Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth    Tuesday, August 6 2002    Volume 01 : Number 917




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 01:51:17 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <pedenkoa@msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

These prices should be pretty close to Stealth prices -

60k service - $400, done myself with replacing everything that is
recommended (all belts, NGK Platinum plugs, plug wires, gaskets, water
pump and the like). NT prices should be lower - the alternator belt is
$10 less, I'm thinking the SOHC timing belt costs less also (the DOHC
costs $150), etc. Probably mid 300's for parts (at teams3s discount
prices). This should be a major consideration in the price of your
stealth. If it hasn't been done, it's a major bargaining point.
Obviously done every 60 thousand miles. If you don't do it at that
interval, you're asking for trouble and a very costly breakdown.

Oil changes for quality oil (the capacity of a TT car is only slightly
larger due to the oil cooler and whatever is in the turbos themselves) -
roughly $25 for 6qts of mobil1 full synth (my vr4 took 4 qts, so you'll
probably need less) + 5 bucks for the filter and a buck for the
collapsible gasket on the oil drain plug. You can obviously get cheaper
oil, but I don't think very many people on this list would recommend it.
Every 3,000 miles.

Brake pads - < 100 bucks for an axle set from Geoff Mohler. I believe
about 140 for both. How often you replace them depends on how you drive.
I drive pretty hard, and have a heavier car and still have the pads that
came on it (bought the car a year/18k mi ago) w/o the wear limiter
kicking in

Brake rotors - again, depends on how you drive. If you're sane, you'll
rarely (if ever) need more than turning the rotors, which if you take
them off yourself can cost as little as $20 per axle set (depends on the
shop). New ones depend on what you get. I've seen prices as low as $50
per rotor.

I believe that's the real major maintenances that everybody has to do
sooner or later. Do the math. Everything else is usually unforeseen
issues that result in additional costs. I really couldn't tell you how
much things cost on the bases. I don't think the bases have as big of a
problem with the transmissions, but that's definitely something to watch
out for.

My personal recommendation would be to buy an older tt or vr4 over a
newer base. I don't know if that's applicable in your situation, but you
get so much more for your money. Besides, if weather is an issue, the
AWD will make things that much more safe. The RT TT/VR4 is a much more
stable (in my opinion) car that the base. It's heavier, has more "fun"
things (like an automatic climate control system that I like better than
those people have in their BMWs and Mercedes), the awd, and of course
the turbos. But that's a different issue all together.

I'm sure I haven't covered everything, but I'm assuming other people
will chime in...

Alex

'95 VR4

www.kolosy.com

<snip>
   In any case, I was wondering if anyone could post up their
maintenance
cost logs and any other noteworthy expense logs that they have.
Including
gas/oil changes/engine work and so on and so on.
</snip>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:48:50 -0400
From: "SWC" <swc@centurytel.net>
Subject: Team3S: Repainting door chrome trim on RT?

Hey all,

The paint on the chrome trim at the top of the drivers door on my 92 RT TT
is flaking and peeling off.

Any tips on how to fix this?  Its a textured paint, so I don't want to just
use a standard spray-bomb.

Also - how to I prep the chrome to make the paint stick?  I don't want to
sand it, as it looks like it was not sanded from the factory (or maybe its
supposed to be and that's why my paint is coming off)

Thanks,

Steve C.
92 RT TT



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:33:58 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject: Team3S: Intake Pressure Testing Question.

Sunday I checked for leaks and found a few and after fixing them noticed
I was getting a lot of pressure in the valve cover. The motor was cold
so would this be normal? The only thing I could think is my rings could
be bad? The motor was just rebuilt 800 mi ago.

Thanks for any help.

Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder BPU



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:48:16 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?

I purchased a brakeline kit and have an issue with it that needs to
be resolved. Does anyone know how to contact Geoff Mohler? He seems
to be out of the country for a month and I can't wait for this. I
can't believe issues will be unaddressed for a month till his return.
Does he have a #2 guy to take of things while he is out?

