Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Monday, June 17 2002     Volume 01 : Number 872




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:41:27 -0700
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Subject: Team3S: Stock Boost

What is the stock boost in our cars?  I'm hearing 9psi for 1G and 11psi
for 2G and then I have another guy claiming much lower numbers.  Help me
out here.

- -Brad
1997 Caracas Red VR-4
1999 Front End, Headlights & Spoiler, 19" Axis Se7en wheels wrapped with
Toyo T1-S Proxes 245/35ZR19, DN Performance Intercooler & Intake Pipes,
Magnecor KV85 Plug Wires, Blitz Supersound BOV, Apex'i AVC-R, BOZZ Speed
Dual Cannon Exhaust, Indiglo Gauge Faces, GReddy Electronic Gauges,
Kenwood Z828 Receiver, 4-8" Diamond Audio Subwoofers powered by a
Eclipse 33230 amp & Boston Acoustic 6x9s

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 18:42:50 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <apedenko@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock Boost

You're right - 9/1g 12/2g

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:41 PM
To: Team3S; 3SRacers
Subject: Team3S: Stock Boost

What is the stock boost in our cars?  I'm hearing 9psi for 1G and 11psi
for 2G and then I have another guy claiming much lower numbers.  Help me
out here.

- -Brad
1997 Caracas Red VR-4
1999 Front End, Headlights & Spoiler, 19" Axis Se7en wheels wrapped with
Toyo T1-S Proxes 245/35ZR19, DN Performance Intercooler & Intake Pipes,
Magnecor KV85 Plug Wires, Blitz Supersound BOV, Apex'i AVC-R, BOZZ Speed
Dual Cannon Exhaust, Indiglo Gauge Faces, GReddy Electronic Gauges,
Kenwood Z828 Receiver, 4-8" Diamond Audio Subwoofers powered by a
Eclipse 33230 amp & Boston Acoustic 6x9s

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:48:35 -0700
From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k

Hi Alex,

When I did the Timing belt on my JSpec (to gain the warranty) - I had the
front Exhaust cam "SpringBack" rather violently - I thought for sure I was a
goner.  But some friends told me their experiences and none of them bent
valves, I too did not have any bent valves - so I think you are all right
with yours (there could be exceptions though - I did a compression test on
mine to make sure and it was fine).

Good Luck, Rick

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <apedenko@earthlink.net>
To: "'Team3S'" <team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: 60k

> Okay, I got the timing belt off, everything was great - all the timing
> marks were lined up, the sprockets didn't move when I took the belt off.
> Next thing I know, my hand slips while taking out the water pump, and
> hits the right-most sprocket causing it to move about 45 degrees. I
> didn't hit it that hard, it was more like it was perched at a very fine
> equilibrium and once I hit it, it just recoiled. I grabbed a socket and
> turned it back to the mark, where it stayed, and then upon my next
> fumble, the same thing happened. I'm rather apprehensive about turning
> one camshaft back and forth like this. I've left it where it is until I
> put the tbelt back on, but I'd like to know if I'm causing any damage by
> all this motion down there.
>
> One other question - the timing belt tensioner had some visible rust on
> the outside. I've long suspected that my water pump was leaking, but
> didn't see any coolant when I took off the covers. Is this a sign? Is
> the pump leaking?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex.
>
> '95 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 18:49:48 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k

Rust on that thing is normal, must be the type of metal, or lack of some
coating...  Anyways, the sprockets are ok to move some, no big deal...
Just don't let them hit the valves hit the pistons...  I'd say there is
absolutely nothing to worry about, go ahead with your things, and
finish...  Everything will be fine

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Alex Pedenko
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:29 PM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: Team3S: 60k

Okay, I got the timing belt off, everything was great - all the timing
marks were lined up, the sprockets didn't move when I took the belt off.
Next thing I know, my hand slips while taking out the water pump, and
hits the right-most sprocket causing it to move about 45 degrees. I
didn't hit it that hard, it was more like it was perched at a very fine
equilibrium and once I hit it, it just recoiled. I grabbed a socket and
turned it back to the mark, where it stayed, and then upon my next
fumble, the same thing happened. I'm rather apprehensive about turning
one camshaft back and forth like this. I've left it where it is until I
put the tbelt back on, but I'd like to know if I'm causing any damage by
all this motion down there.

One other question - the timing belt tensioner had some visible rust on
the outside. I've long suspected that my water pump was leaking, but
didn't see any coolant when I took off the covers. Is this a sign? Is
the pump leaking?

Thanks,

Alex.

'95 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:39:52 -0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Thanks to all and a quick question (AVCR)

 
Well I checked the piping and the waste gate solenoid and everything
looks to be perfect.  So is there anyway I can determine if one of the
turbos is shot and which one?  Like I said before, the transmission was
just replaced less then a month ago and it seemed to be working fine
before then.  Thanks for any info.
 
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 18:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Jet V-Force

Archive bait.

