Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, March 15
2002 Volume 01 : Number
783
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:56 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
HELP - Car dying at idle
Everyone that responded,
The 93 Base
Stealth (5 speed) that was dying at idle yesterday is fine
today. No
more problems. It drove fine without me doing anything
to
it.
Thanks for the input.
- -MIHAI-
>Mihai,
>Does it EVER maintain it's idle?
>
>Could be your idler
motor, happened to me. If so, it either just needs
>cleaning or in
worse scenarios, replacing.
>
>Shannon
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:34
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Suspension light blinking on 94 3000gt
You can't tell whether
the connection is good without removing the big
rubber cap (three nuts) which
is called a dust cover. Sure there is a
harness connection outside the
rubber cap, but the connection to the top of
the strut is UNDER the cap. With
an indication of leakage on the left, I
would replace that strut, with or
without a code. I'd probably try to get
the code 61 to disappear by
cleaning and reconnecting the connector to the
top of the strut, but at 103K
miles with one strut already looking bad, it's
reasonable to expect to
replace the other, too.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: RJM [SMTP:rjmsmail@swbell.net]
> Sent: Monday,
March 11, 2002 7:55 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suspension light blinking on 94 3000gt
>
>
Well,
> I managed to answer all but 4.) and 5.) below: I have a 2nd
gen. car by
> the shape
> of the trapezoid (I didn't notice Chuck's
details below) and determined a
> code 61.
> But the right front
shock looks OK except the black "cap" (under the hood)
> is a bit
>
loose, but it has been loose for some time and wasn't all the way off.
>
Connection
> looks good. Guess the shock is failing????
I don't understand because
> the TOUR
> ride seemed good, it is the
left driver's side shock that looks like it
> may be
> leaking
slightly. I wonder if I will eventually ruin these new
tires,
> the only
> difference in the ride, now always in SPORT
mode, is probably that the
> bottoming
> out" sound I sometimes here
is more frequent. ANY IDEAS MUCH APPRECIATED.
> 103,000
> miles
on original struts (no shocks?). Thanks again.
Bob
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:37:47
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
The ability to spend my day at high RPM is one of the reasons
I
talked myself into the 368's ---- under race conditions I spend a
lot
of time near redline [ as a matter of fact I recommended that
method to cure
lifter tick --- It works for me ].
I may have to change my driving style
or if it's too bad I'll have to
sell them off and get some ball bearing
turbos --- the design goal
is 27# to redline [ preferably more than once
].
Jim Berry
PS --- I
may be bugging you for information when I get the
system
ready, if
you're willing.
PPS --- do you have a cold air inlet for the intake ??
maybe a scoop
and some
kind of isolation
box
.
================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: <
tds@brightok.net>
> > Nobody
seems to think that extra volume is a problem [ within reason of
> >
course ]. My pair of 368 turbos can put out about 1000 cfm so a couple
>
> of extra cubic feet of volume should not be an issue. At 16 cfs it
would
> > only take the turbos 1/8 of a second to fill two cubic
feet of intercooler
> > and additional hard pipes.
> >
> > Jim berry
>
> ========================================
>
----------------------------------------------------
>
> Not to be
negative, but based on my experience
> with the 368s, I would think they
would just
> be horrible to road race with. If all the
corners
> were fairly fast sweepers where the revs could be
> kept
high, it wouldn't be so bad but low speed corners
> that are too fast to
drop into first but lower rpm
> in 2nd could be devestating.
>
> Those babies (368s) raise the powerband - that is,
> you lose
power on the bottom. To be more clear,
> it just takes longer to
spool and usable boost
> is higher than before (15g for example).
There
> is a larger area at lower rpm where the car is just
> a
slug.
>
> I've done a lot work to combat this - tubular
headers,
> raising timing, experimenting with cam gears to lower
>
power band etc. I'm still not really satisfied and
> I'm set up
(mostly) for street wars.
>
> I've learned to keep the rpm higher
than I used to -
> jumping from one car to the other (daily driver
Z-28)
> might make it seem worse?
>
> I've often wondered if
something between a 15g and the
> 368 would be better suited for my needs
and what I
> really want .... ?
>
> Overall - not so
bad, but slow speed corners in 2nd
> gear at low rpm leaves much to be
desired IMO.
>
> More than once I've said to myself: "this would
suck
> trying to go full throttle out of a corner whilst road
>
racing".
>
> Of course eventually boost builds and all is
fine
> but at times (depending on rpm, gear etc) it takes
> longer
than I like - even considering we are using
> turbos.
>
>
It's probable that my custom monster exhaust and
> race "mufflers"
contribute to the problem, but
> how much I'm not sure ..... might be able
to
> restrict exhaust a bit more for low end/offboost
> torque
increase?
>
> The 15gs were nearly instantaneous in their
thrust
> with my setup but ran out of air on top - down to 17-
> 18
psi no matter the setting ... The 368s never run
> out of air on top but
at times it sure does take a bit
> to get those babies spinning.
Seems to get worse the
> hotter the car and the warmer the weather/ambient
temp.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:54:41
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: another injector question...
>thing that's been troubling
me are the IDC values. Almost no knock
>(I've seen 2 or 3 spikes of
1 knock count, a couple 4 knock counts :) so
>that's good. I have
been running lean at times (.86-.92), but usually
>stay right around .92
O2. After I did the fuel pump relay bypass, the
>IDC's did drop
~5-10% across, it looked like the relay had corroded some
>(there was also
a dead spider in the empty hole in there... :-D). I've
>also been
getting very poor mileage (14-16mpg)
Mostly the bad mileage is caused by
the relay bypass as the ECU controls
the relay. The decrease in IDC is not
caused by the relay unless you had
lower voltage in general. Always solve
the problem and do not fight the
sympton. The bypass is NOT
recommended.
>, so I threw in some
>injector cleaner this past
sunday, hoping it might help both problems.
>I thought about actually
finding 396cc injectors... :) Haven't really
>looked around yet
though. Wanted to see if it was actually worth it
>first.
I
don't know any injectors that would fit our cars with such
specs.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:00:00
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
GT368 turbos do not "put out" any more volume flow than stock 9B
>
turbos.All the 368s can do is flow denser air (more mass flow in
> other
words). The DISPLACEMENT, RPM, and VE determine *volume* flow
> and the
very maximum *volume* of air that can flow through our engine
> is about
400 cfm, period.
