Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, July 4
2002 Volume 01 : Number
889
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:10:10 -0500
From: "Jeff" <
spydervr4@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: EGR block-off w/o check-engine light
What year car do you
have? My EGR has been blocked off for 3 years and it's
never set a
CEL. Blocked off at the tube (tube removed.) 1995
california
emissions, non-OBDII
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder
VR-4
'01 Chevrolet Silverado HD Duramax
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, July 03, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR block-off w/o
check-engine light
> I've had my EGR removed for several months, and
had the CEL light come on
> only once. After looking up the above
specifics, I now make sure I'm
always
> cruising at above 2300 RPMs,
and I haven't seen the CEL since.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:25:47
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Now Catch Can, was HELP! Massive oil AT y-pipe
I've studied
the info about krank vent and think it is BS too. The PCV is
only there for
emmissions, to suck vapours out of the crankcase under
partial throttle.
Under boost the valve closes to stop the pressure in the
intake manifold
going into the crankcase, the blowby pressure goes straight
out of the other
hose to atmospheric pressure near the MAS. How could
fitting a Krank vent
possibly reduce crankcase pressure? If the PCV is
leaking then either replace
it or clean it.
Steve
I understand that the Krant-Vent is a
great solution if funding is
> available, and I also agree on a sealed
catch can versus a breather, but
> I ask for clarification
here:
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:31:18
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Idle stepper motor went bad, dealer says...
More BS
I
repair ECUs and have never seen that as a cause.
The stepper motor is
driven by "driver ICs", yes they can burn up but are
readily available and
can be easily repaired. .Once I had to replace a
driver IC because the boost
control soleniod was shorted. Just another
dealer trying to get a free
job.
Steve
Well the dealer says that usually it cooks the computer
and it
> will have to be replaced as well. If not the new contol motor
won't
> work because the computer will burn it up
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:16:55
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Team3S: Track Overheating
Today must be the BS day for the
list.
One person makes a statement that all our cars overheat at high
boost on the
track then many others try to explain why. Well mine never gets
over half
way on the gauge. Maybe your radiator needs a
flush?
Steve
> > At 10:46 AM 7/3/02 -0400, Furman, Russell
wrote:
> > I sure wish SOMEBODY could solve the problem of: why do we
overheat when
> > we run lots of boost? I am not entirely sure that an
aluminum racing
> > radiator will solve the problem, but I'll give it a
go.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:08:58
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Track Overheating
> Is there anyone out there with a 2nd gen
running open track events
at 15 psi and NOT overheating?
I've had my
AVC-R set to either .95 (A) or 1.00 (B) since fall 1997
(4.5 years!) and have
never, NEVER seen the temp gauge rise above
normal. Not on the Autobahn
at 170 mph, which requires full boost for
extended periods. Not on the
dyno in Switzerland where the engine was
held at maximum horsepower RPM while
I fiddled with boost limits to
find the knock threshold - EXTREMELY hard on
the engine. Not at
altitude on the Grossglocknerstrasse, which involved
lots of 2nd gear
running (though my AVC-R doesn't let the boost go above .7
bar when
above 5k feet elevation) and a spewing coolant overflow tank
when
parked nose downhill. And not at my first track day with one 2nd
gear
corner. I run a 50/50 coolant mix and 93 (US) octane unleaded with
no
fuel or cooling mods, unless a plethora of bent radiator
and
intercooler fins counts. Speaking of which, I once saw a little
tool
that makes it easy to straighten those out... anyone know if
they
really work and where they are sold?
- - --
Jim Matthews -
Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 11:16:16
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Now Catch Can, was HELP! Massive oil AT y-pipe
Dude, the
stock PCV valve will go bad again when running more than 1 bars
of boost.
Not for everyone but many have been reported the thing bad. So
you have
several of them at home do you ? With the different size of the
valves of
the KrankVents the possible crankcase pressure is getting
reduced. I called
it also BS once until I checked out the functionality and
I learned ! In my
point of view, the KV kit is something like an insurance
for preventing
anything bad to the PCV system and too much crankcase
pressure.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 19:25 04.07.2002 +1200,
Steve Cooper wrote:
>I've studied the info about krank vent and think it
is BS too. The PCV is
>only there for emmissions, to suck vapours out of
the crankcase under
>partial throttle. Under boost the valve closes to
stop the pressure in the
>intake manifold going into the crankcase, the
blowby pressure goes straight
>out of the other hose to atmospheric
pressure near the MAS. How could
>fitting a Krank vent possibly reduce
crankcase pressure? If the PCV is
>leaking then either replace it or clean
it.
