Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, July 27
2002 Volume 01 : Number
909
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:21:38 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Wide-Band O2 DIY
The O2 sensors used in our cars, most cars for that
matter have what is
almost a step function when it goes from lean to rich.
People still insist on
trying to tune using the output of the sensor ---
you'll see lots of posts
saying that .92 volts is good but .94 volts is too
rich, I made up the numbers
but they're close. It's almost impossible to
accurately use this type of sensor
to accurately tune an engine.
In a
wide band sensor the voltage is 1.4V for an air fuel ratio of about 10:1 to
2.75V for 18:1 --- at those levels it's much easier to determine the actual
AF
ratio. I've seen wide band setups sold for $1000 for the sensors and
readout.
See this page to see the voltage vs. A/F ratio for the sensor used
in the kit.
http://www.diy-wb.com/v_out.htm
Jim Berry
===================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
To:
<
team3S@team3s.com>
Sent:
Friday, July 26, 2002 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wide-Band O2
DIY
> This may be a dumb question.
>
> What are the
advantages to having a wide band O2 sensor setup?
>
> Doug
>
92 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:31:10
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: AWD Dyno in NorCal
http://63.72.125.112/services/***
Got
Brakes? Need better brakes?
Send Email to:
orders@speedtoys.com with any inquiries.
(only this addr)
Reseller oppourtunities available.
***
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:42:36
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX Performance motor mounts
A non-technical follow-up to my
report on the 3SX motor mounts. It took
my wife about 12.3 seconds to
ask, "Why does your car feel so rough
now?" That pretty much shows that
a non-driver and non-wrench-turning
person can even tell the difference
nearly instantly.
I notice that when I turn the car off I used to feel
the motor rock side
to side as it stopped. Now there is not
rocking. You turn the key off
and the engine stops and doesn't move
very much.
I wish there were a test like filling a glass of water to the
rim and
placing it on the roof before (not spilling) and now (spilling a
few
drops out the sides as it shakes). Hard to give technical feedback
on
stuff like that.
- --Flash!
www.team3s.com/~dschilberg/cars/engine/MotorMount/-
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
[mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:49 AM
I
just got my baby back after a week of patient waiting. And even
though
I have been driving a 1994 Eclipse base model doesn't mean my
inputs are all
out of whack. I got in my car and started it up and
immediately could
tell the difference the 3SX Motor Mounts made. I
could feel the car
idle. Almost as if you are leaning against the hood
or front fender
(quarter panel area) except I was in the stock driver's
seat. Rev it up
a little and I could feel it through my back. What a
wonderful
feeling.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:01:33
-0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Timing Belt Adjuster
After a couple of nights of tedious labor
(it's a good thing I enjoy it), my
timing belt is installed.
Unfortunately, after torqueing the tensioner
pulley to 7ft.-lbs. the
automatic tensioner pin is only extended .12in. as
opposed to the recommended
min. extention of .15in. Anyone who is familiar
with this procedure
have any recommendations?
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:39:45
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wide-Band O2 DIY
The output if a wide-band sensor is almost
linear. The bottom line, the
accuracy is much higher. On the stock O2 0.90V
is too lean and 0.96 is too
rich. And these numbers vary car-to-car and even
sensor-to-sensor on the
same car.
Also, the wide-band sensors are
more temperature stable. Your O2 readings
won't depend on your EGT readings.
You would be able to compare your O2
readings recorded on the road in winter
to readings recorded on a dyno in
the summer on someone else's car (for
example the Jack T's car ;-)
Philip
At 20:21 7/26/2002, fastmax
wrote:
>The O2 sensors used in our cars, most cars for that matter have
what is
>almost a step function when it goes from lean to rich. People
still insist on
>trying to tune using the output of the sensor --- you'll
see lots of posts
>saying that .92 volts is good but .94 volts is too
rich, I made up the numbers
>but they're close. It's almost impossible to
accurately use this type of
>sensor
>to accurately tune an
engine.
>
>In a wide band sensor the voltage is 1.4V for an air fuel
ratio of about
>10:1 to
>2.75V for 18:1 --- at those levels it's
much easier to determine the actual AF
>ratio. I've seen wide band setups
sold for $1000 for the sensors and readout.
>See this page to see the
voltage vs. A/F ratio for the sensor used in the kit.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:10:13
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
pedenkoa@msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Timing Belt Adjuster
I don't know how safe it would be to just leave it
be, but if you decide
not to, you may not have to un-install and re-install.
You could try
loosening the center bolt on the tensioner pulley and
re-torqueing it.
Just be careful to not let the pulley snap back, as then you
won't be
able to set it right, and you will have to uninstall and re-compress
the
tensioner.
