Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Saturday, May 4 2002     Volume 01 : Number 831




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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:49:31 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: MVIC?

Hey guys quick question

What does MVIC do exactly? i know long and short intake runners. . but its a
technology that i dont hear bout often. on the 2003 Eclipse GTS it adds only
5 HP. can any1 explain in greater detail what it does exactly? thanx

Mike
97 SL

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:47:30 -0600
From: "Mike & Cathy" <micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Need help

I have been struggling to get my car to run strong. I have a new engine-k/n
filter-gutted pre-cats- test pipe-restrictor ring removed in boost
controller (1st gen car)- platinum plugs set at .35. Car runs great until I
put full load on it and then it wants to cut out. At first it seems to want
to run strong but sputters. If  I accelerate moderately its okay. Only when
I hit the turbos hard does it cut out. I've been told to set my plugs to .32
but with the minor mods I have I don't see this is the answer. Any ideas?
spark--turbos-what. Mike S 92 rt tt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:47:45 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: MVIC?

That's it...  in the n/a 3000gt's which also have it, it simply switches
from a longer runner to a shorter runner... That's it...  There are 6
butterflies, or small throttle body type plates and they all move at the
same time to create this effect by opening or closing the shortened
path...

I can send ya pics of the assembly in pieces if you would like...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:50 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: MVIC?

Hey guys quick question

What does MVIC do exactly? i know long and short intake runners. . but
its a
technology that i dont hear bout often. on the 2003 Eclipse GTS it adds
only
5 HP. can any1 explain in greater detail what it does exactly? thanx

Mike
97 SL

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:43:54 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help

I had that sputtering/hesitation earlier this year. I have a 2nd gen and I
did not have a boost controller at that time. Exactly the same symptoms.
Turned out to be spark blowout, just as I expected.

My sputtering sometimes felt very soft, like hesitation, so I thought it
could also be that my timing was getting retarded due to knock. Nope. I
installed a boost controller and the sputtering became much much worse.
Before I replaced the plugs and wires, I asked the list if that could be
anything else other than spark blowout. Received nothing in response but
confirmations.

One member, Casey Rayman, suggested that it could have been the ignition
coils having cracks. Said he fixed several cars by replacing ignition
coils. I went outside at night and looked under the hood with a running
engine. What a spectacular view it was. There were some little sparks
showing here and there, pretty much everywhere near the coils and the
wires. I touched one of the wires and my finger was... creating a tiny arc!
Cool, I thought. I replaced the plugs and the wires and sprayed the coils
with contact cleaner. Gotta keep those clean. The sputtering and hesitation
were gone.

I still get sputtering when I boost past 17 psi (on race gas). Need to
upgrade the ignition. Maybe replacing those new Iridiums regapped to 0.032"
would cause an improvement. Dunno.

Philip

At 20:47 5/3/2002, Mike & Cathy wrote:
>I have been struggling to get my car to run strong. I have a new engine-k/n
>filter-gutted pre-cats- test pipe-restrictor ring removed in boost
>controller (1st gen car)- platinum plugs set at .35. Car runs great until I
>put full load on it and then it wants to cut out. At first it seems to want
>to run strong but sputters. If  I accelerate moderately its okay. Only when
>I hit the turbos hard does it cut out. I've been told to set my plugs to .32
>but with the minor mods I have I don't see this is the answer. Any ideas?
>spark--turbos-what. Mike S 92 rt tt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:51:23 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help

do you have an aftermarket boost gauge --- if not why not ?? what is
the boost pressure [ not on the stock gauge ].

        Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:09:05 -0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

Well, I've just come back from my first run at the strip.  I ran a 15.04
with a pretty pitiful launch (reaction 1.365, cut me some slack, the
official was standing there talking to me when the tree started lighting
up).  I think what happened with my launch is I practice on normal street
and never had tire spin, but I did at the track.  Is it fair of me to
attribute this to all the rubber on the track or is it most likely my fault
somehow (got excited?)?  When I heard my tires start to spin I let up and
bogged it (sort of).  But even so I smoked the brand new Formula Firebird
that I was lined up with!!
But I had a good time and that's what counts.  I think I prefer street
corse though.  Even with my pitiful times, I beat everything in the street
class except an AC Cobra (replica w/ a 427 BB) and a very highly modified
Prowler (Put a 440 Hemi w/ NOS in it).
Before I went I took out my spare, all seats (ok, not all of em', I left
mine:) , all loose carpet, tools, and tore out my cat.  Are there any other
obvious things I should do next time?  Already gutted pre-cats, have a boost
controller (14PSI), and took a leak :).

