Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, June 20
2002 Volume 01 : Number
875
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:57:33 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Sprak plugs
Just pulled all of my plugs. Since I have no idea in
what to look for, I
just took lots of pictures and threw them up on the web.
If anyone has
the time to take a look and tell me what they see, I'd
appreciate it.
http://www.msu.edu/user/pedenkoa/vr4/index.htmlThe
car is a '95 vr4 with 75k. It was all stock until a few weeks ago
when I put
in a blitz SBC-iD. To the best of my knowledge, the plugs
haven't been
changed yet. I just put in NGK double platinums @ 0.032".
Thanks,
Alex.
P.S. Sorry for the dirty fingers :)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:21:56
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Sprak plugs
They all look good except for the excessive gap --- how many
miles on
the plugs. They should be a light tan color, the black is probably a
small
amount of oil burning. They just look like high milage
plugs.
Jim
Berry
==================================================
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:06:00
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Sprak plugs
Show us all 6 next to each other at a 45 degree
angle, kind of like this
http://www.msu.edu/user/pedenkoa/vr4/DSC00316.JPG.
The ceramic isolators
all should be of the same color. If you find a much
lighter plug - it is
leaner than others, you might have a clogged injector.
I had one lighter
plug, that is why I upgraded the injectors, even though I
did not plan to
do it that day.
Philip
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:12:01
-0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Brembo rotors
What is the general consensus on Brembo rotors,
they seem almost too cheap
for comfort. However they seem to be a fairly
large name, as I've seen them
on several cars put in mags (Even though most
of those cars are all show and
no go). Anyone have problems with them warping
easily or anything. My stock
rotors are warped, and I decided I'll replace
them rather they rotate them.
So I'm either going with these or going to join
the group buy for rotors on
3SI. Anyone want to help me decide?
Donald
Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member #4909
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:17:55
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brembo rotors
Brembo is nothing more than a well recognized
name..with pretty good
quality.
I have stacks of cracked brembo
drilled rotors in my garage from many
sales W/installation ive done here at
the house. Theyre not infallable.
PF had a good supply of VR4
rotors, then had issues (which everyone here
quickly reported)..which caused
PF to quickly change vendors. Product
quality shifts in any market..and
the latest vendor has been 100%
reliable.
But like I said..drill
anyones rotor, and you'll fail it.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of
cars..and race them all. Dont you?
Got Brakes? I've got
savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at
http://www.speedtoys.com-
---
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:18:07
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Sprak plugs
Agreed. These all look very good for 75k
miles. You must be more
gentle with the car than most. =)
What is the gap on them now? I
think I remember mine were near 0.050"
or even 0.055" on one when I
changed them at 60k.
Also, a pair of
Mechanix gloves from Pep Boys saves your hands from lots
of grime and makes
the pictures look "professional." <smirk>
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4 with 95k miles
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Pedenko
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 23:58
The car is a '95 vr4 with
75k. It was all stock until a few weeks ago
when I put in a blitz SBC-iD. To
the best of my knowledge, the plugs
haven't been changed yet. I just put in
NGK double platinums @ 0.032".
P.S. Sorry for the dirty fingers
:)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:17:58
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Interior Trouble
"BISHI"?
Don't you mean "BITCHI"? As in
Mit-su-bitch-ee.
Vinny was selling a cure for a while. He still has some
tips listed.
http://www.ecanfix.com/~doordoctor/Jeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: Mark Waller
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st Sent:
Wednesday, June 19, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: Team3S: Interior
Trouble
Does anyone have the same problem with their interior as I have?
My doors and
back panels are getting hot air underneath and bubbling up
everywhere! I guess
I`ll have to take ``BISHI'' to a upholstery shop if no
one has a good idea to
fix this problem.Rest in peace,fallen warrior.Mark-94
3000GT
- --- Mark Waller
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:26:29
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Sprak plugs
For Alex and others that "have no idea in what to
look for" when "reading" the
appearance of spark plugs, the following web
pages should help.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/faq/faqread2.asphttp://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.htmlhttp://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkchart.htmhttp://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
To:
"'Team3S'" <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
June 19, 2002 9:57 PM
Subject: Team3S: Sprak plugs
Just pulled all of
my plugs. Since I have no idea in what to look for <snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:44:24
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
what do you mean cheap? are you talking
stock sizes? turning rotors is a
lot cheaper than replacing
them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Ashby III
[SMTP:dashbyiii@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 1:12
AM
> To: team3s
> Subject: Team3S: Brembo rotors
>
>
What is the general consensus on Brembo rotors, they seem almost too
cheap
> for comfort. However they seem to be a fairly large name, as I've
seen
> them
> on several cars put in mags (Even though most of those
cars are all show
> and
> no go). Anyone have problems with them
warping easily or anything. My
> stock
> rotors are warped, and I
decided I'll replace them rather they rotate
> them.
