----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 09 Sep 2002 10:25:32 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Nology Hotwires (AEM ECU,Spark)
>P.S. There is a Supra guy
on the AEM ECU forum who claims to have
>achieved a monstrous spark with
the AEM ECU, LS1 coils and Nology
Hotwires.
>According to him, the
Nology wires are just an additional benefit. He
says
>that those LS1
coils are the ones that really kick a$$. But you have to
>have the AEM
ECU to be able to use them... Those LS1 coils are really
>cheap and you
could have that monstrous spark for under $300. I may try
it
>when I
have nothing else left to do.
Define "monstrous spark" and how he
measured it. Does the AEM log spark
power (energy) ... definitely not. So
what does that mean he's talking
about.
And for sure we know that GM
coils are a solution for better spark. Any
wire would then do the job,
Nology, Accel, Magnecor or whatever. But the
AEM cannot compensate for
insufficient spark (they say). I don't know if
the AEM ECU connects to
the coils directly or the ignition drivers. If
the
first is true then the
coils may be made for a CDI und not an IDI and
therefore need an AEM EMS or
MSD DIS to be driven. But if the stock
transistors are used, another ECU is
not of use.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 07:23:16
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Nology Hotwires (AEM ECU,Spark)
Check out these two
threads:
http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=918http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=917Philip
At
04:25 9/9/2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
>Define "monstrous spark" and how he
measured it. Does the AEM log spark
>power (energy) ... definitely not. So
what does that mean he's talking
about.
>
>And for sure we know
that GM coils are a solution for better spark. Any
>wire would then do the
job, Nology, Accel, Magnecor or whatever. But
the
>AEM cannot
compensate for insufficient spark (they say). I don't know
if
>the AEM
ECU connects to the coils directly or the ignition drivers. If
the
>first is true then the coils may be made for a CDI und not an IDI and
>therefore need an AEM EMS or MSD DIS to be driven. But if the stock
>transistors are used, another ECU is not of use.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:34:03
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Battery cable-National Backorder
Nationwide backorder? It
wouldn't surprise me. Parts for our cars are
now
becoming unavailable.
For example, Mitsu no longer sells new AC
compressors
for the 1991-1993
models. This scroll-type compressor is unique to our
models.
Fortunately,
remanufactured ones can be purchased at a fraction of the
$710
list
price.
The negative battery cable is *easily* duplicated with some
4-ga
multistrand,
insulated cable, two 4-ga ring connectors (ground to
firewall and to
engine),
and a standard SAE battery terminal. BTW, the
factory cable is a 20mm2
metric
cable, equivalent to SAE 5-ga.
AC
compressor info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ac-compressor.htmBattery-related
info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-battery-move.htmhttp://www.stealth316.com/2-dynabatt.htmWire
resistance and voltage drop calculator
http://www.stealth316.com/2-wire-resistance.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
To:
"3000GT List Submissions" <
Stealth@starnet.net>
Sent: Sunday,
September 08, 2002 5:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Battery cable-National
Backorder
I tried to get a Negative Battery Cable and the dealer told me
I had to
buy it
as a package with the Positive cable, which was
fine.
I figured I would do a little preventative maintenance and replace the
positive cable anyway.
After waiting a could of weeks and the cables
still aren't in, I called
the
dealer Friday, and he told me that the
cables are still
on Nationwide backorder and he has no idea when they will be
in stock.
Anyone ever heard of this and can this be true
?
Thanks
Anthony Melillo
1997 VR-4, Firestorm Red
http://home.sprintmail.com/~anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:42:42
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Nology Hotwires (AEM ECU,Spark)
At 07:23 09.09.2002 -0400,
Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>Check out these two
threads:
>
>http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=918
>
>http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=917
Ok,
this makes sense ! I didn't know that the LS1 coils have the
ignitors
included as well. But we need six of these coils with as short
as
possible
wires to the sparks if they don't directly sit on them (like
on the Audi
A8).
For the connection, the article says that the EMS
directly goes to these
coils. This of course cannot work with any stock
system as we have a
wasted
spark system and only three
controls.
Although, I wonder why we can't keep the wasted spark
functionality with
two coils firing the same time. Therefore on a car
with the stock
ignition
drivers, we can take the same trigger signal for
two coils to fire them
the
same time... hmm, why not ?!
Regarding
the wires, it would be interesting to see other wires in this
test. Maybe
the ones he tested were just crap or old or whatever. The
cost
for the
Nology wires is pretty high for the small ones.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:50:18
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Battery cable-National Backorder
Don't be surprised if the
positive cable which looks "fine" is also
badly
corroded on the
inside. Checking the resistance of the positive cable
might
convince
you to replace it, too.
Chuck Willis
The negative battery cable is
*easily* duplicated with some 4-ga
multistrand,
insulated cable, two 4-ga
ring connectors (ground to firewall and to
engine),
and a standard SAE
battery terminal. BTW, the factory cable is a 20mm2
metric
cable,
equivalent to SAE 5-ga.
AC compressor info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ac-compressor.htmBattery-related
info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-battery-move.htmhttp://www.stealth316.com/2-dynabatt.htmWire
resistance and voltage drop calculator
http://www.stealth316.com/2-wire-resistance.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/" the
dealer told me I had to buy it
as a package with the Positive cable, which
was fine."
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 07:26:07
-0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Removing Front Dust Shields Revisited and Caliper R&R
Thanks to all
who responded with comments, links, tips about removing
the
dust shields.
On Saturday I pulled the calipers and rotors and unbolted
the
dust
shields. I have yet to figure out how to work the dust shield off
over
the hub. I have yet to come to the point of cutting them apart or
pulling
the front axles. I know either of those approaches will work.
I'm
wondering
if there is a trick to getting them over the
hubs.
