Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, June 26
2002 Volume 01 : Number
881
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:52:46 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
Geoff,
I
wasn't replying to your comment about the the e-brake and gear: I
was
still hammering on Flash!
1st thing I said was adjust it or clean
the dust from the drums.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:56
AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
'dschilberg@pobox.com';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
>
>
Charles..my point was not to trust the Ebrake without knowing its in
>
prooper adjustment..thats all.
>
> On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Willis,
Charles E. wrote:
>
> > If you dispute the ability of the
parking brake to hold the car on an
> > incline, when it is designed to
PREVENT the rear wheels from turning,
> why
> > would you expect
the drive train, which is designed specifically to TURN
> the
> >
wheels, to be able to PREVENT movement on an incline?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:00:25
-0600
From: norman ross <
normanross@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S:
street raceing
Dose any one know the best way to launch a Auto
because i get my but beet
all the time my car is a 91 stealth R/T
is thare any think that can help me
out . Or i was thing of
geting a Venom 400 does any one know if that will
help with my take off
or not.
I all so hear off a thing called exhaust cutout that attaches
just before
the catalyic convter and when you pull the cable thare is vale
that closes
and lets the exhaust out the side in stared go all the throu the
exhaust .
But this rick your veles rigth.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:14:50
-0700 (PDT)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof Bob Forrest
Bob forrest
While I can't be sure mt sun roof wasn't
done after the car was bought
because I bought it used
with 6000 miles on it. I do know it isn't a local
sun
roof shop as my sun roof looks like it came from the
factory and so
does my overhead layout. My sun
roof is also a
mitsubishi model made for the car. I
don't know all the codes but I do know
when it leaked
several years ago I took it to the Dodge dealer, who
fixed
it under the warrenty at no cost to me. They had
to install a new seal from
Mitibushi and had the part
sent up from Portland Oregon. One more thing is
my
trunk has a lot different layout then regular TT
trunks. It has a place
forward and under the rear lid
cover that has a place to slide the roof into
and at
the rear of the trunk it has a factory ledge that it
sits on that
other TT don't have. Like I said my best
guess is it cam from the factory
that way. I do
remember the dealer telling me that I had a very rare
TT
Stealth because of the factory sun roof. Maybe he
lied to me, I don't trust
anything a dealer says. All
the signs though point to the fact with the
modified
head liner, the sun roof coming from the same factory
that made
the car and also the trunk having a seperate
and different config. then other
TT's.
What say you!
Peter 92 Stealth TT with a rare factory Sun Roof,
13 G
turbos and other performance up grades. A city steet
Car not prone to
racing except light to light, but
will flat haul Ass in the sixteenth of a
mile.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:23:16
-0700
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
street raceing
"Dose any one know the best way to launch a
Auto"?
Typing lessons!!! They'll guarantee that you beat every
civic and
integra out there :-> J/K.
In all reality, you
have to learn how to power brake. Basically,
holding down the brake
and the gas at the same time. Ordinarily, with
your left foot on the
brake, you rev (right foot) the engine to about
2500 RPM. When you
release your left foot, maintain the same gas
pressure until the car hooks
up, then floor it. you'll keep the revs as
high as possible that way
all the way through the RPM range.
This is just my experience with a high
torque auto (grand prix GTP-
280lbs-ft of torque). The stall RPM on
the GP is roughly 2500RPM and
that's where I get the best launches (G-Tech
0-60: 6.2sec stock).
Hope that helps. Anyone else have any other
ideas?
Damon
norman ross wrote:
> Dose any one know the
best way to launch a Auto because i get my but beet
>
all the time my car is a 91 stealth R/T is thare any think that can help
me
> out . Or i was thing of geting a Venom 400 does any one
know if that will
> help with my take off or not.
> I all so
hear off a thing called exhaust cutout that attaches just before
>
the catalyic convter and when you pull the cable thare is vale that
closes
> and lets the exhaust out the side in stared go all the throu the
exhaust .
> But this rick your veles rigth.
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:34:35
EDT
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: street raceing
Launching an auto isnt very difficult-there are 2
ways i like to do it on my
SL. The first is to put it into low gear. PRND2L
on the tranny. . you want
the L. . and switch off your overdrive, also make
sure the tranny is in POWER
mode. When your set to go simple mash the pedal
to the floor-your tires will
spin quite a bit, especially with bigger ones,
but once they grab your good
to go-just make sure to shift through the
gears-move it to 2, then into D,
then take the overdrive on if you get that
fast. When shifting from L, wait
until the rev limiter reaches 7250 RPM. The
car will kick for sure!
