Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, July 8
2002 Volume 01 : Number
892
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:49:12 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
Is there a chart somewhere that says what
viscosity is appropriate for
what conditions?
I bought 5w30 mobil1
(they didn't have anything else at the time) but
never put it in - I don't
want to put in the wrong viscosity.
Alex.
'95 VR4
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Philip V. Glazatov
Sent:
Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:02 PM
To: Michael Neill;
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
At 11:29 7/7/2002, Michael Neill wrote:
>Just
purchased a 1997 VR-4 and while driving it home noticed
that
around
>2,000 RPM Oil pressure gauge drops down below the normal
mark. When you
>accelerate, the needle rises once again. Oil level is
normal, could
this be
>a faulty oil pressure sensor, or something more
serious?
That sounds normal. I try to keep my car above 2000 rpm if I am
under
any
load. Also, the car does not drive well below 2000
rpm.
I use Mobil1 15W-50 in the summer. It bumps my pressure up by one
notch
over regular 5W-30. The engine sounds and feels better with it
too.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 12:14:35
-0600
From: "Zach Sauerman" <
axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Vacuum limit
Good afternoon everyone.
I have an Autometer
vacuum/boost gauge. Recently I noticed that at operating
temperature, the
vacuum is reading below 18psi, which is what the service
manual states is
the limit. I installed the gauge at an altitude of 3500MSL,
it read fine
there and in Colorado between 6000 and 10,000MSL. Now I am in
Texas at about
400MSL, and the gauge is reading more vacuum. I have also
noticed that when
the car is off, the needle returns below the center of the
zero-mark. Can
anybody come up with an explanation? Am I really looking at a
problem here?
I would figure that the needle would read below the zero-mark
when I was at
altitude, and would read past zero down here.
Just trying to stay ahead of
the car..
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT
Laughlin
03-12
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:27:55
-0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
It's in the owners manual.
5W-30 from -22F to
61F
10W-30 from -9F to 122F
20W-40 from 32F to 122F
Since I moved
to AZ I switched from Mobil 1 10W-30 to 15W-50. Once the end
of October
rolls around and highs drop below 80F I'll switch back to
10W-30.
Trevor
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex
Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
To:
"'Philip V. Glazatov'" <
gphilip@umich.edu>; "'Michael
Neill'"
<
dblxx@bellsouth.net>;
<
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent:
Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil
Pressure
> Is there a chart somewhere that says what viscosity is
appropriate for
> what conditions?
>
> I bought 5w30 mobil1
(they didn't have anything else at the time) but
> never put it in - I
don't want to put in the wrong viscosity.
>
> Alex.
> '95
VR4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Philip V. Glazatov
>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:02 PM
> To: Michael Neill;
Team3S@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
>
> At 11:29 7/7/2002, Michael Neill
wrote:
> >Just purchased a 1997 VR-4 and while driving it home noticed
that
> around
> >2,000 RPM Oil pressure gauge drops down below
the normal mark. When you
> >accelerate, the needle rises once again.
Oil level is normal, could
> this be
> >a faulty oil pressure
sensor, or something more serious?
>
> That sounds normal. I try to
keep my car above 2000 rpm if I am under
> any
> load. Also, the car
does not drive well below 2000 rpm.
>
> I use Mobil1 15W-50 in the
summer. It bumps my pressure up by one notch
> over regular 5W-30. The
engine sounds and feels better with it too.
>
> Philip
> '95
R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:29:47
-0400
From: "Rodriguez, Elpidio x35617d1" <
x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Hans?
Has anybody seen or heard from Hans at Ground Zero
Performace? I've been
trying to get a hold of him all week long but he
doesn't answer his phone at
the shop. If anybody knows where he's at or when
he'll be back, give me a
holler. Thanks.
- -ROD
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:25:20
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fast and Furious in real life
>Trevor
>That setup
got me my first 12.X...a
12.86@107.2 w/1.905
60'. Oct 30th, 1999.
>Ahhh the memories!
Nostalgia just isn't what
it used to be, right James?
Oh yeah. I have a Blitz BOV, too. It goes
"whooosh" very loudly.
Guess that makes me a ricer.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:53:25
-0600
From: "Gabe Simoes" <
stealthdevil@netzero.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
What happens if your oil pressure light does
comes on? The light would
flash on and off after coming to a
stop. The car is now inactive and makes
a horrible knocking noise and
rev's slower than normal. I suspect an oil
pump failure along with some
broken internal parts. Is this an accurate
assumption?