As a second point, in the process of changing the front pads I
noticed
that
the caliper piston dust boots looked weathered. Several had
major holes
in
them and most of them felt less like rubber and more like
tissue. Thus,
I
am experiencing what most of you all have in the past,
the projects get
deeper than we think. I've ordered two rebuild kits which
should be in
today. I'm thinking that it looks pretty straightforward to put
the kits
in, a seal in each piston housing (I think they are
pre-lubricated),
insert
the pistons, and attach the dust boot to the
piston and housing with the
retainer ring. Any additional tips would be
great.
Thanks in advance.
-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A.
Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:43:51
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Removing Front Dust Shields Revisited and
Caliper
R&R
I'm wondering if there is a trick to getting
them over the hubs.
>> Newton's Fifth Law - if it doesn't fit,
force it. The dust shields
bend
>> easily and also unbend
easily.
Any additional tips would be great.
>> With
four piston calipers, you will have an interesting time
popping
out
>> the pistons. Put a block of wood between the
pistons to prevent
damage to
>> them and your fingers. Set the
caliper on a rag to catch brake
fluid. I
>> use compressed air
at the bleed valve with the brake line plugged. I
use
>> small
c-clamps to hold a seal with the pistons as they pop out one
by
one.
>> Clean the pistons well - they will have scuffs and
foreign matter
squished
>> on the sides. Reassembly is much easier
than disassembly. Lubricate
the
>> pistons with brake
fluid.
Chuck Willis
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:01:20
-0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Nology Hotwires (AEM ECU,Spark)
We discussed connecting two
coils in parallel to each of the ECU pins in
those threads. It should
work.
That guy made a switch box for the Supra to fire one coil at a
time. It
converts "wasted spark" into "direct fire". It probably won't work
on
other cars though. Read the threads.
The problem with using the
stock ignition drivers is that we cannot
control dwell time with them. I do
not know what the implications of
this
are though and if it could be fixed
or not.
Philip
-
---------------------------------------
Although, I wonder why we can't
keep the wasted spark functionality with
two coils firing the same time.
Therefore on a car with the stock
ignition
drivers, we can take the
same trigger signal for two coils to fire them
the
same time... hmm, why
not ?!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:30:16
-0400
From: "Mark Waller" <
mwa11719@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: FW: Fuel Filter
Well members, I ordered a TEC strut bar and
while waiting for it to
arrive, I invested in a Optima Yellow Top deep cell
34/78-950 battery
retail $189.99 ( thanks Wayne for the input), this
battery will work
with the strut bar. I also went with Chris' advice and
bought a fuel
filter. That's when the fun started, the fuel filter on
the car was
original and boy was it a P.I.T.A. to remove! Believe me, change
that
bad boy every 30,000 miles like the dealership says! The in and
out
bolts were just about impossible to break, even after soaking
with
wd-40. Torquing the bolts to 22ftlbs is no easy task either. Hope
no
one has as much trouble as I did! Everything is ready, just waiting
on
my strut bar.
P.S. I'm 3rd owner on this car.
--- Mark
Waller
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:03:45
-0400
From: "Jim Figgins" <
abrman@one.net>
Subject: Team3S: SRS LITE
ON
My SRS light came on today while driving. Anyone have a good idea
what
to do without taking it to a dealer?
Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:29:20
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Temperature problems again.
This is getting downright silly.
There must be something going on besides excess turbo boost.
We went
to Hawkeye Downs today, to run laps on the 1/2 mile paved oval.
I
followed my buddy in the Z06 around, running 25-26 sec laps (75 mph
average,
I think). I was doing great, considering that my right rear
tire was low,
at 32 psi, and the car was a little squirrelly in the
corners. At 15
psi, I was keeping up with the killer Z06 just fine until
my temp gage shot
up. I pitted, and it spewed a little coolant.
>From then on, no
matter what I did, I couldn't keep the temps down. I'd
let it cool down to
normal temps, and go out again.
I ran with stock boost. Two laps, the gauge
was up.
I cruised around in 4th gear (no boost). Two laps, the gauge was
up.
I drove home at 65 mph, with no boost. I had to stop every two miles
to
let it cool off.
The weird part is, it cools off faster than it
goes up. After a few
minutes, the gauge will drop like a rock from the red
zone to mid gauge,
where it's supposed to be, then slowly climbs back
up.
It doesn't act particularly hot, doesn't steam, doesn't boil over,
or do
anything weird. It gurgles a little, but that's normal. Yet the gauge
is
pegged high.
I'd think BAD GAUGE, but it's computer driven.
I'd think BAD SENSOR but it DID spew some coolant, so the sensor is
not
completely incorrect.
I'd think OUT OF COOLANT, but it seems to have
coolant (not full, by any
means, but not empty, either -- at least there is
coolant in the
overflow tank).
It has a reasonably new thermostat
(low temp), was flushed out earlier
this year, and has all new coolant.
This obviously has nothing at all to do with boost now. There
is
something fundamentally wrong with the cooling system.
So, where
do I start? A radiator shop? Have the rad taken out and
cleaned?
New
temp sensor?
Have the system flushed again?
Look for low coolant level?
(if low coolant, where could it be going?)
It's sitting out there in the
garage cooling off, whilst I await
guidance from the group here on the proper
diagnostic course of action.
Where do I start? What do I look
for?
Rich/slow old grandpoop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:48:54
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Temperature problems again.
How old are the upper
and lower radiator hoses?
Taking the radiator out and getting it refurbished
is not going to do
any harm.
Coolant can escape from the upper radiator
hose where it connects to the
thermostat housing when the thermostat is open
and then when you stop
the
thermostat closes and you don't see the steam
leak. Look for evidence
of a
leak when you pull the y-pipe to get
access to the upper hose.
Seems the temperature sensor is working fine -
it's telling you its
getting hot.
Flushing the system again will also
not hurt anything. Not sure whether
I
would do that before or after
refurbing the radiator.
Chuck Willis
So, where do I start? A
radiator shop? Have the rad taken out and
cleaned?
New temp sensor?
Have the system flushed again? Look for low coolant
level?
(if low
coolant, where could it be going?)
It's sitting out there in the garage
cooling off, whilst I await
guidance
from the group here on the proper
diagnostic course of action. Where do
I
start? What do I look
for?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:51:46
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Temperature problems again.
