Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Friday, May 10 2002     Volume 01 : Number 836




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:16:13 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

No problems are reported at all. But I just feel better having one flex
before and after the y in the downpipe. My muffler shop has this done to my
ATR and it's just for me knowing it can flex now. A flex section of course
and crack.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
ww.rtec.ch

> I am about to buy a down pipe for my 92 Stealth RT TT.  I am not sure if I
> should buy one with or without a flex section.  Has anyone had problems
with
> one or the other?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:46:57 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: what causes knock when punching it at mid rpms

I meant to say that the airflow is miniscule during the brake-boosting, it
goes up of course when I let off the brakes and begin moving.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl [mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 5:11 AM
To: Bill vp
Subject: Re: Team3S: what causes knock when punching it at mid rpms

I have no idea but the VPC tweaks the airflow signal and what yo usee is
what the VPC sends. Drive it with this boost at this rpm normally and check
the the signal. If it is not the same in yoru test then the VPC does
something wrong. This is why some do not like the old VPC as it just does
things one cannot explain why.

Hope this helps
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
To: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Cc: "team3/S" <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: what causes knock when punching it at mid rpms

> Here's another thing that I've noticed recently, which I'm not sure if I
> could do when I was stock (probably could).  If I brake-boost, I can get
> full boost without accelerating.  I have only tried this up to 14.5 psi,
but
> in 3rd gear at 4000 rpm, if I hold the brake with one foot and floor it
with
> the other, I can get up to 14.5 psi (which is where my boost controller is
> set at), and when I let go of the brake, there is instant acceleration --
> instead of any lag at all, the boost stays.
>
> Now for the part having to do with this post.  If I floor it at 4000 rpm
in
> 3rd, then I get pretty heavy knock, which stays until redline.  Like I
said
> before, if I run it through the gears, I get little to no knock in this
rpm
> range in 3rd.  If however, I brake-boost as described above at 4000 rpm --
> and then let off the brake while flooring it, there is NO KNOCK.  Why
would
> this be?  According to the pocketlogger, the airflow is miniscule (barely
> above zero.
>
> again, I have 15G's, vpc/safc, BOV, fuel, etc.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:20:38 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

If I remember correctly, the stored codes are sent to the connector only for
a while when the ignition is first turned on.  If the ignition has been on
for a while, it may not be sending.  all codes are not necessarily stored,
some are cleared when the condition that caused them is corrected.  The
signal is only on one pin - I have to look it up to see which one. I have
always used a voltmenter and never a test lamp.

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moreton [SMTP:moreton@zim.co.zw]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 2:11 AM
> To: Team3s
> Subject: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I've been trying to get the diag codes out of my 92 VR4 to establish what
> is
> causing the CE light to come on, which then kills the engine. I've been
> using a test lamp, and grounding one end on PIN 12 whilst touching the
> other
> end to one of the other PINS at the same time (I've tried all the other
> PINS
> 1-11 one at a time), but I'm not getting any flashes on the testing lamp.
>
> I've confirmed the obvious things ie. Ignition on, 12V tester working,
> battery charged. Any ideas on why I'm not getting anything out of the diag
> connector?
>
> Tony in Zim

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:53:33 -0600
From: "Mike & Cathy" <micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject: Team3S: tdo4 turbos waste gate

Are the stock TD04 turbos preset with a 8.5psi internal waste. If so how are
these turbos able to boost past this setting? Mike S 92 rt tt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:37:56 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tdo4 turbos waste gate

> Are the stock TD04 turbos preset with a 8.5psi internal waste. If so how
are
> these turbos able to boost past this setting? Mike S 92 rt tt

Yes, they are set approximately in that range.  They boost higher because
the pressure being sent to the wastegate actuators is modulated by bleeding
off some of the pressure (in the case of the stock boost control setup), or
waiting until the turbos spool to a set boost pressure and then sending
pressure to the wastegate all at once to regulate boost (in the case of an
electronic solenoid controller).  Some manual controllers (bleedoff valves)
just further reduce the amount of pressure that reaches the wastegate
actuators to increase boost.

Regardless of the method, it is all about controlling the pressure in the
wastegate signal hose that determines how much boost the turbos are allowed
to produce.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:47:10 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tdo4 turbos waste gate

The turbos do have an internal wastgate controlled by a diaphragm type
controller --- as boost exceeds 6 pounds the diaphragm pushes on a rod
which in turn opens the waste gate. To get more than 6 pounds you
need a boost controller --- the stock unit is controlled by the ECU and
simply allows pressurized air to escape from the diaphragm so it thinks
the pressure in the system is below 6 pounds. If you disconnect the
pressure line to the wastgate it thinks there is no pressure and keeps
the wastgate closed which allows the turbos to provide maximum boost.
I think the stock 9b's can provide about 20 pounds at WOT from 4K to
maybe 5500 rpm at which point they start to drop off --- your car will
knock at 20 psi without race gas and alcohol/propane injection.

        Jim Berry
=============================================

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:55:26 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE:WAS tdo4 turbo wastegate NOW 368SX install?

A disconnected boost hose is how I managed to grenade my motor.....  19 psi
+  94 octane + stock injectors =  BOOM

Now Tech question to anyone who has installed 368SX (just found out that I
will need to get these to outrun the two local Night Riders) what kind of
modifications need to be made to the oil and coolant flow lines?  How about
to the stock Turbo mounting bracket?

If there anything else I should be aware of Let me know

Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 She's down but not out

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:06:12 -0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: Brakes anyone ?

http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78646&perpage=15&pagenumbe
r=1

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:08:33 -0700
From: "Chris Winkley" <Chris_Winkley@adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

Doug...

