Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, August 25
2002 Volume 01 : Number
935
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Training Me 101: O2 Sensors
Hi gang,
I have been reading an awful
lot about our O2 sensors
lately. Here is my understanding (limited):
The
O2 sensors detect O2 levels based on temperature,
altitude, humidity etc...
that information is sent to
what? the MAS (Mass Air Sensor?). Which, in
turn,
interprets the data and adjusts fuel flow to the
injectors.
Is
this basically the way things work?
If I seem to be getting worse MPG
then most other VR4
guys, does that mean that one or more O2 sensors
may
be malfunctioning? (ie. too much fuel flow - lean,
thus worse fuel
economy??)
How many O2 sensors do we have?
How do you test or diagnose
them?
How much do new ones cost?
Sorry I am so backwards on this, but
there is so much
knowledge in this group...
Thanx guys,
Roger
L
F15DOC
__________________________________________________
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Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:10:10
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: Krankvent hp increase?
On Harleys, which utilize technology
which might have been state-of-the-art
in 1792 ; both their pistons go up and
down at (almost) the same time.
Thus, they get huge compression/vacuum
fluctuations in the oilpan. A "Krank
Vent" one way venting system
allows the Harley engine to create a vacuum in
its pan, even at full throttle
WITHOUT any INTAKE manifold vacuum...because
the piston action in the pan can
create the vacuum!
Vacuum in the pan allows the ring package, especially
the oil ring, to
operate more efficiently; this allows less oil into the
combustion chamber
(past the rings) so less detonation/more compression can
be used, and/or a
lower tension oil ring for less parasitic drag. To
those who care to know
about it, see current Pro Stock and "fastest street
car" type engines, many
of which have a belt driven vacuum pump whose SOLE
job is creating a
relatively high vacuum in the crankcase/pan. Warren
Johnson is nobody's
fool :)
On our 3S turbo cars, when the crankcase
pressurizes from ring blowby (all
too often due to CRAPPY TOTAL SEAL RINGS),
one problem is that oil is forced
past the TURBOCHARGER "sealing area" and
into the compressor and/or turbine
section, so we see smoke out the exhaust
sometimes. With vacuum in the pan,
the oil has much less tendency to be
forced out and cause smoke clouds.
Of course, we do NOT have a Harley
V-Twin with all the pistons going DOWN,
then all going UP at the same time;
so we don't get such massive pressure
waves. On our even-fire V6's one
goes up, another goes down, it balances
out pretty nicely...notice when you
open the oil cap with engine running
there is NOT a big whooshing of air in
and out, back and forth :) thank
goodness. I know at least one of the
Krank Vent salesmen insists we have
the SAME pressure waves as a Harley and
so WE ALSO get a good vacuum in the
pan even under BOOST. I
respectfully disagree. Whatever.
It is a very good product, either
way.
JT
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
> Compressing it
to where? The next cylinder over that is on the upstroke?
> This
sounds like BS to me.
> I don't see how the KV system could be responsible
for even a fraction of
one HP.
> Now as far as preventing overpressure
of the crankcase and eliminating
minor oil leaks, seems to work
great.
> Kurt
> From: Jeff Lucius
[mailto:jlucius@stealth316.com]
> The Krank Vent system does NOT prevent
oil from entering the intake track.
ETP
> claims that the partial
vacuum created in the crankcase (because *no* air
is
> allowed to
enter) increases engine power and response a few percent
because
>
power is not wasted compressing air in the crankcase on the
downward
piston stroke.
> Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/>
From: "Ken Stanton"
Well, I could understand in one sense. If
this prevents oil from feeding
> back into the intake like it is supposed
to, that would help. Oil lowers
> the octane rating of the fuel,
thereby making more room for knock, which
> retards timing,
which.... you get the idea. Just my 2 hp.
>
Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:08:44
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
> For those of you using the Porterfield
R4-S or other higher
performance pads
> with Stock
Rotors:
>
> Are you guys switching pads for track and
street?
I use R4-S pads on the street and switch to R4 pads for the
track.
