Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, March 16
2002 Volume 01 : Number
784
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:23:34 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Throttle body, how big?
Questions :
1. How much air
flow can the stock TB handle
2. How much air flow is your goal.
The
supplier of a larger TB must be able to tell you the increased
flow.
>Now I wonder how big TB shall I get? What is too small and when
is it too big?
>
>The intercooler pipes are 3" so I guess that's the
smallest it should be.
>Will I gain anything with a TB that is bigger
than the IC pipe?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:09:12
-0600
From: Matt Costanza <
mcostanza@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Replacement door speakers for Infinity sound system
I seemed to
have blown the left front door speaker in my 97 3000GT SL.
I'm now looking
for a replacement. From what I understand, I can't just
go get any speaker. I
have to get a exact replacement that matches the
Infinity sound system in the
car. So I have two questions. First, does
anyone have a source for
replacement speakers? Second, how hard is it to
remove the whole door panel
to get to the door speakers?
Thanks in advance for any info.
Regards,
- --
Matt Costanza
Austin, Tx USA
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:52:07
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Replacement door speakers for Infinity sound system
Door panel is
easy to remove. Jeff Lucius may have this on his page,
www.stalth316.com. If not then email
me and I'll describe it better.
- - Beneath the door handle (pull the
door latch and there is a screw
underneath it) is one of the tricky
ones.
- - I think there is one ins front or back of the door (near the hinge
or
door jam). Maybe that was another car.
- - Down near the bottom
where the carpet is are little covers that flip
open like a ketchup bottle or
shampoo top. They are plastic and hinged
so do not break them.
Once flipped open you can see the screws to
remove.
- - Maybe another one
under or in the armrest.
The hard part is taking off the door panel but
leaving the door handle.
Work the handle through the hole where you removed
the plastic door
handle cover. There is also a bent piece of metal that
the door part is
"hooked" into so you need to lift it up and out of
that. There is also
a wiring harness to uncouple.
Once removed
you can see the speaker. It is inside a plastic shroud and
you don't
have very much room depth-wise because the window runs right
behind the
speaker (roll down the window and see). Some aftermarket
speakers do
not match the hole location mounting points so you need to
get a direct
replacement or make a jig that mounts the new speaker to it
(pieces of wood
perhaps) and then the jig mounts to the stock hole
locations.
Reminder
that when the door panel is removed from the car there is no
armrest (aka
handle) to hold on to and depending on your driving this
may not be
advisable. The door lock and window buttons are also missing
so you may
find some activities limited.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:53:36
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: FMIC
Jim,
Ahhhhh. I have not explored that area from
the firewall before. I've
taken off the grates to remove pine needles,
debris, etc. Thanks. I
wondered where those channels ran
to.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
fastmax
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:19
The access hole would
not go into the cabin --- there is a chamber
under the black plastic grates
in front of the windshield that provide
air for he heating and A/C --- I
could tap into that and route cool air
to the intake.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:00:11
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S:
FMIC
Todd
That's one of the things I like about the 93 --- I
have a datalogger to play
around with and hopefully prevent
damage.
I already know that 23# on pump is a no-no ---- these
lists are good for
that. Some of this stuff is like plugging a light
bulb into the 220V outlet,
it gets real bright --- for a while. I've read and
saved some of your posts
on things such as boost controllers and the Krank
vent --- when I get to
that level I'll probably have some questions.
Especially boost controllers,
I have the AVCR which you declined to try upon
the advice of your
mechanic but you could provide information as to what to
be aware of
and what symptoms to look for.
I don't know if
I'll push the car as hard as you seem to --- street racing
puts a lot of
knife edge stress on an engine. One injector sputtering for
one second can
burn a piston when your pushing the limits. I talked to
Matt Monett about the
same issue, he's operating at a higher level but
each step forward results in
finding a new weak link and some of those
links are expensive --- broken
front differential a month or two ago.
Resolving the new link is usually more
expensive yet.
It's like the old saying --- "It may be great
to soar with the eagles but
weasels don't get sucked into jet exhausts" ---
I'll just hang with the
weasels for a while and let someone else spend
the development
dollars.
. Jim
Berry
> =====================================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <
tds@brightok.net>
>
> >
> I'd just like to ask some questions of someone who has already
spent
> > > the money breaking parts --- no sense in both of us
being broke ;-)
> > >
=========================================
> >
> > Don't run
23 PSI on 91 octane pump gas without
> > alc/water injection and no
datalogger!
> > (it was fast for a while!)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:13:42
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: o2 sensor bad, vpc bad?
Hello,
I have a 1991 R/T tt. On
my Jumptronix A/F meter, sometimes during idle the
car will stay rich (0.94v)
and not cycle as it should (this is sometimes
solved by blipping the
throttle, which starts it cycling, although not
always) ... while other times
it will cycle from rich to lean normally.
Also, the same thing is true during
light throttle driving. Would this be
something wrong with the vpc, or
possibly an o2 sensor? I recently
installed new o2 sensors (but before
I had the A/F gauge). The car also
wants to die whenever I put it in
neutral -- I'm thinking this could be
caused by the ISC motor, although it
could be related to the other problems.
I have a datalogger on the way,
but it is not here yet.
I have VPC, SAFC (old style), 15G's, 550's,
walbro, full exhaust, etc.
thanks,
Bill
I had another post kind
of like this one, but I figured out the other
problem :)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:34:24
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Throttle body, how big?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger
Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
Questions :
>
> 1. How much air flow can the stock TB
handle
Don't know but I know that the Supraboys use a 75mm when they go
"Single turbo mega power"
> 2. How much air flow is your
goal.
My goal is to have as much power as possible and not a single thing
in my configuration shall be a restriction at 700 HP...
>The supplier
of a larger TB must be able to tell you the increased flow.
Yes, I will
post the same question to Accufab.
/Mikael
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:45:38
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Throttle body, how big?
We do not have carburetors, right, so
fuel atomization is not an issue. My
thinking is that you only need a
throttle body when you do not want to go
at WOT. It should not be a
restriction in the intake tract and there is no
sense in making it bigger
than the Y-pipe either. I think these are the
only criteria. This is a
stretch, but we would probably have cars without
throttle bodies if we could
modulate boost fast enough.
Philip
"Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se> wrote:
>I will have a
new intake manifold custom made and I will also buy a new
throttle
body.