As for the technical question.....is there another source for line
fittings for these brake kits...I am thinking I am going to be on a
waiting list for 3-4 weeks till I can get my fitting replaced. I need
the fitting that gets C-clipped..there are 8 of them in the kit...1
of mine was bad...the seal cone is not there...made incorrectly and
will not fit or work. My car is dead till this fitting is replaced..
any help would be greatly appreciated

bobk.
dead 93 R/T



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:58:51 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: Track Overheating Update (continued)

Dear pals,

I have an new data point to share about overheating on the track with 2nd
generation VR4's under high boost.

I drove three sessions Saturday at Texas World Speedway with my boost
controller set to about 9 psi boost.  Fourth session I drove with 14.7 psi
boost.  No overheating.  Temperature at the track was in the high 90's.

Sunday, I drove four sessions with the boost set at 14.7.  In the second to
last session, I noticed the oil pressure stable at a lower than usual
location, but no overheating.  In the last session, I saw a little more
reduction in oil pressure, but no overheating until the middle of the
session.  Exactly as reported by others and seen by me on a couple of
occasions, the temperature gauge climbed from it's usual location at about
1/3 of full scale, to about 2/3 of full scale and sat there, even while
travelling at constant velocity (120-125 mph in 4th gear) along the front
straight. It returned to the normal place somewhere around Turn 3, a 90
degree right hander, where the you are at WOT at the exit, just lower speed
and in third gear.

When I finished the session and let the car cool (I run a turbo timer), I
checked the oil level.  I was 1 guart low.  Added a quart and oil pressure
was back to the normal place for the 90 mile drive home.

Anyone else noticed oil pressure and oil level changes in advance of the
mysterious temperature gauge movment?

Chuck Willis

BTW my lap times weren't any better running the 14.7 psi boost than the
previous day with the 9 psi boost, which means I don't know how to properly
use all that ectra horsepower.  I DID use it to drive off the trackout at
Turn 4 on Saturday afternoon (Fourth off-track in five years and 31 DE's).






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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:04:32 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?

Call Porterfield directly --- they're in Costa Mesa Ca.

        Jim Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 8:48 AM
Subject: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?


> I purchased a brakeline kit and have an issue with it that needs to
> be resolved. Does anyone know how to contact Geoff Mohler? He seems
> to be out of the country for a month and I can't wait for this. I
> can't believe issues will be unaddressed for a month till his return.
> Does he have a #2 guy to take of things while he is out?
>
> As for the technical question.....is there another source for line
> fittings for these brake kits...I am thinking I am going to be on a
> waiting list for 3-4 weeks till I can get my fitting replaced. I need
> the fitting that gets C-clipped..there are 8 of them in the kit...1
> of mine was bad...the seal cone is not there...made incorrectly and
> will not fit or work. My car is dead till this fitting is replaced..
> any help would be greatly appreciated
>
> bobk.
> dead 93 R/T
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 17:15:17 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Track Overheating Update (continued)

I checked the oil level after my first ever overheating incident at
last weekend's track event (http://www.team3s.com/RR19.htm) and it was
normal.  Pressure was good, perhaps a little lower than normal at
idle.  I'm really puzzled... it was such an abrupt change in
temperature despite fairly consistent driving all day.

- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 05:46:09 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

 Consumer Reports keeps records like this.  I am no longer a member, so I
can't tell you their numbers.  You can find it at
 www.consumerreports.org

 You will have to sign-up to look it up though.

 Doug
92 Stealth RT TT



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:53:27 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?

I contacted them and it seems to be rolling but the answer I seem to
get is "talk to Geoff" well we all know where he is. I am sending
Emails to him now and hope he can get through the fornt desk. Things
are rolling....thanks for the help.

bobk.

- ---- Original Message ----
From: fastmax@cox.net
To: ek2mfg@foxinternet.com, Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:04:32 -0700

