Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, July 7
2002 Volume 01 : Number
891
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:15:15 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Track Overheating
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
A>On a 95F day in Sunny (that day) Washington state, my black (didn't
help
> >with heat) 1995 VR-4 would start climbing on the temp gauge
after about 5
> >hot laps (1.2mi with 2 low speed sections in 2nd gear,
including a hairpin
> >where you're down to 20mph) An easy lap
after that would bring it right
> >back down.
> So I am NOT
crazy. Well, I might be crazy, but I am not the only one suffering overheating
problems when using lots of boost.
His post said he's only running
10 psi --- below stock ---. The problem seems to
be rather hit and miss, I
think it has to do with some problem with individual cars,
e.g. --- you might
have a partially blocked radiator and not be able to tell without
taking it
apart. Or my favorite, underpanels --- my Stealth [ without active aero ]
has
a rectangular opening below and just in front of the radiator on the bottom
of
the car to direct air up to the radiator from below. Some cars with
minimal front
grill openings rely on directing air from the bottom of the car
to provide cooling.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 12:42:22
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
>His post said he's only running 10 psi
--- below stock ---. The problem seems to
>be rather hit and miss, I think
it has to do with some problem with individual cars,
Yeah, but I had the
EXACT same problem when I ran my car bone stock three years ago. Too much 2nd
gear running, and it overheated. I think it is a common (but still undefined by
this 3S group) problem among 2nd gen cars that only shows up when we push them
hard. Roger has had two 2nd gen cars overheat on dynos, and there are enough
anecdotal stories of 2nd gen cars overheating on tracks to make me believe that
there is a fundamental problem somewhere in the 2nd gen cooling
system.
If I thought I just had a mechanical problem with my car, I would
not bother the list with it. I know I am like a dog with a bone here, and I
apologize to the 1st gens and drag racers for pursuing this line of inquiry.
I am still waiting for an open track racer to come along and say, "yes I
had overheating problems with my 2nd gen VR4 but I cured it by blah, blah."
>e.g. --- you might have a partially blocked radiator and not be able
to tell without
>taking it apart.
I am thinking it might be time
to take the beast to an honest-to-Pete radiator shop and get it tested for flow.
Like you say, it just might be a problem with my car -- An air pocket, for
example. It probably doesn't take much to push us over the limit.
Rich/slow old poop>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 12:53:52
-0500
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Track Overheating
At 12:42 PM 7/6/02 -0500,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
>I think it is a common (but still undefined by this 3S group)
problem
>among 2nd gen cars that only shows up when we push them hard.
Roger has
>had two 2nd gen cars overheat on dynos, and there are enough
anecdotal
>stories of 2nd gen cars overheating on tracks to make me
believe that
>there is a fundamental problem somewhere in the 2nd gen
cooling system.
I think it's a problem for both generations......the
radiator is small and
not designed for racing.
I have the radiator
that someone mentioned earlier, it works GREAT. I have
not been on a track
yet, but the only time the stock gage reads "half"
(never above half) is
sitting in traffic with the A/C on. Cruising down the
highway it stays at
about "1/3" on the stock gage.
It's sweet..........
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:35:09
-0400
From: "Bedrock" <
bedrock@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Track Overheating
Not for nothing but have the cars with the
overheating problems checked the
cap on the radiator to see if it is working
at the stated pressure? Any
garage can pressure check a cap.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 16:34:27
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
At 05:35 PM 7/6/02 -0400, Bedrock
wrote:
>Not for nothing but have the cars with the overheating problems
checked the
>cap on the radiator to see if it is working at the stated
pressure? Any
>garage can pressure check a cap.
I haven't. Think it
really matters? There's plenty of pressure in there, I know that.
(Just
asking, not being a smartass)
Rich/slow old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:52:54
+0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Track Overheating
>> Not for nothing but have the cars with
the
>> overheating problems checked thecap on the
>> radiator
to see if it is working at the stated
>> pressure?
> I
haven't. Think it really matters? There's plenty
> of pressure in there, I
know that.
The pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant,
so
if it won't hold pressure then you might be boiling
some of your
coolant. Rather than check the cap you
might just replace it as a
precaution since the rubber
seal probably gets a little brittle with age
anyway.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 19:04:59
-0700
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo swap problem
I'm in the process of installing a set of
13g(used) on my car. I'll post
some pics of the trashed 9b's later.