>Now I wonder how big TB shall I get? What is too small and when
is it too
big?
>The intercooler pipes are 3" so I guess that's the
smallest it should be.
Will I gain anything with a TB that is bigger than the
IC pipe?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:52:00
-0500
From: Dave Miller <
dmille1@LEECA.ORG>
Subject: Team3S:
Turbo Rebuilder Sources/Recommendations
Does anyone know of any good
Turbo Rebuilders they'd recommend?
Dave Miller
1991 Dodge Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:59
-0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo Rebuilder Sources/Recommendations
Dave...
I had
my 15Gs rebuilt by the manufacturer, TEC (turbo engineering corporation).
Essentially, they take a 9G body and modify the internals for the 13G and 15G.
Beyond that size I believe the housing must be altered as well (or a different
housing is used). I'd recommend them, the quality of their work and
communication was quite good. However, they were "expensive" (seems like someone
was posting about a $100 rebuild???) as it was around $1,000 for the
pair.
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Dave Miller [mailto:dmille1@LEECA.ORG]
Sent: Friday,
March 15, 2002 9:52 AM
To: Stealth Listserv (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S:
Turbo Rebuilder Sources/Recommendations
Does anyone know of any good
Turbo Rebuilders they'd recommend?
Dave Miller
1991 Dodge Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:02:10
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: How much
do "xx" part weight?
Hi Team3S,
Since decreasing vehicle
weight is one of the most effective ways to be fast (either on dragstrip,
street or track) and save transmission etc I have started to compile a list of
how much each 3000GT/stealth part weight. The most important ones for me to know
is ofcourse heavy ones and the ones that we can live without or "easy" change to
something lighter.
Doors? Hood? Stock rims? Drive shaft? Moon roof?
Exhaust? AC compressor? etc
I have weight information on seats and
carpets etc. And I have almost all active aero parts so I can weight them
myself.
The list will be published when ready.
Please send weight
information OFF LINE to me
mikael@3000gt.nuThanks!
/Mikael
Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:06:03
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Alamo pipes
Does anybody have pictures they could send me of
Alamo Intercooler pipes
installed in the engine bay?
As usual, no
instructions, and it's like putting a puzzel together without
a picture on
the box.
W
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:28:03
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: White Smoke Update - Oil in Turbo IC Pipe out
Prior to doing a
turbo change, I would do a
compression check, you should be able to find out
the
state of the engine and if it is possible that it is a
valve or some
other problem. If you have the Service
Manual and you should the procedures
for these checks
are in there.
peter
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:37:36
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Replacement door speakers for Infinity sound system
Jeff Lucius
does have a very good site for information
on several subjects including
removing the door trim
to get to your speaker, you may be able to find
the
speaker that you need at M&M salvage in California,
they have
found parts for me in the past and have been
good about shiping. They have a
lot of our cars as
that is what they do. Here is a link to Jeff's
site
that has the pictures of the panel removel.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/0-frames.htmGood
luck
Peter 92 TT Stealth
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:39:58
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porterfield Rotors
Darren,
Your hammer method is probably
the wrong way to go, or last resort.
You may damage the hub or bearings that
way.
You could have scavenged a bolt from the car to use the built in
hub
threaded holes, or use a pulley puller instead.
Just FYI if
others run into this.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13,
2002 10:36 PM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield Rotors
Well I just took off the last set of
rotors that went 3 full DEs and a
full set of Pagid Orange pads plus about 9
months of street driving.
Luckily, the one that was stuck on there was the
one that cracked
through the stud bolt hole. I didn't have to worry
about saving it.
Still ... it took quite a good shots with a 2 pound hammer
to get it
unstuck from the hub. Put some good dents in the backside of
the rotor
face. That was with some anti-seize on it but not since the
first of
the season when it was new. I hadn't needed to change rotors
until now
(had them off a time or two for maintenance but they came off
fine). I
think it might have been some rust over the winter that got
between the
spots where anti-seize was.
Remember that I had a heavy
car, no front brake air ducts, and plenty of
hot temps for the rotors to get
nice and toasty with the hub. I also
didn't have the necessary bolts to
help pull out the rotor but they were
done for anyway so no biggie at the
time.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002
01:26
Antiseize aint a bad idea..but ive never had a stuck rotor..I
mean..I
change em at least once every 6-7 sets of race pads (once a
year).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:45:31
-0800
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/ SS?
I'd imagine that the
coke works to remove the rust,
right? Not as a lube? If
that's the case, has anyone
ever used a rust remover, either naval
jelly, or CLR?
Soak the rusted parts in either for a while, rinse,
then lube? Kinda to remove any and all foreign material
in
the treads?
Just a thought.
> Robert Koch wrote:
>
>> you can laugh at this if you want......pour coca-cola on it....you
>> might be
>> very suprised what we dump in our stomachs
will also break free a rusted
>> heat locked bolt.
>>
bobk.
>> 93 r/t
>>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
>> Of Damon
Rachell
>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:41 PM
>> To:
team3s; 3sracers
>> Subject: Team3S: removing exhaust bolts/nuts and
replacing w/ SS?
>>
>>
>> Well, i've finally had
it. I want to replace all of the exhaust nuts
>> and bolts with
stainless hardware (front pre-cat to turbo, rear precat
>> to DP, cat
bolts, etc). The problem is that I have no idea how to get
>> the
old bolts out of the flanges. Anyone ever do this and if so,
how
>> did you? Currently, I don't have air tools, but I've got
just about
>> everything else.
>>
>> I was thinking
that after saturating the bolts in lube, i'd cut them off
>> with a
cutoff wheel then either drill through the center, progressively
>>
larger and larger until either it comes out completely, or I buy an
>>
easy-out set and use that. The issue, though, with an easyout is
that
>> you've gotta put extreme torque on the turbo flange (up front)
and
>> pre-cat in the rear. This sounds too stressful on the
flange/turbo and
>> don't want to either bend anything or break a
bracket.
>>
>> Any other ideas? Hopefully, I'd like to
avoid using a torch due to
>> proximity of other
goodies.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Damon
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:42:44
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax <
fastmax@cox.net>
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Friday, March 15, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: Fw: Team3S:
FMIC
>Todd
>
> That's one of the things I like about the
93 --- I have a datalogger to
play
>around with and hopefully prevent
damage.