The R4-S pads provide better performance than stock pads but
don't
last as long (or maybe I'm driving harder?). I kept them on for
my
first track event and was disappointed
(
http://www.team3s.com/RR15.htm),
though I admit they weren't fresh
when I started. The R4 pads operate
at higher temperatures and are
therefore not appropriate for the street, but
the difference in
performance at the track was significant
(
http://www.team3s.com/RR19.htm).
I've
also tried Metal Matrix and Abex pads on the street. Compared
with
stock pads, both were dustier, wore faster and provided only a
slight
advantage in braking power. You asked for input from those
with stock
rotors, so I should note that I am using cryoed rotors
(warp resistance),
racing fluid (boiling resistance) and braided
stainless steel lines (pedal
firmness).
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:31:19
-0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <
cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
In the same vein, I'll be doing a brake
job soon, for the first time on the
GT and wonder where the best place to get
regular pads is. Mitsu? Definitely
want to avoid serious dust problems. Cost
is of course a consideration. How
much are the Porterfields vs
stock.
Thx
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jim Matthews
Sent: Saturday,
August 24, 2002 1:09 PM
To: bob atkins
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
> For those of you using the
Porterfield R4-S or other higher
performance pads
> with Stock
Rotors:
>
> Are you guys switching pads for track and
street?
I use R4-S pads on the street and switch to R4 pads for the
track.
The R4-S pads provide better performance than stock pads but
don't
last as long (or maybe I'm driving harder?). I kept them on for
my
first track event and was disappointed
(
http://www.team3s.com/RR15.htm),
though I admit they weren't fresh
when I started. The R4 pads operate
at higher temperatures and are
therefore not appropriate for the street, but
the difference in
performance at the track was significant
(
http://www.team3s.com/RR19.htm).
I've
also tried Metal Matrix and Abex pads on the street. Compared
with
stock pads, both were dustier, wore faster and provided only a
slight
advantage in braking power. You asked for input from those
with stock
rotors, so I should note that I am using cryoed rotors
(warp resistance),
racing fluid (boiling resistance) and braided
stainless steel lines (pedal
firmness).
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:45:39
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Krankvent hp increase?
Have had three VR4s ....... two over
100k original miles ............
all dry as a bone. All
cars can 'leak' oil with clogged PCV valves.
This is not necessarily a
sign of high internal pressures
............. unless, of course,
you have really bad rings ;-)
Dennis -==- Philly
>***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:47:09
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
Look at it in a different light - would you
rather pay $90 instead of
$45 for a set of front pads (prices are not
accurate by the way) or
spend $900 in a front bumper because you could not
stop fast enough on
the street and plowed into the car in front of you at the
traffic
signal?
My R4-S pads have only been on a few months but I feel
they will last at
least one full year. Stock pads lasted about that
long and I would MUCH
rather have the safety and reliability for performance
stopping on the
street with the PF pads and the difference in price is small
when
compared to the results you achieve or the improvement you get.
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andre Cerri
Sent:
Saturday, August 24, 2002 13:31
In the same vein, I'll be doing a brake
job soon, for the first time on
the GT and wonder where the best place to get
regular pads is. Mitsu?
Definitely want to avoid serious dust problems. Cost
is of course a
consideration. How much are the Porterfields vs
stock.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:52:01
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors
Your 'check engine light' should
come on if you have a bad O2 sensor.
Currently I have that problem,
but NOT because the O2 sensors are bad
......... I'm cat-less and have OBDII
emissions. The ECU can't 'see' a
difference between the two O2 sensors
.............. registers its
complaint with a 'CE' light. Thinks the
cat is bad. Will be ordering
an ATR dp and cat.
Dennis -==-
Philly
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:06:44
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Saner Rear Anti-Sway Bar Installed
Also did some upgrades,
but not stage as you did. More difficult to
gauge what did what.
Here's the list:
Tein HAs .......... softtest setting, lowered car 2.25
inches
Saner front and rear bars
3SX rear upper adjustable control arms
........ camber was a problem
with lowering
OZ F1's 18x9
BFG
gForce KDs 245-40x18s
It was interesting to hear your comments
about improvements in handling.
They were almost identical to
statements I've made to friends. The car
sticks so well that the AWD
is much more effective in fast corners.
