Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Monday, September 16 2002  Volume 01 : Number 954
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:26:54 -0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 91 Stealth TT for sale
 
The price looks good to me. I will pass the word onto a few local member in the NW who have been looking for a TT. What is this things about "The fix" for  the tranny? Is this the Kormex 1-2 Syncro fix that has been out for a while, or is there some new thing out there?
 
Tyson.
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf Of merritt@cedar-rapids.net
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:17 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: 91 Stealth TT for sale
 
Hey gang:
 
My beautiful daughter Cathy is going to give up her equally beautiful 91 Stealth TT. She had a baby and her priorities have changed. It's four door time for  them!
 
Before she puts it on E-bay, I thought we'd throw it out to the list.
 
This car is absolutely immaculate. This is a perfect car for anyone looking for a low mileage TT Stealth with all the correct mods -- chromies, Borla, DSBC,  lowered, and a WARRANTY in effect  until January 2003.  It looks good, sounds good, and turns heads as it rumbles by.
 
See it at http://www.bazillionbooks.com/1991StealthForSale.html
 
The car is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
 
Offers in excess of $9,000 will be entertained. (Book is $8K, but that's for a stocker with probably 100,000 miles -- this is low mileage with all the mods  and a warranty still in effect).
 
Rich/slow old grandpoop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:08:38 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 91 Stealth TT for sale
 
How low of mileage??
 
Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf Of Tigran Varosyan
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:27 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 91 Stealth TT for sale
 
The price looks good to me. I will pass the word onto a few local member in the NW who have been looking for a TT. What is this things about "The fix" for  the tranny? Is this the Kormex 1-2 Syncro fix that has been out for a while, or is there some new thing out there?
 
Tyson.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:57:38 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 91 Stealth TT for sale
 
I THINK it's 46,000 miles, but it's not my car. Send an e-mail to Cathy at gcathi@hotmail.com
 
At 08:08 PM 9/15/02 -0700, BlackLight wrote:
>How low of mileage??
>
>Matt Nelson
>1994 RT TT
>BlackLight@Planetice.Net
>www.BlackLight.5u.com
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:19:36 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange overheating problem
 
Have you changed your radiator hoses lately?  Perhaps they are collapsing at high engine speeds, thus restricting coolant flow. 
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen C. Kempf [mailto:kempfsc@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:24 PM
To: Team 3S List
Subject: Team3S: Strange overheating problem
 
I have a 1993 Stealth ES with no mods that I have owned since new and that has been very well taken care of. I've recently begun to have a "strange"  overheating problem (see below) that I'm having trouble figuring out. Since my experience with repair shops suggests they have trouble sorting this car  (often takes a long time or 2-4 tries to get it right) I'd like to get some ideas before I take it into the mechanic.
 
The car has 76K on it. I've changed the oil and filter every 3-4K since new and the engine purrs like a kitten. There's no smoke or steam in the exhaust. The  water pump was replaced and the timing belt changed at about 60K and the radiator and all water hoses were replaced at about 68K. There are no coolant leaks  and the fans come on when the air conditioning is turned on at idle (at this time of year the AC is on all the time). There are no leaves or other debris  blocking the radiator.
 
Now for the problem. When I drive around town everything is OK, the temperature gauge holds at a little below the half way point which is where it normally  is on this car, city or highway. When I get onto the interstate an get up to 70 mph or so, things may be OK for awhile, but then the temperature starts to  climb and will usually hang at about 3/4 of the range of the gauge (normally I'd expect it to be at a little below the 1/2 way point as described above). If  I get into a high load situation, such as climbing a hill, it goes higher. I haven't hit the red bar at the top of the gauge yet, but once it came awful  close. For now, I just drive it around the city until the problem (whatever it is) can be fixed.
 
I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone can offer.
 
Thank you,
 
Steve Kempf
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:51:08 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #952
 
Check your cats.  Perhaps they are plugged.
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrzej Artymowicz [mailto:andrzej.artymowicz@wp.pl]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:19 AM
To: 3000GT list
Subject: Re: Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #952
 
Hi!
 