Junk product.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Desert Fox wrote:

> Anybody tried one of these Jet V-Force Power Control Modules? It is supposed
> to do ignition advance, spark optimization, etc...
>
> "V-Force (Imports)
>
> The JET V-Force Power Control Modules (PCM) uses the same computer tuning
> technology found in JETS popular domestic tuning products. A 20Mhz RISC
> microprocessor optimizes the ignition spark advance and recalibrates the
> fuel map for optimum horsepower and acceleration.
> Modified ignition curve!
> Recalibrated air/fuel ratio for maximum performance!
> Improved 1/4 mile E.T.S.!
> LED read out!
> On/Off override switch!"
>
> Advertised 25-30hp gain...
>
>
> --
> Paul/.
> 95 black 3000GT VR-4
> 98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
> formerly reasonable and prudent

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:53:31 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Borla exhaust

The sound on my 97 SL is nice. . but i of course want more power and a more
aggresive sound. It looks like my only option is the borla catback exhaust. 
Does any1 have this and recommend it? FOr almost 1000 dollars, is it worth it
or should i just wit till my stock exhaust system dies?

thanx
- -mike
97 SL

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:07:36 -0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock Boost

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Pedenko" <apedenko@earthlink.net>
To: "'Bradford J. Gay'" <bradfordjgay@charter.net>; "'Team3S'"
<team3s@team3s.com>; "'3SRacers'" <3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock Boost


> You're right - 9/1g 12/2g
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Bradford J. Gay
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:41 PM
> To: Team3S; 3SRacers
> Subject: Team3S: Stock Boost
>
> What is the stock boost in our cars?  I'm hearing 9psi for 1G and 11psi
> for 2G and then I have another guy claiming much lower numbers.  Help me
> out here.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -

There's a range that Mitsubishi deems "acceptable" when
testing.  My factory service manual for the 1st generation lists
(approx 2.9 - 8.7 psi) as acceptable range.  If rounding up one could
consider
the *max* pressure to be 9 psi.   Why anyone would only run
stock boost pressure is another question.

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:03:29 -0500
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Jet V-Force

Well put.
I would have to agree.....

At 06:06 PM 6/16/02 -0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Archive bait.
>
>Junk product.
>
>On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Desert Fox wrote:
>
> > Anybody tried one of these Jet V-Force Power Control Modules? It is
> supposed
> > to do ignition advance, spark optimization, etc...
> >
> > "V-Force (Imports)
> >
> > The JET V-Force Power Control Modules (PCM) uses the same computer tuning
> > technology found in JETS popular domestic tuning products. A 20Mhz RISC
> > microprocessor optimizes the ignition spark advance and recalibrates the
> > fuel map for optimum horsepower and acceleration.
> > Modified ignition curve!
> > Recalibrated air/fuel ratio for maximum performance!
> > Improved 1/4 mile E.T.S.!
> > LED read out!
> > On/Off override switch!"
> >
> > Advertised 25-30hp gain...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul/.
> > 95 black 3000GT VR-4
> > 98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
> > formerly reasonable and prudent

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:06:32 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...

I'm not sure what the magic amount is, but but I asked Matt Monet the same
question and he claims to have hundreds of runs with 110+ leaded and has
not had an O2 failure. It may have to do with a few gallons of leaded followed
by many gallons of unleaded ????

        Jim Berry
=====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Cc: <team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...

> Not now..no..but keep doing it..and bank on it.
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>
> > You are probably right. But I want to know for how long the leaded gas
> > could be used without serious consequences.
> >
> > I am also interested in this because I once used up 10 gallons of leaded
> > gas by mistake. Do I need to get new O2 sensors now?
> >
> > Philip
> >
> > At 02:04 6/16/2002, Geoff Mohler wrote:
> > >Is it worth the hassle or cost?
> > >
> > >Nope.
> > >
> > >On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dang! These are excellent times for 14 psi!
> > > >
> > > > What about the LEADED 110 octane. How long can you run it before the O2
> > > > sensors or catalysts go south?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:42:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...

Failure..is a relative term.

Degredation..is a fact.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, fastmax wrote:

> I'm not sure what the magic amount is, but but I asked Matt Monet the same
> question and he claims to have hundreds of runs with 110+ leaded and has
> not had an O2 failure. It may have to do with a few gallons of leaded followed
> by many gallons of unleaded ????
>
>         Jim Berry
> =====================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> To: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
> Cc: <team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 11:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...
>
>
> >
> > Not now..no..but keep doing it..and bank on it.
> > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
> >
> > > You are probably right. But I want to know for how long the leaded gas
> > > could be used without serious consequences.
> > >
> > > I am also interested in this because I once used up 10 gallons of leaded
> > > gas by mistake. Do I need to get new O2 sensors now?
> > >
> > > Philip

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:14:46 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Two mods today

Today I broke my own rule of making no more than one mod at a time. I
replaced my spark plugs and installed Denso 550 ccm injectors.

I replaced my Denso Iridium IR-20 gapped at 0.032" for NGK coppers
BCPR7ES-11 (one range colder) gapped at 0.043". They run great! No spark
blowout at boost up to 1 bar. The motor runs crisp. The O2 voltage is way
more stable than before. It says between 0.4V and 0.6V at cruising speeds.
The problem that I had with O2 voltage dropping off all of a sudden at
various times is apparently gone (maybe because of the new injectors or
because I reset the ECU?).

The 550 ccm injectors is another story. When I removed the used plugs I saw
one of them was much lighter than others - leaner. That is why I decided to
replace the injectors as well. The new injectors dropped right in. I was
done in about 3 hours, then started the engine and I hears ticking, almost
like soft lifters but quieter. The bigger injectors are loud, I can hear
them! :-)

I set my S-AFC to -30% across the board. Played with it a little and
settled on -25% because it felt best. I think the voltage was at about
0.85V at WOT. QUESTION - what voltage range should I target at WOT?