I've had the ATR downpipe (no flex section) for four years. The first year I also had a GReddy catback exhaust with a test pipe (for off-road use, of course). What I found is that the lack of a flex section caused the GReddy to bang into the left rear tow hook so I removed the tow hook. Later I removed the GReddy completely (for weight and back pressure reasons) and now run only a Magneflow muffler straight off the downpipe. Again, this results in the muffler banging up against the tunnel with each hard shift so I rigged a asbestos and rubber pad over the top. I put the GReddy and a high flow cat back on when it's time to go through DEQ.

BTW...I've heard of people having trouble with the welds on a non-flex downpipe but I haven't had problems (so far, fingers crossed).

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/custom K&N intake, bored and polished throttle body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, ARC2/MAF fuel controller, Split Second A/F meter, GReddy PRofec A boost controller, Apex EGT & boost gauges, GReddy turbo timer, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers, trunk mounted Optima Red Top, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs gapped at .032", ACT 2800 lb pressure plate, Broward six puck racing disc, Centerforce throwout bearing, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, Stillen cross-drilled rotors, Porterfield R4 race pads, SS brake lines, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots on factory 18" chromed wheels)

- -----Original Message-----
From: dakken [mailto:dougusmagnus@attbi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:06 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

I am about to buy a down pipe for my 92 Stealth RT TT.  I am not sure if I
should buy one with or without a flex section.  Has anyone had problems with
one or the other?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes anyone ?

Im iffy on the weight savings.

You drop mass, you lose braking ability.  Think very hard about what I
just mentioned there..its very relevant.

Even with alum. hats, the 2pc rotor im selling has a much more agressive
rotor material..the total weight savings is maybe 1lb.

On Thu, 9 May 2002, Floyd, Jim wrote:

> http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78646&perpage=15&pagenumbe
> r=1

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:15:30 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 368SX install?

> Now Tech question to anyone who has installed 368SX (just found out that I
> will need to get these to outrun the two local Night Riders) what kind of
> modifications need to be made to the oil and coolant flow lines?  How
about
> to the stock Turbo mounting bracket?

The oil feed- and return-lines can stay. The return lines can also be
upgraded if you want to do this. On my setup the braided lines where not
flexible enough as the oil pan connections are not made to get much stress !
So I used the stock stuff.

The water lines must be changed (at least one of each turbo) . I cut the
banjo part of the aluminum water lines and connected some good water hoses
for car applications to them. In fact I only used the fittings and replaced
the tubing with high temp hoses.

The front motor mount must be cut to fit. I got a replacement from GT PRO.

The front wastegate may get in touch with the propeller bracket of the fans.
I had to cut out a smaller piece.

The rear intake plenum bracket (holds TB and intake plenum) must be cut to
fit the large housing.

The stock wastegate actuators may be bent and adjusted to make them work
properly. Not sure if the current turbos come with actuators attached
already.

The intake rubber tubing fit when the internal gasket is removed. Works well
enough.

That's it :)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:12:42 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

I have used the ATR DP, which does not have a flex section, for ~2.5 years and
8K miles. No problems as far as cracking that I have discovered. There are no
reasons I can think of that the DP or exhaust should be stressed to the point
of breaking because of the lack of a flex section. The motion of our
transversely mounted engine moves the entire exhaust in the front-back
direction for the most part, basically along the long-dimension of the pipes.

>From my recollection of the installation, the only places where the exhaust
(DP and back) is rigidly mounted to the car is the top of the DP (inlets
connecting to the exhaust fittings). The rest of the exhaust (stock and ATR at
least) mounts using metal "straps" and loops of rubber. This type of mounting
absorbs the front-back motion of the pipes due to the engine torque. However,
the flexible mounting can cause interference of exhaust parts with other car
components. Like Chris mentioned with his GReddy setup, my ATR left (driver's
side) muffler knocked against the tow bracket. Removing that bracket solved
the noise problem. I don't think this is related to the lack of a flex section
in the DP though.

The flex section might make matching the DP inlets to the exhaust fittings
easier. However, the ATR DP matched up well with the fittings for my '92 TT.

More ATR info:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-atr.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- -----Original Message-----
From: dakken [mailto:dougusmagnus@attbi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:06 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

I am about to buy a down pipe for my 92 Stealth RT TT.  I am not sure if I
should buy one with or without a flex section.  Has anyone had problems with
one or the other?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:34:42 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 368SX install?

Argh, I forgot that the stock IC piping doesn't fit anymore of course. The
outlet is way bigger than the stock ones. For the first tests I made an
adapter for each turbo so the 368s currently run with the stock ICs.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> Thanks Roger, what was your opinion of them with the stock IC's?
Obviously
> not the best solution but I would like to get at least one shakedown run
> this year before the tracks close and waiting on FMIC will delay that.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:14:57 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Brakes anyone ?

You drop mass, you lose heat capacity, too.  Less mass means the same amount
of heat will make the temperature of the rotor rise more.

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 10:19 AM
> To: Floyd, Jim
> Cc: 'Team 3S'; '3/S Racers'
> Subject: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Brakes anyone ?
>
> Im iffy on the weight savings.
>
> You drop mass, you lose braking ability.  Think very hard about what I
> just mentioned there..its very relevant.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:01:24 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: TMO Datalogger

Well after calling TMO directly and leaving a message as well as
contacting Buschur Racing I have come to the conclusion that the TMO
Datalogger is about 3 months delayed.  Buschur has been trying to get
them for 2.5 months now.  They are only two and a half hours from me so
I was willing to drive there to pick one up.

So now that the guy (or people) making the TMO Datalogger have fallen
flat on their face as far as response and customer service ... is there
anyone within the Watkins Glen area that has one for a first gen VR-4
that I can borrow or loan from you?  Contact me off-list or reply
on-list with related technical issues.

How many "bad reports" does someone get before they are listed under the
"less-than-ideal-folks-to-deal-with" list like some black-listed dealers
are on?