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Trevor James
Sent: Sunday,
July 07, 2002 10:42 AM
To: Michael Neill;
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
As long as your low oil pressure light isn't illuminating
you're fine. If
you want to go a little further normal idle for a TT is
around the 2nd or
3rd small hash mark up from the bottom of the oil pressure
gauge.
Trevor
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:52:15
-0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
Low oil pressure light means you're in trouble...after all
it doesn't
swictch on until <11psi. Your engine is probably
damaged.
Trevor
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe
Simoes" <
stealthdevil@netzero.net>
To:
<
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent:
Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
>
What happens if your oil pressure light does comes on? The light
would
> flash on and off after coming to a stop. The car is now
inactive and
makes
> a horrible knocking noise and rev's slower than
normal. I suspect an oil
> pump failure along with some broken
internal parts. Is this an accurate
> assumption?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:01:39
-0500
From: "Dan Hyde" <
danielhyde@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
Hmmm...
I too have a 1997 VR4, ~ 80K, and have
been a bit concerned myself with the
low oil pressure reading. Mine gradually
drops off at idle (only after it's
warm) but climbs back to normal when
driving. Seems like a slow responding
gage overall and I've always
presumed it's in the same class as the stock
turbo gage. I'm running
Redline 10W/30.
Dan Hyde
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Michael Neill" <
dblxx@bellsouth.net>
To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Sunday, July
07, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: Team3S: Oil Pressure
Just purchased a 1997
VR-4 and while driving it home noticed that around
2,000 RPM Oil pressure
gauge drops down below the normal mark.<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:22:05
-0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
If it's idling around the 2nd or 3rd small dash up during
hot weather then
your car is perfectly normal. I know it looks low but all
three of the TT's
I've owned were like that...even my current stealth when it
was stock with
15k on it. If you don't like it and your local ambient
temperatures don't
drop below freezing than you can switch to 15W-50. After
seeing quite a few
spun bearings on the boards and our less than amazing
bearing surface area
I'm all for 15W-50 in hot
climates.
Trevor
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:58:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
IMHO, an radiator upgrade is as important
as good brakes.
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> >Im sorry if im stating the obvious guys-but to Rich and a
couple of the other
> >guys-sometimes the answer is so simple
but we rip our brains apart lookin
> >for the it anyway. . .especially
on these cars.
> >
> Mike's right. Sometimes the answer is
simple. That's why I don't want to buy a $780 radiator if a $12 radiator cap
solves the problem.
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 15:20:22
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Is this a scam?
Whaddaya think about this? A scam?
I don't
have my car listed in a "car dealing magazine" or anywhere
else.
>Hello, I am willing to make this offer on behalf of my client.
i got your contact from the car dealing magazine and i intend to contact you my
intrest about purchasing your car. i am sure that my client will love it.
because he needs this vehicle for urgent personel use, i will like to know if
you can ship the car to Lagos,Nigeria.and if i can pay by cashier cheque. Please
get back to me immediately for more discussion. Martins
Rich/slow old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:33:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Is this a scam?
Ya..scam.
The Nigeria shit is a
bigtime scam.
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> Whaddaya think about this? A scam?
> I don't have my
car listed in a "car dealing magazine" or anywhere else.
>
>
>Hello, I am willing to make this offer on behalf of my client. i got your
contact from the car dealing magazine and i intend to contact you my intrest
about purchasing your car. i am sure that my client will love it. because he
needs this vehicle for urgent personel use, i will like to know if you can ship
the car to Lagos,Nigeria.and if i can pay by cashier cheque. Please get back to
me immediately for more discussion. Martins
>
> Rich/slow old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:37:39
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Is this a scam? ADMIN Message
Ok, we know now that it is a
SCAM
Thanks
Roger for the Admins
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:44:54
-0400
From: "Ben M. Jones" <
benjones@protechgp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Quick RPM question
I'm almost done installing an HKS Super AFR
and have one last connection to make
TO
The RPM signal - As
descriptive as the AFR Manual is,
Is this the same as the Speed Sensor in the
manual??
Hoping for some clarity, need to drive
tomorrow!
Thanks,
Ben
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:55:43
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Quick RPM question
No, the signals are different. The frequency
is the same, but the voltage
and the pulse width are different.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gphilip/16.gifIf
HKS did not provide a good CU pinout of our cars, go to
www.apexi-usa.com documentation sections and
search for your model year. If
you have a 2nd gen or a 97+, they have an
update brochure. Our cars are
called GTO there.
