Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Thursday, April 11 2002   Volume 01 : Number 808

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:48:25 +0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Alcohol and O2 sensor safety

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
> In my tests I saw 96°C (!!!) in the y-pipe at 1.0 bar boost with the 13g.
> This was reduced with 100% water to around 68°C. On another test (1h
> later), I saw 90°C and with 50% methanol it was reduced to 75°C. The
> sprayed amount was the same and did not vary like in their test.

(I haven't had time to read the whole thread so please forgive me if I'm slightly out of topic)

What Roger say was almost the same data as I collected on my Celica GT4 (turbo,awd) with WI/AI.

However the temperature of the intake air isn't most important with WI. It's the cooling of the combustion chamber. Measuring the intake temp to deceide if water or alcohol is the best to prevent knock is just the WRONG way to do it.

With my front mount IC I have 24 deg C in the intake plenum when it's 21 deg C outside. This is with 1,5 bar boost! Even though my temps are very low WI will help alot in preventing knock.

/Mikael

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:38:43 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Alcohol and O2 sensor safety

>What Roger say was almost the same data as I collected on my Celica GT4
>(turbo,awd) with WI/AI.
>
>However the temperature of the intake air isn't most important with WI.
>It's the cooling of the combustion chamber. Measuring the intake temp to
>deceide if water or alcohol is the best to prevent knock is just the WRONG
>way to do it.

Yes and no. It depends where you spray. For this I do have two jets, one
for additional intercooling and one for detonation control. I still don't
know why my temp readings are that high. I saw up to 144°C in the rear ic
piping at 1.1 bars !

>With my front mount IC I have 24 deg C in the intake plenum when it's 21
>deg C outside. This is with 1,5 bar boost! Even though my temps are very
>low WI will help alot in preventing knock.

1.5 bar with the GT FOUR ?? Have you monitored knock on this car then ? I
have just installed two WIS in GT FOURS and they are not running more than
1.2 bars right now (but they are running like hell). On one we mounted the
jet before the water/air intercooler for better cooling and on one after
the core (maybe too close to the TB).

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:59:29 +0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Alcohol and O2 sensor safety

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>

> Yes and no. It depends where you spray. For this I do have two jets, one
> for additional intercooling and one for detonation control.

IMHO The intake temp shall be cured with a good intercooler arrangement.

> 1.5 bar with the GT FOUR ??

NO NO Sorry, the intake temp in the last example (24 deg C) is from my 3000gt not the GT4

>Have you monitored knock on this car then ?

I did monitor knock on the GT four and it was horrible before WI. With WI I ran 1.3 bar without detonation.

Now I run up to 1,5 without waterinjection or race fuel in the VR4 (gulp!)

/Mikael

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: menalteed <menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Lighting in interior well area

I have wanted to add some soft red lighting into the
leg well area for road trips, I see we have a light in
that area already that comes on when I open the door.
What I would like to do is have the small leg well
lights work with the dash reostat and not with the
door open lights. I wonder if this would be easy to
do, just moving a wire over or something, has this
been done by anyone and if so was it just a simple
thing. I don't have a Stealth electrical book right
now, but hope to have one soon.

Peter 92 Stealth

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:45:18 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <Brian.Geisel@COMPAQ.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lighting in interior well area

Yeah, it shouldn't be too bad actually. If you pull off the dash cover from under the steering wheel, you can get at plenty of taps for the interior lighting at that point. It should be pretty easy to run wire to where you want to mount that light also. One of the few places in our cars where there happens to be some room ;)

geis

- -----Original Message-----
From: menalteed [mailto:menalteed@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:57 AM
To: tam 3S
Subject: Team3S: Lighting in interior well area

I have wanted to add some soft red lighting into the
leg well area for road trips, I see we have a light in
that area already that comes on when I open the door.
What I would like to do is have the small leg well
lights work with the dash reostat and not with the
door open lights. I wonder if this would be easy to
do, just moving a wire over or something, has this
been done by anyone and if so was it just a simple
thing. I don't have a Stealth electrical book right
now, but hope to have one soon.

Peter 92 Stealth

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:47:32 EDT
From: DonBrando36@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: dynamic turbo

    hey guys, i was looking through dynamicturbo.com and i found a N/A mod
link. I am going to buy the DN performance intake, unorthodox underdrive
pulley and the gate belt. Does dynamic have a good reputation on shipping
and pricing. I jsut dont want to get screwed like i've been. I ordered my
borla cat-back from stillen 3 months ago and i still havent recieved it, they
told me the new date is april 22.
        thanks alot

brandon
93 3000GT n/a
long island

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:31:36 -0400
From: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

I went to the track over the weekend and ran a 13.757 @105mph w/ a 2.33 60'
time! I am not sure how to launch, I just read Bob Fontana's launch FAQ and
I will try that next time. Anyhow I am pretty sure my VPC and GCC have me
running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean. At
the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100 octane. Dose
that make the car run even richer? Also is it true rich = more power less
gas mileage, is there a break point where too rich =less power less gas
mileage? Anyhow I made 2 more passes both 13.8's @102 and 103mph. Any advice
is appreciated, I hope to have access by this weekend to a pocketlogger and
am getting an air fuel gauge installed as well.

