Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth    Tuesday, June 25 2002    Volume 01 : Number 880




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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:52:39 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Can someone give a quick answer as to why my car will creep downhill
when parked on a hill and turned off and in gear (any gear including
reverse)?  Most annoying.  Some hills around Pittsburgh are too steep to
use the parking brake since the gear is obviously not holding it.

I thought a higher compression gear would make it harder for the car to
try and turn over the engine but every gear fails to hold the car.  What
do I need to look for and replace or fix other than shed 1,500 pounds
off the car?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:37:50 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Chuck,

But it isn't the parking brake that I'm worried about.  It is the fact
that parked in gear the car wants to creep forward.  Not quite like
jumping out of gear but it doesn't hold back too much either.

The parking brake is good enough to hold a car that has its gear holding
back most of the weight.  The parking brake will never hold a 4,000
pound car on a 35-degree slope for extended periods of time.  At least,
I wouldn't trust my car to be in neutral being held only be the e-brake.

But the fact remains that in gear the car will want to creep forward.
So I'm not sure if there is something to look at to fix or is a vacuum
hose is leaking and not holding a vacuum in there somewhere.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:26
To: 'dschilberg@pobox.com'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear


adjust your parking brake.  I can't understand how a hill could be too
steep for the parking brake.  you might also clean the brake dust out of
the drum onthe rear brakes so you get better grip.  also consider
replacing the rear brake shoes.

Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:41:21 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

My first thought is that the clutch is slipping. I'm thinking that you can
see if this is the case by parking in a way that you know the car will
creep. Then open the hood and watch to see if the engine is turning while
the car creeps.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A. Gerhard     1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4  Pearl White

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:47:03 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Sorry, Mike.  The car creeps and gains momentum faster than people are
thinking I guess.  I don't have time to get out and chock the wheels
sometime.  It either didn't start happening until recently or I never
parked on steep hills until recently.  I am not about to step in front
of the car while this is happening.  I'll see if I can point the video
camera in there though - maybe enlist the local neighborhood kids to
help me and put them in front of the tank.

- --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:51:02 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

(The original message was not forwarded since it was emailed to me
privately and list rules prevent me from posting it to the list without
approval; however, my response is more than welcome on the list so here
it is.)

Bob,

   I don't have time to park the car and get out to chock the wheels as
the car nearly instantly starts to creep/roll downhill.  I said that I
tried every gear in every direction (6 forward gears and 1 reverse gear
while facing uphill and the same while facing downhill).  I think I
tried it with the e-brake and it held but you could tell if your
friendly high school Linebacker were you sit in the passenger seat that
the car would probably start moving.
   Pittsburgh has some flat spots but many up and down hilly areas and
it is not always efficient to find the flat spot to park.  Rims are not
pristine so I do put them into the curb like Drivers Ed teaches but not
all streets have curbs either.
   The car in gear and e-brake will hold on small hills (not sure of the
angle but let's say 15 degrees) but anything steeper and I prefer not to
chance it.  Anything over 30 degrees is definitely out.
   I even tried parking, turning off the car, turning on the car (to get
out any compression or vacuum back into the master cylinder or
something), turning off the car again.  Still creeps.  Guess I'll shoot
some video so I can note to myself what is going on.

- --Flash!
www.schilberg.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:55:10 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Chuck,

I don't dispute it, but I certainly don't want to put $25,000 in the
hands of $40 of parking brake shoes/pads.  I would rather drive 400 feet
down the hill, park, and walk up the hill.  The e-brake only prevents
the rear wheels from turning by applying the brake pad.  The rear wheels
can still turn (as evidenced by the fact that a hand-brake turn is done
and still allows the rear wheels to turn some even when applied fully
... say ... at 80 mph for example).  I don't have Porterfield R-4 pads
on the e-brake so it isn't the end-all solution.

I do know that the gear is supposed to hold the car from moving all
wheels not just two wheels like the e-brake.  My bet is on a system that
prevents all four from moving (tranny and all) and that is just not
happening.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:50

If you dispute the ability of the parking brake to hold the car on an
incline, when it is designed to PREVENT the rear wheels from turning,
why would you expect the drive train, which is designed specifically to
TURN the wheels, to be able to PREVENT movement on an incline?



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:56:31 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

There is no way in hell your engine is going to stop a car from creeping
downhill ---- mine holds in my driveway but I wouldn't trust it for much else.
Unless you have 0% compression leakdown the car will roll --- compression
is the main thing that holds the car in place and the worse your leakdown
the faster it will start to roll. Friction will help hold it on gentle slopes but not
anything very aggressive. The E brake is designed to hold on steep slopes,
if it doesn't adjust it so it's tight.

        Jim Berry
=============================================

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:55:56 -0400
From: HigherBeing <scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

If I may add alittle something here,, I am not sure why the vehicle actually
creeps forward, My coment is about the parking brake.  My 93 Stealth RT/TT
when I park this baby i have to be in Neutral and the emergency brake must
be on befoe I get out everytime, Reasons being i use the HKS turbo timmer
and this wil not allows the car to stay running unless  car is in neutral
and parking brake oh. And Being a mechanic i must say that I trust hsat
brake becasue I have seen my car sit on hills preety steep here.

Sorry I cannot answer your question about the creeping thught wighout
actually seeing hte car. I just wanted to reassure you that the parking
brake is suffucent.

Jerry B. 93 Stealth RT/TT & 92 Stealth E/S

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

A properly maintained parking brake..is sufficient.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, HigherBeing wrote:

> If I may add alittle something here,, I am not sure why the vehicle actually
> creeps forward, My coment is about the parking brake.  My 93 Stealth RT/TT
> when I park this baby i have to be in Neutral and the emergency brake must
> be on befoe I get out everytime, Reasons being i use the HKS turbo timmer
> and this wil not allows the car to stay running unless  car is in neutral
> and parking brake oh. And Being a mechanic i must say that I trust hsat
> brake becasue I have seen my car sit on hills preety steep here.
>
> Sorry I cannot answer your question about the creeping thught wighout
> actually seeing hte car. I just wanted to reassure you that the parking
> brake is suffucent.
>
> Jerry B. 93 Stealth RT/TT & 92 Stealth E/S

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:07:40 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Thanks Jerry, Jim, Chuck, and Bob.  I have no doubt there is some
compression there that is helping the car to roll and although I do not
use the e-brake on high-speed runs (so the pads should not be worn down
to nothing) I'll try to take a look at them.  The parking brake has been
adjusted to near specs (so that around 7 clicks or so it is at full
power instead of more than n12 clicks and still going).  If this is the
case then either the cables are letting go of some of the tension or the
pads are slipping.  I'll try to take a look at them next chance I get.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:41:00 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> The e-brake only prevents the rear wheels from
> turning by applying the brake pad.

Which is EXACTLY what you need when parking.

> The rear wheels can still turn (as evidenced
> by the fact that a hand-brake turn is done
> and still allows the rear wheels to turn some even
> when applied fully ... say ... at 80 mph for
> example).  I don't have Porterfield R-4 pads
> on the e-brake so it isn't the end-all solution.

