
Features: CD, Cassette, AC, ABS, Cruise, Power Locks, Windows,
Folding
Rear Seats, Spoiler
Asking Price: $6,500 USD
Very well maintained
and in excellent condition! Please see for
yourself in the photos
attached.
- ---------------------
Reply privately to Lenore:
ldeffner@ftlon.fruit.comBest,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:19:53
-0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <
Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Boost w/ bigger turbos and stock fuel.
I was reading on 3si.org
and someone has the GT Pro 367 Magnums
(comparable to the dr 650's, not sure
if they're 367, 368 anyway....)
with a Supra fuel pump and is running 15 psi.
Can I run out, get some 15g's, a Supra pump and run 15 pounds?? Here
in
Denver (5800ft) can we run more due to the air being
thinner?
Thanks,
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4
Spyder
Stillen Intake
Borla Exhaust
Custom downpipe/ no cats
HKS EVC
IV
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:49:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
ECU fixed
Thanks to Jeff Lucius and his valuable info. I took
out the
ECU and changed the leaking capacitor. Some
liquid in black leaks out on the
board and causing the
fuel pump on & off. It only take about 15 mins to
take
out and 10 to put back. Highly recommended for 1st gen
cars. Again,
thanks Jeff!
Anthony
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:54:50
-0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
I have the exact
same symptoms on my '94 VR-4. I assumed mine was a faulty
IAC but
didn't want to spring for a new one until I paid for some other
parts, so I
simply unplugged the IAC. The car now idles high (1000 RPM at
startup,
1500 once warmed up) but all the other symptoms have disappeared.
I'll track
down the root cause at some point, but unplugging has been a good
bandaid in
the mean time.
- - Brian
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Bill vp [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September
17, 2002 11:56 AM
> To: team3/S
> Subject: Team3S: car dying at idle
and rapid rpm dropping
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This
has been going on for a while now, and really makes me
> hate my car
('91
> R/T tt). As the title suggests, if the rpms drop rapidly
> (for instance,
> when pushing in the clutch pedal while driving),
then they
> keep dropping all
> the way to 0. Also, the car
at idle will sometimes be idling
> fine, then all
> of a sudden
die. It will sometimes hunt a little up and down
> ....
sometimes
> it will then steady and all is well, but sometimes it will
> drop too low on
> one of its "hunts" and the car will
die.
>
> Things I have replaced in the last year or so since this
has
> been happening
> that have not solved the problem (some to
try to solve this,
> some for other
> reasons):
>
>
1. replaced all vacuum lines
> 2. replaced IAC
>
3. replaced alternator, alternator belt, battery
> 4. replaced
capacitors on ECU
> 5. new plugs, wires
> 6. new fuel
pump, injectors
> 7. replaced MAS with the VPC setup
> I may
be forgetting some other things also.
>
>
> I have another
post asking about how to check the primary
> resistance of the
>
coils, to see if the coils are possibly bad, which the manual
> says is
one of
> the things to check for this.
>
> thanks for any
help,
> Bill
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:01:08
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Exhaust - okay to leave one pre-cat
Thanks everyone for your help on this
thread. I placed my order with Dynamic
Racing (stillen dp, atr single shot
exhaust, high-flow cat) and plan on
leaving the rear pre-cat
in.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
awaiting a real exhaust
:)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:04:52
-0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
Oops, I see you replaced
the IAC. I withdraw my comment!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Bill vp [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday,
September 17, 2002 2:56 PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: car dying at idle
and rapid rpm dropping
Hello,
This has been going on for a while
now, and really makes me hate my car
('91
R/T tt). As the title
suggests, if the rpms drop rapidly (for instance,
when pushing in the clutch
pedal while driving), then they keep dropping
all
the way to 0.
Also, the car at idle will sometimes be idling fine, then
all
of a sudden
die. It will sometimes hunt a little up and down ....
sometimes
it
will then steady and all is well, but sometimes it will drop too
low
on
one of its "hunts" and the car will die.
Things I have
replaced in the last year or so since this has been
happening
that have
not solved the problem (some to try to solve this, some
for
other
reasons):
1. replaced all vacuum lines
2.
replaced IAC
3. replaced alternator, alternator belt,
battery
4. replaced capacitors on ECU
5. new plugs,
wires
6. new fuel pump, injectors
7. replaced MAS with the VPC
setup
I may be forgetting some other things also.
I have another
post asking about how to check the primary resistance of
the
coils, to see
if the coils are possibly bad, which the manual says is
one of
the things
to check for this.
thanks for any help,
Bill
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:17:15
+0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Boost w/ bigger turbos and stock fuel.
> Can I run out, get
some 15g's, a Supra pump and run 15
> pounds?? Here in Denver (5800ft) can
we run more due
> to the air being thinner?
