*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:02:13
-0400
From: "Chris McFarland" <
cm1994@qx.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
irridium plugs
I'm running same mods as you and have my plugs gapped at
.032" No problems
here!
Chris McFarland
93 Stealth R/T
TT
- -----Original Message-----
Also suggested gap for TT running
14psi, downpipe/gutted pre-cats, K&N?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:04:08
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: Team3S:
RE: water wetter, TOW COOL product
Just saw an ad for a product called
'tow cool' in Kragen's weekend flyer.
Anyone familiar with it? Is it
the same as water wetter?
I have not seen water wetter in regular parts
stores, so if its the same I will use it.
They also have an auto
transmission additive under the same brand name.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:16:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: water wetter, TOW COOL product
Ive seen it at the parts
stores as well.
Pep Boys sells WW.
Also, I saw a 90d drop in
tranny temps when I went from OEM to C+ auto
tranny fluid in my jeep while
towing.
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Zobel, Kurt wrote:
> Just saw an
ad for a product called 'tow cool' in Kragen's weekend flyer.
> Anyone
familiar with it? Is it the same as water wetter?
>
> I have
not seen water wetter in regular parts stores, so if its the same I will use
it.
>
> They also have an auto transmission additive under the same
brand name.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:14:15
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: ABS system removal
Geis,
Is this a street
car? If so then don't forget to let your insurance
company know that
your car no longer has ABS. This might raise the
premium on your car or
they might not care. Also, if you get into an
accident and the
investigator for the other people find that your ABS
was disconnected then
you will certainly be hit with more blame as they
will claim the ABS-equipped
cars can all stop faster than yours.
I can't say how much weight
savings it will give you but remember ...
the spare tire is about 20
pounds. The passenger seat is 40 pounds. I
doubt all the ABS
brake lines, brain, computer, reservoir, etc. add up
to anything much more
than 60 pounds (the weight of the spare and
passenger seat combined).
You see my point.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Geisel, Brian
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 16:14
I've always
been pretty annoyed with our ABS system. I was
planning on finally
getting around to removing the fuse, but I got lucky
and the system broke
before I got to it. I was thrilled.
Now, I've come up with a new way I
can make my ABS system stop
my car faster. I can remove it! Has
anyone gone through the process of
removing the ABS system? I'm most
interested in the time and effort it
takes to remove it vs. the weight
savings I'd see. Basically, I know I
don't want the system anymore, so
I'm hoping I can put it to better use
:)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:57:41
-0700
From: Yoss <
yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
irridium plugs
On Tue, Apr 30, 2002, Aaron Kealey <
aaron_kealey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Should i go with them, or is it just a
new gimmick material?
>From what I've read about Iridium plugs, they
are more robust than Platinum
plugs and can withstand better in a harsh
environment. It hasn't been until
lately that the engineers have
figured out a way to design Iridium-based tips
for the spark
plugs.
You can look at it this way: Do you _have_ to use Platinum
spark plugs in our
cars? No; you can very well use copper plugs, but
will end up changing these
plugs at a higher rate. And, platinum has better
physical properties than
copper that helps it be more robust at these high
temperatures. A similar
argument can be used to compare Iridium with
Platinum.
Given that the cost is pretty much the same, I've decided to go
with Iridium
plugs.
> Also suggested gap for TT running 14psi,
downpipe/gutted pre-cats, K&N?
I think you may also want to go with
one range cooler than stock, in addition
to regapping the plugs to
0.032".
Denso Iridium plugs come pregapped to certain standard
sizes. The stock
equivalent heat range and gap corresponds to model
IK20. You may want to go
one range cooler with a 0.032" gap in model
IK22.
- --
*******************************************************************************
Data,
I'm only going to tell you this just once. It never
happened.
-- Yar, "The Naked Now", stardate
41209.2
*******************************************************************************
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:13:13
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Not this again + Accell Buick GN coils
I have installed the
coil pack together with the cheap motorcycle wires that
came with the other
kit. They are not very good and I will replace them
soon. For a good
installation, I used the MSD coil adapter and connected it
to the ignition
harness using some original connectors (4-wire male and
female, from any
Mitsu at the salvage yard). It works fine with or without
the MSD.
The
size is as big as other coils but new wires must be made as the coil
pack
uses spark plug like terminals. If these coils are better cannot be
said yet
as I have no time to do some intensive testings. It started up runs
fine and
no knock so far. But as said these are not hard facts at all. The
only thing
that can be said is that it has the closest specs to the stock
coils and it
works fine without the MSD (I'm happy to get rid of this box
when the results
are good). Plug gap is 0.042
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> I am trying out that
theory now, the reasoning behind this was you can
> purchase the coil pack
for $85 (approx) then just figure out how to wire
it
> up to the
stock transistors. i have a bunch of connectors on order, I am
>
attempting to make this as simple as possible and with help from Jeff L
>
hoping to be able to give detailed instructions including wire colors
for
> all year 3S's. The other issue is the current coil solution
has extremely
> high level of primary resistance, so you are fixing one
problem (weak
spark
> output by the stock coils) but possibly creating
another (premature
failure
> of the factory
transistor).
>
> Roger presented 2 options to the list a few weeks
back and I jumped at the
> first one he mentioned and volunteered to test
it. Especially since it
> takes for ever for the delivery goats to
drop stuff off in the Alps ;)
Of
> course 2 days after the parts
arrived I lunched my motor (check you engine
> mounts and replace if
broken/worn)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:18:23
-0600
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: oi level
If the oil level is to be between the 2 twist on the dip
stick, what are the
2 v-cuts on the side of the stick just below the twists
for?
Mike S 92 rt tt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:22:27
-0700
From: John Sheehan <
Johns@KYSO.com>
Subject: Team3S: AC
Problem
I have a AC problem on my 93 VR-4. Freon is good, checked all
other
items as listed but it still blows standard air. So I took it to an
AC
shop and they told me it was the AC control module and would
cost
$1200.00 to replace. I don't think so !!!!!! Does this sound true?
What
else can I check ? Where is the control module located ? Could it be
in
the climate control temp sensor ?
I am at a loss until I get a manual (
same problems as others, on order
from dealer and now they say they can't get
it anymore !) I will order
the CD for
now.
Thank you ! John
Sheehan
93 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:22:39
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: Air flow...in or out???
Getting cold air to the filter
and the rest will do the radiator and ICs. So
what will a sliced hood help
then ? Will the water, oil or intake temp be
colder ??? Why do the race cars
have their engine covered or even in the
back then ? The cooling should be
done by the parts what are meant for this
purpose. This is why F1 cars do
have two large oil water coolers and no
slits and channels that lead air to
the engine.