>
> I already know that 23# on pump is a no-no ---- these
lists are good for
> that. Some of this stuff is like plugging a light
bulb into the 220V
outlet,
>it gets real bright --- for a while. I've
read and saved some of your posts
>on things such as boost controllers and
the Krank vent --- when I get to
> that level I'll probably have some
questions. Especially boost
controllers,
>I have the AVCR which you
declined to try upon the advice of your
>mechanic but you could provide
information as to what to be aware of
>and what symptoms to look
for.
>
> I don't know if I'll push the car as hard as you seem to
--- street racing
>puts a lot of knife edge stress on an engine. One
injector sputtering for
>one second can burn a piston when your pushing
the limits. I talked to
>Matt Monett about the same issue, he's operating
at a higher level but
>each step forward results in finding a new weak
link and some of those
>links are expensive --- broken front differential
a month or two ago.
>Resolving the new link is usually more expensive
yet.
>
> It's like the old saying --- "It may be great to soar with
the eagles but
>weasels don't get sucked into jet exhausts" --- I'll just
hang with the
> weasels for a while and let someone else spend the
development dollars.
>
>.
Jim Berry
>>
=====================================================
In the pre
datalogger days we were all guessing, hoping and
holding our breaths,
Still - I should have known better.
Now that I have been able to
datalogger many runs, it has
become clear that I was running dangerously for
years -
most all of us were.
I still run hard but at more conservative
boost levels
depending on the fuel I can get. (or mix up)
It's
probably a good thing (for longevity of parts)
that about the best I
can do is 100 octane thus
placing limits on the max boost I can
run.
Forged pistons should also provide
extra insurance I didn't have in
the past.
Now that the suspension is more up to the task
of the power
output, I'm enjoying curves/twisties
much more than the past. The car
is more versatile
and the suspension is not being "overpowered".
The
Teins also solved the problem of heavy rear end
squat and light front end
which was causing
massive torque steer and front wheel spin.
The car is
now maintaining much better
weight distribution and preventing the
front
to rear weight transfer that has always caused
such a problem at
WOT. I'm very pleased to have
regained much better control in that
area.
Datalogging has also shown me the importance
of cool down
periods between long hard runs which can
be the difference between higher
knock levels
or low to none at the same boost settings. That's
an
area you may really have to keep a close
eye on during road racing. I
can usually run
higher boost (safely) the first run or two of
the
day/drive but from then on, detonation is more
easily produced unless
the car sits (not running)
for quiet a while.
I have gone out of my
way to spare
the tranny/drivetrain as best as I can. With enough
hp
it's generally not neccessary to abuse
the tranny for a few extra tenths in
my case. The original
small spline is still hanging in there and
shifting
well with only an occasional 2nd gear grind here
and there.
Redline and hard bushings at the
cable connectors, same CForce clutch now
nearly
8 years old. I'm hopeful the more recent
reduction in
rotational weight - CFDS and
lighter wheels will help to continue the
trend.
All the "big stuff" is finally done - refinement,
weight
reduction, tuning etc will be the emphasis
from here on out. (Also -
not blowing up is
very important:)
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:51:17
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porterfield Rotors
Kurt -- This WAS the last resort. Over
the winter enough rust got in
there (not a lot but some) to gum up the holes
that the 10mm bolts (or
whatever) would have screwed into. Putting
naval jelly in there was not
possible as the jar I have was not really that
accessible. I need a new
jar and I could have used an old syringe to
put it in there. It was
stuck in only one location (around one of the
five studs) and I felt
that if I pulled any hard than with my 180 pound body
I was going to
move the car off the jackstands. I was pulling but
didn't want to jerk
and tug at it. At first I had two shop towels
folded to prevent the
rotor from getting damaged but after seeing that it was
cracked I knew
it was the last use the rotor was going to see. Front
end was in the
air and the front steering was able to move so the bearings
did not take
as much force from the hammering as you may think.
I
bought a fresh can of anti-seize that day though and applied it the
next day
so I don't think I'll have to worry about it again. I didn't
have a
puller and this was the only car as it was during the day and the
store is
too far to walk. I just made due.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002
14:40
Your hammer method is probably the wrong way to go, or last
resort.
You may damage the hub or bearings that way.
You could have
scavenged a bolt from the car to use the built in hub
threaded holes, or use
a pulley puller instead.
Just FYI if others run into
this.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:07:14
-0800
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Removing Stock Rotors (was Porterfield Rotors)
I recently replaced my
stock rotors with Porterfield Rotors from Geoff. I
bought 2 bolts (10mm fine
I think) based on the threaded holes in the
Porterfields. I discovered that
the treaded holes in the stock rotors are
smaller. I was able to use two
bolts which mounted the radiator as the push
bolts. For those with active
aero, the two bolts we remove to get to the
front jack point are also the
correct size/thread to "push" the stock
rotors off of the hub. Both of my
rotors would not just come off by pulling
(I was pretty gentle), so I just
jumped in and used the two bolts I had
removed from the radiator bracket.
The came right off (very little effort).
NOTE: Remember to replace the
radiator brackt bolts!
-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A.
Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:16:27
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/ SS?
The method I
used for the bolts was soaking them in
liguid wrench for a couple of days,
then I put the
flange in a vice to hold it steady and took my single
jack
and gave each bolt a very good wack!, stright on
the top, this seemed to
break them free and I used my
large channel locks to remove them without to
much
trouble. I was prepared to go to my large pipe wrench
if that didn't
work but it did.
Peter
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:38:52
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: White Smoke Update - Oil in Turbo IC Pipe out
>How much does a
compression check cost from the
dealer? Any thoughts?<
I
would think if your dealer is like mine, they keep a
file on you and charge
as much as they can get by with
for each person. For replacing my fuel pump
my dealer
wanted over 900 dollars, he gave me a stright faced
lie telling
me how they would have to remove the fuel
tank and how hard it was to get to
the pump. He did
find the problem but at that point I called a tow
truck
and had them haul it home and started learning
about my car. In the end my
fuel pump doing it myself
cost about $150. It didn't requre removing the
fuel
tank or much of anything else, it took me about 15
minutes first
time.
