Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth    Sunday, August 25 2002    Volume 01 : Number 935




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors

Hi gang,

I have been reading an awful lot about our O2 sensors
lately. Here is my understanding (limited):
The O2 sensors detect O2 levels based on temperature,
altitude, humidity etc... that information is sent to
what? the MAS (Mass Air Sensor?). Which, in turn,
interprets the data and adjusts fuel flow to the
injectors.
Is this basically the way things work?

If I seem to be getting worse MPG then most other VR4
guys, does that mean that one or more O2 sensors may
be malfunctioning? (ie. too much fuel flow - lean,
thus worse fuel economy??)

How many O2 sensors do we have?
How do you test or diagnose them?
How much do new ones cost?

Sorry I am so backwards on this, but there is so much
knowledge in this group...

Thanx guys,
Roger L
F15DOC

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Do You Yahoo!?
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:10:10 -0500
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:  Krankvent hp increase?

On Harleys, which utilize technology which might have been state-of-the-art
in 1792 ; both their pistons go up and down at (almost) the same time.
Thus, they get huge compression/vacuum fluctuations in the oilpan.  A "Krank
Vent" one way venting system allows the Harley engine to create a vacuum in
its pan, even at full throttle WITHOUT any INTAKE manifold vacuum...because
the piston action in the pan can create the vacuum!

Vacuum in the pan allows the ring package, especially the oil ring, to
operate more efficiently; this allows less oil into the combustion chamber
(past the rings) so less detonation/more compression can be used, and/or a
lower tension oil ring for less parasitic drag.  To those who care to know
about it, see current Pro Stock and "fastest street car" type engines, many
of which have a belt driven vacuum pump whose SOLE job is creating a
relatively high vacuum in the crankcase/pan.  Warren Johnson is nobody's
fool :)

On our 3S turbo cars, when the crankcase pressurizes from ring blowby (all
too often due to CRAPPY TOTAL SEAL RINGS), one problem is that oil is forced
past the TURBOCHARGER "sealing area" and into the compressor and/or turbine
section, so we see smoke out the exhaust sometimes.  With vacuum in the pan,
the oil has much less tendency to be forced out and cause smoke clouds.

Of course, we do NOT have a Harley V-Twin with all the pistons going DOWN,
then all going UP at the same time; so we don't get such massive pressure
waves.  On our even-fire V6's one goes up, another goes down, it balances
out pretty nicely...notice when you open the oil cap with engine running
there is NOT a big whooshing of air in and out, back and forth :) thank
goodness.  I know at least one of the Krank Vent salesmen insists we have
the SAME pressure waves as a Harley and so WE ALSO get a good vacuum in the
pan even under BOOST.  I respectfully disagree.  Whatever.
It is a very good product, either way.
JT

From: "Zobel, Kurt" <Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
> Compressing it to where?  The next cylinder over that is on the upstroke?
> This sounds like BS to me.
> I don't see how the KV system could be responsible for even a fraction of
one HP.
> Now as far as preventing overpressure of the crankcase and eliminating
minor oil leaks, seems to work great.
> Kurt

> From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:jlucius@stealth316.com]
> The Krank Vent system does NOT prevent oil from entering the intake track.
ETP
> claims that the partial vacuum created in the crankcase (because *no* air
is
> allowed to enter) increases engine power and response a few percent
because
> power is not wasted compressing air in the crankcase on the downward
piston   stroke.
> Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

> From: "Ken Stanton"
 Well, I could understand in one sense.  If this prevents oil from feeding
> back into the intake like it is supposed to, that would help.  Oil lowers
> the octane rating of the fuel, thereby making more room for knock, which
> retards timing, which....  you get the idea.  Just my 2 hp.
> Ken



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:08:44 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

> For those of you using the Porterfield R4-S or other higher
performance pads
> with Stock Rotors:
>
> Are you guys switching pads for track and street?

