Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth    Tuesday, April 16 2002    Volume 01 : Number 813




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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:42:28 -0400
From: "Alan Sheffield" <a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)

I don't believe everything I read. But, I have the advantage of living 30
minutes from Jeff. I know that Jeff checked the BOV by installing a known
good BOV and it did not remove the sound. Even if the "know good" BOV was
not good I would have expected a change in the tone of the sound.

To get this back on Jeff's topic. What other things might make the sound he
is hearing.

Alan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
> Don't believe everything you read,  then answer.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:52:34 -0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: High boost without water/alky injection

Is/has anyone run high boost(18-21psi+) without water/alky injection.(using
race gas of course).

My problem is that my EGTs get really high(1700F-1800F) and when I crank up
the fuel, the car starts to stumble because of an over rich condition.  I'm
running 110 leaded race gas.   My 02s are .96+(real rich).  When I try to
lean it out, my EGTs will go over 1800F at WOT(3rd gear).  If I richen it
up, the car starts to stumble because of an over rich condition.

I've got 15Gs with an ARC2 and 560CC injectors.  I'm running stock exhaust
minus the cats(gone soon, but could this be adding to the problem?) and
stock intercoolers.  I've also got the EGR blocked off.  I know that this
will cool the combustion temps when activated, but at WOT I thought the
valve was closed.

Anyone?

Mark Wendlandt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:54:43 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: 3S-Racers: RE: Team3S: Gingerman Raceway report - first impre ssions

kudos to Philip for sharing his first track experience with the rest of us
in such graphic detail!
Thanks to Flash for editing the video so those of us with slow computers can
enjoy it!
Everybody planning to attend the road course at the National Gathering
should download the track map and use it to watch Philip's video.  You'll
see what a demanding little track this is. It's only 1.9 miles and 11 turns.
Of the turns, #2, #3, #6, #7, #9, and #10 appear to be close to 180 degrees.
What looks like the longest straight (Phoenix Flat) ends in a 90 degree
right hander, #11.  I can smell the brake pads and tires already!

Chuck Willis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:56 PM
> To: 'team3s'; 3S-Racers
> Subject: 3S-Racers: RE: Team3S: Gingerman Raceway report - first
> impressions
>
> Try this page for the update on the Gingerman track report, pictures,
> and video by Philip.  (remember to put the entire address in the web
> browser)
>
> www.Team3S.com/~dschilberg/cars/events/Gingerman/Gingerman.htm
>
> --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:57:19 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)

[Willis, Charles E.] 
Can you guys record the noise and digitize it?  From the
description, it almost sounds like a belt noise or pulley noise on
decelleration.

> To get this back on Jeff's topic. What other things might make the sound
> he
> is hearing.
>
> Alan

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:43:23 -0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: Anyone interested in Union Grove dragstrip 4/20 or 4/21?

I was thinking of heading over to Union Grove, WI dragstrip this coming
weekend.  Anyone interested in going?

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:43:01 -0600
From: "Zach Sauerman" <axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: tip on timing belt adjustment

While playing with the cam sprockets, I would recommend taking advantage of
the holes that have been drilled and threaded in the head to hold the
sprockets still. I don't remember what size and thread those holes were, but
I used a bolt and a large washer to lightly clamp the sprocket- not enough
to bend it or apply sideways tension, but enough to keep it still.
This was very helpful since they are under a lot of tension at their timing
marks, and this way they will not try to throw a wrench across the garage or
skin your knuckles.

Have fun,
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:35:05 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: High boost without water/alky injection

Mark, is your timing correct ? Just a thought as often with the wrong timing
the EGTs rise quickly. Do you see any heavy retard (i.e. Datalogger) ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> My problem is that my EGTs get really high(1700F-1800F) and when I crank
up
> the fuel, the car starts to stumble because of an over rich condition.
I'm
> running 110 leaded race gas.   My 02s are .96+(real rich).  When I try to
> lean it out, my EGTs will go over 1800F at WOT(3rd gear).  If I richen it
> up, the car starts to stumble because of an over rich condition.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:32:22 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheels    Kinda OT

AZEV only makes the three styles C, E and H for the 3000GT. The composite
wheel is available in many sizes as it is a two piece design. We have now
two other makers but none of them makes oen that fits our cars.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To: "'Willis, Charles E.'" <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Cc: "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheels Kinda OT

> That's great Chuck.... one problem I don't read/speak/understand a lick of
> German!
>
> Hey Roger or anyone else can you please translate that mess below......