Now the dealer does have a good tester that they can
just plug in
and find problems with great amount of
accuracy., when my car started losing
oil and blowing
smoke I ran it over to him and his man and they found
the
problem with the turbo. I have to give them that,
they have the diagnostic
tools. Now again I asked him
how much and he wanted... $1500 per turbo plus
about
$1000 for labor, again I cranked it up and drove home
becuase I have
learned with them that is always just a
starting figure and they will run it
up to twice that
before they get it done. I can hear the call now in
my
mind,
"Peter we have some bad news, you will need to replace
both
intercoolers and your bumper, won't add more then
another three grand!" Yes
I've learned how my Dodge
dealer operates, they are only a few blocks away
but
even for parts I have to buy them on line or by phone
out of state so
I don't get ripped off, gads they
wanted almost ten dollars each for the
turbo bolts,
that is why I learned how to remove
them.
Peter
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:14:44
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: How much do "xx" part weight?
I'm replying ON the list so people
who are interested can check the archives
in the future, where there was some
discussion ~July, 2000. (And to add
this info to our more current
archives until Mikael completes his report).
Go to the Search Page and enter
"VR-4 Race Car Project" (use the quotes) for
the full post. Geoff and I
weighed parts as we removed them, and posted our
results to the list.
Here are some of them:
Spare tire. 30 lbs.
Passenger door trim
panel. 18 lbs.
Dash shell. 24 lbs.
Carpet. 10
lbs.
A-pillar, headliner trim, hatch struts. 8 lbs.
Hatch
trim/wiper/wiper motor washer tank. 12 lbs.
Headliner, misc
trim. 11 lbs.
Rear seats, upper. 20 lbs.
Rear seats,
lower. 9 lbs.
Door glass (2). 24 lbs.
Misc rear trim,
privacy curtain. 12 lbs.
Sunroof assembly. 27
lbs.
More carpet. 8 lbs.
Passenger seat. 44
lbs.
Driver seat. 66 lbs.
Trailer hitch. 25
lbs.
Airbags (2), seat belt trim, dashboard hardware, steering
wheel,
steering column abs sensor, turn signals, wiper controls, lower
left
dash, abs computer, accessory switches, driver's side console
panel,
speedo/tach unit. 44 lbs.
Dash pod, visors, center
console trim, passenger mat, passenger
weatherstripping, defroster director
& tubing. 23 lbs.
Door hardware(2), hatch headliner, jack, rear
speaker enclosure, more
seatbelt hardware. 35 lbs.
Center
console (with misc. bolts, nuts, parts. 12 lbs.
Hope this saves
some of you a little time! Again, please reply to Mikael
OFF-list, with
individual parts weights.
Best,
Forrest
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
> Hi Team3S,
>
Since decreasing vehicle weight is one of the most effective ways to
be
fast (either on dragstrip, street or track) and save transmission etc I
have
started to compile a list of how much each 3000GT/stealth part weight.
The
most important ones for me to know is ofcourse heavy ones and the ones
that
we can live without or "easy" change to something lighter.
>
Doors? Hood? Stock rims? Drive shaft? Moon roof? Exhaust? AC
compressor?
etc
> I have weight information on seats and carpets etc.
And I have almost all
active aero parts so I can weigh them myself.
>
The list will be published when ready.
> Please send weight information
OFF LINE to me
mikael@3000gt.nu>
Thanks!
> /Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:20:55
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
5mm spacers
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax <
fastmax@cox.net>
To:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>; Philip V.
Glazatov
<
gphilip@umich.edu>
Date: Thursday,
March 14, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 5mm spacers
>Crazy
track racers --- sheesh --- we happen to be the chosen ones !!
>
>I
have the Ground Control coil overs with the GC camber and caster
>plates
and GAB struts so I can adjust as much as is reasonable. The
>Tien setup
seems nicer the GC unit, if I were to start over I think
>I'd go with the
Tien's. One thing I didn't like, but it may have changed,
>was the lack of
spring rates to choose from. With the Eibachs I have
>an almost unlimited
choice.
>
> Jim
Berry
>======================================
When I was gathering
info for my Tein purchase,
I came upon a posting of the available springs
with the
ratings listed for our setup. The poster listed the
specs
and the price converted from Yen at the time.
I *think* it was on 3SI.org -
if needed, I could
try to locate it again. It would probably take
some
time to order/get them if they aren't stocked at the
US distributor
location. An email to the US sales
staff at Tein.com would
confirm.
The GABS are no longer imported to the US so
that option was
out for me ...
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:40
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 5mm spacers
You mean the GR2 struts are no longer
available?!?!?!?? Please don't tell
me that I have friend who
wants them for his 96 SL
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Todd D.Shelton [SMTP:tds@brightok.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:21
PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 5mm spacers
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: fastmax <
fastmax@cox.net>
> To:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>; Philip V.
Glazatov
> <
gphilip@umich.edu>
> Date:
Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 5mm
spacers
>
> >Crazy track racers --- sheesh --- we happen to be
the chosen ones !!
> >
> >I have the Ground Control coil overs
with the GC camber and caster
> >plates and GAB struts so I can adjust
as much as is reasonable. The
> >Tien setup seems nicer the GC unit, if
I were to start over I think
> >I'd go with the Tien's. One thing I
didn't like, but it may have changed,
> >was the lack of spring rates
to choose from. With the Eibachs I have
> >an almost unlimited
choice.
> >
> > Jim
Berry
> >======================================
>
> When I
was gathering info for my Tein purchase,
> I came upon a posting of the
available springs with the
> ratings listed for our setup. The
poster listed the
> specs and the price converted from Yen at the
time.
> I *think* it was on 3SI.org - if needed, I could
> try to
locate it again. It would probably take some
> time to order/get
them if they aren't stocked at the
> US distributor location. An
email to the US sales
> staff at Tein.com would confirm.
>
>
The GABS are no longer imported to the US so
> that option was out for me
...
>
> - tds
>
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:26:17
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 5mm spacers
>
>The GABS are no longer imported to
the US so
>that option was out for me ...
>
Aha! I've been
trying to get confirmation on that. I need shocks. What else is available
besides stockers?
Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:15
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
5mm spacers
- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
'Todd D.Shelton' <
tds@brightok.net>
Cc: 'Team 3S' <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Friday, March 15, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 5mm
spacers
>You mean the GR2 struts are no longer
available?!?!?!?? Please don't tell
>me that I have friend who
wants them for his 96 SL
>
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No
GABS now - just the KYB and stock ECS. That was
the main reason I
passed on the GC and went with the
Tein HA with PB mounts. That plus
Tein dropped the
MSRP to $1490 and I found a group purchase for
even
less. A lot of money but not much more if you add
up the GC
plus new struts/shocks (mine had 58K)
and they are 16 way adjustable, use
helper springs, have very
good rebound (one of the major complaints with the
GC
and KYB or stock struts&shocks) and they also use
a small helper
spring in addition to the main spring
on each corner. I was
sceptical if they would be
as good as I've heard and read but I must say
the
car now does things I would have never thought
possible
before.
The GABS were clearly the best option if using
the GC but now
no longer for sale in the US. Maybe
they could somehow be imported on
an individual
basis from ?
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:50:05
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Throttle body, how big?
Be careful that you don't get *too* large
of a throttle body, or you lose
some of the functionality of your TB.
If it flows the max air that your
engine can draw at 50%, then opening the
throttle more than 50% will not
change your airflow (or power). Thus
you'd have all your usable throttle in
the 0-50% range. That's an
extreme example, but SCC did a review on a
larger TB on a Focus that ended up
not flowing any more air past about 80%
throttle.
> This is a
stretch, but we would probably have
> cars without throttle bodies if we
could modulate
> boost fast enough.
BMW has some new engines out
that don't have throttle bodies at all - they
have variable intake valve lift
and duration and that controls airflow.
Kinda cool.
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:53:40
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Help me please, broke bleeder screw
> If you
tried to put these bleeders in the rear calipers of a second
> gen (which
is your '95 VR-4) then they will not fit as Speed Bleeder
> does not make
them or at least the ones I have leak brake
> fluid so I put back in the
stock ones.
I have SB1010 bleeders in my rear calipers and they're
fine...
- --Erik
'95 VR-4 with stock brakes and speed bleeders all
around
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:13:40
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 1st gen/2nd gen changes
I should have mentioned this when there
was a thread on 2nd gen horsepower
changes, but as usual, I'm a week
behind. A Mitsu tech. told me several
years ago that the 2nd gen head
gasket was thinner than the first gen in
order to increase compression
slightly. I've never heard that mentioned on
the list. Can anyone
confirm?
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:09:55
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Fire Extinguishers
Does anybody have any info on fire
extiguishers? I don't think I can
justify a $300 halon system for
occasional open track use. Is there a cheap
but legit
alternative?
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:34:55
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fire Extinguishers
If you are -even- asking, you need to buy
an SCCA rulebook, and classify
anything else you hear as theory. Too
many people bank on whawt people
say without buying the book and reading
it.
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, bdtrent wrote:
> Does anybody have any
info on fire extiguishers? I don't think I can
> justify a $300
halon system for occasional open track use. Is there a cheap
> but
legit alternative?
>
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:41:28
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 5mm spacers
We could ask Dave Mashour (MKIV guy) from
PMImporting.com he may be able to get them however they may not be
cheap......
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd D.Shelton
Sent: Fri 3/15/2002 5:37 PM
To:
Cc: 'Team 3S'
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 5mm spacers
- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman,
Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
'Todd D.Shelton' <
tds@brightok.net>
Cc: 'Team 3S' <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 5mm spacers
>You mean the GR2 struts are no longer available?!?!?!?? Please don't
tell
>me that I have friend who wants them for his 96 SL
>
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No GABS now - just the KYB and stock ECS. That was
the main reason I
passed on the GC and went with the
Tein HA with PB mounts. That plus Tein
dropped the
MSRP to $1490 and I found a group purchase for even
less. A
lot of money but not much more if you add
up the GC plus new struts/shocks
(mine had 58K)
and they are 16 way adjustable, use helper springs, have very
good rebound (one of the major complaints with the GC
and KYB or stock
struts&shocks) and they also use
a small helper spring in addition to
the main spring
on each corner. I was sceptical if they would be
as good
as I've heard and read but I must say the
car now does things I would have
never thought
possible before.
The GABS were clearly the best option
if using
the GC but now no longer for sale in the US. Maybe
they could
somehow be imported on an individual
basis from ?
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:12:38
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fire Extinguishers
The only open track group that I've had require one is
the Alpha Romeo club
and they only required that you have an extinguisher
mounted within reach.
I have a 5 # dry powder type mounted on the passenger
side of the console.
I'm going to replace it with a 10 pound halon bottle I
have laying around.
I'd like to upgrade to an onboard fire suppression system
some day but as you
point out is a bit pricey --- I guess it depends on how
much you value your skin.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
> Does
anybody have any info on fire extiguishers? I don't think I can
>
justify a $300 halon system for occasional open track use. Is there a
cheap
> but legit alternative?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:15:30
-0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 1st gen/2nd gen changes
CAPS info:
>From 4/90-5/93
part number MD166720 was used
>From 6/93-present part number MD199239 was
used.
When did they start making 2nd gens?
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
>From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
>To: "Team
3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Team3S: 1st gen/2nd gen changes
>Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:13:40
-0500
>
>I should have mentioned this when there was a thread on 2nd
gen horsepower
>changes, but as usual, I'm a week behind. A Mitsu
tech. told me several
>years ago that the 2nd gen head gasket was thinner
than the first gen in
>order to increase compression slightly. I've
never heard that mentioned on
>the list. Can anyone
confirm?
>
>Regards,
>DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:19:37
-0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: timimg advance kit
Someone is advertising on ebay a kit to fool
the sensors on cold air coming
in. It is to advance the timing for more
(claiming 20 hp )hp. With out
knowing much about the ECU I don't
believe
this would be possible or recommended. Any experts have any
ideas?
Mike S
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:40:38
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: timimg advance kit
If you advance the timing too much (or maybe
at all), you could get some
serious knock, which is terribly bad for the
car... You would prolly
end up buying yourself a new engine before too
long...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Mike & Cathy
Sent:
Friday, March 15, 2002 6:20 PM
To: team3s stealth-3000gt
Subject: Team3S:
timimg advance kit
Someone is advertising on ebay a kit to fool the
sensors on cold air
coming
in. It is to advance the timing for more
(claiming 20 hp )hp. With out
knowing much about the ECU I don't
believe
this would be possible or recommended. Any experts have any
ideas?