I use R4-S pads on the street and switch to R4 pads for the track.
The R4-S pads provide better performance than stock pads but don't
last as long (or maybe I'm driving harder?).  I kept them on for my
first track event and was disappointed
(http://www.team3s.com/RR15.htm), though I admit they weren't fresh
when I started.  The R4 pads operate at higher temperatures and are
therefore not appropriate for the street, but the difference in
performance at the track was significant
(http://www.team3s.com/RR19.htm).

I've also tried Metal Matrix and Abex pads on the street.  Compared
with stock pads, both were dustier, wore faster and provided only a
slight advantage in braking power.  You asked for input from those
with stock rotors, so I should note that I am using cryoed rotors
(warp resistance), racing fluid (boiling resistance) and braided
stainless steel lines (pedal firmness).

- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:31:19 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

In the same vein, I'll be doing a brake job soon, for the first time on the
GT and wonder where the best place to get regular pads is. Mitsu? Definitely
want to avoid serious dust problems. Cost is of course a consideration. How
much are the Porterfields vs stock.

Thx

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jim Matthews
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 1:09 PM
To: bob atkins
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up


> For those of you using the Porterfield R4-S or other higher
performance pads
> with Stock Rotors:
>
> Are you guys switching pads for track and street?

I use R4-S pads on the street and switch to R4 pads for the track.
The R4-S pads provide better performance than stock pads but don't
last as long (or maybe I'm driving harder?).  I kept them on for my
first track event and was disappointed
(http://www.team3s.com/RR15.htm), though I admit they weren't fresh
when I started.  The R4 pads operate at higher temperatures and are
therefore not appropriate for the street, but the difference in
performance at the track was significant
(http://www.team3s.com/RR19.htm).

I've also tried Metal Matrix and Abex pads on the street.  Compared
with stock pads, both were dustier, wore faster and provided only a
slight advantage in braking power.  You asked for input from those
with stock rotors, so I should note that I am using cryoed rotors
(warp resistance), racing fluid (boiling resistance) and braided
stainless steel lines (pedal firmness).

- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:45:39 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Krankvent hp increase?

Have had three VR4s ....... two over 100k original miles ............
 all dry as a bone.   All cars can 'leak' oil with clogged PCV valves.
 This is not necessarily a sign of  high internal pressures
............. unless, of course,  you have really bad rings ;-)

Dennis -==- Philly

>***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>

>



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:47:09 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

Look at it in a different light - would you rather pay $90 instead of
$45 for a set of front pads (prices are not accurate by the way) or
spend $900 in a front bumper because you could not stop fast enough on
the street and plowed into the car in front of you at the traffic
signal?

My R4-S pads have only been on a few months but I feel they will last at
least one full year.  Stock pads lasted about that long and I would MUCH
rather have the safety and reliability for performance stopping on the
street with the PF pads and the difference in price is small when
compared to the results you achieve or the improvement you get.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andre Cerri
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 13:31

In the same vein, I'll be doing a brake job soon, for the first time on
the GT and wonder where the best place to get regular pads is. Mitsu?
Definitely want to avoid serious dust problems. Cost is of course a
consideration. How much are the Porterfields vs stock.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:52:01 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors

Your 'check engine light' should come on if you have a bad O2 sensor.
 Currently I have that problem, but NOT because the O2 sensors are bad
......... I'm cat-less and have OBDII emissions.  The ECU can't 'see' a
difference between the two O2 sensors .............. registers its
complaint with a 'CE' light.  Thinks the cat is bad.  Will be ordering
an ATR dp and cat.