Another issue - and this one is harder to figure out. I feel very slow
acceleration when I stomp on gas. The O2 voltage drops to almost zero. But
when boost reaches 5-7 psi, the voltage returns back to normal 0.85V and my
car shoots like a rocket. If that was a carburetor car, I would say that
the accelerator pump is broken. But this is fuel injection. Could we tweak
the enrichment during acceleration somehow?
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelinjection.htm#j2d. I could not fix it just
by changing the A/F mixture, although I will try again tomorrow.

Philip
Apexi AVC-R, S-AFC, S-ITC, Denso 550 ccm injectors, LabJack datalogging

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:16:37 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...

Well, maybe I should have been more explicit ---- he [ matt Monet ]
claimed that he encountered no noticeable problems as a result of running
leaded fuel at the strip after several hundred ¼ mile passes. Does that
mean the sensors were unaffected --- I don't know, if there are no
detectable problems it's hard to assign a degradation level to them.

Will an O2 sensor recover after a small amount of contamination ????
I've heard yes, but have no way to verify that statement.

If you want an answer go to the source --- talk to the guys who drag on
a regular basis. I know I wouldn't run a couple of tanks through my car
just to see but I'd have no qualms about running a couple of gallons
through every month or so.

        Jim berry
==============================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>

> Failure..is a relative term.
>
> Degredation..is a fact.
>
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, fastmax wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure what the magic amount is, but but I asked Matt Monet the same
> > question and he claims to have hundreds of runs with 110+ leaded and has
> > not had an O2 failure. It may have to do with a few gallons of leaded followed
> > by many gallons of unleaded ????
> >
> >         Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 04:30:01 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Leaded fuel and O2 sensors

> Failure..is a relative term.
> Degredation..is a fact.

Yes, exactly!  They'll still appear to work, but they
get less sensitive the more you use leaded fuel as lead
gets baked into the sensor.  In only running about 10
gallons of leaded fuel the entire insides of my exhaust
are coated with a layer of lead particles - so the lead
content is actually pretty high.

As your gas mileage goes down its a good indicator of
when to replace the sensors.  If you get below 15MPG
during regular cruising (no long WOT runs and average
driving) then its probably time to replace at least the
primary O2 sensors.

I've heard from some DSM car friends that you can kinda
revive them by heating the sensor element directly with
a propane torch to burn the lead out.  I haven't tried
that myself.  I don't even know if that's hot enough to
melt lead, but certainly not hot enough to vaporize it.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:38:41 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Leaded fuel and O2 sensors

Lead melts at very low temperatures. About the same temperature as solder.
You can melt it over a kitchen gas stove. Regular EGT's would melt it in no
time. I do not know if heating lead any higher would vaporize it and leave
the O2 sensor as new.

I am glad I won't have to replace my O2's for a while because they are
looking good now after I replaced my spark plugs (and reset the ECU).

Philip

At 00:30 6/17/2002, mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>I've heard from some DSM car friends that you can kinda
>revive them by heating the sensor element directly with
>a propane torch to burn the lead out.  I haven't tried
>that myself.  I don't even know if that's hot enough to
>melt lead, but certainly not hot enough to vaporize it.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 04:40:50 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Two mods today

> I set my S-AFC to -30% across the board. Played with
> it a little and settled on -25% because it felt
> best. I think the voltage was at about 0.85V at
> WOT. QUESTION - what voltage range should I target
> at WOT?

I'd shoot for not less than .90v on pump gas to be on
the safe side.  .85v is pretty lean for pump gas, but
on the edge with race fuel.  Of course everyone's car
is a little different and tuning by O2 voltage alone
isn't accurate or reliable.

> Another issue - and this one is harder to figure
> out. I feel very slow acceleration when I stomp
> on gas. The O2 voltage drops to almost zero. But
> when boost reaches 5-7 psi, the voltage returns
> back to normal 0.85V and my car shoots like a
> rocket. If that was a carburetor car, I would
> say that the accelerator pump is broken. But
> this is fuel injection. Could we tweak
> the enrichment during acceleration somehow?

Somewhere in your fuel curve you've got it set too
lean.  I don't use the S-AFC (I use the EFI PMS), but
if you can tweak based on throttle position or change
of TPS dial in more fuel for higher loads.  You need it
to jump up immediately when you jump on the gas.  The
stock ECU should still be providing an "accelerator
pump" sort of function by change in TPS, and it should
be more aggressive with bigger injectors so you
shouldn't be going lean unless the fuel curve is too
far off. 
Try shooting for .9v at WOT and see if that's a better
throttle response when punching it.

...and be careful.  With fuel control comes the ability
to trash your motor very easily!

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:46:26 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Two mods today

At 00:40 6/17/2002, mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>Try shooting for .9v at WOT and see if that's a better
>throttle response when punching it.

I thought I did that already and I saw the voltage drop when I punch it. I
will try it again tomorrow. Thanks.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Went to the dragstrip today...

Well..its all in the explanation of what degredation means.

Probly slower to react.