>Call Porterfield directly --- they're in Costa Mesa Ca.
>
>        Jim Berry
>======================================
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
>To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 8:48 AM
>Subject: Team3S: SpeedToys? How do I get ahold of them?
>
>
>> I purchased a brakeline kit and have an issue with it that needs to
>> be resolved. Does anyone know how to contact Geoff Mohler? He seems
>> to be out of the country for a month and I can't wait for this. I
>> can't believe issues will be unaddressed for a month till his
>return.
>> Does he have a #2 guy to take of things while he is out?
>>
>> As for the technical question.....is there another source for line
>> fittings for these brake kits...I am thinking I am going to be on a
>> waiting list for 3-4 weeks till I can get my fitting replaced. I
>need
>> the fitting that gets C-clipped..there are 8 of them in the kit...1
>> of mine was bad...the seal cone is not there...made incorrectly and
>> will not fit or work. My car is dead till this fitting is
>replaced..
>> any help would be greatly appreciated
>>
>> bobk.
>> dead 93 R/T
>>
>>
>>
>> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 17:36:15 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Intake Pressure Testing Question.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but air can enter the rocker
cover from the PCV hose connected to the intake hose (don't worry, it is
supposed to do this). Block this access if it bothers you. A Krank Vent one-
way valve installed in this hose can prevent air from flowing toward the
rocker cover.

Also, the PCV valve may leak air into the rocker cover when the manifold is
pressurized (no, it is not supposed to do this). A Krank Vent one-way valve in
the PCV valve hose is supposed to fix this problem.

Don't forget at least two intake valves are not closed at all times, so air
can get into at least two cylinders at any crank position and from there
around the rings. From what I understand, a large part of ring seal during
operation is from the pressure of combustion pressing the ring "from behind"
and away from the piston onto the cylinder wall.

To prevent any air from your pressure testing from entering the engine you
must seal the PCV hose access on the intake hose (disconnect hose from rear
rocker cover and plug or squeeze shut) and install a blocking plate either
between the plenum and manifold (a hassle) or between the throttle body and
plenum (less of a hassle).

Intake pressure tester:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-pressuretester.htm

PCV info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-krankvents.htm

Valve timing and more:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-timing.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 9:33 AM
Subject: Team3S: Intake Pressure Testing Question.

Sunday I checked for leaks and found a few and after fixing them noticed
I was getting a lot of pressure in the valve cover. The motor was cold
so would this be normal? The only thing I could think is my rings could
be bad? The motor was just rebuilt 800 mi ago.

Thanks for any help.

Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder BPU



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

It goes something like this:

$5-6k Buy base model in good shape.
$1k   Put really cool tires on it.
$1k   and new rims
$.6k  And some gauges on the pillar

<get spanked by RT/TT>

$40   put ad on Autotrader to sell the base model
<$6k> sell the base model
$18k  and by a 2nd gen RT/TT
$1k   Put really cool tires on it.
$1k   And rims

<get spanked by a highly modded RT/TT>

$.5k  A new BOV
$.4k  and downpipe
$.8k  and HKS exhaust
$.15k And FIPK
      And And And......

<now your car is REALLY HOT!!>

$5k   Buy a first gen base model as a daily
driver.....

Glenn
'93 VR-4 - Stock
Got Spanked by a modded 2nd gen on Sat (Thanks Roger!)

- --- Shaun Cameron <stealth@blizzarddesign.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
<cut>
>   In any case, I was wondering if anyone could post
> up their maintenance
> cost logs and any other noteworthy expense logs that
> they have.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:00:56 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

Or try this formula...

7k by R/T NA
1k wheels and tires
...see 99 drive by
4k conversion to 99 front end
.7k battle wing spoiler...gotta be legit.
..cam gear...springs..SAFC...360's...AL Flywheel...stut bars ...sway
bars....brakes...rotors...intake...exhaust...filter...wires....endless
time and effort.


get asked by every club member why you didn't get a
VR4........priceless

you do what you will to any base model....for everyone else...there's
VR4

- ---- Original Message ----
From: vr4glenn@yahoo.com
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:52:33 -0700 (PDT)

>It goes something like this:
>
>$5-6k Buy base model in good shape.
>$1k   Put really cool tires on it.
>$1k   and new rims
>$.6k  And some gauges on the pillar
>
><get spanked by RT/TT>
>
>$40   put ad on Autotrader to sell the base model
><$6k> sell the base model
>$18k  and by a 2nd gen RT/TT
>$1k   Put really cool tires on it.
>$1k   And rims
>
><get spanked by a highly modded RT/TT>
>
>$.5k  A new BOV
>$.4k  and downpipe
>$.8k  and HKS exhaust
>$.15k And FIPK
>      And And And......
>
><now your car is REALLY HOT!!>
>
>$5k   Buy a first gen base model as a daily
>driver.....
>
>Glenn
>'93 VR-4 - Stock
>Got Spanked by a modded 2nd gen on Sat (Thanks Roger!)
>
>--- Shaun Cameron <stealth@blizzarddesign.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
><cut>
>>   In any case, I was wondering if anyone could post
>> up their maintenance
>> cost logs and any other noteworthy expense logs that
>> they have.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com
>
>***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:14:23 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