Dennis -==- Philly


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:06:44 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Saner Rear Anti-Sway Bar Installed

Also did some upgrades, but not stage as you did.  More difficult to
gauge what did what.  Here's the list:

Tein HAs .......... softtest setting, lowered car 2.25 inches
Saner front and rear bars
3SX rear upper adjustable control arms ........ camber was a problem
with lowering
OZ F1's  18x9
BFG gForce KDs  245-40x18s

It was interesting to hear your comments about improvements in handling.
 They were almost identical to statements I've made to friends.  The car
sticks so well that the AWD is much more effective in fast corners.
 Very neutral with some amount of lift throttle oversteer.  It is so
difficult to break loose, I, too, really don't want to try on a public
road.  The car is perfectly composed in the corners ......... but a word
of caution ........ the Teins are STIFF .......... the composure fades
as the road get rough.

I think some of the credit has to go to the KDs.  They're great dry
traction tires ......... but then, again, Michelin has a pretty good
reputation in that market.

Dennis -==- Philly


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:15:31 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:  Krankvent hp increase?

See in CAPS below.

xwing wrote:

>On Harleys, which utilize technology which might have been state-of-the-art
>in 1792 ; both their pistons go up and down at (almost) the same time.
>Thus, they get huge compression/vacuum fluctuations in the oilpan.  A "Krank
>Vent" one way venting system allows the Harley engine to create a vacuum in
>its pan, even at full throttle WITHOUT any INTAKE manifold vacuum...because
>the piston action in the pan can create the vacuum!
>
AIR COMPRESSES VERY EASILY UNLIKE FLUIDS ........ NOT A PROBLEM FOR
EVEN A LOWER POWERED ENGINE LIKE A BIKE.

>
>Vacuum in the pan allows the ring package, especially the oil ring, to
>operate more efficiently; this allows less oil into the combustion chamber
>(past the rings) so less detonation/more compression can be used, and/or a
>lower tension oil ring for less parasitic drag.  To those who care to know
>about it, see current Pro Stock and "fastest street car" type engines, many
>of which have a belt driven vacuum pump whose SOLE job is creating a
>relatively high vacuum in the crankcase/pan.  Warren Johnson is nobody's
>fool :)
>
CREATING A VACUUM IN THE PAN LOWERS PRESSURE THROUGHOUT  BOTTOM END.
WHY DOES THAT MAKE THE RINGS MORE EFECTIVE?  THE PCV SYSTEM ON ENGINES
FROM THE EARLY
70'S MAINTAINS THE BOTTOM END AT AROUND ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE OR BELOW.
 IT IS VALVED
SO THAT HIGHER MANIFOLD PRESSURES DO NOT INCREASE PRESSURES INSIDE THE
ENGINE.   THAT'S WHY
YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO CHANGE THE VALVE  ROUTINELY TO ENSURE THE VALVE IS
NOT STICKING
OPEN.  EVEN THEN YOU WILL NOT PRESSURIZE THE CRANKCASE.  THAT CONDITION WILL
JUST REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF CRANKCASE GAS THAT CAN BE BURNED.


>On our 3S turbo cars, when the crankcase pressurizes from ring blowby (all
>too often due to CRAPPY TOTAL SEAL RINGS), one problem is that oil is forced
>past the TURBOCHARGER "sealing area" and into the compressor and/or turbine
>section, so we see smoke out the exhaust sometimes.  With vacuum in the pan,
>the oil has much less tendency to be forced out and cause smoke clouds.
>
THE SMOKE WE SEE ON STOCK ENGINES IS DUE (USUALLY) TO THE RICH FUEL MIXTURE
FROM THE FACTORY.  UPGRADING THE ECU (IMPROVED FUEL MAPPING) TAKES CARE
OF THAT.
AND FORTUNATELY ADD A FAIR AMOUNT OF HPs IN THE PROCESS.

>
>Of course, we do NOT have a Harley V-Twin with all the pistons going DOWN,
>then all going UP at the same time; so we don't get such massive pressure
>waves.  On our even-fire V6's one goes up, another goes down, it balances
>out pretty nicely...notice when you open the oil cap with engine running
>there is NOT a big whooshing of air in and out, back and forth :) thank
>goodness.  I know at least one of the Krank Vent salesmen insists we have
>the SAME pressure waves as a Harley and so WE ALSO get a good vacuum in the
>pan even under BOOST.
>
ASK THAT SALESMAN IF THEY HAVE A CHROME VENT ...... I HEAR THAT GIVES YOU
AN ADDITIONAL  5HP!