Very neutral with some amount
of lift throttle oversteer. It is so
difficult to break loose, I, too,
really don't want to try on a public
road. The car is perfectly
composed in the corners ......... but a word
of caution ........ the Teins
are STIFF .......... the composure fades
as the road get rough.
I
think some of the credit has to go to the KDs. They're great dry
traction tires ......... but then, again, Michelin has a pretty good
reputation in that market.
Dennis -==- Philly
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:15:31
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Krankvent hp increase?
See in CAPS
below.
xwing wrote:
>On Harleys, which utilize technology which
might have been state-of-the-art
>in 1792 ; both their pistons go up and
down at (almost) the same time.
>Thus, they get huge compression/vacuum
fluctuations in the oilpan. A "Krank
>Vent" one way venting system
allows the Harley engine to create a vacuum in
>its pan, even at full
throttle WITHOUT any INTAKE manifold vacuum...because
>the piston action
in the pan can create the vacuum!
>
AIR COMPRESSES VERY EASILY UNLIKE
FLUIDS ........ NOT A PROBLEM FOR
EVEN A LOWER POWERED ENGINE LIKE A
BIKE.
>
>Vacuum in the pan allows the ring package, especially
the oil ring, to
>operate more efficiently; this allows less oil into the
combustion chamber
>(past the rings) so less detonation/more compression
can be used, and/or a
>lower tension oil ring for less parasitic
drag. To those who care to know
>about it, see current Pro Stock and
"fastest street car" type engines, many
>of which have a belt driven
vacuum pump whose SOLE job is creating a
>relatively high vacuum in the
crankcase/pan. Warren Johnson is nobody's
>fool
:)
>
CREATING A VACUUM IN THE PAN LOWERS PRESSURE THROUGHOUT
BOTTOM END.
WHY DOES THAT MAKE THE RINGS MORE EFECTIVE? THE PCV SYSTEM
ON ENGINES
FROM THE EARLY
70'S MAINTAINS THE BOTTOM END AT AROUND
ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE OR BELOW.
IT IS VALVED
SO THAT HIGHER MANIFOLD
PRESSURES DO NOT INCREASE PRESSURES INSIDE THE
ENGINE. THAT'S
WHY
YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO CHANGE THE VALVE ROUTINELY TO ENSURE THE VALVE
IS
NOT STICKING
OPEN. EVEN THEN YOU WILL NOT PRESSURIZE THE
CRANKCASE. THAT CONDITION WILL
JUST REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF CRANKCASE GAS
THAT CAN BE BURNED.
>On our 3S turbo cars, when the crankcase
pressurizes from ring blowby (all
>too often due to CRAPPY TOTAL SEAL
RINGS), one problem is that oil is forced
>past the TURBOCHARGER "sealing
area" and into the compressor and/or turbine
>section, so we see smoke out
the exhaust sometimes. With vacuum in the pan,
>the oil has much
less tendency to be forced out and cause smoke clouds.
>
THE SMOKE WE
SEE ON STOCK ENGINES IS DUE (USUALLY) TO THE RICH FUEL MIXTURE
FROM THE
FACTORY. UPGRADING THE ECU (IMPROVED FUEL MAPPING) TAKES CARE
OF
THAT.
AND FORTUNATELY ADD A FAIR AMOUNT OF HPs IN THE
PROCESS.
>
>Of course, we do NOT have a Harley V-Twin with all
the pistons going DOWN,
>then all going UP at the same time; so we don't
get such massive pressure
>waves. On our even-fire V6's one goes up,
another goes down, it balances
>out pretty nicely...notice when you open
the oil cap with engine running
>there is NOT a big whooshing of air in
and out, back and forth :) thank
>goodness. I know at least one of
the Krank Vent salesmen insists we have
>the SAME pressure waves as a
Harley and so WE ALSO get a good vacuum in the
>pan even under
BOOST.
>
ASK THAT SALESMAN IF THEY HAVE A CHROME VENT ...... I HEAR
THAT GIVES YOU
AN ADDITIONAL 5HP!
DENNIS -==-
PHILLY
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:30:24
-0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Clutch drag
This sounds similar to the problem I'm having with my
clutch. I took it in
to a local tranny shop, they said it was a
pressure plate that needed to be
replaced.