The other way is to simply rev the motor to bout
4500 RPM, the torque peak on
our cars, then neutral drop the tranny. I have
personally never tried this
because i want my tranny to last- but it should
work a bit better then
shifting through the gears for a launch.
Brake torquing also works well-but i find that my tires spin to much and
i
lose valuable time. (Mitsu could have at least put a limited slip dif on
our c
ars!) Unless i REALLY HATE the man in the V-6 Crustang, i wont beat on
my
car. So i usually just launch it from low gear, which is the least wear
out
of the three ways to do it.
*Also, always be sure that when
u race the tranny is in POWER mode. . when
its in ECONOMY, the tranny will
shift at 5700 RPM. . .short of the 6000 RPM
power peak. In POWER, it allows
you to go to redline and will downshift 2
gears instead of one when you
floor it. I say this cuz until recently i left
the tranny in POWER-not
realizing the difference between the 2 modes.
- -mike
97 SL
K&N
FIPK
DN Intake Pipe
Infinity Kappa 3 1/2, 6 1/2
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:55:26
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Knock
vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)
At 19:17
6/25/2002,
mjannusch@attbi.com
wrote:
>If I get knock I do see that the ECU pulls timing
>fairly
quickly. I have no idea how to correlate
>the "knock sum" to timing
retard though since my car
>won't produce knock sum numbers.
This
is still an invaluable information. Almost any ignition timing
pullback
costs some horsepower, so it is better to avoid it.
By how much does it
pull usually it back? I saw a Jeff L.'s log and the
timing was pulled back
by only 2 degrees with a knock sum of 9. Does it
ever pull it back by say 10
degrees?
>I think you probably want to look at a combination
of
>timing advance, O2 sensor readings, and EGTs to get an
>overall
idea of engine health. Most cars do not have
>access to knock data
like the 1st gen cars do, and this
>is how they tune their cars.
I
have all that. And I am moving on to figuring out what's left -
knock!
>I've also seen that some people are hooking up
their
>knock sensor to one of the extra inputs on the S-AFC
>and
have kinda sorta decided that voltages above .08v
>represent
knocking.
>....but it seems
>people are getting more and more
serious about figuring
>this out - which is good.
Are they the
3Si.org people? Any links?
>If that idea proves out, then I will be
incorporating a
>simulated "knock sum" on my digital gauge
project.
Send us some updates when you make
progress.
Philip
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:13:44
-0400
From: "Robert Booker" <
nsubooker@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: street raceing
Power braking is the way to go, but you do
build up tremendous amounts of
heat inside the transmission that way, if you
do launch that way, make sure
you drive around for a bit to give everythig a
chance to cool off. I have
baked 2 auto trannies, and they aren't cheap to
replace.
Matt
3/Si #311
'93 R/T
'00 Intrepid
> In all
reality, you have to learn how to power brake. Basically,
> holding
down the brake and the gas at the same time. Ordinarily, with
> your
left foot on the brake, you rev (right foot) the engine to about
> 2500
RPM. When you release your left foot, maintain the same gas
>
pressure until the car hooks up, then floor it. you'll keep the revs
as
> high as possible that way all the way through the RPM
range.
>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:42:56
+0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re: Knock
vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)
> This is
still an invaluable information. Almost any
> ignition timing pullback
costs some horsepower, so
> it is better to avoid it.
> By how
much does it pull usually it back? I saw a
> Jeff L.'s log and the timing
was pulled back by only
> 2 degrees with a knock sum of 9. Does it ever
pull
> it back by say 10 degrees?
I did see it drop 10 degrees once
for one sample, but I
think that was sampling error or something flaky like
that. I'd say more like wavering 2-3 degrees of
change. I
don't think I've really gotten serious knock
though. Occasionally I do
see the stock ECU set a
longer pulsewidth for maybe a tenth of a second,
which
I assume is also it seeing some knock.
> Are they the
3Si.org people? Any links?
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86501-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:35:09
-0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Help......Engine Hesitating
You lost a vacuum line. And perhaps you lost
the nipple on the y-pipe side
too. Your engine is now sucking in some
unfiltered air, and your ECU learned
to accomodate which explains why your
idle speed is off.
Get the new parts, disconnect your battery for like 5
minutes, reconnect it,
and see if the idle fixes itself. If not, use the idle
adjustment screw.