Your own mass air flow calculator shows the CFM
requirements of our engine
to be 667 cfm at a pressure ratio of 2 and 332 cfm
at a pressure ratio of 1. While
I understand that the displacement of the
engine didn't change it seems that
the convention of using volume air flow or
CFM, rather than the term air density
at a pressure ratio of 2, has been
established, period.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:31:28
-0500
From: Joe Kenwabikise <
jdk88888@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: another injector question...
Funny thing though... my mileage
actually went up (from ~14mpg to
~16.5mpg) after I did the bypass! The
connections did look pretty bad
as I said before.
I'm actually
planning on a more complete rewire once I get some money
and time, possibly
using the stock bypass...
I emailed venom performance, as they say
they can custom build almost
any injector need, so we'll see how that pans
out.
Joe K
91 RT/TT black
Roger Gerl
wrote:
>
> >thing that's been troubling me are the IDC
values. Almost no knock
> >(I've seen 2 or 3 spikes of 1 knock
count, a couple 4 knock counts :) so
> >that's good. I have been
running lean at times (.86-.92), but usually
> >stay right around .92
O2. After I did the fuel pump relay bypass, the
> >IDC's did drop
~5-10% across, it looked like the relay had corroded some
> >(there was
also a dead spider in the empty hole in there... :-D). I've
>
>also been getting very poor mileage (14-16mpg)
>
> Mostly the
bad mileage is caused by the relay bypass as the ECU controls
> the relay.
The decrease in IDC is not caused by the relay unless you had
> lower
voltage in general. Always solve the problem and do not fight the
>
sympton. The bypass is NOT recommended.
>
> >, so I threw in
some
> >injector cleaner this past sunday, hoping it might help both
problems.
> >I thought about actually finding 396cc injectors...
:) Haven't really
> >looked around yet though. Wanted to
see if it was actually worth it
> >first.
>
> I don't know
any injectors that would fit our cars with such specs.
>
>
Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:58:53
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: excessive battery corrosion
Thank you for the imput, I have
ordered a new battery
cable and also ordered a new high pressure fuel
line
as the corrosion caused excessive rusting of that line
and I just
felt I couldn't trust it anymore. I do have
a question that concerns the new
turbos "13G's" I
wonder if as I have heard the 13G's where used on
the
Euro model cars....did they have a different factory
BOV or
Waste
gate control solenoid valve, or even if the
program was changed on the
ECU. I was hoping that
they would work on my 92 Stealth without running
rich
or lean on the factory equipment. I have changed to
the K&N Air
filter and was thinking after I road test
to remove the restricter on the
waste gate control
selenoid to get a little extra boost. I don't plan
on
racing my car, just keeping it a fast street legal
machine. I like lots
of power, 0 to 60 range and also
50 to 85 range.
peter 92 Stealth RT
TT
Sun roof, pearl white.
K&N filter, 13G turbos
17" wheels
Thoughts of new gage for Boost
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:04:32
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: excessive battery corrosion
You are fine with factory everything
when it comes to replacing the 9B
with a 13G. Your car will still boost
the same amount. If you want a
lot more power, a boost controller will
be needed. The reason 13G's
were used over there was due to the
Autobahn, and long distances at high
speeds requiring a cooler air flow,
which 9b's simply can't produce for
extended periods of time.
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of menalteed
Sent: Thursday,
March 14, 2002 10:59 AM
To: Willis, Charles E.
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE:
Team3S: excessive battery corrosion
Thank you for the imput, I have
ordered a new battery
cable and also ordered a new high pressure fuel
line
as the corrosion caused excessive rusting of that line
and I just
felt I couldn't trust it anymore. I do have
a question that concerns the new
turbos "13G's" I
wonder if as I have heard the 13G's where used on
the
Euro model cars....did they have a different factory
BOV or
Waste
gate control solenoid valve, or even if the
program was changed on the
ECU. I was hoping that
they would work on my 92 Stealth without running
rich
or lean on the factory equipment. I have changed to
the K&N Air
filter and was thinking after I road test
to remove the restricter on the
waste gate control
selenoid to get a little extra boost. I don't plan
on
racing my car, just keeping it a fast street legal
machine. I like lots
of power, 0 to 60 range and also
50 to 85 range.
peter 92 Stealth RT
TT
Sun roof, pearl white.
K&N filter, 13G turbos
17" wheels
Thoughts of new gage for Boost
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:05:19
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: another injector question...
> Mostly the bad mileage is
caused by the relay
> bypass as the ECU controls the relay. The
>
decrease in IDC is not caused by the relay
> unless you had lower voltage
in general. Always
> solve the problem and do not fight the
>
sympton. The bypass is NOT recommended.
I agree to solve the real problem
and not mask the symptoms, but I'm curious
why you think the bypass is not
recommended. As long as the FPR can return
enough fuel to the tank to
keep the fuel pressure set properly it shouldn't
make any
difference.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:08:13
US/Central
From:
tds@brightok.netSubject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
> The ability to spend my day at high RPM is one of the reasons
I
> talked myself into the 368's ---- under race conditions I spend a
> lot of time near redline [ as a matter of fact I recommended
that
> method to cure lifter tick --- It works for me ].
>
>
I may have to change my driving style or if it's too bad I'll have to
>
sell them off and get some ball bearing turbos --- the design goal
>
is 27# to redline [ preferably more than once ].
>
> Jim Berry
>
> PS --- I may be bugging you for information when I get the
system
>
ready, if you're willing.
>
> PPS --- do you have a cold air inlet
for the intake ?? maybe a scoop
>
and some kind of isolation
box
>
.
> ================================================
That would be
the trick - keeping rpm up.
The character of the car/motor is changed -
higher
and narrower powerband with a larger anemic zone
on the
bottom. Believe it or not - GT on the PS
does a good job of simulating
this when the larger
turbo upgrade is added.
I would be willing to
give up some of the high PSI
capability (25+ to ?) at redline for quicker
spoolup.
They hardly break a sweat at the levels I use them.
27+ at
redline is very ambitious. I can't run anywhere
near that (safely) with
100 octane and denatured alc injection.