Which leads to a question:
isn't the pressure plate normally replaced when
you replace the clutch?
I had my shop in VA replace my clutch just before I
moved back to IN, less
than 5k miles ago. Did my shop in VA not do
everything they're supposed
to on a clutch swap, or did I make a mistake by
not telling them too, or is
my current shop whistling in the dark?
Thanks.
Dennis Moore
93
Stealth ES
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
pedenkoa@msu.edu>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
August 21, 2002 1:58 AM
Subject: Team3S: Clutch drag
Hey
all,
I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting so much clutch drag. I
checked
the pedal travel and found it out of spec and fixed it, but after
a
while the problem came back. I completely replaced the fluid
with
Motul600. Still - no effect. The weird thing is that it seems to
get
worse as the clutch heats up. When I first start the car, I can
shift
just fine. After a few stoplights, it starts to get harder and harder
to
get it into first. If I do a hard(er) launch early on, while it
still
shifts normal, it gets much worse right off the bat. I haven't
noticed
any wet spots inside, so if the slave cylinder is leaking, it's
not
noticeable. I haven't had a chance to see if the fluid level in
the
reservoir has dropped to see if there's a leak somewhere in the
system.
Other than that, what can it be and what can I do?
BTW - the
clutch is an RPS stage 2. The shop that put it in did a s**tty
job and never
adjusted the pedal to the changes from the stock clutch to
the
rps.
Thanks,
Alex.
'95 VR4
www.kolosy.com*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:22:15
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Krankvent hp increase?
FWIW --- some years ago [ 4 or 5 ] I was
reading that F1 engines were running
4 psi absolute for oil pressure. The
internals operated in a vacuum to reduce losses
and the low oil pressure was
to keep rotational losses [ shear ] to a minimum, at 18,000
rpm little things
make a big difference .--- the engine only has to last 200 miles or
so.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
> On
Harleys, which utilize technology which might have been state-of-the-art
>
in 1792 ;
snip
> lower tension oil ring for less parasitic drag.
To those who care to know
> about it, see current Pro Stock and "fastest
street car" type engines, many
> of which have a belt driven vacuum pump
whose SOLE job is creating a
> relatively high vacuum in the
crankcase/pan. Warren Johnson is nobody's
> fool
:)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:20:27
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/R4
DODGE Stealth 4wd Turbo 91-94
AP531 $149.00 AP532
$119.00
R4S DODGE
Stealth 4wd Turbo 91-94 AP531 $
89.00 AP532 $
69.00
R4E DODGE Stealth 4wd
Turbo 91-94 AP531
$149.00 AP532
$119.00
R4 MITSUBISHI 3000
GT VR-4 4/90-5/93 AP531 $149.00
AP532
$119.00
R4 MITSUBISHI 3000 GT VR-4
6/93-98 AP531 $149.00
AP631
$119.00
R4S MITSUBISHI 3000 GT VR-4
4/90-5/93 AP531 $ 89.00 AP532
$
69.00
R4S MITSUBISHI 3000 GT VR-4
6/93-98 AP531 $ 89.00 AP631
$
99.00
R4E MITSUBISHI 3000 GT VR-4
4/90-5/93 AP531 $149.00
AP532
$119.00
R4E MITSUBISHI 3000 GT VR-4
6/93-98 AP531 $149.00
AP631
$119.00
The same front pads are used for all years, but the
rear pads can be
confusing. My '94 takes AP532, not AP631 (does that
mean it was built
prior to 5/93?). The Porterfield web site has
pictures, so it's best
to take a look at the pads you have now and choose the
right one
rather than relying on their listing.
- - --
Jim
Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:47:54
-0400
From: Dennis Ninneman <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Krankvent hp increase?
I imagine if the engine
could be sealed and sufficient negative pressure
attained some benefit could
be seen. What do you think the dyno would
read even at the lowest of
pressures ......... +.01HP. The oil pressure
is a different story
........ albeit a tenuous one. Not something I
would
try.
Dennis -==- Philly
fastmax wrote:
>FWIW ---
some years ago [ 4 or 5 ] I was reading that F1 engines were running
>4
psi absolute for oil pressure. The internals operated in a vacuum to reduce
losses
>and the low oil pressure was to keep rotational losses [ shear ]
to a minimum, at 18,000
>rpm little things make a big difference .--- the
engine only has to last 200 miles or so.