IMHO, such nice looking hoods are indeed for show only unless
it opens the
path for the airfilter.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> I was
contacted by a list member with a picture of a hood for a 3/S
> that I
felt would introduce cold air to the intake area and to the front
>
manifold area and exhaust it out the rear. I can share this with
anyone
> who is interested. It is an aftermarket hood but it is one
of the few
> that I feel would work. A hole in the front gets air to
come in
> (although it might be behind the radiator which is not advisable
as air
> would no longer go through the front of the radiator) and then a
hole in
> the rear should let air escape. Maybe it could be used as
a windshield
> warmer on cold days. =)
>
>
--Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:27:29
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil and lifter tick
I have had Castrol 5W-40, Mobil 0W-40 and
Castrol R 10W-60 in my 93'3000GT.
Never had any tick. Go figure
!
Mitsu sells a small bottle of whatever-it-is that can be added to the
oil if
there is any tick. They had a Charisma with lifter tick, put this
snake oil
in and no tick after a minute or so anymore.
> I have
Mobil One 10W30 and also have lifter tick in my '93VR4. I have
>
Mobile One 10W30 in my '94VR4 and NO lifter tick. Go
figure.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:43:39
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: Air flow...in or out???
Exactly as ive stated before, our
cars..few cars..are air cooled. They
wont benefit from it.
Heat
is GOOD in many places.
Wanna drop oil temps more, drop in say..SAE50
race oil. (Of course, a
good synth like redline with the flow props of
10w30 would be
preferrable).
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Roger Gerl
wrote:
> Getting cold air to the filter and the rest will do the
radiator and ICs. So
> what will a sliced hood help then ? Will the water,
oil or intake temp be
> colder ??? Why do the race cars have their engine
covered or even in the
> back then ? The cooling should be done by the
parts what are meant for this
> purpose. This is why F1 cars do have two
large oil water coolers and no
> slits and channels that lead air to the
engine.
>
> IMHO, such nice looking hoods are indeed for show only
unless it opens the
> path for the airfilter.
>
>
Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch- ---
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:33:00
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: datalogger: knock with iridium plugs?
Installing Iridiums
with other coils or an amp only works well if a range
colder is chosen. At
higher than 15psi the coppers are best then the
platiums and Iridiums.We
indeed changed out the Iridiums and reisntalled the
stock ones (both gapped
to 0.032) and knock was almost gone (still present
but below 10). But we
never saw any gains with the Iridiums :-( The Celicas
around here have the
HKS plugs installed and on the dyno they did not showed
any difference. Maybe
they work good in a car but I haven't seen the
advantages
yet.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> There was a post on
3si.org a while back in which Roger G. stated that one
> of his customers
had knock with iridium plugs (presumably discovered with
a
>
datalogger) and some other problems that went away when he switched
them
out
> to some other plugs (either the copper or stock NGK).
Does anyone else
know
> if this is fairly common, or an isolated
incident that might have been
> caused by something else? I have
newly installed Denso iridium plugs and
am
> getting knock at even low
(11 psi) boost levels with my 15Gs, 550s,
Walbro,
> VPC/SAFC,
etc. I'm wondering if perhaps that is the problem.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:47:15
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: oi level
> If the oil level is to be between the 2 twist on
the dip stick, what are
the
> 2 v-cuts on the side of the stick just
below the twists for?
Minimum/maximum fill marks.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:07:38
-0700
From: Yoss <
yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE: Air flow...in or out???
On Wed, May 01, 2002, Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
Getting cold air to the filter and the rest will do the radiator and ICs.
I'm not sure how to parse this statement. Can you please
clarify?
> So what will a sliced hood help then ?
My
guess is that, in conjunction with the weather-strip mode, this will
help
reduce the ambient temperature under the hood. However, I don't
quite know
how exactly a reduced ambient temperature will help the overall
system.
> Will the water, oil or intake temp be colder ???
Atleast the intake temperature should be colder, if the ambient
temperature is
colder, correct?
>Why do the race cars have
their engine covered or even in the back then ?
For most part, the
engines are covered because it is either stipulated
explicitly as part of the
race spec (ala NASCAR,) and in part because the
engine manufactures just
don't want to expose _any_ part of their engine
design, lest the rivals may
get clued in on trade secrets (ala F1.)
The F1 cars and most formula cars
have mid-mounted engines, because this is
the best location for a
well-balanced car, all else being equal. However,
they still need to
work on getting air to the engines; which is why you see
those ugly
protrusions on top of the F1 driver's seat that let air into the
engine
bay.
>The cooling should be done by the parts what are meant for this
purpose. This
>is why F1 cars do have two large oil water coolers and no
slits and channels
>that lead air to the engine.
I know that
quickly rising engine temperatures are of paramount concern when
idling,
especially during staging before the formation lap, and the
near-eternity
wait on the grid for the front-markers, while the back markers
take their own
sweet time to get themselves situated in their grid position.
I'm not sure if
this means that air-cooling is a primary part of the cooling
system in F1
cars, or if the oil pump only functions when the car is moving...
The
motor is also decked with dry-ice before the race, to keep the
temperatures
down when idling.
> Roger 93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- --
*******************************************************************************
Data,
I'm only going to tell you this just once. It never
happened.
-- Yar, "The Naked Now", stardate
41209.2
*******************************************************************************
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:16:05
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: ABS system removal
The ABS pump is heavy, though, it does only
weigh about 35 -40 pounds...
I came up with a way to remove it, but, I
had troubles finding all the
necessary brake fittings required in metric
sizes...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent:
Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:14 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: ABS system removal
Geis,
Is this a street
car? If so then don't forget to let your insurance
company know that
your car no longer has ABS. This might raise the
premium on your car or
they might not care. Also, if you get into an
accident and the
investigator for the other people find that your ABS
was disconnected then
you will certainly be hit with more blame as they
will claim the ABS-equipped
cars can all stop faster than yours.
I can't say how much weight
savings it will give you but remember ...
the spare tire is about 20
pounds. The passenger seat is 40 pounds. I
doubt all the ABS
brake lines, brain, computer, reservoir, etc. add up
to anything much more
than 60 pounds (the weight of the spare and
passenger seat combined).
You see my point.
- --Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:29:01
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SynLube
Yes I am dead sure it was 150,000 miles. As I
said, you can view the report on the UPN news at
www.UPN13.com. I believe it was under Unit
13. I absolutely flipped. So far, I've heard that yes, you really
can go 150,000 miles on this oil. The only reason I can think of this is
because the oil isn't petroleum based. Though I'd be interested to see
what allows it. As I said, I'm in contact with reps from SynLube and I'll
be testing this out to see if its true.