It's really not as bad as I may
be making it seem
(on the street) but it does suffer at low rpm and
I
really like low end torque that moves things along
"right now".
I'll
be glad to help in any way though I don't consider
myself an expert nor have
all the answers.
I've been using a custom scoop built by using
stock
strut covers (2), aluminum bracket to raise, bodywork etc.
Pics are
posted ...
We've talked about an isolation box but have never have built
one.
Dual VPC intakes with small (Black Panther) battery help
with
airpath though still not ideal. Bugs, sand etc indicate
plenty of air
coming in ...
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tdsThis
message was sent using BrightNet MailMan.
http://www.Brightok.net/mailman/***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:34:29
-0500
From: Mark Frouhar <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Help me please, broke bleeder screw
"Willis, Charles E." wrote:
>
> I believe this is a universal truth independent of the make of model of
car.
Hey Charles,
I did the same thing 3 weeks ago. I
had a seized driver side caliper and after
replacing it I was putting in
speed bleeders in all the calipers in order to do
a full system bleed.
I stripped the front PAX caliper mainly due to rusty threads
and partially
due to bad design of "Earl's" speed bleeders. I give the Earl's
speed
bleeders a thumbs down, Russell bleeders are much better. I don't
have any experience
with "Speed Bleeders".
I took my caliper to a
local race shop (these guy are top notch BTW) and they tapped
the caliper for
this special bushing + Russell speed bleeder. The speed bleeder is
really
tiny compared to the OEM one. The bushing has pipe
threads. After bolting up the repaired
caliper I noticed is was seeping
brake fluid. I ended up taking it out and putting it back
with some
teflon tape. That solved the problem, I've been checking the brake fluid
and it
looks like it's holding up OK. This special pushing is a
standard part on certain Willwood
racing brake calipers. I can find the
part# for you if you like.
>From what I gathered putting in a larger
bleeder screw is not an option because the seat
size is different and it
won't seal. So the only option really is to go with some sort
of pipe
thread arrangement to ensure a positive seal. The willwood bushing that
I'm talking
about has it's own seat on the inside so you can use an off the
shelf bleeder screw.
BTW this is my first post to Team3S so hello
everybody. I picked up a black 95 VR4 about
3 months ago as a winter
driver/snowboard car. I've been lurking on this list ever since trying
to
learn more about these cars. So far I've changed a pair of rear axle
bearings. Performed
some dremel surgery to open the hood that was
stuck and recently did a full front brake job
to cure some nasty
vibrations. I put in Porterfield R4S pads and ATE Blue brake fluid. I
picked
up some Blizzak LM tires mounted on 17" rims for winter weather duty
and I've been having entirely
too much fun with this car so far as VT state
troopers can attest to I'm sure.
My other car is an 85' TransAm which
I've owned for 10 years now, it's gone through endless
changes. In it's
present form it's setup for Open tracking with 13" rotors, brake
ducts,
racing seats, 5 point harness, 379 ci motor T56 6 speed,
etc.
Anyway I'm on a couple of lists and you guys run a clean show, glad
to be here.
-Mark Frouhar
95 VR4
85 TA 379 DFI T56
http://www.geocities.com/Legoland0***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:45:14
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FMIC
Jim,
Convention (promulgated by the NA crowd)
does usually state the
uncompressed, atmospheric air flow that is drawn in by
the turbos as
the engine "air flow". However, the *reality* is still as I
stated
earlier, the actual air volume flow through the ICs (the subject
of
the discussion) and the engine (my addition to the subject)
is
determined by the displacement, RPM, and VE. Folks may say their
3S
engine is flowing 1000 CFM, or whatever, but the volume flow
through
the IC is never greater than 400 cfm (or 200 in a dual
setup).
Perhaps a better convention would be to state the *turbos*
are
flowing 1000 cfm (not the engine).
This distinction is
particularly important for evaluating FMICs. Look
at the figure that Paul
Prentis privides at his web site for the FMIC
that he supplies.
http://www.ppeengineering.comThat
FMIC is rated at 1280 cfm with a 1.5 psi drop at some
unmentioned vehicle
speed. Look at the figure and draw a vertical
line at the 3.0L engine size
mark, which also states "390 cfm", as it
should. It is these values for
efficiency and pressure drop that
potential buyers of Paul's FMIC should
consider. Not the rather less
favorable values at 1000 cfm (not even shown).
For dual side mounts,
IC characteristics for 1.5L engines (~195 cfm) should
be used.
I know I sound like a broken record, but misperceptions
concerning
actual engine volume flow are pervasive among turbo-car owners.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
To: "Jeff Lucius"
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: FMIC
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
GT368 turbos do not "put out" any more volume flow than stock 9B
>
turbos.All the 368s can do is flow denser air (more mass flow in
> other
words). The DISPLACEMENT, RPM, and VE determine *volume* flow
> and the
very maximum *volume* of air that can flow through our
engine
> is
about 400 cfm, period.
Your own mass air flow calculator shows the CFM
requirements of our
engine to be 667 cfm at a pressure ratio of 2 and 332 cfm
at a
pressure ratio of 1. While I understand that the displacement of
the
engine didn't change it seems that the convention of using volume
air
flow or CFM, rather than the term air density at a pressure ratio
of
2, has been established,
period.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:28:00
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: For Sale...1st gen hood
I have a green 93 R/T 1st Gen hood for
sale....... 100.00
It is in great condition with only small surface scratches
and one
very small ding....I have done a 99 conversion and no longer need
it.
must come pick it up...I live in Renton Wa
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:18:04
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: For Sale...1st gen hood
I would like to hear more on how the
conversion went.
How long it took and did all the parts fit. Did you
need
to re paint everything and how much. Is the stuff
local here in Washington
and do you have a good
machinic that you know of in the Seattle area. Who
did
your paint if you had it painted, and did the
intercoolers need
replacement. Do you have pictures?
peter 92 Stealth TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:28:53
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: For Sale...1st gen hood
I have one in Texas also, if someone here
needs one... 1st gen hood,
needs painted, no scratches, just bad
paint...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of ek2mfg
Sent: Thursday, March
14, 2002 1:28 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: For Sale...1st gen hood
I have a green 93 R/T 1st Gen hood for
sale....... 100.00
It is in great condition with only small surface scratches
and one
very small ding....I have done a 99 conversion and no longer need
it.
must come pick it up...I live in Renton Wa
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:03
US/Central
From:
tds@brightok.netSubject: RE: Team3S: For
Sale...1st gen hood
> I have one in Texas also, if someone here needs
one... 1st gen hood,
> needs painted, no scratches, just bad
paint...