But..lead will deposit on it..and will affect it.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, fastmax wrote:

> Well, maybe I should have been more explicit ---- he [ matt Monet ]
> claimed that he encountered no noticeable problems as a result of running
> leaded fuel at the strip after several hundred ¼ mile passes. Does that
> mean the sensors were unaffected --- I don't know, if there are no
> detectable problems it's hard to assign a degradation level to them.
>
> Will an O2 sensor recover after a small amount of contamination ????
> I've heard yes, but have no way to verify that statement.
>
> If you want an answer go to the source --- talk to the guys who drag on
> a regular basis. I know I wouldn't run a couple of tanks through my car
> just to see but I'd have no qualms about running a couple of gallons
> through every month or so.
>
>         Jim berry
> ==============================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
>
> > Failure..is a relative term.
> >
> > Degredation..is a fact.
> >
> > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, fastmax wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure what the magic amount is, but but I asked Matt Monet the same
> > > question and he claims to have hundreds of runs with 110+ leaded and has
> > > not had an O2 failure. It may have to do with a few gallons of leaded followed
> > > by many gallons of unleaded ????
> > >
> > >         Jim Berry
> > > =====================================================

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:09:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Leaded fuel and O2 sensors

Ya..old ricer's wives tale.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:

> > Failure..is a relative term.
> > Degredation..is a fact.
>
> Yes, exactly!  They'll still appear to work, but they
> get less sensitive the more you use leaded fuel as lead
> gets baked into the sensor.  In only running about 10
> gallons of leaded fuel the entire insides of my exhaust
> are coated with a layer of lead particles - so the lead
> content is actually pretty high.
>
> As your gas mileage goes down its a good indicator of
> when to replace the sensors.  If you get below 15MPG
> during regular cruising (no long WOT runs and average
> driving) then its probably time to replace at least the
> primary O2 sensors.
>
> I've heard from some DSM car friends that you can kinda
> revive them by heating the sensor element directly with
> a propane torch to burn the lead out.  I haven't tried
> that myself.  I don't even know if that's hot enough to
> melt lead, but certainly not hot enough to vaporize it.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>

- ---
Geoff Mohler
Lots of cars..and race them all.  Dont you?

Got Brakes?   I've got savings!
Porterfield parts catalog online now at http://www.speedtoys.com
- ---


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:13:56 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Leaded fuel and O2 sensors

The "leaded" race gas that I thought was good for fuel injected cars says:
"contains PHOSPHORUS as lead substitute". But then it also says: "for
vehicles designed to use leaded fuel only". Guess not all leaded race gas
has lead in it.

Philip

At 00:30 6/17/2002, mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>In only running about 10
>gallons of leaded fuel the entire insides of my exhaust
>are coated with a layer of lead particles - so the lead
>content is actually pretty high.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:56:25 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Acceleration enrichment (was Re: Team3S: Two mods today)

A question to those who have O2 gauges and run stock and upgraded injectors:

When you punch your gas pedal, do you see a drop in the O2 voltage?

I am wondering if those of you with bigger injectors see a bigger voltage drop.

Philip

At 00:46 6/17/2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>At 00:40 6/17/2002, mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>>Try shooting for .9v at WOT and see if that's a better
>>throttle response when punching it.
>
>I thought I did that already and I saw the voltage drop when I punch it. I
>will try it again tomorrow. Thanks.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 8:35:43 EDT
From: rjhicks@mtu.edu
Subject: Team3S: 1992 RT TT FOR SALE

Well everyone, they day that everyone on this list hopes never comes for
them has for me...I have officially put my dream car up for sale! :(

The car is a 1992 Dodge Stealth RT Twin Turbo (Red w/black leather)
It has all the good stuff (AWD, AWS, AC, CC, PW, PL, ECS...) that comes
on an RT TT as well as:
- -Borla 3inch Exh
- -ATR downpipe
- -TurboXS perf boost controler
- -Centerforce Clutch
- -K+N FIPK
- -Autometer Boost Gage and Autometer Air/Fuel Gage in the A-Pillar
- -Unorthodox Aluminum Underdrive Pulley
- -factory removable sunroof
- -factory cd player

The car has been very well maintained. 60K service has been done. Also
has new tires, o2 sensors etc etc...Very clean and very nice
Have not had any problems with the car at all..but one of my scholarships
for school has fallen through and its time to make ends meet...
It has 68,000 pampered miles on it
$13,000 OBO

Also if anybody could offer any advice on good methods for selling that
would be appreciated.
I have pictures avaliable and anybody interested can reach me off of the
list at rjhicks@mtu.edu
The car is in the Grand Rapids MI area now but could arrange to meet in
the Detriot area as well.

Thanks
Rob Hicks

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:00:16 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Acceleration enrichment

A voltage drop when "punching it." I think this is a situation where reality
is quicker than the eye. When staring at my ARM1 meter I don't see a
noticeable drop in "voltage" (movement of lights in the red direction) (my
car: '92 TT with 550 injectors and ARC2). Friend Dean's '94 VR4 with a VPC and
550 injectors does show this and he is only partially successful at reducing
it with a GCC (I think it is the GCC he is using). Anyway, I took a look at
the two datalogs available at my web site.

Both show a distinct voltage drop.