> So I'm either
going with these or going to join the group buy for rotors
> on
>
3SI. Anyone want to help me decide?
> Donald Ashby
> '93 3000GT
VR-4
> Member #4909
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:51:39
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
Its only cheaper if the rotors can be turned,
the fact of the matter is very
few places check RUN OUT of the rotor.
Checking the run out tells you how much the rotor must be turned in
order to
remove and warpage of the rotor if this amount of lathing will put
the rotor
under acceptable tolerances then your best bet is to trash the
rotor and get
a new one.
If you really want to get fancy with
turning rotors and flywheels try having
them centerless ground, when machined
in this manner the tolerances of
accuracy are even closer.
Russ
F
CT
"I may not know alot but Lance Wolrab is my answer guy"
Quote from Dan P
off of the SO-Cal MKIV list
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:20:20
-0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <
Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Springs for a Spyder
I'm looking to lower my 95 Vr-4 Spyder, and
my question is: The only
brand I can find that has springs for it is Ground
Control (Coil overs)
Anyone know of someone else? Also, I want to lower it 2
inches, will I
need a chamber correction kit? Or can the car be aligned with
that much
of a drop
Thanks!!
Curtis 95 Vr-4 Spyder
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:24:07
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
Only one problem there Chuck, you don't know
before hand if you need new
rotors or not...... I would rather know up
front that my planned $200 brake
job just went up to like $600
Also
only trust 3 people to work on my car, myself, my regular mechanic, and
one
of the mechanics from my buddies shop.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002
11:18 AM
> To: Furman, Russell; 'Donald Ashby III'; team3s
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
>
> really fancy machines turn
the rotors while they're still mounted on the
> vehicle ...
>
> turning it and the measuring minimum thickness is equivalent to
measuring
> runout, except you had to perform the grinding to get the
answer.
>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:45:14
-0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brembo rotors
Brembo rotors are like $35 each on NOPI. Stock
rotors from mitsu were quoted
as $135 each from my local mitsu dealer. Group
buy on 3SI is $210 for all 4
rotors, your choice of slottted/xdrilled or any
combination (or none)
website for the group buy is:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=84684&goto=newpostI
think I am going to get all around slotted.
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT
VR-4
Member #4909
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles
E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
"'Donald Ashby III'" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>;
"team3s"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo
rotors
> what do you mean cheap? are you talking stock
sizes? turning rotors is a
> lot cheaper than replacing
them.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Donald
Ashby III [SMTP:dashbyiii@earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 20,
2002 1:12 AM
> > To: team3s
> > Subject: Team3S: Brembo
rotors
> >
> > What is the general consensus on Brembo rotors,
they seem almost too
cheap
> > for comfort. However they seem to be
a fairly large name, as I've seen
> > them
> > on several cars
put in mags (Even though most of those cars are all show
> >
and
> > no go). Anyone have problems with them warping easily or
anything. My
> > stock
> > rotors are warped, and I decided
I'll replace them rather they rotate
> > them.
> > So I'm
either going with these or going to join the group buy for rotors
> >
on
> > 3SI. Anyone want to help me decide?
> > Donald
Ashby
> > '93 3000GT VR-4
> > Member #4909
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:59:30
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brembo rotors
My Very Honest Opinion.
Porterfield uses
Brembo cores for 99% of thier stock.
VR4 rotors..are not
Brembo.
You can make guesses as to why they dont use Brembo, but as a
company who
lives & dies by thier hardware quality..they must have pretty
good
reasons.
Dont ever purchase anything..solely upon the
branding. Brakes, cars,
stereos..anything. Dont even belive Porterfield
is infallible(sp),
research is the consumers best friend.
-
---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all. Dont
you?
Got Brakes? I've got savings!
Porterfield parts
catalog online now at
http://www.speedtoys.com-
---
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:02:57
-0700
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brembo rotors
Hi Don: Say, if you can get all four rotors,
front and rear, for 210 then
count me in. My fronts are in need of replacing
anyway.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Ashby
III" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
To:
"team3s" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo rotors
|
Brembo rotors are like $35 each on NOPI. Stock rotors from mitsu
were
quoted
| as $135 each from my local mitsu dealer. Group buy on 3SI is
$210 for all
4
| rotors, your choice of slottted/xdrilled or any
combination (or none)
| website for the group buy is:
|
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=84684&goto=newpost|
I think I am going to get all around slotted.
| Donald Ashby
| '93 3000GT
VR-4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:17:39
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
really fancy machines turn the rotors while
they're still mounted on the
vehicle ...
turning it and the measuring
minimum thickness is equivalent to measuring
runout, except you had to
perform the grinding to get the answer.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:24:52
-0700
From: "Jamie Marzonie" <
jsmarzonie@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: '91 Stealth 1st time out....