Live in Pittsburgh, PA and driving to Watkins Glen while a friend is
driving in from Connecticut.  If anyone within a reasonable distance
from these places has a TMO datalogger then please let me know off-list.
Thanks for your time.

- --Flash!
Pittsburgh, PA
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 22:37
 
Not so technical of a question but I ordered the TMO Datalogger via
PayPal this past Sunday and then sent a follow-up email to them on
Tuesday asking for the status of my order and if I would receive it
before this weekend's trip to Watkins Glen.

How long does the TMO Datalogger usually take to ship, how responsive
are they to Customer Service, if this does not arrive in time can I
borrow or loan a Datalogger from someone?

Usually after an order there is a phone call or email confirming it all.
I don't see very much in the way of customer relations but maybe they
are off racing or on vacation.  I haven't heard negative things about it
so I don't have any reason to worry but does anyone have any insight
(yes I have messages pending on their side from questions I have asked)?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and helping a friend's 1992 VR-4
www.schilberg.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:56:56 EDT
From: JayBobski@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Black Smoke

While I was driving an intercooler hose popped off and the engine began to
stumble (black smoke from exhaust) . Since I was only a mile from home I
drove it slowly (it wouldn't get over 1500rpm) . Next morning I reconnected
the hose and the car started - drove approx 50 miles with no problems. The
next day after 30 miles of interstate driving the car starts to stumble again
with black smoke won't idle and dies. This morning I started the car and it
seemed to start fine and went into fast idle - revved it a little and it went
into stumble and die mode.

I checked the timing belt -it was fine, all marks in the right places,tension
fine. Front plugs all black soot one smelled of gas. Checked all electrical
connections - pulled them off put them back on.

Tach read 0 will cranking , engine light does not stay on, boost guage while
stumbling into garage at 1500 rpm was pegged at max , when I turned the car
off oil pressure guage went down to 2 ticks above bottom and stayed.

Questions
1) Would the popping off of the IC hose cause the car to stumble or is there
a coincidental problem?
2) Could I have damaged anything by driving it home the first time it
happened ? (O2 sensor , catalytic converter)
3) Can the crank angle sensor be intermittant ( without respect to the
harness)?
4) Could it be power transistor /coil problem ? ECU?

John Janicek  91VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:36:16 -0700
From: P N Sankarshanan <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Black Smoke

On Thu, May 09, 2002, JayBobski@aol.com <JayBobski@aol.com> wrote:
> Questions 1) Would the popping off of the IC hose cause the car to stumble
> or is there a coincidental problem? 

I've had this happen once, and the effect was quite similar to when my Y-pipe
blew away from the throttle body - the motor died on me immediately after it
happened.  They both occured at high boost, ofcourse.

The Y-pipe blowup was much scarier as it happened in the back straight at PIR
and I lost braking and steering control just as the motor stopped.

They both result in insufficient air entering the intake; this may result in
momentary rich condition, since the air entering through the MAS has already
been accounted for in fuel calculation,  but it gets released into the
atmosphere instead of entering the intake.

However, I am impressed that you were able to keep the motor running long
enough to drive the 1-mile distance.

> John Janicek  91VR4

- --
*******************************************************************************
Troi: "Wouldn't you rather be alone with me?  With me in your mind?"
- --Troi, "The Naked Now", Stardate 41
*******************************************************************************

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:39:48 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: TMO Datalogger

That's the advantage to being the only game in town --- Some time ago
someone mentioned cloning the device and people jumped all over him
for even thinking of stealing someone else's intellectual property. IMHO
if he can't or won't support his products then let someone else take over.
When you buy one, he promises support and product enhancement but
in reality he just takes the money and runs --- no sympathy form me if
someone takes over his product.

         Jim berry
==============================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "'Team3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: TMO Datalogger


> Well after calling TMO directly and leaving a message as well as
> contacting Buschur Racing I have come to the conclusion that the TMO
> Datalogger is about 3 months delayed.  Buschur has been trying to get
> them for 2.5 months now.  They are only two and a half hours from me so
> I was willing to drive there to pick one up.
>
> So now that the guy (or people) making the TMO Datalogger have fallen
> flat on their face as far as response and customer service ... is there
> anyone within the Watkins Glen area that has one for a first gen VR-4
> that I can borrow or loan from you?  Contact me off-list or reply
> on-list with related technical issues.
>
> How many "bad reports" does someone get before they are listed under the
> "less-than-ideal-folks-to-deal-with" list like some black-listed dealers
> are on?
>
> Live in Pittsburgh, PA and driving to Watkins Glen while a friend is
> driving in from Connecticut.  If anyone within a reasonable distance
> from these places has a TMO datalogger then please let me know off-list.
> Thanks for your time.
>
> --Flash!
> Pittsburgh, PA
> www.schilberg.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 22:37

> Not so technical of a question but I ordered the TMO Datalogger via
> PayPal this past Sunday and then sent a follow-up email to them on
> Tuesday asking for the status of my order and if I would receive it
> before this weekend's trip to Watkins Glen.
>
> How long does the TMO Datalogger usually take to ship, how responsive
> are they to Customer Service, if this does not arrive in time can I
> borrow or loan a Datalogger from someone?
>
> Usually after an order there is a phone call or email confirming it all.
> I don't see very much in the way of customer relations but maybe they
> are off racing or on vacation.  I haven't heard negative things about it
> so I don't have any reason to worry but does anyone have any insight
> (yes I have messages pending on their side from questions I have asked)?
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 and helping a friend's 1992 VR-4
> www.schilberg.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:42:55 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Black Smoke

Best guess would be fouled plugs --- you can also try resettint the ECU.
Disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes then reconnect.