I've got a problem with my '95 base (N/A). Yesterday I've found that
engine has difficulties to go beyond 2500-2600RPM range. Engine stops in
 
this RPM area. Sometimes on idle when I accelerate very slowly engine
behaves normally, but on driving conditions its very hard to drive. It's
 
not a problem with gasoline. I tried to disconnect batteries but it
doesn't help either. Any recommendations?
 
thanks
 
andrzej from Poland
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:16:42 -0400
From: SHANNON <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
Subject: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Team,
 
I am a long-time reader and rare writer to Team3s and I am extremely inferior when it comes to the technical expertise of most members, so I apologize if  this information is lacking.
 
I have a couple of issues that I would appreciate any advice, comments, recommendations on.  I have to take my car to the "stealer" this week to have them  look at some repairs they completed just 2 months ago.  I had taken it in(very long story) and they repaired a cracked rear turbo which was supposed to be my  problem, only to discover that there were more problems related to detonation.
 
 Well, after a small fortune in repairs, the car (from what I can tell) is still experiencing detonation at around 2,800- 3,100 rpm.  It is very subtle but  you can feel it "stutter".  I've also noticed that it is worse when cold or having sat for a while.  The occasional backfire sometimes accompanies it.
 
Every since this experience, I have read up on our cars (thanks to 3s!!) and have discovered that there is a lot more than meets the eye with these machines.   Unfortunately I do not have the experience, time, patience tools or hands to work on my car.  I have to take it in to them and basically tell them what is  wrong with it and why it's doing it, because they are useless. I can dig up the repair bill and give details if necessary.  In short, both turbos cleaned,  rear turbo rebuilt, engine machined because of detonation in cylinder, fuel rail cleaned, fuel filter replaced.  The turbos seem perfect since, but the car  began to "stutter" shortly after getting it back. I guess what I need to know is why is the car doing this again and how can I stop it from ever occurring  again.
 
 I have read up on Dataloggers, boost controllers, blow off valves and FIPK and have a general understanding.  The "stealer" went ahead with repairs without  my authorization (another long story) and thus, I have some "free" labor coming to me in the form of adding modifications to my liking.  I just don't know  which will help me and if a datalogger or maybe air/fuel gauge is truly what I need to keep on top of this car.  I have a very stock 1992 Dodge Stealth TT  with 100,000 miles and is used as a daily driver, basically to and from work.  I will never race it but do enjoy driving a fine car while being able to burn  any Mustang or Camaro I pull up to.  I have just soaked a lot of money into it and would like to get something for my cash, so I am thinking of adding some  minor performance parts (FIPK, blow off valve, boost controller)  Any feedback would be appreciated.  Once I clear this up, I will need some front end work  and will ask for more expert advice then, and then.... my baby will hopefully be as good as new.
 
Thanks to everyone in advance,
 
Shannon Rowe
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:17:20 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Exhaust - okay to leave one pre-cat
 
> The stillen downpipe will eliminate one
> precat and leave
> the other precat on there. Is that okay?
 
I ran with the front pre-cat intact and the rear one gutted for more than a year with no problems. 
 
> One more thing. Assuming that it's okay to leave the one
> pre-cat on there,
> about how much HP would that cost me?
 
Once I gutted my second precat, I did notice a bit of a power increase.  Not huge, but spoolup was a little faster and the car could hold a bit more boost in  the high end.
 
- - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:01:29 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Exhaust - okay to leave one pre-cat
 
> Erik Gross has that setup and he is not complaining.
 
Had :-)  For about a month.
 
Didn't have any problems before I improved the rear pre-cat, though.
 
- --Erik
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:22:14 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
What makes you think it is detonation?  stutter during WOT acceleration could be secondary to spark blow out.  what boost are you running and what spark  plug gap?  This is more likely with higher-than-stock boost.
 
Also, stutter could be secondary to a bad TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). Sometimes, but not always, this causes a fault code and a CE (Check Engine) light.
 
How many miles (and years) on these plugs and wires?
 
Chuck Willis
 
 Well, after a small fortune in repairs, the car (from what I can tell) is still experiencing detonation at around 2,800- 3,100 rpm.  It is very subtle but  you can feel it "stutter".  I've also noticed that it is worse when cold or having sat for a while.  The occasional backfire sometimes accompanies it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:07:54 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Did the dealer change spark plugs and spark plug wires with the stock NGK platinum plugs and the stock wires? Sometimes they do not change the wires and  "forget" to change the rear bank plugs.
 
If he did, then the best thing that you could spend your money on would be a datalogger (best) or an O2 gauge/voltmeter.
 