>
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:21:29
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Training Me 101: O2 Sensors
>> The O2 sensors detect O2
levels based on temperature,
>> altitude, humidity etc... that
information is sent to what?
>> the MAS (Mass Air Sensor?).
The
oxygen sensors detect the oxygen level in the exhaust stream and compare
it
to the oxygen level in the atmosphere. This comparison is performed by an
electrochemical cell that sends a "voltage" to the engine's computer (ECM or
ECU). The temperature of the oxygen sensor affects the output voltage of the
cell. I am not aware that humidity or air pressure (altitude) affect the
cell's voltage output.
>> If I seem to be getting worse MPG
then most other VR4
>> guys, does that mean that one or more O2 sensors
may
>> be malfunctioning? (ie. too much fuel flow - lean,
>>
thus worse fuel economy??)
Maybe.
>> How many O2 sensors do we
have?
Two for OBDI 3S models. Four for OBDII 3S models. I am not sure about
'94-'95
3S models. There are always two before the "precats" - called
"upstream" O2
sensors. OBDII models also have one after each precat to
monitor the precat
performance. The upstream sensors are used for A/F
control.
>> How do you test or diagnose them?
I have "answer"
links to this question on the Tech Page at my web site.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/-
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Team3S: Training Me 101:
O2 Sensors
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig
<
yiotta@yahoo.com>
To: TEAM 3S
<
team3s@team3s.com>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 19:19:21
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
And Geoff Mohler,
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com, gives a
discount from the
list for ordering them through him. I think he still
might be out of
the country still (touring England with the money I spent on
pads,
rotors, and fluid no doubt). Someone might be filling orders
while he
is gone but I think you said your pads had good life left, Mike, so
no
immediate hurry to replace them just yet.
You can also find the
catalog on Geoff's site,
www.speedtoys.com, and it
has rotors,
pads, wiper blades, etc.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Matthews
Sent: Saturday,
August 24, 2002 17:20
To:
cerri@intersystems.comCc:
Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake fade follow-up
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/The
same front pads are used for all years, but the rear pads can
be
confusing. My '94 takes AP532, not AP631 (does that mean it was
built
prior to 5/93?). The Porterfield web site has pictures, so it's
best to
take a look at the pads you have now and choose the right one
rather
than relying on their listing.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:44:17
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Clutch drag
> Which leads to a question: isn't the
pressure plate normally replaced when
> you replace the clutch?
As
far as I know, clutch kits are supposed to come with a new
pressure
plate. I know the RPS ones do. Of course you won't be
able to tell if the
shop actually used the new pressure plate or just put
your old one back in
unless you ask for your old parts. I always
do.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:50:58
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Krankvent hp increase?
> FWIW --- some years ago
[ 4 or 5 ] I was reading that F1 engines were
running
> 4 psi absolute
for oil pressure. The internals operated in a vacuum to
reduce losses
>
and the low oil pressure was to keep rotational losses [ shear ] to
a
minimum, at 18,000
> rpm little things make a big difference .--- the
engine only has to last
200 miles or so.
I believe you are reffering
to a dry sump setup. Most race applications use
it. Here is a
link to a description of it.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question331.htmDoug
92
Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:46:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Alignment & suspenion questions
Hi Everyone: I just changed 4 struts
and did an
alignment today & got the following result.
Front left: actual -0.1 before -0.6 specified
range -0.5 to
0.5
Front right: actual -0.3 before -1.2 spec. range
- -0.5
to 0.5
Rear left: actual -1.1 before 0.4 spec. range -0.08
to
0.12
Rear right: actual 0.06 before 0.13 spec. range
- -0.08
to 0.12
Front cross camber actual: 0.2 before
0.5
Front cross caster actual: 0.3 before 0.3
Total toe actual 0.05 before 1.13 spec. range -0.24
to 0.24
Rear total toe actual: 0.08 before 0.53 spec. range
- -0.16 to
0.24
Rear thrust angle actual: -0.02 before 0.13
And the tech told me my rear left lower control arm
can't be adjust because
it sized and won't move. What
does it means? Some figure is out of my
understanding
because if the lower control arm won't move, how can
the
actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
said it's o.k. for now but
couple years later it may
become a problem. I am kind of trust him because
he's
one of the good tech on the team 3S recommended list.