>
> -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:08:38
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Possible product
> Could I then buy it somewhere? Maybe
someone in Germany (Jim Matthews?)
> could buy some of those if there is
interest. The system has to be very
> straightforward though because I
cannot imagine calling Germany for tech
> support.
As long as you
can read German and are able to program it (visual interface
under windows)
then it isn't a problem at all. No support at all but books
in German are
available with applications.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:12:42
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: another injector question...
> I agree to solve the real
problem and not mask the symptoms, but I'm
curious
> why you think the
bypass is not recommended. As long as the FPR can
return
> enough
fuel to the tank to keep the fuel pressure set properly it
shouldn't
>
make any difference.
I agree for sure but with the upgraded pump runnign
at 12V at idle seems to
outflow the stock fuel pressure due to higher O2
readings during the
cycling. I haven't checked with the fuel pressure meter.
If the connections
and the relay are good I will never do the
bypass.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:49:52
-0800
From: Dean Benz <
dbenz@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S: Supra
Rotors? Was: Porterfield Rotors
Is the Supra rotor adaption documented
anywhere? I don't see it in the FAQ.
What all is
involved?
Thanks
John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> If you have access to a lathe, why not adapt the
Supra
> rotors and get the advantage of directional cooling?
> The
Supras are a lot less $$$$. I haven't purchased
> any in a while,
but the last ones were $57.93
> [43516-1430 front Left].
Dean
Benz
dbenz@usa.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:43:06
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Supra Rotors? Was: Porterfield Rotors
And let me tag on here
with:
If you already have Big Reds, what's involved in moving over to Supra
rotors?
Rich
At 11:49 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Is the Supra
rotor adaption documented anywhere? I don't see it in the FAQ.
>What all
is involved?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:30:06
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Information on transfer case
I saw this on another site and
thought I would post it
here also. it follows...
>To whom it may
concern;
I work for the Department of
Transportation and I am currently
reviewing
the complaints on the 3000GT
VR-4 and Stealth RT/TT.
I would like to ask you if
you could post a note saying that if
anybody
has/ha d any problems with
transfer cases leaking & locking up, to
please
file a comp laint at
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
I can't use complaints off of
the internet. I need them to be in
the
Database.
If you have any questions, or
if anybody wants to contact me, I've
created
this e-mail account
(
g_3000@hotmail.com) so that my account at
work
does not get
released.
I also want to clarify that I
am only interested in the AWD twin
turbo
models
(VR-4 and RTTT). I also need
the phone numbers of the people
filing
complaints so that I can get
in touch with
them.
Thank you for your time, and
I hope I can be of help to you.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:34:53
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FMIC
I think it is simple :
Air Flow (pressurized) =
Pressure Ratio * cfm (engine)
The engine cfm is only altered by rpm as
the volumetric efficiency can be
taken as a constant.
Now our engine at
6000 rpm has an air flow of 286 cfm. With 0.5 bars of
boost the air flow of
the total system is (1+.05) * 286 = 429 cfm.
To make it more interesting
let's boost up to 1.2 bars. The resulting cfm
the system flow is 629 cfm.
Therefore two turbos must be selected where one
flows 315cfm on a good
efficiency island.
The intercoolers as well as all bends in the piping
reduce the pressure
produced by the turbos as well as increase lag. This of
course will result
in less pressure reading in the intake manifold compared
to the compressor
outlet. The drop should not be larger than about 11% than
the max boost
desired.
> That FMIC is rated at 1280 cfm with a 1.5
psi drop at some
> unmentioned vehicle speed.
This is not correct
as the internal drag of the intercooler is determined by
its construction and
has nothing to do with speed. It is simply drawn onto
one sheet as it shows
the efficiency change by speed change. The internal
drag stays the same
!
> Look at the figure and draw a vertical
> line at the 3.0L
engine size mark, which also states "390 cfm", as it
> should. It is these
values for efficiency and pressure drop that
> potential buyers of Paul's
FMIC should consider. Not the rather less
> favorable values at 1000 cfm
(not even shown). For dual side mounts,
> IC characteristics for 1.5L
engines (~195 cfm) should be used.
The flow for a 3 liter engine is not
390 cfm as it is 286. At 10 psi it is
472cfm. Now our aim is to run 1.2 bars
at least what results in 629cfm.
Looking at the diagram this results in about
0.5 psi drop. what is around 3%
loss. With the many bendings in our IC piping
the final result will probably
be around 6% - fully acceptable. In fact the
core is an overkill. This
because a smaller core also has a different graph
and therefore has a higher
loss at the same air flow. But even if such a core
will cause 5% loss plus
the 3% of the piping the result is 8% what is still
acceptable. The turbo(s)
then must produce 8% more pressure to enable us to
see the desired boost in
the intake manifold. Of course this decreases the
efficiency of the
turbocharger.
But I have seen very small IC that
have less drop than the one in the
diagram. But the efficiency is then what
counts regarding the removal of
heat. With the turbo running in its best
efficiency field the selection of
the IC core must be done by calculating the
temperature drop to reach the
desired max temp at the desired boost level.
Big is not always better :-)
I for myself like this IC as it still works
with the stock crash bar - a
must for a daily driver. Now a thicker core but
less height would be the
solution as the stock fog lights on earlier cars do
not fit anymore as well
as the water tank in the bumper would be a problem.
... the search is still
going on.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch>
> I know I sound
like a broken record, but misperceptions concerning
> actual engine volume
flow are pervasive among turbo-car owners.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> To: "Jeff Lucius"
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
>
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Lucius"
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
>
> GT368 turbos do not "put out" any more volume flow than stock 9B
>
> turbos.All the 368s can do is flow denser air (more mass flow in
>
> other words). The DISPLACEMENT, RPM, and VE determine *volume* flow
>
> and the very maximum *volume* of air that can flow through our
>
engine
> > is about 400 cfm, period.