Rich I cant remember what year
your car is however if it is a 91-93 your
complete thermostat housing has 3
sensor ports on it the one closest to
you
(when standing directly in front
of the car is the one the gauge uses) I
would check that to see if maybe it
has issues (seems to have a latency
problem)
Next I would have the
radiator back flushed (literally the shop runs a
cleaner backwards though the
radiator) this causes a lot of stuff that
may
be trapped (due to their
size) in the core to be pushed out.
After that I would confirm that you
coolant level is where it should be.
Lastly maybe try replacing the
T-STAT with a factory original.
Russ F
CT
> >From then
on, no matter what I did, I couldn't keep the temps down.
I'd
> let it
cool down to normal temps, and go out again.
> I ran with stock boost.
Two laps, the gauge was up.
> I cruised around in 4th gear (no boost). Two
laps, the gauge was up.
> I drove home at 65 mph, with no boost. I had to
stop every two miles
to
> let it cool off.
>
> The weird
part is, it cools off faster than it goes up. After a few
> minutes, the
gauge will drop like a rock from the red zone to mid
gauge,
> where
it's supposed to be, then slowly climbs back up.
>
> It doesn't
act particularly hot, doesn't steam, doesn't boil over, or
do
>
anything weird. It gurgles a little, but that's normal. Yet the
gauge
is
> pegged high.
>
> I'd think BAD GAUGE, but it's
computer driven.
> I'd think BAD SENSOR but it DID spew some coolant, so
the sensor is
not
> completely incorrect.
> I'd think OUT OF
COOLANT, but it seems to have coolant (not full, by
any
> means, but
not empty, either -- at least there is coolant in the
overflow
> tank).
>
> It has a reasonably new thermostat (low temp), was flushed out
earlier
> this year, and has all new coolant.
>
> This
obviously has nothing at all to do with boost now. There is
something
>
fundamentally wrong with the cooling system.
>
> So, where do I
start? A radiator shop? Have the rad taken out and
>
cleaned?
> New temp sensor?
> Have the system flushed again?
> Look for low coolant level? (if low coolant, where could it be
going?)
>
> It's sitting out there in the garage cooling off,
whilst I await
guidance
> from the group here on the proper diagnostic
course of action. Where
do I
> start? What do I look for?
>
> Rich/slow old grandpoop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:01:05
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Temperature problems again.
At 04:51 PM 9/9/02 -0400, Furman,
Russell wrote:
>Rich I cant remember what year your car is
94
however if it is a 91-93 your
>complete thermostat
housing has 3 sensor ports on it the one closest to
you
>(when standing
directly in front of the car is the one the gauge uses)
I
>would check
that to see if maybe it has issues (seems to have a
latency
>problem)
How you do that?
Rich
>
>Next
I would have the radiator back flushed (literally the shop runs a
>cleaner
backwards though the radiator) this causes a lot of stuff that
may
>be
trapped (due to their size) in the core to be pushed out.
>
>After
that I would confirm that you coolant level is where it
should
be.
>
>Lastly maybe try replacing the T-STAT with a
factory original.
>
>Russ F
>CT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:12:02
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Temperature problems again.
Yours is a 94 doesn't apply
:/ The only thing I can come up with is
maybe you
have something floating around in your coolant that is causing
the
T-STAT
to stick or is clogging enough of you radiator to cause
a
problem?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 5:01
PM
> To: Furman, Russell;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems again.
>
> At 04:51 PM
9/9/02 -0400, Furman, Russell wrote:
> >Rich I cant remember what year
your car is
>
> 94
>
> however if it is a 91-93
your
> >complete thermostat housing has 3 sensor ports on it the one
closest
to
> you
> >(when standing directly in front of the
car is the one the gauge
uses) I
> >would check that to see if maybe
it has issues (seems to have a
latency
> >problem)
>
>
How you do that?
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:10:30
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Temperature problems again.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
How old are the upper and lower radiator hoses?
> Taking the radiator out
and getting it refurbished is not going to do
any
> harm.
That
comment brought to mind an oddball problem I encountered once. I
had a weird
cooling problem and it turned out one of the hoses had
separated internally
--- it would form a bubble on the inside of the
hose
and block
flow.
The rapid drop in temp indicates something other than just
an
overheating
issue --- we talked about cavitation before but I thought
you said the
pump
had been replaced recently. Flow through the radiator
may be an issue,
the
TIM shows the pump gets it's supply directly from the
lower radiator
hose. If
the radiator is not flowing properly it may limit
the water available to
the pump
which in turn will cause flow
problems.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:50:46
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Temperature problems again.
Still very strange !
I
can't remember but do you have an oil temp gauge ? Do you see
any
change
on it ?
I also heard of a Stealth that had a slipping
water pump. the hotter the
engine bay got the more the pump "slipped" and
coolant was not well
transported. This caused an overheating problem soon
what even resulted
in a
broken plug.
Sorry, still not much of help
but maybe every little is a part to the
puzzle.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch> >From then on,
no matter what I did, I couldn't keep the temps down.
I'd
> let it cool
down to normal temps, and go out again.
> I ran with stock boost. Two
laps, the gauge was up.
> I cruised around in 4th gear (no boost). Two
laps, the gauge was up.
> I drove home at 65 mph, with no boost. I had to
stop every two miles
to
> let it cool off.
>
> The weird
part is, it cools off faster than it goes up. After a few
> minutes, the
gauge will drop like a rock from the red zone to mid
gauge,
> where
it's supposed to be, then slowly climbs back up.
>
> It doesn't act
particularly hot, doesn't steam, doesn't boil over, or
do
> anything
weird. It gurgles a little, but that's normal. Yet the gauge
is
>
pegged high.
>
> I'd think BAD GAUGE, but it's computer
driven.
> I'd think BAD SENSOR but it DID spew some coolant, so the sensor
is
not
> completely incorrect.
> I'd think OUT OF COOLANT, but it
seems to have coolant (not full, by
any
> means, but not empty, either
-- at least there is coolant in the
overflow
> tank).