Also the car
feels much better than before.
2nd question about the
suspension. What does the
true function for the ECS system? The shock
absorbers
become harder at sport mode. Does it really improve
when
cornering? Under both sport & tour mode is using
the same spring, only
the shocks get harder but its
using the same spring, how does the shocks
against
(help)rolling movements? I still feel my car rolls
even in sport
mode even my tires air pressure at
40psi. Anyone got any
comments?
Anthony
__________________________________________________
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Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:18:04
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions
Anthony,
I want to
know why they made you pay for the alignment when your left
rear is out of
spec. You have -0.08 to +0.12 as the range and they made
it -1.1 which
is now out of spec. Maybe this has to do with the seized
control arm
though - did he just say, "Tough" or offer a solution? Did
you see any
unusual wear on the tires? With toe in the front of +1.13
it should
have been wearing a little crooked I would imagine. Same with
the rear
toe.
(Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers together and the
rear
numbers together so this will read out of order from the original
post.)
As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets. Anti-squat,
anti-dive,
anti-roll, etc. If you have it in Tour mode but still mash
the throttle
from a traffic light then it kicks into Sport mode for the
anti-squat
feature. If you are cruising in Tour mode and nail the
brakes on the
Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the anti-dive
feature. Same
thing with cornering. Simple corners are fine but
if it detects a
change of X amount in Y time then it automatically switches
to Tour.
The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to be stiffer to
prevent
the initially dive or squat or roll attitude of the car.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/o ECS
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Anthony Tse
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46
Hi Everyone: I just
changed 4 struts and did an alignment today & got
the following
result.
Front left:
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
Before:
-0.6
Actual: -0.1
Front right:
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
Before:
-1.2
Actual: -0.3
Front cross camber
Before: +0.5
Actual:
+0.2
Front cross caster
Before: +0.3
Actual: +0.3
Total
toe
Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
Before: +1.13
Actual:
+0.05
Rear left:
Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
Before:
+0.4
Actual: -1.1
Rear right:
Specified range: -0.08 to
+0.12
Before: +0.13
Actual: +0.06
Rear total toe
Specified range:
-0.16 to +0.24
Before: +0.53
Actual: +0.08
Rear thrust angle
Before:
+0.13
Actual: -0.02
And the tech told me my rear left
lower control arm can't be adjust
because it sized and won't move. What does
it means? Some figure is out
of my understanding because if the lower control
arm won't move, how can
the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
said it's o.k. for
now but couple years later it may become a problem. I am
kind of trust
him because he's one of the good tech on the team 3S
recommended list.
Also the car feels much better than before.
2nd question about the suspension. What does the true
function for
the ECS system? The shock absorbers become harder at sport mode.
Does it
really improve when cornering? Under both sport & tour mode is
using the
same spring, only the shocks get harder but its using the same
spring,
how does the shocks against (help)rolling movements? I still feel my
car
rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure at 40psi. Anyone
got
any comments?
Anthony
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:58:10
-0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Alignment & suspenion questions
Actually, the 3000GT has 3 modes on
the ECS. Only 2
are controllable but their is actually a third setting
as
well that is automated. This mode is selectable in
later model Mitsubishi's,
including the wife's
Montero.
Roger L
F15DOC
- --- Darren
Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
wrote:
> Anthony,
>
> I want to know why they made you pay
for the
> alignment when your left
> rear is out of spec. You
have -0.08 to +0.12 as the
> range and they made
> it -1.1 which is
now out of spec. Maybe this has to
> do with the seized
>
control arm though - did he just say, "Tough" or
> offer a solution?
Did
> you see any unusual wear on the tires? With toe in
> the
front of +1.13
> it should have been wearing a little crooked I
would
> imagine. Same with
> the rear toe.
>
>
(Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers
> together and the
rear
> numbers together so this will read out of order from
> the
original post.)
>
> As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets.