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:00:28 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <Brian.Geisel@COMPAQ.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New clutch

Best way to go faster without burning your clutch and tranny: Use someone else's clutch and tranny!

Seriously though, side-stepping the clutch will wear both your clutch and tranny, although often slippin the clutch will wear the clutch more and the tranny less.

I just abused my car for 110,000 miles (ok, 32k were original, but I beat it after that).  I trashed my clutch and tranny nearly everytime I pull out.  I got 50k out of my 1st RPS clutch.  I'm work'n on the second ;)  (There was a mueller that lasted like 5000 miles in there somewhere, but it was a royal pain).

I just dropped 1st and 2nd gears out of my car last week at the track.  Mind you, my car regularly gets thrown to redline, and my shifts are almost always side-steps.  It's been driven in the city and track.  (i.e., don't buy my car hehe)

Shift points really depend on your setup.  If you're totally stock, then the best shift points are right before the rev limiter... the stock turbos can hold stock boost that far.  If you've got a boost controller, then you'll need to shift sooner b/c the stock turbos cannot hold 14.8 psi all the way to redline.  I think people shift between 6500 and 6800 rpm.  You'll probably end up shifting into 3rd gear at about 70mph on a stock car.

Now back to the launch - You're going to have to abuse your clutch and/or tranny to launch well in 1st.  If I can assume you've got a stock setup, I'll tell you to rev it to about 7000 rpm and almost side-step the clutch.  Slip it just a little, but VERY little.  How much abuse you want to give it is up to you.  I was getting 50k miles out of my RPS stage II clutch with hard launches regularly.  You won't get that out of the stock clutch.

HTH,
geis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox [mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:43 AM
To: team3/S; Team 3S list
Subject: Team3S: New clutch

Well boys and girls, now that I have my new clutch installed, I must relearn
to drive my car. I mean, I'm taking it kind of easy here at first but my
G-Tech Pro 0-60 is up at like high 6 sec area. Obviously I need launching
lessons.

Where is the  best 1st to 2nd shift point? Rev high in 1st and 2nd to get
past 60mph or get it into 3rd?

All I got was a clutch job but it feels as if they put an entire new tranny
in there. Can't complain about smoother shifting.

So how do I get faster without burning through my clutch and tranny?

- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4 w/ new clutch as fast as ever but nowhere near:
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent, now sober and thankful

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:29:01 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)

The collective experience of this group says that the stock BOV is the only
one that makes the owl sound.  Anyone that's installed any aftermarket BOV
has had the sound go away, never to return.  You're right in saying that the
addition of the K&N triggers the sound, but it IS the stock BOV that makes
the sound.  The theory is that the K&N oil gets into the stock BOV and
causes the sound, but that this isn't an issue in the aluminum aftermarket
BOVs. 

- - Brian

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:55 AM
To: 'Alan Sheffield'; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)

I really don't care that he is running an aftermarket BOV.  The only success
I've had eliminating this sound is with the Boschur DSM BOV.  It's not
caused by a "bad BOV", it's caused by adding the K&N filtercharger.

Don't believe everything you read,  then answer.

Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:17:29 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Porterfield Brake Pads

Im getting new brake pads for my SL, so i figure its a good time to upgrade
if i can. i believe porterfield is my choice, but my car is not raced, just
driven normally, so will these pads wear quicker then normal, or will they
hold up better then stock pads? is it worth the 100 bucks over stock pads?>

- -mike

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:19:11 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Water cooling brakes

Yesterday I thought I found a breakthrough solution to brake cooling. Spray
water on brakes. But today my friend told me that they already do that in
Europe in the 18-wheeler tow-truck racing. And now I just found a Talon guy
who already has done this before me.
http://www.opentracking.com/water_cooling_brakes.htm

The guy activates his system simultaneously with his brake light. I think
an advanced system could be equipped with an infrared heat sensor located
close to one of the rotors. Then brake temperatures could even be displayed
on the dash.

Have you guys thought about this before? Any technical opinions?

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield Brake Pads

No..they'll wear quite nicely..especially since you say you wont be racin'
it.