>
>
It has a reasonably new thermostat (low temp), was flushed out earlier
>
this year, and has all new coolant.
>
> This obviously has nothing
at all to do with boost now. There is
something
> fundamentally wrong
with the cooling system.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 17:59:40
-0400
From: Mark Frouhar <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Big brother
I'm forwarding this from the F-body list. Basically
some cars have
speed
data logging that's being used in court against the
driver of the car.
Does anybody know if the 3000/stealth cars have such
logging equipment
on board?
On 11 Feb 2002 on Union Road in Trotwood,
Ohio, a 1999 Pontiac Trans Am
skidded sideways off the road, went airborne
for 110 feet, and
eventually
hit a utility pole. An estimate of the
car's speed was upgraded after
examining an onboard electronic monitoring
device in the airbag control
mechanism, which pegged the speed at 124 mph (in
a 40-mph zone).
[Source:
*Dayton Daily News*, By Cathy Mong,
cathy_mong@coxohio.com;
PGN-ed]
http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/0822car.html thanks
-Mark Frouhar
95' VR4
The 2700lb 85 TA
http://www.geocities.com/Legoland0***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:04:57
-0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need some help with a popping sound and loss of power
Hey guys, I
am somewhat at a loss. I am trying to help my mother
diagnose the
problem. She was driving the vr-4 when she heard a pop and
a loss of
power. She pulled over and the car stalled. She could turn
the
car over but would need to keep giving it gas or else it would
stall.
If she tried putting it in gear, it would stall. The Y-pipe
is
on. Any other ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:08:00
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need some help with a popping sound and loss
of
power
Might be the idle speed screw in the top of the throttle
body, do you
hear a
loud hissing sound when the car is running (well
trying to stay running)
Russ F
CT
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Joshua G. Prince
[SMTP:joshua@unconundrum.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 6:05
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Need some help with a popping
sound and loss of
> power
>
> Hey guys, I am somewhat at a
loss. I am trying to help my mother
> diagnose the problem.
She was driving the vr-4 when she heard a pop
and
> a loss of
power. She pulled over and the car stalled. She could turn
>
the car over but would need to keep giving it gas or else it would
>
stall. If she tried putting it in gear, it would stall. The
Y-pipe
is
> on. Any other ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:19:28
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need some help with a popping sound and loss
of
power
Sounds to any intercooler pipe in the system.
I'd check
also for cracks !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
To:
"Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:04 AM
Subject: Team3S: Need some help with a
popping sound and loss of power
> Hey guys, I am somewhat at a
loss. I am trying to help my mother
> diagnose the problem.
She was driving the vr-4 when she heard a pop
and
> a loss of
power. She pulled over and the car stalled. She could turn
>
the car over but would need to keep giving it gas or else it would
>
stall. If she tried putting it in gear, it would stall. The
Y-pipe
is
> on. Any other ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 17:19:08
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need some help with a popping sound and loss
of
power
Check the Y pipe again. Look carefully at the very end, where
it turns
right and attaches to the silver box. I've blown off enough Y pipes
to
know that it ain't always obvious when it's off there.
If
not, look at all the other tubing connected to the Y pipe underneath.
If
still no luck, look everything over for any hose -- intercoolers,
vacuum
lines, whatever -- that could have popped off or blown out. It
probably
had something to do with the turbos if it made a noise when it
went and
she suddenly lost power. A vacuum line wouldn't make any noise.
It sure
sounds like she blew off a hose somewhere. Detective Joshua just
has to find
it.
You have a COOL mom. What was she doing? Drag racing a
M5?
Rich/slow old grandpoop
At 06:04 PM 9/9/02 -0400, you
wrote:
>Hey guys, I am somewhat at a loss. I am trying to help my
mother
>diagnose the problem. She was driving the vr-4 when she
heard a pop
and
>a loss of power. She pulled over and the car
stalled. She could turn
>the car over but would need to keep giving
it gas or else it would
>stall. If she tried putting it in gear, it
would stall. The Y-pipe is
>on. Any other
ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:42:14
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: If you are this
IP:
rh-114-163.johnstown.resnet.pitt.edu
May you burn slowly in a
dark hot place.
- -You- are the type that are almost forcing the CAPS
data off the www
server.
Im just about to talk to Bob, and work out a
strategy so that only 1 or
2
of EACH of the files is available everyday to
prevent severe abuse.
Thanks.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:05:39
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big brother
Umpf... I remember that the impact sensors
(G-Sensors) max value are
stored
when the airbag engages. Maybe from this
the speed can be calculated !
BTW, never install an Apexi RSM or Blitz
Power Meter as they also store
the
peak values ;-)
LOL
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Mark Frouhar" <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, September 09, 2002 11:59 PM
Subject: Team3S: Big brother
>
I'm forwarding this from the F-body list. Basically some cars
have
speed
> data logging that's being used in court against the driver
of the car.
> Does anybody know if the 3000/stealth cars have such logging
equipment
> on board?
>
> On 11 Feb 2002 on Union Road in
Trotwood, Ohio, a 1999 Pontiac Trans
Am
> skidded sideways off the
road, went airborne for 110 feet, and
eventually
> hit a utility
pole. An estimate of the car's speed was upgraded after
> examining
an onboard electronic monitoring device in the airbag
control
>
mechanism, which pegged the speed at 124 mph (in a 40-mph
zone).
[Source:
> *Dayton Daily News*, By Cathy Mong,
cathy_mong@coxohio.com;
PGN-ed]
>
http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/0822car.html>
>
thanks
>
> -Mark Frouhar
> 95'
VR4
> The 2700lb 85 TA
>
http://www.geocities.com/Legoland0***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:04:21
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SRS LITE ON
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Figgins"
<
abrman@one.net>
>
My SRS light came on today while driving. Anyone have a good idea
what
to
> do without taking it to a dealer?
