Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, March 23
2002 Volume 01 : Number
791
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:11:28 -0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Boost II
My daughter gave me a ride back to Fast and Furious,
here in Cedar Rapids, to pick up my Talon. She brought her 91 Stealth, and asked
the guys to take a look at the boost settings, because I had been complaining
that her car wasn't as fast as it oughta be. Trent, the owner, took a quick spin
in it, came back and opened the hood, and pronounced that the DSBC was not
installed properly. Five minutes later he had rearranged the tubing (grumbling
about amateurs who try to install speed equipment), then he and a tuner took a
five minute ride to set the DSBC, and now it runs like it should.
You
cannot imagine how nice it is to have somebody in town here who understands our
cars!
A potential buyer is driving over from Chicago to look at the
Stealth tomorrow, but now that Cathy has discovered the marvels of proper boost,
I don't think she wants to sell it!
Rich/slow old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:47:27
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Boost II
Jeesh..the car is immaterial.
The
instructions just need to be read.
Once you start doing your own work
Rich, you'll understand just how
_easy_ it really all is.
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:50:58
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 13g's vs. 9B's
13g's can't hold more boost than 9B's on the
top end? Roger, you better
notify my 13g's right away, Otherwise, I
think you've been driving on 9B's
all along. My 13g's hold 17psi on the
track all day long. To anyone who's
ever replaced their 9B's with
13g's, the difference in the compressor size
is
obvious.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Rick Pierce" <
piercera@pacbell.net>
To: "Roger
Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, March 22, 2002 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Boost
controller is in!
Sorry Roger, I typed too fast - I should have said
"I've heard" they will
hold 17 psi to Redline - I admit my mistake (I really
wasn't trying to BS or
pass bad info - but I guess I did anyway). I've
only had my 92 (with BPU
and the JSpec 13Gs) up to 15psi before I turned it
down to 12.5 psi - which
it does hold to redline (at least according to my
boost gauge). I do have a
supra pump and 450cc injectors already, but
haven't installed them as I'm
waiting on getting a SAFC.
Sorry for any
mis-information,
Rick
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:35:50
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Boost II
>The instructions just need to be
read.
>Once you start doing your own work Rich, you'll understand just
how
>_easy_ it really all is.
>
It's like this...I can't afford
to do my own work, because it costs me money. Time spent on the car is time I
can't bill -- especially considering that it takes me 4X as long as it takes a
shop. It is financially in my best interest to let somebody else do the work.
During those few times that I don't have a pile of billable work to do,
I love to go out and tinker with the car. But I stick to stuff I understand,
like brakes. I tend to F**k other things up, too, which complicates everything.
When I hit the lottery, I'll build a six-car garage, install a lift, and
tinker all day.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:08:29
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Boost II
> It's like this...I can't afford
to do my own work, because it costs me money. Time spent on the car is time I
can't bill -- especially considering that it takes me 4X as long as it takes a
shop. It is financially in my best interest to let somebody else do the
work.
- ---
So..you paid $200 for an hour of time on a weekend for plugs
and an
improperly installed boost controller.
Dude, need my paypal
addr and you can fly me out and save some money?
What you get from DIY on
such low-end jobs pays back in spades in
understanding.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:53:07
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Boost II
They installed a DSBC and a BOV and
regapped all six plugs. You can do that in an hour? It took them four hours.
Also, who said it was improperly installed? It was the DSBC in my daughter's car
that was improperly installed, not mine.
Rich
>---
>So..you paid $200 for an hour of time on a
weekend for plugs and an
>improperly installed boost
controller.
>Dude, need my paypal addr and you can fly me out and save
some money?
>What you get from DIY on such low-end jobs pays back in
spades in
>understanding.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:21:05
-0500
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3Si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 13G, 17psi to redline or not?
Now Roger has my
attention:
I keep hearing that 13G will hold 17 psi to redline, basically
as
much boost as most recommend w/o using race gas or water
injection.
Actually I keep hearing that the Dynamic racing DR500's will do
this
but they are modified 13G's.
I have a friend who wants to buy
turbos for his car and can't decide.
He just wants as much power as the get
w/o getting too crazy, he was
originally looking at huge turbos like 357s
and no fuel
controller!!! I finally convinced him that that
would be a huge
mistake but I am not confident enought ot suggest which
turbos he
should get. If was was gettign them for my own daily driver
I would
probably get 13Gs or maybe DR500 since Matt Monet seems to eb able
to
get so much out of them. I have not seen any proof that a street car
needs anything bigger than 13Gs, but if they drop of at higher RPMS
then
the 15G's start looking better for a street car.
Anyone here running 13G
or DR500s that can confirm what boost they
can hold to redline?
John Monnin
1991 VR4
4-bolt main conversion
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:31
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Boost II
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff
Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Jeesh..the car is immaterial.
>
> The instructions just need to be
read.