         Jim berry
=======================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <JayBobski@aol.com>

> While I was driving an intercooler hose popped off and the engine began to
> stumble (black smoke from exhaust) . Since I was only a mile from home I
> drove it slowly (it wouldn't get over 1500rpm) . Next morning I reconnected
> the hose and the car started - drove approx 50 miles with no problems. The
> next day after 30 miles of interstate driving the car starts to stumble again
> with black smoke won't idle and dies. This morning I started the car and it
> seemed to start fine and went into fast idle - revved it a little and it went
> into stumble and die mode.
>
> I checked the timing belt -it was fine, all marks in the right places,tension
> fine. Front plugs all black soot one smelled of gas. Checked all electrical
> connections - pulled them off put them back on.
>
> Tach read 0 will cranking , engine light does not stay on, boost guage while
> stumbling into garage at 1500 rpm was pegged at max , when I turned the car
> off oil pressure guage went down to 2 ticks above bottom and stayed.
>
> Questions
> 1) Would the popping off of the IC hose cause the car to stumble or is there
> a coincidental problem?
> 2) Could I have damaged anything by driving it home the first time it
> happened ? (O2 sensor , catalytic converter)
> 3) Can the crank angle sensor be intermittant ( without respect to the
> harness)?
> 4) Could it be power transistor /coil problem ? ECU?
>
> John Janicek  91VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:08:35 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Adventures in braking (+cryo rotors info)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
> Can Dr. Andy Lin (I think that is who it was) get back on here or can
someone get in touch with him to see if he knows how aggressive his pads are
or if he has any insight?
> Rich, you said they were within spec, but were they visually inspected
before the event?  Were you looking for cracks in the holes that go over the
studs, near the outside edges (or where the pads engage the rotor)? I never
did this until I noticed some cracks on a friend's rotor at the track.  Then
I checked mine.  Whew.  All good.  But after a few months I had a small
crack developing (non-race conditions though).
- ------------------snip--------------->

{{{I'm copying this to the Team3S list, since the cryo info below is
important, and I'd like it in the Archives.  For those just joining the
discussion, Merritt cracked a stock rotor racing his VR4 this past weekend,
and we've been dissecting the problem...}}}  I sent a couple of these posts
to Andie Lin from Carbotech, since he's not a member of the Team3SRacers
list.   Here's his reply...:

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>

Well, first of all...I'm not a "Dr.", hehe...just a B.A. in Intl Political
Economic with a minor in Molecular Biology, and working on an MBA right now,
hehe.  So, that makes me a "Mr."

On the part of shattering rotors...

We all really need to inspect our equipment before going on the track.  All
rotors will show signs of heat checking and cracking over time...this is
simply due to the repeated heat cycles to elevated temperatures, and rapid
cooling rates when off the brakes.  Superficial "spider web" cracking on the
surface of a rotor is normal...but if any one crack is longer than 1/2" in
length, and has a width of greater than 0.010" (about the thickness of a
business card), and has a depth of more than 0.002", then the rotor is not
safe and you should trash it (i.e. for track use...for street cruising, it
will be fine).

Now, cryogenically treating rotors will improve rotor wear, and will also
make it more resistant to warping and/or cracking.  This does not mean that
a cryogenically treated rotor will not crack or wrap...just makes it less
prone to doing so.  A lot of places provide cryogenic treatment...but it's
really in how the process is handled that makes the difference.  I have no
idea how Porterfield does their cryogenic treatment...do they just put it in
a liquid nitrogen tank for 2 hours and call it a day, or do they slowly
bring it down to -90F first, and then slowly down to -300F, and then
time-control it back to room-temp, and then use a 3-stage heat treating
method to relieve residual stresses in the rotor?  Who knows...  I'd ask
them for a print out of the entire cryogenic process, which should have at
least 6-8 hours at -300F (-290F minimum)...

To help with rotors cracking and also wear rates of the rotor and the pad,
consider installing cooling ducts that actually work.  The pad alone will
not crack or warp a rotor.  The P+ and XP compounds are both very rotor
friendly - about 15-20% more rotor aggressive than an OEM pad.

Not sure if I answered all the questions...but it's a start. :-)

With Best Regards,

Andie Lin

andie w lin
carbotech engineering usa
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Adventures in braking (+cryo rotors info)

> really in how the process is handled that makes the difference.  I have no
> idea how Porterfield does their cryogenic treatment...do they just put it in
> a liquid nitrogen tank for 2 hours and call it a day, or do they slowly
> bring it down to -90F first, and then slowly down to -300F, and then
> time-control it back to room-temp, and then use a 3-stage heat treating
> method to relieve residual stresses in the rotor?  Who knows...  I'd ask
> them for a print out of the entire cryogenic process, which should have at
> least 6-8 hours at -300F (-290F minimum)...
- ---
Its about a 2-3 day process, cryo orders arrive at the facility on friday
nights, and done get back to PF until Monday afternoon.
 
Other than that..you'd have to inquire with them yourselves..I dont know
any more than that.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:33:20 +0100
From: "Blueyondermail" <martinberkley@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Team3S: Pocketlogger help

Hi Guys
I have just received and set up Pocketlogger on my Palm and logged my first
run, only problem is i have no idea what im looking for, i have a slight
hesitation on light throttle but do not know what to look for on the logs,
does anyone have any instructions on de-ciphering the Pocketlogger logs?
Thanks in advance
Martin

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:37:08 -0400
From: romachka21@netscape.net (Roman)
Subject: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

Hey everybody,

I am so fired up on the Road Course events and Auto Cross events from all the talk that has been going on in the past 2 weeks.

Can some one tell me of a track somewhere close to Baltimore Maryland where they have open track events, or Road Courses or Auto Crossing.
I am so excited and have done some research but the closest one I found is like 4 hours away. I am ready to kick some ass with my VR-4 now that it has a brand new engine and it now the block is brocken in.