>
> Your own mass air
flow calculator shows the CFM requirements of our
> engine to be 667 cfm
at a pressure ratio of 2 and 332 cfm at a
> pressure ratio of 1. While I
understand that the displacement of the
> engine didn't change it seems
that the convention of using volume air
> flow or CFM, rather than the
term air density at a pressure ratio of
> 2, has been established,
period.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:31:39
-0500
From: Dave Miller <
dmille1@LEECA.ORG>
Subject: Team3S:
White Smoke Update - Oil in Turbo IC Pipe out
An update from my earlier
post below. Today I pulled the air tubing for both
turbos for both in
and out side. Front turbo was really clean. However, the
rear
turbo's in side had a different color to the plastic as if it had seen
oil
(I couldn't get to it to pull it). The out side that eventually connects
into the plenum had what would amount to at least 10 drops of oil stuck on
the
lip where the O Ring connects. Now,... here's my
question:
Does this mean it is definetly the rear turbo that's throwing
the oil? I
{think} this is correct, because if it were a valve seal,
it would simply pass
through the exhaust side of the turbo only and the IC
tubing side wouldn't
show any oil. Does this make logical sense
guys?
- - Are there other conclusive tests I can do here before I start
searching for
a used rear turbo or rebuild mine?
- - Best sources for
a used turbo or rebuild options?
Dave Miller
1991 Dodge Stealth RT
TT
Original Post
================
Hi all. I'm hoping some of
you will be willing to share your expertise with
> me. Driving today
and suddenly smoke begins to appear in my rear view
mirror.
> As
I drove further, it got worse until I seemed to provide quite a smoke
>
cloud! There is no smell of antifreeze, so I'm pretty sure its an
oil
> problem.
>
> The pattern is as follows:
>
>
- Heavy smoke at idle. At first, its light. After 10 - 15 seconds,
its
gets
> pretty thick.
>
> - Moderate smoke during
excelleration. The heavier the excelleration, the
> more smoke, but
still not a thick as at idle (or at least it doesn't appear
> so, but
perhaps because your moving?)
>
> - Slight to no smoke at constant
speed on the highway. (unless you gun it)
>
> I've looked
through the archives and so far, it seems like it could be one
of
>
several items:
>
> 1) EGR Valve defective (hoping
for)
> 2) Defective valve seals (trying to avoid)
> 3) Defective
turbo (Oh the Money!)
> 4) Defective
rings (Hope not, remote, but thought I'd
include)
>
> Can anyone share the best way to determine the
cause? Here are some initial
> thoughts I have, but I'm really
looking for a diagnostic procedure to
> determine the
cause.
>
> -- Is there a way to bypass the EGR valve for
diagnostics?
> -- If I find oil in the turbo intake pipes, what does this
indicate?
> -- If I pull the exhaust downpipe and only see smoke from one
side of the
> engine, this should tell me which side of the engine its
coming from, but is
> there any way to tell if its the valve seal or the
turbo?
>
> Thanks in advance everyone!
>
> Dave
Miller
> 1991 Dodge Stealth RT TT
Dave Miller
91 Dodge Stealth
RT TT
Dave Miller
Lorain County Distance Learning Consortium Project
Manager
(440) 324-5777 ext 195 Office
(440)
610-0782 Mobile
dmille1@leeca.org***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:40:41
-0800
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S:
removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/ SS?
Well, i've finally had
it. I want to replace all of the exhaust nuts
and bolts with stainless
hardware (front pre-cat to turbo, rear precat
to DP, cat bolts, etc).
The problem is that I have no idea how to get
the old bolts out of the
flanges. Anyone ever do this and if so, how
did you? Currently,
I don't have air tools, but I've got just about
everything else.
I
was thinking that after saturating the bolts in lube, i'd cut them off
with
a cutoff wheel then either drill through the center, progressively
larger
and larger until either it comes out completely, or I buy an
easy-out set
and use that. The issue, though, with an easyout is that
you've gotta
put extreme torque on the turbo flange (up front) and
pre-cat in the
rear. This sounds too stressful on the flange/turbo and
don't want to
either bend anything or break a bracket.
Any other ideas?
Hopefully, I'd like to avoid using a torch due to
proximity of other
goodies.
Thanks
Damon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:40:47
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: White Smoke Update - Oil in Turbo IC Pipe out
I have changed my
rear turbo, so many other things
going on I still haven't started my car to
see how
good a job I did as I'm making othe changes also and
still waiting
for parts. When my rear turbo went out
it put quite a lot of oil into my
intercoolers and the
IC pipes, including oil in the intake air side of
the
turbo.
This oil could have been from excess pressure with the
turbo
gone bad. Rebuilding turbos is around 300
dollars some less some more
depending on where you get
it done.
On anothe site 3si yesterday someone
had a rear turbo
in the box, never used for $250 I believe. I also
changed
the oil feed lines and did both turbos at the
same time, but the front didn't
look that bad. If you
get new turbos or 13G's as I did there is quite
a
price spread, so shop around. You can also rebuild
them youself with a
kit, I just didn't have the right
equipment to balance the turbo wheels. You
may even
find some used ones in good condition I think for
under 200, but
only if you trust you source, changing
them is a job that I wouldn't want to
do twice, back
to back.
Peter 92 TT Pearl white
stealth
Seattle
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:02:20
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: turbo
crankshafts
For them of youz what cares ---- The Crankshaft Saga, the
final chapter
After getting screwed by a 3SI.org member who sent me a
cast crank
and claimed it was out of a 94 turbo car I found a reconditioned
crank
from Top Line ---- price was $412 plus shipping and includes the
bearings.
I probably won't use the bearings as I want Cleivite and they sent
some
sort of house brand.
Some observations and facts about the Turbo
crank:
I explained my requirements to the tech guy at Top Line and he
told me to
request a low cut crank or one that is .010 under --- they sent me
a 20-30
or 20 under on the mains and 30 under on the rods --- damn !!! I
called
and bitched and the sent a 10-10 crank via 3 day express.
The
new crank is forged --- you can see the forging marks and that was
verified
by the guys doing the hardening. The forged crank has machined
counter
weights while the cast crank just has the pebbled appearance of
a cast iron.