Philip
- --------------------------------
 
 Well, after a small fortune in repairs, the car (from what I can tell) is still experiencing detonation at around 2,800- 3,100 rpm.  It is very subtle but  you can feel it "stutter".  I've also noticed that it is worse when cold or having sat for a while.  The occasional backfire sometimes accompanies it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:35:24 -0400
From: SHANNON <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Chuck,
 
The only reason I think it's detonation is because that is what the dealer said was occurring previously and these are the exact same symptoms.  I did take a  look at the cylinder walls when it was taken apart and there was a lot of shine on the walls which apparently, is a sign of detonation.
 
I am not getting any warnings, other than the SRS light that has been there forever.
 
The plugs and wires are around 2 years of age and have approx. 25,000 miles on them.  Is there anything I can check to narrow the problem down?  Fuel filter  changed and fuel rail sent out for cleaning.
 
My boost is stock, as is the spark plug gap.  There are no mods or after market parts.
 
Thanks,
 
Shannon Rowe
 
> From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:22:14 -0500
> To: "'SHANNON'" <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>, Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
>
> What makes you think it is detonation?  stutter during WOT
> acceleration could be secondary to spark blow out.  what boost are
> you running and what spark plug gap?  This is more likely with
> higher-than-stock boost.
>
> Also, stutter could be secondary to a bad TPS (Throttle Position
> Sensor). Sometimes, but not always, this causes a fault code and a CE
> (Check Engine) light.
>
> How many miles (and years) on these plugs and wires?
>
> Chuck Willis
>
> Well, after a small fortune in repairs, the car (from what I can tell)
> is still experiencing detonation at around 2,800- 3,100 rpm.  It is
> very subtle but you can feel it "stutter".  I've also noticed that it
> is worse when cold or having sat for a while.  The occasional backfire
> sometimes accompanies it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:15:47 -0400
From: SHANNON <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Actually, the first time into the dealer I think they did "forget" to change the rear plugs, that's when I first experience rough running.  I took it into a  friend a few days later and he did it properly.
 
>From what I understand a data logger would tell me (among other things) if the car is misfiring?  What is involved in installing a datalogger and what  estimated cost are we looking at?  So the datalogger would constantly monitor the engine and I would have to view the results after every run? Or is it only  used when you think your having problems?? Does it require a laptop?
 
I also forgot to mention that the O2 sensors were changed as well.
 
Thanks,
 
Shannon Rowe
 
> From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:07:54 -0400
> To: team3s@team3s.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
>
> Did the dealer change spark plugs and spark plug wires with the stock
> NGK platinum plugs and the stock wires? Sometimes they do not change
> the wires and "forget" to change the rear bank plugs.
>
> If he did, then the best thing that you could spend your money on
> would be a datalogger (best) or an O2 gauge/voltmeter.
>
> Philip
> --------------------------------
>
> Well, after a small fortune in repairs, the car (from what I can tell)
> is still experiencing detonation at around 2,800- 3,100 rpm.  It is
> very subtle but you can feel it "stutter".  I've also noticed that it
> is worse when cold
> or having sat for a while.  The occasional backfire sometimes accompanies
> it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:58:03 -0500
From: "Jim Fay" <jfay@tssu.com>
Subject: Team3S: Detonation
 
Shannon
 
I am beginning to have serious questions about this dealer. Charging for work not done as in the plugs.  And the detonation explanation. The cylinder walls  are supposed to be shiny, almost a mirror finish.  This is where the rings of the engine create the seal for the cylinder.  If they were rough and scratchy,  you would have reduced power from low compression and blow by.
 
Keep learning about the car and think of finding a new mechanic (doesn't have to be a dealer) to work on the car.
 
If the stutter occurs only during acceleration, and not just cruising, it is most probably plugs, wires, or coils in that order.  I have had experience with  the 36 coil failing and it will not generate a check engine light or code until the coil gets bad enough to miss during cruising, not just during  acceleration.
 
Jim
91 RT TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:47:31 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
>Actually, the first time into the dealer I think they did "forget" to
change
>the rear plugs, that's when I first experience rough running.  I took
>it into a friend a few days later and he did it properly.
 
If you have 25,000 miles on your plugs and wires, change them. This is not too high of a mileage, but looking at how you change everything that could be  changed, I would start with plugs and wires first.
 