If you can provide links, or names of tracks and if possible distances with cost, then I would try to get there this weekend.

Thank you so much for the info.

Roman G.
94 VR-4 AAM motor etc... Never took it to the track. This friday I will hit a Drag strip.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:53:30 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

The closest tracks to you appear to be in Pennsylvania, Virginia or WV.
Go to www.drivingevents.com.
You'll see that there are no events listed in Maryland or Delaware.

Check the FAQs for tips on how to do this, or just ask.
Braking is the big thing, and we can help you.
Turn the boost back to stock for the time being, or you will just get in trouble.

Rich/slow old poop

>I am so fired up on the Road Course events and Auto Cross events from all the talk that has been going on in the past 2 weeks.
>
>Can some one tell me of a track somewhere close to Baltimore Maryland where they have open track events, or Road Courses or Auto Crossing.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:03:08 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

Go to Driving Events, www.drivingevents.com, and speak with Gregory
Gulik if you need to.  I've spoken with him several times and many of
the in-car videos are from his Porsche 911 .  I am trying to get some
from my VR-4 on his site as well.  You can sign up to be notified when
events in the states you select are being offered.  Great service.

They also have listed some AutoX events on there so it is not all road
racing.  That is just my focus so that is what I'll detail below.

You can also search and look at track times, track maps, in-car videos,
etc.

>From Baltimore, MD I think these are your best opportunities (in
distance from Baltimore) and give you a good place to start:

1. Rausch Creek in Harrisburg, PA (100 miles, 1:45 hours)
2. Summit Point in Summit Point, WV (120 miles, 2:00 hours)
3. Pocono in Pocono, PA (195 miles, 3:15 hours)
4. Watkins Glen in Watkins Glen, NY (355 miles, 6:05 hours)
5. VIR in Danville, VA (405 miles, 6:45 hours)
6. Mid-Ohio in Lexington, OH (435 miles, 7:15 hours)

Point is ... if you want an event that badly you are going to have to
chase the track that is open and available.  I'm putting on 6,500 miles
to help a friend at about 10 track events.  Hard to believe it is about
the same to go to the Finger Lakes in NY than down to VIR in Virginia.
I would have missed that on a trivia question.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Pittsburgh, PA

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roman
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 15:37
 
I am so fired up on the Road Course events and Auto Cross events from
all the talk that has been going on in the past 2 weeks.

Can some one tell me of a track somewhere close to Baltimore Maryland
where they have open track events, or Road Courses or Auto Crossing.
I am so excited and have done some research but the closest one I found
is like 4 hours away. I am ready to kick some ass with my VR-4 now that
it has a brand new engine and it now the block is brocken in.

If you can provide links, or names of tracks and if possible distances
with cost, then I would try to get there this weekend.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:14:45 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pocketlogger help

While the display is different, the information contained in the PocketLOGGER
and TMO logs is the same. The following web pages will help you understand
some of the log info.

http://www.vfaq.com/TMO/
http://www.vfaq.com/TMO/Tuning-Tips.htm
http://www.tmo.com/tmo-dlog/
http://www.stealth316.com/2-tmo1.htm
http://www.stealth316.com/2-tmo2.htm
http://www.stealth316.com/2-tmo3.htm
http://www.rtec.ch/3s_dyno4.html
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twinturbo/tmo%20datalogger%20tuning.htm
http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/TMO.htm

A "hesitation" may be due to improper fuel mixture for the driving situation
(the O2 readings might show this), an ignition problem (not directly measured
by the ECM but may show up in IPW, RPM, or O2), or a sensor malfunction (the
throttle position sensor or the engine coolant sensor, for example; both in
the logs). Understanding the datalogger output requires, in part,
understanding how the engine and its electronic components work. There are
many links on these topics on the Tech page at my web site.

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueyondermail" <martinberkley@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 1:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Pocketlogger help

Hi Guys
I have just received and set up Pocketlogger on my Palm and logged my first
run, only problem is i have no idea what im looking for, i have a slight
hesitation on light throttle but do not know what to look for on the logs,
does anyone have any instructions on de-ciphering the Pocketlogger logs?
Thanks in advance
Martin

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:31:01 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <romachka21@netscape.net>
> Hey everybody,
> I am so fired up on the Road Course events and Auto Cross events from all
the talk that has been going on in the past 2 weeks.
> Can some one tell me of a track somewhere close to Baltimore Maryland
where they have open track events, or Road Courses or Auto Crossing.  I am
so excited and have done some research but the closest one I found is like 4
hours away.
- -------------snip------------->

You probably won't find many world-class tracks close by.  The tracks in
your area that hold major events are Virginia Motorsports Park, Summit
Point, Lowes Motor Speedway, Carolina Motorsports Park, Summit Point
Shenandoah, and VIR.  I'm only listing NASA Pro Racing HPDE and autocross
events, since they are recognized as "school", and therefore are covered by
your insurance.  They also provide instructors for every skill level, and
have 'download sessions' after every run group, to analyze your performance.
You may find other tracks close by, but you might want to check if you have
insurance coverage for those events.  Even in this type of "gentleman
racing" where you don't swap paint, drivers *do* make mistakes.  (SCCA holds
events, too, but our cars are grouped with mostly race-prepped cars.  We
are, in effect, 'banned' from SCCA competition, unless we want to run
against "trailer queen" race cars).

When you get several 3S cars to enter an area event, NASA gives Team3S "club
status", with special parade laps and other perks.  And we also like their
attention to safety, with lots of equipment on hand at the tracks.  (Some
folks like the free child care, too).  Check out their site
www.nasaproracing.com.  And in the 'Virginia Region' (what you're in), the
local website is www.nasaracing.net.