Actually more so goes like this:

Buy a 1G VR-4  $6-10k
FIPK $150
AVC-R $400
ATR D/P $325

blow engine up b/c you beat the stock engine mounts to death drag racing all
summer long $4K and running :/

Do you all see a trend here?

While we are on the topic of cost I keep seeing posts at another forum
online (not touching the mess from over the weekend) referencing the Kormex
LSD available for the TT any one have a line on cost and difficulty of the
install?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: glenn vrfour [SMTP:vr4glenn@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:53 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question
>
> It goes something like this:
>
> $5-6k Buy base model in good shape.
> $1k   Put really cool tires on it.
> $1k   and new rims
> $.6k  And some gauges on the pillar
>
> <get spanked by RT/TT>
>
> $40   put ad on Autotrader to sell the base model
> <$6k> sell the base model
> $18k  and by a 2nd gen RT/TT
> $1k   Put really cool tires on it.
> $1k   And rims
>
> <get spanked by a highly modded RT/TT>
>
> $.5k  A new BOV
> $.4k  and downpipe
> $.8k  and HKS exhaust
> $.15k And FIPK
>       And And And......
>
> <now your car is REALLY HOT!!>
>
> $5k   Buy a first gen base model as a daily
> driver.....
>
> Glenn
> '93 VR-4 - Stock
> Got Spanked by a modded 2nd gen on Sat (Thanks Roger!)
>
> --- Shaun Cameron <stealth@blizzarddesign.com> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> <cut>
> >   In any case, I was wondering if anyone could post
> > up their maintenance
> > cost logs and any other noteworthy expense logs that
> > they have.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 20:22:53 +0000
From: "Hans Hortin" <hortin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Katlysator

Hello

I have a 1991 Stealth ES.
According to CARFAX the exaust is ok.
Whats the HC, CO2 and so on in USA. Miami.

Sweden:
30 at 800 rpm.
100 at 2500 rpm.


Hans


_________________________________________________________________
Med MSN Foto kan du enkelt dela med dig av dina fotografier och beställa
kopior: http://photos.msn.se


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: First Post

Hello all, Glad to have joined your team.
My name is Roger Ludwig Jr. I am a family practice doc
in Silverdale Washington and part time Flight Surgeon
with an F15 Squadron in Portland Oregon (Oregon Air
National Guard).
I own a 1995 VR4 (Sorrento Pearl) with the following
mods that I have done since I bought the car bone
stock last year:
1) K & N FIPK
2) HKS Exhaust (thanx Erik)
3) Cusco Rear Strut Bar
4) Ground Control Coilover Suspension Kit
5) Polished intercooler piping
6) 3SX Spark Plug Cover Plate and dress up kit
7) Slotted Crossdrilled Rotors - removing soon!!
8) New fuel rail rear line mod from Bob K.
9)HKS EVC IV

My need, I am preparing to install the EVC IV and have
found several websites that offer mediocre information
on the install of this thing.
Does anyone have a link to a helpful spot for this
install. Erik sent me Stealth 316's which is OK but
basically just has the printed instructions.

See ya
Roger


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:40:47 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Katlysator

Hans

The following information is from California which normally has the
most strict smog tests in the US. They also check Nox but for some
reason I didn't include it in the following email.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark FWIW ---- I dug up my old smog test from 12/27/00.
Precats and cat in place.


idle -------------  HC(ppm) ---- max allowed 100, measured 5
2500 rpm -----   HC(ppm) ---- max allowed 130, measured 6

idle ------------     CO(%) ------- max allowed 1.00, measured 0.00
2500 rpm ----      CO(%) -------- max sllowed 1.00, measured 0.00

       
        Jim Berry
========================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Hortin" <hortin@hotmail.com>
To: <team3s@team3s.com>


>
> Hello
>
> I have a 1991 Stealth ES.
> According to CARFAX the exaust is ok.
> Whats the HC, CO2 and so on in USA. Miami.
>
> Sweden:
> 30 at 800 rpm.
> 100 at 2500 rpm.
>
>
> Hans




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:46:32 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo vs efficiency (crusing)

Hello all -

I love the thought that goes into topics we toss around here.  I read about
things that don't necessarily pertain to me, yet learn so much.  thanks all.