Mike S
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:16
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Fire Extinguishers
Only place I had it requires was Great Plains
Region PCA at Heartland
Park. I just mounted it to the rollbar.
That rollbar comes in handy
sometimes. 2.5# was the minimum they
required I think. 5# is a good
size for track use.
Until you get
into real racing you don't need on-board or Halon style of
things. So
if someone is telling you to do that then investigate
further.
If you
can't find a copy of the SCCA rules then ask me as I have the CD
here and
book and can advise you on some things and what isn't covered
we can contact
SCCA or you might be able to find their rules online
(
www.scca.org).
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002
20:13
The only open track group that I've had require one is the
Alpha Romeo
club
and they only required that you have an extinguisher
mounted within
reach.
I have a 5 # dry powder type mounted on the
passenger side of the
console.
I'm going to replace it with a 10 pound
halon bottle I have laying
around.
I'd like to upgrade to an onboard fire
suppression system some day but
as you
point out is a bit pricey --- I
guess it depends on how much you value
your skin.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:15:18
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: timimg advance kit
This is an example of "performance" products
that are out there. Someone
was blaming this list earlier this week for not
making or offering products
here. Well, first, marketing products,
especially for profit, it not
encouraged on this list. Second, sellers like
that guy on Ebay are afraid
to post BS like this here because they will be
laughed out the door right
away.
If someone puts a resistor into the
intake air temperature sensor output
circuit, the ECU will think that the
air is colder and denser than it
actually is and will dump more fuel. The
Ebay guy just saw an improvement
and thought up a theory to explain it. What
he created was a simple
air-fuel controller. Ignition timing has no relation
to this whatsoever.
Later, the ECU will learn that it is dumping too much
fuel because the O2
will be reading too high and will adjust itself back.
The performance at
WOT may or may not be adjusted back, depending on the
algorithm that the
ECU uses. Roger is pioneering the research into the logic
our ECU during
the open-loop operation, I hope to hear from him when he
discovers something.
Can the 1st gens move the crank sensor to adjust
timing? On the 2nd gens
the only way that I know of to change timing is to
install an Apexi-ITC, an
ignition timing controller. I am installing a SAFC
this weekend and I might
install the ITC as well. I might need some help
with Japanese because I
need to at least know what color wires to use and
the whole manual is in
Japanese.
Philip
At 07:19 PM 3/15/2002,
Mike & Cathy wrote:
>Someone is advertising on ebay a kit to fool the
sensors on cold air coming
>in. It is to advance the timing for more
(claiming 20 hp )hp. With out
>knowing much about the ECU I don't
believe
>this would be possible or recommended. Any experts have any
ideas?
>Mike S
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:16:48
-0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: intercoolers
I have my intercoolers out cleaning them. Looking at
them and measuring them
they are 71/2"
square (core). Summit Racing
has a 7"x 2.55"thick and a 8"x 2.32" fans that
move 400cfm .
By moving the
oil cooler back and placing a fan between the intercooler and
oil cooler it
should
benifit both in the cooling, mostly during heavy traffic. Has anyone
given
this a try? The 8'
would be a push to fit, but I'am sure it will.
What would the effect of HWY
speeds have on the fans if any?
Mike S
92 rt tt Wash St
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:27:28
-0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Transfercase for 6 speed
What year did they start making the
stronger TC's? I have not heard of
this before?!
Matt Nelson
1994
RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone
503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Mikael Kenson
Sent: Friday,
March 15, 2002 2:27 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Transfercase for 6 speed
How much stronger is the cast iron gen 3
transfercase compared to a
first gen aluminium TC?
Will it brake in
the housing/case as my previos aluminium ones has done?
(I split them in two
so one half falls to the ground!)
Has anyone had one of these improved
TC's to fail?
/Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:28:26
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Throttle body, how big?
At 06:50 PM 3/15/2002, Gross, Erik
wrote:
>Be careful that you don't get *too* large of a throttle body, or
you lose
>some of the functionality of your TB. If it flows the max
air that your
>engine can draw at 50%, then opening the throttle more than
50% will not
>change your airflow (or power). Thus you'd have all
your usable throttle in
>the 0-50% range. That's an extreme example,
but SCC did a review on a
>larger TB on a Focus that ended up not flowing
any more air past about 80%
>throttle.
One more thing about *too*
large of a throttle body. The throttle position
sensor will not be operating
correctly. If a half-open throttle can flow
all the air, then you will be in
effect at WOT. But the ECU will think that
you are only at 50%. It will then
be working in the closed-loop mode (read
- - lean mode) and you surely do
not want this.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:53:57
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: timimg advance kit
In my early years I bought that kit for
the Camaro too. One can get it in
various shops or catalogs. Some call it
timing advance kit some cold air
input simulator.
As Philip explained
it's nothing else than a resistor. On my Camaro, the Air
temp is measured in
the ellbow a few inches away from the butterfly throttle
body. But when
running a cold air intake with a the filter located in the
bumper the
resistor is used to tell the ECU it's gettign colder and
denser
air.
In fact the result on the Camaro was a rich mixture until
the ECU has
relearned. The timing got advanced but only a little and the
G-Tech showed
no improvement. The less sophisticated the ECU is the more the
part may have
an influence to it's functionality. The ARC 2 GP fuel
controller for an
example simulates a static 20°C to the ECU. This should
prevent it from
adjusting the fuel curve otherwise the settings on the ARC
have to be
changed again and again.
The ITC (hooked up correctly) or
other standalone and piggy-back systems are
some solutions to tweak the
systems ignition timing controlled.
Regardign manuals in English for
Apexi products, here is a link to them :
http://www.apexi-usa.com/documentation.aspRoger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: "Mike &
Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>;
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Saturday, March 16, 2002 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: timimg advance
kit
> This is an example of "performance" products that are out there.
Someone
> was blaming this list earlier this week for not making or
offering
products
> here. Well, first, marketing products, especially
for profit, it not
> encouraged on this list. Second, sellers like that
guy on Ebay are afraid
> to post BS like this here because they will be
laughed out the door right
> away.
snip
> ignition timing
controller. I am installing a SAFC this weekend and I
might
> install
the ITC as well. I might need some help with Japanese because I
> need to
at least know what color wires to use and the whole manual is in
>
Japanese.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:02:23
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: intercoolers
It sure will work, no problem.