I'm not sure when they went to the forged crank --- there are
changes in mid
1990, mid 1992 and mid 1994, my guess is that the
change came in mid
90.
The crank is undercut, meaning that the bearing surfaces are higher
than the
surrounding material --- a small radius cut is made around the
journal leaving
the bearing surface separated from the counter weights. I was
told that was
done to releive stress at those points on the crank. The crank
should not
lose any strength as long as you don't resurface below the
undercut. The 30
under crank they sent by mistake was indeed resurfaced to
the level of the
undercut so I would classify that crank as marginal,
especially for a heavily
modded engine.
Nobody seems to know what
Mitsu did to harden the crankshaft --- it does
not appear to be nitrided or
flame hardened although there are other methods
of accomplishing surface
hardening.
I'm having my crank hardened using a process called cool case
--- it's similar
to Ammonia Nitriding but produces a softer surface. The
crank place claims
that nitriding generates a surface that is too hard and
susceptible to cracking.
The price is $125 out in California --- that
includes treatment, straighting the
crank again [ it's heated to 900º or so]
and re-polishing the journals.
I plan on cryo treating my crank and block
--- A lot of the big boys do it and
swear by it so I thought I'd give it a
try. Data is hard to come by when it comes
to these type of
treatments.
I don't have any pictures at this point as my son-in-law has
my camera but I
hope to rectify that in the next
week.
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:49:40
-0600
From: RJM <
rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Suspension light blinking on 94 3000gt
Thanks Chuck, I had the
rubber cap off and disconnected the center connector
but it looked real
clean, but I'll take it off again and look closely where they
connect, I
don't know, now I noticed both mornings it didn't blink until I
started going
over about 85-90mph, I usually travel around 90mph to work and
back, then it
sits about 9 hrs., then I THOUGHT it would blink almost
immediately after
pulling out of the parking garage on the way home, but I may
be wrong, it may
wait until 90mph again, I am going to see if there is something
consistent,
but, like you say, I guess they are getting old and it doesn't
really matter
as they should both be replaced. I think I'll go stock again.
Thanks
for the help. Bob
"Willis, Charles E." wrote:
> You
can't tell whether the connection is good without removing the big
>
rubber cap (three nuts) which is called a dust cover. Sure there is
a
> harness connection outside the rubber cap, but the connection to the
top of
> the strut is UNDER the cap. With an indication of leakage on the
left, I
> would replace that strut, with or without a code. I'd
probably try to get
> the code 61 to disappear by cleaning and
reconnecting the connector to the
> top of the strut, but at 103K miles
with one strut already looking bad, it's
> reasonable to expect to replace
the other, too.
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: RJM [SMTP:rjmsmail@swbell.net]
> >
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 7:55 PM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suspension light blinking on
94 3000gt
> >
> > Well,
> > I managed to answer all
but 4.) and 5.) below: I have a 2nd gen. car by
> > the
shape
> > of the trapezoid (I didn't notice Chuck's details below) and
determined a
> > code 61.
> > But the right front shock looks
OK except the black "cap" (under the hood)
> > is a bit
> >
loose, but it has been loose for some time and wasn't all the way off.
>
> Connection
> > looks good. Guess the shock is
failing???? I don't understand because
> > the TOUR
> >
ride seemed good, it is the left driver's side shock that looks like it
>
> may be
> > leaking slightly. I wonder if I will
eventually ruin these new tires,
> > the only
> > difference
in the ride, now always in SPORT mode, is probably that the
> >
bottoming
> > out" sound I sometimes here is more frequent. ANY IDEAS
MUCH APPRECIATED.
> > 103,000
> > miles on original
struts (no shocks?). Thanks again. Bob
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:37:18
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Help me please, broke bleeder screw
Mark,
Welcome to the family, welcome to a '95 VR-4 (my car as well), and
welcome to
the wonderful world of winter driving. I had Blizzaks but
not LM but
rather the MZ-01 tires. As you say ... entirely too much fun
cruising
the highway at 70 mph and not worrying about that build-up of
snow between
the lanes ... just drift on over to the other lane. Man is
that fun
passing snow plows sometimes.
Anyway, the Russell Bleeders look
very similar to the Speed Bleeders.
The Speed Bleeders are $7 each and are
quite a bargain. They come with
the thread sealant already on the
threads so Teflon tape is not
required. They are not pipe threads but
are threaded to match the stock
threads. I just put some in my stock
calipers (which are off the car
right now) and they fit most perfectly and
I'm sure will hold up just
fine.
If you tried to put these
bleeders in the rear calipers of a second
gen (which is your '95 VR-4) then
they will not fit as Speed Bleeder
does not make them or at least the ones I
have leak brake fluid so I put
back in the stock ones. No biggie as the
rear brakes are bled maybe
once a year at a shop for the normal driver and
maybe three times a year
by a track racer.
Sounds like you
are well on your way. Enjoy and we'll look forward
to seeing you at
some Gatherings this year.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with Big Reds with
Speed Bleeders
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Frouhar
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:34
I did the same
thing 3 weeks ago. I had a seized driver side caliper
and
after
replacing it I was putting in speed bleeders in all the calipers
in
order to do
a full system bleed. I stripped the front PAX caliper
mainly due to
rusty threads
and partially due to bad design of "Earl's"
speed bleeders. I give the
Earl's speed
bleeders a thumbs down,
Russell bleeders are much better. I don't have
any experience
with
"Speed Bleeders".
I took my caliper to a local race shop (these guy are
top notch BTW) and
they tapped
the caliper for this special bushing +
Russell speed bleeder. The speed
bleeder is really
tiny compared to
the OEM one. The bushing has pipe threads. After
bolting up the
repaired
caliper I noticed is was seeping brake fluid. I ended up
taking it out
and putting it back
with some teflon tape. That solved
the problem, I've been checking the
brake fluid and it
looks like it's
holding up OK. This special pushing is a standard part
on certain
Willwood
racing brake calipers. I can find the part# for you if you
like.
>From what I gathered putting in a larger bleeder screw is not
an option
because the seat
size is different and it won't seal. So
the only option really is to go
with some sort
of pipe thread arrangement
to ensure a positive seal. The willwood
bushing that I'm
talking
about has it's own seat on the inside so you can use an off the
shelf
bleeder screw.