92 VR4
Stock 9b turbos
Stillen DP
HKS Super Dragger cat-back
HKS Duel Mushroom Filters
Greddy BOV
HKS VPC & GCC
HKS EVC 4 (set @ 1 bar) I notice it only holds .75 bar unless the car isnt
working hard, like 5th gear @75 and floor it holds 1 bar easy.
18" tires (do these help or hurt at the track?) should I have higher or
lower psi at the track?
Alamo Y pipe

Thanks for any tips!
Tom

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:43:04 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Tom ... how did you get to 100 octane? You didn't put in Octane Booster
did you? Remember that this changes by points of octane which is then
divided by 100 so when it says it increases 5 points I think that is
actually 5 tenths of a point or something so instead of 94 you have 94.5
octane. I think this went around a while back. Not sure. I am lucky
enough to have 94 octane here and 100 octane at the track available. It
was hard driving through the Midwest when the highest they had was 91.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Pittsburgh, PA
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Terflinger
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 14:32

I went to the track over the weekend and ran a 13.757 @105mph w/ a 2.33
60'
time! I am not sure how to launch, I just read Bob Fontana's launch FAQ
and
I will try that next time. Anyhow I am pretty sure my VPC and GCC have
me
running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean.
At
the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100 octane.
Dose
that make the car run even richer? Also is it true rich = more power
less
gas mileage, is there a break point where too rich =less power less gas
mileage? Anyhow I made 2 more passes both 13.8's @102 and 103mph. Any
advice
is appreciated, I hope to have access by this weekend to a pocketlogger
and
am getting an air fuel gauge installed as well.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:32 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <Brian.Geisel@COMPAQ.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Tom,
Here's a couple of things. No offense, but 2.33 60' it terrible! You can do way better bud. I pulled a 1.895 60' with a stock car (+K&N), by side-stepping the clutch at 7 grand or so (might have even been higher - rev limiter).

Soooo, if you bring that down to 1.9, that's .4 off your 1/4 mi right there... usually the rule of thumb is a .1 at the front is worth .2 on the back, so that's more like .8. You should have no problem running 12's. My best time so far is 13.387 w/ 1.952 60'. I'm still running stock boost pressure (11.5 on '94 VR-4).

For tire pressure - you can lower it if you are getting too much wheel spin, but I'm guessing you're not. Higher pressure = better speed (i.e. higher trap speed), lower pressure = better launch (if and only if you're getting wheel spin). Stock pressure (32/30) should be fine for you though.

I'm off to the track tonight, I'll let you know how it turns out. Just keep working on that launch until you can get down to like 1.7 or 1.8 60' times. Good luck man!

geis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Terflinger [mailto:terflit@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:32 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

I went to the track over the weekend and ran a 13.757 @105mph w/ a 2.33 60'
time! I am not sure how to launch, I just read Bob Fontana's launch FAQ and
I will try that next time. Anyhow I am pretty sure my VPC and GCC have me
running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean. At
the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100 octane. Dose
that make the car run even richer? Also is it true rich = more power less
gas mileage, is there a break point where too rich =less power less gas
mileage? Anyhow I made 2 more passes both 13.8's @102 and 103mph. Any advice
is appreciated, I hope to have access by this weekend to a pocketlogger and
am getting an air fuel gauge installed as well.

92 VR4
Stock 9b turbos
Stillen DP
HKS Super Dragger cat-back
HKS Duel Mushroom Filters
Greddy BOV
HKS VPC & GCC
HKS EVC 4 (set @ 1 bar) I notice it only holds .75 bar unless the car isnt
working hard, like 5th gear @75 and floor it holds 1 bar easy.
18" tires (do these help or hurt at the track?) should I have higher or
lower psi at the track?
Alamo Y pipe

Thanks for any tips!
Tom

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:36:42 -0400
From: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Correction, I meant to say I had 94 octane w/ octane boost so not actually
100 octane maybe 94.5-96. Dose this make the car run even richer, ie I
should lean out the mixture w/ the vpc and gcc. I havent got the air fuel
gauge installed yet so its a guessing game.

>From: "Geisel, Brian" <Brian.Geisel@COMPAQ.com>
>To: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>, <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET
>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:32 -0500
>
>Tom,
> Here's a couple of things. No offense, but 2.33 60' it terrible! You can
>do way better bud. I pulled a 1.895 60' with a stock car (+K&N), by
>side-stepping the clutch at 7 grand or so (might have even been higher -
>rev limiter).
>
> Soooo, if you bring that down to 1.9, that's .4 off your 1/4 mi right
>there... usually the rule of thumb is a .1 at the front is worth .2 on the
>back, so that's more like .8. You should have no problem running 12's. My
>best time so far is 13.387 w/ 1.952 60'. I'm still running stock boost
>pressure (11.5 on '94 VR-4).
>
> For tire pressure - you can lower it if you are getting too much wheel
>spin, but I'm guessing you're not. Higher pressure = better speed (i.e.
>higher trap speed), lower pressure = better launch (if and only if you're
>getting wheel spin). Stock pressure (32/30) should be fine for you though.
>
> I'm off to the track tonight, I'll let you know how it turns out. Just
>keep working on that launch until you can get down to like 1.7 or 1.8 60'
>times. Good luck man!
>
>geis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Terflinger [mailto:terflit@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:32 PM
>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET
>
>I went to the track over the weekend and ran a 13.757 @105mph w/ a 2.33 60'
>time! I am not sure how to launch, I just read Bob Fontana's launch FAQ and
>I will try that next time. Anyhow I am pretty sure my VPC and GCC have me
>running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean. At
>the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100 octane.
>Dose
>that make the car run even richer? Also is it true rich = more power less
>gas mileage, is there a break point where too rich =less power less gas
>mileage? Anyhow I made 2 more passes both 13.8's @102 and 103mph. Any
>advice
>is appreciated, I hope to have access by this weekend to a pocketlogger and
>am getting an air fuel gauge installed as well.
>
>92 VR4
>Stock 9b turbos
>Stillen DP
>HKS Super Dragger cat-back
>HKS Duel Mushroom Filters
>Greddy BOV
>HKS VPC & GCC
>HKS EVC 4 (set @ 1 bar) I notice it only holds .75 bar unless the car isnt
>working hard, like 5th gear @75 and floor it holds 1 bar easy.
>18" tires (do these help or hurt at the track?) should I have higher or
>lower psi at the track?
>Alamo Y pipe
>
>Thanks for any tips!
>Tom