Philip
At
20:44 7/7/2002, Ben M. Jones wrote:
>I'm almost done installing an HKS
Super AFR and have one last connection
>to make
>TO
>The RPM
signal - As descriptive as the AFR Manual is,
>Is this the same as
the Speed Sensor in the manual??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:59:34
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Quick RPM question
Sorry, I wanted to say you need to look for
the S-AFC or AVC-R
documentation for the ECU pinout.
At 20:55
7/7/2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>If HKS did not provide a good ECU
pinout of our cars, go to
>www.apexi-usa.com documentation sections and
search for your model year.
>If you have a 2nd gen or a 97+, they have an
update brochure. Our cars are
>called GTO
there.
>
>Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002
22:56:34 -0400
From:
neuron07@c4.comSubject: Team3S: Problem
with my idling
Ever since I bought my 3000GT (1994 Base model), I have
been having this
problem with idling. When the car is cold or warmed up with
the a/c off, the
RPM's are way too high (around 1300 RPM when I am idling).
Then, when the the
car is cold with the a/c on, the car will die (For
example: I will take of from
my house and get to the first stop sign, but
when I push in the clutch to get
ready to slow down, the RPM needle will
drop down to 0 RPM, and of course, the
car will die). This will continue to
happen until the car is warmed up (after
about 2 or 3 minutes), but it will
continue to drop down to about 200 or 300
RPM when I push in the clutch, and
then go back up to 500 or 600 RPM (idling).
But this only happens when the
a/c is on. Can someone please help me out if you
have encountered this
problem or have a suggestion for me?
Thanks,
Travis
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:17:28
-0700
From: "Team3S-Admin" <
Team3S@bobforrest.com>
Subject:
Team3S: OT - Admin Notice: Scam letter from Nigeria from (Martins)...
It
appears that most of us on the list (and anyone ever mentioned in our
website
and archives) has received a scam letter from "Martins". This
'person'
purportedly is expressing interest in *your* car, when in fact, they
are
simply trying to get a response to "farm" your email address and put you
on a
"high roller" list of people who own expensive cars. Their intent may
be
as benign as sending you spam email about their product or selling lists
of
such names to other vendors; or it might be as dangerous as an attempt
at
getting more info from you for something felonious. Do NOT
respond. Rather,
forward each incidence of the letter to the FEDS, who
love it when they see a
pattern of some scum ebombing a particular group,
after they scan the website
for (our) email addresses. Forward the
email to:
uce@ftc.gov , using the
subject,
"uce" (which stands for "unsolicited commercial email"). They
will
handle it.
Forrest
for the Admins
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:25:20
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Problem with my idling
Sounds like you have a vacuum
leak. Check your vacuum lines and ensure that
they are routed
properly. There should be a diagram under your hood. They
should
all be firmly attached with no cracks.
If you have access to a vacuum
pump with a guage then use that. My other
car was doing the same and I
finally found the problem was the valve covers
screws were loose. I
would have never found it without a vacuum guage.
Doug
92 Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:28:48
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
Somewhere in the owner's manual, it is stated that you
should stop driving
if the oil pressure light remains on while driving. This
implies that if the
oil pressure light is on ONLY at idle, then things are
okay, but is it truly
okay for the light to go on at all? The oil pressure
light is on at below
900 rpm in my TT. Things *seem* okay. I use Mobil 15W-50
full synthetic. I
do worry about internal parts... rod bearings etc that will
be affected by
low oil pressure.
Riyan
1993 stealth rt/tt
my
ride:
www.advantedgecomputing.com/stllow/stealth.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:32:08
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Quick RPM question
The engine RPM signal ECM terminal for all
DOHC 6G72 3S engines is listed on
my web page below. No, it is not the same
as the speed sensor signal (also
listed on my web page).
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ecu94.htmHint:
in future postings include the year and model of your car for more
specific
information.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Ben M. Jones" <
benjones@protechgp.com>
To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Sunday, July 07, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Team3S: Quick RPM question
I'm
almost done installing an HKS Super AFR and have one last connection to
make
TO The RPM signal - As descriptive as the AFR Manual is, Is this the
same as the Speed Sensor in the manual??
Hoping for some
clarity, need to drive tomorrow!