> Anti-squat, anti-dive,
> anti-roll, etc. If you have it in
Tour mode but
> still mash the throttle
> from a traffic light then
it kicks into Sport mode
> for the anti-squat
> feature. If
you are cruising in Tour mode and nail
> the brakes on the
>
Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the
> anti-dive feature.
Same
> thing with cornering. Simple corners are fine but
> if
it detects a
> change of X amount in Y time then it automatically
>
switches to Tour.
> The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to
be
> stiffer to prevent
> the initially dive or squat or roll
attitude of the
> car.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/o
ECS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony
Tse
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46
>
> Hi Everyone:
I just changed 4 struts and did an
> alignment today & got
> the
following result.
>
> Front left:
> Specified range: -0.5 to
+0.5
> Before: -0.6
> Actual: -0.1
> Front right:
>
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -1.2
> Actual: -0.3
>
Front cross camber
> Before: +0.5
> Actual: +0.2
> Front cross
caster
> Before: +0.3
> Actual: +0.3
> Total toe
>
Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
> Before: +1.13
> Actual:
+0.05
>
> Rear left:
> Specified range: -0.08 to
+0.12
> Before: +0.4
> Actual: -1.1
> Rear right:
>
Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.13
> Actual:
+0.06
> Rear total toe
> Specified range: -0.16 to +0.24
>
Before: +0.53
> Actual: +0.08
> Rear thrust angle
> Before:
+0.13
> Actual: -0.02
>
> And the tech told
me my rear left lower control
> arm can't be adjust
> because it
sized and won't move. What does it means?
> Some figure is out
> of
my understanding because if the lower control arm
> won't move, how
can
> the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
> said it's
o.k. for
> now but couple years later it may become a problem.
> I
am kind of trust
> him because he's one of the good tech on the team
3S
> recommended list.
> Also the car feels much better than before.
> 2nd question about the suspension. What does
the
> true function for
> the ECS system? The shock absorbers become
harder at
> sport mode. Does it
> really improve when cornering?
Under both sport &
> tour mode is using the
> same spring, only
the shocks get harder but its
> using the same spring,
> how does
the shocks against (help)rolling movements?
> I still feel my car
>
rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure
> at 40psi. Anyone
got
> any comments?
> Anthony
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:06:02
-0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions
I have the bad alignment for
only 1 week because I was
waiting for the new struts arrive. Lucky,no
visual
uneven wear seen on tire so far. Last week I only ran
like 120
miles. He offers a solution - a new control
arm $100-200 plus labor. Should I
go for it, buy from
junk yard or keep it like this? Would it be
harmful
for my tires? Any comments welcome.
Anthony
- --- Darren
Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
wrote:
> Anthony,
>
> I want to know why they made you pay
for the
> alignment when your left
> rear is out of spec. You
have -0.08 to +0.12 as the
> range and they made
> it -1.1 which is
now out of spec. Maybe this has to
> do with the seized
>
control arm though - did he just say, "Tough" or
> offer a solution?
Did
> you see any unusual wear on the tires? With toe in
> the
front of +1.13
> it should have been wearing a little crooked I
would
> imagine. Same with
> the rear toe.
>
>
(Note: I edited the email to put the front numbers
> together and the
rear
> numbers together so this will read out of order from
> the
original post.)
>
> As for ECS there are all sorts of gadgets.
> Anti-squat, anti-dive,
> anti-roll, etc. If you have it in
Tour mode but
> still mash the throttle
> from a traffic light then
it kicks into Sport mode
> for the anti-squat
> feature. If
you are cruising in Tour mode and nail
> the brakes on the
>
Interstate then it goes into Sport mode for the
> anti-dive feature.
Same
> thing with cornering. Simple corners are fine but
> if
it detects a
> change of X amount in Y time then it automatically
>
switches to Tour.
> The Springs are the same but the Shock is told to
be
> stiffer to prevent
> the initially dive or squat or roll
attitude of the
> car.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/o
ECS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony
Tse
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 23:46
>
> Hi Everyone:
I just changed 4 struts and did an
> alignment today & got
> the
following result.