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:51:27 -0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Darren,

I live outside of Chicago and have never heard of any place around here
having anything other than 87, 89, and (92, 93, or 94 depending on where you
go). AFAIK we have premium available most everywhere. What parts of the
midwest are you referring to?

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:43 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Tom ... how did you get to 100 octane? You didn't put in Octane Booster
did you? Remember that this changes by points of octane which is then
divided by 100 so when it says it increases 5 points I think that is
actually 5 tenths of a point or something so instead of 94 you have 94.5
octane. I think this went around a while back. Not sure. I am lucky
enough to have 94 octane here and 100 octane at the track available. It
was hard driving through the Midwest when the highest they had was 91.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Pittsburgh, PA
www.schilberg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Terflinger
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 14:32

I went to the track over the weekend and ran a 13.757 @105mph w/ a 2.33
60'
time! I am not sure how to launch, I just read Bob Fontana's launch FAQ
and
I will try that next time. Anyhow I am pretty sure my VPC and GCC have
me
running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean.
At
the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100 octane.
Dose
that make the car run even richer? Also is it true rich = more power
less
gas mileage, is there a break point where too rich =less power less gas
mileage? Anyhow I made 2 more passes both 13.8's @102 and 103mph. Any
advice
is appreciated, I hope to have access by this weekend to a pocketlogger
and
am getting an air fuel gauge installed as well.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:00:10 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Dave,

Oklahoma, Topeka, KS (Heartland Park) and on the way through Indiana and
to Kansas. 500 miles got me away from Pittsburgh but into Kansas they
have nothing higher than 91 that I could easily find. That was a year
ago. Maybe something changed.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Black, Dave (ICT) [mailto:dblai@allstate.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 15:51
To: 'dschilberg@pobox.com'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Darren,

I live outside of Chicago and have never heard of any place around here
having anything other than 87, 89, and (92, 93, or 94 depending on where
you
go). AFAIK we have premium available most everywhere. What parts of
the
midwest are you referring to?

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:03:03 -0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

91 in Colorado : (

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:00 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

Dave,

Oklahoma, Topeka, KS (Heartland Park) and on the way through Indiana and
to Kansas. 500 miles got me away from Pittsburgh but into Kansas they
have nothing higher than 91 that I could easily find. That was a year
ago. Maybe something changed.

- --Flash!

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:15:52 -0400
From: "Jerry B." <scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

I have found a place here in NJ that sells 100.. I run that in mine all the
time. But very expensive. I pay 4.50 a gallon. Costs mw about 68 dollars to
fill up every time. But if anybody here in the NJ area is lookingfor it let
me know and I will give you information where yo ucan find it. Thanks

Jerry 92 stealth e/s and 93 stealth rt/tt

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

>
> 91 in Colorado : (

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:04:35 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dynamic turbo

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <DonBrando36@aol.com>
>     hey guys, i was looking through dynamicturbo.com and i found a N/A mod
link. I am going to buy the DN performance intake, unorthodox underdrive
pulley and the gate belt. Does dynamic have a good reputation on shipping
and pricing. I jsut dont want to get screwed like i've been. I ordered my
borla cat-back from stillen 3 months ago and i still havent recieved it,
they told me the new date is april 22.
>         thanks alot
> brandon
> 93 3000GT n/a
> long island
- ------------------------------------->

The Unorthodox (and any other 'unbalanced') pulley is NOT recommended for
our cars. The only recommended pulley is made by Buscher Racing. Go to our
website and read the FAQ page that tells you all about it. It's an article
put together by Cody Graham, and includes comments from a number of other
members; there's even one from Dynamic Racing (Matt's a Team3S member, too)
in defense of the Unothodox UDP. The facts (and certainly the theory)
appear to 'disagree' with their recommendations in this case. Caveat
Emptor...
www.Team3S.com/FAQudp.htm

Best,

Forrest

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:00:34 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: dynamic turbo

Can't comment on them, but site looks interesting.

I'll bite, what is the 'gate belt' ?