Thanks,
Ben
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:09:40
-0400
From: "Bedrock" <
bedrock@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
I too have the same problem with my oil light. After
reading the archives it
seems many of us with the TT have this problem but
only after it is hot and
the oil cooler kicks in? I looked in the valve cover
while the light is on
and can still see oil around the rockers. Not alot but
enough to lube. It
acts as though the increase in volume for the oil to
supply results in a
drop in pressure. As though the pump was designed for the
cars with a
specific volume as in no TT thus no cooler? Just my guess.
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, July 08, 2002 12:28 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
>
Somewhere in the owner's manual, it is stated that you should stop
driving
> if the oil pressure light remains on while driving. This implies
that if
the
> oil pressure light is on ONLY at idle, then things are
okay, but is it
truly
> okay for the light to go on at all? The oil
pressure light is on at below
> 900 rpm in my TT. Things *seem* okay. I
use Mobil 15W-50 full synthetic. I
> do worry about internal parts... rod
bearings etc that will be affected by
> low oil pressure.
>
>
Riyan
> 1993 stealth rt/tt
>
> my ride:
>
www.advantedgecomputing.com/stllow/stealth.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:36:41
-0700
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Rich...
Not sure why your question
would be considered a waste of bandwidth,
perhaps the reference was to the
"Happy Holidays" spam message sent to
the list.
At any rate, I have a
2nd gen VR4, race the open track, 1/4 mile, and
open freeway (but mostly the
1/4 mile), and, like Jim Matthews wrote, I
have NEVER seen coolant
overheating. My list of mods is in my signature
line for reference purposes.
I have seen high EGTs (WOT with 18 psi
boost) down the long straight stretch
of the open track which caused me
to turn up the fuel mix on my ARC2 but the
coolant temps have never
risen above halfway on the stock gauge. I've warped
rotors slamming from
130mph on the straight down to corner #4 at the Portland
International
Raceway so I don't think I'm babying the car but it's certainly
possible
that you run yours harder than I do. The suggestion of a radiator
cap
problem seems like an easy (and inexpensive) solution to
try.
BTW...welcome back to the land of the 1/4 mile. It's a
different
sensation than the open track. I enjoy both but find the 1/4 mile
to be
much less expensive (barring some catastrophic event) and allows me
to
constantly improve my own technique. Getting into the 12s? I know of
at
least one local VR4 owner who ran high 12s with stock
turbos.
Significant issue with the water pits...stay out of them unless you
have
drag slicks that are designed to heat up. Street tires will not
soften
and stay soft by the time you launch, all you'll do is smoke your
tires.
Looks impressive, doesn't make for good ETs. Try dropping the tire
air
pressure down to 15 psi, that will get you better
traction.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
(w/custom K&N intake, bored and polished
throttle body, TEC 15G turbos,
RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump,
ARC2/MAF fuel controller, Split Second A/F
meter, GReddy PRofec A boost
controller, Apex EGT & boost gauges, GReddy
turbo timer, HKS SBOV,
custom intercoolers, trunk mounted Optima Red Top,
Magnecore 8.5mm
wires, NGK double platinum plugs gapped at .032", ACT 2800 lb
pressure
plate, Broward six puck racing disc, Centerforce throwout bearing,
ATR
downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, Stillen
cross-drilled
rotors, Porterfield R4 race pads, SS brake lines, Eibach 1"
drop
progressive springs, strut tower bars, anti-sway bars, Michelin SX
MXX3
Pilots on factory 18" chromed wheels)
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 7:27
AM
To: Steve Cooper;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
<snip>
If there are 2nd gen cars out
there running 15 psi on a road course
without overheating, I'd like to know
how they do it. Aluminum
radiators? Bigger turbos? Maybe you just don't run
as hard as I do.
Maybe you have a 1st gen engine. You say yours never gets
over half way
on the gauge. OK, what do you have on your 2nd gen car that's
different
than mine?
<snip>
I dunno what the answer is. But
before I spend $780 on an aluminum
radiator, I'd like to know.
If I
was the only one with the problem, then I'd try to figure out
what's wrong
with my car. But because other 2nd gens have reported the
exact same problem
under the exact same conditions, I think it's
something else.
I
think it is a legitimate question. I think I am on to something. I
thought
that's what this tech list was all about -- finding answers to
questions
about pushing our cars to the limit. Sorry if you think it's
BS.