You aren't stopping from 80 with the parking brake. 
These two comparisons are completely and totally
different situations.  The parking brake is MADE to
hold your car on an incline by preventing the rear
wheels from turning.  If you don't trust it, then don't
park on hills.  Engine compression alone is NOT going
to hold your car in place reliably - especially on a
turbo car with 8.0:1 compression.  It ISN'T designed to
do that - the parking brake IS.

> I do know that the gear is supposed to hold the car
> from moving all wheels not just two wheels like the
> e-brake.  My bet is on a system that prevents all
> four from moving (tranny and all) and that is just
> not happening.

The tranny and motor are not designed to stop the
wheels from moving.  There's not enough compression
braking for it to do that on a hill.

Use the parking brake.  That's what it is for.  You
don't need fancy pads to make it work, just pull on the
handle and call it good.  If your parking brake is
weak, then you can adjust the cable tension under the
center console.

I would NEVER trust any motor to hold a car in gear on
a hill.  That's just asking for trouble.

Don't forget to turn your wheels after you are parked
so that if the car does roll the wheels get blocked up
against the curb.

They teach this stuff in Driver's Ed...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:49:33 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

If you dispute the ability of the parking brake to hold the car on an
incline, when it is designed to PREVENT the rear wheels from turning, why
would you expect the drive train, which is designed specifically to TURN the
wheels, to be able to PREVENT movement on an incline?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:54:05 +0200
From: "Primus Motor AS" <norbolig@online.no>
Subject: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof) on a original Dodge Stealth RT twinturbo Coupe

Hello,

does anyone know at what year the Dodge Stealth RT twinturbo could be
ordered with a original Sunroof or Targa Roof ? (I have never seen any
pictures of the vehicle with a original Sunroof or Targa Roof installed, so
I am not sure about what options that really are available).

Have anyone experience with fitting a original Sunroof or Targa Roof (if
available) on a original Coupé. Did you experience any problems doing so? Is
it made any structural reinforcement on the models with a Targa Roof ? (like
on the Corvette Convertible).

Does anyone have any experience with the Mitsubishi 3000GT convertible? (I
guess this was built by ASC). I had a 1995 Toyota Celica GT convertible,
built by ASC, and in my opinion, that had a lot of chassis vibration on bad
roads.

Best regards,
Roger

Firma                                Primus Motor AS
Postadresse                      Postboks 4646 Nydalen, 0405 Oslo
Kontor-/besøksadresse     Olaf Schousvei 7, 0572 Oslo
Telefon                             22 38 38 22  -  9002 1992
Telefax                             22 87 07 71
Web side                          http://primusmotor.no
<http://primusmotor.no>
E-mail                               post@primusmotor.no


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:43:56 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Darren,
It really doesn't take that much force to turn the engine over when
the car is off/parked.  It takes even less to turn the drivetrain.
In fact, I can put a wrench on the crankshaft nut and turn the
engine with the drivetrain engaged (1st or reverse) with probably 150ft-lbs
or so when the car's up on jackstands.  When the tranny's in neutral, I can
turn the engine with closer to 100ft-lbs.  That's not a lot of force,
especially with a 3800lb car on a steep slope.  These are ballpark force
guesses based on a 18" wrench and me pulling on the end of it.
As others have said, I don't think I'd expect the motor's
compression to hold the car on a steep slope, even if you had 0% leakdown.
We don't have a locking mechanism like an automatic when it's in "Park".
And even those don't hold, given enough force.  (AMHIK)

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Charles..my point was not to trust the Ebrake without knowing its in
prooper adjustment..thats all.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> If you dispute the ability of the parking brake to hold the car on an
> incline, when it is designed to PREVENT the rear wheels from turning, why
> would you expect the drive train, which is designed specifically to TURN the
> wheels, to be able to PREVENT movement on an incline?

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:33:51 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

Back on February 18th, someone asked this:

> Does anyone know if the MUT-II can read knock on
> any 3S '94 and up?

Roger replied:

> Yes, it displays knock.

Well, I have a MUT-II in my hands with ROM pack
MB991710 and nowhere in the MUT-II can I find an option
that displays the knock sum.

Can anyone who has supposedly seen this work find out
how their mechanic got it to display the knock value? 
I'm also looking for the fuel trim values, which aren't
displayed either.  Is this stuff in some hidden menu or
something like that?

I'd appreciate any help...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:30:05 -0600
From: norman ross <normanross@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Fw: oil

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: norman ross
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 6:34 AM
> Subject: oil
>
> I have a91 Stealth R/T none tubro what is the best oil to put in.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:02:38 -0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: AI Nut   aka    David Merchant

Does anyone know the status on AI Nut (David Merchant) ?
I've been trying to contact him to no avail.
 
The phone number I have for him gives a "generic" greeting and his
E-mails come back as:
The account has exceeded disk quota.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:09:50 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof)

I didn't think any Stealth had a sunroof but only the 3000GT did.

I don't know about the convertible.  I'm not fortunate to be an owner of
that car but several on here know everything there is so they will
respond.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Primus Motor AS
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 13:54

Hello,

does anyone know at what year the Dodge Stealth RT twinturbo could be
ordered with a original Sunroof or Targa Roof ? (I have never seen any
pictures of the vehicle with a original Sunroof or Targa Roof installed,
so I am not sure about what options that really are available).

Have anyone experience with fitting a original Sunroof or Targa Roof (if
available) on a original Coupé. Did you experience any problems doing
so? Is it made any structural reinforcement on the models with a Targa
Roof ? (like on the Corvette Convertible).

Does anyone have any experience with the Mitsubishi 3000GT convertible?
(I guess this was built by ASC). I had a 1995 Toyota Celica GT
convertible, built by ASC, and in my opinion, that had a lot of chassis
vibration on bad roads.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:42:10 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

Umpgf, I can't remember how he did it. He hooked up the MUT-II, inserted the
module (European 3000GT 1st gen) and then started the engine. He controlled
the temperature values as the front fan was always on. After finding the
switch not working, I asked him about knock. He then switched around and
showed a display showing 0. He then went out, took a long screwdriver and
rubber hammer and knocked to the plate where the sensor is mounted on. The
display started to jump and showed a high value for about 2 seconds until it
dissapeared. He was then also able to replay the data later. Sorry, I'm not
of more help.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <mjannusch@attbi.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

> Back on February 18th, someone asked this:
>
> > Does anyone know if the MUT-II can read knock on
> > any 3S '94 and up?
>
> Roger replied:
>
> > Yes, it displays knock.
>
> Well, I have a MUT-II in my hands with ROM pack
> MB991710 and nowhere in the MUT-II can I find an option
> that displays the knock sum.
>
> Can anyone who has supposedly seen this work find out
> how their mechanic got it to display the knock value?
> I'm also looking for the fuel trim values, which aren't
> displayed either.  Is this stuff in some hidden menu or
> something like that?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: menalteed <menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof)

I don't know of how many first generation Dodge
Stealth
came with the factory sun roof but mine has a sun roof
that has to be removed my hand and then there is a
storage holder in the trunk that still allows for
luggage under the glass roof, plus it has a couple of
turn fittings that hold it down so no rattle. Mine
came from the factory that way and is not a after
market sun roof.