>
>Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:13:08
EDT
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
Krankvent
I am considering installing the "Krankvent" on my car. I
know initially
everyone was excited about this device, however it then
appeared as though it
did little or nothing in resolving any of our
issues. I would appreciate any
imput any of you may have on this
device. Regards Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:25:09
-0700 (PDT)
From: Casey Spivey <
spiv99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Possible to clean the Idle stepper motor?
I would really like my car for
tonight:) If I get the new ISC motor I
can't even order it till tomorrow. I
ran across a website for the 3.0
Mitsu engines of what to do. The link
is
http://www.4x4wire.com/mitsubishi/tech/throttle_body/
What do you
guys think. It hasn't completely quit on me and actually the
drive
home last night, 40 miles, it didn't act up one bit. I would like
to
get it through the weekend at least. Is that safe? What's the
actual
risk? Thanks, Casey
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:34:54
-0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Krankvent
I think that many people were just trying it to see
if it would cure their
smoking problems (rings, bad turbos, valve stems, etc.
.... anything that
caused their car to smoke) instead of what it could
actually help: blowby.
That's why it did nothing for most people.
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
StealthCT@aol.comSent: Thursday, July
04, 2002 9:13 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Krankvent
I am considering installing the "Krankvent" on my
car. I know initially
everyone was excited about this device, however
it then appeared as though
it
did little or nothing in resolving any of
our issues. I would appreciate
any
imput any of you may have on this
device. Regards Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 09:26:46
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
At 07:16 PM 7/4/02 +1200, Steve Cooper
wrote:
>Today must be the BS day for the list.
>One person makes a
statement that all our cars overheat at high boost on the
>track then many
others try to explain why. Well mine never gets over half
>way on the
gauge. Maybe your radiator needs a flush?
>
Excuuuuuse me for
trying to track down a problem I've had ever since getting into this open track
stuff. YES I've replaced the water pump and YES I flushed the radiator and YES I
have a low temp thermostat and YES I run water wetter.
Right now I am
trying to find out if there is a difference in 1st gen and 2nd gen engines (as
Roger suggested). I have observed that 1st gen people don't seem to have
overheating problems.
It also appears that the Yurpean cars, which have
bigger turbos, don't have the problem. Maybe there is something else different
with the Yurpean cars.
If there are 2nd gen cars out there running 15
psi on a road course without overheating, I'd like to know how they do it.
Aluminum radiators? Bigger turbos? Maybe you just don't run as hard as I do.
Maybe you have a 1st gen engine. You say yours never gets over half way on the
gauge. OK, what do you have on your 2nd gen car that's different than mine?
The folks at Prentis Performance Engineering (the ones who sell an
aluminum radiator for our cars) seem to think there's a problem, otherwise they
wouldn't be building and selling radiators.
Here's their marketing
BS:
(
www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/2928/radiator.htm)
"Why
you need this radiator:
During low speed racing, on the street or on a small
track, high engine temps and low air flow may over stress or be too much for the
stock cooling system to handle. The increased efficiency and increased
airflow(from the high performance fans) will make your cooling system strong
enough for almost anything"
I dunno what the answer is. But before I
spend $780 on an aluminum radiator, I'd like to know.
If I was the only
one with the problem, then I'd try to figure out what's wrong with my car. But
because other 2nd gens have reported the exact same problem under the exact same
conditions, I think it's something else.
I think it is a
legitimate question. I think I am on to something. I thought that's what this
tech list was all about -- finding answers to questions about pushing our cars
to the limit. Sorry if you think it's BS.
Rich/slow old poop/apparent
bandwaster.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 16:44:35
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating ADMIN NOTE
>At 07:16 PM 7/4/02 +1200,
Steve Cooper wrote:
> >Today must be the BS day for the
list.