>From what I understand a data logger would tell me (among other things) if
>the car is misfiring?  What is involved in installing a datalogger and what
>estimated cost are we looking at?  So the datalogger would constantly
>monitor the engine and I would have to view the results after every run?
Or
>is it only used when you think your having problems?? Does it require a laptop?
 
A data logger will tell you if you have knock or not. It will also tell you if you are running rich or lean. Then it will tell give you a hint if you could  have a spark blowout(misfiring). Data loggers are usually used only for diagnostics and tuning. You would be able to use it more if you decide to buy a boost  controller. There are two data loggers for your car that I know of: www.tmo.com and www.pocketlogger.com. One uses a laptop and the other uses a Palm  organizer. Check out their websites and inquire about availability before placing an order. But get those plugs and wires first. Good luck.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:58:47 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation
 
>I am beginning to have serious questions about this dealer. Charging
>for work not done as in the plugs.  And the detonation explanation.
>The cylinder walls are supposed to be shiny, almost a mirror finish.
>This is where the rings of the engine create the seal for the cylinder. 
>If they were rough and scratchy, you would have reduced power from low
>compression and blow by.
 
True. I would bet there wasn't any crack in the rear turbo either. I would demand the old turbo back from that dealer and sue him if he does not provide it.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:28:47 -0500
From: "Jim Fay" <jfay@tssu.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Shannon,
 
I really should not read my mails in reverse order.  You said that it occurs more when cold, occasional back fire. This does indicate unburned fuel to have a  backfire.  the fuel is not being burned in the cylinder.  Also, a cold mixture is 'thicker', more fuel in the mix.  The thicker the mix, the stronger the  spark needed to get through it. Detonation in the cylinder is caused by a hot spot, usually a dirty combustion chamber.  The fuel and air get compressed and  their temp rises. If there is a hot spot, it will ignite the mixture before the spark has the chance.  Detonation if it occurs very early in the compression  cycle will break pistons and hammer bearings. Also, I was not exact in last msg.  Philip pointed out that the cylinder walls should be very smooth with faint  lines in an x pattern.  Mirror finish in theory is good, but will cause lubrication problems.
 
Jim
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:19:59 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
As Philip so aptly noted, if the cylinder walls were not shiny, the piston rings would not provide much of a seal. Even if the cylinder walls start out not  so shiny, a few hours at several thousand rpms will make them shiny. There is a tool for "honing" cylinder walls to remove the glaze from them. Sometimes  when you take the head off an engine block, there is glaze sticking up into the area of the cylinder where the head is, and you have to knock this off before  reinstalling the head.
 
Somebody at the dealer is yanking your chain.
 
"The only reason I think it's detonation is because that is what the dealer said was occurring previously and these are the exact same symptoms.  I did take  a look at the cylinder walls when it was taken apart and there was a lot of shine on the walls which apparently, is a sign of detonation."
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:25:28 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
... so in an attempt to be helpful and constructive, have you tried running a tankful of injector cleaner through the car? I am thinking that if the injectors  are dirty then they drip fuel into the cylinders instead of spraying it in, so you get incomplete combustion.  How's your fuel economy?
 
Chuck Willis 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Im voting on an incomplete tuneup.
 
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
 
> ... so in an attempt to be helpful and constructive, have you tried
> running a tankful of injector cleaner through the car? I am thinking
> that if the injectors are dirty then they drip fuel into the cylinders
> instead of spraying it in, so you get incomplete combustion.  How's
> your fuel economy?
 
***
NEW Supra Product!
6/6 Nylon suspension bushings are available for MK3 supras NOW! Check out http://www.speedtoys.com/bushings.html for details. This is the only planned  purchase -ever- of these, until October 5th.
***
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:45:16 -0400
From: SHANNON <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Chuck,
 
Yes I have run injector cleaner.  I have also tried octane boost.  The octane boost seemed to limit the severity of the "stutter" however it was still there.   Fuel economy could definitely use improvement, how much I am not sure.
 
Thanks again,
 
Shannon
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:06:51 -0400
From: SHANNON <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Jim,
 
Thanks for the explanation, it helps.
 
Normally you can barely notice the "stutter", only veteran Stealth/3000GT owners or astute mechanics would be able to tell, but when it is cold, it's very  obvious.  After parking the car all day at work and then starting it up, it runs very rough, if you attempt to give it gas it is really a rough climb through  the RPM band, once you get going, it gradually improves.
 