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: DonBrando36@aol.com [mailto:DonBrando36@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:48 AM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: dynamic turbo

    hey guys, i was looking through dynamicturbo.com and i found a N/A mod
link. I am going to buy the DN performance intake, unorthodox underdrive
pulley and the gate belt. Does dynamic have a good reputation on shipping
and pricing. I jsut dont want to get screwed like i've been. I ordered my
borla cat-back from stillen 3 months ago and i still havent recieved it, they
told me the new date is april 22.
        thanks alot

brandon
93 3000GT n/a
long island

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:51:25 -0500
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

I had heard the "5 points means 0.5 octane raise" before, so I sent letter
to 104+ Octane Booster's company. Here is my letter and their reply (oh oh,
I didn't get permission from them to reprint this!)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Jack:
Thank you for your inquiry. Our Super 104+ Octane booster boosts octane
effect 5 to 7 (whole) points, not tenths of a point (.5-.7) as you have
heard.
Sincerely,
Gold Eagle

From: xwing [mailto:xwing@wi.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001
To: marketing@goldeagle.com
Subject: 104+ octane boost Question
I have a question: I've used 104+ octane boost for years, thinking it raised
the octane of 93 octane pump gas to about 98-100 octane.
I have now heard from some people that when 104+ Brand advertises that it
increases the octane by "5 to 7 points" it does NOT mean from 93 to 98-100
octane, but REALLY MEANS from 93.0 to 93.5-93.7 octane.
In other words, it increases it by 0.5-0.7 octane, not by 5.0-7.0 octane.
WHAT is the TRUTH? I am writing you so I have the truth in writing from
your company.
Thanks!
Jack Tertadian M.D.
Auto Enthusiast
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
> Tom ... how did you get to 100 octane? You didn't put in Octane Booster
> did you? Remember that this changes by points of octane which is then
> divided by 100 so when it says it increases 5 points I think that is
> actually 5 tenths of a point or something so instead of 94 you have 94.5
> octane. I think this went around a while back. Not sure.
> --Flash!

> From: Tom Terflinger
> running way too rich but I am told better safe than sorry dont go lean.
> At the track I had 94 octane gas and ocatne boost up to aroung 100
octane.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:49:55 -0700
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: dynamic turbo

If I may add to this......

I bought a DN intake tube for my NA and the quality of the welds is
very poor...I actually have a hole in the pipe but is covered by the
hose clamp....not the air inlet hole either...a burn through from a
welder....I was told it wasn't a big deal and DN left it at
that....for 150.00 I would toss in the money from the pipe and get a
buschur UD pully.....it has a balancer and not an aluminum pully
only...the gains should be exactly the same but the stress on the
motor will be much less with the balanced pully....or harmonic
balanced pully as it were....MR. 316 has a very long explanation of
this and I believe his words.....its 350 for it though not 200 but
the intake tube is nothing more than a 150 chromie to sit under the
hood......not a mod that will add performance in any sense...those
who dream will claim 5hp but I for can tell no difference...only in
sound with my K&N and tube together. Bottom line...your money...your
car.

The gates belt is a brand name.....nothing more. Much like gator back
belts from good year.

bobk.
93 r/t 99 conversion
paint job to be completed by 4/22
see ya'll this summer on the roads :)

- ---- Original Message ----
From: KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com
To: DonBrando36@aol.com, team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: dynamic turbo
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:00:34 -0400

>Can't comment on them, but site looks interesting.
>
>I'll bite, what is the 'gate belt' ?
>
>Kurt
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DonBrando36@aol.com [mailto:DonBrando36@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:48 AM
>To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: dynamic turbo
>
>
>    hey guys, i was looking through dynamicturbo.com and i found a
>N/A mod
>link. I am going to buy the DN performance intake, unorthodox
>underdrive
>pulley and the gate belt. Does dynamic have a good reputation on
>shipping
>and pricing. I jsut dont want to get screwed like i've been. I
>ordered my
>borla cat-back from stillen 3 months ago and i still havent recieved
>it, they
>told me the new date is april 22.
>        thanks alot
>
>brandon
>93 3000GT n/a
>long island

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:53:00 -0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

I meant to say that I haven't heard of premium being unavailable from
"within the Midwest". I guess my "Midwest" region is WI, IN, IL, MI, etc.

Forgot about heading down by OK, KS, etc.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

- -----Original Message-----
From: Floyd, Jim [mailto:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:03 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1/4 Mile ET

91 in Colorado : (

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dynamic turbo

> The Unorthodox (and any other 'unbalanced') pulley is NOT recommended for
- ---

You mean undampened..didnt cha?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:35:54 -0500
From: "Trevor James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

That's nuts...the stuff that it's made out of (Xylene and Toluene) are only
117 & 114 octane respectively.
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html
There's no way that little bottle is going to raise octane by 5-7 whole
number...unless you added a whole 16 oz. bottle per 1/2 gallon of 92 octane
in your tank.