We
have a broken stud in the stuck in the new front turbo. We've tried
vice
grips. Heat. wd40, And Phillip even tried welding a bar to it to break
it
free.
http://www.mi3si.org/turboswap/MVC-219F.JPGhttp://www.mi3si.org/turboswap/MVC-220F.JPGhttp://www.mi3si.org/turboswap/MVC-221F.JPGNow
what?
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:21:15
-0700 (PDT)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo swap problem
I also have a 92 and did the swap to 13G's
several
months ago. Some of the studs where stuck, but I don't
recal
needing them as I bought new ones when I put in
the new 13G,s. They have them
at Lowes in the metric
section marked metric engine studs, far cheaper
then
the dealer. One of the turbos had three stuck bolts.
If you need to
get it out then drill through it with
several different sizes geting closer
to the sides
each time at some point you can stick a stud puller in
"the
type that loods like a long triangle". Take it
out and work on a bench so you
can drill from the flat
bottom. If the bolt is the one on the turbo then
no
worry as you don't need it.
Peter
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:08:44
-0700
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo swap problem
we tried drilling and were not getting
anywhere wore two bits out.
And the stud is on the replacment turbo. It
has to com eout so we can
install the turbo.
Alan
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "menalteed" <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
To: "Alan C.
Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Cc: "tam 3S"
<
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent:
Saturday, July 06, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo swap
problem
> I also have a 92 and did the swap to 13G's
several
> months ago. Some of the studs where stuck, but I don't
>
recal needing them as I bought new ones when I put in
> the new 13G,s.
They have them at Lowes in the metric
> section marked metric engine
studs, far cheaper then
> the dealer. One of the turbos had three stuck
bolts.
> If you need to get it out then drill through it with
>
several different sizes geting closer to the sides
> each time at some
point you can stick a stud puller in
> "the type that loods like a long
triangle". Take it
> out and work on a bench so you can drill from the
flat
> bottom. If the bolt is the one on the turbo then no
> worry
as you don't need it.
>
> Peter
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:21:06
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo swap problem
> we tried drilling and were not
getting anywhere wore two bits out.
>
> And the stud is on the
replacment turbo. It has to com eout so we can
> install the
turbo.
If it is on the turbo, what I would recommend you take it to a
machine shop
and have them remove it.
I had a bolt sheer off on my
front turbo when I replaced my exhaust
manifold. After 3 hours, much
cursing, two wore out drill bits and a broken
easy-out I gave up for the
night. The next day I took it to a machine shop
and they had it out in
an hour and only charged me $35. I thought it was
well worth the
price.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:32:31
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
Yes..caps are a huge part of
cooling.
A weak cal causes coolant to escape the system prematurely..less
coolant =
less thermal capacity of the system = easier to overheat.
On
Sat, 6 Jul 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> At 05:35 PM 7/6/02 -0400, Bedrock wrote:
> >Not for
nothing but have the cars with the overheating problems checked the
>
>cap on the radiator to see if it is working at the stated pressure?
Any
> >garage can pressure check a cap.
>
> I haven't.
Think it really matters? There's plenty of pressure in there, I know
that.
> (Just asking, not being a smartass)
>
> Rich/slow old
poop
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:11:02
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Track Overheating
Only to the extent that they raise the boiling point of
the liquid --- well, I
guess they serve to keep the fluid in the car also. A
bad cap would result
in the loss of fluid and I don't think that's on his
list of problems.
Jim
Berry
=============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Yes..caps are a huge part of cooling.
>
> A weak cal causes coolant
to escape the system prematurely..less coolant =
> less thermal capacity
of the system = easier to overheat.
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
>
> > At 05:35 PM 7/6/02 -0400, Bedrock wrote:
>
> >Not for nothing but have the cars with the overheating problems checked
the
> > >cap on the radiator to see if it is working at the stated
pressure? Any
> > >garage can pressure check a cap.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:25:38
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
You would lose it on the track, but get it
back as you cooled down. So
its a loss you would not really
see.
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, fastmax wrote:
> Only to the extent
that they raise the boiling point of the liquid --- well, I
> guess they
serve to keep the fluid in the car also. A bad cap would result
> in the
loss of fluid and I don't think that's on his list of problems.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 00:44:59
EDT
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Track Overheating
My friend has a coolant pressure and cap
tester. When i told him that my
coolant light kept comin on, he told me to
test the system. Turns out the cap
held almost no pressure, only bout 5 psi.
I ordered a new one from Mitsu for
12 bucks.