Best of luck,
Riyan
1993 stealth rt/tt
my
ride:
www.advantedgecomputing.com/stllow/stealth.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:58:18
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging
are the lights flashing together?
or just on continuously.
still, I would try to read the trouble codes,
with a voltmeter.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Andre Cerri [SMTP:cerri@intersystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25,
2002 2:59 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging
>
> r.e the ECS
issue. Depressing ro releasing the ECS button has done nothing
> for a
couple of weeks, but today I noticed both Tour and Sport lights were
> on
sumultaneously......
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
Thx
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:56:27
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
Best way to detect
a slipping clutch is to get on the highway, put it in 6th
gear about 50 mph
and try to accellerate. If the clutch is slipping, you
will get rpm spikes on
the tach.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 2:55 PM
>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
>
>
Thanks, Chuck. You are only the second person to respond that if
the
> car is creeping (i.e. the engine is turning) then the clutch
is
> slipping.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:37:53
-0600
From: norman ross <
normanross@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S:
Street raceing
Will i trid it . At did not mack anything diffent . One
guy was saying that
his tires spen a lot and he is driveing aSL. My tiaes
never spen y is that
what should i start look at . Last year i had my moter
done this year i did
the Tranny. All so when i riv upto 2500 RPM my
peedeal is all most on the
floor is that rigth or is something wrong
help i have all was thot that
some thing is wrong because this car does not
seem fast as it should Thank
norm
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:07:20
-0400
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
I have seen this
statement repeatedly stated, and yet that has never been
the case with a
slipping clutch on any of my cars. When I have a slipping
clutch, it is
in high hp/torque or launch situations. 50 mph in 6th does
not have
enough power to cause the clutch to slip. Why does this
method
work? (if it does?)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Willis, Charles E.
Sent:
Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:56 PM
To:
'dschilberg@pobox.com';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
Best way to
detect a slipping clutch is to get on the highway, put it in 6th
gear about
50 mph and try to accellerate. If the clutch is slipping, you
will get rpm
spikes on the tach.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 2:55
PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
>
>
Thanks, Chuck. You are only the second person to respond that if
the
> car is creeping (i.e. the engine is turning) then the clutch
is
> slipping.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:16:23
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Slipping clutch test (was: Car creeping...)
> Best way to detect a
slipping clutch is to get on the highway, put it in
6th gear about 50 mph and
try to accelerate. If the clutch is slipping, you
will get rpm spikes on the
tach.
- --------------------------------->
In a high-HP car, that
may well toast your clutch the rest of the way, if it
*is* slipping. A
safer way is to park somewhere away from other cars, with
a couple of car
lengths in front of you. With your foot firmly on the
brake, and the
car idling, put the car in second and let out the clutch. If
the car
stalls, your clutch is fine.
Just in case it's not obvious...:
***Do
NOT do this with any clutch with substantially greater clamping force
than
stock - like those 2600# 6-puck jobs made for drag racing. This test
is
only for standard clutches!
Best,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:43:44
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Stealth Factory Sunroof? Was: How to install an Original...
That
*does* sound like a pretty unique TT! I'd be curious to know where
the
car was originally sold and the trace it's previous records through the
VIN.
I just checked out the manual on CD for 92-94 Stealth for you, and
there
were no references to any kind of manual or power roof. No
harnesses,
fuses, etc. Your car may be more than "rare"... It may
be a one of a kind,
a Chrysler show car for commercials, even an "Indy"
Stealth that's been
repainted, or an hybrid... I'd get a hold of the
previous owner - that car
might have some really cool
history!
Best,
Forrest
-
------------------------------>
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"menalteed" <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
> While I
can't be sure my sun roof wasn't
> done after the car was bought because I
bought it used
> with 6000 miles on it. I do know it isn't a local
sun
> roof shop as my sun roof looks like it came from the
> factory
and so does my overhead layout. My sun
> roof is
also a mitsubishi model made for the car. I
> don't know all the codes but
I do know when it leaked
> several years ago I took it to the Dodge
dealer, who
> fixed it under the warrenty at no cost to me. They
had
> to install a new seal from Mitibushi and had the part
> sent
up from Portland Oregon. One more thing is my
> trunk has a lot different
layout then regular TT
> trunks. It has a place forward and under the rear
lid
> cover that has a place to slide the roof into and at
> the
rear of the trunk it has a factory ledge that it
> sits on that other TT
don't have. Like I said my best
> guess is it came from the factory that
way. I do
> remember the dealer telling me that I had a very rare
>
TT Stealth because of the factory sun roof. Maybe he
> lied to me, I don't
trust anything a dealer says. All
> the signs though point to the fact
with the modified
> head liner, the sun roof coming from the same
factory
> that made the car and also the trunk having a seperate
>
and different config. then other TT's.