DENNIS -==- PHILLY



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:30:24 -0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch drag

This sounds similar to the problem I'm having with my clutch.  I took it in
to a local tranny shop, they said it was a pressure plate that needed to be
replaced.

Which leads to a question: isn't the pressure plate normally replaced when
you replace the clutch?  I had my shop in VA replace my clutch just before I
moved back to IN, less than 5k miles ago.  Did my shop in VA not do
everything they're supposed to on a clutch swap, or did I make a mistake by
not telling them too, or is my current shop whistling in the dark?

Thanks.

Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <pedenkoa@msu.edu>
To: <team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 1:58 AM
Subject: Team3S: Clutch drag


Hey all,

I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting so much clutch drag. I checked
the pedal travel and found it out of spec and fixed it, but after a
while the problem came back. I completely replaced the fluid with
Motul600. Still - no effect. The weird thing is that it seems to get
worse as the clutch heats up. When I first start the car, I can shift
just fine. After a few stoplights, it starts to get harder and harder to
get it into first. If I do a hard(er) launch early on, while it still
shifts normal, it gets much worse right off the bat. I haven't noticed
any wet spots inside, so if the slave cylinder is leaking, it's not
noticeable. I haven't had a chance to see if the fluid level in the
reservoir has dropped to see if there's a leak somewhere in the system.
Other than that, what can it be and what can I do?

BTW - the clutch is an RPS stage 2. The shop that put it in did a s**tty
job and never adjusted the pedal to the changes from the stock clutch to
the rps.

Thanks,

Alex.
'95 VR4

www.kolosy.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:22:15 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:  Krankvent hp increase?

FWIW --- some years ago [ 4 or 5 ] I was reading that F1 engines were running
4 psi absolute for oil pressure. The internals operated in a vacuum to reduce losses
and the low oil pressure was to keep rotational losses [ shear ] to a minimum, at 18,000
rpm little things make a big difference .--- the engine only has to last 200 miles or so.

        Jim Berry
=================================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>


> On Harleys, which utilize technology which might have been state-of-the-art
> in 1792 ;
snip
> lower tension oil ring for less parasitic drag.  To those who care to know
> about it, see current Pro Stock and "fastest street car" type engines, many
> of which have a belt driven vacuum pump whose SOLE job is creating a
> relatively high vacuum in the crankcase/pan.  Warren Johnson is nobody's
> fool :)




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:20:27 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/

R4   DODGE  Stealth 4wd Turbo  91-94       AP531  $149.00   AP532
$119.00
R4S  DODGE  Stealth 4wd Turbo  91-94       AP531  $ 89.00   AP532  $
69.00
R4E  DODGE  Stealth 4wd Turbo  91-94       AP531  $149.00   AP532
$119.00

 R4  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  4/90-5/93   AP531  $149.00   AP532
$119.00
 R4  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  6/93-98     AP531  $149.00   AP631
$119.00
R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  4/90-5/93   AP531  $ 89.00   AP532  $
69.00
R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  6/93-98     AP531  $ 89.00   AP631  $
99.00
R4E  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  4/90-5/93   AP531  $149.00   AP532
$119.00
R4E  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  6/93-98     AP531  $149.00   AP631
$119.00


The same front pads are used for all years, but the rear pads can be
confusing.  My '94 takes AP532, not AP631 (does that mean it was built
prior to 5/93?).  The Porterfield web site has pictures, so it's best
to take a look at the pads you have now and choose the right one
rather than relying on their listing.


- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:47:54 -0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:  Krankvent hp increase?

I imagine if the engine could be sealed and sufficient negative pressure
attained some benefit could be seen.  What do you think the dyno would
read even at the lowest of pressures ......... +.01HP.  The oil pressure
is a different story ........ albeit a tenuous one.  Not something I
would try.