I know first hand the damage detonation can cause because that's what led to the repairs in the first place.  After spending that kind of money on the car, I  informed the dealer that I was very concerned of the possibility that this could happen again, of course he said it wouldn't.  So I need to know if/why I  have a "hot spot" on this recently repaired engine.
 
I do not know much about the cylinder walls etc. only what the kind folks at Team3S told me.  I went armed with this ammunition and demanded to see the  engine apart as suggested.  They pointed out the cylinders and pointed to two in particular (I forget which off hand) and pointed to the shiny area and said  that's were the detonation was occurring.  They then demonstrated the "play" the piston had.  That, they said was the route of the problem.
 
Thanks,
 
Shannon
 
> From: "Jim Fay" <jfay@tssu.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:28:47 -0500
> To: <Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
>
> Shannon,
>
> I really should not read my mails in reverse order.  You said that it
> occurs more when cold, occasional back fire. This does indicate
> unburned fuel to have a backfire.  the fuel is not being burned in the
> cylinder.  Also, a cold mixture is 'thicker', more fuel in the mix. 
> The thicker the mix, the stronger the spark needed to get through it.
> Detonation in the cylinder is caused by a hot spot, usually a dirty
> combustion chamber.  The fuel and air get compressed and their temp
> rises. If there is a hot spot, it will ignite the mixture before the
> spark has the chance.  Detonation if it occurs very early in the
> compression cycle will break pistons and hammer bearings. Also, I was
> not exact in last msg.  Philip pointed out that the cylinder walls
> should be very smooth with faint lines in an x pattern.  Mirror finish
> in theory is good, but will cause lubrication problems.
>
> Jim
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:50:56 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
It hasn't been discussed in a while, but I just found this article explaining the operation/purpose of the harmonic dampener on the stock crankshaft pulley.   The article is Supra-specific in content, but I'm sure similar concepts and processes went into making the harmonic dampener for the pulley on our cars. 
 
http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonictech/tet/dualratedamper.html
 
- - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
That would stand as valid engineering for -any- car with a crank damper.
 
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
 
> It hasn't been discussed in a while, but I just found this article
> explaining the operation/purpose of the harmonic dampener on the stock
> crankshaft pulley.  The article is Supra-specific in content, but I'm
> sure similar concepts and processes went into making the harmonic
> dampener for the pulley on our cars.
>
> http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonictech/tet/dualratedamper.html
>
> - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:56:46 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@schappell.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
Here is some specific info on the 3S platform....
 
http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/udp.htm
 
I still can not for the life of me figure out how anyone would run one on their car.
 
Kevin
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf Of Geddes, Brian J
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 5:51 PM
To: Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
It hasn't been discussed in a while, but I just found this article explaining the operation/purpose of the harmonic dampener on the stock crankshaft pulley.   The article is Supra-specific in content, but I'm sure similar concepts and processes went into making the harmonic dampener for the pulley on our cars.
 
http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonictech/tet/dualratedamper.html
 
- - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:58:47 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Aluminum radiators and such
 
As soon as the next event is over, I'll have to tend to my recurring radiator overheating problem. Looks like the solution may be the $550 aluminum rad from  Prentiss (http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/2928/radiator.htm)
 
Before I do this, other possibilities occur to me.
 
1. Are there any alternatives to the PPE rad? Who else has one? 2. Has anyone tried installing a big fat ordinary radiator in there? Seems like there is  plenty of room for something like a Corvette radiator. I'd have to install fans somewhere else, of course. 3. Is there a performance mod for a stock rad? How  about an external tank for more capacity? How about a second rad, mounted in series? What about a high capacity water pump?
 
I figure the aluminum rad is the answer, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aluminum radiators and such
 
Radiators are all about soak time.
 
more core volume and depth..is what its all about.
 
You HAVE to slow down the thermostat cycle, to solve the problem.
 
$550 isnt a bad deal for the size of the rad.
 
Be a racer..pony it up.
 
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:
 
> As soon as the next event is over, I'll have to tend to my recurring
> radiator overheating problem. Looks like the solution may be the $550
> aluminum rad from Prentiss
> (http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/2928/radiator.htm)
>
> Before I do this, other possibilities occur to me.
>
> 1. Are there any alternatives to the PPE rad? Who else has one? 2. Has
> anyone tried installing a big fat ordinary radiator in there? Seems
> like there is plenty of room for something like a Corvette radiator.
> I'd have to install fans somewhere else, of course. 3. Is there a
> performance mod for a stock rad? How about an external tank for more
> capacity? How about a second rad, mounted in series? What about a high
> capacity water pump?
>
> I figure the aluminum rad is the answer, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
>
> Rich/slow old poop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:22:00 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aluminum radiators and such
 
>$550 isnt a bad deal for the size of the rad.
>Be a racer..pony it up.
>
Just thought I'd ask first.
It'd be just my luck to buy one, then learn that the rad from a 68 Chevy pickup bolts right in and solves the problem for $40.
 