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 30
Apr 2002 01:39:21 -0400
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SynLube
> John -- Are you dead sure it was 150,000 miles
and not 15,000 miles? I
> have seen oil after 10,000 miles and can't
imagine what it is like after
> more than 20,000 miles. It's gotta
get as thick as clay after that much
> shearing and heating and cooling
and coking.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 with Amsoil
synthetic
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:37:13
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SynLube
All right team, I've spoken directly with Miro Kefurt
from SynLube about using it in our cars. Sounds like its definately doable
and I'm going to test this. A few surprising things to note in his
letter. First is that he says in our turbo cars, we may need to change the
oil sooner, anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 miles depending on what load we put
on our engines and how often. Second is he says that turbo timers and
turbo spool-down are not necessary because the oil won't coagulate in the
turbos, provided their high quality turbos that are properly designed.
Anyway, here's the letter team, and I'm going to test this out with the
engine/tranny and let you know how it
goes.
===============================
Thank you for your Interest
in SynLube Lube-4-Life.
Yes, we have number of people using SynLube in
turbo charged cars, TOYOTA, HONDA, MORETTI (used it as factory fill), FIAT UNO
(Used it in Turbo Rally cars), INTERNATIONAL and Mercedes-Benz and IVECO Turbo
diesels as well as Freight liner HD Trucks (MB engines).
In extreme
turbo use (like racing) we recommend that you change the oil every 100,000 km or
50,000 miles or 5 years or 1,000 engine hours.
The oil can be however
reprocessed and you receive 100% credit toward fresh oil upon return of the used
oil (of course only for the oil you return).
In transmissions shift feel
and synchroengagement generally improves especially in cold conditions.
However even the best lubricant can NOT fix poor design and choice of
inferior materials in construction, so synchros that are not properly designed
or calibrated or are subject to greater than designed for torque or impacts
(fast shifts under load) will still fail, if you are loosing gear tooth or
synchronizer rings, that is bad material choice, improper hardening and just too
radical driving and shifting.
So no our products are NOT magical potion
that will cure problems of poor shift habbits and improper driving techniques,
for that you need to take driving course.
Getrag transmissions
especially the 6 speed are not all that good, and if used with stock power will
usually survive warranty period (3 years or 36,000 miles), if you however put
more power through them then they have been designed for, only slow shifting
especially to second gear will make them last, i.e., quick shift drag racing
with tire spin in 2nd is OUT !!!
We have customers that have eclipses
(many of them) and some wear out brake pads in 7,000 miles and clutch in 20,000
and have engine problems in 50,000 miles, on the other hand we have people who
go 60,000 on brake pads, have 120,000 to 160,000 miles on the engine and SynLube
oil WITHOUT CHANGES, and the SAME OEM clutch, so clearly it is not the vehicle,
nor the Oil, but the driver that affects the reliability and service life of the
vehicle.
In case of SynLube the NUMBER ONE purpose for it is the
ELIMINATION of frequent oil changes, the more power and better fuel economy and
lower CO and NOx emissions are additional benefit.
When it comes to
turbos, SynLube will extend service life in OEM and properly designed turbo
systems, due to tolerance of higher heat and dry lubrication to 1275 F (oil
breaks down at 325, and synthetic are gone at 500 F, turbo bearings typically
see 700 F) so the idling of engine for two minutes after hard runs is NOT needed
with SynLube.
However many aftermarket turbo systems are poorly designed
and turbines overspeed or are not properly balanced, again better lubricants
will NOT fix design problems and poor materials. Out of balance turbines will
still fail and over speeded will still damage seals and bearings (lot of people
who increase boost level do not realize that 10 to 15% more boost equates to 20%
to 30% higher speed and turbo that lasts forever at 6 PSI will fail in few
thousand miles at 10 PSI).
SO to conclude, YES you can use SynLube
Lube-4-Life in your car, but do NOT expect miracle bandage for non OEM
modifications, just a better oil that you do not have to change as often, and
which you can return ANYTIME for a credit towards fresh oil, OR a FULL refund if
for ANY reason you are not satisfied with its performance (NO TIME LIMIT, NO
MILEAGE LIMIT, NO EXCUSES) - just try that one with ANY other product!
Syn-cerely
Miro Kefurt
SynLube, Inc.
1-800-SYN-LUBE
www.synlube.com *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:58:42
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
SynLube
The big problem with oil is contamination from carbon, unburned
fuel, water, metal
etc.etc. --- you can't stop an internal combustion engine
from being dirty. Propane
engines are much cleaner but I still don't see it
being kept clean for 50,000 miles.
What did they have to say about filter
changes ???
Jim
Berry
=============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
To:
<
dschilberg@pobox.com>; <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: SynLube
> All
right team, I've spoken directly with Miro Kefurt from SynLube about using it in
our cars. Sounds like its definately doable
and I'm going to test
this. A few surprising things to note in his letter. First is that
he says in our turbo cars, we may need to
change the oil sooner, anywhere
from 50,000 to 100,000 miles depending on what load we put on our engines and
how often. Second is
he says that turbo timers and turbo spool-down are
not necessary because the oil won't coagulate in the turbos, provided their
high
quality turbos that are properly designed. Anyway, here's the
letter team, and I'm going to test this out with the engine/tranny
and let
you know how it goes.
>
>
===============================
>
> Thank you for your Interest in
SynLube
Lube-4-Life.
>
-----------------snip----------->
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:01:43
-0400
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Dave Black and Everyone,
One
week or two ago there was a thread on PROPANE going on. Propane
(or
better said LPG) has been done on many cars before. After reading
about
propane a little bit, it seems like we would get 10% less
power,
however, due to the octane rating of 110, we can advance the
timing.
Question: Can our ECU advance the timing by itself or do we need
a
timing advance gadget?
It's my understanding that we can make our
cars bi-fuel (to work on
gasoline or LPG at the flip of a
button).
QUESTION: Are there any serious tuning issues if I were to add
an LPG
kit with a 10 gallon tank and reduce the current gasoline tank to
10
gallons (by using a fuel cell)? Do kits (such as Dave Black's
neighbor)
really work?
The advantage to this seems to be that (in the
US) we can deduct from
taxes some of the money used in the conversion and
also get more power.
- -MIHAI-
95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:08:48
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Sounds like an Apexi ITC would
do the job for ya... ITC = Ignition
Timing Controller... That or one of
the many other ignition products
available would do the trick...
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Mihai Raicu
Sent: Tuesday,
April 30, 2002 9:02 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stCc:
mraicu@wayne.eduSubject: Team3S: Propane
or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Dave Black and Everyone,
One week or
two ago there was a thread on PROPANE going on. Propane (or
better said
LPG) has been done on many cars before. After reading about
propane a
little bit, it seems like we would get 10% less power,
however, due to the
octane rating of 110, we can advance the timing.
Question: Can our ECU
advance the timing by itself or do we need a
timing advance
gadget?
It's my understanding that we can make our cars bi-fuel (to work
on
gasoline or LPG at the flip of a button).