Dennis -==- Philly


fastmax wrote:

>FWIW --- some years ago [ 4 or 5 ] I was reading that F1 engines were running
>4 psi absolute for oil pressure. The internals operated in a vacuum to reduce losses
>and the low oil pressure was to keep rotational losses [ shear ] to a minimum, at 18,000
>rpm little things make a big difference .--- the engine only has to last 200 miles or so.

>

>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:21:29 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors

>> The O2 sensors detect O2 levels based on temperature,
>> altitude, humidity etc... that information is sent to what?
>> the MAS (Mass Air Sensor?).

The oxygen sensors detect the oxygen level in the exhaust stream and compare
it to the oxygen level in the atmosphere. This comparison is performed by an
electrochemical cell that sends a "voltage" to the engine's computer (ECM or
ECU). The temperature of the oxygen sensor affects the output voltage of the
cell. I am not aware that humidity or air pressure (altitude) affect the
cell's voltage output.

>> If I seem to be getting worse MPG then most other VR4
>> guys, does that mean that one or more O2 sensors may
>> be malfunctioning? (ie. too much fuel flow - lean,
>> thus worse fuel economy??)
Maybe.

>> How many O2 sensors do we have?
Two for OBDI 3S models. Four for OBDII 3S models. I am not sure about '94-'95
3S models. There are always two before the "precats" - called "upstream" O2
sensors. OBDII models also have one after each precat to monitor the precat
performance. The upstream sensors are used for A/F control.

>> How do you test or diagnose them?
I have "answer" links to this question on the Tech Page at my web site.

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
To: TEAM 3S <team3s@team3s.com>



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 19:19:21 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

And Geoff Mohler, gemohler@www.speedtoys.com, gives a discount from the
list for ordering them through him.  I think he still might be out of
the country still (touring England with the money I spent on pads,
rotors, and fluid no doubt).  Someone might be filling orders while he
is gone but I think you said your pads had good life left, Mike, so no
immediate hurry to replace them just yet.

You can also find the catalog on Geoff's site, www.speedtoys.com, and it
has rotors, pads, wiper blades, etc.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Matthews
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 17:20
To: cerri@intersystems.com
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/

The same front pads are used for all years, but the rear pads can be
confusing.  My '94 takes AP532, not AP631 (does that mean it was built
prior to 5/93?).  The Porterfield web site has pictures, so it's best to
take a look at the pads you have now and choose the right one rather
than relying on their listing.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:44:17 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch drag

> Which leads to a question: isn't the pressure plate normally replaced when
> you replace the clutch?

As far as I know, clutch kits are supposed to come with a new pressure
plate.  I know the RPS ones do.  Of course you won't be able to tell if the
shop actually used the new pressure plate or just put your old one back in
unless you ask for your old parts.  I always do.


Doug
92 Stealth RT TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:50:58 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:  Krankvent hp increase?

> FWIW --- some years ago [ 4 or 5 ] I was reading that F1 engines were
running
> 4 psi absolute for oil pressure. The internals operated in a vacuum to
reduce losses
> and the low oil pressure was to keep rotational losses [ shear ] to a
minimum, at 18,000
> rpm little things make a big difference .--- the engine only has to last
200 miles or so.

I believe you are reffering to a dry sump setup.  Most race applications use
it.  Here is a link to a description of it.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question331.htm