Ages ago in pro rallying, we learned that big strong 8 in. wide steel wheels from old Corvairs bolted right up to the 1972 Datsun 510. We could get the  wheels for under $10 at junkyards everywhere in those days. Folks who didn't know that were buying mags and bending them on rockadillows and bunyip  crossings. We also learned that a used Chrysler 70A alternator also bolted right up, saving the cost of buying a special rally alternator from Datsun  Competition. Ever since then, I always ask to see if there is a cheap way.
 
Rich
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:10:54 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
Short V-engines are not so prone to damages through the lack of a harmonic dampener. Till today, no 3S car had any damage from an underdrive non-dampening  pulley... one thing our engines seem not to have a problem with :-) Knock is much more an issue than any UDP and we can be lucky for this little advantage.
 
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@schappell.com>
To: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>; <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:56 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
> Here is some specific info on the 3S platform....
>
> http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/udp.htm
>
> I still can not for the life of me figure out how anyone would run one
> on their car.
>
> Kevin
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:57:10 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S: Brake Blowers
 
Rich Merritt,
 
I'm wondering if you have any comments about your strut mounted brake blowers.
 
           ~~ Michael Gerhard ~~
   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
  L-126  7000 East Avenue, Livermore CA 94550
         Email: gerhard1@llnl.gov
           Phone: (925) 422-8368
            Fax: (925) 424-2135
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aluminum radiators and such
 
:)
 
To be polite..you have asked before.
 
This isnt the first time you've brung up the "I dont wanna pay $500 for a real radiator" thread.
 
*friendly ribbing*
 
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:
 
> >$550 isnt a bad deal for the size of the rad.
> >Be a racer..pony it up.
> >
> Just thought I'd ask first.
> It'd be just my luck to buy one, then learn that the rad from a 68
> Chevy pickup bolts right in and solves the problem for $40.
>
> Ages ago in pro rallying, we learned that big strong 8 in. wide steel
> wheels from old Corvairs bolted right up to the 1972 Datsun 510. We
> could get the wheels for under $10 at junkyards everywhere in those
> days. Folks who didn't know that were buying mags and bending them on
> rockadillows and bunyip crossings. We also learned that a used
> Chrysler 70A alternator also bolted right up, saving the cost of
> buying a special rally alternator from Datsun Competition. Ever since
> then, I always ask to see if there is a cheap way.
>
> Rich
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
 
..and Im yet to see a 7.0 earthquake here in San Jose.
 
Doesnt mean it wont happen, because from a factual point of view...it will.
 
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
 
> Short V-engines are not so prone to damages through the lack of a
> harmonic dampener. Till today, no 3S car had any damage from an
> underdrive non-dampening pulley... one thing our engines seem not to
> have a problem with :-) Knock is much more an issue than any UDP and
> we can be lucky for this little advantage.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@schappell.com>
> To: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>; <Team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:56 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Lightweight/underdrive pulley effects
>
> > Here is some specific info on the 3S platform....
> >
> > http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/udp.htm
> >
> > I still can not for the life of me figure out how anyone would run
> > one on their car.
> >
> > Kevin
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:21:42 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "SHANNON" <shannon@oxfordlearning.com>
 
> Chuck,
>
> Yes I have run injector cleaner.  I have also tried octane boost.  The
> octane boost seemed to limit the severity of the "stutter" however it
> was still there.  Fuel economy could definitely use improvement, how
> much I am not sure.
 
If you're in experimental mode, and really think increased octane alleviates your problem go to the following link and take a look around.
 