> What say you!
>
>
Peter 92 Stealth TT with a rare factory Sun Roof, 13 G
> turbos and other
performance up grades. A city steet
> Car not prone to racing except light
to light, but
> will flat haul Ass in the sixteenth of a mile.
-
--------------------------->
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:38:02
EDT
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Street raceing
Norm-
The advice I and the other members
gave you are the only ways to do it. .
.remember that a stick is really
better for launching. Also what are u racing
against? If your going
against a V-8 camaro or Supra Turbo-its gonna look
like your standing
still. If you have ever run the 1/4 mile with your car,
and your
hitting 15-16 seconds, then its normal
As for your tires not spinning. .
.they should be. I think every1 with a DOHC
N/A will agree that the tires
slip alot when full throttle, especially when
launching.
ANy1 else have
any ideas?
- -mike
97 SL
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:42:34
-0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Factory Sunroof? Was: How to install an
Original...
I am not sure if many of the 1st gen Stealths had glass
sunroofs, but the
majority of the 2nd gen Stealths ('94 - '96) that I saw had
them.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
-
---------------------------------------------
That *does* sound like a
pretty unique TT! I'd be curious to know where
the
car was
originally sold and the trace it's previous records through the
VIN.
I
just checked out the manual on CD for 92-94 Stealth for you, and there
were
no references to any kind of manual or power roof. No harnesses,
fuses,
etc. Your car may be more than "rare"... It may be a one of
a
kind,
a Chrysler show car for commercials, even an "Indy" Stealth that's
been
repainted, or an hybrid... I'd get a hold of the previous owner -
that
car
might have some really cool history!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:00:02
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing
The STIM states that our 6G72 engine's
electronic control is based on that
used by the 4G63 (DSM) engine.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-stim.htmUsing
the Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual as a reference, the ECM will reduce
timing,
up to a maximum of 12 crank degrees (see Vinny's Manuals on CD, p. 8-
31),
when it determines that detonation is occuring. When detonation ceases to
be
detected, timing is advanced to the optimum angle for the engine operating
conditions. If the ECM detects a faulty detonation sensor, it will retard
timing by 3 degrees.
So at what knock count does timing retard start,
how many degrees of advance
are removed for every knock count detected, and
how fast is timing restored
once knock stops? I am not sure anyone knows
exactly or if the value is even
constant (or repeatable) over various engine
operating conditions. Many of our
first gen cars show timing retard after
the knock count reaches the range of 7
to 10 (the exact value seem to vary
depending on the individual car and the
operating conditions). I have
recorded knock counts in the mid 20s (CAS set
incorrectly). The TMO software
allows up to 43 knock counts to be displayed.
There has been
considerable discussion of this topic in the TMO email list. A
person could
search those archives for more discussion.
http://www.tmo.com/tmo-dlog/Jeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <
mjannusch@attbi.com>; <
team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June
25, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II
and Knock '94+)
At 19:17 6/25/2002,
mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>If I get
knock I do see that the ECU pulls timing
>fairly quickly. I have no
idea how to correlate
>the "knock sum" to timing retard though since my
car
>won't produce knock sum numbers.
This is still an invaluable
information. Almost any ignition timing
pullback costs some horsepower, so
it is better to avoid it.
By how much does it pull usually it back? I saw
a Jeff L.'s log and the
timing was pulled back by only 2 degrees with a
knock sum of 9. Does it
ever pull it back by say 10
degrees?
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:48:04
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: checking for a spark
Quick one for you all...
How do I
check if an engine (not necessarily ours) is getting a spark? I
thought about
just pulling a plug and laying it down so that the outer
metal portion is
touching the engine block and trying to start it, or
something along those
lines...
Is that safe?
Thanks,
Alex.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:54:53
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: Looking for a TMO
Does anyone in the Chicago-land area have a
TMO logger I could try out?
If so, please e-mail me off
list...
Thanks,
Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:12:27
-0700 (PDT)
From: glenn amy <
glenn_amy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: checking for a spark
This takes two people.
Have your
friend hold the spark plug in one hand, then
he puts his other hand on the
engine block. You turn
the key. If friend yells F#%*!! and drops
the plug,
you got spark!
Ok maybe not a good idea, My dad pulled this
one on me
when I was 8 and the lawnmower would not
start.
Glenn
Older and wiser now.
- --- Alex Pedenko <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Quick one for you all...
>
> How do I check if an
engine (not necessarily ours)
> is getting a spark? I
> thought
about just pulling a plug and laying it down
> so that the outer
>
metal portion is touching the engine block and
> trying to start it,
or
> something along those lines...