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions

Hi Everyone: I just changed 4 struts and did an
alignment today & got the following result.
   Front left: actual -0.1 before -0.6  specified
range -0.5 to 0.5
   Front right: actual -0.3 before -1.2 spec. range
- -0.5 to 0.5
   Rear left: actual -1.1 before 0.4 spec. range -0.08
to 0.12
   Rear right: actual 0.06 before 0.13 spec. range
- -0.08 to 0.12
   Front cross camber actual: 0.2 before 0.5
   Front cross caster actual: 0.3 before 0.3
   Total toe actual 0.05 before 1.13 spec. range -0.24
to 0.24
   Rear total toe actual: 0.08 before 0.53 spec. range
- -0.16 to 0.24
   Rear thrust angle actual: -0.02 before 0.13
   And the tech told me my rear left lower control arm
can't be adjust because it sized and won't move. What
does it means? Some figure is out of my understanding
because if the lower control arm won't move, how can
the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
said it's o.k. for now but couple years later it may
become a problem. I am kind of trust him because he's
one of the good tech on the team 3S recommended list.
Also the car feels much better than before.
    2nd question about the suspension. What does the
true function for the ECS system? The shock absorbers
become harder at sport mode. Does it really improve
when cornering? Under both sport & tour mode is using
the same spring, only the shocks get harder but its
using the same spring, how does the shocks against
(help)rolling movements? I still feel my car rolls
even in sport mode even my tires air pressure at
40psi. Anyone got any comments?
   Anthony

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:18:04 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions

Anthony,

I want to know why they made you pay for the alignment when your left
rear is out of spec.  You have -0.08 to +0.12 as the range and they made
it -1.1 which is now out of spec.  Maybe this has to do with the seized
control arm though - did he just say, "Tough" or offer a solution?  Did
you see any unusual wear on the tires?  With toe in the front of +1.13
it should have been wearing a little crooked I would imagine.  Same with
the rear toe.

(Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers together and the rear
numbers together so this will read out of order from the original post.)

As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets.  Anti-squat, anti-dive,
anti-roll, etc.  If you have it in Tour mode but still mash the throttle
from a traffic light then it kicks into Sport mode for the anti-squat
feature.  If you are cruising in Tour mode and nail the brakes on the
Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the anti-dive feature.  Same
thing with cornering.  Simple corners are fine but if it detects a
change of X amount in Y time then it automatically switches to Tour.
The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to be stiffer to prevent
the initially dive or squat or roll attitude of the car.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/o ECS

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Tse
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46

Hi Everyone: I just changed 4 struts and did an alignment today & got
the following result.

Front left:
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
Before: -0.6
Actual: -0.1
Front right:
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
Before: -1.2
Actual: -0.3
Front cross camber
Before: +0.5
Actual: +0.2
Front cross caster
Before: +0.3
Actual: +0.3
Total toe
Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
Before: +1.13
Actual: +0.05

Rear left:
Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
Before: +0.4
Actual: -1.1
Rear right:
Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
Before: +0.13
Actual: +0.06
Rear total toe
Specified range: -0.16 to +0.24
Before: +0.53
Actual: +0.08
Rear thrust angle
Before: +0.13
Actual: -0.02

   And the tech told me my rear left lower control arm can't be adjust
because it sized and won't move. What does it means? Some figure is out
of my understanding because if the lower control arm won't move, how can
the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He said it's o.k. for
now but couple years later it may become a problem. I am kind of trust
him because he's one of the good tech on the team 3S recommended list.
Also the car feels much better than before.
    2nd question about the suspension. What does the true function for
the ECS system? The shock absorbers become harder at sport mode. Does it
really improve when cornering? Under both sport & tour mode is using the
same spring, only the shocks get harder but its using the same spring,
how does the shocks against (help)rolling movements? I still feel my car
rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure at 40psi. Anyone got
any comments?
   Anthony

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions

Actually, the 3000GT has 3 modes on the ECS. Only 2
are controllable but their is actually a third setting
as well that is automated. This mode is selectable in
later model Mitsubishi's, including the wife's
Montero.
Roger L
F15DOC