This is/was one of the
earliest known 3S problems, covered by any of a
number
of TSBs. The
usual cause is a failing or improperly charging battery
(which
also often
causes a number of other problems). If you ran your
battery
down
lately (A/C and lights on in bumper-to-bumper traffic, or
leaving the
glove
box open - light on - overnight, for example), that
could do it. Try a
full
battery charge (or temporarily switch in a
new, charged battery) and see
if
the light doesn't go away. You
*need* a strong battery in our cars. It
might
possibly be time to
replace yours.
Go to our website and look for your car/year AND you can
also try the
link to
"SRS troubleshooting", on this page:
www.Team3S.com/FAQrecall-tsb.htmIn
a nutshell, if the light stays on, the regimen is to:
A) Install a charged
battery.
B) Turn on the ignition switch and see if the light goes out.
C)
If it does not go out, turn the ignition on and off 10 times.
D) If the SRS
warning light does not go out, erase the diagnostic code,
and
so
on...
It's all on the TSB page.
Good
luck!
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:07:29
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Big brother
Those devices are a total invasion of privacy and I
would NEVER buy a
car
that had one. No S/3's do not have any of the
infamous "black boxes". I
read
an article in '99 about a guy who bought a
top of the line Vette ($50k
or
something) and then found about this new
"feature" and sued Chevy and
the
dealer. Never found out what came of it.
Those things are a complete
Nazi
tactic initiated by the insurance
companies.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Mark Frouhar
Sent: Monday,
September 09, 2002 3:00 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Big brother
I'm forwarding this from the F-body list.
Basically some cars have
speed
data logging that's being used in court
against the driver of the car.
Does anybody know if the 3000/stealth cars
have such logging equipment
on board?
On 11 Feb 2002 on Union Road in
Trotwood, Ohio, a 1999 Pontiac Trans Am
skidded sideways off the road, went
airborne for 110 feet, and
eventually
hit a utility pole. An
estimate of the car's speed was upgraded after
examining an onboard
electronic monitoring device in the airbag control
mechanism, which pegged
the speed at 124 mph (in a 40-mph zone).
[Source:
*Dayton Daily News*, By
Cathy Mong,
cathy_mong@coxohio.com;
PGN-ed]
http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/0822car.html thanks
-Mark Frouhar
95' VR4
The 2700lb 85
TA
http://www.geocities.com/Legoland0***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:08:42
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Need some help with a popping sound and loss of
power
For sure
one of your intercooler pipes pooped off. Trace the 3 big hoses
coming out of
the Y-pipe and follow them around. One of them popped
off
somewhere.
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Joshua G. Prince
Sent:
Monday, September 09, 2002 3:05 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Need some
help with a popping sound and loss of power
Hey guys, I am somewhat at a
loss. I am trying to help my mother
diagnose the problem. She was
driving the vr-4 when she heard a pop and
a loss of power. She pulled
over and the car stalled. She could turn
the car over but would need to
keep giving it gas or else it would
stall. If she tried putting it in
gear, it would stall. The Y-pipe is
on. Any other
ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:18:37
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Big brother
At 07:07 PM 9/9/02 -0700, Tigran Varosyan
wrote:
>Those devices are a total invasion of privacy and I would NEVER
buy a
car
>that had one.
I read an item in the paper a few
weeks back about a guy who rented a
car in Tucson and drove it to Florida and
back (unlimited mileage, of
course). Seems he forgot to tell them he
was taking it out of state.
Using the rental car's GPS, the company
billed $1+/mile against his
credit card for taking it out of state. By the
time he got to Florida
his credit card was tapped out because they had
already billed $3200
against it. To prove that they knew he was out of
state, they gave him
a printout of the exact hotels he stayed at en
route.
He sued and the rental car company backed down.
You
realize, of course, that the next step will be automated traffic
tickets
based on GPS readings. Trucking companies already track
truculent
truckers tremendously tactlessly with onboard GPS equipment,
and police
use photo radars to give us traffic tickets by mail. GPS
tickets are next.
Rich/slow old grandpoop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:45:06
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Pre-Cats
Are there ANY differences in pre-cats with OBD-I and
OBD-II emissions?
Dennis -==- Philly
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:03:55
-0700
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Big brother
I just rented a car from a local place and they
had no problem with
where I
took it....out of state twice over....seems
the usual phrase of read
what
you sign should fit in here somewhere....got
the insurance and had NO
problems what so ever...couple of door dings without
a concern in the
world.
As for the GPS thing that would be already in use
in some
places....doesn't
the On-star system know where you are at all
times? We have several
intersections in the NW with cameras on them sending
pics and ticks to
those
who run the light......I for one like the idea,
how many times have you
sat
at a green light watching dimrods drive
through for the left turn in
front
of you. It interrupts the flow of
things. The truckers that don't keep
right
and block the freeways should
be nailed as well......as for flying into
a
pole and getting shafted for
going too fast? well 120+ in a 40 is too
fast...good thing he didn't fly
through a house and take out a family.
enough is enough...keep it on the
track. I am sure if you don't want a
G-sensor or GPS in your car you could
UN-install just as easy as they
installed it. gotta love those manuals
:)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Monday, September 09, 2002 7:19 PM
To: Tigran Varosyan;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Big brother
At 07:07 PM 9/9/02 -0700, Tigran Varosyan
wrote:
>Those devices are a total invasion of privacy and I would NEVER
buy a
car
>that had one.
I read an item in the paper a few weeks
back about a guy who rented a
car in
Tucson and drove it to Florida and
back (unlimited mileage, of course).
Seems he forgot to tell them he was
taking it out of state.
Using the rental car's GPS, the company billed
$1+/mile against his
credit
card for taking it out of state. By the time
he got to Florida his
credit
card was tapped out because they had already
billed $3200 against it.
To
prove that they knew he was out of state, they
gave him a printout of
the
exact hotels he stayed at en route.
He
sued and the rental car company backed down.
You realize, of course, that
the next step will be automated traffic
tickets
based on GPS readings.
Trucking companies already track truculent
truckers
tremendously
tactlessly with onboard GPS equipment, and police use photo
radars to give us
traffic tickets by mail. GPS tickets are next.