>
> Is that safe?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:23:06
+0000
From: "Tom Bromm" <
tbromm68@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Idle stepper motor replacement?
Hi folks,
I've got a '92
Steath R/T N/A that doesn't idle. 80% of the time when
coming to a
stop it will just die.
A local Mitzu dealer determined I have a bad Idle
Speed Control Servo but I
couldn't afford to replace it. I now have
the $ but I'm thinking of
replacing it myself (looks like just 2
screws!). I've been told by the San
Rafael, CA Mitzu dealer that
there's some sort of "resetting" that needs to
be done with the
computer.
Is this true or are they just trying to squeeze $ out of
me? If it's not
true, is there any special tool needed to disconnect
the stepper motor from
whatever is inside the plenum or is it really just 2
screws?
Any help is appreciated.
Tom Bromm
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:33:45
-0700
From: "Chris Winkley" <
Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: checking for a spark
Alex...
Your proposed spark check
is one used for many years. Two suggestions:
1. Perform this test in a
dark environment (garage with the lights off).
The spark can be difficult to
see in bright light.
2. Wear heavy rubber gloves and ensure you're
holding the plug boot, not
the plug itself if you don't have someone else to
crank the engine while
you hold the plug near the block. The discharge may be
relatively low
amperage but is very high voltage and will still kick you on
your
@#%^!!!
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Alex Pedenko [mailto:apedenko@earthlink.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, June 26, 2002 8:48 AM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: Team3S: checking
for a spark
Quick one for you all...
How do I check if an engine
(not necessarily ours) is getting a spark? I
thought about just pulling a
plug and laying it down so that the outer
metal portion is touching the
engine block and trying to start it, or
something along those
lines...
Is that safe?
Thanks,
Alex.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:47:12
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Stealth Factory Sunroof? (&ProLock)
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
>
I am not sure if many of the 1st gen Stealths had glass sunroofs, but
the
majority of the 2nd gen Stealths ('94 - '96) that I saw had them.
-
---------------------------->
This isn't in question. When I was
shopping for my Stealth in '94, ALL the
other Stealths on the lot (except
mine) had sunroofs. Every one had been
done by the neighborhood sunroof
specialist, under contract, for the dealer.
This is not speculation - it is
fact. I spent a lot of time talking to the
dealer about the "in's and
out's" of what dealers do... We became such good
friends, he sold his
part of the partnership and came to work for me.
That dealership had a
ritual when the cars came in from the factory - the
truck never came directly
to the showroom. They were dropped of at the
detailer for cleanup,
vacuum, wax job and to be checked for several dozen
little things like bugs
in the wiper vents and rags in the engine bay...
Then to the electronics guy
for fuse and stereo checkout and/or phone and
specialty alarm installation,
if they got the "customer preferred" or luxury
package. Then to the
sunroof guy, if ordered. Then back to the detailer
for a final
wipe-down, where the cars were stored until they needed them at
the
showroom.
I got lots of great little hints from him through the years,
including the
fact that the spec on any car was not always what came with the
car! (It
was usually more..., not less... than you ordered)! Fog
lights were not
even offered as a preferred- or luxury package option, but my
car came with
them(!), and I also had a mysterious adjustable "kit"
preinstalled on the
front suspension that the dealer had never heard of, and
couldn't find
anywhere in his records... And I bought my Stealth
new!
One of the coolest tips he gave me just might help someone out there
with
the same '94 Stealth as mine, (or maybe others?). The dataport
(rect. slot
at the bottom of the dash - just to the right of the steering
wheel) was
used for the "ProLock" system on some cars. If you got this
~$600 add-on,
you got a "key" (a ~1"-wide, 6-contact plug-in circuit board
with a
rubberized key handle) which acted as a coded "defeat" or "dead
switch".
You needed the specific Prolock key for *your* car (hundreds of
circuit
combinations) inserted, in addition to the ignition key, in order to
start
the car. Once the car started, you could put the key in your
pocket. But
when the car was turned off, you couldn't start it again
without that
Prolock key. This was to foil thieves (especially
carjackers) who would
have to leave the car wherever they turned it off (or
they stalled it),
since it wouldn't start again without the Prolock
inserted.
What the dealer revealed was that ALL 94 (CA spec) Stealths
came *with* the
Prolock system, whether you paid for it or not! If you
bought the package,
you got the "key", but if you didn't buy it, the contact
bar from the "key"
was permanently inserted (with no handle so you couldn't
remove it).