>
> Front left:
> Specified range: -0.5 to
+0.5
> Before: -0.6
> Actual: -0.1
> Front right:
>
Specified range: -0.5 to +0.5
> Before: -1.2
> Actual: -0.3
>
Front cross camber
> Before: +0.5
> Actual: +0.2
> Front cross
caster
> Before: +0.3
> Actual: +0.3
> Total toe
>
Specified range: -0.24 to +0.24
> Before: +1.13
> Actual:
+0.05
>
> Rear left:
> Specified range: -0.08 to
+0.12
> Before: +0.4
> Actual: -1.1
> Rear right:
>
Specified range: -0.08 to +0.12
> Before: +0.13
> Actual:
+0.06
> Rear total toe
> Specified range: -0.16 to +0.24
>
Before: +0.53
> Actual: +0.08
> Rear thrust angle
> Before:
+0.13
> Actual: -0.02
>
> And the tech told
me my rear left lower control
> arm can't be adjust
> because it
sized and won't move. What does it means?
> Some figure is out
> of
my understanding because if the lower control arm
> won't move, how
can
> the actual become worse than before(rear left)? He
> said it's
o.k. for
> now but couple years later it may become a problem.
> I
am kind of trust
> him because he's one of the good tech on the team
3S
> recommended list.
> Also the car feels much better than before.
> 2nd question about the suspension. What does
the
> true function for
> the ECS system? The shock absorbers become
harder at
> sport mode. Does it
> really improve when cornering?
Under both sport &
> tour mode is using the
> same spring, only
the shocks get harder but its
> using the same spring,
> how does
the shocks against (help)rolling movements?
> I still feel my car
>
rolls even in sport mode even my tires air pressure
> at 40psi. Anyone
got
> any comments?
> Anthony
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 08:58:34
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Alignment & suspenion questions
>> Actually, the
3000GT has 3 modes on the ECS. Only 2
>> are controllable but their is
actually a third setting
>> as well that is automated.
There are
two control modes, Sport and Tour, and three internal shock damping
force
modes, Soft, Medium, and Hard. In Tour mode, the ECS electronic control
unit
selects one of the three damping force modes based on driving conditions.
In
Sport mode the damping force mode is always Hard.
The ECS (electronic
control suspension) is (basically) completely explained in
the STIM and the
factory service manuals. As far as I know, the ECS is the
same for all years
of 3S cars (in the models that have it, not all do; for
example it is not
available in 1996 Stealth models).
For details, go to Front Suspension
section in your service manual or in the
STIM (Chapter 2).
http://www.stealth316.com/2-stim.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/-
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alignment
& suspenion questions
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:58:10 -0700
(PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
To:
team3s@team3s.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 09:11:51
-0600
From: "Vic O'Kane" <
fiendishhq@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: HELP! need to know where to get replacement engine 3000gt sl
'94
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Hey
guys,</DIV>
<DIV>
I'm in troule - I drive a 94 3000gt sl- I've got a rod knocking- I didn't throw
it- but I'm thinking perhaps the cheapest and most effective thing to do rather
than rebuilding would be to get a new engine- does anyone know where I can get
one at a good price in CO? and if there are other options as far as rebuilding-
I've had two mech buddies tell me that rebuilding will be more expensive and
that the results may be sort of a shooting match- lemme know what you experts
think- I'm in desperate need of advice
here....thanx</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and
receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a
href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c152??PI=44364'>Click
Here</a><br></html>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:18:37
-0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: HELP! need to know where to get replacement engine 3000gt sl
'94
Do you plan on doing the work yourself?
If you get a good
machine shop to do build the engine, then it would not be
any 'shooting
match'.
Rebuilding an engine is more expensive than buying a used one,
but you
really don't know anything about the used engine. That's where
the
'shooting match' would come into play.
They can ship an engine
pretty easily via truck.
To find a good machine shop, go to the local
race tracks and talk with some
of the guys with good cars. The circle
track guys should give you some good
leads on a good shop in your
area.
You didn't say how many miles you have on the engine, but if it's
not worn
too badly, you may not need new pistons or much block
work.
Good luck,
Rich
<snip>
I've got a rod
knocking- I didn't throw it- but I'm I've had two mech
buddies tell me
that rebuilding will be more expensive and that the results
may be sort of a
shooting match-
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#935
***************************************