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.phps=ebb87d77570daa9786ebb0d3a063f0a0&postid=833271#post833271
 
The articles are about rocket fuel, or the use of toluene or xylene as an octane booster. Many a folk have tried it and it does work --- the articles give  ratios and octane results but a gallon or two of toluene in a third of a tank of gas should raise the octane to the
point where detonation is eliminated. Or look around for a station in your area that sells race gas and put in a few gallons of race gas ---- that stuff goes  up to 118 octane leaded so you can only use a few gallons for testing.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:45:26 -0600
From: "Vic O'Kane" <fiendishhq@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: please help
 
Hey guys,
 
I broke a rod in my '94 sl 3000gt- I didn't throw it but its knocking like all hell - I am wanting to know what is the best course of action- getting a new  engine- which a auto wholesaler has quoted around $3,000 or should I attempt to have the engine rebuilt- and if so where should I send it? I live in denver,  CO- and I'm not sure where to get the best service for my 3000 - I love my car and I will fix it one way or the next but I am hoping that all of you experts  have some suggestions on the best way to get me and my car out of this mess- thanx!
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:55:17 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: please help
 
Sounds like you spun a bearing? You can check with Mile High Mitsubishi. When I spun mine they did a total rebuild for $3,800. If I'm not mistaken you can  get a new crank, bearings, and rods should be good. Am I on the right path?
 
Curtis McConnell
 
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
 
2,000 mi on new motor.
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Vic O'Kane [mailto:fiendishhq@hotmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 5:45 PM
To: team3s@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: please help
 
Hey guys,
 
     I broke a rod in my '94 sl 3000gt- I didn't throw it but its knocking like all hell - I am wanting to know what is the best course of
action- getting a new engine- which a auto wholesaler has quoted around $3,000 or should I attempt to have the engine rebuilt- and if so where should I send  it? I live in denver, CO- and I'm not sure where to get the best service for my 3000 - I love my car and I will fix it one way or the next but I am hoping  that all of you experts have some suggestions on the best way to get me and my car out of this mess- thanx!
 
- -Vic
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:24:57 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Detonation@3,000 rpm+misc.
 
Since your car is idling rough and it is hesitating then I would check your cam shaft timing marks.  If the "stealer" is the same people you had change your  timing belt, then I would be very suspicious about this.
 
I would not call it detonation yet.  You don't know for sure without a data log.  Even then, it could be a bad detonation sensor or engine mount.
 
Check all of your IC hoses too.  Since the turbos have been removed, there could easily be a hose loose.  If someone in your area has an intake pressure  tester, then look them up.
 
I would consider finding a good shop in your area that knows our cars and have a diagnostic done.  For $60 you can have a shop find the exact problem and  replace one part instead of taking shots in the dark.
 
Good luck.
 
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:02:40 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: please help
 
A spun bearing is most likely caused by revving the hell out of a cold engine.
Dont do this.
 
I think Curtis is right, but what about the cylinder walls, could they have
been scratched at all?
 
- -mike
97 SL
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:19:31 -0600
From: "Moe Prasad" <mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: please help
 
My VR4's new short block cost $3,200 at Skyline Mitsubishi in Thornton.  It should be a lot less for a N/A.  The labor was a lot.  I had the heads rebuilt  while the engine was out. I had them put a new water pump at that time also.  When my car left the dealer, the cost was around $8,000.
 
I met a guy the other day that had done work on a non turbo.  He works on cars on the side.  He owns a N/A 3000GT him self.  I don't have his phone number  but know where he lives.
 
You should find someone to swap out the engine.   Here is a site that might
be of help with an engine. http://members.aol.com/simonsez6/japengp.htm#MITSUBISHI
 
Rgds
Moe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Curtis McConnell
To: Vic O'Kane ; team3s@team3s.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: please help
 
Sounds like you spun a bearing? You can check with Mile High Mitsubishi. When I spun mine they did a total rebuild for $3,800. If I'm not mistaken you can  get a new crank, bearings, and rods should be good. Am I on the right path?
 
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
2,000 mi on new motor.
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Vic O'Kane [mailto:fiendishhq@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 5:45 PM
To: team3s@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: please help
 
Hey guys,
     I broke a rod in my '94 sl 3000gt- I didn't throw it but its knocking like all hell - I am wanting to know what is the best course of action- getting a  new engine- which a auto wholesaler has quoted around $3,000 or should I attempt to have the engine rebuilt- and if so where should I send it? I live in  denver, CO- and I'm not sure where to get the best service for my 3000 - I love my car and I will fix it one way or the next but I am hoping that all of you  experts have some suggestions on the best way to get me and my car out of this mess- thanx!
                                                                           
                                                       -Vic
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #954
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