They'll wear better, and feel a helluva lot better than stock.

I support the 3si discount thru porterfield as well, and on good days can
sometimes beat it.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 M3000GTSL84@aol.com wrote:

> Im getting new brake pads for my SL, so i figure its a good time to upgrade
> if i can. i believe porterfield is my choice, but my car is not raced, just
> driven normally, so will these pads wear quicker then normal, or will they
> hold up better then stock pads? is it worth the 100 bucks over stock pads?>
>
> -mike

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:30:06 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

I am using the pocketlogger and have the following mods on my '91 R/T tt:
15Gs, 550cc, Walbro pump, full exhaust, AAM intake, VPC/SAFC, etc.  If I
take off from a 5 mph roll (boost set to 14.5 psi) in 1st gear, the car
accelerates well, but right at around 5500 rpm, I can actually feel the car
retard the timing and the hood of the car drops a bit!!  If I continue on
into 2nd, then 3rd and run the car to redline it doesn't do this at all.
What would cause this?  On the pocketlogger knock shows up right about 5500
rpm also, going from 0 knock sum at 5000 to over 20 at 5500!!

If I set the boost to 13 psi, there is no knock sum anywhere but 1st gear at
5500, but here it is small; perhaps a knock sum of 5.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

It doesn't only happen from a 5 mph roll either, any kind of start in 1st
gear (at 14.5 psi) from 0-15 mph causes it to do this.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:41:51 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Water cooling brakes

>
>Have you guys thought about this before? Any technical opinions?
>
I use water injection. I tap into the windshield washer hose with a T, and run 1/4 in. rubber hoses from there to the rotors. I remove the plug on the windshield wiper motor. Then, whenever I toggle the windshield washers, it squirts water onto the brakes. The ww reservoir holds just enough water for a 20-minute session.

To get water to the brakes, remove the backing plates behind the rotors. Take these off anyway, because they block air flow to the rotors. I squirt a full stream of water directly on to the rotor. Mist doesn't work, because you need a mass of water hitting the rotors, and a mist is just blown away in the air stream.

The cooling takes place when the water flashes to steam on the 1400F rotors, so the water doesn't actually contact the rotor.

I squirt on straights, when I can pay attention to what I'm doing. I let the rotors cool themselves for a few seconds if I can (thermodynamics tell us that the cooling curve is steepest from the hottest point), then hit them with a blast of water.

Works for me.

Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:25:26 -0700
From: "Paul Prentis" <paul@ppeengineering.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water cooling brakes

go to www.seinesystems.com and check out the MPC system.  Its a bit over
done but it would be good for cooling the brakes or an intercooler mister
system.  That is if you can find a place to mount it.

Paul

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <team3s@team3s.com>; <3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water cooling brakes

> Yesterday I thought I found a breakthrough solution to brake cooling.
Spray
> water on brakes. But today my friend told me that they already do that in
> Europe in the 18-wheeler tow-truck racing. And now I just found a Talon
guy
> who already has done this before me.
> http://www.opentracking.com/water_cooling_brakes.htm
>
> The guy activates his system simultaneously with his brake light. I think
> an advanced system could be equipped with an infrared heat sensor located
> close to one of the rotors. Then brake temperatures could even be
displayed
> on the dash.
>
> Have you guys thought about this before? Any technical opinions?
>
> Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water cooling brakes

Theyve got it all wrong.  Theyre not dumping water straight on the rotor!

[/sarcasm]

Thanks for the link..gonna get something like that soon for my IC I think.

Upgrading the IC itself on the celica next month.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Paul Prentis wrote:

> go to www.seinesystems.com and check out the MPC system.  Its a bit over
> done but it would be good for cooling the brakes or an intercooler mister
> system.  That is if you can find a place to mount it.
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
> To: <team3s@team3s.com>; <3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:19 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Water cooling brakes
>
>
> > Yesterday I thought I found a breakthrough solution to brake cooling.
> Spray
> > water on brakes. But today my friend told me that they already do that in
> > Europe in the 18-wheeler tow-truck racing. And now I just found a Talon
> guy
> > who already has done this before me.
> > http://www.opentracking.com/water_cooling_brakes.htm
> >
> > The guy activates his system simultaneously with his brake light. I think
> > an advanced system could be equipped with an infrared heat sensor located
> > close to one of the rotors. Then brake temperatures could even be
> displayed
> > on the dash.
> >
> > Have you guys thought about this before? Any technical opinions?
> >
> > Philip

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:38:38 +0000
From: apedenko@attbi.com
Subject: Team3S: vr4 spyder

I am (and have been since day one :) considering
replacing my vr4 with a vr4 spyder. What should I look
for in addition to the standard vr4 stuff? I heard that
if the hard-top motor goes out, i have to replace the
whole top. Is that true?