Thanks
T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4
15.041@94.14
@ 4993FT Elevation

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 23:34:09 -0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
To: "Team 3s" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:09 PM
Subject: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

> Well, I've just come back from my first run at the strip.  I ran a 15.04
> with a pretty pitiful launch (reaction 1.365, cut me some slack, the
> official was standing there talking to me when the tree started lighting
> up).  I think what happened with my launch is I practice on normal street
> and never had tire spin, but I did at the track.  Is it fair of me to
> attribute this to all the rubber on the track or is it most likely my
fault
> somehow (got excited?)?  When I heard my tires start to spin I let up and
> bogged it (sort of).  But even so I smoked the brand new Formula Firebird
> that I was lined up with!!
> 1992 3000GT VR-4
> 15.041@94.14
> @ 4993FT Elevation
>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering your trap speed (I'm assuming that was the best or near),
your ET doesn't seem so bad but would be good if it were in the 14's.

I'm not sure how much the elevation affected you since there is
much disagreement about that for turbo cars. (NA seem to
suffer more)

Do you have your 60' time?

Depending on how much the elevation is affecting you, I wonder
if your car is making the HP that it should be with the mods you
list.

Must have been a lousy track or water on track since
generally they have a much better surface than the
street - or at least that has been my experience.

Hopefully I haven't started another debate on elevation and
turbo cars but it never has been settled/answered in my
mind.

I believe it does hurt turbo cars some - but not as much as the
NAs.  I'm willing to listen though.

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:17:30 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

Todd, from what I have read about elevation, you are correct...  A turbo
charged car will suffer at high elevation, although not as much...
Also, the higher the boost on the turbo car, the less it suffers.  For
instance, a 15 psi turbo charged car with 300 sea level hp, will suffer
less than a 8 psi turbo charged car with 300 sea level hp. 

Just my take on it... 

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Todd D.Shelton
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:34 PM
To: Team 3s
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
To: "Team 3s" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:09 PM
Subject: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

> Well, I've just come back from my first run at the strip.  I ran a
15.04
> with a pretty pitiful launch (reaction 1.365, cut me some slack, the
> official was standing there talking to me when the tree started
lighting
> up).  I think what happened with my launch is I practice on normal
street
> and never had tire spin, but I did at the track.  Is it fair of me to
> attribute this to all the rubber on the track or is it most likely my
fault
> somehow (got excited?)?  When I heard my tires start to spin I let up
and
> bogged it (sort of).  But even so I smoked the brand new Formula
Firebird
> that I was lined up with!!
> 1992 3000GT VR-4
> 15.041@94.14
> @ 4993FT Elevation
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering your trap speed (I'm assuming that was the best or near),
your ET doesn't seem so bad but would be good if it were in the 14's.

I'm not sure how much the elevation affected you since there is
much disagreement about that for turbo cars. (NA seem to
suffer more)

Do you have your 60' time?

Depending on how much the elevation is affecting you, I wonder
if your car is making the HP that it should be with the mods you
list.

Must have been a lousy track or water on track since
generally they have a much better surface than the
street - or at least that has been my experience.

Hopefully I haven't started another debate on elevation and
turbo cars but it never has been settled/answered in my
mind.

I believe it does hurt turbo cars some - but not as much as the
NAs.  I'm willing to listen though.

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 23:19:09 -0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: First Trip to the Drag Strip

>Do you have your 60' time?

60ft - 2.43

Thanks
T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4
15.041@94.14
@ 4993FT Elevation

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 01:30:34 -0400
From: "Rodriguez, Elpidio   x35617d1" <x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject: RE: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

>Hopefully I haven't started another debate on elevation and
>turbo cars but it never has been settled/answered in my mind.

>I believe it does hurt turbo cars some - but not as much as the
>NAs.  I'm willing to listen though.

If you're wiling to so listen to an engineer....