Please note that we are discussing issues on the list to find
solutions or
the cause for the problems people are involved with their cars.
We cannot
see any problem and the cause for using this abbreviation in every
post !!
Thanks for keeping the etiquette and contribute with great
input.
Roger for the Admins
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:28:26
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Now Catch Can, was HELP! Massive oil AT y-pipe
Todd Shelton feels
otherwise !!!
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=2a3a4a9f9ead65865814ce9e02accf4c&threadid=60593
Jim Berry
==============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Now Catch Can, was
HELP! Massive oil AT y-pipe
> I've studied the info about krank vent
and think it is BS too. The PCV is
> only there for emmissions, to suck
vapours out of the crankcase under
> partial throttle. Under boost the
valve closes to stop the pressure in the
> intake manifold going into the
crankcase, the blowby pressure goes straight
> out of the other hose to
atmospheric pressure near the MAS. How could
> fitting a Krank vent
possibly reduce crankcase pressure? If the PCV is
> leaking then either
replace it or clean it.
>
> Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:51:57
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Krankvent
Did any of the people who installed this or any similar
item on their
car get a leakdown/compression test first, did they have the
rings
inspected, etc? If not then they did not know what the real
problem was
(if it was those other things). I agree in solving the
problem instead
of covering it up.
Smoke coming out of turbos is
definitely wrong. Find out why the oil is
getting TO the turbo in the
first place (maybe the oil jacket was
cracked or oil was getting sucked into
the air intake) but that is
problem number one in my mind.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill
vp
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 09:35
I think that many people were
just trying it to see if it would cure
their smoking problems (rings, bad
turbos, valve stems, etc. ....
anything that caused their car to smoke)
instead of what it could
actually help: blowby. That's why it did nothing for
most people.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 13:39:52
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: EGR block-off w/o check-engine light
At 03:10 7/4/2002, Jeff
wrote:
>What year car do you have? My EGR has been blocked off for 3
years and it's
>never set a CEL. Blocked off at the tube (tube
removed.) 1995 california
>emissions, non-OBDII
I have a 1995
R/T TT, Federal emissions. I removed the tube yesterday and
blocked off both
orifices. I left the EGR valve in place for now in case I
get a CEL and
change my mind.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:50:02
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Track Overheating
> One person makes a statement that all our
cars overheat at
> high boost on the track then many others try to
explain
> why. Well mine never gets over half
> way on the gauge.
Maybe your radiator needs a flush?
On a 95F day in Sunny (that day)
Washington state, my black (didn't help
with heat) 1995 VR-4 would start
climbing on the temp gauge after about 5
hot laps (1.2mi with 2 low speed
sections in 2nd gear, including a hairpin
where you're down to 20mph)
An easy lap after that would bring it right
back down. I only
encountered this a couple times that day, because my
brakes were almost
always the limiting factor as to how many hot laps I
could do in a row. They
usually limited me to 3-4 hot laps in a row.
Here's the kicker... I was
only running 0.7kgsc(10psi). That's lower than
stock boost, too.
Further, the car only had 33,000 miles on it and was in
immaculate
condition. Stock cooling system without water wetter, though...
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 14:13:07
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
A>On a 95F day in Sunny (that day)
Washington state, my black (didn't help
>with heat) 1995 VR-4 would start
climbing on the temp gauge after about 5
>hot laps (1.2mi with 2 low speed
sections in 2nd gear, including a hairpin
>where you're down to
20mph) An easy lap after that would bring it right
>back down.
I had this same exact problem when I started open tracking, but my
problem was that I used 2nd gear more than I should, because I slowed too much
for turns. Even with stock boost it would only take 5 laps, and the temp gage
would go up. Now, I can run all day on stock boost, because I run in 3rd and 4th
most of the time, and avoid using 2nd gear like the plague.
So I am NOT
crazy. Well, I might be crazy, but I am not the only one suffering overheating
problems when using lots of boost.
> I only encountered this a couple
times that day, because my
>brakes were almost always the limiting factor
as to how many hot laps I
>could do in a row.
Well, we CAN fix
your brake problem.