The Place... Sac Raceway... HOT
nasty air... 15.2 1st run ever... arrgh!
It's hot and all... so I dial in
a 15.1..
So I'm at the line... and old Cougar has a 15.1 dial in as
well...then the
best run I think the car could ever have happend...
I
got a 1.93x 60ft. time.. and broke out like mad with a 14.63x!!
Fortunately the cougar beat me.. meaning he broke out even more!! So I
win!
I got killed in the Semi finals... forgot to switch the
suspension to
sport.. DOH!!
All in all.. for a 2 ton stock whale
300hp 5 spd w/ 18" chrome wheels...
I'll take a 14.6!!!
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:34:56
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: clutch
Hey all,
I just bled my clutch and now it feels
like butter and it sticks
- - I push it in, and it won't come out, at least
not quickly. The
reservoir is full of motul, so the fluid level seems okay.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Alex.
P.S. I finished the 60k today,
and it started! Woohoo! Thanks to
everybody for their
help...
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:33:31
-0700 (PDT)
From: glenn amy <
glenn_amy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Best sized wheels..and now circumference
> Myself, Id rather
be autoxing on 40-45series profile
> race tires on 15s
> than on
35-40series 17s..as an example.
>
> On sidewall stiffness. A
sidewall -can- be too
> stiff for racing.
>
I'm looking at
the goodyear racing tire page:
http://www.racegoodyear.com/race_tires.htmlIf
I'm doing the math right, the Eagle Sports Car
Radial G19 are about 35 series
tires. Yes, math is
involved as the tires are not listed the same way
as
passenger tires.
Glenn
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:58:42
-0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Air conditioning woes
I have a '97 SL. Last year the air
worked perfectly. This year it seems
like the vent is on.
I
looked and you can see the fluid moving around in the site glass so
the
compressor is engaging. The air is slightly cool.
I have a set of
134R gauges, but I don't know what the correct readings
should be to see if
there is enough in there.
I've messed with the relays and no
change. The relay is for turning the
compressor on and off and there is
only one right?
Is the door for diverting the air through the condenser
vacuum controlled?
Any ideas?
What levels should the gauges be at
while testing the system?
Thanks,
Rich
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:27:57
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
exactly what I said, but turning each rotor
should cost only about $15, and
my O'Reilly's doesn't charge if the turning
fails to remove the warpage
because of MIN TH.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Furman, Russell
[SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:24
AM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; 'Donald Ashby III'; team3s
> Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
>
> Only one problem there Chuck, you
don't know before hand if you need new
> rotors or not...... I would
rather know up front that my planned $200
> brake
> job just went up
to like $600
>
> Also only trust 3 people to work on my car,
myself, my regular mechanic,
> and
> one of the mechanics from my
buddies shop.
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:51:36
-0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Team3S: Update (Re: Acceleration enrichment)
Well, I think I set up my
S-AFC for the Denso 550 ccm injectors. If you
remember, I had a major
hesitation and very lean condition during first
1-2 seconds of hard
acceleration. Making mixture richer at Low Throttle
and leaner at Hi Throttle
fixed it. It is kind of counter-intuitive at
first, but it worked. I guess
those bigger injectors flow not that much
more if cycled at shorter duty
cycles. The voltage drop is still there but
at least it is not accompanied by
a major hesitation now. I might rig up
some piece of electronics to get rid
of that drop if I have time.
It runs well and the driveability is almost
as good as stock, although I
might need to lean it out a little at WOT to get
more punch.
My current settings are -23% at Hi Throttle and -18% at Low
Throttle.
Hi Throttle is 0% to 40% and Low Throttle is 85% to 100%.
I
am getting 0.89V - 0.93V O2 sensor readings at WOT.
These 550 ccm
injectors are already running at over 80% duty cycle at only
0.9 bar. I am
wondering if will have to upgrade again if I want to run
more
boost.
Philip
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:29:42
-0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Contact Patch Revealed?
Of particular note in last months issue
of Grassroots Motorsports was an
amazing response to a question posed to a
performance tire specialist. The
question was the old contraversial
`if, in general, coefficient of friction
is independent of contact area, why
are wider tires better?' The response
caught me off guard. He
started by saying that a narrower tire will have a
contact area nearly equal
to a wider tire. The narrow tire deflects along
the circumference of
the tire while a wide tire deflects along the width.
They both yield nearly
equal contact areas. As an example, imagine a wide,
low profile tire
with an infinitely stiff sidewall. The contact patch would
be limited
to a single thin line. Sidewall deflection plays a large roll in
contact
area. It would seem that the location of the contact area is
more
important than the amount of contact area, i.e. a wider tire produces
more
contact area perpendicular to the car centerline. I wander what
else they
don't want us to understand?