At higher elevations, air is less dense, i.e less air molecules per a given
volume, specifically oxygen.  Engine power is a function of how much fuel
can be combusted in the cylinder. Of course, that depends on the amount of
air molecules available to combust it. So, the less air molecules you get
into the cylinder, the less fuel that is combusted, and less power. Boost
pressure doesn't matter, as all that means is that the turbos are "pumping"
high pressure, lower-oxygen air into the cylinder.  Naturally, a NA engine
will get even less air because it doesn't have the turbo to "pump" in all
that extra air a Turbo engine gets. Makes sense? Gave it my best stab, at
least from a theory standpoint.

- -ROD

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:40:05 -0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: First Trip to the Drag Strip

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
To: "Team 3s" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 12:19 AM
Subject: Team3S: Re: First Trip to the Drag Strip


> >Do you have your 60' time?
>
> 60ft - 2.43
- ----------------------------------------------------
There's easily another .5 or more there
with more practice.

A little bit of spin is good - helps save the tranny
and prevents shock to the drivetrain but you might
try to ease up enough to hook up once you have
forward momentum.  Ease up too much/too quick
and you lose momentum creating a bog the same
as if the launch were bad from the beginning.

There have been times on the street when I
was completely roasting the tires but didn't
know since it felt like it was bogging.  Then
looking in the rearview and smelling rubber,
I knew what I had done.

It's a fine line and I don't practice as much
as I should or like some others do but at least
I still have my original 11 year old drivetrain intact.
(Can't say the same for the motor though)

1.5 60ft times are possible but eventually they tend to
drain the bank account very quickly.

I shoot for 2.0 and add mods to make up for it
afterwards. :)

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:45:54 -0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodriguez, Elpidio x35617d1" <x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
To: "'Team 3s '" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 12:30 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

> If you're wiling to so listen to an engineer....
>
> At higher elevations, air is less dense, i.e less air molecules per a
given
> volume, specifically oxygen.  Engine power is a function of how much fuel
> can be combusted in the cylinder. Of course, that depends on the amount of
> air molecules available to combust it. So, the less air molecules you get
> into the cylinder, the less fuel that is combusted, and less power. Boost
> pressure doesn't matter, as all that means is that the turbos are
"pumping"
> high pressure, lower-oxygen air into the cylinder.  Naturally, a NA engine
> will get even less air because it doesn't have the turbo to "pump" in all
> that extra air a Turbo engine gets. Makes sense? Gave it my best stab, at
> least from a theory standpoint.
>
> -ROD
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But isn't that always the case to some extent regardless of
elevation?  Even at sea level, air can be varied in density simply
due to ambient temps.

The question that has been debated is whether NAs suffer
more (as a percentage of their sea level HP for instance)
versus turbo charged.

Should the same correction factor be applied evenly?

Additional thoughts?

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:05:28 -0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

Well, I'm no engineer, but...

I seems to me that if the ratio of O2 to "other gasses" is the same at high
altitude as it is at sea level then the only difference is the
pressure/density of the air.  So if you pressurize the air then you should
regain the same amount of 02 per unit of volume as at sea level with the
same pressure.  Illustration: take 1 cubic foot of air at sea level and seal
it in a box, now without breaking the seal expand the box to 2 cubic feet,
have you lost any O2?  No, if we believe out friend Mr. Boyle, then it's
just depressurized.

There is on thing that this theory assumes and that is that the ratio of O2
to the other gasses that make up our air is that same at sea level as it is
on top of Vail pass.  I do not know if this is true.  Do we have any
meteorologists?

But there are many other things we need to take into account about the
effects of altitude.  For instance, Higher altitudes are generally colder
that lower, so our intercoolers will be more efficent when at higher speed.

>A little bit of spin is good - helps save the tranny
>and prevents shock to the drivetrain but you might
>try to ease up enough to hook up once you have
>forward momentum.

Hum, good food for thought.  If I have to roast something I'd wrather it be
tires than the clutch or any of the rest of the driveline.  And i suppose
that even if I let the spin for as long as they want I should still have a
better launch that most RWD or FWD.

Thanks
T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4
15.041@94.14
@ 4993FT Elevation

- ----------------

If you're wiling to so listen to an engineer....