I have been pondering for some time now, how does turbo affect fuel
efficiency when crusing?  My thoughts are that the extra air supplied during
even small fluctuations of the throttle results in very poor gas mileage.
What if the turbos were turned off?  Then the throttle would have to be
tilted open more to get the needed air, thereby decreasing the vacuum drag
of the engine, which should equal higher efficiency.  On the other hand,
isn't turbo a very efficient way to supply air?  In other words, isn't the
'forced' air greatly reducing the vacuum drag naturally?

Ken Stanton

- ---Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White Stealth RT/TT
3Si Rochester (NY)
FIPK, HKS Dual Exhaust
AVC-R (1.2bar), Triad Alky Injection
Improved Precats
HKS SSBOV
Cusco Rear Strut Bar, Konig Flight 17"
6 speed conversion, RPS Stage II
Aiwa MP3 Stereo
007KEN spark plug plate, license plates
ASC sunroof, white Ram emblem
98/99 COOLANT TANK (6/26/02)
Best (pathetic) time:
13.5 @ 104mph (1.2 bar w/ poorly tuned alky)



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:19:32 EDT
From: Merlin916@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo vs efficiency (crusing)

If you look at your boost gauge (preferrably the one on the AVCR - as its
more accurate), you will notice that any time you are at a mid-throttle
cruise, your engine manifold is under vacuume.  You do not get positive
pressure until you begin to accelerate, that is to say that the effect of the
turbo holding back the engine (really "turbo-lag") does not actually occur
until you are attemting acceleration (youll notice that you dont hear the
clicking from the AVC-R solenoid until you start to get on the throttle). 
Therefore, since you want the turbo to kick in on acceleration, there is
really no need to "turn off" the turbocharger.  The only time that the turbo
could possibly hinder the type of performance you want is under engine
breaking, which is why the adjustable blow-off valve (or air bypass valve as
its sometimes called) is used.  Its sort of like a variable vacuum leak.

Joe
93 RT/TT
'02 WRX

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:27:26 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo vs efficiency (crusing)

There are two main differences between a typical turbo engine and a NA
engine that affect fuel efficiency, one good, one bad.  First the bad, low
compression ratio makes for a less efficient engine and results in worse
economy.  On the other hand, the turbo does aid in air supply and thus
reduces the pumping losses (even though it adds some restriction to the
exhaust, but negligible at cruising speeds).  Overall, economy from a turbo
engine is usually superior to an NA engine that is capable of similar
performance.

If ultimate fuel economy was the goal, we'd Ideally want a small
displacement, variable compression ratio, turbo engine running on a CVT.
The CVT would keep the engine at its most efficient engine speed regardless
of vehicle speed and the compression ratio would be set as high as the
gasoline would allow without knocking and change as cruising loads changed.
Spark and fuel would also be optimized during these operating points to
obtain max brake specific fuel consumption (bsfc).

Joe G.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Stanton" <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:46 PM
Subject: Team3S: Turbo vs efficiency (crusing)