;-)
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:02:31
-0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <
Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Lowering my Spyder
Sorry this was sent in the wrong format last
time.
I am looking to lower my 95 Vr-4 spyder and only know of Ground
Controls
that make them for the Spyder. I want to lower the car 2 inches or
as
much as I can without having to adjust the chamber, and just wanted
to
see my options.
Thanks
Curtis 95 Vr-4 Spyder
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:07:43
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Update (Re: Acceleration enrichment)
> My current settings
are -23% at Hi Throttle and -18% at Low Throttle.
> Hi Throttle is 0% to
40% and Low Throttle is 85% to 100%.
Your SAFC settings look like
settings for 450cc injectors. How old are your
injectors and when was
the last time you cleaned them?
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
Apexi AVC-R,
Apexi SAFC, K&N Filter, DN Downpipe, Custom 3" cat back, high
flow cat,
Walboro 341 fuel pump, Stillen cross drilled rotors, 3SX SS
braided brake
lines and gutted pre-cats.
Soon to come in next 2 weeks:
DSM 450 cc
injectors, Direct Hits ignition system, a front exhaust manifold
that doesn't
have a *&^#@! crack in it.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:03:46
-0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Update (Re: Acceleration enrichment)
Yes, that was my concern
too. I bought them used to save some money (only
2,000 miles, I was told).
Guess now I need to spend some money to verify
that I bought what I thought I
did. And to flow-match them as well.
And a fuel pressure gauge won't
hurt. I might just buy a sending unit
only, see if I can connect it in some
easy place, and hook it up to my
data acquisition.
BTW, I made a typo.
It should have read: "LO Throttle is 0% to 40% and HI
Throttle is 85% to
100%."
Philip
- ------------------------------------
>
My current settings are -23% at Hi Throttle and -18% at Low Throttle.
> Hi
Throttle is 0% to 40% and Low Throttle is 85% to 100%.
Your SAFC settings
look like settings for 450cc injectors. How old are
your
injectors
and when was the last time you cleaned them?
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:18:16
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo rotors
Once upon a time, I bought a replacement front
rotor for my son's VR4 from
the predecessor to O'Reilly stores here.
They picked out a rotor for a
Dodge Stealth TT, which turned out to be
manufactured by Brembo and made in
Italy. I was curious whether Dodge
was getting their rotors fomr a
different source than Mitsu.
I am real
suspicious of such an extremely low price - it sounds almost too
good to be
true! especially when he is quoting all models all years front
and back same
price same group deal.
This could be a terrific deal or a terrific
scam. Until I have some faith
in somebody fronting these, I will hang
onto my money.
Chuck
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:16:46
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Update (Re: Acceleration enrichment)
> Yes, that was my
concern too. I bought them used to save some money (only
> 2,000 miles, I
was told). Guess now I need to spend some money to verify
> that I bought
what I thought I did. And to flow-match them as well.
I just looked at my
stock 360 injectors and my new 450's. All 12 of them
have their size
stamped on them. Looking at the connector, on the left side
of the
injector has a couple of letters and then the size. My injectors
are
all mitsubishi injectors. I don't know what kind of injectors you
have or
even if they are identified this way.
Doug
92 Stealth RT
TT
Apexi AVC-R, Apexi SAFC, K&N Filter, DN Downpipe, Custom 3" cat back,
high
flow cat, Walboro 341 fuel pump, Stillen cross drilled rotors, 3SX
SS
braided brake lines and gutted pre-cats.
Soon to come in next 2
weeks:
DSM 450 cc injectors, Direct Hits ignition system, a front exhaust
manifold
that doesn't have a *&^#@! crack in it.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:24:28
-0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Contact Patch Revealed?
Hmm. That's interesting. That is
assuming you would run the same tire
pressure if you buy tires that are much
wider. But you would not, most
likely, and you do not want to. All those drag
racers barely run any
pressure at all in those huge tires that they use. They
can afford to run
low pressures because of a large contact patch. Their tires
are huge and
soft, almost like those inner tubes that are used for
tobogganing or in
swimming pools.
The coefficient of friction is
independent of contact area only
theoretically. Theoretically, you can never
exceed 1G in a car. In
practice, however, friction increases because you hook
up to more crevices
in asphalt. And hooking up to crevices is a longitudinal
force, not
vertical. Additionally, you could run a softer compound that gets
into
those crevices even deeper. Thus, more friction.
Philip
-
------------------------------------------------
Of particular note in
last months issue of Grassroots Motorsports was an
amazing response to a
question posed to a performance tire specialist. The
question was the old
contraversial `if, in general, coefficient of
friction
is independent of
contact area, why are wider tires better?' The response
caught me off
guard. He started by saying that a narrower tire will have
a
contact
area nearly equal to a wider tire. The narrow tire deflects along
the
circumference of the tire while a wide tire deflects along the width.