At higher elevations, air is less dense, i.e less air molecules per a given
volume, specifically oxygen.  Engine power is a function of how much fuel
can be combusted in the cylinder. Of course, that depends on the amount of
air molecules available to combust it. So, the less air molecules you get
into the cylinder, the less fuel that is combusted, and less power. Boost
pressure doesn't matter, as all that means is that the turbos are "pumping"
high pressure, lower-oxygen air into the cylinder.  Naturally, a NA engine
will get even less air because it doesn't have the turbo to "pump" in all
that extra air a Turbo engine gets. Makes sense? Gave it my best stab, at
least from a theory standpoint.

- -ROD

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:30:20 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Best intake

Hi guys, I tried searching through the archives on this one, i guess I'm not
good at picking topic words, or this hasnt been discussed much?
What is the best intake to but for a 93 vr-4? the k&n FIPK looks good, but
$180 for an adapter and a filter seems a bit much, i was considering buying
a 2nd gen MAS adapter and putting a conical air filter on that, will that
work? What would you guys suggest/use?

PS: Tried searching for "Best Intake" got 1 result, searched for best and
intake got 465 results, searched for intake and filter got 500+ results, no
good way to phrase this?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:45:37 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Best intake

Why not search for "K&N FIPK" or just "FIPK?"  $180 is too high so shop
around on the sites listed on Jeff Lucius' page (www.stealth316.com then
Links then Speed Shops who cater to us).  I thought this was closer to
$120 for the FIPK (bracket included and this is a CARB certified
product).  Search for that and you will find hundreds of references.  Go
from there.

- --Flash!
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Donald Ashby
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 02:30
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Best intake

Hi guys, I tried searching through the archives on this one, i guess I'm
not
good at picking topic words, or this hasnt been discussed much?
What is the best intake to but for a 93 vr-4? the k&n FIPK looks good,
but
$180 for an adapter and a filter seems a bit much, i was considering
buying
a 2nd gen MAS adapter and putting a conical air filter on that, will
that
work? What would you guys suggest/use?

PS: Tried searching for "Best Intake" got 1 result, searched for best
and
intake got 465 results, searched for intake and filter got 500+ results,
no
good way to phrase this?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:20:21 -0700
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Subject: Team3S: Second Trip to the Drag Strip

Well, since we're talking about the strip, here's what I ended up doing
Friday night.

Best Time: Fastest MPH:

R/T: .567 R/T: .629
60': 2.057 60': 2.057
330: 5.764 330: 5.775
1/8: 8.813 1/8: 8.875
MPH: 80.40 MPH: 78.55
1000: 11.449 1000: 11.544
1/4: 13.666 1/4: 13.780
MPH: 101.11 MPH: 102.38

There's still a lot of room for improvement.  I'm still working on my
launch.  My biggest problem is paying attention to the light and where
my revs are at.  Get that down and I won't bog... :(  I did make it to
the quarterfinals though (bracket racing).  Sadly, this is the fastest
car in the Import Class where I race (Renegade Raceway, Wapato, WA).
Anywho, I'll let y'all know of how the season goes.  If you have any
comments, let's try to keep it off list and just e-mail them directly to
me.

Brad
97 VR-4, DNP Intercooler Pipes, Magnecor KV85 wires, NGK double platinum
plugs, Blitz SS  BOV, 19"x9" Axis Se7en wheels with 245/35ZR19 Toyo T1-S
Proxes, Bozz Speed Dual Cannon Exhaust and of course, the K&N...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:01:20 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dis 4 HO

First, many use a DIS4 (including me)
Second, the HO was not available when most of us bought the DIS4.
Third, not many are using it because it's not needed.