Also if any one is interested in trading for a '95 VR4
in great condition with 72k (+ cash of course) or just
plain wants to sell theirs, lemme know off list

Alex

'95 Vr4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:38:11 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Water cooling brakes

Using a simple system, like Rich's with the windshield washer tank and
pump, is exactly what I had in mind. At least in the beginning to try it out.

I was also thinking about using the rear window washer pump and tank
because I never use them anyway.

My earlier question was, how could I get to those air channels inside the
rotors. I want to spray the water there. It looks like they have their air
entry openings on the outer side of the car.
http://www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/Brake_ducts/pages/Brake_duct2_wheel_straight_ahead_side.htm.
I can then run a tube around the caliper and deliver the water from the
outer side of the rotor exactly into these channels.

If my brake fluid boils, I can spray the caliper too. I can spray the tires
as well if they wear too much. I can spray anything. Just make a puddle for
me at some place on the track and I will be driving through it every lap, LOL!

I will be shopping for the brake pads tomorrow. I will go with the
Porterfield probably because of the discount, although I have not checked
the prices yet. Who makes the Hawk Blues and what's their website?

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:46:54 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water cooling brakes

Yeah. I want to spray the inside of the rotor's air channels.

But thanks for the link, Paul. I might need that thing to spray everything
else. ;-)

Philip

>Theyve got it all wrong.  Theyre not dumping water straight on the rotor!
>
>[/sarcasm]
>
>Thanks for the link..gonna get something like that soon for my IC I think.
>
>Upgrading the IC itself on the celica next month.
>
>On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Paul Prentis wrote:
>
> > go to www.seinesystems.com and check out the MPC system.  Its a bit over
> > done but it would be good for cooling the brakes or an intercooler mister
> > system.  That is if you can find a place to mount it.
> >
> > Paul

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:50:56 EDT
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: What injectors are these?

I am trying to find out the CC and impedence of the following injectors-They
have a green top and  each has numbers of SMD 240 and IMP 534 on the tops. 
I've spent a couple of hours surfing around and have found nothing but a
comment about "2nd gen green top injectors for a turbo DSM". These injectors
are NOT from a DSM, so I don't know if they are the same. They also should
have a part number of MD189021. If you have any info about these injectors,
please post or email me directly.
Thanks!
Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 01:25:32 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: spraying channels

At 12:46 AM 4/16/02 -0400, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>Yeah. I want to spray the inside of the rotor's air channels.
>
Maybe the best way to do this is to leave the backing plate on, and solder a metal tubing connector to it. That way, you can just pump as much water as you want in there. It'll get trapped by the backing plate, flash to steam, and the only way out will be through the air channels.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:37:56 +0000
From: apedenko@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: spraying channels

that would be an interesting solder job - you'd have to
weld it on there with some heavy duty stuff or it'd
just melt.

Alex
> At 12:46 AM 4/16/02 -0400, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
> >Yeah. I want to spray the inside of the rotor's air channels.
> >
> Maybe the best way to do this is to leave the backing plate on, and solder a
> metal tubing connector to it. That way, you can just pump as much water as you
> want in there. It'll get trapped by the backing plate, flash to steam, and the
> only way out will be through the air channels.
>
> Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:28:02 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

it's not overboosting because I have my turbo timer set on peak hold and it
shows that it doesn't.  Why would leaning out the mixture ever decrease
knock?  Thanks for the suggestions, I'm just curious as to the reasoning
behind it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: noble [mailto:nketo@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 3:44 AM
To: Bill vp
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

Sounds like you're overboosting momentarily in first gear.
Most boost controllers will do this; simply adjust your gain lower, so
that 1st and 2nd gear have no knock sums at all.