Trevor

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

> I had heard the "5 points means 0.5 octane raise" before, so I sent letter
> to 104+ Octane Booster's company. Here is my letter and their reply (oh
oh,
> I didn't get permission from them to reprint this!)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Jack:
> Thank you for your inquiry. Our Super 104+ Octane booster boosts octane
> effect 5 to 7 (whole) points, not tenths of a point (.5-.7) as you have
> heard.
> Sincerely,
> Gold Eagle
>
> From: xwing [mailto:xwing@wi.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001
> To: marketing@goldeagle.com
> Subject: 104+ octane boost Question
> I have a question: I've used 104+ octane boost for years, thinking it
raised
> the octane of 93 octane pump gas to about 98-100 octane.
> I have now heard from some people that when 104+ Brand advertises that it
> increases the octane by "5 to 7 points" it does NOT mean from 93 to 98-100
> octane, but REALLY MEANS from 93.0 to 93.5-93.7 octane.
> In other words, it increases it by 0.5-0.7 octane, not by 5.0-7.0 octane.
> WHAT is the TRUTH? I am writing you so I have the truth in writing from
> your company.
> Thanks!
> Jack Tertadian M.D.
> Auto Enthusiast

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:41:31 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

Actually I've had really good luck with VP brand octane boost. In my
Eclipse I was only able to run 15psi with no knock and when I added a bottle
of VP to about 3/4 tank, I could run 19psi. It was a HUGE difference. Of
course it's $10 per bottle and it's the only one I found that said it could
damage oxygen sensors and catalytic converters.

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'01 Chevrolet Silverado HD Duramax

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor James" <trevor@kscable.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

> That's nuts...the stuff that it's made out of (Xylene and Toluene) are
only
> 117 & 114 octane respectively.
> http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html
> There's no way that little bottle is going to raise octane by 5-7 whole
> number...unless you added a whole 16 oz. bottle per 1/2 gallon of 92
octane
> in your tank.
>
> Trevor

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:48:16 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

that's totally right. I just did the calculations and if you used 1
gallon (about 8 times more than what one of those bottles consists of)
then the relative octane of the booster (mixed with 15 gallons of 91)
has to be:

200 octane would give a tank full of 97.8
170 octane would give a tank full of 95.9 octane.

That would mean that the booster itself, in it's pint size, would be 4
times that octane!!!

Even if it's tetraethyl lead (former octane booster before unleaded) in
pure form, it would not be able to get the octane that high.

This is total BS and I would not believe it for a minute.
Damon

Trevor James wrote:

> That's nuts...the stuff that it's made out of (Xylene and Toluene) are only
> 117 & 114 octane respectively.
> http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html
> There's no way that little bottle is going to raise octane by 5-7 whole
> number...unless you added a whole 16 oz. bottle per 1/2 gallon of 92 octane
> in your tank.
>
> Trevor

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:51:03 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

BTW, I've made up an excel spreadsheet with relative octane numbers per
tankful. If anyone wants it, e-mail me at damonr@mefas.com and I'll
send it off list.

It's kinda cool to see how much difference 103 vs 100 makes. Great for
making out cost comparisons.

Damon

Trevor James wrote:

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:31:08 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Under drive pulley

Yes, for sure he meant that .)

Regarding the UDPs, it's true that it "may" cause bad things. But the
reality shows that no car that is using it ever had or runned into problems
due to the pulley. I myself are runnign and UDP now due to the only positive
experiences. Althoug the theroy says no and I said "to never isntall one" I
did install it and there are indeed no side effects.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:08:14 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

I find this discussion interesting. I have found a good web site that
explains octane rating in easy to understand terms.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

Could it be that the octane boosters work the same way that tetraethyl lead
worked before it was banned?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Under drive pulley

Granted its just theory, but theres solid engineering principles
underneath it.

Toyota's seem to find off #1 main bearing wear with a cheap UDP, and im
sure its the longer I6 that helps make it more visible there.

But in that a proper alternative IS available, I see no need to push the
Unorthadox part.

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:

> Yes, for sure he meant that .)
>
> Regarding the UDPs, it's true that it "may" cause bad things. But the
> reality shows that no car that is using it ever had or runned into problems
> due to the pulley. I myself are runnign and UDP now due to the only positive
> experiences. Althoug the theroy says no and I said "to never isntall one" I
> did install it and there are indeed no side effects.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:11:23 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Under drive pulley

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>

> Yes, for sure he meant that .)
>
> Regarding the UDPs, it's true that it "may" cause bad things. But the
> reality shows that no car that is using it ever had or runned into problems
> due to the pulley. I myself are runnign and UDP now due to the only positive
> experiences. Althoug the theroy says no and I said "to never isntall one" I
> did install it and there are indeed no side effects.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
=======================================================

You forgot to add one important word to your paragraph on the underdrive
pulley.

The last sentence should read:

"Although the theory says no and I said "to never isntall one" I
did install it and there are indeed no side effects --- yet."

        Jim Berry

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:49:48 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

"Eighty-seven-octane gasoline is gasoline that contains 87-percent
octane and 13-percent heptane (or some other combination of fuels that
has the same performance of the 87/13 combination of octane/heptane)."

Quoted from that page above... I have one question... How is this
possible, or are they in err. Cause, if you have over 100 octane, it
would mean it has more than 100% of octane in the fuel... That's just
not possible, as we all know...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of dakken
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:08 PM
Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

I find this discussion interesting. I have found a good web site that
explains octane rating in easy to understand terms.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

Could it be that the octane boosters work the same way that tetraethyl
lead
worked before it was banned?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:14:52 -0400
From: "Chris" <cm1994@qx.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

They are in err...Octane is not an ingredient in gasoline. It is a rating
of the fuels resistance to knock in a controlled lab engine.

Chris
93 Stealth R/T TT

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of cody
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:50 PM
To: 'dakken'
Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

"Eighty-seven-octane gasoline is gasoline that contains 87-percent
octane and 13-percent heptane (or some other combination of fuels that
has the same performance of the 87/13 combination of octane/heptane)."