Without aftermarket coils it doesn't help anything but beeing a large
2-stage rev limiter.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
To: "Team3S" <team3s@mail.speedtoys.com>; "Starnet" <stealth@stls.verio.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:19 AM
Subject: Team3S: Dis 4 HO

> Was curious about this unit...  I have seen it advertised, and MSD
> claims it works on the 3000GT (all but SOHC models).  The HO version has
> 170 millijoules worth of spark energy, etc. etc.  What I can't figure
> out is why does no one use this unit?  Its only $330 from Jegs and
> Summit...
>
> Any ideas???
>
> -Cody

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:33:30 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Second Trip to the Drag Strip

Quick note...  One thing that eased me up a little when first going to
the strip...  Forget about the light entirely... R/T means nothing to
the times you get, and yes, its nice to have low R/T's also, but... If
you want a perfect launch, simply forget about the light, wait for it to
turn green, and then wait til you're ready...  That way there is no
pressure to launch at the right exact time...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Bradford J. Gay
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:20 AM
To: Team3S; 3SRacers
Subject: Team3S: Second Trip to the Drag Strip

Well, since we're talking about the strip, here's what I ended up doing
Friday night.

Best Time: Fastest MPH:

R/T: .567 R/T: .629
60': 2.057 60': 2.057
330: 5.764 330: 5.775
1/8: 8.813 1/8: 8.875
MPH: 80.40 MPH: 78.55
1000: 11.449 1000: 11.544
1/4: 13.666 1/4: 13.780
MPH: 101.11 MPH: 102.38

There's still a lot of room for improvement.  I'm still working on my
launch.  My biggest problem is paying attention to the light and where
my revs are at.  Get that down and I won't bog... :(  I did make it to
the quarterfinals though (bracket racing).  Sadly, this is the fastest
car in the Import Class where I race (Renegade Raceway, Wapato, WA).
Anywho, I'll let y'all know of how the season goes.  If you have any
comments, let's try to keep it off list and just e-mail them directly to
me.

Brad
97 VR-4, DNP Intercooler Pipes, Magnecor KV85 wires, NGK double platinum
plugs, Blitz SS  BOV, 19"x9" Axis Se7en wheels with 245/35ZR19 Toyo T1-S
Proxes, Bozz Speed Dual Cannon Exhaust and of course, the K&N...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 07:38:04 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

so there is no way for a knock sensor to be defective (or torqued
incorrectly) and pick up MORE (false) knock than a perfectly running knock
sensor would?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:38 AM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

The 1 range colder Iridiums do normally help but more and more I hear that
even those are causing problems.

Basically the Iridiums are only beneficial if used with an amplifier. But
even then it seems that our engines do not like them after a while.

Unfortunately the ultra-high rich condition also causes knock in our cars.
I saw the same in my logs and for sure the sensor isn't the problem (unless
it shows no knock when you bang on the engine at idle).

The solution is using either coppers but change them more often or stock
NGKs gapped to 0.032. When using an Accel Coil pack or the GM coils from
Accel the gap can stay stock. Please note that these coils must be custom
installed and need other plug wires too.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 04:56 03.05.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
>I have a '91 R/T tt with a 25k mile engine, 15G's, 550's, Walbro pump,
>VPC/SAFC, etc.
>
>I looked on my cd manual for the instructions to change the knock sensor,
>since I'm hoping it might have been torqued down incorrectly when I had my
>heads replaced (recently) or the engine installed, and saw this under the
>knock-sensor section:
>
>"When knocking occurs while driving under high-load conditions, the
>following problems are suspected in addition to the detonation sensor
>itself.
>(1) Inappropriate ignition plug heat range
>(2) Inappropriate gasoline
>(3) Incorrectly adjusted reference ignition timing"
>
>I've ruled out (2) because this happens regardless of where I get my 93
>octane at, and (3) because I had it checked.
>
>How far off does the heat range have to be to cause knock?  Is this only if
>you go "hotter"?  I currently have Denso Iridiums IK22's, which are 1 heat
>range colder than stock, and am getting (on the pocketlogger) massive (20+)
>knock at anything over 9 psi unless I run super rich (1.0v +) past 5500
rpm,
>and was thinking maybe this could be the problem?  Or maybe this in
addition
>to the sometimes problematic iridium plugs with our cars.
>
>Do you all think I should replace just the plugs with some coppers (BCPR6ES
>?) before I worry about replacing the knock sensor, or should I try to do
>both at once (I've never replaced plugs before myself)?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 09:20:29 -0500
From: "William Jeffrey Crabtree" <wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Best intake

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "'Team3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 1:45 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Best intake
Hmmm.....$180 is ridiculous.  I checked(on a lark) with a local AutoZone.
THey can special order the K&N FIPK for about $160(and they're in the
neighborhood, so you know you can trust them).
<<SNIP>>
 but
> $180 for an adapter and a filter seems a bit much, i was considering
> buying
> a 2nd gen MAS adapter and putting a conical air filter on that, will
> that
> work? What would you guys suggest/use?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:42:55 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

> so there is no way for a knock sensor to be defective

Defective not but

> (or torqued incorrectly)

this is possible.