QUESTION: Are there any
serious tuning issues if I were to add an LPG
kit with a 10 gallon tank and
reduce the current gasoline tank to 10
gallons (by using a fuel cell)?
Do kits (such as Dave Black's neighbor)
really work?
The advantage to
this seems to be that (in the US) we can deduct from
taxes some of the money
used in the conversion and also get more power.
- -MIHAI-
95 Red
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:36:59
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SynLube
> All right team, I've spoken directly with Miro
Kefurt from
> SynLube about using it in our cars. Sounds like its
definately
> doable and I'm going to test this.
The thing I read on
their website that concerns me is that the "colloidal
suspension" particles
in their version of oil contain PTFE (Teflon). Sounds
similar to the
snake-oil that the ripoff artists selling oil additives
were/are selling with
their unbased claims. Interestingly enough, one of
the labs which said
that PTFE does nothing to help in engines was NASA (who
SynLube says used
their lubes on the lunar rovers, etc. (which by the way,
the lunar rovers
contained electric drive motors - so their motor oil wasn't
in them - maybe a
gear lube or something)). DuPont actually says not to use
PTFE as an
oil additive. I assume their particles are too small to get
trapped in
the oil filter.
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Slick_501.html#SLICK_005Maybe
they are for real - maybe they aren't. I'm not going to use my motor
as
a test mule though. When I pulled my motor apart to rebuild it, all
the
bearings and crank journals looked almost factory new after 55,000
miles. I
think I'll stick with what I know works - synthetic
Mobil-One.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:37:51
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
At 22:01 4/30/2002, Mihai
Raicu wrote:
>After reading about
>propane a little bit, it seems
like we would get 10% less power,
>however, due to the octane rating of
110, we can advance the timing.
Not advance timing but increase
BOOST!
I am not convinced about that propane. Why would I want to give up
10% of
power to run 110 octane? I could buy 110 octane at a gas station down
the
street for $3.99/ga.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:53:50
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SynLube
Sorry..dont buy it.
Exactly what
SAE/Standardized government tests were run, to prove this?
On Wed, 1 May
2002, John Stegall III wrote:
> Yes I am dead sure it was 150,000
miles. As I said, you can view the report on the UPN news at
www.UPN13.com. I believe it was under Unit
13. I absolutely flipped. So far, I've heard that yes, you really
can go 150,000 miles on this oil. The only reason I can think of this is
because the oil isn't petroleum based. Though I'd be interested to see
what allows it. As I said, I'm in contact with reps from SynLube and I'll
be testing this out to see if its true.
>
> John
> 1994
3000GT VR-4
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:56:28
EDT
From:
ThorHolth@aol.comSubject: Team3S: ECU
Problems
Well, my ecu problems (posted here two weeks ago) are
finally over, thanks
to Auto and Truck Electronics in Florida. Thanks
Jeff, for leading me there.
It took two separate rebuilds to get it
right. Apparently, when the
capacitors leak, they can really do some
damage to the boards downstream.
Just a thought for those who replace
their own capacitors..... Sometimes if
the problems continue, the capacitors
have done more harm than you might
think, better get someone to run a
diagnostic on the ECU.
For example, my Caps went, I replaced them (with
some help from my neighbor,
who's a real ham radio guy), and the problem
went away for two week. Then,
about two months ago, my check engine
light came on intermittently, and I got
a code "53", indicating that the #3
coil pack was bad. Swapped coil packs
and still the "53", so I changed
out the ignition amplifier pack. Still
"53's". Must be the
ECU. Okay, that was sent out two weeks ago, got it back
last week, and
then, I got a "14", which is the throttle position sensor.
What
gives? Well, as it turns out, the "hybrid board", which is downhill
from the caps, was soaked with corrosive electrolyte, and when it was
repaired the first time, the next circuit in line failed.
You can
never spend too much on diagnostics, I guess.
Anyway,
thanks Jeff, for the heads up.
- -Thor (1991 TT)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:04:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SynLube
Interesting.
Who knows what PTFE does when it
gets hot?
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:18:11
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SynLube
> Interesting.
>
> Who knows what PTFE
does when it gets hot?
The PTFE particles grow substantially in
size. That's what I was getting at
with mentioning the particles
getting trapped in the oil filter. I probably
could've worded it more
obviously. :-)
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:29:36
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SynLube
They also get sticky.
It'll build up on the
inside of an oil passage exit..like sand on the
inside of a river
bend.
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Matt Jannusch wrote:
> >
Interesting.
> >
> > Who knows what PTFE does when it gets
hot?
>
> The PTFE particles grow substantially in size.
That's what I was getting at
> with mentioning the particles getting
trapped in the oil filter. I probably
> could've worded it more
obviously. :-)
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:28:03
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
> I am not convinced about
that propane. Why would I want to give up 10% of
> power to run 110
octane? I could buy 110 octane at a gas station down the
> street for
$3.99/ga.
Yeah, but the 110 octane fuel won't come out of a pressurized
tank at -60
degrees F and cool the intake charge like propane will.
;-) The 110 also
doesn't help anything unless you are over 15 psi of
boost, so the time you
are just cruising around you are wasting money on
110. The propane
injection works when you need it - at WOT. The
only 110 octane I've seen
around is leaded and poisons O2 sensors and cats as
well, so figure on
adding $140 for two O2 sensors every 10-20 tankfulls and
not running any
cats.
I'd do a propane injection kit to supplement the
fuel in place of water
injection if I was going to do it (not saying that I'm
going to - I'm not -
nowhere to put the bottle in a Spyder for one
thing).
I wouldn't convert the whole car over to run pure propane and no
regular
fuel, that would be overkill, and then you need to find somewhere to
fill it
straight into the car for you. Last time I checked SuperAmerica
didn't have
propane filling pumps on their islands.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:29:05
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
SynLube
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Interesting.
>
> Who knows what PTFE does when it gets
hot?
Well in your frying pan it means your eggs don't stick
!!!
Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:39:17
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
underhood temps
Interesting.
"Underhood" temps would be cooler if you
were forcing fresh cold air INTO
the underhood area from base of windshield,
once rubber seal is out...BUT
ENGINE could COOL LESS WELL, because if you're
introducing air pressure into
engine compartment then airflow through the
radiator would be reduced by the
amount of "backpressure" coming from the
cowl. So, cooler underhood
reading...but potentially hotter
engine!
My problem at Road America in 38F was overheating engine (temp into
red
though never boiled over). I have GTPro carbonfiber hood, and do
not have
rear rubber seal in place. I know there is alot of underhood
pressure,
because I/witnesses SEE hood bowing up; witness said it looked like
2" up
from middle to rear! With all that pressure under there, wonder
how much is
from radiator (good!) and how much is from cowl and elsewhere
(bad,
decreases airflow through radiator).