- --- Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@pobox.com> wrote:
> Anthony,
>
> I want to know why they made you pay for the
> alignment when your left
> rear is out of spec.  You have -0.08 to +0.12 as the
> range and they made
> it -1.1 which is now out of spec.  Maybe this has to
> do with the seized
> control arm though - did he just say, "Tough" or
> offer a solution?  Did
> you see any unusual wear on the tires?  With toe in
> the front of +1.13
> it should have been wearing a little crooked I would
> imagine.  Same with
> the rear toe.
>
> (Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers
> together and the rear
> numbers together so this will read out of order from
> the original post.)
>
> As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets.
> Anti-squat, anti-dive,
> anti-roll, etc.  If you have it in Tour mode but
> still mash the throttle
> from a traffic light then it kicks into Sport mode
> for the anti-squat
> feature.  If you are cruising in Tour mode and nail
> the brakes on the
> Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the
> anti-dive feature.  Same
> thing with cornering.  Simple corners are fine but
> if it detects a
> change of X amount in Y time then it automatically
> switches to Tour.
> The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to be
> stiffer to prevent
> the initially dive or squat or roll attitude of the
> car.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/o ECS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Tse
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46
>
> Hi Everyone: I just changed 4 struts and did an
> alignment today & got
> the following result.
>
> Front left:
> Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -0.6
> Actual: -0.1
> Front right:
> Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -1.2
> Actual: -0.3
> Front cross camber
> Before: +0.5
> Actual: +0.2
> Front cross caster
> Before: +0.3
> Actual: +0.3
> Total toe
> Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
> Before: +1.13
> Actual: +0.05
>
> Rear left:
> Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.4
> Actual: -1.1
> Rear right:
> Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.13
> Actual: +0.06
> Rear total toe
> Specified range: -0.16 to +0.24
> Before: +0.53
> Actual: +0.08
> Rear thrust angle
> Before: +0.13
> Actual: -0.02
>
>    And the tech told me my rear left lower control
> arm can't be adjust
> because it sized and won't move. What does it means?
> Some figure is out
> of my understanding because if the lower control arm
> won't move, how can
> the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
> said it's o.k. for
> now but couple years later it may become a problem.
> I am kind of trust
> him because he's one of the good tech on the team 3S
> recommended list.
> Also the car feels much better than before.
>     2nd question about the suspension. What does the
> true function for
> the ECS system? The shock absorbers become harder at
> sport mode. Does it
> really improve when cornering? Under both sport &
> tour mode is using the
> same spring, only the shocks get harder but its
> using the same spring,
> how does the shocks against (help)rolling movements?
> I still feel my car
> rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure
> at 40psi. Anyone got
> any comments?
>    Anthony
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


__________________________________________________
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:06:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions

I have the bad alignment for only 1 week because I was
waiting for the new struts arrive. Lucky,no visual
uneven wear seen on tire so far. Last week I only ran
like 120 miles. He offers a solution - a new control
arm $100-200 plus labor. Should I go for it, buy from
junk yard or keep it like this? Would it be harmful
for my tires? Any comments welcome.
Anthony