Removing it with a pair of tweezers and epoxy-ing a handle on it
gave you a
removable Prolock theft protection. :-) Pretty
neat... Some of you may
have an extra anti-theft system and not even
know it!
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:57:06
-0700
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: checking for a spark
Hey Glenn - How many friends do you have
left?
A better way to check for spark is with an inductive coil timing
light. One
lead from the light goes to the positive battery terminal. The
other goes to
ground. The inductive pickup is clamped onto the wire you want
to test.
Testing for spark the old fashioned way can damage your
ignition computer.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "glenn
amy" <
glenn_amy@yahoo.com>
To:
"'Team3S'" <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
June 26, 2002 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: checking for a spark
|
This takes two people.
|
| Have your friend hold the spark plug in one
hand, then
| he puts his other hand on the engine block. You turn
|
the key. If friend yells F#%*!! and drops the plug,
| you got
spark!
|
| Ok maybe not a good idea, My dad pulled this one on me
|
when I was 8 and the lawnmower would not start.
|
| Glenn
| Older and
wiser now.
|
| --- Alex Pedenko <
apedenko@earthlink.net> wrote:
|
> Quick one for you all...
| >
| > How do I check if an engine
(not necessarily ours)
| > is getting a spark? I
| > thought about
just pulling a plug and laying it down
| > so that the outer
| >
metal portion is touching the engine block and
| > trying to start it,
or
| > something along those lines...
| >
| > Is that
safe?
| >
| > Thanks,
| >
| > Alex.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:31:20
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: checking for a spark
>> Testing for spark the old
fashioned way can damage your ignition computer.
I wonder how this myth
ever got started?
Sparking the plug in the cylinder or on the block
exterior will make no
difference at all to the ECM. How could it possibly?
When a spark occurs the
electrical circuit is:
- - coil output 1 to
-
- plug 1 center electrode to
- - plug 1 ground electrode to
- - engine
block to
- - plug 2 ground electrode to
- - plug 2 center electrode to
- - coil output 2
- --- a big loop that connects the two coil outputs
terminals (or both leads of
the HT windings).
Nothing changes when
the plug is out of the cylinder except 1) no combustion
and 2) the required
spark voltage changes (it is lower in the low density
fresh air, that is,
easier to spark).
Also, the test described by the Mitsu service manual
(Electrical Volume -
Engine - Ignition System) is .... you guessed it
...
(1) Remove the spark plug and connect to the spark plug cable.
(2)
Ground the spark plug outer electrode (body), and crank the engine.
Spark
plug tech:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:58:54
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Midamerica on Tuesday
We are planning to go to MidAmerica
Motorplex (
www.midamericamotorplex.com) near
Omaha on Tuesday, July 2.
I just called Aaron at the track and
re-confirmed. Told him we were up to nine cars and counting. He sounded pleased,
and he reconfirmed the cost.
For those who have confirmed attendance:
Please show up. Gathering you guys up is like herding cats, so don't let me
down. If we show up with four cars, Aaron will not be pleased and we might never
pull this off again. Conversely, if we show up with 20+ cars, we may be able to
do this all summer.
It's still $50 for all day, starting at 2:00 pm and
running until dark. All the laps you can stand. Race until you puke. No run
groups. We probably will be the only cars there, so we'll have the whole place
to ourselves. We can even pit in the pits!
We'll be caravaning over from
Cedar Rapids Tuesday morning, so if you'd like to join up anywhere along the
route, please advise. We'll meet at 8:00 am at Hawkeye Downs in Cedar Rapids and
probably arrive at 1-2 or so, with lunch in Council Bluffs or somewhere en
route. All the survivors will caravan back behind Brian's transporter, and we
should be back in CR by midnight or so.
So far, we have two Z06s, two 600
hp Camaros, a Porsche 944S turbo, a Porsche TT AWD, a black Ferrari of some
kind, a BMW M3, one 3000GT VR4 (me) and maybe one of the new Lambos (see the
last AutoWeek). One is a Busch Truck driver (Art Cristopherson) who will be
bringing his new Z06. (The way it looks, I'll be the slowest car in the
group.)
Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:12:21
EDT
From:
Czarcd@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: How to find a vacuum leak
O.k....I found my vacuum leak from a
couple of days ago, it turned out that
my idle control screw somehow
fell out (weird). Has this ever happened to
anybody before?
Anyway,
I fixed that problem.
Now I have a new one. Last
night, I did my Plugs and Wires. I hate
doing
that. After I put everything back together, I can hear a
vaccum
leak. I tried looking for it but couldnt find
it. It sounds like it is
coming from the general area of the
throttle body. I checked the hoses but
couldn't find anything.