They
both yield nearly equal contact areas. As an example, imagine
a
wide,
low profile tire with an infinitely stiff sidewall. The
contact patch
would
be limited to a single thin line. Sidewall deflection
plays a large roll
in
contact area. It would seem that the location
of the contact area is more
important than the amount of contact area, i.e. a
wider tire produces more
contact area perpendicular to the car
centerline. I wander what else they
don't want us to understand?
;-)
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:43:30
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Contact Patch Revealed?
> Hmm. That's interesting. That is
assuming you would run the same tire
> pressure if you buy tires that are
much wider. But you would not, most
> likely, and you do not want to. All
those drag racers barely run any
> pressure at all in those huge tires
that they use. They can afford to run
> low pressures because of a large
contact patch. Their tires are huge and
> soft, almost like those inner
tubes that are used for tobogganing or in
> swimming pools.
-
---
Although with such a large tire you dont need as much air, thats
still an inaccurate description of what a full-on drag slick does
and
what air pressure has to do with it.
When the wheel start to
rotate, it rotates a small percentage faster than
the tire will at the
ground. This causes the tire sidewall to ripple..and
the diameter of
the tire decreases. Now..what happens then is after the
tire leaves
contact with the ground it accelerates quickly..AND is further
flung out from
the wheel by centrifical force while at the same time the
tire is going
slower at the leading point of contact with the ground.
This causes the
quicker and WIDER part of the tire to slap down on the
ground with tremendous
force a number of inches ahead of where you would
expect the "normal" tire
contact patch to be. The "new" contact patch is
centered way forward of
the wheel centerline...the drive wheels are
literally climbing uphill on top
of thier own rubber.
The huge slap down of the tire..combined with the
now much longer (front
to rear) contact patch, is the only way these huge
monsters get the amount
of traction that they do.
They end up with a
monstrously long patch, with thousands of pounds of
additional downforce on
the patch on TOP of the weight of the vehicle from
the velocity of the
accelerating tire coming down.
> The coefficient of friction is
independent of contact area only
> theoretically. Theoretically, you can
never exceed 1G in a car. In
> practice, however, friction increases
because you hook up to more crevices
> in asphalt. And hooking up to
crevices is a longitudinal force, not
> vertical. Additionally, you could
run a softer compound that gets into
> those crevices even deeper. Thus,
more friction.
- ---
You forgot to add in weight. THis is why street
ricer suspensions can
suck at actual racing.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:27:28
-0400
From: HigherBeing <
scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Head Gasket Question. Quick Responses..
Ok to make this short and
sweet. I have the head off my car replacing 2 bent
intake valves. Here is the
qustion..
Head gasket from dealer is 3 ply gasket. which i have on my
front head as of
now becasue of a bent rod incident.
Fel-Pro head
gasket is 2 ply,, but seems same thickness as dealer gasket.
Worried that
if the Fel-pro gasket is thinner,, this will change my
compression,, or at
least be alittle different from the front head,, no?
Which to use? should
i use dealer becasue of front head having 3 ply or wil
lit be safe to run the
Fel-Pro gasket.
Dealer 55 dollars,, Fel-pro,, 32 dollars,, dealer 4 to 6
days,, Fel-pro,,
can get it right now.. so please answer quick for i am in
the process of
getting the head back on tomorrow.
thanks,
Jerry. 93
Stealth RT/TT & 92 Stealth E/S
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:01:35
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Lowering my Spyder
The only coilover setup for a 1995 VR-4 is
the Tein HA unless by some
miracle Ground Control fits without having to cut
springs. I did
research on this a while back and have the email if
anyone is
interested.
Lowering is one thing. Maintaining correct
angles, degrees, stiffness,
etc. is another. If all you want to do is
slam it then don't come to
me. If you are looking for stock ride height
and lowering ability that
allows the car to be aligned correctly then I might
have an email or
three you can review.
The only setup for coilovers
for my (non-Spyder) 1995 VR-4 though is the
Tein HA. I think these are
being sold for the unbelievably low price of
around $1,400 shipped.
Several places sell this now but the last I saw
was
http://groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=5798.
-
--Flash!
www.schilberg.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: Curtis McConnell
Sent: Thursday, June 20,
2002 18:03
I am looking to lower my 95 Vr-4 spyder and only know of
Ground Controls
that make them for the Spyder. I want to lower the car 2
inches or as
much as I can without having to adjust the chamber, and just
wanted to
see my options.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:33:12
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Lowering my Spyder
John -- I'm addressing the list with your
question to me.
He asked if this is true for only 1995 or all second gen
and then how
about first gen?