I usually hit 17psi VERY quickly in first, despite a 15psi setting.
I've since adjusted the controller to do the opposite; 15psi in first, 17psi
in the higher gears.
Leaning out your fuel settings might help as well.

- -Noble

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bill vp <billvp@highstream.net>
To: team3/S <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:30 PM
Subject: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

> I am using the pocketlogger and have the following mods on my '91 R/T tt:
> 15Gs, 550cc, Walbro pump, full exhaust, AAM intake, VPC/SAFC, etc.  If I
> take off from a 5 mph roll (boost set to 14.5 psi) in 1st gear, the car
> accelerates well, but right at around 5500 rpm, I can actually feel the
car
> retard the timing and the hood of the car drops a bit!!  If I continue on
> into 2nd, then 3rd and run the car to redline it doesn't do this at all.
> What would cause this?  On the pocketlogger knock shows up right about
5500
> rpm also, going from 0 knock sum at 5000 to over 20 at 5500!!
>
> If I set the boost to 13 psi, there is no knock sum anywhere but 1st gear
at
> 5500, but here it is small; perhaps a knock sum of 5.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas on this?
>
> It doesn't only happen from a 5 mph roll either, any kind of start in 1st
> gear (at 14.5 psi) from 0-15 mph causes it to do this.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:50:47 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

Two possible reasons :
- - VPC (as it often is too lean or too rich in this area). Remember, the
fuel map is stock and rich in the lower load area.Now the car has more load
and you must compensate this with the VPC/AFC and whatever settings.
- - Motor mounts. They indeed produce knock in 1st gear if old. Try to do the
same test in second with the same rpm range.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 22:30 15.04.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
>I am using the pocketlogger and have the following mods on my '91 R/T tt:
>15Gs, 550cc, Walbro pump, full exhaust, AAM intake, VPC/SAFC, etc.  If I
>take off from a 5 mph roll (boost set to 14.5 psi) in 1st gear, the car
>accelerates well, but right at around 5500 rpm, I can actually feel the car
>retard the timing and the hood of the car drops a bit!!  If I continue on
>into 2nd, then 3rd and run the car to redline it doesn't do this at all.
>What would cause this?  On the pocketlogger knock shows up right about 5500
>rpm also, going from 0 knock sum at 5000 to over 20 at 5500!!
>
>If I set the boost to 13 psi, there is no knock sum anywhere but 1st gear at
>5500, but here it is small; perhaps a knock sum of 5.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas on this?
>
>It doesn't only happen from a 5 mph roll either, any kind of start in 1st
>gear (at 14.5 psi) from 0-15 mph causes it to do this.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:34:15 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

I have the SAFC set to deliver more fuel in this rpm range, and the o2 (both
are new) reads 0.98v on the pocketlogger at those rpms.

If I start in 2nd or 3rd, whenever I start I get some knock right away,
which then goes away as the rpms go up; by 5500 rpm it is gone entirely.  I
have heard others say that they see knock when going WOT from cruising, is
that the general consensus (that it's normal)?

What is a good way to check if the motor mounts are bad?  Should I be able
to see the engine move a lot if they are bad by revving in neutral?  If I
rev the engine up in neutral, there is no knock on the pocketlogger.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 3:51 AM
To: team3/S
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

Two possible reasons :
- - VPC (as it often is too lean or too rich in this area). Remember, the
fuel map is stock and rich in the lower load area.Now the car has more load
and you must compensate this with the VPC/AFC and whatever settings.
- - Motor mounts. They indeed produce knock in 1st gear if old. Try to do the
same test in second with the same rpm range.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 22:30 15.04.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
>I am using the pocketlogger and have the following mods on my '91 R/T tt:
>15Gs, 550cc, Walbro pump, full exhaust, AAM intake, VPC/SAFC, etc.  If I
>take off from a 5 mph roll (boost set to 14.5 psi) in 1st gear, the car
>accelerates well, but right at around 5500 rpm, I can actually feel the car
>retard the timing and the hood of the car drops a bit!!  If I continue on
>into 2nd, then 3rd and run the car to redline it doesn't do this at all.
>What would cause this?  On the pocketlogger knock shows up right about 5500
>rpm also, going from 0 knock sum at 5000 to over 20 at 5500!!
>
>If I set the boost to 13 psi, there is no knock sum anywhere but 1st gear
at
>5500, but here it is small; perhaps a knock sum of 5.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas on this?
>
>It doesn't only happen from a 5 mph roll either, any kind of start in 1st
>gear (at 14.5 psi) from 0-15 mph causes it to do this.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:31:10 -0700
From: "Hans Hortin" <hanshortin@37.com>
Subject: Team3S: Aircondition

Hello

Have a problem.
Have had my car in the garage for 3 mounts.
Now my aircondition is opposite from before.
When i start AC r/m goes down instead of increase at 1000 r/m.