Peter 92 Stealth TT, K&N filter..13G turbos, upgraded
fuel lines.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:54:55 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Thanks, Chuck.  You are only the second person to respond that if the
car is creeping (i.e. the engine is turning) then the clutch is
slipping.  That is basically what I was looking for from the beginning
and not people telling me to review my Driver's Ed book about turning
the wheels to the curb (although I don't mind the reinforcement).

I don't want to cover up the problem of a slipping clutch simply by
applying the hand brake.  That is like turning up the radio louder
instead of fixing the knocking sound which later turns out to be some
bent rods.

And I'm telling you and others that I had applied the parking brake but
it was not holding so either the cable was not tight enough, the shoes
had worn down, or something else was wrong.  I had that inspected today
and pad was 50% remaining so either it was not tight enough or had
something impeding it's full range of motion (like dirt or a bracket,
screw not allowing the cable to be actuated, or debris in the drum).

It works now although now I need to tighten it within specs (which in
the manual says 3-5 clicks and mine was around 7).  So whatever Mr.
Brake Shop removed or lubed up has made it move easier now and I need to
tighten the cable again.

Thanks for hammering on me though Chuck.  It's all good.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:06

If you put it in reverse facing downhill and it still rolls, your clutch
is slipping.

And come on now, you are telling me you can't lock up the rear wheels
with the parking brake?

BTW that's the name of the device: PARKING BRAKE. It's for keeping the
car from rolling when it's parked.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:55:02 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Copper plugs - where to get?

All -

Last weekend at the track, I was having some problems during runs that I
think were either pre-detonation or spark blowout.  I pulled my front plugs
last night (Denso Iridiums, stock heat range, gapped at .038), and they look
like they've been running pretty hot.  A little archive/search reading last
night told me that many people recommend running these plugs at least one
and often two ranges colder, even in lightly modified cars. 

In the interest of not spending entire paychecks on spark plugs, I'm gonna
play around with some coppers.  I've heard they're pretty cheap.  Copper
also conducts much better than platinum or iridium, so it should help if I'm
having spark blowout.  I know they only last for 10k miles, but for a buck a
pop, I could just put in new plugs every time I change my oil.  I removed
EGR, so changing the rear plugs isn't bad anymore. 

So...what copper plugs seem to work well (brand, heat range, etc)?  Can I
pick 'em up at my local Schucks? 

Thanks,
- - Brian

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:58:34 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging

r.e the ECS issue. Depressing ro releasing the ECS button has done nothing
for a couple of weeks, but today I noticed both Tour and Sport lights were
on sumultaneously......

Suggestions?

Thx

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 4:03 PM
To: 'cerri@intersystems.com'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Cerri [SMTP:cerri@intersystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 2:49 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging
>
> Three questions for my 92 SL:
>
> 1) ECS. Is this dynamic I.e. can it be adjusted on the move?
[Willis, Charles E.]  Yes.
> I've tried both
> positions of the button, and either see nothing appear in the dash
> display,
> or watch it flick back and forward between the two modes.
[Willis, Charles E.]  Don't understand - if you see nothing then you
probably have burned out bulbs for Tour and Sport.  If it switches between
which bulb is lit, it is working.  Does an SL actually have ECS?

> 2) TPS. Have an intermittent problem whereby the autobox won't change up
> unless I release the throttle for a fraction. Also, check engine light
> comes
> on when this is happening as I come to a stop.
[Willis, Charles E.]  Ah, hah!  Check the CODE that is stored for
the Check Engine Light.  Based on what the dealer is saying, it is the code
for TPS.  Some codes are erased when the condition that generated them is
corrected.  Check the service manual.  You could swap the TPS yourself and
save some $.
> Took the car to a dealer for
> a missed recall and they suggested the TPS needed replacing and quoted
> $140
> or so, but it wasn't 100% as of course it didn't happen that day.
> Comments?
>
> 3) Datalogging. Is there a good write up anywhere on how to do this i.e.
> what software, cables, diagnoses etc? I have the laptop....;o)
>
> Thx
>
> Andre

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:58:32 -0400
From: "Andre Cerri" <cerri@intersystems.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: [mi3si] Recall?

CarFax will also list missing recalls. I know this 'cause when I bought mine
it listed a brake hose that had yet to be done.

Andre

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger J. Roskam
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:26 PM
To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Re: [mi3si] Recall?


Message>>> Would I expect to receive notification even though I am not the
original owner? How would Dodge/Mitsu know about me owning a Stealth 3rd
hand? Through my car registration? <<<


DaimlerChrysler has a database searchable by VIN.  E-mail me your VIN and I
can look it up to see if you are listed as the owner.  You probably are --
they keep track of these things for this reason (recalls).

Anybody with a Stealth (must be a Dodge, no Mitsu branded cars) - I can tell
you when your car was built, what option codes it had, any recalls, etc.
Send me your VIN.  =)

Roger Roskam
91 Indy Stealth RT/TT

work e-mail:
rjr15@dcx.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:03:47 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Okay. I feel a need to intervene now, or else someone would read this and
believe it too.

Flash, there is nothing wrong with your clutch.

It is okay for the car to creep if it is in gear. You engine is spinning
slowly. Pistons cannot keep pressure forever. If you do not believe this,
remove the plastic timing belt cover and watch your engine turn.

It will turn forward or backward depending if you are in 1st or in
reverse. It will turn easier in 6th.

Philip

- ---------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Chuck.  You are only the second person to respond that if the
car is creeping (i.e. the engine is turning) then the clutch is
slipping.  That is basically what I was looking for from the beginning
and not people telling me to review my Driver's Ed book about turning
the wheels to the curb (although I don't mind the reinforcement).

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:07:02 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECS and TPS and Datalogging

You may have a bad electrical contact on one of the plugs on your struts.
The front ones are easy to get to.  Just removed 3 nuts on the top of the
struts.  The rear ones are a little harder to get to.  A few panels have to
come off first.

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:01:42 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Subject: RE:  Team3S:  Different Rear valve cover

Tried sending this directly but got some weird error.  Hope you come across this on the list.
I noticed your post about the rear valve cover, and was wondering if you got any cores in for my 1997 VR4 yet ?  Either the intake,
or front rocker cover ?

You wouldn't happen to have radiator brackets would you ?