Rich/slow old
grandpoop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:53:57
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Big brother
It seems that on the Vette taking out the Black box
makes the Airbags on
the
car not work. The last time I checked (and it may
have changed by now
with
all the lawsuits) disabling the airbags is
illegal. Furthermore, I do
not
want to pay for stuff I am going to tare
out anyway, I don't want to
spend
time and money tarring it out, and I for
one like my airbag... Ohh yea
and
get this, they are also planning to make
the "black box" as a part of
the
ECU. Take out the box, car dont
work.
In a commercial truck/car I can somewhat understand. If I owned a
truck
that
I had some guy drive for me, I would want him to treat it nice.
He is
being
PAID to treat it nice and to use it as I see fit. It is MY
truck, I can
put
what I want in it. In the case of the car it works the
same way. It is
MY
car, I don't want that garbage in it, I have the right
to not have it.
Good
thing is that this is a consumer driven market. #1
putting in this junk
will
cost car companies money, which means they have
to raise prices, which
makes
their cars less competitive. #2 I don't think
anyone who thinks about it
will buy a sports car with one of those things in
it. Sad fact is that I
bet
people who buy these cars have no
clue...
Far as red light camera tickets, the NMA (of which I am a member
of)
reports
that by their count over 85% of traffic lights are set with a
shorter
than
mandated yellow light. Many cities across America collect
60-80% of
their
income from traffic enforcement. 80% I kid you not! The
SINGLE GREATEST
source of income for the entire state of Oregon is traffic
enforcement!
Ever
wonder why the speed limit in Portland with 4 lanes of
traffic each
direction on I5 is set at 45mph?? Or why on earth a wide open
straight
highway in the middle of nowhere has a 55mph limit and a cop behind
a
billboard?
I do have to agree, 120 over a set of railroad tracks is
not too
bright....
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
Tyson
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Robert Koch
Sent: Monday,
September 09, 2002 8:04 PM
To:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Big brother
I just rented a car from a local place and they
had no problem with
where I
took it....out of state twice over....seems
the usual phrase of read
what
you sign should fit in here somewhere....got
the insurance and had NO
problems what so ever...couple of door dings without
a concern in the
world.
As for the GPS thing that would be already in use
in some
places....doesn't
the On-star system know where you are at all
times? We have several
intersections in the NW with cameras on them sending
pics and ticks to
those
who run the light......I for one like the idea,
how many times have you
sat
at a green light watching dimrods drive
through for the left turn in
front
of you. It interrupts the flow of
things. The truckers that don't keep
right
and block the freeways should
be nailed as well......as for flying into
a
pole and getting shafted for
going too fast? well 120+ in a 40 is too
fast...good thing he didn't fly
through a house and take out a family.
enough is enough...keep it on the
track. I am sure if you don't want a
G-sensor or GPS in your car you could
UN-install just as easy as they
installed it. gotta love those manuals
:)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Monday, September 09, 2002 7:19 PM
To: Tigran Varosyan;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Big brother
At 07:07 PM 9/9/02 -0700, Tigran Varosyan
wrote:
>Those devices are a total invasion of privacy and I would NEVER
buy a
car
>that had one.
I read an item in the paper a few weeks
back about a guy who rented a
car in
Tucson and drove it to Florida and
back (unlimited mileage, of course).
Seems he forgot to tell them he was
taking it out of state.
Using the rental car's GPS, the company billed
$1+/mile against his
credit
card for taking it out of state. By the time
he got to Florida his
credit
card was tapped out because they had already
billed $3200 against it.
To
prove that they knew he was out of state, they
gave him a printout of
the
exact hotels he stayed at en route.
He
sued and the rental car company backed down.
You realize, of course, that
the next step will be automated traffic
tickets
based on GPS readings.
Trucking companies already track truculent
truckers
tremendously
tactlessly with onboard GPS equipment, and police use photo
radars to give us
traffic tickets by mail. GPS tickets are next.
Rich/slow old
grandpoop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:15:12
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Temperature problems again.
Rich / team3s-
I posted awhile ago
with a very similar problem. The problem turned out
to
be air pockets in
the coolant. Remember that your radiator cap has two
pressure caps and a
vacuum relief valve. The vacuum relief valve will
suck
coolant out of the
reserve bottle AFTER your car stops and cools down.
But
if the valve ain't
working right, you will always see coolant in the
reserve
bottle and thus
think you have plenty of coolant. Here's what I did, and
what should help
you.
1) Flush the cooling system
2) Buy a new radiator cap.
They're cheap anyway.
3) Change your hoses if they're getting cracks.
Otherwise, loosen all
the
hose clamps and retighten them to
spec.
4) Put a water wetter mixture (I used 25% coolant + DISTILLED water
+
water
wetter--do whatever floats ur boat)
5) Put a bottle of
BAR'S LEAKS cooling system sealant in there, and
immediately drive at least 5
miles (do not stop engine during this time,
and
keep engine speed below
3500 rpm) and make sure you have the heater on
full
blast while you do
this.
I'm not sure which of the above fixed my problem. I do suspect that
it
was a
leak at the water pump, which the bar's leaks solution sealed
up.
However,
there's no more erratic temp. changes and my car's temp gauge
actually
stabilizes at a lower temp than before, plus unlike before it
doesn't
overheat even if it's a pretty warm day & I use A/C driving
uphill!
Good luck,
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:25:28
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Big brother
Try one of the big fat tinted covers for your back license
plate. You'll
be
eating red lights for breakfast. Be sure you duck if you
went through
the
intersection late too. Part of what they like to mail you
is YOUR
SMILING
FACE driving your car as you pass through the intersection
with the red.
-
------------cut---------------------------->
police use
photo
radars to give us traffic tickets by mail.
-
------------cut---------------------------->
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:54:23
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Big brother
LOL if that's true, it is downright
hilarious
but really, to make it "not as reckless", just make sure
you take a
peek
left and right before you
duck.