Rich/slow old poop/apparent bandwaster.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:43:07
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
I see two mods on your car that could
contribute to cooler running: TEC 15G turbos and RC 560cc injectors. I don't
quite understand how it all works, but I think the bigger injectors keep
combustion temps down, and the bigger turbos don't work as hard. Somebody
correct me if this is wrong.
Thanks for contributing. Every clue will
lead us to a solution. Somebody out there will put it all together and figure
out what's happening to 2nd gens.
Rich
Chris Winkley
wrote:
>At any rate, I have a 2nd gen VR4, race the open track, 1/4 mile,
and
>open freeway (but mostly the 1/4 mile) and, like Jim Matthews wrote,
I
>have NEVER seen coolant overheating. My list of mods is in my
signature
>line for reference purposes. <snip>
>1995 Glacier
Pearl White VR4 (w/custom K&N intake, bored and polished
>throttle
body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 560cc injectors,
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:08:01
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
1) Larger injectors only keep temps
down..if in fact you didnt have enough
fuel on the stock injectors. I
dont think 15psi on stockers counts as
horribly lean..therefore wouldnt be
that much hotter.
2) Larger turbos will generate MORE heat at the same
PSI levels, as the
air charge is denser, and therefore requires more fuel to
burn properly
(IE: More generated heat)
So no..his combination will
make more heat at 15psi, than stockers on
stock injectors at 15psi.
On
Mon, 8 Jul 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> I see two mods on your car that could contribute to cooler
running: TEC 15G turbos and RC 560cc injectors. I don't quite understand how it
all works, but I think the bigger injectors keep combustion temps down, and the
bigger turbos don't work as hard. Somebody correct me if this is wrong.
>
> Thanks for contributing. Every clue will lead us to a solution.
Somebody out there will put it all together and figure out what's happening to
2nd gens.
>
> Rich
>
> Chris Winkley wrote:
>
>At any rate, I have a 2nd gen VR4, race the open track, 1/4 mile,
and
> >open freeway (but mostly the 1/4 mile) and, like Jim Matthews
wrote, I
> >have NEVER seen coolant overheating. My list of mods is in
my signature
> >line for reference purposes. <snip>
>
>1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/custom K&N intake, bored and
polished
> >throttle body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 560cc injectors,
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:28:40
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Not trying to be jerk here, but who else
besides you is overheating? I know
of 4 2nd gens running up here, 2 running
higher boost with no overheating.
Thanks,
Francis
'96
RT/TT(not overheating)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netTo: Chris
Winkley
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSent:
7/8/02 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Track
Overheating
>>Somebody out there will put it all together and
figure out what's
>>happening to 2nd
gens.
>>Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:36:38
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: A day at the races
Rich,
Have you ever actually
"flushed" your cooling system? This involves getting
the car up to
operating temperature, diverting flow from the upper radiator
hose to a waste
container, and replacing fluid through the radiator itself
until the fluid
coming out is nice and clean. Then you drain the clean fluid
from the
radiator drain valve and add antifreeze and and top off with water.
You can
do this with or without a fancy "radiator flush" additive.
Just draining
the fluid and refilling doesn't really do the trick - it has
to be hot to get
all the crap into solution/suspension. Until you have done
this, it's
hard to claim that the overheating thing is a generic problem
with 2nd gen
cars.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:08
AM
> To: Furman, Russell;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: A day at the races
>
> I sure wish SOMEBODY
could solve the problem of: why do we overheat when
> we run lots of
boost? I am not entirely sure that an aluminum racing
> radiator will
solve the problem, but I'll give it a go.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:56:08
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Do they run road course type
abuse?
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Morice, Francis wrote:
> Not trying
to be jerk here, but who else besides you is overheating? I know
> of 4
2nd gens running up here, 2 running higher boost with no overheating.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Francis
> '96 RT/TT(not
overheating)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:49:13
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
The 2 of us running higher boost drive it
like we stole it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff
Mohler
To: Morice, Francis
Cc:
'merritt@cedar-rapids.net ';
'Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st '
Sent:
7/8/02 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
>>Do they
run road course type abuse?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:00:34
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Answer the question..on a road
course?
Theres a difference..a huge one.
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002,
Morice, Francis wrote:
> The 2 of us running higher boost drive it
like we stole it.
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:54:55
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Yes, on a road course, specifically a 3.2
mile road course with a mile
straightaway. I am just trying to figure out why
this is being generalized,
that's all.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
To: Morice, Francis
Cc:
''merritt@cedar-rapids.net ' ';
''Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st '
'
Sent: 7/8/02 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Track
Overheating
>>Answer the question..on a road
course?