BTW this is my first post to Team3S so hello
everybody. I picked up a
black 95 VR4 about
3 months ago as a winter
driver/snowboard car. I've been lurking on this
list ever since trying
to
learn more about these cars. So far I've changed a pair of rear
axle
bearings. Performed
some dremel surgery to open the hood that
was stuck and recently did a
full front brake job
to cure some nasty
vibrations. I put in Porterfield R4S pads and ATE
Blue brake fluid. I
picked
up some Blizzak LM tires mounted on 17" rims for winter weather duty
and
I've been having entirely
too much fun with this car so far as VT
state troopers can attest to I'm
sure.
My other car is an 85' TransAm
which I've owned for 10 years now, it's
gone through
endless
changes. In it's present form it's setup for Open tracking with
13"
rotors, brake ducts,
racing seats, 5 point harness, 379 ci motor T56 6
speed, etc.
Anyway I'm on a couple of lists and you guys run a clean
show, glad to
be here.
-Mark Frouhar
95
VR4
85 TA 379 DFI T56
http://www.geocities.com/Legoland0***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:57:56
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/ SS?
> Well,
i've finally had it. I want to replace all of the
> exhaust nuts and
bolts with stainless hardware (front
> pre-cat to turbo, rear precat to
DP, cat bolts, etc).
> The problem is that I have no idea how to get the
old
> bolts out of the flanges. Anyone ever do this and if
>
so, how did you? Currently, I don't have air tools,
> but I've got
just about everything else.
Lube the heck out of the end of the bolt
that's stuck in whatever you are
trying to remove it from. Use a
penetrating oil. Then take two nuts and
screw one down onto the stud,
and then the second nut on top of the first.
Tighten the two nuts against
each other (first nut turn counterclockwise
against the second nut turning
clockwise). You should be able to screw the
stud out using an open-end
wrench on the first "lower" nut.
You might have to play with the amount
of torque you are putting between the
two nuts, but since you are removing
the studs anyway if you break one you
aren't any worse off than
before.
If the nuts don't work, try just clamping on a vice-grip really
tight and
turning out the stud with that.
Good luck on the studs on
the main cat though - those are usually on there
pretty solid, and rusted
just for good measure.
You'll want to replace them with studs again
wherever possible. I haven't
specifically looked for stainless studs,
but someone probably makes them.
Most auto parts stores have a selection of
studs - of course the ones you'll
need will be Metric-sized. Bring the
old ones along to match up the sizes -
they should have sizing rings to make
sure you get the right ones.
Hope that helps...
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:15:27
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/ SS?
Seems like if
you going to the trouble of removing and replacing the nuts
that attach the
precat to the turbo, it's only another 10 seconds to pull
the precat
out.
At that piont you can heat the flange up red hot, and the studs will
come
out easily with a vise grip
What problems are you having with
the nuts?
The stock lower precat nuts are heat treated and self locking.
Always
replace them with new ones and you shouldn't have a problem. I always
keep
a half dozen of them on hand. (part number MB059359)
As for the
nuts between the turbo and precat, try using exhaust manifold
nuts, they are
also heat treated and self locking. (Part number MD165879)
At 08:57 PM
3/14/02 -0600, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > Well, i've finally had
it. I want to replace all of the
> > exhaust nuts and bolts with
stainless hardware (front
> > pre-cat to turbo, rear precat to DP, cat
bolts, etc).
> > The problem is that I have no idea how to get the
old
> > bolts out of the flanges. Anyone ever do this and
if
> > so, how did you? Currently, I don't have air
tools,
> > but I've got just about everything else.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:16:36
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: o2 sensor bad, vpc bad, or normal?
I have a Jumptronix A/F meter.
In 2nd gear at 2000 rpm, it shows the o2
voltage to be cycling normally from
lean to rich. If I then go WOT, it
immediately reads 0.04v all the way
up to 3000 rpm, where the car takes off
better and the o2 numbers then go up
to normal WOT numbers. It does the
exact same thing in 3rd gear
(although up to about 3300). Is this normal
behavior? It seems to
me that this is running the car awfully lean over
this period. Would
this have anything to do with the VPC?
Another strange thing is that
sometimes during idle the car will stay rich
(0.94v) and not cycle as it
should (this is sometimes solved by blipping the
throttle, which starts it
cycling, although not always) ... while other
times it will cycle from rich
to lean normally. Is this related to the
above problem?
Would
these problems likely be an o2 sensor or a bad VPC? I
recently
installed new o2 sensors (but before I had the A/F gauge).
I
have a datalogger on the way, but it is not here yet.
I have VPC, SAFC
(old style), 15G's, 550's, walbro, full
exhaust
thanks,
Bill
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:52:35
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FMIC
Jim: Something else to consider..is you -can- have
too big of a
turbo..for good road racing.
A big lull..then a hard KICK
is the wrong picture of a powerband..an
evenly rising HP curve, with as flat
& broad of a torque curve is
idea...sudden rushes of power are
unsettling.
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002
tds@brightok.net wrote:
> > The
ability to spend my day at high RPM is one of the reasons I
> > talked
myself into the 368's ---- under race conditions I spend a
> > lot of
time near redline [ as a matter of fact I recommended that
> > method
to cure lifter tick --- It works for me ].
> >
> > I may have
to change my driving style or if it's too bad I'll have to
> > sell
them off and get some ball bearing turbos --- the design goal
> >
is 27# to redline [ preferably more than once ].
> >
>
> Jim Berry
> >
> > PS --- I may be bugging you for information when I get the
system
> >
ready, if you're willing.
> >
> > PPS --- do you have a cold
air inlet for the intake ?? maybe a scoop
>
> and
some kind of isolation box
>
>
.
> > ================================================
>
>
That would be the trick - keeping rpm up.
>
> The character of the
car/motor is changed - higher
> and narrower powerband with a larger
anemic zone
> on the bottom. Believe it or not - GT on the
PS
> does a good job of simulating this when the larger
> turbo
upgrade is added.
>
> I would be willing to give up some of the
high PSI
> capability (25+ to ?) at redline for quicker spoolup.