Thanks
Anthony Melillo


Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:32:28 -0400
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: RE:  Team3S:  Different Rear valve cover

Hoping someone who's out there can give me a quick answer.  As you probably
know I polish and powder coat valve covers, but I don't ususally do the rear
valve cover.  However I have 2 on my table right now - and  I just noticed
that they're different.  One has a flared out semi-circular area where the
timing belt runs (driver's side bottom corner) and the timing belt cover
attaches, the other is boxed off square just like the front valve cover.  I
know my '92 VR-4 has the boxed off style.  What is this flared out verison -
is it a model year change?  Is it turbo vs. non-turbo??  Is it
interchangable? (It doesn't look like it is).
Any help or insight here would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks
- - - Dave Best
'92 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:19:47 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

Wait, I just saw the title, my car is a 93 and we had the first gen till 96.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

> Umpgf, I can't remember how he did it. He hooked up the MUT-II, inserted
the
> module (European 3000GT 1st gen) and then started the engine. He
controlled
> the temperature values as the front fan was always on. After finding the
> switch not working, I asked him about knock. He then switched around and
> showed a display showing 0. He then went out, took a long screwdriver and
> rubber hammer and knocked to the plate where the sensor is mounted on. The
> display started to jump and showed a high value for about 2 seconds until
it
> dissapeared. He was then also able to replay the data later. Sorry, I'm
not
> of more help.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mjannusch@attbi.com>
> To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:33 PM
> Subject: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+
>
>
> > Back on February 18th, someone asked this:
> >
> > > Does anyone know if the MUT-II can read knock on
> > > any 3S '94 and up?
> >
> > Roger replied:
> >
> > > Yes, it displays knock.
> >
> > Well, I have a MUT-II in my hands with ROM pack
> > MB991710 and nowhere in the MUT-II can I find an option
> > that displays the knock sum.
> >
> > Can anyone who has supposedly seen this work find out
> > how their mechanic got it to display the knock value?
> > I'm also looking for the fuel trim values, which aren't
> > displayed either.  Is this stuff in some hidden menu or
> > something like that?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:25:21 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Philip,

Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want to come to a
stop and not put the clutch in) but after a few lurches it just wants to
go full tilt and starts careening down the hill.  It isn't like an
Automatic when you park and take your foot off the brake and it creeps 4
inches and stops.

I feel a video clip is in order.  Maybe tomorrow I'll go and do this.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 16:04

Okay. I feel a need to intervene now, or else someone would read this
and believe it too.

Flash, there is nothing wrong with your clutch.

It is okay for the car to creep if it is in gear. You engine is spinning
slowly. Pistons cannot keep pressure forever. If you do not believe
this, remove the plastic timing belt cover and watch your engine turn.

It will turn forward or backward depending if you are in 1st or in
reverse. It will turn easier in 6th.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:05:59 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

If you put it in reverse facing downhill and it still rolls, your clutch is
slipping.

And come on now, you are telling me you can't lock up the rear wheels with
the parking brake?

BTW that's the name of the device: PARKING BRAKE. It's for keeping the car
from rolling when it's parked.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
>
> Chuck,
>
> I don't dispute it, but I certainly don't want to put $25,000 in the
> hands of $40 of parking brake shoes/pads.  I would rather drive 400 feet
> down the hill, park, and walk up the hill.  The e-brake only prevents
> the rear wheels from turning by applying the brake pad.  The rear wheels
> can still turn (as evidenced by the fact that a hand-brake turn is done
> and still allows the rear wheels to turn some even when applied fully
> ... say ... at 80 mph for example).  I don't have Porterfield R-4 pads
> on the e-brake so it isn't the end-all solution.
>
> I do know that the gear is supposed to hold the car from moving all
> wheels not just two wheels like the e-brake.  My bet is on a system that
> prevents all four from moving (tranny and all) and that is just not
> happening.
>
> --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:25:54 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

adjust your parking brake.  I can't understand how a hill could be too steep
for the parking brake.  you might also clean the brake dust out of the drum
onthe rear brakes so you get better grip.  also consider replacing the rear
brake shoes.

Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Darren:

A properly adjusted Ebrake will hold even on SF hills.

However, anyone parking on a hill should do so legally..and point the
wheels appropriately to the curb as well.

You WILL get at ticket in the City for that.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> If you put it in reverse facing downhill and it still rolls, your clutch is
> slipping.
>
> And come on now, you are telling me you can't lock up the rear wheels with
> the parking brake?
>
> BTW that's the name of the device: PARKING BRAKE. It's for keeping the car
> from rolling when it's parked.

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:37:22 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Land of incompetence

RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
>
Having lived in Pittsburgh for three years, I learned that it is the Land of Incompetence. No one seems to be able to do anything right in that town, including Sears, furniture stores, car dealers, highway departments, pothole repairs and so on. Boy do I have stories...I have seen three-bedroom potholes, big enough to swallow a city bus (I am not kidding). I've seen steelworkers cheer when they are laid off. I've seen steel mills shut down for the 1st day of hunting season. I saw Iron City beer set off a detector at the airport. I could go on.

Maybe the poor car picked up that tendency toward incompetence too, so now neither its clutch nor e-brake work properly. Solution: move away.

Rich/slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:10:00 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want
> to come to a stop and not put the clutch in) but after a
> few lurches it just wants to go full tilt and starts careening
> down the hill. 

This sounds like your clutch is fine - it sounds like there is enough force
exerted by gravity on the wheels (think components of gravitational force
parallel and perpendicular to the road surface) to cause the engine to begin
turning.  After a few revs, there's probably enough momentum to make it turn
more smoothly.

> It isn't like an Automatic when you park and take your
> foot off the brake and it creeps 4 inches and stops.

AFAIK, most automatic transmissions actually have a "peg" that blocks the
gears from moving relative to each other when in park.  Thus it's not the
engine's compression that holds an automatic still.  Our manual
transmissions are a completely different beast.

If you question your clutch's holding ability, go find a hill on I-376 or
I-279 (there are some good ones out by Monroeville if you're out that
way)...  go up the hill and get it going 55-60mph and put it in 5th... floor
it and build boost.  If the tach doesn't spike up, then you're fine.

- --Erik
DuPont, WA, but went to college in the 'burgh

P.S.  I learned to drive a stick in my first (NA) 3000GT in Pittsburgh.  I
grew to hate those hills with a passion :-)  Too little throttle, your roll
back and stall and look like a fool.  To much throttle and you either smoke
the front tires, the clutch, or both.  No one ever told me about the e-brake
then...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:43:11 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Copper plugs - where to get?

Brian,

Go to www.sparkplugs.com and in the NGK plug search put in 3330 and it
should come up with a 1 range colder copper plug for our cars gapped at
.034.  At least that is how mine came.  I paid $15 shipped two day air for 6
plugs.

    Francis   
'96 RT/TT  

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geddes, Brian J [mailto:brian.j.geddes@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 2:55 PM
To: Team3S Mailing List (E-mail); Starnet Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Copper plugs - where to get?

All -

Last weekend at the track, I was having some problems during runs that I
think were either pre-detonation or spark blowout.  I pulled my front plugs
last night (Denso Iridiums, stock heat range, gapped at .038), and they look
like they've been running pretty hot.  A little archive/search reading last
night told me that many people recommend running these plugs at least one
and often two ranges colder, even in lightly modified cars.