Riyan
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:50:14
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: Temperature sensors
Rich,
>> I just don't have a
super-expensive probe so it takes a few seconds
to
>> get a reading
sometimes and I have to take that into consideration.
> This is what
concerns me the most about the measurement. Your table
shows
> that the
rotors get hot while just sitting there in traffic, which
means
> the
slow probe is finally catching up to the correct temperature.
Thanks,
Rich, for pointing out the obvious. I don't think anyone on the
list
has had anything close to a high-temperature probe even remotely
CLOSE to the
brake pad let alone the brake rotors or brake caliper or
brake air duct so
don't shoot down the initial thought on a problem you
have on your car - but
find a probe with less latency, that is 10 feet
long, that can endure temps
of 900 F, and is a K-type connector and I'll
gladly listen to your
advice.
> If your measurements are running 5-10 seconds behind, how
are you
going to
> get any meaningful real-time measurements on track?
Again, this is FAR better than coming off the track into the Hot
Pits,
jumping out of the car, grabbing a pyrometer from the pit wall
(since
you are not supposed to have anything inside the car), measuring
the
temps on one side, running to the other side that is already
cooled
down, measure that side, write them down, get in and buckled, drive
10
mph down the Pits, and enter for another lap. It is certainly
much
easier to pull into the pits, sit for the same two minutes and let
the
thermometer tell you the max reading (agreed that a faster read
time
will help but I could not find any affordable probe that could
be
manufactured to my specified length that was close to the $25 cost
that
these were).
Yes it is not absolutely perfect hot temps on the
track but what this
experiment shows is that the slight forward motion of a
car cools down
the temp probe considerably. Once at speed and hot then
it does little
but I have not yet begun to experiment. As you recall,
your
water-cooling trick at Heartland Park did not yield any faster times
so
I am just doing some experiments before adding brake ducting or
water
cooling to the brakes. I need some baseline numbers other than,
"Well
it felt like it faded after 19 laps instead of just 12." The
technical
list isn't real comfy with "butt dyno" results.
But you
bring up an excellent point. "How can I get any meaningful
real-time
measurements on the track with 5-10 seconds late readings?"
Well it is a
dozen seconds faster than jumping out of the car and
measuring I can assure
you. Plus, 10 seconds late on a hard braking
corner is TONS better than
half a lap later when you've tried to do hard
braking and enter the Hot Pits
and hit the brakes again to heat them up.
> If your meter will take an
infrared input
Again, find me the probe/wire and I'll investigate if it
will work. The
place I located this is unreachable from a single
pointing location that
an infrared device can achieve. You can only
achieve this location with
a piece of fiber optic cable and I don't think
those are in our price
range when setup as an infrared probe. You can
possibly hit the inside
rotor surface or the caliper surface but I've not
seen an affordable and
small infrared device that will fit close enough to
the rotor to achieve
accurate readings yet.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002
10:44
> I just don't have a super-expensive probe so it takes a few
seconds to
>get a reading sometimes and I have to take that into
consideration.
This is what concerns me the most about the measurement.
Your table
shows that the rotors get hot while just sitting there in traffic,
which
means the slow probe is finally catching up to the correct temperature.
4. Braking again for a traffic light = 105
F
5. Sitting for 20 seconds at the light = 190 F
I
suspect that the highest temperature reached was probably 200+
degrees, but
it was only 190 when the sensor caught up.
If your measurements are
running 5-10 seconds behind, how are you going
to get any meaningful
real-time measurements on track?
You can devise tests such as brake like
crazy, come to a stop, and wait
for the sensor to stabilize on the highest
temperature. You can
certainly test the effectiveness of brake ducts or water
spray this way,
but you'll be dealing with the phenomenon of the sensor
coming up to
temperature whilst the brakes are cooling down from a
maximum
temperature. Still, although not exact, you can get enough data to
make
educated analyses.
Since you've gone to all this trouble, it
might be worthwhile to invest
a few more bucks in a probe with a faster
latency time. If your meter
will take an infrared input, you can mount a
fiber optic sensor on the
lower control arm, pointing at the rotor. Some RTDs
and thermistors are
extremely fast, but might not go up to 1500 F. You can
also mount a
spring-loaded thermocouple sensor that physically touches the
rotor and
maintains contact as it rotates.
Maybe somebody on the list
knows a lot more about sensors and latency
times than I do and can steer you
to a nice, fast, inexpensive temp
sensor. Any instrument engineers out
there?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:56:14
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Temperature sensors
Chuck/Rich,
This could be a
combination of these areas so I can't give a definite
answer. Caliper
radiating heat. Rotor giving off heat. Pads giving
off
heat. Wheel/tire giving off heat. It is touching the inside of
the
pad (not the inside but the part that would hit the hub if you
pushed
the pad all the way to the axle) and this is as close as I can
get
without grinding the tip to powder.
When I turn on the device it
is measuring ambient air (unless the
wheels, tires, calipers, and rotor
absorb and then toss off lots of heat
but I doubt this is the case).
Then when I start driving and do not use
the brakes it is not taking brake
temps since the temp goes up about 5
degrees F. This is obviously air
temp or the temp of the hot air
getting slung off the road and onto the
probe. The brakes have not been
used yet so pad temp (if assumed to not
touch the rotors yet) are still
at ambient air temp plus a very little from
the hot air that is now
wafting past them.
Then after the brakes are
used ones the pads heat up, the rotor heats
up, and is now much warmer (120 F
or so) than the ambient air so we know
the air is no longer the hottest part
but it is the pads and rotor.