Quoted from that page above... I have one question... How is this
possible, or are they in err. Cause, if you have over 100 octane, it
would mean it has more than 100% of octane in the fuel... That's just
not possible, as we all know...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of dakken
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:08 PM
Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

I find this discussion interesting. I have found a good web site that
explains octane rating in easy to understand terms.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

Could it be that the octane boosters work the same way that tetraethyl
lead
worked before it was banned?

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:43:26 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

Chris wrote:

>They are in err...Octane is not an ingredient in gasoline. It is a rating
>of the fuels resistance to knock in a controlled lab engine.
>
Octane is an ingredient in common gasoline. The octane rating indicates
what percentage of the mix is iso-octane (or more specifically,
"2,2,4-trimethylpentane").

The reason you can get octane numbers higher than 100 (representing 100%
iso-octane) is because you can use other compounds in the fuel that are
more knock-resistant than iso-octane (like toluene (114 octane), xylene
(117 octane), MTBE (118 octane), etc).

What's the "controlled lab engine"? In order to determine knock
resistance the compression ratio would need to be adjustable, so I'd
think using a particular engine as a standard would defeat the purpose
of the test.

If I'm wrong, clue me in here...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:10:18 -0700
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

I thought MTBE was an oxider? Hence the term oxygenated gas? I'm just
reading off of the california pumps.

To truly test whether these octane additives do what they say, someone
with a data logger should up boost until their car begins to detonate.
Then add the octane additive, and see how much boost you can increase
until detonation. I'd say that if cylender pressures are significatly
higher (several psi boost higher) then the additives have to
significantly increase octane rating.

Damon

Matt Jannusch wrote:

> Chris wrote:
>
>> They are in err...Octane is not an ingredient in gasoline. It is a
>> rating
>> of the fuels resistance to knock in a controlled lab engine.
>>
> Octane is an ingredient in common gasoline. The octane rating indicates
> what percentage of the mix is iso-octane (or more specifically,
> "2,2,4-trimethylpentane").
>
> The reason you can get octane numbers higher than 100 (representing 100%
> iso-octane) is because you can use other compounds in the fuel that are
> more knock-resistant than iso-octane (like toluene (114 octane), xylene
> (117 octane), MTBE (118 octane), etc).
>
> What's the "controlled lab engine"? In order to determine knock
> resistance the compression ratio would need to be adjustable, so I'd
> think using a particular engine as a standard would defeat the purpose
> of the test.
>
> If I'm wrong, clue me in here...
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:38:41 -0400
From: "Chris" <cm1994@qx.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

Matt wrote:

>What's the "controlled lab engine"? In order to determine knock
>resistance the compression ratio would need to be adjustable, so I'd
>think using a particular engine as a standard would defeat the purpose
>of the test.

>If I'm wrong, clue me in here...

>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

Copied from http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/fueloctane.cfm

The motor octane rating, referred to as MON (motor octane number), is the
best rating to use when selecting fuel for your race or high compression
engine. When testing MON, the fuel is heated to 300? F and the intake air is
heated to 100? F. The test engine is a single cylinder 4 cycle engine that
is run at 900 rpm. Ignition timing is varied with compression ratio. Engine
load is varied during test.

Research Octane Rating

Known as RON (research octane rating). Tested at 600 rpm with a fixed timing
of 13? BTDC. The fuel temp is not controlled at all and the intake air temp
is varied with barometric pressure. This is done to covert everything to a
SAE standard day, which is 60? F, 0% Humidity, and 29.92 inches barometric
pressure. The RON should not be used when selecting fuel for a race or high
performance engine. The RON will always be higher than the MON.

Chris
93 Stealth R/T TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:24:19 EDT
From: ThorHolth@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: ECU repair

Sometime ago, I mentioned that I was having problems with the number three
and six cylinders not firing on my 1991 stealth r/t turbo. (got a code 53
from the MPI connector) After swapping around the coils, i found that they
were not the problem, so I swapped out the ignition chip right next to the
coils (thank you Norco for not taking all of my money, like the local dodge
dealer), yet the code 53 persists after a brief absence for about a week. It
used to come and go, but now its misfiring all of the time. I guess I'm in
for a ECU replacement or rebuild, because the harness checks out.

I already did the capacitor repair a few months ago, suspecting that that
that might be the problem too, but nothing has worked.

Here's the question:

I looked online and found Full Logic and ECM World (in CA and TX), but a
search of the message boards on Team 3s doesn't turn up any solid
recommendations. I want the thing repaired correctly, but don't want to pay
an arm and a leg if it's just another capacitor.

    Also, can any of the repair facilities test the ECU to make sure it'll be
okay.

    finally, what about a facility that offers an exchange?

_any help would be appreciated.

- -Thor

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:25:04 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

They use a single cylinder, variable compression test engine to determin when
knock occures --- the pump number is research method + motor method divided
by 2.

        Jim Berry
============================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>

>
> What's the "controlled lab engine"? In order to determine knock
> resistance the compression ratio would need to be adjustable, so I'd
> think using a particular engine as a standard would defeat the purpose
> of the test.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:41:01 -0500
From: David Allison <daedel@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S: Test Pipe Sizing Chart

I know there was a question about exhaust size when buying the test pipe
for our cars and I found this chart on the grapeaperacing.com web site
that Chris just linked to. The NAs only need 2 1/4 " piping according to
the table as they fall into the smallest range. I believe that's the
kind of engine the question was for.