In the interest of not spending entire paychecks on spark plugs, I'm gonna
play around with some coppers.  I've heard they're pretty cheap.  Copper
also conducts much better than platinum or iridium, so it should help if I'm
having spark blowout.  I know they only last for 10k miles, but for a buck a
pop, I could just put in new plugs every time I change my oil.  I removed
EGR, so changing the rear plugs isn't bad anymore.

So...what copper plugs seem to work well (brand, heat range, etc)?  Can I
pick 'em up at my local Schucks?

Thanks,
- - Brian

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:35:49 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof)

Sorry ... meant to add that I don't think there were power sunroofs on
any Stealth.  Apologize for my original response.  I have seen the
manual ones like Peter has.  I was trying to fend off emails left and
right about car creep earlier today.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: menalteed [mailto:menalteed@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 15:50

I don't know of how many first generation Dodge
Stealth came with the factory sun roof but mine has a sun roof
that has to be removed my hand and then there is a
storage holder in the trunk that still allows for
luggage under the glass roof, plus it has a couple of
turn fittings that hold it down so no rattle. Mine
came from the factory that way and is not a after
market sun roof.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:38:13 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Copper plugs - where to get?

I purchased NGK BCPR6ES-11 plugs at the local Checker Auto. The local AutoZone
does not carry NGK and PepBoys carries limited number of NGK models. Call
around to the local non-chain shops too to see who carries NGK. Online sources
and much more info, including a cross reference guide, are on my web page
below.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
To: "Team3S Mailing List (E-mail)" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>; "Starnet
Mailing List (E-mail)" <stealth@stls.verio.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Team3S: Copper plugs - where to get?

<snip>
So...what copper plugs seem to work well (brand, heat range, etc)?  Can I
pick 'em up at my local Schucks? 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:49:38 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Okay.  Clutch is not slipping then.  This was replaced at 45k when the
remfg tranny went in so there is only 50k on this clutch and only two
DEs I believe (which are not all that hard on the clutch anyway when I
drive).  And I know it won't slip like you say.  Not that I've done that
but I have started up on enough hills that the clutch grabs well.  I've
had worn clutches before (including one on this car) so I think I can
rule that out.

Yes it is nice learning to drive a manual around Pittsburgh.  I learned
too and during Driver's Ed we were not official until our father put us
through "Dad's Driver Skill Test."  This included stopping the car on a
nice incline, getting out, switching seats with us, and making us start
up without drifting back much.  Yes we had to do it the hard way before
learning how to use the e-brake to cheat.  Then we had a 1985 Subaru
Wagon (non-AWD).  It had the most impressive idea of a "hill holder"
where you came to a stop, I think you put it in neutral and released the
clutch, and then applied the brake pedal a bit farther than where you
had it initially.  Then you released your foot off the brake pedal.
That was the scariest thing to do in my life at the time.  A nice car
just two feet behind me and my dad telling me to take my foot off the
brake pedal and the e-brake had not been applied yet.  To my surprise,
the car held.

And I hear that Subaru is again putting this on their new cars.  So I
don't know how it worked then but that would be a real nice addition to
any manual car.

Yes we have our nice hills.  One is a hill that used to be sort of an
incline (where a trolley would be towed up it attach to a cable ...
that's as good a description as I can give to folks not familiar with an
incline) so imagine driving on one street like that.  Then there is
Rialto Street and Sycamore Street.  Yes we have some nice hills.

I for one think the 'Burg hills are small as I grew up in West Virginia.
What I grew up thinking as hills were "mountains" to Pittsburgh folk.  I
think the WV folk refer to themselves as "Little Switzerland" which is
funny because nobody else refers to them as that ... and the Swiss
certainly do not call themselves "Big West Virginia."

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik [mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 17:10
To: 'dschilberg@pobox.com'; Team3S List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want
> to come to a stop and not put the clutch in) but after a
> few lurches it just wants to go full tilt and starts careening
> down the hill. 

This sounds like your clutch is fine - it sounds like there is enough
force exerted by gravity on the wheels (think components of
gravitational force parallel and perpendicular to the road surface) to
cause the engine to begin turning.  After a few revs, there's probably
enough momentum to make it turn more smoothly.

> It isn't like an Automatic when you park and take your
> foot off the brake and it creeps 4 inches and stops.

AFAIK, most automatic transmissions actually have a "peg" that blocks
the gears from moving relative to each other when in park.  Thus it's
not the engine's compression that holds an automatic still.  Our manual
transmissions are a completely different beast.

If you question your clutch's holding ability, go find a hill on I-376
or I-279 (there are some good ones out by Monroeville if you're out that
way)...  go up the hill and get it going 55-60mph and put it in 5th...
floor it and build boost.  If the tach doesn't spike up, then you're
fine.

- --Erik
DuPont, WA, but went to college in the 'burgh

P.S.  I learned to drive a stick in my first (NA) 3000GT in Pittsburgh.
I grew to hate those hills with a passion :-)  Too little throttle, your
roll back and stall and look like a fool.  To much throttle and you
either smoke the front tires, the clutch, or both.  No one ever told me
about the e-brake then...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:04:09 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want to come to a
> stop and not put the clutch in) but after a few lurches it just wants to
> go full tilt and starts careening down the hill.  It isn't like an
> Automatic when you park and take your foot off the brake and it creeps 4
> inches and stops.

This sounds very scary.  Your car should not ever let go completely like
that.  Could you sit in the car next time with the key still in?  With the
key in the ON position and in gear, if your car starts to roll down the hill
it should start.  If the clutch just completely gives out like that, then at
least you will be in the car so you can scream before it hits a tree.  Just
kidding.  So you can stop it with the brakes, double clutch it, hit the
E-brake, etc.

A clutch that is slipping will usually do other things like not go into
gear, grind going into gears, not come out of a gear, the engine will rev up
a little while in a gear and not change the speed, grab hard when you let
out instead of slowly and smoothly, the clutch peddal may vibrate, etc.
Does your clutch do anything else besides not hold your car on a hill?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:12:39 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

ooooooh...I got it flash! go to a hotrdding site like summit or jegs
and look into line locks.....very similar to your subaru
thing.....sand rails use them too.....presson the brakes..the real
brakes....then throw the switch. WALLA!!!!!! no parking brake needed
at all cuz all four are locked up good and tight...not even a toe
truck could roll you out of the spot...well they do have big winches
though :)

it slices into the brake line, bery common thing for those speed bump
smoke shows we all did in high school....I feel you pain about the
Dad test...I learned to drive a stick in a old Ford econoline 200
with three on the tree....passed the hill test with a small burn out
and a grin from the old man but every time I shifted I changed lanes
:)

three on the tree sucks!

bobk.