??

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:35:42 -0700
From: "Hans Hortin" <hanshortin@37.com>
Subject: Team3S: Gearbox.

Hello

I lose hyudralicoil when i drive.
And the gear get "skrrrrr".
When i put in new oil the "skrrr" in in nr 1 and 3.
After a whike the "skree" is in nr 2.

I use Bio-Hyd-oil.

The car come from US and what do they use for oil there?

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:39:07 -0700
From: "Hans Hortin" <hanshortin@37.com>
Subject: Team3S: Engine I cant get no 6 cyl.

Hello

When i started the car after a garagetime only 5 cyl is ok.
Tried everything and the problem is when the car is out in foggy
wheater.~When its cold and hot everything is ok.
Everything works.

Any suggestion?

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:38:36 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Aircondition

My car does this also.  I have replaced the ISC motor and done the ECM
capacitor replacements (also had problems with the car dying at idle
occasionally) and it still idles lower with the air on. ???

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Hans Hortin
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:31 AM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Aircondition

Hello

Have a problem.
Have had my car in the garage for 3 mounts.
Now my aircondition is opposite from before.
When i start AC r/m goes down instead of increase at 1000 r/m.

??

Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:54:05 -0700
From: Andrew Woll <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

Hi Roger:  Can you explain how motor mounts can cause knock in first gear?
Will it cause a noise at idle also?  I have a noise at idle and first that I
thought was valve tick, but I have never been able to get rid of it. It
drives me crazy. Maybe it is caused by motor mounts. How hard are they to
replace?

Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: "team3/S" <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: knock in 1st gear, but not 2nd or 3rd?

> Two possible reasons :
> - VPC (as it often is too lean or too rich in this area). Remember, the
> fuel map is stock and rich in the lower load area.Now the car has more
load
> and you must compensate this with the VPC/AFC and whatever settings.
> - Motor mounts. They indeed produce knock in 1st gear if old. Try to do
the
> same test in second with the same rpm range.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
> At 22:30 15.04.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
> >I am using the pocketlogger and have the following mods on my '91 R/T tt:
> >15Gs, 550cc, Walbro pump, full exhaust, AAM intake, VPC/SAFC, etc.  If I
> >take off from a 5 mph roll (boost set to 14.5 psi) in 1st gear, the car
> >accelerates well, but right at around 5500 rpm, I can actually feel the
car
> >retard the timing and the hood of the car drops a bit!!  If I continue on
> >into 2nd, then 3rd and run the car to redline it doesn't do this at all.
> >What would cause this?  On the pocketlogger knock shows up right about
5500
> >rpm also, going from 0 knock sum at 5000 to over 20 at 5500!!
> >
> >If I set the boost to 13 psi, there is no knock sum anywhere but 1st gear
at
> >5500, but here it is small; perhaps a knock sum of 5.
> >
> >Does anyone have any ideas on this?
> >
> >It doesn't only happen from a 5 mph roll either, any kind of start in 1st
> >gear (at 14.5 psi) from 0-15 mph causes it to do this.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:00:51 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Aircondition

There is a relay that comes on when the A/C clutch is engaged that raises
the rpm.  Check/replace the relay.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill vp [SMTP:billvp@highstream.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:39 AM
> To: team3/S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Aircondition
>
> My car does this also.  I have replaced the ISC motor and done the ECM
> capacitor replacements (also had problems with the car dying at idle
> occasionally) and it still idles lower with the air on. ???
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Hans Hortin
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:31 AM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Aircondition
>
>
> Hello
>
> Have a problem.
> Have had my car in the garage for 3 mounts.
> Now my aircondition is opposite from before.
> When i start AC r/m goes down instead of increase at 1000 r/m.
>
> ??
>
> Hans