Injector comparo 380 and 550:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-tmo1.htm

1/4 mile run:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-tmo2.htm

I then looked at Kevin Schappell's logs:
http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/TMO.htm
His show a noticeable "lag" of the O2 voltage - meaning the voltage is low
after he stomps on it, reaching a minimum after he is back to WOT.

I am not sure what to conclude from this except 1) trust the datalog over
the "in-dash" instruments, and 2) if acceleration isn't affected, it makes no
difference anyway.

The phenomenon is well understood: the lower density air accelerates faster
than fuel does so the mixture tends to "go lean" just when we "punch it". A
carburetor's accelerator pump tries to compensate for this, just like our ECM
does. Our airflow signal conditioners (AFC, ARC2, VPC) may be able to help
somewhat. But it may take an standalone fuel managemnent system to best
correct the problem.

BTW, the "acceleration enrichment" reported for our cars on the datalogger is
trash (at least for the TMO and my car). It works fine on the DSMs though.

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <team3S@team3s.com>; <mi3si@yahoogroups.com>; <a23Si@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:56 PM
Subject: Acceleration enrichment (was Re: Team3S: Two mods today)


A question to those who have O2 gauges and run stock and upgraded injectors:

When you punch your gas pedal, do you see a drop in the O2 voltage?

I am wondering if those of you with bigger injectors see a bigger voltage drop.

Philip

At 00:46 6/17/2002, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>At 00:40 6/17/2002, mjannusch@attbi.com wrote:
>>Try shooting for .9v at WOT and see if that's a better
>>throttle response when punching it.
>
>I thought I did that already and I saw the voltage drop when I punch it. I
>will try it again tomorrow. Thanks.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:36:31 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: SAFC knowledge needed...

It took a friend of mine all of 45 minutes to install it and the
wondering begins.....it works fine but now the theory part of this
unit that this list is so famous for begins...

If you increase the correction value does that inturn give more fuel
to the motor? More air signal means more fuel right? Or do I have
this completely backwards....more air less fuel?

TIA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:55:30 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Acceleration enrichment

> A voltage drop when "punching it." I think this is
> a situation where reality is quicker than the eye.
> When staring at my ARM1 meter I don't see a
> noticeable drop in "voltage" (movement of lights
> in the red direction) (my car: '92 TT with 550
> injectors and ARC2). Friend Dean's '94 VR4 with a
> VPC and 550 injectors does show this and he is
> only partially successful at reducing it with a
> GCC (I think it is the GCC he is using).

Now that I look at some of my logs, there is a lag
between punching it (TPS increase) and O2 readings
going up.  It goes by so quick that it isn't visible on
my LCD display for the PMS, but it is clearly in the
logs.  The PMS does* do acceleration enrichment, and I
am using that function so trying to get rid of the lag
is probably futile anyway.

http://mjannusch.home.attbi.com/rf12.xls

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:12:23 -0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: Team3S: Any suggestions?

I still cannot figure out any reason why I am only seeing .30-.32 boost
pressure in 1st and 2nd gear with the stock system.  I have looked
through the manual and I know it says acceptable range is 2.9-8.7psi but
that is a HUGE difference.  The watsegate solenoid is working properly
or at least seems to be, I can blow through it with 12v applied.  The
piping looks to be all together.  Can anyone think of anything that may
have been knocked loose, or come undone when they switched out the
transmission? I was surprised how little the service manuals say about
the turbos and testing them.  Is there a way to test the turbos to see
if each on is working?  Thanks for any advice.

Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:36:10 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: SAFC knowledge needed...

You've got it right:  more air = more fuel.  Or more specifically, a higher
MAS frequency will cause the ECU to increase the injector duty cycle, which
results in more fuel.  More fuel doesn't always mean more power though;
running too rich can sap power. 

Anybody with an air flow converter on an NA want to comment on their
experiences? 

- - Brian

- -----Original Message-----
From: ek2mfg [mailto:ek2mfg@foxinternet.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:37 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: SAFC knowledge needed...


It took a friend of mine all of 45 minutes to install it and the
wondering begins.....it works fine but now the theory part of this
unit that this list is so famous for begins...

If you increase the correction value does that inturn give more fuel
to the motor? More air signal means more fuel right? Or do I have
this completely backwards....more air less fuel?

TIA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:27:11 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Any suggestions?

> I still cannot figure out any reason why I am only seeing
> .30-.32 boost pressure in 1st and 2nd gear with the stock
> system. 

If you're questioning if your turbos are having problems, one thing
to do would be to disconnect the wastegate actuator vacuum line and
*carefully* do some high-throttle runs.  Watch the gauge carefully, and if
the boost starts going too high, shut her down quick :-) 
I've found the best way to do this is to start around 2000RPM in 2nd
or 3rd and floor it.  If your turbos are good, the boost will start to rise
and hit 15psi reasonably quickly, but not so quickly that you can't get off
the throttle to prevent overboost.  If you still get 0.3x kg of boost at
that point, then something is wrong with your turbos or the
wastegates/actuators.

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:17:19 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Any suggestions?

Or you might have a massive leak along the intake somewhere, try doing a
intake pressure test, also I'm not sure, but if your running the stock bov
still its probably so worn out im surprised your getting that .32 of boost
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member #4909
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Joshua G. Prince'" <joshua@unconundrum.com>; "Team3S List (E-mail)"
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Any suggestions?