I am going to have to manage my
frontend air alot better than I am now...
JT
From: "Zach Sauerman"
<
axemaddock@hotmail.com>
> I
posted describing things I did to lower
> underhood temps. One was replace
splash guards behind
> intercoolers with hardware cloth. A LOT of hot air
came out through there-
I
> could feel the heat next to the car after
getting out. I installed
> aluminum stovepipe to separate my K&N from
rest of engine
> compartment. I removed rear hood seal.
> I put
candy thermometer in engine compartment, measured temps.
> The heat shield
by K&N led to 40' temperature difference between
> engine bay and
filter. Rear hood seal lowered temp over rear turbo 90'.
> I hadn't
thought about how airflow behaved without rear hood seal;
> sometimes car
seemed quicker, sometimes not. But, it did lower
> underhood temps. Zach
Sauerman '94 Pearl Yellow TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 00:47:04
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
I know about the boost needed
for the 110 octane. And about lead in some
types of race gas too.
A
cooler charge but a 10% reduction in power? I would like to first see
someone prove to me that there will be a power increase in the
end.
Philip
At 00:28 5/1/2002, Matt Jannusch wrote:
> > I
am not convinced about that propane. Why would I want to give up 10% of
>
> power to run 110 octane? I could buy 110 octane at a gas station down
the
> > street for $3.99/ga.
>
>Yeah, but the 110 octane
fuel won't come out of a pressurized tank at -60
>degrees F and cool the
intake charge like propane will. ;-) The 110 also
>doesn't
help anything unless you are over 15 psi of boost, so the time you
>are
just cruising around you are wasting money on 110. The
propane
>injection works when you need it - at WOT. The only 110
octane I've seen
>around is leaded and poisons O2 sensors and cats as
well, so figure on
>adding $140 for two O2 sensors every 10-20 tankfulls
and not running any
>cats.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:53:37
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S:
RE: Syn Lube Not That Impressive Claim
Let's do a little ciperin'
on this wild claim...YES, my bretheren, I say
unto
you, WILD...
To make
it fast:
A pretty great engine might USE a quart of oil every 5,000
miles.
SO, over 150,000 miles, that is 30 quarts of oil put in to keep the
dipstick
level OK...but you "never changed the oil"?!?
Sounds like at
least 6 oil changes to ME, or an average of 25,000 miles per
total oil
turnover, quarts-added-wise.
25,000 miles per oil change isn't all that
impressive. And, if you use a
quart every _3,000 miles_, that is 50 qts
put in, 10 oil changes, an average
of 15,000 miles per total oil
turnover. Voila', we have a common
recommendation seen for "mere
mortal" synthetic oils like Mobil 1, etc...but
without the benefit of
actually getting the GUNKsludgeHeavyMetalShavingsEtc
out of the car that a
nice total oilchange gives you.
"Yessir, that's the same Axe my great
great grandaddy had. Changed the
handle 4 times, and the head 6
times...but it's the SAME Axe."
;)
Now can we hear an "Amen"?
Jack
T.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
>
I'm absolutely sure it is 150,000 miles, no mistake. You can check
out
the story at
www.UPN13.com or you can
read it directly from their web site
at
www.SynLube.com. Believe me, you're not
the only one who flipped at
reading that. So far I've heard good things
about it from another online
"acquaintence" (from another list) who uses it
in his Turbo Diesel RAM.
Claims he's put 24,000 miles on his truck since he
started using it 2 years
ago and its still running smooth and strong.
I'm still waiting to hear from
any others about its effects. I'm hoping
to hear from someone who's got
another turbo car, perhaps someone on the DSM
lists. I'll keep the list
updated as I hear more.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 01:16:36
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Custom struts and shocks for 3S
I found a cool suspension shop nearby,
www.morissdampers.com. The owner,
Evan, makes coilovers for pretty much all cars. He has a very diverse group
of customers. He can make 3S coilovers too if there is interest.
His
coilovers are couple steps above the popular ones that we could buy for
our
cars. They are pressurized with gas but that gas is in a separate
reservoir
and is separated from the fluid by a piston. That pressurized
oil-air
separated design cuts down on foaming and cavitation and provides
consistent
and repeatable resistance in both compression and rebound
directions.
The coilovers have both compression and rebound
adjustments. The adjustment
ranges are very wide - about 24 clicks for each
compression and rebound.
That guarantees that almost any desirable
performance could be reached.
Evan's company is pretty high-tech. He
actually uses engineering as opposed
to "scientific guessing" in his
designs. He is a former GM suspension
engineer himself and he has a partner
with a similar experience. They are
planning to hire a group of rocket
scientists to do CFD (computational
fluid dynamics) computer modelling to
speed up the development of new
custom shocks.
Many of the
aftermarket shocks that Evan tested do not provide nearly as
large of a
range as his shocks. He showed one shock to me. That shock had
three
settings for compression and three for rebound. Testing showed that
all of
the three settings were exactly identical.
Other high performance shocks
that have these advanced features retail for
four times the price that he
charges. Evan's business idea is to give folks
the taste of the advanced
technology at a reasonable price.
His ballpark prices are $500 for one
rebound only adjustable strut or shock
and $700 for one compression and
rebound adjustable strut or shock. That is
$1,000 - 1,400 per axle or $2,000
- 2,800 for the whole car. A little bit
too steep for folks who do not need
a race suspension but a great bargain
for those who know how to use
it.
My car driving skills are not quite there yet. But I race motocross
in the
summer and I know how important the suspension could be, especially
on
those double jumps and whoops. Modern shocks that are used on cars would
be
considered archaic if used on motorcycles. I am glad to see the
automotive
industry catch up.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:18:10
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane Injection (was alternative fuels)
> A cooler charge
but a 10% reduction in power? I would like to first see
> someone prove to
me that there will be a power increase in the end.
Cooler intake charge =
more mass air making its way into the cylinders
Cooler intake charge = more
timing advance and less probability of knock and
detonation
110 octane
= more timing advance and less probability of knock and
detonation
110
octane burns slower and cooler than 93 octane fuel. Whether it is
race
fuel or propane there's some reduction in power for more octane if all
other
conditions are the same.
But, since we can run more boost and
get lower intake temps (lowering it
even AFTER the intercoolers have done
what they can, even lowering the
compressed air temp to potentially below
ambient) there will be more air
molecules shoved into the combustion chamber
so we can extract more power
from the mixture. We are still running
regular fuel along with the propane.
Say for sake of argument you inject 30%
as much propane as you do gasoline
(feasible since the propane is gaseous and
the gasoline is liquid). Now you
are down to only needing to make 3%
more power to be equal to where you were
before. You can easily make up
that 3% (and then some!) with more boost.
Water has a 100% reduction in
power - yet water injection lets us extract
more power from our motors by
allowing us to raise boost. Propane should be
90% BETTER than
water.