> Hello all -
>
> I love the thought that goes into topics we toss around here.  I read
about
> things that don't necessarily pertain to me, yet learn so much.  thanks
all.
>
> I have been pondering for some time now, how does turbo affect fuel
> efficiency when crusing?  My thoughts are that the extra air supplied
during
> even small fluctuations of the throttle results in very poor gas mileage.
> What if the turbos were turned off?  Then the throttle would have to be
> tilted open more to get the needed air, thereby decreasing the vacuum drag
> of the engine, which should equal higher efficiency.  On the other hand,
> isn't turbo a very efficient way to supply air?  In other words, isn't the
> 'forced' air greatly reducing the vacuum drag naturally?
>
> Ken Stanton
>
> ---Ken Stanton
> '91 Pearl White Stealth RT/TT
> 3Si Rochester (NY)
> FIPK, HKS Dual Exhaust
> AVC-R (1.2bar), Triad Alky Injection
> Improved Precats
> HKS SSBOV
> Cusco Rear Strut Bar, Konig Flight 17"
> 6 speed conversion, RPS Stage II
> Aiwa MP3 Stereo
> 007KEN spark plug plate, license plates
> ASC sunroof, white Ram emblem
> 98/99 COOLANT TANK (6/26/02)
> Best (pathetic) time:
> 13.5 @ 104mph (1.2 bar w/ poorly tuned alky)
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:44:28 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Tapping Manifold for EGT Probe w/o Removing Manifold

For those who've suggested/contemplated tapping their exhaust manifolds
without removing the turbo or manifold, look here.

http://pjs.iwarp.com/mr2modproject/mod/4EGTMod/4egtmod.htm

He drilled 4 holes really close to the block, so I'm wondering if that's how
the shavings got in the head...  Does air get sucked INTO the engine through
the exhaust valves on the first couple strokes since there's no combustion?
IIRC, there is some intake/exhaust valve overlap, but is it possible to suck
stuff from the exhaust manifold into the engine? 

I assume this wouldn't really be an issue if the engine were idling, but
there'd still be the dangers of having metal shavings hitting the turbine
blades.

Comments about this guy's experience?

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:34:03 +0000
From: "Hans Hortin" <hortin@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]

Hello

I just read this on  www.dodge.com  homepage.

""Where To Get Parts For Your Dodge Stealth

Parts for your Dodge Stealth may still be available through your local Dodge
dealer. As DaimlerChrysler not longer manufacturers the Dodge Stealth, parts
are maintained based on demand.

If the part is not available through your local Dodge dealer, your might try
searching the internet to locate a Dodge Stealth car club. Often these clubs
will have parts available. You also might check salvage yards that are in
your area, to see if they may have the vehicle/part that you are looking
for.

Locating parts can be a tedious and drawn-out process. Best of luck in
trying to obtain the part(s) you are looking for.

Document ID: SSIDB131426""

Can anyone help me to find a center cap (?) to my Stealth.
Who sell my type wheel? 16". Tires 225-65.

My homepage have pictures.
http://www.geocities.com/hortin2001/Erik.html

(I have worked whit this site for 5 houers.)
I like my OPEL OMEGA 2,5 V6 125 kW Chips very much.
A family car.

Hans











_________________________________________________________________
Med MSN Foto kan du enkelt dela med dig av dina fotografier och beställa
kopior: http://photos.msn.se


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:34:03 +0000
From: "Hans Hortin" <hortin@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]

Hello

I just read this on  www.dodge.com  homepage.

""Where To Get Parts For Your Dodge Stealth

Parts for your Dodge Stealth may still be available through your local Dodge
dealer. As DaimlerChrysler not longer manufacturers the Dodge Stealth, parts
are maintained based on demand.

If the part is not available through your local Dodge dealer, your might try
searching the internet to locate a Dodge Stealth car club. Often these clubs
will have parts available. You also might check salvage yards that are in
your area, to see if they may have the vehicle/part that you are looking
for.

Locating parts can be a tedious and drawn-out process. Best of luck in
trying to obtain the part(s) you are looking for.

Document ID: SSIDB131426""

Can anyone help me to find a center cap (?) to my Stealth.
Who sell my type wheel? 16". Tires 225-65.

My homepage have pictures.
http://www.geocities.com/hortin2001/Erik.html

(I have worked whit this site for 5 houers.)
I like my OPEL OMEGA 2,5 V6 125 kW Chips very much.
A family car.

Hans











_________________________________________________________________
Med MSN Foto kan du enkelt dela med dig av dina fotografier och beställa
kopior: http://photos.msn.se


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:01:34 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo vs efficiency (crusing)

Ken - I tested this in real-world trips to two "local" tracks.

Driving in 5th and 6th gears on the Interstates consisting of many long
(1 mile or longer) hills the turbos were engaged (AutoMeter gauge)
anywhere from 0 psi - 7 psi (or max in 6th gear on steep hills but here
I would shift to 5th).