I think first gen can use almost anyhing
(go to Eibach, Ground Control,
etc. and it will say "1991 up to 1995 not
including power sunroof").
The 1995 VR-4 has the power sunroof so I am
SOL.
Anyone else care to chime in?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.schilberg.comDarren Schilberg
wrote:
>
> The only coilover setup for a 1995 VR-4 is the Tein HA
unless by some
> miracle Ground Control fits without having to cut
springs. I did
> research on this a while back and have the email
if anyone is
> interested.
>
> Lowering is one thing.
Maintaining correct angles, degrees,
> stiffness, etc. is another.
If all you want to do is slam it then
> don't come to me. If you
are looking for stock ride height and
> lowering ability that allows the
car to be aligned correctly then I
> might have an email or three you can
review.
>
> The only setup for coilovers for my (non-Spyder) 1995
VR-4 though is
> the Tein HA. I think these are being sold for the
unbelievably low
> price of around $1,400 shipped. Several places
sell this now but the
> last I saw was
http://groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=5798.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:37:40
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Contact Patch Revealed?
Contact patch is determined by the weight of the
vehicle and the air
pressure in the tire. High pressure equal small patch low
pressure
equal larger patch. The weight of the car is supported by the
patch
and air pressure pushing outward on the patch.
Book sez --- high
pressures on a race tire make for a better feeling
ride, turn in is better
and overall response is better, however, lower
pressures result in a larger
contact patch and as a result better
traction and better lap times [ within
reason of course ]. If you're
not driving at the limit lowering the pressure
won't help and may
in fact hurt your
times.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
To:
"Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>; <>
Sent:
Thursday, June 20, 2002 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Contact Patch
Revealed?
>
> Hmm. That's interesting. That is assuming you
would run the same tire
> pressure if you buy tires that are much wider.
But you would not, most
> likely, and you do not want to. All those drag
racers barely run any
> pressure at all in those huge tires that they use.
They can afford to run
> low pressures because of a large contact patch.
Their tires are huge and
> soft, almost like those inner tubes that are
used for tobogganing or in
> swimming pools.
>
> The
coefficient of friction is independent of contact area only
>
theoretically. Theoretically, you can never exceed 1G in a car. In
>
practice, however, friction increases because you hook up to more
crevices
> in asphalt. And hooking up to crevices is a longitudinal force,
not
> vertical. Additionally, you could run a softer compound that gets
into
> those crevices even deeper. Thus, more friction.
>
>
Philip
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Of particular note in last months issue of Grassroots Motorsports was
an
> amazing response to a question posed to a performance tire
specialist. The
> question was the old contraversial `if, in general,
coefficient of
> friction
> is independent of contact area, why are
wider tires better?' The response
> caught me off guard. He
started by saying that a narrower tire will have
> a
> contact area
nearly equal to a wider tire. The narrow tire deflects along
> the
circumference of the tire while a wide tire deflects along the width.
>
They both yield nearly equal contact areas. As an example, imagine
a
> wide,
> low profile tire with an infinitely stiff
sidewall. The contact patch
> would
> be limited to a single
thin line. Sidewall deflection plays a large roll
> in
> contact
area. It would seem that the location of the contact area is more
>
important than the amount of contact area, i.e. a wider tire produces
more
> contact area perpendicular to the car centerline. I wander
what else they
> don't want us to understand? ;-)
>
>
Regards,
> DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:42:27
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Lowering my Spyder
FWIW here is my old email. It will not
be in the archive unless I
pasted it to the list before. This topic was
on the 3S-Racers list at
the time.
- --Flash!
www.schilberg.com- -----Original
Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002
00:34
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.comSubject: RE:
3S-Racers: Tein suspension
I can't believe it is that cheap. How
long will it last (6 months or
just 1 or 2) before they get the summer bulk
of kids prepping the cars
and raise it to $1,700?
Also, does anyone
know if Tein is open to a higher spring rate as a
custom job or do they not
do that yet? I know they are smaller diameter
than stock but as long as
you call ... say ... Eibach and feed them the
spring ID, OD, number of turns,
etc. then they should be able to
hand-make one (albeit at a higher price) but
this would then be the best
of both worlds.