Alex.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Dave and Becky Trent
Sent:
Friday, July 26, 2002 9:02 PM
To: Team3s
Subject: Team3S: Timing Belt
Adjuster
After a couple of nights of tedious labor (it's a good thing I
enjoy
it), my
timing belt is installed. Unfortunately, after
torqueing the tensioner
pulley to 7ft.-lbs. the automatic tensioner pin is
only extended .12in.
as
opposed to the recommended min. extention of
.15in. Anyone who is
familiar
with this procedure have any
recommendations?
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:53:33
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wide-Band O2 DIY
Some very good points. I'm sold on
getting a wide band O2 setup.
Now for a few questions:
Would doing
this mess up the ECU that is expecting the old signal? Is there
a way
to fool the ECU or will it just accept the signal as is? Would you
just
replace one sensor and split the signal from the other sensor for
the
ECU?
I noticed that the web site linked to suggests using the
honda sensor. Does
anyone know if this is a bolt-on fit or will there
have to be a new hole
drilled and tapped?
Doug
92 Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:09:02
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Wide-Band O2 DIY
This doesn't replace the old O2 sensor, it's used only
as a tuning aid.
It would require the addition of a O2 sensor bung being
welded into
the downpipe[s].
You could possibly use one of the
existing O2 mounts but the ECU
does control each bank seperately so I'm not
sure of the affect of
tying the two inputs together. In my case I'll build
two kits and monitor
both banks ---- total cost for two kits with display and
welding the bungs
shouldn't exceed
$400
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:22:43
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wide-Band O2 DIY
> You could possibly use one of the existing
O2 mounts but the ECU
> does control each bank seperately so I'm not sure
of the affect of
> tying the two inputs together. In my case I'll build
two kits and monitor
> both banks ---- total cost for two kits with
display and welding the bungs
> shouldn't exceed $400
Are you able
to tune each bank separately? If not, I'm not sure I see the
reason for
having two of them. I'd probably experiment with the wideband in
the
front bank, then move it to the back bank (I've got a '95, so I already
have
"extra" O2 bungs in both locations) and leave it in whichever seems to
run a
bit leaner (if either side actually does run different).
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:23:53
-0400
From: Danno <
palermod@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Quickie Oil Change
Folks,
Any wisdom regarding the use of
the quickie oil change joints out there
as to quality of oil and especially
their filters?? For $20 it's just
not worth my time, the mess and the
fact that I can't get under our very
low slung cars to begin with!
- -
Dan
'95 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:05:17
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
pedenkoa@msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Quickie Oil Change
I couldn't tell ya anything positive - I've heard
nothing but horror
stories, like jiffy lube putting on an SAE oil cap on
my
brother-in-law's metric camry.
Just my 2 cents
worth...
Alex.
'95 VR4
www.kolosy.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Cheap filters don't keep dirt
out of your engine. Cheap oil doesn't protect
your engine
adequately. It won't be a precision engine for long if you don't
take
care of it! Any questions?
If you want to do right by your car (but
you don't want to change oil/filter
yourself), buy a few filters (on-line)
from one of our "Good Guys" dealers who
give Team3S discounts, then buy
Mobil-1 10W30 at Walmart (or Costco or Price
Club) - it's 6 QTS for
$20. (For $60 you get 18 QTS, which is 4 oil changes -
or $15/per
change for GOOD oil...). Bring them to a cheap oil change place,
who
will charge you $10-$15 to change it using *your* oil/filter. You
only
need a filter every *other* oil change, BTW...
www.Team3S.com/FAQgoodguys.htmBest,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:10:30
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Wide-Band O2 DIY
You're not able to tune separately but for the cost of
the unit I like the
extra protection afforded by the dual system --- The ECU
controls them
separately so I suppose it could screw them up separately. I
also have
two EGT gauges and right now 3 boost gauges. Hell a few more
readouts
shouldn't confuse me any
more.
Jim
Berry
================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
> >
You could possibly use one of the existing O2 mounts but the ECU
> >
does control each bank seperately so I'm not sure of the affect of
> >
tying the two inputs together. In my case I'll build two kits and
monitor
> > both banks ---- total cost for two kits with display and
welding the bungs
> > shouldn't exceed $400
>
> Are you
able to tune each bank separately? If not, I'm not sure I see the
>
reason for having two of them. I'd probably experiment with the wideband
in
> the front bank, then move it to the back bank (I've got a '95, so I
already
> have "extra" O2 bungs in both locations) and leave it in
whichever seems to
> run a bit leaner (if either side actually does run
different).
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:24:23
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Quickie Oil Change
I was going to mention the same idea.
The Pennzoil place near me
doesn't mind if you stand in front of their window
and watch. On
occasion I take my oil to them as well as the
filter. It is no more
than $15-$20 though and they take the old oil for
me and any oil I have
been storing during home changes.