Obviously running propane in a car has the potential to be
dangerous, and I
doubt that an NHRA dragstrip would even let you run with a
propane tank
hooked up in your car since they are so picky about nitrous
systems, but at
least there's a potential good idea here somewhere if someone
engineered a
proper design.
Matt Monet is experimenting with it
now... Watch and see if his track times
improve this season to see if
these theories prove out or not.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:54:36
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Better front mount oil cooler *
I agree that I'd put a better radiator
setup on first, then put a bigger oil
cooler on, if problem is too much heat
in engine. Radiator loses more heat
than an oil cooler. Still,
after a big PPE, Bozz or whatever larger
radiator, the larger oil cooler is a
worthwhile addition. It is simply more
heat radiation ability.
Since engine is only ~25% efficient (or whatever
low figure Otto cycle
internal combustion engines are), when you make 300 hp
you need a certain
amount of heat rejection ability. Increase it to 600 hp
and you need
double the radiator/cooling ability! Mitsu designed extra
capacity into
it, but with FMIC and ~450 hp on a cold day, my car was in the
red...need a
gauge with NUMBERS, a better ducting system to radiator/IC,
Water Wetter,
better radiator/fans, bigger than stock (read:
cost-compromised) oil
cooler...I really didn't like having to let off the
gas due to engine near
overheating! And if I'm there, many others are close
or maybe worse but
just haven't hammered it quite as continuously yet...
JT
From: "Matt
Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
> Has anyone
actually measured oil temps and determined there's
> real need for larger
oil cooler on turbo models? $400-700 would be
> good money toward
improved radiator if oil temps aren't as severe as
assumed.
> -Matt '95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:23:32
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: underhood temps
> My problem at Road America in 38F
was overheating engine (temp into red
> though never boiled over). I
have GTPro carbonfiber hood, and do not have
> rear rubber seal in
place. I know there is alot of underhood pressure,
> because
I/witnesses SEE hood bowing up; witness said it looked like 2" up
> from
middle to rear!
Wow, 2". But of course this can also happen at high
speeds due to the
underpressure on the hood (like a wing on airplanes). Hope
the hood is
secured well.
> With all that pressure under
there, wonder how much is
> from radiator (good!) and how much is from
cowl and elsewhere (bad,
> decreases airflow through radiator).
> I
am going to have to manage my frontend air alot better than I am
now...
Hmm, it may also depend on how well the hood seals in the front
too.
Interestingly, our air filter is getting cold air from the side of
the
radiator. I saw this by measuring the temps while driving the times I
was
trying to cool down the engine bay as well. Pop up the hood a little
help
with getting more cold air to the filter but it was only a few degrees.
On
no track I ever runned into temperature problems (the brakes did) with
my
93'3000GT. Of course the intake temperature was high due to the 13g
running
in high boost a long time (before WIS) but no weatherstrip removal or
any
other trick was neccessary. The underhood temperature was high but the
water
was normal. Even at idle I see no need to have slots in my hood as long
as
the water temps stays where it should !
In my Z28 this is a
different story. In traffic or when ideling in summer
the water temp rises
quickly and goes down when driving. Since I opened the
little non-functional
vents on the hood (boring of 224 holes was invloved)
and replacing the
thermostat with a "colder" one finally helped to prevent
the temp going up
above the middle. But in colder days I'm worried the
engine is hurt from
overcooling as the temp needle barely moves from the
bottom.
I agree
with this ice cooling at the drag strip as no cool down drive can be
done.
The radiator is then workign hard and the car will immediatly runned
hard for
13 sec or so. This is so unreal and one will find a way to get rid
of the
heat. But a slotted hood will still not do the trick.
As said, I like the
look and the weight savings of such hoods as well as the
possibility to get
fresh air to the air filter.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:35:26
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: underhood temps
Id start looking at an aero package to
keep air out from under the engine
bay..to help with the hood up
issue.
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
> > My problem
at Road America in 38F was overheating engine (temp into red
> > though
never boiled over). I have GTPro carbonfiber hood, and do not have
>
> rear rubber seal in place. I know there is alot of underhood
pressure,
> > because I/witnesses SEE hood bowing up; witness said it
looked like 2" up
> > from middle to rear!
>
> Wow, 2".
But of course this can also happen at high speeds due to the
>
underpressure on the hood (like a wing on airplanes). Hope the hood is
>
secured well.
>
> > With all that pressure under there,
wonder how much is
> > from radiator (good!) and how much is from cowl
and elsewhere (bad,
> > decreases airflow through radiator).
>
> I am going to have to manage my frontend air alot better than I am
now...
>
> Hmm, it may also depend on how well the hood seals in
the front too.
>
> Interestingly, our air filter is getting cold
air from the side of the
> radiator. I saw this by measuring the temps
while driving the times I was
> trying to cool down the engine bay as
well. Pop up the hood a little help
> with getting more cold air to the
filter but it was only a few degrees. On
> no track I ever runned into
temperature problems (the brakes did) with my
> 93'3000GT. Of course the
intake temperature was high due to the 13g running
> in high boost a long
time (before WIS) but no weatherstrip removal or any
> other trick was
neccessary. The underhood temperature was high but the water
> was normal.
Even at idle I see no need to have slots in my hood as long as
> the water
temps stays where it should !
>
> In my Z28 this is a different
story. In traffic or when ideling in summer
> the water temp rises quickly
and goes down when driving. Since I opened the
> little non-functional
vents on the hood (boring of 224 holes was invloved)
> and replacing the
thermostat with a "colder" one finally helped to prevent
> the temp going
up above the middle. But in colder days I'm worried the
> engine is hurt
from overcooling as the temp needle barely moves from the
>
bottom.
>
> I agree with this ice cooling at the drag strip as no
cool down drive can be
> done. The radiator is then workign hard and the
car will immediatly runned
> hard for 13 sec or so. This is so unreal and
one will find a way to get rid
> of the heat. But a slotted hood will
still not do the trick.
>
> As said, I like the look and the weight
savings of such hoods as well as the
> possibility to get fresh air to the
air filter.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch- ---
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 02:35:58
-0700
From: "Hans Hortin" <
hanshortin@37.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Repair the engine
Hello
I have a problem whit cylinder 5 (knock
sound).
When it's foggy or rain the car goes on only 4-5 cylinders.
Have
made a computer check and everything is ok.
Any
suggestion.
Hans
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:09:12
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Repair the engine
I'd first put in new plug wires, and if old replace the
plugs too.
May be arcing causing miss.
JT
From: "Hans Hortin"
<
hanshortin@37.com>
> I have
a problem with cylinder 5 (knock sound).
> When foggy/rain the car goes on
only 4-5 cylinders.
> Have made computer check, everything is ok.