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:03:38 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)

... and the DSM (Eclipse) BOV is aluminum rather than plastic like the stock
3000GT BOV?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geddes, Brian J [SMTP:brian.j.geddes@intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:29 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Strange Engine "Hoot Owl" Sound (Kinda Long)
>
> The collective experience of this group says that the stock BOV is the
> only
> one that makes the owl sound.  Anyone that's installed any aftermarket BOV
> has had the sound go away, never to return.  You're right in saying that
> the
> addition of the K&N triggers the sound, but it IS the stock BOV that makes
> the sound.  The theory is that the K&N oil gets into the stock BOV and
> causes the sound, but that this isn't an issue in the aluminum aftermarket
> BOVs. 
>
> - Brian

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:34:20 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What injectors are these?

Try calling RC engineering --- they should have a database on just about
any injector around.

        Jim Berry
========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <RDO26@aol.com>
To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Team3S: What injectors are these?

> I am trying to find out the CC and impedence of the following injectors-They
> have a green top and  each has numbers of SMD 240 and IMP 534 on the tops. 
> I've spent a couple of hours surfing around and have found nothing but a
> comment about "2nd gen green top injectors for a turbo DSM". These injectors
> are NOT from a DSM, so I don't know if they are the same. They also should
> have a part number of MD189021. If you have any info about these injectors,
> please post or email me directly.
> Thanks!
> Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:22:57 -0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: New Propane Injection Kit supplier!

Hi all,

This topic is being expanded from a very hot thread on 3Si.  My neighbor
owns a company called "Fire 'em Up" that specializes in propane and
conversions to either full propane or adding propane injection.  I know that
Dynamic Racing is currently selling Propane Injection kits.  My neighbor has
offered to make Propane Injection kits available for our cars that will be
adjustable by several different levels of boost pressure.  The price should
be close to what DR is selling them for (about $525 or so).  These kits
should take them several weeks to get developed and tested.  The current
target date is early June - maybe sooner.  These kits will be DOT approved
and the install should be done by a professional.  I will probably use my
neighbors company if I do finally decide to have this installed.

Propane injection is supposed to blow away (no pun intended) water and/or
alcohol injection as the octane rating is much higher.

I have a feeling I may become a guinea pig <grin>.

So if anyone is interested in one of these kits, let me know.  I will post
more info as I get it from my neighbor.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:29:34 -0400
From: "Infernalist" <baali@wwnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Injector Question

is it true that the 450cc injectors off a DSM will fit our cars? im looking
at a few sets right now and trying to figure out if they are worth it or
not, thanks in advance

Ron

1992 RT/TT
Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
Gutted Rear Precat
TurboXS H-RFL BOV
DN Performance Y-Pipe
Stillen DownPipe
RPS Max Series Clutch
Fidanza Flywheel
15g's (on the way)
8mm Wires
Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
K&N FIPK
Lead Foot <---- That mod was free ;)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:43:33 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector Question

This is true.  The 450ccs (1st gen turbo dsm) are direct replacements.
Due to their larger size, though, they do require a fuel controller such
as an apex'i S-AFC or ARC-2.  I got mine for $15 each from
roadraceengineering.com.  They're a local DSM tuner (LA area) so i
figure they're probably the most reliable.  Give em a call.

Also check DSMtrader.com.  They're always available and cheap.

Damon

Infernalist wrote:

> is it true that the 450cc injectors off a DSM will fit our cars? im looking
> at a few sets right now and trying to figure out if they are worth it or
> not, thanks in advance
>
> Ron
>
> 1992 RT/TT
> Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
> Gutted Rear Precat
> TurboXS H-RFL BOV
> DN Performance Y-Pipe
> Stillen DownPipe
> RPS Max Series Clutch
> Fidanza Flywheel
> 15g's (on the way)
> 8mm Wires
> Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
> K&N FIPK
> Lead Foot <---- That mod was free ;)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:40:13 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Injector Question

Will the stock fuel pump be able to flow enough to raise the boost with the 450cc's? Say to 16-18 psi?

Curtis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Damon Rachell [mailto:damonr@mefas.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 10:44 AM
To: Infernalist
Cc: team3/S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector Question

This is true.  The 450ccs (1st gen turbo dsm) are direct replacements.
Due to their larger size, though, they do require a fuel controller such
as an apex'i S-AFC or ARC-2.  I got mine for $15 each from
roadraceengineering.com.  They're a local DSM tuner (LA area) so i
figure they're probably the most reliable.  Give em a call.