> and pick up MORE (false) knock than a perfectly running knock
> sensor would?

then knock will be visiable at idle too.

Of course retourquing the knock sensor is always an option. Also the usually
rusting bracket for the sensor can be replaced.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Roger Gerl
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:38 AM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?
>
> The 1 range colder Iridiums do normally help but more and more I hear that
> even those are causing problems.
>
> Basically the Iridiums are only beneficial if used with an amplifier. But
> even then it seems that our engines do not like them after a while.
>
> Unfortunately the ultra-high rich condition also causes knock in our cars.
> I saw the same in my logs and for sure the sensor isn't the problem
(unless
> it shows no knock when you bang on the engine at idle).
>
> The solution is using either coppers but change them more often or stock
> NGKs gapped to 0.032. When using an Accel Coil pack or the GM coils from
> Accel the gap can stay stock. Please note that these coils must be custom
> installed and need other plug wires too.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
>
> At 04:56 03.05.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
> >I have a '91 R/T tt with a 25k mile engine, 15G's, 550's, Walbro pump,
> >VPC/SAFC, etc.
> >
> >I looked on my cd manual for the instructions to change the knock sensor,
> >since I'm hoping it might have been torqued down incorrectly when I had
my
> >heads replaced (recently) or the engine installed, and saw this under the
> >knock-sensor section:
> >
> >"When knocking occurs while driving under high-load conditions, the
> >following problems are suspected in addition to the detonation sensor
> >itself.
> >(1) Inappropriate ignition plug heat range
> >(2) Inappropriate gasoline
> >(3) Incorrectly adjusted reference ignition timing"
> >
> >I've ruled out (2) because this happens regardless of where I get my 93
> >octane at, and (3) because I had it checked.
> >
> >How far off does the heat range have to be to cause knock?  Is this only
if
> >you go "hotter"?  I currently have Denso Iridiums IK22's, which are 1
heat
> >range colder than stock, and am getting (on the pocketlogger) massive
(20+)
> >knock at anything over 9 psi unless I run super rich (1.0v +) past 5500
> rpm,
> >and was thinking maybe this could be the problem?  Or maybe this in
> addition
> >to the sometimes problematic iridium plugs with our cars.
> >
> >Do you all think I should replace just the plugs with some coppers
(BCPR6ES
> >?) before I worry about replacing the knock sensor, or should I try to do
> >both at once (I've never replaced plugs before myself)?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:19:10 -0500
From: "echeek" <echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Best intake

Can't find my invoice with a company name but the print out that I have from
the web site I bought my K&N FIPK shows I paid 133.62 for mine. (Filter
frame mounting eq cleaning supplies) shipping was 10.59 so the total paid
was 144.21. That was the cheapest I came across, though that doesn't mean
there isn't cheaper. I got a 4% discount by haggling with "Harry the
Haggler" at check out, so if any one recalls what site has Harry the Haggler
that's where I bought it. I'll look through my other stack of papers and see
if I can't find the web site again.

Eric C. 92VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Donald Ashby
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 1:30 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Best intake

Hi guys, I tried searching through the archives on this one, i guess I'm not
good at picking topic words, or this hasnt been discussed much?
What is the best intake to but for a 93 vr-4? the k&n FIPK looks good, but
$180 for an adapter and a filter seems a bit much, i was considering buying
a 2nd gen MAS adapter and putting a conical air filter on that, will that
work? What would you guys suggest/use?