> > I still cannot figure out any reason why I am only seeing
> > .30-.32 boost pressure in 1st and 2nd gear with the stock
> > system.
>
> If you're questioning if your turbos are having problems, one thing
> to do would be to disconnect the wastegate actuator vacuum line and
> *carefully* do some high-throttle runs.  Watch the gauge carefully, and if
> the boost starts going too high, shut her down quick :-)
> I've found the best way to do this is to start around 2000RPM in 2nd
> or 3rd and floor it.  If your turbos are good, the boost will start to
rise
> and hit 15psi reasonably quickly, but not so quickly that you can't get
off
> the throttle to prevent overboost.  If you still get 0.3x kg of boost at
> that point, then something is wrong with your turbos or the
> wastegates/actuators.
>
> --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:19:57 -0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Any suggestions?

No I am running the Greddy type S blow off valve, but I guess I should
check it to make sure it is working properly.  I guess I will need to go
get a hand vacuum pump to check it.
 
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Donald Ashby III [mailto:dashbyiii@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 2:17 PM
To: team3s
Subject: Re: Team3S: Any suggestions?
 
Or you might have a massive leak along the intake somewhere, try doing a
intake pressure test, also I'm not sure, but if your running the stock
bov
still its probably so worn out im surprised your getting that .32 of
boost
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member #4909

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:26:47 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Acceleration enrichment

I checked some of my old logs with stock injectors and there is about 0.5
- - 0.7 second lag between the throttle opening and the O2 reading rich (not
lean) again. You can clearly see the enrichment lag on my old 3rd gear
pull datalog on my website at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gphilip under
LabJack datalogging.That did not seem to be a problem at that time. But
now with these bigger injectors I am noticing this much much more. It
seems like the lag is about 1 - 2 seconds long and there is no power
during this lag. I can clearly see a voltage drop on both my blinky gauge
and a voltmeter. The lag lasts exactly until the boost reaches 7 psi.
Depending on the starting RPM and the gear, the longer it takes to reach 7
psi - the longer it takes for the blinky gauge to get back into greet and
my car to start pulling again.

Philip

- ----------------------------------------------------------------

>I am not sure what to conclude from this except 1) trust the datalog over

>the "in-dash" instruments, and 2) if acceleration isn't affected, it
makes no
>difference anyway.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:27:18 +0000
From: "Hans Hortin" <hortin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: AIRBAG/ Clutch

Hello.

I have put 5-56 on the contact (white) on the Airbag and it work for 2 days.
The 4th time i the SRS light RED in my eyes.
Is the contact a usual problem.


Can i get the MD- number for:
(MD for a Swedish Galant and Swedish prices.)

Clutch plate.   MD745934    160$
Clutch.         MD739223    174$
Bearing.        MD749998     50$

Time belt.
And the other two belts.
Waterpump.

VIN:JB3XD54B3MY005231

Try to find this parts in Sweden.

Its getting hot. Almost 30 Celsius.
Tried one of the Firm whit T3S discount. =)=)

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:50:59 -0700
From: "Greg Gonzales" <greggonzo1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: How do you  get to the O2 sensors?

I am having a hell of a time getting to the front O2 sensor. I am unable to
take off the bolts to the heat sheild that is over the tubo. The back one is
a pain but I can get to it after I take off the intercooler pipe and heat
shield there too.

My car is a 92 RT TT

Any Ideas?
Thanks
Greg Gonzales

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:02:05 -0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues

I went out and checked the bov, it checked out fine.  I check the intake
charge pressure control system which checked out.  I then disconnected
the wastegate actuator vacuum line and found that the highest the car
would hit with the vacuum line off was .50 in 2nd and 3rd and it
wouldn't hold .50, it held closer to .48.    I looked in the service
manual and I don't see anyway of testing the actual wastegates/actuators
or the turbos specifically.  Does anyone have any other ideas to try?  I
know if I take it to the dealership, they aren't going to have any
better of a guess then me and they will do all the same tests I have
already done.  I am going to jack up the car and look and see if I can
find any damage to the turbos specifically.  I know they broke the
downpipe at the flex section when they placed in the new transmission,
so I am worried that they may have destroyed on of the turbos when they
broke the downpipe.  Anyone have any input as to whether that is likely
or not?    Thanks again for all your great suggestions guys.
 
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik [mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:27 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince; Team3S List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Any suggestions?
 
> I still cannot figure out any reason why I am only seeing
> .30-.32 boost pressure in 1st and 2nd gear with the stock
> system.

        If you're questioning if your turbos are having problems, one
thing
to do would be to disconnect the wastegate actuator vacuum line and
*carefully* do some high-throttle runs.  Watch the gauge carefully, and
if
the boost starts going too high, shut her down quick :-)
        I've found the best way to do this is to start around 2000RPM in
2nd
or 3rd and floor it.  If your turbos are good, the boost will start to
rise
and hit 15psi reasonably quickly, but not so quickly that you can't get
off
the throttle to prevent overboost.  If you still get 0.3x kg of boost at
that point, then something is wrong with your turbos or the
wastegates/actuators.

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:11:03 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues

just a guess but if they jarred the turbo housing enough wouldn't
that create a bind in the housing between exhaust and intake? Maybe
it's a bearing? Either case sounds like you have a case to rag on a
service manager to check it out for free......that would be my next
move...if they admitted to breaking a downpipe I couldn't see you
couldn't put a lot of force on the turbo itself.....SATAN SUCKS! I am
not a turbo guy by owner but I took one apart that hit a wall at
60mph an there is a small clamp that holds the two turbo banks
together. Seems like a real good place for damage to occur when you
jar around the exhaust system.