But in
traffic you do not boost up, right ? Therefore the discharge
temperature is
lower anyways and the efficiency of the intercoolers
degraded. The heat will
be transfered very quickly when you can run again on
faster speeds so the
normal operating is given after a few seconds.
I think it is more
important to check the temperature of the oil and water
than the intake
temperature. Tthis is what is dangerous as they don't come
down quick after
sitting in traffic mode. A bigger oil cooler or such a fan
on the oil cooler
may be a better solution. Also more air flowing fans
behind the radiator may
help to keep teh fluids cooler. It is somewhat
simple : to prevent detonation
and having more power at WOT, colder and
denser intake temperature is needed,
to prevent damage and to keep the
internals cool the water and oil should be
cooled.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
To:
"team3s stealth-3000gt" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:16 AM
Subject: Team3S: intercoolers
> I
have my intercoolers out cleaning them. Looking at them and
measuring
them
> they are 71/2"
> square (core). Summit
Racing has a 7"x 2.55"thick and a 8"x 2.32" fans
that
> move 400cfm
.
> By moving the oil cooler back and placing a fan between the
intercooler
and
> oil cooler it should
> benifit both in the
cooling, mostly during heavy traffic. Has anyone given
> this a try? The
8'
> would be a push to fit, but I'am sure it will. What would the effect
of
HWY
> speeds have on the fans if any?
> Mike S 92 rt tt Wash
St
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:20:43
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fire Extinguishers
Thanks for the info. The idea of having
an extinguisher available for
myself or anyone else, seems like a good
one. As far as SCCA goes, (I can
say this since I'm a member).
It's the only club I know of that requires
you to buy the rules. I
never did like rules enough to be willing to pay
for them
;-)
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "'Team
3S'" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, March 15, 2002 10:20 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fire
Extinguishers
Only place I had it requires was Great Plains Region
PCA at Heartland
Park. I just mounted it to the rollbar. That
rollbar comes in handy
sometimes. 2.5# was the minimum they required I
think. 5# is a good
size for track use.
Until you get into real
racing you don't need on-board or Halon style of
things. So if someone
is telling you to do that then investigate
further.
If you can't find
a copy of the SCCA rules then ask me as I have the CD
here and book and can
advise you on some things and what isn't covered
we can contact SCCA or you
might be able to find their rules online
(
www.scca.org).
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002
20:13
The only open track group that I've had require one is the Alpha
Romeo
club
and they only required that you have an extinguisher mounted
within
reach.
I have a 5 # dry powder type mounted on the passenger side
of the
console.
I'm going to replace it with a 10 pound halon bottle I
have laying
around.
I'd like to upgrade to an onboard fire suppression
system some day but
as you
point out is a bit pricey --- I guess it
depends on how much you value
your skin.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:41:48
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: timimg advance kit
For the member and owners not familiar
with how our cars work, they
should read through the 1991 Stealth Technical
Information Manual
(available at my web site and on the Team3S web site) and
through the
1990 Laser/Talon Technical Information Manual (available on
Vinny's
Manual on CD and occasionally on eBay; and eventually on my
web
site). These manuals explain in great detail how the fuel and
ignition
systems work. The Stealth TIM states that ECM cntrol of the
fuel and ignition
is the same as for the 4G63 (Laser/Talon).
Timing advance *does* depend
on intake air temp but not in the manner
that the ebay seller describes. The
ECM will make an intake air temp
(IAT) correction to timing as follows: "...
when it is low, the
ignition timing is delayed to prevent knocking in cold
weather. When
it is high, the timing is also delayed to prevent knocking."
These
effects are exactly opposite of what the ebay seller claims!
As
other members have mentioned, the ECM uses the IAT to determine
air mass flow
and a lower temp will compute to more mass flowing than
actually is and so
lead to a richer mixture than optimal (according
to ECM programming). The ECM
can compensate for this in closed loop
mode but not in open loop
mode.
The ECM also makes a barometric pressure correction: "When
the
pressure is low (i.e. when the vehicle is at high altitude),
the
ignition timing is advanced to secure maximum driveability."
The
third correction factor is for engine cooolant temp - timing is
advanced when
coolant temp is low.
The VPC and ARC2 devices both send a constant signal
to the ECM for
air temp and barometric pressure. I am not sure what the VPC
sends
but the signal from an ARC2 can vary from unit to unit. Mine
tells
the ECM the air temp is 1.99 volts or 96ºF (35ºC) and that baro
is
3.2 volts or 0.8 bar (strangely, what it should be near 5000'
ASL).
Other's ARC2 units may report different values.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:52:21
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: timimg advance kit
Jeff,
Are you aware of anyone
datalogging timing changes WRT ambient temp. (all
else being equal of
course). I've long been impressed with how much better
my car runs in
cool air. The improvment seems much greater than most
estimates
imply. The thought that my ECU is retarding timing to compensate
for
higher air density seems counter
intuitive.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Saturday, March 16, 2002 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: timimg advance
kit
For the member and owners not familiar with how our cars work,
they
should read through the 1991 Stealth Technical Information
Manual
(available at my web site and on the Team3S web site) and through
the
1990 Laser/Talon Technical Information Manual (available on
Vinny's
Manual on CD and occasionally on eBay; and eventually on my
web
site). These manuals explain in great detail how the fuel and
ignition
systems work. The Stealth TIM states that ECM cntrol of the
fuel and ignition
is the same as for the 4G63 (Laser/Talon).
Timing advance *does* depend
on intake air temp but not in the manner
that the ebay seller describes. The
ECM will make an intake air temp
(IAT) correction to timing as follows: "...
when it is low, the
ignition timing is delayed to prevent knocking in cold
weather. When
it is high, the timing is also delayed to prevent knocking."
These
effects are exactly opposite of what the ebay seller claims!
As
other members have mentioned, the ECM uses the IAT to determine
air mass flow
and a lower temp will compute to more mass flowing than
actually is and so
lead to a richer mixture than optimal (according
to ECM programming). The ECM
can compensate for this in closed loop
mode but not in open loop
mode.
The ECM also makes a barometric pressure correction: "When
the
pressure is low (i.e. when the vehicle is at high altitude),
the
ignition timing is advanced to secure maximum driveability."