When i compared the 2
caps, i could not tell the difference-neither looked
worn. the spring and
rubber seal on the old one looked fine. SO dont think
that just by
lookin at it u can tell a good one from a bad one. And no
matter WHAT
kind of coolant system setup u have, the cap is as important as
any other
part. Without it, you cant stay pressurized, and your juices will
overheat.
Im sorry if im stating the obvious guys-but to Rich and a couple of the
other
guys-sometimes the answer is so simple but we rip our brains
apart lookin
for the it anyway. . .especially on these cars.
-
-Mike
97 SL
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 23:42:05
-0600
From: "Kyle Call" <
redcelicagt@cableone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Rear Ended....need bumper info
Hey all,
I was rear ended
tonight by a teenager out cruising in a 4 door Integra with
one of those
hideous 10 foot tall spoilers. Anyway, he scraped the PLASTIC
part of my 93
SL. Its not cracked. My question is, are the bumper and the
plastic piece
seperate, or are just one piece. Does anyone know the
cost
?(approximation).....Oddly, someone hit my car less than a month
ago,
so....If you're ever in Idaho, watch out for crazy drivers
!
Thanks in advance
Kyle Call
93 SL
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 23:00:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear Ended....need bumper info
The skin is separate..probly
take you an hour to swap at the most.
Cost..dunno, but shouldnt be
expensive. I paid like $500 (parts + paint)
for a new Toyota front skin
for my GT4 from Japan.
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, Kyle Call wrote:
>
Hey all,
> I was rear ended tonight by a teenager out cruising in a 4 door
Integra with
> one of those hideous 10 foot tall spoilers. Anyway, he
scraped the PLASTIC
> part of my 93 SL. Its not cracked. My question is,
are the bumper and the
> plastic piece seperate, or are just one piece.
Does anyone know the cost
> ?(approximation).....Oddly, someone hit my car
less than a month ago,
> so....If you're ever in Idaho, watch out for
crazy drivers !
>
> Thanks in advance
> Kyle Call
> 93
SL
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 00:20:34
-0600
From: "Kyle Call" <
redcelicagt@cableone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear Ended....need bumper info
Is this an easy enough job
that a dunce like me can swap it?
If so, could someone please give
instructions?
BTW, Geoff..I was surfing around and stumbled upon your
celica about a month
ago, wasnt sure if it was yours or another Geoff Mohler
:-), but i like what
you did with the front brakes...very
interesting
Thanks
Kyle Call
93 SL
> The skin is
separate..probly take you an hour to swap at the most.
>
>
Cost..dunno, but shouldnt be expensive. I paid like $500 (parts +
paint)
> for a new Toyota front skin for my GT4 from
Japan.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 23:34:05
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear Ended....need bumper info
Celica:
Thanks!
And ya..its pretty straight forward..remove the tail lights, the
center
bar between the lights..and right THERE are 80% of the
bolts.
The rest are under the car..easy, and two on each side which are a
PITA,
but achievable. Very simple.
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Kyle Call
wrote:
> Is this an easy enough job that a dunce like me can swap
it?
> If so, could someone please give instructions?
>
> BTW,
Geoff..I was surfing around and stumbled upon your celica about a month
>
ago, wasnt sure if it was yours or another Geoff Mohler :-), but i like
what
> you did with the front brakes...very interesting
>
>
Thanks
> Kyle Call
> 93 SL
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:35:02
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
Hmmm....There might be something to this. I
notice that the car is OK for a while, then starts to overheat/cool off, then
takes shorter times to overheat, and then I gotta add water, because lots of it
is gone. Could be the root of the problem -- that is, it keeps losing a little
bit of water each time it heats up until it loses enough, then goes critical.
I'm not sure it's the answer to the problem, but I will definitely buy a new rad
cap. Thanks Geoff.
At 05:32 PM 7/6/02 -0700, Geoff Mohler
wrote:
>Yes..caps are a huge part of cooling.
>
>A weak cal
causes coolant to escape the system prematurely..less coolant =
>less
thermal capacity of the system = easier to overheat.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:38:19
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
>Im sorry if im stating the obvious
guys-but to Rich and a couple of the other
>guys-sometimes the answer is
so simple but we rip our brains apart lookin
>for the it anyway. .
.especially on these cars.
>
Mike's right. Sometimes the answer is
simple. That's why I don't want to buy a $780 radiator if a $12 radiator cap
solves the problem.