It depends... If
you are running 15 pounds relative to
ambient pressure you probably
can. If you are running
15 pounds relative to sea-level absolute
pressure then
probably not. When I put the 15G's on my car with stock
fuel injectors and a Supra pump I'd get fuel cut above
13 psi at high
RPM. I could run 15 psi, but not above
5000 RPM, which defeated the
whole purpose of having
15Gs in the first place.
If you can get away
with it, the injectors will be way
maxed out near redline, so it isn't
something I'd
recommend doing for long.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:17:28
-0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
Bill, you might want to
check the following:
1. All Intercooler piping to make sure there are no
leaks;
2. The O2 Sensors
3. The Idle Adjustment Screw to make sure it's
still there;
4. Clean the throttle body and plenum of carbon
deposits.
See if those help.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Bill vp [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday,
September 17, 2002 2:56 PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: car dying at idle
and rapid rpm dropping
<<snip>>
<<Hello,
This has been going on for a while now, and really makes
me hate my car
('91
R/T tt). As the title suggests, if the rpms drop
rapidly (for instance,
when pushing in the clutch pedal while driving), then
they keep dropping
all
the way to 0. Also, the car at idle will
sometimes be idling fine, then
all
of a sudden die. It will
sometimes hunt a little up and down ....
sometimes
it will then steady and
all is well, but sometimes it will drop too low
on
one of its "hunts" and
the car will die.>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:22:54
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Exhaust - okay to leave one pre-cat
Although I live in California, this
is an imported car, with 11 years of
DEE-troit rust. To give you an idea, my
stock rear rotors were so rusty,
there's only about 30% of good brake contact
material left on them. The rust
goes all the way through on them. My exhaust
now has a leak in it at the
flex pipe (that's why I'm getting it all
replaced--why spend money on a
rusty stock exhaust?). Let me tell you a
little bit about the flanges and
nuts. There's nothing holding my exhaust
system together that I would call a
"nut". The nuts have turned into large
globs of rust. They would never come
off, which is why I'm taking the car to
a muffler shop where they'll
probably just torch it off.
Now, do you
think that changes anything? Or are the pre-cat housings so far
up there
(and/or so durable) that drilling through them wouldn't do
anything? As you
answer, you can make the assumption that I will drill
them
carefully.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:33:16
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
FW: engine problem! urgent!
Good point, because the more you
discuss the matter with the slimy dealer,
the more he has time to build a
case to defend himself. He may already be
taping your conversations. May be
best to catch him off guard.
-
---------------------------------------->
Hie thee to an
attorney.
Do not pass go. Do not collect $200
Go directly to an
attorney.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:32:34
-0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
thanks for the
replies everyone
I have (15k mile) new o2 sensors, the screw is indeed
there, and I used the
seafoam stuff to clean the throttle
body.
Another thing that I meant to mention in the first place is that if
I
disconnect the battery cable, then reconnect it, it seems to solve
the
problem for a while, then gets progressively worse, and about 3-4 days
(400
miles or so) later is back to the full problem again. I'm not sure
if that
helps or not, but figured I'd mention it.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Starkey, Jr., Joseph
Sent:
Tuesday, September 17, 2002 5:17 PM
To: Bill vp; team3/S
Subject: RE:
Team3S: car dying at idle and rapid rpm dropping
Bill, you might want to
check the following:
1. All Intercooler piping to make sure there are no
leaks;
2. The O2 Sensors
3. The Idle Adjustment Screw to make sure it's
still there;
4. Clean the throttle body and plenum of carbon
deposits.
See if those help.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:35:03
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Exhaust - okay to leave one pre-cat
I'm not sure exactly how
rusted the rear precat housing would be, but if you
can crack it open by
drilling out the contents carefully, I'd imagine it
needs to be replaced
anyway. I'd *think* you could carefully drill it out
and not suffer
consequences, but I haven't seen your car. Maybe talk to
some of the
guys up in the frozen pothole fields and see what they think?
-
--Erik
> Although I live in California, this is an imported car,
with
> 11 years of DEE-troit rust. <snip> Let me tell you a
little
> bit about the flanges and nuts. There's nothing holding
my
> exhaust system together that I would call a
> "nut". The nuts
have turned into large globs of rust. They
> would never come off, which
is why I'm taking the car to
> a muffler shop where they'll probably just
torch it off.
>
> Now, do you think that changes anything? Or are
the pre-cat
> housings so far up there (and/or so durable) that drilling
> through them wouldn't do> anything?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:48:38
-0400
From: "David Thrower" <
repairerr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: ECU fixed
Everyone,
I think that everyone that ownes
a first generation should do this. I would
have never known about this except
from the list. I had no problems with the
car, but, when I took the ECM out
and took it appart, two of the caps were
starting to leak, so I replaced all
three right there on the spot.
As always, this place is a great wealth
of information, and I thank
everyone who contributes to make this a great
place to learn about our
unique cars.
David Thrower. 92 Stealth R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#955
***************************************