JMHO

bobk.

- ---- Original Message ----
From: joshua@unconundrum.com
To: erik.gross@intel.com, team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:02:05 -0400

>I went out and checked the bov, it checked out fine.  I check the
>intake
>charge pressure control system which checked out.  I then
>disconnected
>the wastegate actuator vacuum line and found that the highest the car
>would hit with the vacuum line off was .50 in 2nd and 3rd and it
>wouldn't hold .50, it held closer to .48.    I looked in the service
>manual and I don't see anyway of testing the actual
>wastegates/actuators
>or the turbos specifically.  Does anyone have any other ideas to
>try?  I
>know if I take it to the dealership, they aren't going to have any
>better of a guess then me and they will do all the same tests I have
>already done.  I am going to jack up the car and look and see if I
>can
>find any damage to the turbos specifically.  I know they broke the
>downpipe at the flex section when they placed in the new
>transmission,
>so I am worried that they may have destroyed on of the turbos when
>they
>broke the downpipe.  Anyone have any input as to whether that is
>likely
>or not?    Thanks again for all your great suggestions guys.
>
>Joshua Prince
>97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
>3SI#0136
>Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>Joshua@Unconundrum.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:16:56 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Dyno Results

Today got 296 hp and 326 tq (that is corrected #s, std was 220hp 240tq here
in denver on a very hot day), should be much higher but I could only hit 6-7
psi during all the runs. I'm pretty sure it's the BOV leaking as its making
a lot of noise. time to get a new bov i guess :)
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member #4909

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:17:07 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues

I'd inspect the intercoolers to make sure you didn't
get a hole in 'em from a rock or something.  Pressurize
the intake and listen for boost leaks.  3SX Performance
has a nice setup to do exactly that for $60:

http://www.3sxperformance.com/tools.asp

...or you can fab one pretty easily with PVC pipe and a
standard air compressor hose connection.  I made mine
slightly different than 3SX made theirs - mine plugs
into the two turbo intake hoses rather than into the
MAF hose.  That way you can test the BOV at the same
time without putting pressure on its output side,
(which would make the test invalid).

My car did similar things when I first bought it. 
There was a Blitz BOV on the car, as well as the stock
CBV.  The vacuum hose on the stock valve was
disconnected, so it didn't have a pressure source
holding it closed under boost.  Probably not the case
in your instance, but just saying...

BTW, anyone want to buy a barely-used Blitz super-sound
BOV?  I suppose I should just put it on eBay.
 
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:20:17 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dyno Results

> Today got 296 hp and 326 tq (that is corrected #s,
> std was 220hp 240tq here in denver on a very hot
> day), should be much higher but I could only hit 6-7
> psi during all the runs.

You guys have an AWD dyno in Denver???  Where at?  They
are so uncommon that we should start a list.  :-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:42:44 -0400
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues

I am running the Greddy Type S blow off valve which I took completely
out of the car.  I put pressure to the unit and saw the valve in it move
up and down.  Just for shits and giggles, I had the stock bov which I
placed back on and did a run with.  I saw slightly less boost with the
stock bov then with the Greddy so, I am confident that the greddy type S
is working properly.  I can also here it HISS when it leaves off.  Damn,
if the dealer did screw them up, I wish I could make a deal where I
would buy new larger turbos and them just install them in place...if
only the world were that easy.  I guess I will have to call Kelly
Mitsubishi and get them to check out the car...this sucks.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Damon Rachell [mailto:damonr@MEFAS.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:37 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues
 
how did you test the BOV?  with the pressure tester?  If the BOV is
stuck open, then there still wouldn't be a pressure leak to atmosphere,
but boost would not be able to be generated.  One of my friends had this
happen to him.  What type of BOV is it?  TurboXS?  if so, take it apart
and smooth down the sidewalls with some emory cloth or fine sand paper.
Let me know what comes of this.
Damon 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:09:24 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch/Tranny saga, part II

Some of you may remember my long post a couple of weeks ago about suspected
clutch drag in my new '95 VR-4 (56k miles, original driveline and clutch
AFAIK, BG synchroshift in tranny (10,000mi/2 years ago)). 

Quick Summary:
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Symptom1:     Car creeps forward (flat surface) or holds
              position (on very slight backward grade) when
              gear selector is in 1st and the clutch is
              fully depressed
Frequency:    intermittent, maybe about 20% of the time I
               move the car forward in 1st without shifting
              before stopping
Doesn't Work: Moving the car further forward; partially
              releasing the clutch
Works:        Move gear selector to neutral
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Symptom2:     Gear shift lever hard to get OUT of gear;
              only occurs in 1st gear, clutch on floor
Frequency:    Coincident with Symptom1.  Always.  Never
              happens without Symptom1.
Doesn't Work: Engage/disengage clutch; move car forward
Works:        Pull the shifter a little harder.  A quick
              jerk pops it loose.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Symptom3:     Car is hard to get into 1st gear when stopped,
              selector is in neutral, and clutch is on the
              floor
Frequency:    10-20% of the time
Doesn't Work: Shove gear selector harder into 1st; OR
              release clutch pedal and re-depress it
              (sometimes)
Works:        Without moving the clutch pedal (keeping it
              depressed), shift to 2nd or 4th and then into
              1st; OR release clutch pedal and re-depress
              it (sometimes)
- -----------------------------------------------------------

I think Symptom1 and Symptom2 are related, though I'm not entirely sure.
Symptom3 may be an entirely different issue.