>
Hans
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:22:48
-0400
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Philip,
The way I understand
it, you will give up 10% of the power at the same
timing you are
running. However, by advancing timing, you can get more
power than
previously had. Also, the 110 octane will allow us to
increase to a
higher boost safely without knock.
Also, due to the lower emissions and
complete combustion, you will have
less carbon deposits.
Price of LPG
is similar to gasoline (depending on where you live). Much
nicer to pay
$1.50/galon every day and drive on 110 octane, than to
drive on 94 octane gas
for $1.50 or 110 gasoline for $3.99.
I did a little calculation....
If the propane conversion costs $5000
(will probably be less), and if your
car goes 20 miles/gal, and if you
were using 110 octane gasoline from now on,
in 40,000 miles you will
have recovered the cost of your modification because
you are buying
propane that is $2.50 cheaper than 110 octane, yet has the
same power.
However, this is the most pessimistic figure because the
conversion will
probably cost less and because you may get a straight
deduction ($2000
for ULEV vehicle certification on your tax returns) from the
US
government. I think I have to look more into the tax deduction
thing.
I also don't have to get a Water Injection system anymore ($800
for the
Aquamist 2s + water tank). More savings...
-
-MIHAI-
95 Red VR4
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Philip V. Glazatov [mailto:gphilip@umich.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30,
2002 11:38 PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com> Cc:
mraicu@wayne.edu> Subject: Re: Team3S:
Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
>
> At 22:01 4/30/2002, Mihai
Raicu wrote:
> >After reading about
> >propane a little bit,
it seems like we would get 10% less power,
> >however, due to the
octane rating of 110, we can advance the timing.
>
> Not advance
timing but increase BOOST!
>
> I am not convinced about that
propane. Why would I want to give up 10%
of
> power to run 110 octane?
I could buy 110 octane at a gas station down
the
> street for
$3.99/ga.
>
> Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:46:57
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
There seems to be some confusion about
the 10% power loss --- it's not
necessarely true that your car will have 10%
less power. Propane has
10% less energy per gallon than gasoline --- proper
tuning as a result of
the higher octane can eaisly recover that loss. Many
race cars run on
methonol which has about 50% the energy content of gasoline
--- that does
not mean a 900 hp CART car would have 1800 hp if they put
gasoline in
the tank.
Jim
Berry
================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
>
> The way
I understand it, you will give up 10% of the power at the same
> timing
you are running. However, by advancing timing, you can get more
>
power than previously had. Also, the 110 octane will allow us to
>
increase to a higher boost safely without knock.
>
> Also, due to
the lower emissions and complete combustion, you will have
> less carbon
deposits.
>
> Price of LPG is similar to gasoline (depending on
where you live). Much
> nicer to pay $1.50/galon every day and drive
on 110 octane, than to
> drive on 94 octane gas for $1.50 or 110 gasoline
for $3.99.
>
> I did a little calculation.... If the propane
conversion costs $5000
> (will probably be less), and if your car goes 20
miles/gal, and if you
> were using 110 octane gasoline from now on, in
40,000 miles you will
> have recovered the cost of your modification
because you are buying
> propane that is $2.50 cheaper than 110 octane,
yet has the same power.
> However, this is the most pessimistic figure
because the conversion will
> probably cost less and because you may get a
straight deduction ($2000
> for ULEV vehicle certification on your tax
returns) from the US
> government. I think I have to look more into
the tax deduction thing.
>
> I also don't have to get a Water
Injection system anymore ($800 for the
> Aquamist 2s + water tank).
More savings...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:30:12
-0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Anyone that has questions on
the Propane kit, full propane conversion, power
loss/gain, etc. can contact
my neighbor Jeff at
jeffb@fireemup.com
or visit
their website at
http://www.fireemup.com. Remember that
they are currently
positioned for the commercial market and are just getting
into the average
consumer conversions. So, the website is directed at
more commercial type
of questions.
Jeff and I will be working together
to get more information available to
everyone. I will most likely end
up adding pages to my website to expand on
this concept.
Dave
95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net-
-----Original Message-----
From: Mihai Raicu
[mailto:mraicu@wayne.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:23 AM
To:
'Philip V. Glazatov';
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
Philip,
The way I understand
it, you will give up 10% of the power at the same
timing you are
running. However, by advancing timing, you can get more
power than
previously had. Also, the 110 octane will allow us to
increase to a
higher boost safely without knock.
Also, due to the lower emissions and
complete combustion, you will have
less carbon deposits.
Price of LPG
is similar to gasoline (depending on where you live). Much
nicer to pay
$1.50/galon every day and drive on 110 octane, than to
drive on 94 octane gas
for $1.50 or 110 gasoline for $3.99.
I did a little calculation....
If the propane conversion costs $5000
(will probably be less), and if your
car goes 20 miles/gal, and if you
were using 110 octane gasoline from now on,
in 40,000 miles you will
have recovered the cost of your modification because
you are buying
propane that is $2.50 cheaper than 110 octane, yet has the
same power.
However, this is the most pessimistic figure because the
conversion will
probably cost less and because you may get a straight
deduction ($2000
for ULEV vehicle certification on your tax returns) from the
US
government. I think I have to look more into the tax deduction
thing.
I also don't have to get a Water Injection system anymore ($800
for the
Aquamist 2s + water tank). More savings...
-
-MIHAI-
95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:51:25
-0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
My understanding is that
the big benefit from the propane injection is the
ability to turn up the
boost without knock. Propane accomplishes this in
two ways.
First, it is stored as a liquid at REALLY high pressures, and
thanks to
Boyle's law, when it sprays into the intake it will be a gas at
extremely low
temps (-60 claims Matt Monett). This is similar to the
benefits of
water injection - lower the intake temperature. A lower temp
air/fuel
charge is a denser air/fuel charge, meaning that at a given boost
level there
is more air/fuel to combust in the cylinder, and thus more
power.
Remember, .5L at 15PSI and 100C is MORE air/fuel than .5L at 15PSI
and
200C. The higher octane rating of propane (combined with the
lower
intake temperatures) allow you to turn up the boost without getting
knock.
This will once again put more air/fuel in the
cylinder.
Admitedly, the propane will displace some of the air, but the
overall effect
should be more power, and antecdotal evidence shows this to be
the case.
- - Brian
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002
8:47 AM
> To:
aa2345@wayne.edu;
'Philip V. Glazatov';
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane or LPG bi-fuel alternative
>
> There seems to be
some confusion about the 10% power loss --- it's not
> necessarely true
that your car will have 10% less power. Propane has
> 10% less energy per
gallon than gasoline --- proper tuning as
> a result of
> the
higher octane can eaisly recover that loss. Many race cars run on
>
methonol which has about 50% the energy content of gasoline
> --- that
does
> not mean a 900 hp CART car would have 1800 hp if they put gasoline
in
> the tank.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:08:48
-0700
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
SynLube
beyond expansion, PTFE looses all of it's "Slick" properties
about about
450C. It doesn't melt, fortunately, but it does burn and
carbonize like
other thermoset polymers. when it does thermally
degrade, it releases
fluorine amongst other hydrocarbon products. Not
sure of the effect,
but Fluorine is highly reactive with metals.