- ---- Original Message ----
From: dschilberg@pobox.com
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:49:38 -0400

>Okay.  Clutch is not slipping then.  This was replaced at 45k when
>the
>remfg tranny went in so there is only 50k on this clutch and only two
>DEs I believe (which are not all that hard on the clutch anyway when
>I
>drive).  And I know it won't slip like you say.  Not that I've done
>that
>but I have started up on enough hills that the clutch grabs well. 
>I've
>had worn clutches before (including one on this car) so I think I can
>rule that out.
>
>Yes it is nice learning to drive a manual around Pittsburgh.  I
>learned
>too and during Driver's Ed we were not official until our father put
>us
>through "Dad's Driver Skill Test."  This included stopping the car
>on a
>nice incline, getting out, switching seats with us, and making us
>start
>up without drifting back much.  Yes we had to do it the hard way
>before
>learning how to use the e-brake to cheat.  Then we had a 1985 Subaru
>Wagon (non-AWD).  It had the most impressive idea of a "hill holder"
>where you came to a stop, I think you put it in neutral and released
>the
>clutch, and then applied the brake pedal a bit farther than where you
>had it initially.  Then you released your foot off the brake pedal.
>That was the scariest thing to do in my life at the time.  A nice car
>just two feet behind me and my dad telling me to take my foot off the
>brake pedal and the e-brake had not been applied yet.  To my
>surprise,
>the car held.
>
>And I hear that Subaru is again putting this on their new cars.  So I
>don't know how it worked then but that would be a real nice addition
>to
>any manual car.
>
>Yes we have our nice hills.  One is a hill that used to be sort of an
>incline (where a trolley would be towed up it attach to a cable ...
>that's as good a description as I can give to folks not familiar
>with an
>incline) so imagine driving on one street like that.  Then there is
>Rialto Street and Sycamore Street.  Yes we have some nice hills.
>
>I for one think the 'Burg hills are small as I grew up in West
>Virginia.
>What I grew up thinking as hills were "mountains" to Pittsburgh
>folk.  I
>think the WV folk refer to themselves as "Little Switzerland" which
>is
>funny because nobody else refers to them as that ... and the Swiss
>certainly do not call themselves "Big West Virginia."
>
>--Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> at all cuz all four are locked up good and tight...not even a toe
> truck could roll you out of the spot...well they do have big winches
> though :)
- ---
Bet me.

Ive drug cars sidways with the Jeep fairly easilly.  Wheels dont ahve to
turn..to move a car.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:24:39 -0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: E-brake indicator light on acceleration

Chuck,

I replaced the cap last year after discovering fluid draining from the cap.
It didn't help.  My guess is that the big reds are getting the Motul hot
enough to expand/bubble up in the reservoir through the vent hole.  I can't
be sure as I can't find anyone to ride in the engine bay during hard track
time.  The problem is mostly resolved by only running the reservoir half
full.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Dave and Becky Trent'" <bdtrent@netzero.net>; "Team3s"
<team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: E-brake indicator light on acceleration


> are you sure that brake fluid is coming out and not power steering fluid?
>
> if brake fluid is coming out of your reservior, you need to replace the
> cap/rubber diaphragm.  That is NOT normal.
>
> Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave and Becky Trent [SMTP:bdtrent@netzero.net]
> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:48 PM
> > To: Team3s
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: E-brake indicator light on acceleration
> >
> > I can attest to the fact that if your fluid reservoir is not all the way
> > up
> > to the high level mark, hard acceleration will initiate the warning
light.
> > Unfortuntely, as an avid open tracker, running fluid much above half
full
> > results in brake fluid leaking out of the cap during hard use.  I've
> > learned
> > to ignore the warning light as opposed to cleaning up brake fluid from
> > around the reservoir.
> >
> > Regards,
> > DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:28:16 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Keeping in mind that engine compression is what keeps the car from rolling
and the fact that we only have 8:1 for a turbo car it's no wonder that it starts
to roll.

Get a 20:1 desiel with zero leakdown and you'll be in fine shape.

        Jim Berry
 ==============================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>

> Philip,
>
> Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want to come to a
> stop and not put the clutch in) but after a few lurches it just wants to
> go full tilt and starts careening down the hill.  It isn't like an
> Automatic when you park and take your foot off the brake and it creeps 4
> inches and stops.
>
> I feel a video clip is in order.  Maybe tomorrow I'll go and do this.
>
> --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:39:45 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+

> Umpgf, I can't remember how he did it. He hooked up
> the MUT-II, inserted the module (European 3000GT
> 1st gen)

Hmmm.  Looks like the answer didn't really apply to the
2nd gen cars then.  I can't find any way to get knock
out of it, although you can log lots of other sensor
and solenoid data to a PC card and play it back.

Glad I didn't pay $2000 for one and then find out it
actually doesn't do knock sum.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:40:28 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof)

> From: menalteed [mailto:menalteed@yahoo.com]
> I don't know of how many first generation Dodge Stealth came with the
factory sun roof but mine has a sun roof that has to be removed my hand and
then there is a storage holder in the trunk that still allows for luggage
under the glass roof, plus it has a couple of turn fittings that hold it
down so no rattle. Mine came from the factory that way and is not a after
 market sun roof.
- --------------------------->

FYI...  Although many dealers called them "factory" sunroofs, the fact is
that NO sunroof (neither power nor manual) came from the factory that way.
They are ALL aftermarket sunroofs, according to my sources...  A couple of
Dodge dealers called it a "factory sunroof" when I was shopping for my car
in '94, but in fact they were all contracted out to local sunroof shops,
using a "general" spec suggested by Chrysler.  I'm guessing that there are
probably several dozen different types of sunroofs on our cars, depending on
the local talent in the city where you bought your car.

I've been told by three different dealers that they did it that way for a
number of reasons - not the least of which was that so many people cancel
their car order even after making the down payment.  Most people who buy a
performance car for actual "performance" don't want a sunroof or moonroof,
since they are so noisy at high speeds.  So if the car order was cancelled,
the dealer wanted the option of selling the car with- or without-  the
sunroof!

My main dealer recommended (at that time) that if I wanted one, I should
oversee the installation myself (and save $250) by going to the shop that
*they* use for all Stealths.  He told me there is no such thing as a sunroof
that came from the factory.  I checked this out with two other dealer
friends (one, a client and the other, one of our "Good Guys" dealers) and
they verified that indeed, they all left Nagoya as coupes..., sans sunroof.
I did call the sunroof installer at that time, and he, too, said that he did
almost all of the sunroofs in that area of the State for the dealers.  The
installer told me that this was common practice with most car companies (at
that time, anyway) but I only researched it specifically for the Stealth.

A sunroof or moonroof is in a category known as "dealer-installed
accessories", (along with cell phones, mobile phones, alarms, etc).  Look in
the booklet for your car - any year - you won't find it listed and you won't
find a picture of a Stealth *except* as a solid-roof coupe.  You may have
*paid* for it as a "factory" item, but then again, you wouldn't have been
willing to spring for all that money if you actually KNEW it was done after
it arrived here by "Manny's Moonroof Mall" down the block, now would you?
:-)  As such, it is still considered an aftermarket item.

Best,
Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:47:51 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> If you put it in reverse facing downhill and it
> still rolls, your clutch is slipping.

The gear you are in has nothing to do with whether it
the car can roll downhill in a manual transmission
car.  It is just as easy for the weight to spin the
motor backwards as it is forwards.  If the clutch was
slipping under that small load, it would be slipping
like crazy when trying to accelerate where a lot more
torque is involved.