And Jim Berry ... I'm
still looking for someone with a 95 and power
sunroof to say that any
coilover EXCEPT the Tein HA fits perfectly
off-the-shelf. Look below
for what I found in all the main catalogs for
coilovers for our
car.
www.eibach.com
1991-1999 3000GT Base (2WD) (Exc. '95> w/ electric sunroof)
Pro-Kit 1.5" front 1.3" rear P/N 2813.140
1991-1999 3000GT VR-4 (AWD) (Exc. Spyder & '95> with
sunroof)
Pro-Kit 1.3" front 1.3" rear P/N
2811.140
1991-1999 3000GT SL (2WD) (Exc. Base model &
'95> w/sunroof)
Pro-Kit 1.0" front 1.2"
rear P/N2810.140
www.tirerack.com There are no
results found for a 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
www.tokicogasshocks.com
Only cars listed are Eclipse, Galant, and Starion.
www.addco.net 1991-1996
Mitsubishi 3000GT (2WD) (which sounds a lot like they
copied
the Dodge Stealth line since the 3000GT was mostly unchanged
in
suspension to 1999 but the Stealth was no longer made after 1996).
www.intraxsuspension.com
Sorry, There are no coilovers for a 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
www.koni-na.com Only cars
listed are Eclipse, Galant, and Mirage.
www.hrsprings.com (Springs
only I think but this is listed under the Coilover section
and
I don't understand how the 2WD in the first or second line can
include the turbo)
1991-99 3000GT (2WD) base
model incl turbo
1.0" front
1.0" rear P/N 52977 $329
1991-1999
3000GT (2WD) not base model incl
turbo
1.0" front 1.0" rear
P/N 52980 $329
1991-1999 3000GT VR-4
(4WD)
1.0" front 1.0" rear
P/N 52981 $329
www.tein.com 1991-1998 3000GT
VR-4 (listed in previous emails here but at least
they admit
they can fit my car)
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and power sunroof ...
unlucky in every regard
- -----Original Message-----
From: bob
atkins
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 23:23
It's a full set
for all four corners
g8rbob
- ----------
>From: "Darren
Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
>To:
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
>
Does the Tein HA (
http://www.tein.com/hadamp.html) come
for all four
> corners you said? I can't tell from the picture which
shows two
springs
> but says 4 main springs, etc.
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: bob atkins
> Sent: Wednesday,
February 13, 2002 22:19
>
> Darren,
> The stock HA set for our
cars has
> 12.0 kgf/mm or 671 lbs/in front main springs with 1.9 kgf/mm
helper
> springs 8.0 kgf/mm or 448 lbs/in rear main springs with 1.6
kgf/mm
> helper springs
>
> There are main spring options for
the front at 9.0, 10.0, and 14.0 and
> main spring options for the rears
at 6.0, 7.0, 9.0, and 10.0 available
> from TEIN.
>
> MSRP
w/ Pillow Mounts is $1490 per
www.tein.com - I
got mine for $1500
> from Titan Motorsports - Orlando
www.titanmotorsports.com - ask for
a
> guy named
> "bottle' and tell him I sent ya.
>
>
I have spent a bit of time relating my Japanese/English (not much)
>
instructions with the websites. You might also use the
english
version
> of
>
www.tein.co.jp for
reference.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:54:53
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Anybody know what makes a tire DOT
legal --- from a racer's perspective
that is. The Hoosiers I run
probably have 1/64" or less of tread depth. The
sidewalls are very stiff and
the tires are very lightweight.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/ho_rad.jspThat
tire is obviously not street legal but for some reason it's called DOT
legal
for showroom stock use.
Jim
Berry
================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "cody" <
overclck@ies.net>
To: <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Thursday, June 20, 2002 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires,
Tires
> So long as a tire has 3/32's depth across three (if three or
less, than
> all of the) treadwear indicators, it is considered street
legal, so long
> as no other problems are seen with the tires - meaning
separations,
> bubbles, or steel belt showing...
>
>
-Cody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com
[mailto:owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com]
> On Behalf Of bob atkins
>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:59 PM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
>
> Just last week a woman in a
significant injury accident here in Central
> Florida was charged with
"faulty equipment - badly worn tires"
>
> g8rbob - '99 VR-4
>
> ----------
> >From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
> >To:
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
>
>Subject: RE: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
> >Date: Thu, Jun 20,
2002, 8:13 AM
> >
>
> > I don't think it matters what
the tread is like when you receive it
> but
> > when it is
sold. People drive around on bologna skin tires that used
>
to
> > have 8/32" of tread that are DOT legal (or were). But I'm
sure if a
> cop
> > pulls you over and is looking for his
commission for the month that he
> > will try to spot no seatbelt, bald
tires, no exhaust, etc.
> >
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: fastmax
> > Sent: Thursday, June 20,
2002 00:11
> >
> > Not sure how to answer that --- the
following link shows a picture of
> > the Hoosier. They say 4/32" of
tread but the grooves are probably less
> > than 1/64" --- when I get
them they have almost no grooves other than
> > the one
> >
that runs the circumference of the tire. I'm not sure what constitutes
>
> DOT legal but what is described as a tread pattern is almost
> >
non-existent
> >
> >
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/ho_rad.jsp***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:06:50
-0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: Head Gasket Question. Quick Responses..
Or you could spend 64.00
and get both gaskets and not worry about it.