Rich
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:29:48
-0500
From: "Michael Neill" <
dblxx@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
Just purchased a 1997 VR-4 and while driving it home
noticed that around
2,000 RPM Oil pressure gauge drops down below the normal
mark. When you
accelerate, the needle rises once again. Oil level is normal,
could this be
a faulty oil pressure sensor, or something more
serious?
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:38:53
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Fast and Furious in real life
My daughter and I (in my VR4 and
her Stealth) cruised down to the Fast and Furious speed shop in Cedar Rapids
last night. There were 100 or so ricers gathered, and everyone was going drag
racing at the Cedar Falls, Iowa, dragway, an hour up the road.
It was
like a scene from the Fast and Furious movie: all these ricers with blue lights
on their hoods, red lights on their wheels, purple lights under their car, 10 ft
tall spoilers, and four inch coffee can exhausts, all a'cruising down the
highway. The word had gotten out, and upwards of 500 cars showed up at midnight,
with a thousand or more spectators. It was like a scene from another movie
(Field of Dreams), where a long line of cars with headlights on arrives at a
ballpark in the middle of an Iowa cornfield. There were cars arriving from as
far as you could see back down the road. Eerie. Especially since we were about
20 minutes away from the real movie ballpark/cornfield.
Only about 60
cars actually drag raced, including (blush) me, for the very first time in 40
years.
I didn't even know how to stage. "Hey, gramps, back up about 20
ft. The lights are back here."
Man, were we out of place. I was the
oldest poop there, and my daughter is due soon. She didn't run because she is
preggers, and everybody in the entire world gallantly offered to drive her
gorgeous red Stealth, clearly the most beautiful car there.
To make a
long story short, I made five runs, cranking off a best of 13.141 at 104.69,
with a 60 ft time of 1.899 and a terrible reaction time of 1.074. It was easy to
smoke all four tires, because I drove through the bleach, but didn't clean off
the tires: I just launched with wet tires. They tell me I had spectactular
smokey launches.
The best part is that I beat the organizer of the entire
event, who runs a stock 3000GT VR4 with NOS. I guess that makes me the Big Dog
in Cedar Rapids now. I can "cruise the Ave", and have all the ricers say
"there's that bad ass Mitsubishi that beat Trent." Oooooh. I am BAD
now.
I hate to admit it, because I've made so much fun of drag racing
over the years, but I actually enjoyed it, and I can see why you guys get hooked
on it. When those tires spin and catch, and the car launches like a rocketship,
it's kinda addictive. I hear myself thinking, "hmmm....what do I have to do to
get into the twelves?"
I might go do this again. How DO you get into the
twelves? Oops. This is the wrong list for that question, isn't
it?
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4 with DSBC @15 psi, Alamo
intercoolers, Stillen downpipe, custom straight through single-side catback,
Supra pump, K&N.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:51:39
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Fast and Furious in real life
110 leaded and 18 psi of boost
ought to give you high 12's.
Then there's propane injection and 22 psi [
or whatever your
turbos will provide ], that might get you into the high 11's
or
low 12's.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:42:21
-0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure
As long as your low oil pressure light isn't illuminating
you're fine. If
you want to go a little further normal idle for a TT is
around the 2nd or
3rd small hash mark up from the bottom of the oil pressure
gauge.
Trevor
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael
Neill" <
dblxx@bellsouth.net>
To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Sunday, July
07, 2002 8:29 AM
Subject: Team3S: Oil Pressure
> Just purchased a
1997 VR-4 and while driving it home noticed that around
> 2,000 RPM Oil
pressure gauge drops down below the normal mark. When you
> accelerate,
the needle rises once again. Oil level is normal, could this
be
> a
faulty oil pressure sensor, or something more serious?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:01:33
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Pressure
At 11:29 7/7/2002, Michael Neill wrote:
>Just
purchased a 1997 VR-4 and while driving it home noticed that around
>2,000
RPM Oil pressure gauge drops down below the normal mark. When
you
>accelerate, the needle rises once again. Oil level is normal, could
this be
>a faulty oil pressure sensor, or something more
serious?
That sounds normal. I try to keep my car above 2000 rpm if I am
under any
load. Also, the car does not drive well below 2000 rpm.
I
use Mobil1 15W-50 in the summer. It bumps my pressure up by one notch
over
regular 5W-30. The engine sounds and feels better with it
too.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
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------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#891
***************************************