No
way i'm using this stuff in my car period. jsut don't buy the
concept. Plus, think about the false sense of security! when you
do
your own oil change, don't you check for other leaks and potential
problems?
Matt Jannusch
wrote:
>>Interesting.
>>
>>Who knows what PTFE
does when it gets hot?
>>
>
> The PTFE particles grow
substantially in size. That's what I was getting at
> with
mentioning the particles getting trapped in the oil filter. I
probably
> could've worded it more obviously. :-)
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:14:14
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: underhood temps
The hood could be bowing due to lift
generated towards the middle and rear,
but still have positive pressure
locally at the hood / windshield interface.
That is, the bow is due to less
pressure on top, not more pressure under the
hood.
I am quite sure the
hood mod theory is true, both from personal observation
and from race designs
such as Nascar which sip air from this area.
I'll try to do
some 'string tests' this weekend. In my NA the hood mod
results in over one
gradation(stock guage) temp reduction, so however it
works, it works. I'll
try to put some string on the edge of the hood, so it
can blow straight back
or backup under and into the hood, as well as some on
the windshield.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: xwing
[mailto:xwing@wi.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:39 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Re: underhood temps
Interesting.
"Underhood" temps would be
cooler if you were forcing fresh cold air INTO
the underhood area from base
of windshield, once rubber seal is out...BUT
ENGINE could COOL LESS WELL,
because if you're introducing air pressure into
engine compartment then
airflow through the radiator would be reduced by the
amount of "backpressure"
coming from the cowl. So, cooler underhood
reading...but potentially
hotter engine!
My problem at Road America in 38F was overheating engine (temp
into red
though never boiled over). I have GTPro carbonfiber hood, and
do not have
rear rubber seal in place. I know there is alot of
underhood pressure,
because I/witnesses SEE hood bowing up; witness said it
looked like 2" up
from middle to rear! With all that pressure under
there, wonder how much is
from radiator (good!) and how much is from cowl and
elsewhere (bad,
decreases airflow through radiator).
I am going to have to
manage my frontend air alot better than I am now...
JT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:32:50
-0600
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SynLube
My 2 cents. All the reading and research I've personally
read says that
putting PTFE into your engine can do nothing good. Your best
bet is a
high-quality full synthetic oil. No Teflon, no additives,
nuthin...
What synthetic doesn't do that dino oil does is breakdown, coke
and
deteriorate at a rapid rate due to the contaminants produced by the
internal
combustion engine. With synthetic oil, you shouldn't need a turbo
timer
because the synthetic oils will not coke up inside your turbo feed
lines
when they are at super hot temperatures after a hard run.
Look
at what jet aircraft use for their oil. That will tell you a lot about
what
would be similarly beneficial for our cars. Jet engine rebuild is
expensive
and failure while under use is not acceptable. Full synthetic oils
in all
commercial jets, if I'm not terribly mistaken.
Fram has a oil filter with
PTFE impregnated into it. Why would anybody even
think of buying this
thing?
Slick 50, ProLong, all the other snake oils are just that. Stay
away.
However, life expectancy of high quality synthetic oils is much
higher than
most people give credit to. Same with filters. There are test
kits available
so that you can submit a sample of your oil and have it tested
for it
efficiency. If it falls below a certain level of contamination, then
you are
notified and should change the oil ASAP. But I have sent in oil that
has
over 10,000 miles on it without showing any reason to change on the
analysis
that came back. Others have reported getting back analysis results
after
50,000 miles showing very little breakdown if any.
I find myself
falling back into the old routines though of starting to feel
like I need to
change it between 3-5K miles. And I've been doing some
experimenting with
viscosities so that has also entailed more frequent
changes. 0W30 seems too
light, a bit too much ticking for my taste. 10W30
seems just right. I'm dying
to try some 20W50 or 15W50 next for the summer,
even though these aren't
recommended viscosities for the VR-4. I don't see
how it could hurt for
summer. Cold starts in the winter would be out of the
question but it seems
to me that with a hotter running engine that a higher
viscosity oil would be
a good thing.
About the only thing I have been scheming to do that I
haven't tried is
wrapping the oil filter with a magnet to pull any metallic
particles out
toward the canister hopefully trapping them there. Anybody
tried the magnet
on the oil filter trick before that can pass along antic
dotes?
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4, Amsoil 10W30, K&N oil
& FIPK filter
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit, getting nice enough to
ride finally!
formerly reasonable and prudent, now just broke
on
5/1/02 11:08 AM, Damon Rachell at
damonr@mefas.com scribbled:
>
beyond expansion, PTFE looses all of it's "Slick" properties about about
>
450C. It doesn't melt, fortunately, but it does burn and carbonize
like
> other thermoset polymers. when it does thermally degrade, it
releases
> fluorine amongst other hydrocarbon products. Not sure of
the effect,
> but Fluorine is highly reactive with metals.
>
> No way i'm using this stuff in my car period. jsut don't buy
the
> concept. Plus, think about the false sense of security!
when you do
> your own oil change, don't you check for other leaks and
potential
> problems?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:43:25
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SynLube
> What synthetic doesn't do that dino oil does is
breakdown, coke and
> deteriorate at a rapid rate due to the contaminants
produced by the internal
> combustion engine. With synthetic oil, you
shouldn't need a turbo timer
> because the synthetic oils will not coke up
inside your turbo feed lines
> when they are at super hot temperatures
after a hard run.
- ---
Thats not exactly true. ATTimer or a small
cooldown period is still very
important. Not all synthetic oils are
created equally..some OTC synths
evaporate and ash as bad as good natural
oils.
> Look at what jet aircraft use for their oil. That will
tell you a lot about
> what would be similarly beneficial for our cars.
Jet engine rebuild is
> expensive and failure while under use is not
acceptable. Full synthetic oils
> in all commercial jets, if I'm not
terribly mistaken.
- ---
Until I see someone pouring Mobil-1 into thier
jet fighter they picked up
at the local Kragen, im gonna ignore that last
paragraph.
> Fram has a oil filter with PTFE impregnated into it. Why
would anybody even
> think of buying this thing?
- ---
For the same
reason you draw the simple conclusion that -all- synthetics
are as good as
the synthetics the military uses in jets. Lack of study
and/or
ignorance.
"It doesnt stick in my pan..so in my motor...."
Its the
same leap-of-faith.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#828
***************************************