I wouldn't worry about it
myself unless you plan on getting into
modifications and serious
HP.
That sounds like a good price for the head gaskets. Where are
you getting
them from?
Rich
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"HigherBeing" <
scorpman@optonline.net>
To:
"Team3S" <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Thursday,
June 20, 2002 8:27 PM
Subject: Team3S: Head Gasket Question. Quick
Responses..
> Ok to make this short and sweet. I have the head off my
car replacing 2
bent
> intake valves. Here is the
qustion..
>
> Head gasket from dealer is 3 ply gasket. which i have
on my front head as
of
> now becasue of a bent rod
incident.
>
> Fel-Pro head gasket is 2 ply,, but seems same
thickness as dealer gasket.
>
> Worried that if the Fel-pro gasket
is thinner,, this will change my
> compression,, or at least be alittle
different from the front head,, no?
>
> Which to use? should i use
dealer becasue of front head having 3 ply or
wil
> lit be safe to run
the Fel-Pro gasket.
>
> Dealer 55 dollars,, Fel-pro,, 32 dollars,,
dealer 4 to 6 days,, Fel-pro,,
> can get it right now.. so please answer
quick for i am in the process of
> getting the head back on
tomorrow.
>
> thanks,
> Jerry. 93 Stealth RT/TT & 92
Stealth E/S
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:15:58
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Its basically..a tire that
meets DOT regulations for a new passenger tire.
SCCA also states that a
RACE tire is a tire with a treadwear rating under
60.
D60-M2's used to
be killer tires for stock class on street tires.
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002,
fastmax wrote:
> Anybody know what makes a tire DOT legal ---
from a racer's perspective
> that is. The Hoosiers I run probably have
1/64" or less of tread depth. The
> sidewalls are very stiff and the
tires are very lightweight.
>
>
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/ho_rad.jsp>
> That tire is obviously not street legal but for some reason it's called
DOT
> legal for showroom stock use.
>
> Jim Berry
-
---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all. Dont
you?
Got Brakes? I've got savings!
Porterfield parts
catalog online now at
http://www.speedtoys.com-
---
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:07:36
-0400
From: HigherBeing <
scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Head Gasket Question. Quick Responses..
I am all ready into
some serious HP and modifications. I am pushing around
575 horse. twin Turbo
and all the goodies. that is why I am asking the list
what i should
do.
I am getting the gaskets from the dealer. I work at a shop so I
get
everything at list price. And I only need one
gasket.
Thanks.
Jerry
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
To: "Team3S"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:06 PM
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Head Gasket Question.
Quick Responses..
> Or you could spend 64.00 and get both gaskets and
not worry about it.
>
> I wouldn't worry about it myself unless you
plan on getting into
> modifications and serious HP.
>
> That
sounds like a good price for the head gaskets. Where are you
getting
> them from?
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:13:48
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
I don't see anything about the Hoosier
that would allow it to be used
as a passanger car tire --- other than the
fact that it's round and
black.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Its basically..a tire that meets DOT regulations for a new passenger
tire.
>
> SCCA also states that a RACE tire is a tire with a
treadwear rating under
> 60.
>
> D60-M2's used to be killer
tires for stock class on street tires.
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2002,
fastmax wrote:
>
> > Anybody know what makes a tire DOT
legal --- from a racer's perspective
> > that is. The Hoosiers I
run probably have 1/64" or less of tread depth. The
> > sidewalls are
very stiff and the tires are very lightweight.
> >
> >
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/ho_rad.jsp>
>
> > That tire is obviously not street legal but for some reason
it's called DOT
> > legal for showroom stock use.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:27:14
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Didnt see it
where?
When its NEW, its legal.
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, fastmax
wrote:
> I don't see anything about the Hoosier that would allow it to
be used
> as a passanger car tire --- other than the fact that it's round
and black.
>
> Jim
Berry
- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.
Dont you?
Got Brakes? I've got savings!
Porterfield parts
catalog online now at
http://www.speedtoys.com-
---
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:24:18
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Not a chance ---- 1/64" of tread is not
street legal anyplace I know.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/ho_rad.jspLook
at the picture and tell me what a CHP officer would
say.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:38:17
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Fact remains. It has
two measurable LEGAL valleys on it.
It is most certainly a USDOT legal
street tire.
Whether or not you do that..isnt Hoosier's problem.
-
---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all. Dont
you?
Got Brakes? I've got savings!
Porterfield parts
catalog online now at
http://www.speedtoys.com-
---
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:38:08
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Tires,Tires, Tires
Then that gets back to my origional
queston --- what makes it DOT legal.
Where does the "two measurable legal
valleys" come from. I was under the
impression that the Department Of
Transportation was interested in street
tires for passanger cars not just
round black things that hold
air.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#875
***************************************