It seems that the Japanese suppliers of many of the products we buy
could care less about support and English instructions. I do all my
own
work and find that without a good background in mechanics and at
times
electronics that you can't understand what they've written or at
least
translated --- at times it looks like they had a English as a second
language
student doing the translation. Their response is to ask the shop
where you
bought it and half the time they don't know the answer or are
incapable of
describing the procedure over the phone.
The moral of the
story --- buy from someone who gives a damn about their
customer
base.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:30:11
-0500
From: MIHAI RAICU <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
EDFC(Electronic Damping Force Controller) Question
Flash,
I know
what you mean when you say that lifting the back of
the hood is a good thing
in creating a cowl effect and
lowering under hood temps. I just hate
to be forced to
change something cosmetically to the car, unless I elect to
do it. I guess Paul Prentis is going to find out for us how
it
fits. Maybe we will not be forced to raise the hood, or
if we will,
only 1-2 mm.
- -MIHAI-
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:10:34
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: EDFC(Electronic Damping Force Controller) Question
Mihai,
I meant lifting the back of the hood with the ol' "washer
under the
hinge" trick to raise it half an inch or so. Someone tried
this out in
CA (Jim Berry maybe?). Nothing cosmetic changes to the hood
... you
just raise the back. That is, assuming you have to do this in
the first
place. It might end up working out just fine.
-
--Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:56:18
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE: 13G, 17psi to redline or not?
HKS, Mitsubishi, Greddy,
etc. when selling the 'Sport Turbo Upgrade' are
selling 13g's.
Assuming, as Roger has indicated in the past, that European
3S's are equiped
with 13g's from the factory, then it stands to reason that
the sport turbo
upgrade is only available in the US. I selected the 13g's a
few years
ago, based on concerns by Jack T. that the TEC conversion from 13g
to 15g may
occasionally effect the long term reliability based on his
experience with
running both. From my early conversations with TEC, I was
told the 13g
and the 15g use the same compressor section with the 15g
running a slightly
larger turbine section. Jeff Lucius has excellent data
on most of the
turbo's available on his web site. I've been happy with
the
13g's. With the boost controller set to 18psi, they hold boost up
to around
6K before they start to dip down to around 17psi near redline in
3rd gear
and higher. 2nd gear is limited to around 16psi max.
This may be a result
of the smaller turbines on the 13's, but I'm guessing
that most turbo
upgrades have boost limitations in the lower gears. My
mods are limited to
fuel system and a downpipe. All else is
stock.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "John Monnin" <
John.Monnin@3Si.zzn.com>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, March 22, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: 13G, 17psi to redline or
not?
Now Roger has my attention:
I keep hearing that 13G will hold
17 psi to redline, basically as
much boost as most recommend w/o using race
gas or water injection.
Actually I keep hearing that the Dynamic racing
DR500's will do this
but they are modified 13G's.
I have a friend who
wants to buy turbos for his car and can't decide.
He just wants as much power
as the get w/o getting too crazy, he was
originally looking at huge turbos
like 357s and no fuel
controller!!! I finally convinced him that
that would be a huge
mistake but I am not confident enought ot suggest which
turbos he
should get. If was was gettign them for my own daily driver I
would
probably get 13Gs or maybe DR500 since Matt Monet seems to eb able
to
get so much out of them. I have not seen any proof that a street
car
needs anything bigger than 13Gs, but if they drop of at higher
RPMS
then the 15G's start looking better for a street car.
Anyone here
running 13G or DR500s that can confirm what boost they
can hold to
redline?
John Monnin
1991 VR4
4-bolt main
conversion
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 05:06:49
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 13G, 17psi to redline or not?
List member Dean has 13G turbos
and they hold 17 psi to red line.
Dean and I have driven each other's cars
back to back and his has
noticeably better role-on performance than mine.
Dean has a '94 VR4
with 13Gs, VPC/GCC, and similar ICs to mine. I have '92 TT
with 15Gs,
ARC2.
The Mitsu compressor flow maps also show
substantially better
high-end performance of the 13Gs over 9Bs. Go to the
"Flow Maps with
stock engine demand lines" section of my web page below and
compare
9B and 13G maps with engine flow. Of course, every engine is
little
different, but Dean's max psi of ~17 psi indicates that his
engine
has improved volumetric efficiency over the stock engine and so
max
boost is less than it would be with a stock motor (but flow is
more!).
In fact, the 13G flow map with "improved engine demand lines"
suggests a 17
psi max boost at 7000 RPM.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htmMy
estimates of engine VE match well so far with list members'
reported
performance with 9B, 13G, 15G, and GT368 turbos in both
stock and modified
engines. Take a look at the other compresor flow
maps on my web page above to
see how other turbos might work on our
engines. My 15Gs hold ~20 psi boost to
red line.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
John Monnin <
John.Monnin@3Si.zzn.com>
wrote:
> Now Roger has my attention:
>
> I keep hearing that
13G will hold 17 psi to redline, basically as
> much boost as most
recommend w/o using race gas or water injection.
> Actually I keep hearing
that the Dynamic racing DR500's will do
> this
> but they are
modified 13G's.