PS: Tried searching for "Best Intake" got 1 result, searched for best and
intake got 465 results, searched for intake and filter got 500+ results, no
good way to phrase this?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 16:14:11 -0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Second Trip to the Drag Strip

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <bradfordjgay@charter.net>
To: "Team3S" <team3s@team3s.com>; "3SRacers" <3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:20 AM
Subject: Team3S: Second Trip to the Drag Strip

> Well, since we're talking about the strip, here's what I ended up doing
> Friday night.
>
> Best Time: Fastest MPH:
>
> R/T: .567 R/T: .629
> 60': 2.057 60': 2.057
> 330: 5.764 330: 5.775
> 1/8: 8.813 1/8: 8.875
> MPH: 80.40 MPH: 78.55
> 1000: 11.449 1000: 11.544
> 1/4: 13.666 1/4: 13.780
> MPH: 101.11 MPH: 102.38
>
> There's still a lot of room for improvement. 
- --------------------------------------------------------

Not much!  That's really pretty darn good.

Any improvement would most likely come
from a harder launch and lower 60' time -
possibly at the expense of your tranny
over time.  If I trapped at 101/102 I would
be happy with that.  Good job!

- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 16:11:12 -0600
From: "Justin Sturgeon" <justinstur@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: ECU problem in Boise ID

I am having a little trouble with my 91 Stealth R/T NA.  I suspect that it
is an ECU problem.  I am getting an "injector" code but all of my injectors
and wires seem to be OK.  I need to find someone in SW Idaho who would be
willing to swap ECU's with me for about 15 minuites to see if that cures the
problem.  The ECU # is E2T35676; I'm not sure what the MD... number is.  Its
for a 91, DOHC, non-turbo,5 speed, Federal.  Thanks for the help.  I can be
reached at 208-249-0799.

Justin Sturgeon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:33:13 -0400
From: "Ben M. Jones" <benjones@protechgp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Toronto DSM meeting

Does anyone know if there is a get together this Sunday at Yorkville?

Sincerely,
Ben Jones

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:06:18 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Best intake

Well I asked around on our local board, and it seems that eclipse/talon use
the same MAS as the 3000gt, I had a feeling they were the same but these
great people varified it. So what I think Im going to do is buy a adapter
for the eclipse that bolts onto MAS and lets you attach a conical filter to
it, Extreme Motorsports sells the adapter for about $60 and a k&n filter is
~$20. I think Im going to use that setup, my friend is bringing over his
talon to see if there is any issue with the filter running into something on
a 3kgt. Thanks for all the help guys :)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:02:01 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

The whole object of the turbo car is to provide it's own air pressure --- While there are
some limits as to what the turbos can compensate for, a good set of turbos should be
able to provide 15 psi of manifold pressure at 5000'. The stock 9b turbo is an example
of one that can't provide that kind of boost.

The 15 psi is a gauge pressure rather than absolute pressure. Gauge pressure is
measured  with respect to the existing air pressure --- at sea level, air pressure is
14.7 psi [ I'm going to use 15 psi ] so the 15 pounds of boost is added to the 15
pounds of sea level pressure to provide 30 pounds of absolute air pressure. At
5000 feet the air pressure is 13 psi [ I made that number up but it's probably close ],
soooooo --- the boost controller is going to provide 15 psi on top of the 13 pounds of
air pressure or 28 psi of absolute pressure.

Now the tricky part --- at 30 pounds, the air density is .1448 pounds per ft³ while at
28 pounds, the density is .1351 pounds per ft³ --- or about 7% less air density or
less oxygen to burn. If your turbos are up to it you should be able to increase the
boost to maintain the same air density, in this case you need to raise the indicated
boost pressure to 17 pounds which when combined with the 13 pounds of
atmospheric pressure equals the original 30 pounds of absolute pressure --- whew !!

I'm sure it's not quite that clean --- the turbos are probably less efficient and the IC's
don't have as much air going over them to do the cooling etc. etc. but the concept
is valid.

Does anyone have info on the NHRA correction factors --- how do they take into
account blowers and such ????

        Jim Berry
======================================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
To: "'Todd D.Shelton'" <tds@brightok.net>; "'Team 3s'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 10:17 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: First Trip to the Drag Strip

> Todd, from what I have read about elevation, you are correct...  A turbo
> charged car will suffer at high elevation, although not as much...
> Also, the higher the boost on the turbo car, the less it suffers.  For
> instance, a 15 psi turbo charged car with 300 sea level hp, will suffer
> less than a 8 psi turbo charged car with 300 sea level hp.
>
> Just my take on it...
>
> -Cody

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #831
***************************************