>>Theres a difference..a huge one.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:05:33
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Cool..thanks.
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002,
Morice, Francis wrote:
> Yes, on a road course, specifically a 3.2
mile road course with a mile
> straightaway. I am just trying to figure
out why this is being generalized,
> that's all.
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
> To: Morice,
Francis
> Cc:
''merritt@cedar-rapids.net ' ';
''Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st '
'
> Sent: 7/8/02 12:00 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Track
Overheating
>
> >>Answer the question..on a road
course?
>
> >>Theres a difference..a huge
one.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:02:45
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
I do not believe this is being generalized,
I have heard pretty much the
same thing............ However the one
constant among all of the cars is
the driver dependence on 2nd gear (instead
of carrying more speed into the
corner, drivers are slowing down for it then
using the last 2K rpms to
rocket out of the corner)
Truthfully if you
are going to be involved in HPDE's you should have a new
thermostat, hoses,
and cap. I also recommend that you have you radiator
core flow
tested and while out being flow tested have the sucker back
flushed (Yep
exactly what it sounds like).
Russ F
CT
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Morice, Francis
[SMTP:francis.morice@retek.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:55
PM
> To: 'Geoff Mohler '
> Cc:
'''merritt@cedar-rapids.net ' ' ';
'''Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st ' '
'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
>
> Yes, on a road
course, specifically a 3.2 mile road course with a mile
> straightaway. I
am just trying to figure out why this is being
> generalized,
>
that's all.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:08:42
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Track Overheating
> > I see two mods on your car that could
contribute to
> > cooler running: TEC 15G turbos and RC 560cc
>
> injectors. I don't quite understand how it
> > all works, but I
think the bigger injectors
> > keep combustion temps down, and the
bigger turbos
> > don't work as hard. Somebody correct me if
this
> > is wrong.
> 2) Larger turbos will generate MORE heat
at the same PSI
> levels, as the air charge is denser, and
therefore
> requires more fuel to burn properly
> (IE: More
generated heat)
Geoff, can you explain your comment above in a little
more detail? I'd have
thunk it differently.
At a given manifold
pressure, intake temperature and engine VE, the mass air
flow will be
identical, no matter what you're using to compress the air (big
turbo, little
turbo, supercharger, SpiralMax ;) I think Jeff L. must cringe
every
time that crippled, blind, deaf, tail-less, decapitated,
but-not-dead-yet
horse rears its ugly head once again, only to be beaten
into
submission... Thus there would not be a difference in heat
generated
due to combustion when using different turbos at the same manifold
pressure
and intake air temperature.
AFAIK, the smaller turbos would
have to "work harder" (IOW spin faster) than
the larger turbos to maintain
the same pressure and flow rate as a larger
turbo, and thus would generate
more heat both in the housing (engine bay)
and in the intake charge. I
think at 15psi (what Rich was talking about)
the stock 9Bs are out of their
reasonably-efficient range on the compressor
map (<70%) at anything over
4500RPM, especially for a modified engine.
With the larger turbos, they
should be running a cooler housing temperature
and also have a cooler output
on the compressor side (at the given pressure;
i.e. 15psi) because they are
operating in a more efficient area of the
compressor map.
The only way
I can see a larger turbo generating more total heat in the car
than a smaller
turbo is if the larger turbo generates an output temperature
that is way
lower than the smaller turbo and the intercooler efficiency of
the car is
such that there is a large difference in the intake air temp *at
the
manifold* when comparing the different turbos. Is this what you were
implying
when you said that the larger turbo would generate more heat?
BTW, I
snagged a GReddy P/H/W Temperature gauge and tested it to see if I
could use
it as an air temp gauge by blowing a hair dryer across the sensor.
It's too
slow to respond, so I think it's only good for water/oil temps...
which is
what I'll use it for. Anyway, where can I get a fast-acting gauge
I can
use for an air temp meter? I'll be happy to do the data collection
on
intake temps at various points in the intake tract under
different
conditions to help address issues like the above... and issues like
whether
bigger intercoolers are useful at all when using bigger turbos and
pump gas
(staying in the 15-16psi range). I just need to find a
!#@%!@# gauge! :-)
- --Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:13:55
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
As far as I can tell there is no "normal" mark.