After a bunch of hard stops and then a dead
stop it is not ambient air
but the heat coming off the pads and rotor that it
is measuring.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002
15:17
He's measuring pad temperature, because the probe is touching the
pad
(his first post). Rich
At 01:08 PM 9/5/02 -0500, Willis,
Charles E. wrote:
>are you really thinking this is latency in the probe or
what Flash is
>measuring is really air temperature near the brake
parts?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:58:40
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Temperature sensors
Chuck,
Because I
don't want to measure the heat absorption of the pad or the
thermal
conductivity of the pad (if you stomp on the brakes once from 60
mph to 0 mph
will the same temp at the pad/rotor surface be the same as
through the pad
and backing plate? I bet not). So I don't want to put
it behind
the pad (between the pad and where the pistons push out from
the
caliper). This will not give me the right temp until the entire pad
and
backing plate are heated to the same temp. By then I'm sure
the
pad/rotor surface is now hotter or cooler than the area behind
the
backing plate.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 05,
2002 15:47
He "thinks" he's measuring pad temperature, because he
"thinks" he has
positive contact with the (back of?) the pad. Based on
his data, its
more reasonable to think he's measuring the air temperature
near the
back of the pad. How about cementing the thermocouple to the
backer?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:14:39
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Temperature sensors
Rich,
> Instead of cementing
(you'd need a cement epoxy to handle 1400 F),
what
> he COULD do would
be to solder the thermocouple to one of the thin
> insulating plates that
fits between the pistons and the pad.
Again, no. This is the wrong
location for such a reading. The idea is
not to get a reading THROUGH
the backing plate of the pad but of the pad
at the rotor surface without
destroying the probe.
> [snip] he's only getting a general idea of
the temperature anyway
Well a general idea of the temp is still a
bazillion times better than
NO idea of the temps. Anyone have some
brake temp readings they can
share with the group? Infrared readings of
the rotor after a session
are fine with me. I doubt anyone will get
readings higher than 600-700
degrees F though. First, you nearly melt
your gloves trying to hold a
thermocouple on this area for 10 seconds.
Second, the infrared ones are
as close as we can get so give up your results
(Chuck - your son was
supposed to have gotten one for you - have you used it
for rotor temps
yet?).
Again, I'm looking for pad temps but rotor
temps are going to be the
easiest to gather (unless the infrared thermometer
has a laser pointer
on it showing where it is reading). I don't know
how much faster or
slower rotors cool off than pads. And we have always
said that the
Porterfield R4 race pads when turned white are close to or
around the
1,200 F - 1,400 F temperature mark. But nobody is
sure. Maybe Andie
Lin can help since he has a brake dyno (or had access
to one before) and
give us ideas of what thermocouples to use, where to mount
them, or
readings he has seen.
After all the arguing is done the
ultimate goal is to located probes on
both front rotor/pad areas and put air
ducting or air ducting and water
cooling on one but not the other, drive
around, shoot them with water,
and see if it helps or if the air alone is
good enough. Then do some
hot laps. I do know that stopping
nullifies all air duct cooling and
water cooling so a stopped car essentially
as no brake cooling help.
How much cooling air ducts and/or water does to
rotors before a turn or
after a turn still remain to be seen
though.
The problem stems from adding brake ducts to a friend's Ferrari
512 TR
(similar in weight to our car) with big brakes up front. Brake
duct on
the passenger front. None on the driver front. After the
brakes felt
as if they were fading the driver came in to the hot pits and two
of us
measured the front rotors. Then he went out again and he came
in. We
switched sides that we measured and recorded all the
results. For some
odd reason the corner with the brake ducts on it was
hotter by about
10-20 degrees (610 F the first time and 565 F the second time
as opposed
to the non-air duct side of about 590 F and 550 F). The
numbers are on
a clipboard in CT so I don't have access to them but those are
not far
off. But that was on two readings and not enough to make a
conclusion
so I wanted to try some on my own while I had a 5-hour drive
to
experiment on.
One conclusion: while driving West from Watkins Glen
(Corning, NY), the
probe told of temperatures about 10-15 degrees higher than
ambient so if
it was the air it was sensing then the air on the inside where
the
pad/rotor nearly meet each other is 10-15 degrees higher than
ambient.
If this was pad temp then while cruising the rotor probably
lightly
touches the pad (or pad touches rotor) enough to increase the heat
in
this area by 10-15 degrees F. That is all I can note and that
nobody
had better dispute it since I don't think anyone else has a
similar
setup. =) And when it rained then the temp dropped but
I'm not
claiming that yet.
Stay tuned for more I'm sure as I run more
experiments.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002
15:52
It doesn't really matter, because the latency time is so big, he's
only
getting a general idea of the temperature anyway. Instead of
cementing
(you'd need a cement epoxy to handle 1400 F), what he COULD do
would be
to solder the thermocouple to one of the thin insulating plates
that
fits between the pistons and the pad. He could solder it in the
middle,
between the pistons, where the T/C would be out of the way, and
then
feed the T/C wire straight up out of the caliper. Can't get much
closer
to the pad than that. \ Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:20:49
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Temperature sensors
Thanks, Dennis. These only go to
500 F and are five feet long but
thanks for the link.
Here are the
requirements for anyone interested:
- Thermocouple capable of at
least 900 F.
- Thermometer capable of at least 900
F.
- Thermocouple cord length of at least 8 (eight)
feet.
- Passenger to read speed and temps so the driver is not
distracted
(this is probably more
of a public service announcement)
- Separate thermocouple or
similar devices for ambient air temps
- Lots of open road to
test several miles of any scenario
I can note my equipment to interested
folk off list so feel free to
inquire.
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis and Anita Moore
[mailto:stealth@quixnet.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002
22:55
What about using a noncontact temperature probe for the
brakes? Here's
a link to one example I found with a Google
search.
http://www.barnant.com/temperature/infrared_probes.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:31:34
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Temperature problems again.
To answer Rich's
question about testing the hoses, the easiest thing to
do is
just replace
them. Also, everyone should know that Rich has removed the
front air
dam from his car, so airflow through his radiator may not be
what
you
think it is.
Chuck Willis
The rapid drop in temp indicates
something other than just an
overheating
issue --- we talked about
cavitation before but I thought you said the
pump
had been replaced
recently. Flow through the radiator may be an issue,
the
TIM shows the
pump gets it's supply directly from the lower radiator
hose.
If the
radiator is not flowing properly it may limit the water available
to
the
pump which in turn will cause flow
problems.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#948
***************************************