Maybe the throttle body gasket? Where is the tab
supposed be.
How do I find a vacuum leak that is not obvious? I hope I dont
have to
take this apart again. Please help.
Thanx in advance and thanx for
the responses last time.
Carlo
Black
91 Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:15:49
-0400
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Motor mounts
I know someone said recently they were thinking of
ordering new motor mounts
from 3SX performance and was wondering if anyone
currently has these
installed? Their website says you will notice more
vibration etc. at idle
but car should be ok driving, is this true? Also they
are $269.00 for a set
of 4 (includes the one for the tranny) w/ a $250.00
core charge until they
get yours. Is this price good/bad I cant find anyone
else who sells upgraded
mounts. Also anyone know what it cost to replace w/
stock mounts and about
how long they last w/ 425+ HP and a few trips to the
drag strip?
Thanks,
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:27:53
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Motor mounts
Tom AFAIK, 3SX is the only one who makes these
mounts.... They will
transmit more engine/driveline vibrations through
the car into the passenger
compartment how I am not sure I have not yet
started my car......... I
will tell you this my stock
mounts were tired after 25 passes at the track,
dead after 40, and worthless
after 50. Anything that can last longer than 1
season is a deal in my
book.
BTW I launched at 6K ran 15-16 psi on race gas on the stockers and
was not
very gentle when racing.
Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 Still under
the Knife.......
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom
Terflinger [SMTP:terflit@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002
3:16 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Motor mounts
>
> I know someone said recently they
were thinking of ordering new motor
> mounts
> from 3SX performance
and was wondering if anyone currently has these
> installed? Their
website says you will notice more vibration etc. at idle
> but car should
be ok driving, is this true? Also they are $269.00 for a
> set
> of
4 (includes the one for the tranny) w/ a $250.00 core charge until they
>
> get yours. Is this price good/bad I cant find anyone else who
sells
> upgraded
> mounts. Also anyone know what it cost to replace
w/ stock mounts and about
>
> how long they last w/ 425+ HP and a
few trips to the drag strip?
>
> Thanks,
>
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:31:11
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Motor mounts
I have 3 of the 4 installed, the rear one by the firewall
looks impossible to get
to with the engine in place although I think someone
changed it with the engine
in. At idle it feels rough, kind of like a
motorcycle but as soon as you bring up
the revs it smooths out fairly well.
It's a step into the racecar feel --- if you
just want a smooth grand
touring car go with the stock
mounts.
Jim
Berry
===================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: Motor
mounts
> I know someone said recently they were thinking of
ordering new motor mounts
> from 3SX performance and was wondering if
anyone currently has these
> installed? Their website says you will
notice more vibration etc. at idle
> but car should be ok driving, is
this true? Also they are $269.00 for a set
> of 4 (includes the one for
the tranny) w/ a $250.00 core charge until they
> get yours. Is this
price good/bad I cant find anyone else who sells upgraded
> mounts. Also
anyone know what it cost to replace w/ stock mounts and about
> how long
they last w/ 425+ HP and a few trips to the drag strip?
>
>
Thanks,
> TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:37:07
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
How to find a vacuum leak
A car of carb cleaner can be used to
"carefully" spray around a suspected leak,
the engine will stumble or
rev a little higher as the additional fuel is added to the
intake.
Don't get carried away and cover the engine with spray --- it's
very
flammable, do a small area and let it dry. It'll dry in seconds and you
can also
keep a hose handy in case of a small fire.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
Czarcd@aol.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
June 26, 2002 12:12 PM
Subject: Team3S: How to find a vacuum leak
>
O.k....I found my vacuum leak from a couple of days ago, it turned out that
> my idle control screw somehow fell out (weird). Has this
ever happened to
> anybody before?
> Anyway, I fixed that
problem.
>
> Now I have a new one. Last
night, I did my Plugs and Wires. I hate
> doing
that. After I put everything back together, I can hear a
vaccum
> leak. I tried looking for it but couldnt
find it. It sounds like it is
> coming from the general area
of the throttle body. I checked the hoses but
> couldn't find
anything. Maybe the throttle body gasket? Where is the tab
>
supposed be. How do I find a vacuum leak that is not obvious? I hope
I dont
> have to take this apart again. Please help.
>
> Thanx in advance and thanx for the responses last time.
>
> Carlo
> Black
> 91 Stealth RT TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:11:28
-0700
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
checking for a spark
we did this last weekend, and all i've got to say
is, man, was that
funny. My buddie's whole left side went numb for a
while. of course
he's fine, but the look on his face, and the gutteral
screech was all
too funny.