Its the parking brakes, if anything.  I find it hard to
believe that this is really a discussion.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:56:29 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: How to install a original Sunrrof (or Targa Roof)

All this sunroof/moonroof talk has made me think:  Has anyone ever done
a Targa conversion; i.e. a fully removable roof section, while
maintaining a hatch section, like the vetts?  I was looking at a profile
of my car, and I think it would look absolutely bitching with the roof
off!!!

Anyone know of a place that might do something like this?  With bonus
time coming soon, it might be one of those things that are just too cool
to have, especially with the california summer right around the corner.

Damon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:54:15 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Eric G. explained everything right. Your car just starts running downhill
in gear. You can jump start your car like that if you battery is dead.
Just sit in it and turn the ignition on when you reach 3-5 mph. It may
start in a reverse direction if you are spinning your engine backwards.
Some cars do.

Automatic transmissions have a special parking gear with square teeth and
a "peg" or a "dog" that gets in between those teeth and stops that gear.
If that dog gives way for some reason, your car will run downhill as if it
was in neutral. Major lawsuits happen to car companies it that happens.

Fix your parking brake. If should be able to hold you car on a 30% (or
maybe 45%) grade. It is a legislated requirement. No car company can sell
a new car if the parking brake is not capable to hold it from rolling
downhill in Pittsburgh.

The parking brake uses brake shoes inside the rear brake disk hat (kinda
little drum brake). There is another free play adjustment there. It is a
special double-sided left thread and right thread nut that you could turn
and spread the pads more. You do not have to remove the rear disks to do
that, but I would remove it just to make sure that the shoes are clean.
Once you take you rear wheel off, you will see a rubber plug between the
wheel studs. Pull it out and turn the disk until you can see that nut with
notches on it. You can turn that nut by hitting those notches with a small
chisel or a screwdriver. I am not sure it adjusting it would increase the
brake force though. My parking brake is not very good, just like yours
probably. But I live in a relatively flat Michigan. Read the manual, see
how they want it to be adjusted.

Philip

- ----------------------------------------------

Philip,

Well the car creeps (lurches a few times like when you want to come to a
stop and not put the clutch in) but after a few lurches it just wants to
go full tilt and starts careening down the hill.  It isn't like an
Automatic when you park and take your foot off the brake and it creeps 4
inches and stops.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:01:49 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

the gear does matter.  Reverse is the highest mechanical advantate gear
from the engine point of view (most engine revolutions/wheel
revolutions).  Therefore, it requires the most torque from the wheels to
actually get the engine to turn against the resistance of the
compression, friction, etc.  Kinda like the oposite of why you
accelerate fastest in 1st- mechanical advantage, but in reverse.

why not just use both a low gear (1st or reverse) and the parking brake?
  Car should not move anywhere, regardless.  If you're really paranoid,
just put some chocks in front or behind the wheels, whenever you park on
a hill.  4x4s should be more than adequate.

mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:

>>If you put it in reverse facing downhill and it
>>still rolls, your clutch is slipping.
>>
>
> The gear you are in has nothing to do with whether it
> the car can roll downhill in a manual transmission
> car.  It is just as easy for the weight to spin the
> motor backwards as it is forwards.  If the clutch was
> slipping under that small load, it would be slipping
> like crazy when trying to accelerate where a lot more
> torque is involved.
>
> Its the parking brakes, if anything.  I find it hard to
> believe that this is really a discussion.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:05:01 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Damon,

I don't think people were reading the posts I was responding with.  If
you did then you would have seen that, at first, there was no physical
possibility to get out and chock the wheels before the car would start
rolling.  However, since then I have had the e-brake shoes inspected and
they may have blown out any debris that was preventing the shoes from
contacting firmly.

Now, the parking brake holds on one kind of steep hill near my place but
of course I don't want to trust this now knowing that the e-brake may
have debris in it or the engine won't hold it at all so I'm wary of even
parking on gently slopes so I'll have to build my confidence back up.
Maybe park the car on a remote hillside for a week with nothing but the
parking brake.  Then I'll know for sure it can hold.

Similar story, in my parent's 1986 Acura Legend L one time I had been
driving to college in Erie and needed to get a drink and some snacks.  I
backed into a spot (which made the car face downhill) and set the
parking brake.  When I came out the car had moved about 3 feet forward.
The warm tires were sitting on a sheet of black ice that melted and
caused the car to slide.  Scary.  Wheels never rotated but the whole car
moved.  I learned my lesson.

I think this thread has been discussed enough and solutions are adequate
now.  Thanks.

- --Flash!
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Damon Rachell
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 19:02

the gear does matter.  Reverse is the highest mechanical advantate gear
from the engine point of view (most engine revolutions/wheel
revolutions).  Therefore, it requires the most torque from the wheels to

actually get the engine to turn against the resistance of the
compression, friction, etc.  Kinda like the oposite of why you
accelerate fastest in 1st- mechanical advantage, but in reverse.

why not just use both a low gear (1st or reverse) and the parking brake?

  Car should not move anywhere, regardless.  If you're really paranoid,
just put some chocks in front or behind the wheels, whenever you park on

a hill.  4x4s should be more than adequate.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

> Now, the parking brake holds on one kind of steep hill near my place but
> of course I don't want to trust this now knowing that the e-brake may
> have debris in it or the engine won't hold it at all so I'm wary of even
> parking on gently slopes so I'll have to build my confidence back up.
> Maybe park the car on a remote hillside for a week with nothing but the
> parking brake.  Then I'll know for sure it can hold.
- ---
Then just start parking wisely against the curb.  Whats the big deal?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:05:04 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car creeping forward while parked in gear

Using the tranny and engine to park against is hard on the tranny as it
snugs all the running gear to one side and sqeezes the oil out from between
the bearings, dogs and gear surfaces since it's not rotating to replenish
it. Just my 2 cents.

Pete Rivenburg, 93 3000GTSL no mods, yet! ;-)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:09:22 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

Dear dataloggers, there must be some correlation between the degree of
knock and the ignition retardation. I saw some of you logs and I can see
it on some but not the others.

QUESTION: (to professional and weekend tuners)
Is if possible to use ignition timing only on our cars and tune engines
efficiently, without looking at knock?

Can MUT-II log ignition timing?

Philip

- ----------------------------

Hmmm.  Looks like the answer didn't really apply to the
2nd gen cars then.  I can't find any way to get knock
out of it, although you can log lots of other sensor
and solenoid data to a PC card and play it back.

Glad I didn't pay $2000 for one and then find out it
actually doesn't do knock sum.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:17:00 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

> Dear dataloggers, there must be some correlation
> between the degree of knock and the ignition
> retardation. I saw some of you logs and I can see
> it on some but not the others.

If I get knock I do see that the ECU pulls timing
fairly quickly.  I have no idea how to correlate
the "knock sum" to timing retard though since my car
won't produce knock sum numbers.