- --- Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@pobox.com> wrote:
> Anthony,
>
> I want to know why they made you pay for the
> alignment when your left
> rear is out of spec.  You have -0.08 to +0.12 as the
> range and they made
> it -1.1 which is now out of spec.  Maybe this has to
> do with the seized
> control arm though - did he just say, "Tough" or
> offer a solution?  Did
> you see any unusual wear on the tires?  With toe in
> the front of +1.13
> it should have been wearing a little crooked I would
> imagine.  Same with
> the rear toe.
>
> (Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers
> together and the rear
> numbers together so this will read out of order from
> the original post.)
>
> As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets.
> Anti-squat, anti-dive,
> anti-roll, etc.  If you have it in Tour mode but
> still mash the throttle
> from a traffic light then it kicks into Sport mode
> for the anti-squat
> feature.  If you are cruising in Tour mode and nail
> the brakes on the
> Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the
> anti-dive feature.  Same
> thing with cornering.  Simple corners are fine but
> if it detects a
> change of X amount in Y time then it automatically
> switches to Tour.
> The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to be
> stiffer to prevent
> the initially dive or squat or roll attitude of the
> car.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/o ECS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Tse
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46
>
> Hi Everyone: I just changed 4 struts and did an
> alignment today & got
> the following result.
>
> Front left:
> Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -0.6
> Actual: -0.1
> Front right:
> Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -1.2
> Actual: -0.3
> Front cross camber
> Before: +0.5
> Actual: +0.2
> Front cross caster
> Before: +0.3
> Actual: +0.3
> Total toe
> Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
> Before: +1.13
> Actual: +0.05
>
> Rear left:
> Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.4
> Actual: -1.1
> Rear right:
> Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.13
> Actual: +0.06
> Rear total toe
> Specified range: -0.16 to +0.24
> Before: +0.53
> Actual: +0.08
> Rear thrust angle
> Before: +0.13
> Actual: -0.02
>
>    And the tech told me my rear left lower control
> arm can't be adjust
> because it sized and won't move. What does it means?
> Some figure is out
> of my understanding because if the lower control arm
> won't move, how can
> the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
> said it's o.k. for
> now but couple years later it may become a problem.
> I am kind of trust
> him because he's one of the good tech on the team 3S
> recommended list.
> Also the car feels much better than before.
>     2nd question about the suspension. What does the
> true function for
> the ECS system? The shock absorbers become harder at
> sport mode. Does it
> really improve when cornering? Under both sport &
> tour mode is using the
> same spring, only the shocks get harder but its
> using the same spring,
> how does the shocks against (help)rolling movements?
> I still feel my car
> rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure
> at 40psi. Anyone got
> any comments?
>    Anthony
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


__________________________________________________
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 08:58:34 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions

>> Actually, the 3000GT has 3 modes on the ECS. Only 2
>> are controllable but their is actually a third setting
>> as well that is automated.
There are two control modes, Sport and Tour, and three internal shock damping
force modes, Soft, Medium, and Hard. In Tour mode, the ECS electronic control
unit selects one of the three damping force modes based on driving conditions.
In Sport mode the damping force mode is always Hard.

The ECS (electronic control suspension) is (basically) completely explained in
the STIM and the factory service manuals. As far as I know, the ECS is the
same for all years of 3S cars (in the models that have it, not all do; for
example it is not available in 1996 Stealth models).

For details, go to Front Suspension section in your service manual or in the
STIM (Chapter 2).

http://www.stealth316.com/2-stim.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
To: team3s@team3s.com



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 09:11:51 -0600
From: "Vic O'Kane" <fiendishhq@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: HELP! need to know where to get replacement engine 3000gt sl '94

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Hey guys,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm in troule - I drive a 94 3000gt sl- I've got a rod knocking- I didn't throw it- but I'm thinking perhaps the cheapest and most effective thing to do rather than rebuilding would be to get a new engine- does anyone know where I can get one at a good price in CO? and if there are other options as far as rebuilding- I've had two mech buddies tell me that rebuilding will be more expensive and that the results may be sort of a shooting match- lemme know what you experts think- I'm in desperate need of advice here....thanx</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c152??PI=44364'>Click Here</a><br></html>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:18:37 -0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: HELP! need to know where to get replacement engine 3000gt sl '94

Do you plan on doing the work yourself?

If you get a good machine shop to do build the engine, then it would not be
any 'shooting match'.

Rebuilding an engine is more expensive than buying a used one, but you
really don't know anything about the used engine.  That's where the
'shooting match' would come into play.

They can ship an engine pretty easily via truck.

To find a good machine shop, go to the local race tracks and talk with some
of the guys with good cars.  The circle track guys should give you some good
leads on a good shop in your area.

You didn't say how many miles you have on the engine, but if it's not worn
too badly, you may not need new pistons or much block work.

Good luck,

Rich

<snip>
I've got a rod knocking- I didn't throw it- but I'm  I've had two mech
buddies tell me that rebuilding will be more expensive and that the results
may be sort of a shooting match-




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #935
***************************************