Driving in 6th gear until a gentle grade of 5-10 degrees when I would
shift to 5th until a grade of 10+ degrees when I would shift to 4th all
the way through West Virginia (where hills were much steeper and longer
than those in the previous lesson through PA) generated almost no boost
or at most 1-3 psi.

Fuel economy on the hilly trip through WV was a staggering 450 miles per
tank.  The similar trip through PA was about 380 miles before the Mrs.
nudged me to get gas which I did at the 400-mile mark.  I kept the two
fuel receipts where I put in 20.110 gallons and 20.200 gallons since I
didn't think that was possible on stock tanks.  My goal is to get 500
miles but I'll need to hit somewhere flat in 6th gear and I don't feel
like driving through Ohio for 300 miles then turning around.  Both runs
above were made using the A/C by the way.  I don't feel that has much
bearing at all on total miles.  Nor does opening the windows or sunroof.

- --Flash!
Gone are the days of 36+ mpg in the VTEC Accord on a 14 gallon tank

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Stanton
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 18:47

I have been pondering for some time now, how does turbo affect fuel
efficiency when crusing?  My thoughts are that the extra air supplied
during even small fluctuations of the throttle results in very poor gas
mileage. What if the turbos were turned off?  Then the throttle would
have to be tilted open more to get the needed air, thereby decreasing
the vacuum drag of the engine, which should equal higher efficiency.  On
the other hand, isn't turbo a very efficient way to supply air?  In
other words, isn't the 'forced' air greatly reducing the vacuum drag
naturally?


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:47:32 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

Guys with VR-4-

yes they are fast and amazing-how the 3/S was meant to be

But Shaun said he wants it affordable. .

And at $15,000 and up for a decent used one. . . twin turbo AWD AWS with a
troublesome six speed and only decent gas milage on premium only may not be
the car for everyone-major funds are needed to keep it goin-and of course you
GOTTA make it faster. . .whats the point then?

So do remember that the DOHC N/A has its own merrits- id rather be drivin in
that then uhhh. . a crustang or somthin

- -mike
97 SL


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 23:38:07 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average Monthly Cost Question

>So do remember that the DOHC N/A has its own merrits-

I beg your pardon. This Merritt does not have a DOHC N/A.
I do admit, however, that the car has its merits.

Rich/slow old poop
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:51:12 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Katlysator

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
> Hans
> The following information is from California which normally has the most
strict smog tests in the US. They also check Nox but for some reason I didn't
include it in the following email.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mark FWIW ---- I dug up my old smog test from 12/27/00.
> Precats and cat in place.
> idle -------------  HC(ppm) ---- max allowed 100, measured 5
> 2500 rpm -----   HC(ppm) ---- max allowed 130, measured 6
> idle ------------     CO(%) ------- max allowed 1.00, measured 0.00
> 2500 rpm ----      CO(%) -------- max sllowed 1.00, measured 0.00
>         Jim Berry
- ------------------------------------------------->

Hans,

I couldn't find any figures for Florida, as you asked, but I can share my
latest numbers.  I took a chance with my recent emissions test, and brought
the car in COLD, without giving it time to warm up the cats (Katlysators).
You *should* run the car on the highway at over 100kph (60mph) for 15 minutes
before emissions testing (for better results)...

Based on Jim Berry's numbers above, it apears that the geniuses in Washington
(or Sacramento) have substantially relaxed the (2500 rpm) emissions standards
on hydrocarbons & Carbon Monoxide since December, 2000!?!  My numbers from
late July, '02, (including Oxygen) for a stock exhaust, '94 Stealth NT are:
Idle    RPM -----   HC(ppm) --- max allowed 100, measured 1
2500 RPM -----   HC(ppm) --- max allowed 220, measured 3
Idle    RPM -----  CO( % ) ----- max allowed 1.00, measured 0
2500 RPM -----  CO( % ) ----- max allowed 1.20, measured 0
Idle    RPM -----  O²( % ) ----- **Out of Calibration**, measured 1.1
2500 RPM -----  O²( % ) ----- **Out of Calibration**, measured 0.9

Best,
Forrest



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #917
***************************************