>
> I have a friend who wants to buy turbos for his
car and can't
> decide.
> He just wants as much power as the get
w/o getting too crazy, he
> was
> originally looking at huge turbos
like 357s and no fuel
> controller!!! I finally convinced him
that that would be a huge
> mistake but I am not confident enought ot
suggest which turbos he
> should get. If was was gettign them for
my own daily driver I
> would
> probably get 13Gs or maybe DR500
since Matt Monet seems to eb able
> to
> get so much out of them. I
have not seen any proof that a street
> car
> needs anything bigger
than 13Gs, but if they drop of at higher RPMS
>
> then the 15G's
start looking better for a street car.
>
> Anyone here running 13G
or DR500s that can confirm what boost they
> can hold to redline?
>
> John Monnin
> 1991 VR4
> 4-bolt main
conversion
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:18:09
-0800
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX has own new SS Braided Brake Lines, More Cam Gears
I have
a set of silver ones and what I can say about the unorthodox set to
the
fadenza set it that the fadenza set is made better....anyone who knows
about
aluminum stripping out threads will come to like the way fadenza
repaired
that problem or worry with their set....even 450 is steep but I
feel much
better about the quality with my fadenza set. As for over
adjusting it looks
like it goes a full 10 deg either way....I am told 1deg
one way and 3 deg
another for the best starting point...both sets go past
this point....that's
why they both have locking bolts...the fadenza set
looks and just plain
common sense shows that their sets will lock down
better.....a stud in
aluminum is the better way by any means over a machined
screw that will
eventually wear out threads....
JMO...I am a QC guy for a big
company...and have held both sets in my
hand...the fadenza set is still in my
possession....I doubt either will out
perform each other but quality is first
when it comes to things like valve
trains and then price.....luckily the
fadenza fits both bills by a
whopping
400.00......
bobk.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:29:14
-0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: fog lights
When I was under my car I saw gears and electric motor
on my fog lights, are
they adjustable and where would the adjustment be? I
can't find anything
that would adjust them.
MikeS 92 rt
tt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:21:08
-0500
From: "Mike Frey" <
mike21b@ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
fog lights
Look at your fog light "head on". You'll see a very small
indent around the
inside edge. The adjustment screw is accessed through that
with a skinny
Phillips head screwdriver.
Now, if I can only figure out
exactly which panels to pull off the bottom,
then I can replace the
bulbs....................
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:20:21
-0800
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
ignition coil capacitor... spec, availability
Team3S, and
Roger-
True, my search is a little bit off. It reflects the older
ignition
systems. Now capacitors still are used for taking spikes out of the
coil
input, from what Andy and Mike tell me. The two specs are:
1)
Plug wire side coil resistance (tested out fine)
2) Harness side coil
resistance (too high)
I can supplement this with the shop manual pages
and the exact readings
that I got if you guys would like. The harness side
coil resistance was too
high on my coil. I am sure that the coils are the
right part, since they
were matched up at the auto parts place and look
identical. The plug wire
side spec matched on the bosch coils too. I can give
you a part number if
you want it. The local Mopar dealer told me that neither
him nor the Mitsu
dealer could get me the capacitor alone, since it is
serviced and replaced
as the "ignition coil assembly". It didn't seem to me
like he was blowing
smoke up my ass, although it's possible. I did the shop
manual diagnostic on
the ignition power transistor and it passed just fine.
All I need to do now
is test the harnesses for continuity.
I am going
to try and replace the existing rusted out capacitor with a
generic 1000
micro farad capacitor. That's an awful high capacitance, but
it's a fail-safe
measure since I've discussed the matter with an electrical
engineer (Mike)
who says that no car with a distributorless ignition would
need more than
that much capacitance. In the worst case scenario, my spark
won't be quite as
hot, and Mike says that the transister would compensate
would the heat issue
anyway. I'm using platinum plugs so I'm not
particularly worried about that
either.
However, please let me know if you have any other input regarding
the
matter. I'm most likely going to put the rest of my car back together
before
I even get to the ignition stuff anyway, so that gives us
time.
Riyan
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger
Gerl
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:34 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: ignition coil capacitor... spec, availability
>
I discovered that the ignition coil was out of spec
What was out of spec
?
> ignition coil from bosch for $80, but bosch gave me the three
coils only,
I wasn't aware that Bosch has any coil that fits our cars
!
> not the whole bracket. I need the whole bracket assembly because
the
> ignition coil capactitor comes as part of the assembly and mine
seems to
be
> rusted and out of spec as well.
You should get the
capacitor alone from Mitsu. It is only there to surpress
ignition pitch into
the 12V power system.
> suspect that the rusted out capactitor is what
caused the coil to die in
the
All coils died ? I doubt that the
capacitor causes the coils to die. More
the ignition transistors are the
problem then.
I think your search is a little off as we don't have a
capacitive discharge
system at all.
Also, are you sure that you
measured the right thing and that you got the
right coils (Bosch sounds very
strange to me !!). You can disconnect the
capacitor if you
want.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#791
***************************************