We have a list of organizations (Porsche Club, Shelby Club, Vette Club,
BMWCCA...) that might allow our cars to compete - it's in the racing section
on our FAQ Pages...  But check on insurance coverage for any of them.  If it
isn't 'school', it's not covered.

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:29:31 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: 'nother cause of running hot

I was driving in stop-and-go on the freeway in 90 degree weather yesterday
in my 93VR4 when I noticed the temperature guage way above normal but below
red.  Shut off the AC and exited the interstate.  I had gotten hot enough to
destroy the t-connector in my boost guage sense line.  Turns out the
wiring/connector to the passenger side fan motor was corroded.  I squeezed
the wiring with pliers and the fan came on.  I will disassemble it tonight
and make permanent repairs. Any one else have this happen?  The wiring in
questin is the part of the harness that goes past the coolant reservior
overflow tube..

Chuck Willis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:24:12 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

> These are instuctions I gave someone else with
> voltmeter:
>
> 1.  Find the datalink connector under the dash in
> the driver's side.
> A.  1ST GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin
> 12.  Pin 3 is the
> third down on the left side, before the double
> space. Pin 12 is the lower
> right corner.
> B.  2ND GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin 4
> or 5.  Pin 3 is
> the third from the top left side of the connector (
> on the log side of the
> trapezoid), pin 4 and 5 are next to the right.
>
> 2.  Turn the ignition on.
>
> 3.  Look at the voltmeter.  The code is repeated
> many times.  Seven (7)
> short deflections is code =0, and means everything
> is wonderful.
>
> 4.  Other codes are:  1 long, 1 short = 11, G sensor
> bad.
> 2 long, 1 short=21, steering angular velocity
> sensor open
> 2 long, 4 short=24, speed sensor open
>
> These codes don't disappear until ingnition switch
> is off, even if you fix
> the problem.
>
> 5.  These codes disappear when you correct the
> problem:
> 6 long, 1 short=61, Front Right shock
> 6 long, 2 short=62, Front left shock
> 6 long, 3 short=63, Rear right shock
> 6 long, 4 short=64, Rear Left shock
>
> MFI trouble codes are read in a similar manner, but
> different pins.
>
> FIRST GENERATION - connect + to pin 1, - to pin 12.
> SECOND GENERATION - Connect pin 1 to GROUND and
> watch the CHECK ENGINE light
> flashes for same sort of patterns - long flashes
> (1.5 sec) are tens digit,
> short (0.5 sec) flashes are ones digit.  That gets
> you the same codes you
> would read on the Scan Tool.
>
> You clear codes by disconnecting the battery for 10
> seconds, reconnecting
> and idling the car for 15 min to make sure the codes
> don't return.
>
> Chuck Willis
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moreton [SMTP:moreton@zim.co.zw]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 2:11 AM
> To: Team3s
> Subject: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I've been trying to get the diag codes out of my 92 VR4 to establish what
> is
> causing the CE light to come on, which then kills the engine. I've been
> using a test lamp, and grounding one end on PIN 12 whilst touching the
> other
> end to one of the other PINS at the same time (I've tried all the other
> PINS
> 1-11 one at a time), but I'm not getting any flashes on the testing lamp.
>
> I've confirmed the obvious things ie. Ignition on, 12V tester working,
> battery charged. Any ideas on why I'm not getting anything out of the diag
> connector?
>
> Tony in Zim

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:57:47 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: tdo4 turbos waste gate

By establishing a controlled leak on the vacuum/pressure sense line you fool
the system into thinking it is operating at a lower pressure than it
actually is. Stock turbos can easily go to 14.7 psi (and higher if your
controller/plumbing fails).

I think Jeff Lucius' Stealth316 web site has a lot more rigorous explanation
than this.

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike & Cathy [SMTP:micajoco@theofficenet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:54 AM
> To: team3s stealth-3000gt
> Subject: Team3S: tdo4 turbos waste gate
>
> Are the stock TD04 turbos preset with a 8.5psi internal waste. If so how
> are
> these turbos able to boost past this setting? Mike S 92 rt tt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:03:45 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 'nother cause of running hot

I just pulled my radiator last week and my connectors were dirty, sprayed
them with some simple green and they looked fine.

Russ F
CT
93 VR-4  She's down but not out

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:30 AM
> To: Team3s
> Subject: Team3S: 'nother cause of running hot
>
> I was driving in stop-and-go on the freeway in 90 degree weather yesterday
> in my 93VR4 when I noticed the temperature guage way above normal but
> below
> red.  Shut off the AC and exited the interstate.  I had gotten hot enough
> to
> destroy the t-connector in my boost guage sense line.  Turns out the
> wiring/connector to the passenger side fan motor was corroded.  I squeezed
> the wiring with pliers and the fan came on.  I will disassemble it tonight
> and make permanent repairs. Any one else have this happen?  The wiring in
> questin is the part of the harness that goes past the coolant reservior
> overflow tube..
>
> Chuck Willis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:24:28 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

Page 17-25 of the CD manual shows the connector as two columns of pins ---
the top right pin is ground and the bottom left pin is the port output. The pin
above the empty slots is not defined for use with a meter --- anybody have
better information ??????????????

        Jim Berry

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'moreton'" <moreton@zim.co.zw>; "Team3s" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

> > These are instuctions I gave someone else with
> > voltmeter:
> >
> > 1.  Find the datalink connector under the dash in
> > the driver's side.
> > A.  1ST GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin
> > 12.  Pin 3 is the
> > third down on the left side, before the double
> > space. Pin 12 is the lower
> > right corner.
> > B.  2ND GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin 4
> > or 5.  Pin 3 is
> > the third from the top left side of the connector (
> > on the log side of the
> > trapezoid), pin 4 and 5 are next to the right.
> >
> > 2.  Turn the ignition on.
> >
> > 3.  Look at the voltmeter.  The code is repeated
> > many times.  Seven (7)
> > short deflections is code =0, and means everything
> > is wonderful.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:34:04 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

OBDI (1991-1993) Diagnostic Port pin identification:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-diagconn.htm

Sorry, I don't do OBD2. :)

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
To: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>; "'moreton'"
<moreton@zim.co.zw>; "Team3s" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

Page 17-25 of the CD manual shows the connector as two columns of pins ---
the top right pin is ground and the bottom left pin is the port output. The pin
above the empty slots is not defined for use with a meter --- anybody have
better information ??????????????

        Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:57:02 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Adventures in braking (+cryo rotors info)

>{{{I'm copying this to the Team3S list, since the cryo info below is
>important, and I'd like it in the Archives.  For those just joining the
>discussion, Merritt cracked a stock rotor racing his VR4 this past weekend,

Let's be accurate here. It exploded in a ball of fire. I broke the sucker into three pieces. Two of the pieces left the car and almost set the grass on fire at Turn 1. The third piece is still clamped in the caliper (I think). What's worse, I wasn't doin' nuttin' outrageous -- no bouncing off the ABS or standing on the brakes. Everything was...normal. Brakes were holding up fine, a stab before 1 revealed that brakes were present and ready for use, and no fade or pedal loss was apparent at the time. The rotor just up and broke itself.
Film at 11.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:12:11 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Adventures in braking (+cryo rotors info)

Well, this sounds like time for a real good brake kit ! I think only the
Movit with the large rotors will do it ... pricey but probably the much
better solution as cryo treated stock rotors :-( Where they crossdrilled ? I
thought you are running the Porsche calipers, do you ?

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:07:30 -0500
From: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: How do you all measure your fuel pressure?

- -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to get the high pressure fuel guage
attachment
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:23:06 -0500
From: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services
To: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
CC: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
References:
<Pine.BSF.4.10.10205071823380.97363-100000@speedracer.speedtoys.com>

The dealer doesn't have that part nor a cross reference and told me it
was not
available any longer.   I figured the fuel rail can't be that much
different
for all of the 3000gt dual overhead cam engines, can it?  Do you all
take your
cars to the dealer to check the fuel pressure?   Is there a name for
this type
of special connector?   Should I cut the high pressure hose and insert
my own
attachment to attach the guage?   Thanks.
Bob

Geoff Mohler wrote:
> If you have the PN, cant the dealer get it?
>
> On Tue, 7 May 2002, RJM wrote:
>
> > Anyone know where to get the attachment/special tool part number
> > MD998709 to connect to the high pressure end of the fuel rail to check
> > the fuel pressure (then connect my fuel pressure guage to the other end)
> > for my 1994 3000gt SL?.  I've looked around a it.    I have 2 fuel
> > pressure guages with hoses long enough to tape to the windshield but
> > none with this "special tool" adapter.  Thanks guys.
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn amy <glenn_amy@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie - Struggling with Diagnostic Codes

>>I've been using a test lamp, and grounding one end
on PIN 12
> whilst touching the
> > other
> > end to one of the other PINS at the same time
> (I've tried all the other

Whoa!  I'd be careful hooking up a test lamp.  A
voltmeter will put a much larger resistance into the
circuit, where as a test lamp is relatively low
resistance.

Hey you electronice guys, Am I right?

Glenn
Took electronics in High School
And that was some time ago.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:40:18 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Down Pipe Flex Section

Thank you for the input on this subject.  I'm glad that I did not see any
major problems ocure such as mounts breaking and large sections of the
exhaust falling off.  I just ordered a down pipe without a flex section.  I
am going having a custom single pipe cat-back made for my car.  If the guys
at the muffler shop will give me a warranty with their work then I won't
worry about a flex section.  If not, then I will have one installed just
after the catalytic converter.

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:03:02 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Black Smoke

[Willis, Charles E.]  Start by looking for simple things - the IC
hose popped off, what else might have popped loose, like the y-pipe or other
intercooler hoses.  How much boost are you running (trying to run)?  do you
have a real boost gauge installed (not the stock POS)?  It is possible that
your ECU has learned a bad fuel map by driving it home, and by correcting
the original problem (the loose IC hose) you now need to either clear it and
go back to default settings (disconnect the negative battery terminal for 10
minutes - but be sure you have your radio security code), or drive it around
a while until the ECU learns new settings.

> Questions
> 1) Would the popping off of the IC hose cause the car to stumble or is
> there
> a coincidental problem?
> 2) Could I have damaged anything by driving it home the first time it
> happened ? (O2 sensor , catalytic converter)
> 3) Can the crank angle sensor be intermittant ( without respect to the
> harness)?
> 4) Could it be power transistor /coil problem ? ECU?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:21:35 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil in intake piping, help please!

Well Quality Mitsubishi called today, they said they looked at the rear
turbo and it was fine. Also said that before I bought the car the rear turbo
failed and shot about a quart of oil through the intake, that is why there
was oil in there.
He said nothing about even looking at the front turbo. Would oil in the
intake path cause my car to loose about 100hp and not have a blow off valve
that makes any noise. Can any of you with stock VR-4s hear your bov? My car
makes no noise when I let off the gas, meanwhile my friend's talon makes
that nifty whoosh noise :). Waiting to get my boost guage so that I can
actually keep track of how much boost, or lack of boost I'm running around
with. The car drives exactly like a SL they let me test drive, can the rest
of you FEEL boost kick in? In my friend's talon when he hits 3500 rpm it
kicks you back into you seat...
He also drove the car around and said he couldn't get the transmission to
"crunch" in third gear. Thats funny because whenever me, my dad or anyone
else drives it they sure can feel it. I get the car back tomarrow, they are
trying to figure out why my key won't open the rear hatch...
Well I have 52 more days of warenty left, I'm sure I'll be able to find
whats wrong with it by then!
I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for the help!
Donald
- -1993 3000GT VR-4
(Stock)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "menalteed" <menalteed@yahoo.com>
To: <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Cc: "tam 3S" <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil in intake piping, help please!