As to what may be causing the above symptoms, here's what I can come up
with:
- --------------------------------------------------------
A:   Air in clutch hydraulic lines
B:   Bad clutch fluid
C:   Clutch pedal out of adjustment
D:   Bad clutch slave cylinder (seals?)
E:   Bad clutch master cylinder
F:   Clutch disc sticking to flywheel
G:   Pressure plate malfunction
H:   Something else (ideas?????)
- --------------------------------------------------------
Comments:
- --------------------------------------------------------
A:   Just completely bled the clutch system this weekend
     with brand new DOT4 Synthetic fluid; problems remain
B:   See A.
C:   Will take measurements and compare to specs.  By
     "foot feel," it feels ok.  Engagement point is
     reasonable, and all shifting while moving feels ok.
     I never get any grinding while shifting.
D:   The car did sit a lot last year (previous owner only
     drive it 4000 mi), so could the seals have gone bad?
     If so, would I be losing fluid?  The reservoir stays
     full...
E:   See D.
F:   Can this happen?  If so, why?  Is this indicative of
     a failing/aging clutch?
G:   I'd think if the pressure plate fatigued, you'd get
     less pressure of intermittent slippage, not my
     symptoms, but I'm grasping at straws here :-)
H:   Something I'm not thinking of?
- --------------------------------------------------------

Thanks a bunch,
- --Erik
'95 Black on White VR-4 [KIA, SOLD]
'95 White on Black VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:20:22 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AWD Dyno LIST

OK Here we go,   Also if you guys/gals could specify the type I would
appreciate it.........
 
Milford CT                          AWD Dyno Jet  (Pruven Performance)
Auburn MA                         LowBoy AWD  (Adrenalin Motorsport)
Gaithersburg MD                AWD Dyno Jet  (AlteredAtmosphere Motorsports)
 
 
Lets Do a copy and paste for this one so that way we do not put the digest
folks through the ringer......

- -----Original Message-----
From: mjannusch@attbi.com [mailto:mjannusch@attbi.com]
Sent: Mon 6/17/2002 4:20 PM
To: Donald Ashby III
Cc: team3s
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dyno Results

You guys have an AWD dyno in Denver???  Where at?  They
are so uncommon that we should start a list.  :-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:21:20 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lack of boost...the saga continues

.50 boost with the vacuum hose to the waste gates off sounds like one turbo
is not working at all.  Maybe you have a seized turbo?  Pull your IC pipes
off the intakes and see if you can spin them with your hand.

If for some strange reason, those mechanics pinched the oil return line or a
coolant line on your rear turbo, it would definately seize.

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:31:10 -0400
From: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: 92 TT 4 Sale

This is not my car and I appologize for any inconvinence to the list, but
thought someone out there may be interested in a 92 Stealth Rt Twin Turbo I
happened to see today in the Auto Mart. It claims to have only 9K original
miles and looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. No need to email
or contact me as this is all the info I have, its actually at a dealership
1-800-998-8082 or 740-967-8080 car is in OH. I guess I should mention thier
asking price is 19,995 that would be about 15K off of when is was new I
think. Car is white and so are its rims.

TNT3KGT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:33:49 -0400
From: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: 92 Stealth TT 4 sale

About my last post, I found a website address for the dealership it is
www.dennydotson.com they also have another stealth a 98 sl and a few supra
turbos etc.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:05:23 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AWD Dyno LIST

Milford CT                          AWD Dyno Jet  (Pruven Performance)
Auburn MA                         LowBoy AWD  (Adrenalin Motorsport)
Gaithersburg MD                AWD Dyno Jet  (AlteredAtmosphere
Motorsports)
Redmond WA AWD Mustang DyneC (Dyno
Authority)

Taken from http://66.114.152.24/about.htm "Dyno Authority uses an
enhanced Mustang DyneC system. We use the MD7000 control panel with a
dyno bed capable of measuring four wheels at once. This is indespensible
for testing todays all-wheel drive vehicles."

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:11:53 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 92 Stealth TT 4 sale

It goes without saying...a 98 Stealth does not exist....I would bet
these numbers are fallen victim to either hook and bait practices or
a newspaper/site that hase know spele cheker :)

- ---- Original Message ----
From: terflit@hotmail.com
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 92 Stealth TT 4 sale
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:33:49 -0400

>About my last post, I found a website address for the dealership it
>is
>www.dennydotson.com they also have another stealth a 98 sl and a few
>supra
>turbos etc.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:37:14 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 60k tools

Just FYI, apparently the spanner wrench has gone up in price: $41.69.  The
$16.80 is still current for the timing belt wrench.  Ordered my set today.
Shipped today, should have them in 2-3 days.

- --Erik

> MLR-MD998767  Wrench, timing belt    $16.80  (this is the tensioner)
>
> MLR-6958   Spanner wrench   $24.09  (this is the end yoke holder)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #872
***************************************