Horsepower Range Single Exhaust Diameter Dual Exhaust Diameter
200-300                              3" 2 1/4"
300-400                              3 1/2" 2 1/2"
375-450                              4" 3"
450-550                              4 1/2" 3 1/2"
550-650                              5" 3 1/2"
650-800                              - 4"
800-1000                     - 4 1/2"
1000 +                         - 5"

- -David
94 3000GT NA - and proud of it ;)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:54:32 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

what is the (R+M)/2 that it always says on the pump is the way the octane is
rated?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:15 PM
To: cody; 'dakken'
Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

They are in err...Octane is not an ingredient in gasoline. It is a rating
of the fuels resistance to knock in a controlled lab engine.

Chris
93 Stealth R/T TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey Rayman <theturbodog@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

Uh, you kinda took that out of context a little I think. I think
what they were saying esentially is that octane has a rating of 100
and heptane has a rating of zero. If you mix 87% iso-octane and 13%
heptane you end up with a reference fuel having a rating of exactly
87 octane. If a variable compression engine is set exactly where the
87 octane reference fuel detonates and then the fuel is changed to
some other fuel you want to rate. If the fuel does not detonate then
it is of higher octane rating than the 87 octane reference fuel, if
it does then it is of a lower octane rating. The proportions of
octane and heptane could be changed around until you found a
reference fuel that closely approximated your experiment fuel and
then you would know the octane rating of your fuel.

Octane ratings are not linear functions. Mixing 100 octane and 90
octane fuel in equal porportions does not equal 95 octane because
probably 95% of what is in the tank is gasoline while the other 5%
are the additions that alter the properties of the fuel. I don't
know off the top of my head what the octane rating of lead was, but
only a very very small amount was needed to raise the octane rating
several points.

I have "proven" this by cutting half a tank of pump gas(93) with half
a tank of race gas(105). This combination was certainly not 105
octane but it was real close, probably 103 or better.

Casey

- --- cody <overclck@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> "Eighty-seven-octane gasoline is gasoline that contains 87-percent
> octane and 13-percent heptane (or some other combination of fuels
> that
> has the same performance of the 87/13 combination of
> octane/heptane)."
>
> Quoted from that page above... I have one question... How is this
> possible, or are they in err. Cause, if you have over 100 octane,
> it
> would mean it has more than 100% of octane in the fuel... That's
> just
> not possible, as we all know...
>
> -Cody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
> Behalf
> Of dakken
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:08 PM
> Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect
>
> I find this discussion interesting. I have found a good web site
> that
> explains octane rating in easy to understand terms.
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
>
> Could it be that the octane boosters work the same way that
> tetraethyl
> lead
> worked before it was banned?
>
> Doug
> 92 Stealth RT TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:35:48 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Re: Octane Booster Real Effect

They use a single cylinder, variable compression test engine to determin when
knock occures --- the pump number is research method + motor method divided
by 2.

         Jim Berry
============================================

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>
>
> >
> > What's the "controlled lab engine"? In order to determine knock
> > resistance the compression ratio would need to be adjustable, so I'd
> > think using a particular engine as a standard would defeat the purpose
> > of the test.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:57:43 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

Hi Team,

There is probably nobody on the internet who knows brakes better than
Team3S. Here is my question:

My brakes suck. I am going racing on Friday and I the brakes are completely
no good even for daily driving. I bled them and they suck even worse. Could
it be that I bled them incorrectly? Or could there be anything in the brake
system that went bad?

My brakes were normal until about two months ago when it was freezing cold
outside and I made several runs around the block, then tried to slow down
and the pedal was stiff initially, but the car just kept going. Then the
pedal slowly travelled about half the way and I had almost full braking
power back. At that time I though that I caught air somehow. So, today, I
bled the brakes and they are now worse than before. How could this be? The
pedal has to slooo-o-ww-lly travel through about 2/3 of the stroke and only
then some braking actions starts. It I hit the pedal fast it feels like a
shock absorber - the faster you hit it the harder it is to make it travel.
Meanwhile the car is not stopping until the pedal travels about 2/3 through
the stroke.

I bled brakes on many cars before, but never on a car with an ABS. My
friend was helping me, so he is a witness that I did not do anything weird.
Is there still air trapped somewhere where I cannot get is, or could there
be something wrong with the master cylinder or the ABS? I used up two 32 oz
bottles of brake fluid already. I also bled with the engine running. How do
I get that air out? Thank you.

Philip

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:26:44 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

Philip:

Yep, sounds like air in the system. And I agree that it probably happened during the freezing incident.

First, look for a damaged brake line. It's possible that you have a leak in one of the lines, and it allows air in. Conversely, it should be letting fluid out, so you should be able to track it down easily by looking for brake fluid leaks. Unfortunately, the leak can be anywhere in the system, front or rear.

Next, it's possible that the freezing temperature somehow damaged one of the calipers, and it has an internal leak. You can check those by removing the wheel, removing the spring clamp on the caliper, and sticking a screwdriver between the pads and the rotor to push back the pistons (as if you were removing the pads). Then have a friend apply the brakes to see if all four pistons on that wheel apply pressure properly.

These are the simplest things I can think of to check at home in your garage.