> QUESTION: (to professional and weekend tuners)
> Is if possible to use ignition timing only on our
> cars and tune engines efficiently, without looking
> at knock?

I think you probably want to look at a combination of
timing advance, O2 sensor readings, and EGTs to get an
overall idea of engine health.  Most cars do not have
access to knock data like the 1st gen cars do, and this
is how they tune their cars.

> Can MUT-II log ignition timing?

Yes, it can.  The PMS can as well.

I've also seen that some people are hooking up their
knock sensor to one of the extra inputs on the S-AFC
and have kinda sorta decided that voltages above .08v
represent knocking.

I'm not sure if I concur with that, as I doubt the
sampling rate of the S-AFC is high enough to catch most
incidents of knock.  The waveform of knock from the
sensor is very short in duration.  ....but it seems
people are getting more and more serious about figuring
this out - which is good.

If that idea proves out, then I will be incorporating a
simulated "knock sum" on my digital gauge project.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

IMHO..without fuel and ignition control..youre not really tuning at all.

S-ITC, rest in peace. Too bad they didnt upgrade that product to a more
versatile & graphical product.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:

> > Dear dataloggers, there must be some correlation
> > between the degree of knock and the ignition
> > retardation. I saw some of you logs and I can see
> > it on some but not the others.
>
> If I get knock I do see that the ECU pulls timing
> fairly quickly.  I have no idea how to correlate
> the "knock sum" to timing retard though since my car
> won't produce knock sum numbers.
>
> > QUESTION: (to professional and weekend tuners)
> > Is if possible to use ignition timing only on our
> > cars and tune engines efficiently, without looking
> > at knock?
>
> I think you probably want to look at a combination of
> timing advance, O2 sensor readings, and EGTs to get an
> overall idea of engine health.  Most cars do not have
> access to knock data like the 1st gen cars do, and this
> is how they tune their cars.
>
> > Can MUT-II log ignition timing?
>
> Yes, it can.  The PMS can as well.
>
> I've also seen that some people are hooking up their
> knock sensor to one of the extra inputs on the S-AFC
> and have kinda sorta decided that voltages above .08v
> represent knocking.
>
> I'm not sure if I concur with that, as I doubt the
> sampling rate of the S-AFC is high enough to catch most
> incidents of knock.  The waveform of knock from the
> sensor is very short in duration.  ....but it seems
> people are getting more and more serious about figuring
> this out - which is good.
>
> If that idea proves out, then I will be incorporating a
> simulated "knock sum" on my digital gauge project.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:42:59 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

> IMHO..without fuel and ignition control..youre not
> really tuning at all.

Luckily for me, the PMS does both.  ;-)

> S-ITC, rest in peace. Too bad they didnt upgrade
> that product to a more versatile & graphical product.

Yeah, I'm surprised that they never did.  It really
would've made a good companion with the new S-AFC. 
Even better yet, they could've combined the two
products.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:51:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

*nods*

Greddy E-manage.  Thats what im waiting for. 

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:

> > IMHO..without fuel and ignition control..youre not
> > really tuning at all.
>
> Luckily for me, the PMS does both.  ;-)
>
> > S-ITC, rest in peace. Too bad they didnt upgrade
> > that product to a more versatile & graphical product.
>
> Yeah, I'm surprised that they never did.  It really
> would've made a good companion with the new S-AFC. 
> Even better yet, they could've combined the two
> products.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:50:11 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

> *nods*
> Greddy E-manage.  Thats what im waiting for. 

I agree, I think the E-Manage has potential...  And at
this rate it should be out before the AEM EMS is ready
for our cars (although supposedly it is being "tested"
in limited release).  E-Manage is also pretty darn
inexpensive too.  I like how easy the PMS is to tune
with the handheld unit though...  Very slick to not
have to lug a laptop around unless you really need it.

I'm going back to the dragstrip this Saturday to make
some high-boost passes and refine the PMS tuning for
550cc injectors.  Hopefully all will go well - I'm
shooting for high 11's so I can get kicked off the
track.  ;-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Knock vs. Ign. Timing (was Re: Team3S: MUT-II and Knock '94+)

I agree on the handheld part..but..you really dont need to change things
once you have your own happy setup.  You should allow for change..and
leave enough safety overhead to deal with it.

the only time Id have to reprog, is at the track..where I might DETUNE a
little for safety.


- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:08:55 -0700
From: "Richard L. Barron" <radanc@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Intercooler Piping

Even worse is my situation in which I bought the IHI turbo kit with
front mount and IC piping. Absolutely nothing that was manufactured by
DN was done correctly from the header gasket, pipe doesn't mate
correctly and really cheapo stuff to hold the connections together. Also
part of the piping is partially cutting off radiator hose to radiator.
Did I mention that the whole front turbo has to be altered to fit. Oh,
and the braket to mount to the intake manifold is off by about a couple
of inches so can't be used. The headers kit is off by 3 inches so that I
had to have an extender to the cat added so that the kit mated with the
downpipe. The front mount brackets are so poorly manufactured that only
2 can be used. Siggh, after all of this I can only boost to about 7 psi
right now until the piping is on better. Don't even ask how much this
cost.

Rich

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Intercooler Piping

After doing one pass or just driving hard, my DN Performance intercooler
pipes are a bit hotter than I think IC pipes should be.  Am I the only
one experiencing this, or are hot IC pipes a common thing?  I ask this
because my friend's dad had a S4 and the IC pipes never got near the
temps mine do.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

- -Brad
 97 VR-4
 13.505 @ 103.63

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Intercooler Piping

Wow!  Sorry to hear about all those hassles!

How hard would it be to get a tubing bender, a brazing torch, some flux
and rods, and set to work making your own intercoolers from a couple
discarded heater cores?  Just a thought!!

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Richard L. Barron wrote:

> Even worse is my situation in which I bought the IHI turbo kit with
> front mount and IC piping. Absolutely nothing that was manufactured by
> DN was done correctly from the header gasket, pipe doesn't mate
> correctly and really cheapo stuff to hold the connections together. Also
> part of the piping is partially cutting off radiator hose to radiator.
> Did I mention that the whole front turbo has to be altered to fit. Oh,
> and the braket to mount to the intake manifold is off by about a couple
> of inches so can't be used. The headers kit is off by 3 inches so that I
> had to have an extender to the cat added so that the kit mated with the
> downpipe. The front mount brackets are so poorly manufactured that only
> 2 can be used. Siggh, after all of this I can only boost to about 7 psi
> right now until the piping is on better. Don't even ask how much this
> cost.
>
> Rich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Bradford J. Gay
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Intercooler Piping
>
> After doing one pass or just driving hard, my DN Performance intercooler
> pipes are a bit hotter than I think IC pipes should be.  Am I the only
> one experiencing this, or are hot IC pipes a common thing?  I ask this
> because my friend's dad had a S4 and the IC pipes never got near the
> temps mine do.  Any ideas?  Thanks.
>
> -Brad
>  97 VR-4
>  13.505 @ 103.63

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #880
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