Kids, don't do this at
home.
glenn amy wrote:
> This takes two people.
>
> Have your friend hold the spark plug in one hand, then
> he puts
his other hand on the engine block. You turn
> the key. If
friend yells F#%*!! and drops the plug,
> you got spark!
>
>
Ok maybe not a good idea, My dad pulled this one on me
> when I was 8 and
the lawnmower would not start.
>
> Glenn
> Older and wiser
now.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:12:51
-0700
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
checking for a spark
You can pull off one of the ignition wires with an
insulated pliers and
touch it to the coils. They should ground out,
making lotsa sparks.
This shouldn't damage the coils or wires. Not
enough amperage.
That's the way I know. anyone
else?
Damon
glenn amy wrote:
> This takes two
people.
>
> Have your friend hold the spark plug in one hand,
then
> he puts his other hand on the engine block. You turn
>
the key. If friend yells F#%*!! and drops the plug,
> you got
spark!
>
> Ok maybe not a good idea, My dad pulled this one on
me
> when I was 8 and the lawnmower would not start.
>
>
Glenn
> Older and wiser now.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:05:15
-0700
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: checking for a spark
I agree with you completely Jeff but who can
count the number of experts who
say not to do this. These include popular
mechanics magazine - usually a
pretty reliable source.
Anyhow, I am
glad Mitsu agrees. It makes life a little easier - especially
since my
induction light died years ago.
Andy
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, June 26, 2002 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: checking for a
spark
| >> Testing for spark the old fashioned way can damage
your ignition
computer.
|
| I wonder how this myth ever got
started?
|
| Sparking the plug in the cylinder or on the block exterior
will make no
| difference at all to the ECM. How could it possibly? When a
spark occurs
the
| electrical circuit is:
| - coil output 1 to
| -
plug 1 center electrode to
| - plug 1 ground electrode to
| - engine block
to
| - plug 2 ground electrode to
| - plug 2 center electrode to
| -
coil output 2
| --- a big loop that connects the two coil outputs terminals
(or both leads
of
| the HT windings).
|
| Nothing changes when the
plug is out of the cylinder except 1) no
combustion
| and 2) the required
spark voltage changes (it is lower in the low density
| fresh air, that is,
easier to spark).
|
| Also, the test described by the Mitsu service manual
(Electrical Volume -
| Engine - Ignition System) is .... you guessed it
...
| (1) Remove the spark plug and connect to the spark plug cable.
| (2)
Ground the spark plug outer electrode (body), and crank the engine.
|
|
Spark plug tech:
|
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm|
|
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:35:35
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to find a vacuum leak
The carb cleaner method works if
the vacuum leak is relatively large. For
small leaks, you won't be able
to notice a difference in your engine.
A more precise way to fine a
vacuum leak is to buy a vacuum pump that has a
vacuum guage on it. Just
'T' it into each hose until you find one that has
no vacuum or low vacuum and
then figure out why.
I saw a vacuum pump with guage at NAPA last week for
about $60. It will
save you time if all you are doing is
guessing.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:43:06
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
How to find a vacuum leak
Good advice. but from his description it
sounded like a large leak and it may not
be in a hose as he had the plenum
off.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:13:46
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hesitation at 3700 rpms Update
I replaced my fuel pressure
regulator today. I replaced the fuel filter
Sunday. My car still
hesitates at about 3700 rpms. I had the windows
rolled down today so I
could hear my exhaust backfiring. I guess my problem
is more likely an
ignition problem.
Now I have a few questions about the fuel control
solenoid. When is it
supposed to open? I hooked up my vacuum
gauge to it and I never saw it
open. It didn't open at idle, at
cruising, at boost or when boost was
released.
I have replaced just
about every peice of my fuel system except the hoses
and fuel control
solenoid. I am going to start looking at the ignition
system.
I
just ordered my manuals CD rom. I only have the mechanical repair
manual
that I bought from a coworker so until I get the CD rom I have no idea
how
to trouble shoot the ignition system.
Could someone tell me what
the coil resistance is supposed to be and if
there is a different way to
check it on 3S cars than on other cars?
Doug
92 Stealth RT
TT
Apexi AVC-R, Apexi SAFC, K&N Filter, DN Performance Downpipe, Custom
3" cat
back, high flow cat, Walboro 341 fuel pump, Stillen cross drilled
rotors,
3SX SS braided brake lines and gutted pre-cats, DSM 450 cc injectors,
Direct
Hits ignition system, Thermo Tec exhaust wrap.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#881
***************************************