> When I did my cleaning of the intercoolers there where
> several people that posted pictures of there up grade
> in progress, I didn't keep them, but links should be
> in the search pages. I used the service manual for
> some of the pre study on how the bumper is connected
> and didn't find to much trouble removing it, thee are
> a lot of bolts to keep track off and I used baggies
> for that. The plastic screws are a pain and I replaced
> many
> buying from local body shop supply sources as the ones
> from the factory are pricy. I also replaced the screws
> holding the intercoolers with good quality bolts. You
> need to remove everything to get to them so why not. I
> didn't remove the oil cooler just disconnected it from
> the brackets and worked it around the intercooler to
> remove the cooler. The main thing is to keep track of
> the difern't type of screws holding the covers around
> the wheel well and use patience and keep at it and it
> shouldn't take more then a hour or two to remove the
> bumper depending on staying organized. I used red tape
> around everything from the right just to keep it
> separate only because I had red tape around. The truth
> is the bumper is just a piece of light weight plastic.
> One more thing like everything in the service manual
> it shows far more steps then are really required. Once
> the mud covers and air scoops and all the stuff in the
>  under front is off, the bumper is only held on by a
> very few screws and bolts to the fender. If questions
> come up I'm sure you can get help here. The only
> problem I had is the very front plastic pins around
> the license Plate that needed a very small off set
> Phillips to get them disconnected. In several cases I
> used small dikes to just cut some of the plastic pins
> out. Again because of the several different types of
> plastic pins used, keep track of the type you remove
> from each area, maybe some white tape stuck to each
> hole with a small note would be helpful. A small
> electric drill with a ten MM end would speed things
> right along. Also two of the four bolts holding the
> bumper to the fender are nylon, be sure not to strip
> them. Last there is a weather strip between the bumper
> and fender it is glued to the bumper and should not be
> a problem but make sure it is not pinched or out of
> shape puting the bumper back on or you may wind up
> with a slight gap. Good luck and remember if you have
> done it once the second time is a snap. Now for the
> plum some members claim they remove the intercoolers
> without removing the bumper, I couldn't figure out how
> myself but maube next time.
>
> peter 92 tt stealth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:35:52 -0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

Also try www.autocross,com

You will see under the big "Autocross.com" a menu tab.  Click that and view
"Club list".

Have fun,

Rich
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: "Roman" <romachka21@netscape.net>; <Team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing or Auto Crossing tracks.

> The closest tracks to you appear to be in Pennsylvania, Virginia or WV.
> Go to www.drivingevents.com.
> You'll see that there are no events listed in Maryland or Delaware.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:04:07 -0400
From: "Samuel Mercedes Jr." <elrey@techcom.net>
Subject: Team3S: Air Intake Resonator

I was wondering. I just took of my air intake resonator on my 92' SL. I
really didnt notice much difference, or low end gain. My question is am i
the only one how didnt notice a change or do you have to do something else
in addition to that to make it work (i.e air intake). I was just curious to
know if anyone has hydrolocked there engine with a cold air intake that runs
straight to the bottom of the engine.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: menalteed <menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil in intake piping, help please!

Donald, When the rear turbo fails, then I guess they
replaced it or had it rebuilt. In any case one of the
steps in that process is cleaning out the IC pipes and
intercoolers, if they didn't do that, then that was
not good, a question I would put to the dealer.

peter 92 TT Stealth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:55:38 -0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie with a Dead 92 GTO - Help!

Some things to check:

1) Ignition module under the coil (already mentioned)  This went out on my
'91 VR4 two times!  I had the same symptoms that Rich F. described.
2) Temperature sensor for the ECU (this is seperate from the sensor for the
temperature gauge)
3)  ECU.  Check for leaking capacitors.
4)  Camshaft position sensor.

Good luck,
Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:45:39 -0400
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <IndyStealth@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Black Smoke

- ----- Original Message -----

> I checked the timing belt -it was fine, all marks in the right
places,tension
> fine. Front plugs all black soot one smelled of gas. Checked all
electrical
> connections - pulled them off put them back on.

Jay:  You probably just need new plugs.

I also had this happen recently.  Actually, my Y-pipe exploded from a
backfire.  The car continued to run OK while it was warm, enough to drive
1/2 mile. It stumbled if I pressed on the accelerator pedal, and belched
black smoke out the tailpipes.  I had to "idle" it to a safe parking place.
I replaced the Y-pipe, but the car wouldn't start at all the next day.

A knowledgeable mechanic checked everything over - timing belt was fine,
compression check OK, etc.  He pulled the plugs and they were completely
black -- totally fouled from the engine running in fail-safe mode, which is
very rich.  According to the mechanic, the computer isn't sensing *any* air
coming past the MAS (because it is coming in downstream where your
intercooler pipe is open), so it just starts dumping gas into the engine to
be on the safe side.

The mechanic put new plugs in, and it runs great.

You said your plugs are black and one smelled of gas, so it sounds like
you've got the same problem.  Change all of the plugs and I bet it will fire
up just fine.

Roger Roskam
91 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:41:25 -0700
From: "Hans Hortin" <hanshortin@37.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dodge Stealth ES

Hello

I have a problem that i cant solve.

The car vill not go properly.

1. Electic is ok. Have made a computercheck.
2. New sparkplugs.
3. New Sparkwires. (thanks for the no4 Jeff Lucius).
4. All injectors works at 700 rpm.

My problem is that is car on higher rpm goes on only 4-5 cyl.
Could the injectors be the problem?

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #836
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