I've only had
one cross-threaded or stripped oil drain plug but it was
not on this
car. I have opted to install the Fram SureDrain plug,
http://www.autobarn.net/frasdseries.html
for about $15, and have only
changed the oil once since then but it did make
it easy. Some people
thing that not removing the plug means that some
metal particles in the
oil pan will not get flushed out. The Fram plug
is also not magnetic
but I feel the stock plug is so weak of a magnet and is
so small in area
that it can't do a very good job anyway. 4 quarts of
oil flowing past
it quickly mean it will probably move any metal bit attached
to the
drain plug back into the oil stream - and since you should change
your
oil when it is warm so it flows a little easier I don't think there
are
many times when the metal parts are settling onto the drain plug for
a
day before you drain. But I digress.
I am hoping that the next
oil change I can do in under 10 minutes with
the Fram setup (oil only - no
filter change) and then I will be pleased
at the drain plug mod.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob
Forrest
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 14:12
If you want to do right by
your car (but you don't want to change
oil/filter yourself), buy a few
filters (on-line) from one of our "Good
Guys" dealers who give Team3S
discounts, then buy Mobil-1 10W30 at
Walmart (or Costco or Price
Club) -
it's 6 QTS for $20. (For $60 you get 18 QTS, which is 4 oil
changes -
or $15/per change for GOOD oil...). Bring them to a cheap oil
change
place, who will charge you $10-$15 to change it using
*your*
oil/filter. You only need a filter every *other* oil change,
BTW...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:35:32
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Oil Change Magnetic Plug
Some people
> thing that not
removing the plug means that some metal particles in the
> oil pan will
not get flushed out. The Fram plug is also not magnetic
> but I feel
the stock plug is so weak of a magnet and is so small in area
> that it
can't do a very good job anyway. 4 quarts of oil flowing past
> it
quickly mean it will probably move any metal bit attached to the
> drain
plug back into the oil stream - and since you should change your
> oil
when it is warm so it flows a little easier I don't think there are
> many
times when the metal parts are settling onto the drain plug for a
> day
before you drain. But I digress.
I have heard of placing a strong
magnet (like an old speaker magnet) on the
oil filter to catch metal
bits. Then when you change the filter, the metal
bits are supposed to
go with it. The only thing that seems weird is: isn't
the oil filter
supposed to catch all those metal bits without the aid of a
magnet?
I
did see a significant amount of metal on my transmission drain plug when
I
changed my transmission oil. I have never seen any on an oil drain
plug.
I have bought the Fram plug, also and I like it. I was
concerned about the
valve inadvertantly opening during driving, but with the
cap and second
rubber seal on it I feel confident that even if that happens
no oil will
leak out.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:01:31
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wide-Band O2 DIY
but the ECU
> does control each bank
seperately
I've seen this stated before and I don't believe it's true.
It's more likely
that the ECU looks at both sensors and adjusts the mixture
to all injectors
using the "Worst" input.
The reason being that the
JDM cars only use a single sensor.
Steve
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:58:06
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Wide-Band O2 DIY
Book sez otherwise --- believe it or don't.
http://www.stealth316.com/images/stim/tim_14-10.gif
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:31:10
-0600
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Change Magnetic Plug
I too had heard of using magnets on the
filter but when the jury came in,
they said waste of time.
I'm running
the SureDrain Fram plug too. So far, it has saved lots of time
and many hand
washes. The way it is setup, more pressure should close the
valve even
tighter so leaking out of the valve wasn't a concern of mine. The
secondary
screw cap with O-ring is nice in spite of my confidence. I also
put one on my
wife's 98 Accord and had a little leaking until I got it
torqued just
right.
The original oil plug on both this car any my VR-4 show evidence
of the
"Quick Lube syndrome" where undereducated, underpaid, less than
genius
"technicians" who wouldn't know a torque wrench if it bit them in the
arse
obviously took less than stellar care to remove and install the drain
plug.
As a side note as to what can really go wrong, my dad has a
mini-van that
had to have the oil pan replaced after the oil change shop
stripped out the
drain hole threads.... Yet another good reason for the
SureDrain. If you are
forced to go to the Quick Lube, do so with your
SureDrain drain tube in
hand. That way, the genius who gets to do the change
doesn't even get to put
a wrench on it.
I'm personally boycotting all
Fram oil filters though as I had a nasty
experience with one on the Accord
where the filter was leaking and it
crushed when I tried to tighten it. I am
using either K&N, Mistu or Amsoil
oil filters on the VR-4.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
on 7/27/02 5:35 PM, dakken at
dougusmagnus@attbi.com
scribbled:
> I have bought the Fram plug, also and I like it. I
was concerned about the
> valve inadvertantly opening during driving, but
with the cap and second
> rubber seal on it I feel confident that even if
that happens no oil will
> leak out.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#909
***************************************