Thanks, Erik.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:04:01
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Krankvent users
Todd Shelton needs to come on here and talk about
his experience
with it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
[mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 7:35 AM
To:
StealthCT@aol.comCc:
team3/S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Krankvent
I think that many people were
just trying it to see if it would cure their
smoking problems (rings, bad
turbos, valve stems, etc. .... anything that
caused their car to smoke)
instead of what it could actually help: blowby.
That's why it did nothing for
most people.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
StealthCT@aol.comSent: Thursday, July
04, 2002 9:13 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Krankvent
I am considering installing the "Krankvent" on my
car. I know initially
everyone was excited about this device, however
it then appeared as though
it
did little or nothing in resolving any of
our issues. I would appreciate
any
imput any of you may have on this
device. Regards Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 16:19:48
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Filling the radiator
I had a terrible time refilling the radiator
and cooling system after I cooked it at the track. I filled the radiator with
water directly, and then filled the overflow tank four times before the system
was satisfied. I took water cans with me, and was 100 miles down the road before
it finally was satisfied and didn't ask for more water.
I heard lots of
horror stories from other track jocks about cooling systems they've known ("Ya
know, with Nissans, ya gotta jack the car way up in the front to get all the
water in," and "make sure you get all the air bubbles out," and "where's the
high side vent on this car? You gotta be sure it's vented, or you won't get all
the water in.")
Makes me wonder: Maybe the overheating problem is
something really simple. Maybe it just didn't have enough water in it. Maybe it
had air bubbles or something. Running lots of boost on a cooling system that
isn't perfect might be enough to set it off.
Is there is some trick or
procedure to getting our cooling system filled properly?
I know I am
reaching, but some people have cooling problems and some don't. There has to be
an explanation. Sorry to keep beating this to death, but I don't have a
definitive answer yet.
Rich/slow old poop/apparent
bandwaster
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:13:21
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Track Overheating
Rich,
I went to one track event last
year and never saw the temps deviate from
normal driving on the street.
I have no extra cooling mods, ran very hard,
on my original 2nd gen
engine. The only thing I have that you don't is
water/alky injection
and I was running 17psi on stock turbos all day. Maybe
that's your
answer, although I don't think cooling the intake charge 20
degrees give or
take a few degrees will make that much of a difference in
your case
though.
Good luck
Francis
'96 RT/TT
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:27
AM
To: Steve Cooper;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Track Overheating
>> If there are 2nd gen cars out
there running 15 psi on a road course
without overheating, I'd like to know
how they do it. Aluminum radiators?
Bigger turbos? Maybe you just don't run
as hard as I do. Maybe you have a
1st gen engine. You say yours never gets
over half way on the >>gauge. OK,
what do you have on your 2nd gen car
that's different than mine?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 17:09:54
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Filling the radiator
Water?
Never use just water,
you'll end up with a rusted headgasket. I always use
proper coolant and when
I need to top up I use antifreeze. My car is a 93,
2nd gen engine, like I
said before I've never had an overheating problem but
when the cambelt was
changed I got the radiator rebuilt with a new core.
Steve
I filled
the radiator with water directly, and then filled the overflow tank
four
times before the system was satisfied. I took water cans with
me
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:15:48
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Filling the radiator
Steve,
That is assuming the head
gasket is metal. Aren't there some out there
that are made of fiber or
some fiber weave with gaskets found in the
valve cover or some other material
than metal sometimes? Just asking.
I've never heard of problems from
people who run straight water and a
bottle of water wetter (for hot, summer
events) but sometimes these
people have straight track cars that never see
antifreeze again.
Running straight antifreeze or 50/50 antifreeze/water
is still no good
when you don't need the cold protection of antifreeze but
need to go up
higher and higher where antifreeze is no longer
useful.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve
Cooper
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 01:10
Water?
Never use just
water, you'll end up with a rusted headgasket. I always
use proper coolant
and when I need to top up I use antifreeze. My car is
a 93, 2nd gen engine,
like I said before I've never had an overheating
problem but when the cambelt
was changed I got the radiator rebuilt with
a new core.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:40:40
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Filling the radiator
Thanks, Steve.
As to the water, I
didn't have much choice, being trackside. Water was all I had.
I see that you
have a 1st gen, which don't seem to have cooling
problems.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#889
***************************************