The
third correction factor is for engine cooolant temp - timing is
advanced when
coolant temp is low.
The VPC and ARC2 devices both send a constant signal
to the ECM for
air temp and barometric pressure. I am not sure what the VPC
sends
but the signal from an ARC2 can vary from unit to unit. Mine
tells
the ECM the air temp is 1.99 volts or 96ºF (35ºC) and that baro
is
3.2 volts or 0.8 bar (strangely, what it should be near 5000'
ASL).
Other's ARC2 units may report different values.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:00:14
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: ARC voltage output for IAT (was timimg advance kit)
> The VPC
and ARC2 devices both send a constant signal to the ECM for
> air temp and
barometric pressure. I am not sure what the VPC sends
> but the signal
from an ARC2 can vary from unit to unit. Mine tells
> the ECM the air temp
is 1.99 volts or 96ºF (35ºC) and that baro is
> 3.2 volts or 0.8 bar
(strangely, what it should be near 5000' ASL).
> Other's ARC2 units may
report different values.
I once spoke with Split Second and they say
voltage output for simulating
the sensors is for 20°C and 0.5 bars pressure.
I remember once logging the
data and it showed those values. What is the
logger telling you and have you
measured the voltage with the wires
attachedto the ECU or not ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:02:19
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: timimg advance kit
- --- bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net> wrote:
> The
thought that my ECU is retarding timing to compensate
> for higher air
density seems counter intuitive.
The manual is not explicit on this but
what it means is that when the
IAT is below a certain value or above a
certain value it will retard
timing. The ECM does not retard timing based on
temp *alone* (why
should it?), but at temp extremes for the reason given,
knock
control. I do not know what these exact values are.
In general,
the following is true for ignition timing advance.
1. Timing advances as RPM
increase (events are happening faster).
2. Timing decreases with engine load
(as combustion pressure builds
and the chance for detonation increases).
Engine load increases as
more air flows (also wider throttle opening) at a
given RPM.
3. Timing decreases with richer mixtures (denser mixtures
burn
faster).
There is no reason for timing to be retarded (or
advanced) at
slightly higher air densities (slightly cooler temps) if the
air-fuel
mixture is being maintained. Denser air just means more fuel needs
to
added (or less air used) to maintain the desired A/F. However, as
A/F
decreases (that is, gets richer) then timing will decrease
because
denser mixtures (richer means denser) burn faster as so less
timing
advance is needed.
One possibility for percieved "improved"
performance is cold weather
is that a level of performance is achieved with
less throttle. Of
course! Denser air means less throttle opening is needed
(less air
flow) to achieve xxx bhp. Or at the same throttle opening, more
air
mass is flowing and so more fuel and more bhp produced.
Jeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:19:02
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ARC voltage output for IAT
When I talked to Mark at Split
Second on 3/15/00, he explained that
the ARC2 sends a nominal 4 volts for the
baro signal (that would be
about 1 bar or sea level) and a 20ºC (68ºF) air
temp signal (2.74
kOmhs resistance) to the ECM. My datalogger reports
slightly
different actual numbers, 96ºF and 0.8 baro. This should make
no
difference at all, except perhaps for how the Low, Mid, and High
dials
are set. It seems that SS has been changing the functional
specs of the ARC2
over time.
I have not measured the ARC2 wire voltages without them
being
connected to the ECM. The only values that matter for engine
function
are what the ECM sees (ARC2 connected).
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
> The VPC and ARC2 devices both send a constant signal to the ECM
>
for
> > air temp and barometric pressure. I am not sure what the
VPC
> sends
> > but the signal from an ARC2 can vary from unit to
unit. Mine
> tells
> > the ECM the air temp is 1.99 volts or 96ºF
(35ºC) and that baro
> is
> > 3.2 volts or 0.8 bar (strangely,
what it should be near 5000'
> ASL).
> > Other's ARC2 units may
report different values.
>
> I once spoke with Split Second and
they say voltage output for
> simulating
> the sensors is for 20°C
and 0.5 bars pressure. I remember once
> logging the
> data and it
showed those values. What is the logger telling you and
> have you
>
measured the voltage with the wires attachedto the ECU or not ?
>
>
Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:56:24
+0100
From: Jim Matthews <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Replacement door speakers for Infinity sound system
Same thing
happened to me last year (left-front door speaker in my 1994
TT).
Rather than upgrading all of my speakers and having to worry
about fitment,
I ordered the replacement speaker from MitsuPartsDirect
(around $60, if
memory serves) and it was very easy to replace
(instructions in shop
manual). Good luck!
- -Jim Matthews
Munich, Germany (currently
on vacation in the States)
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html-
---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:09:12
-0600
>From: Matt Costanza <
mcostanza@austin.rr.com>
>Subject: Team3S: Replacement door speakers for Infinity sound
system
>To: 3000gt <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>I
seemed to have blown the left front door speaker in my 97 3000GT SL.
>I'm
now looking for a replacement. From what I understand, I can't just
>go
get any speaker. I have to get a exact replacement that matches
the
>Infinity sound system in the car. So I have two questions. First,
does
>anyone have a source for replacement speakers? Second, how hard is
it
to
>remove the whole door panel to get to the door speakers?
>
>Thanks in advance for any info.
>
>Regards,
>--
>Matt Costanza
>Austin, Tx
USA
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:52:33
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transfercase for 6 speed
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
>
What year did they start making the stronger TC's? I have not heard of
>
this before?!
- -----------------------------
I think these are the
different versions...
First gen TC, 91-92, Aluminium, 18 splines (5 speed
gear box)
Second gen TC, 93, Aluminium, 25 splines (5 speed gear
box)
Third gen TC, 94, Aluminium, haven't counted splines, (6 speed gear
box)
Fourth gen TC, 95-99, Cast iron, haven't counted splines, (6 speed
gear box)
If you want to see the difference you can check my web page for
pictures of a second gen TC lined up next to a fourth gen TC.
http://www.3000gt.nu click on "Modifications" in
the menu.
Please note that you can't mix 5 speed and 6 speed parts. If
you wan't to upgrade you need to change Gearbox, rear dif, drive shaft, Transfer
case, shifter, shifter cables and lower radiator hose (!).
/Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#784
***************************************