Also check DSMtrader.com.  They're always available and cheap.

Damon

Infernalist wrote:

> is it true that the 450cc injectors off a DSM will fit our cars? im looking
> at a few sets right now and trying to figure out if they are worth it or
> not, thanks in advance
>
>
> Ron
>
> 1992 RT/TT
> Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
> Gutted Rear Precat
> TurboXS H-RFL BOV
> DN Performance Y-Pipe
> Stillen DownPipe
> RPS Max Series Clutch
> Fidanza Flywheel
> 15g's (on the way)
> 8mm Wires
> Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
> K&N FIPK
> Lead Foot <---- That mod was free ;)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:47:36 -0700
From: "Pete" <pbozanich@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: low boost

A little over a week ago. I had GT PRO install a Blitz SBCID boost
controller, we also installed a BOV, supra pump, plugs, magnecore 100 wires,
gages,and intrax springs. The car ran really good for about 4 to 5 days. Now
the car will only run up to 3 pounds of boost. It runs fine but the turbos
won't spool up. Last night I put everything back to stock, it still only
generates 3 pounds. Do you think it's a wastegate problem or what?
Thanks for any help

Pete,
91 Vr 4, stillen downpipe, borla exhaust, k&n filter,plus the new mods I
just put on.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:11:50 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector Question

I have to take a look at Jeff Lucius' site, but I don't think the stock
fuel pump can maintain the fuel flow necessary for 60PSI to properly
operate the injectors and maintain a safe a/f ratio.  A walbro 255lph
pump only costs $100 and it's drop in.  Worth the peace of mind, if you
ask me.
Damon

Curtis McConnell wrote:

> Will the stock fuel pump be able to flow enough to raise the boost with the 450cc's? Say to 16-18 psi?
>
> Curtis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damon Rachell [mailto:damonr@mefas.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 10:44 AM
> To: Infernalist
> Cc: team3/S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector Question
>
>
> This is true.  The 450ccs (1st gen turbo dsm) are direct replacements.
> Due to their larger size, though, they do require a fuel controller such
> as an apex'i S-AFC or ARC-2.  I got mine for $15 each from
> roadraceengineering.com.  They're a local DSM tuner (LA area) so i
> figure they're probably the most reliable.  Give em a call.
>
> Also check DSMtrader.com.  They're always available and cheap.
>
> Damon
>
> Infernalist wrote:
>
>
>>is it true that the 450cc injectors off a DSM will fit our cars? im looking
>>at a few sets right now and trying to figure out if they are worth it or
>>not, thanks in advance
>>
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>1992 RT/TT
>>Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
>>Gutted Rear Precat
>>TurboXS H-RFL BOV
>>DN Performance Y-Pipe
>>Stillen DownPipe
>>RPS Max Series Clutch
>>Fidanza Flywheel
>>15g's (on the way)
>>8mm Wires
>>Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
>>K&N FIPK
>>Lead Foot <---- That mod was free ;)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:19:12 -0400
From: Lawrence Lindgren <lflindgren@fuse.net>
Subject: Team3S: Service manual availability

As a relatively new owner of a '91 3000 GT VR4, I want to get the
service manuals so that I can do some of the work myself. Getting the
manuals is proving
to be tough. First I tried the numbers listed in FAQ. Dyment no longer
exists in area code 216, and the operator at the 800 number for MOPAR
said they do not carry Mitsu manuals. She sent me to Mitsu. I called
Mitsu and they sent me to my local retailer. I already knew what they
have to say: the 1991 manual has been combined with the manuals
through 1995 and now costs $150. In addition, the company now waits
until
they get a sufficient number of orders before printing a batch. But
that was three weeks ago. Last Friday my retailer called and said the
manuals are no longer available and they were sending my money back.

Then I tried every used book seller I could find, local (Cincinnati) and

on the internet. Nada. Then I posted a parts wanted listing on the 3SI
website. More nada.

I have the CD version of the manuals, but I would also like something I
can drip oil on. Does anyone have a suggestion?

Lawrence Lindgren

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #813
***************************************