Oil pressure is dependent on
rpm, and the real question is "do you have any
oil pressure?", if "yes"
that's good, if no that's bad. My first gen
has much higher oil pressure on
the stock gauge at the same rpms as my 2nd
gen.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael
Neill [SMTP:dblxx@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:30
AM
> To:
Team3S@team3s.com>
Subject: Team3S: Oil Pressure
>
> Just purchased a 1997 VR-4 and
while driving it home noticed that around
> 2,000 RPM Oil pressure gauge
drops down below the normal mark. When you
> accelerate, the needle rises
once again. Oil level is normal, could this
> be
> a faulty oil
pressure sensor, or something more serious?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:24:33
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
> > 2) Larger turbos will generate
MORE heat at the same PSI
> > levels, as the air charge is denser, and
therefore
> > requires more fuel to burn properly
>
> At a
given manifold pressure, intake temperature and engine VE, the mass air
>
flow will be identical, no matter what you're using to compress the air
(big
> turbo, little turbo, supercharger, SpiralMax ;) I think Jeff
L. must cringe
> every time that crippled, blind, deaf, tail-less,
decapitated,
> but-not-dead-yet horse rears its ugly head once again, only
to be beaten
> into submission... Thus there would not be a
difference in heat generated
> due to combustion when using different
turbos at the same manifold pressure
> and intake air temperature.
-
---
No, a larger more efficient turbo will move more air mass, as the same
PSI
as a smaller less-efficient turbo at the same manifold pressure. If
you
have more air mass, you need more fuel to burn properly..and this
will
generate more energy..and what..60% of that is wasted as heat or
so? So
staying at the same boost, on a larger turbo, will stress a
cooling system
mor than stock turbos as the same psi.
> AFAIK, the
smaller turbos would have to "work harder" (IOW spin faster) than
> the
larger turbos to maintain the same pressure and flow rate as a larger
>
turbo, and thus would generate more heat both in the housing (engine
bay)
> and in the intake charge. I think at 15psi (what Rich was
talking about)
> the stock 9Bs are out of their reasonably-efficient range
on the compressor
> map (<70%) at anything over 4500RPM, especially for
a modified engine.
- ---
True, but thats a minor factor..very minor.
Intake temps wont increase
coolant temps..it will induce knock and bring down
actual performance at
the extremes.
> With the larger turbos,
they should be running a cooler housing temperature
> and also have a
cooler output on the compressor side (at the given pressure;
> i.e. 15psi)
because they are operating in a more efficient area of the
> compressor
map.
- ---
True, now read my first paragraph in this post, you get more
-air-. Were
not talking intake temps.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:31:19
-0700
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
Just to fill in the blanks, pressure depends upon
the oil pump. The pump is
just two gears that mesh tightly. As they turn they
force oil into the oil
system. As the engine gets older the oil pump gears
start to wear. They
almost never wear all the way out or break. Lower oil
pressure results from
slop accumulating in the way the gears mesh and they
then don't pump as much
oil. If you have any oil pressure at all then the
pump is working. It also
follows that at idle rpm's pressure will be low. I
installed a pressure
guage on my old Harley 74 and when it idled the guage
read zero. It ran fine
for many years just that way.
One way to up the
pressure in a worn engine is by using heavier oil. 20-50
shouldn't hurt our
cars. Likewise, a little bardohl should do no harm. I am
not well versed on
turbos so if anyone reading this thinks I am in error
please chime
in.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E."
<
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
"'Michael Neill'" <
dblxx@bellsouth.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Monday, July
08, 2002 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil Pressure
| As far as I can
tell there is no "normal" mark. Oil pressure is dependent
on
| rpm, and
the real question is "do you have any oil pressure?", if "yes"
| that's good,
if no that's bad. My first gen has much higher oil pressure
on
| the
stock gauge at the same rpms as my 2nd gen.
| Chuck
|
| >
-----Original Message-----
| > From: Michael Neill
[SMTP:dblxx@bellsouth.net]
| > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:30 AM
|
> To:
Team3S@team3s.com| >
Subject: Team3S: Oil Pressure
| >
| > Just purchased a 1997 VR-4 and
while driving it home noticed that around
| > 2,000 RPM Oil pressure gauge
drops down below the normal mark. When you
| > accelerate, the needle
rises once again. Oil level is normal, could this
| > be
| > a
faulty oil pressure sensor, or something more serious?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#892
***************************************