Rich/slow old poop

>My brakes were normal until about two months ago when it was freezing cold
>outside and I made several runs around the block, then tried to slow down
>and the pedal was stiff initially, but the car just kept going. Then the
>pedal slowly travelled about half the way and I had almost full braking
>power back. At that time I though that I caught air somehow. So, today, I
>bled the brakes and they are now worse than before. How could this be?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:57:34 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

I was sent these instructions taken out of the service manual when I had
troubles with my brakes...

It's a simple check, cause honestly, it sounds to me like your brake
master cylinder...

- -Cody

Here are the steps out of the repair manual.

1. Run the engine for one or two minutes and then stop it.

2. Step on the breke pedal several times with normal pressure.
    If the pedal dresses fully the first time but gradually becomes
higher when depressed succeeding times, the booster is operating
properly.
    If the pedal height remains unchanged, the booster is faulty.

3. With the engine stopped, step on the brake pedal several times with
the same pressure to make sure the pedal height will not change.
    Then step on the brake pedal and start the engine.
    If the pedal moves doward slightly, the booster is in good
condition. If there is no change, the booster is faulty.

4. With the engine running, step on the brake pedal and then stop the
engine.
    Hold the pedal depressed for 30 seconds. If the pedal height does
not change, the booster is in good condition. If the pedal rises, the
booster is faulty.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of merritt@cedar-rapids.net
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:27 AM
To: Philip V. Glazatov; team3s@team3s.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

Philip:

Yep, sounds like air in the system. And I agree that it probably
happened during the freezing incident.

First, look for a damaged brake line. It's possible that you have a leak
in one of the lines, and it allows air in. Conversely, it should be
letting fluid out, so you should be able to track it down easily by
looking for brake fluid leaks. Unfortunately, the leak can be anywhere
in the system, front or rear.

Next, it's possible that the freezing temperature somehow damaged one of
the calipers, and it has an internal leak. You can check those by
removing the wheel, removing the spring clamp on the caliper, and
sticking a screwdriver between the pads and the rotor to push back the
pistons (as if you were removing the pads). Then have a friend apply the
brakes to see if all four pistons on that wheel apply pressure
properly.

These are the simplest things I can think of to check at home in your
garage.

Rich/slow old poop

>My brakes were normal until about two months ago when it was freezing
cold
>outside and I made several runs around the block, then tried to slow
down
>and the pedal was stiff initially, but the car just kept going. Then
the
>pedal slowly travelled about half the way and I had almost full braking

>power back. At that time I though that I caught air somehow. So, today,
I
>bled the brakes and they are now worse than before. How could this be?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:02:05 -0700
From: "dakken" <dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

It could be a leak somewhere. Has your fluid level been going down the past
two weeks?

One easy way to check for a leak is to park your car on a clean piece of
concrete. I say concrete because leaks show up more on concrete than on
black pavement or you can use several cardboard boxes. Mark with chalk
where your wheels are. Start the engine and pump your breaks a lot. Do it
for at least 2 minutes strieght. Then pull foward past the chalk marks and
check for wet spots on the pavement. Use a tape measure to figure out
exactly where the leaks are from the stains and check those areas on your
car.

If you can't find a leak then it could be your brake booster is not working.
Check the vacuum line to it first.

If your brake booster is working fine then your master cylinder may need
rebuilding.

The last thing to check is the ABS. It also happens to be the most
expensive.

Doug
92 Stealth RT TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:22:57 -0400
From: "Infernalist" <baali@wwnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: tranny help please!!!!!

Greets all, im having a really bad day and need some advice asap please.

I just installed an rps Max series clutch and fidanza flywheel, my second
time on the clutch so it went pretty smooth. i just (30 minutes ago)
finished buttoning it up and filled the tranny, tranny fluid was coming out
of the back near the transfer case, i immediately pulled the exhaust and
transfer case again and noticed it seems to be coming from the output shaft
? is there a seal there i can replace or something? i assume i need to pull
the tranny again (sigh) any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Ron

1992 RT/TT
Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
Gutted Rear Precat
TurboXS H-RFL BOV
DN Performance Y-Pipe
Stillen DownPipe
Fidanza Flywheel
RPS Max Series Clutch
15g's (on the way)
8mm Wires
Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
K&N FIPK
Lead Foot <---- That mod was free ;)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:34:23 -0400
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

I agree with cody on using this test procedure. Symptoms sound to me like a
faulty brake booster or brake booster check valve. That would be the first
thing to check. The reason I say faulty check valve is because it takes the
engine a few seconds after coming off the gas for vacuum to build up.
Normally the check valve keeps the booster under vacuum only, not allowing
any pressure to get in when you're under boost. The booster keeps a vacuum
reserve for stepping on the brakes immediately off the throttle.. If the
check valve were faulty.. There is no vacuum reserve and you have to wait
for vacuum to build up in the intake before the brakes appear to work. Or..
it could be the booster itself is faulty.. Check both and let us know how it
goes.

Omar
92 r/t

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of cody
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:58 AM
To: merritt@cedar-rapids.net; 'Philip V. Glazatov'; team3s@team3s.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: No Brakes - Need Help

I was sent these instructions taken out of the service manual when I had
troubles with my brakes...

It's a simple check, cause honestly, it sounds to me like your brake
master cylinder...

- -Cody

Here are the steps out of the repair manual.

-------------snip----------->