>
They hardly break a sweat at the levels I use them.
>
> 27+ at
redline is very ambitious. I can't run anywhere
> near that (safely)
with 100 octane and denatured alc injection.
>
> It's really not as
bad as I may be making it seem
> (on the street) but it does suffer at low
rpm and
> I really like low end torque that moves things along
>
"right now".
>
> I'll be glad to help in any way though I don't
consider
> myself an expert nor have all the answers.
>
>
I've been using a custom scoop built by using stock
> strut covers (2),
aluminum bracket to raise, bodywork etc.
> Pics are posted ...
>
> We've talked about an isolation box but have never have built
one.
>
> Dual VPC intakes with small (Black Panther) battery help
> with airpath though still not ideal. Bugs, sand etc
indicate
> plenty of air coming in ...
>
> - tds
>
http://www.brightok.net/~tds>
This message was sent using BrightNet MailMan.
>
http://www.Brightok.net/mailman/-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:29:42
+0000
From: "Andrei Kryjevski" <
abk_4@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: 35
W -> 55 W H3 in fog lights?
hello:
has anybody used 55 Watt H3
bulbs instead of 35 W stock ones in the stock
fog lights? it is 92 stealth
r/t. does it require any changes in the wiring?
thank
you.
andrei.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:42:59
-0800
From: Todd Schmalzried <
q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject:
Team3S: flywheel/clutch question
Hello All,
It took me 6 over
months, but I finally tore the transmission out ot the
VR-4 to replace the
clutch.
I am trying to find out if there is a way to inspect the flywheel
still
in the car.
Thanks
Todd S.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:33
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 35 W -> 55 W H3 in fog lights?
Yes..any wattage upgrarde
should coincide with a wiring upgrade.
Not everyone does..but ya
should.
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Andrei Kryjevski wrote:
>
hello:
>
> has anybody used 55 Watt H3 bulbs instead of 35 W stock
ones in the stock
> fog lights? it is 92 stealth r/t. does it require any
changes in the wiring?
>
> thank you.
>
>
andrei.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:48:00
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: flywheel/clutch question
Sure..look at it.
But..when
you replace clutches, you have to machine the flywheel...so its
comin off
anyway.
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Todd Schmalzried wrote:
> Hello
All,
>
> It took me 6 over months, but I finally tore the
transmission out ot the
> VR-4 to replace the clutch.
> I am trying
to find out if there is a way to inspect the flywheel still
> in the car.
>
> Thanks
> Todd S.
- ---
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:05:30
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
Yeah --- it may take some relearning but I figure that if them twin
turbo
Porsche boys can do it with two wheel drive I can learn how with
AWD.
Lag will be the big issue --- I can limit the power with the boost
controller
if I can live with the
lag.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Jim: Something else to consider..is you -can- have too big of a
>
turbo..for good road racing.
>
> A big lull..then a hard KICK is
the wrong picture of a powerband..an
> evenly rising HP curve, with as
flat & broad of a torque curve is
> idea...sudden rushes of power are
unsettling.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:27:08
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 5mm spacers
Especially for you, crazy track racers, check out the
Tein Pillow Ball
Mount Kit on the Dynamic Racing website. It allows to
change both camber
and caster.
Philip
At 11:38 PM 3/12/2002,
fastmax wrote:
>I have a camber gauge, if I get ambitious I'll try to
measure the camber
>with the wheel turned. For my next trick I'm going to
find out what
>Ackerman is and why I don't want any. I'd like to know more
about
>suspension setups but it seems like we have so little control over
it that
>it's not worth the
effort.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:36:22
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
tds@brightok.net>
> The
character of the car/motor is changed - higher
> and narrower powerband
with a larger anemic zone
> on the bottom. Believe it or not - GT on
the PS
> does a good job of simulating this when the larger
> turbo
upgrade is added.
Is it really that anemic at the bottom or is more that
it's just more savage
on the upper end --- eg. distorted perception of
reality.
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
27+ at redline is very ambitious. I can't run anywhere
> near that
(safely) with 100 octane and denatured alc injection.
The 27# will be
relegated to 118 leaded, rocket fuel or some
breakthrough in detonation
control [ propane ??? ]. That's short
blasts or maybe ¼ mile runs not for
road racing.
=====================================
> I'll be glad
to help in any way though I don't consider
> myself an expert nor have all
the answers.
Thanks ---
I'd just like to ask some questions of someone
who has already spent
the money breaking parts --- no sense in both of us
being broke ;-)
=========================================
> I've
been using a custom scoop built by using stock
> strut covers (2),
aluminum bracket to raise, bodywork etc.
> Pics are posted ...
I
went through a short experiment in underhood temps and a year or two
ago
found that at idle [ 80º day ] the under hood temps went up to about 130º
and
as soon as the car started to move they started dropping to about 90º. I
did
these measurements with 4 mil bead thermocouple at the air cleaner. Of
interest
I found that at WOT the temps rose rapidly, getting up to 125º and
still climbing
when I had to back off the throttle. I'd like to try the same
experiments on a
track someday to see how hot the intake charge gets. Taking
in air that's
50º cooler has to be a big benefit in the control of
detonation. I wish I had the
time and money to do a proper test with 5 or 6
recording
thermocouples.
============================================
> Dual
VPC intakes with small (Black Panther) battery help
> with airpath though
still not ideal. Bugs, sand etc indicate
> plenty of air coming in
...
A small scoop seems the most pratical although I'm looking at
the area
on the firewall where the fuel pump resistor is located ---- with
the battery
in the back I could punch a hole in the fire wall into the area
in front of the
windshield where they pick up the air for the
cabin.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:45:07
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
5mm spacers
Crazy track racers --- sheesh --- we happen to be the chosen
ones !!
I have the Ground Control coil overs with the GC camber and
caster
plates and GAB struts so I can adjust as much as is reasonable.
The
Tien setup seems nicer the GC unit, if I were to start over I
think
I'd go with the Tien's. One thing I didn't like, but it may have
changed,
was the lack of spring rates to choose from. With the Eibachs I
have
an almost unlimited
choice.
Jim
Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
> Especially
for you, crazy track racers, check out the Tein Pillow Ball
> Mount Kit
on the Dynamic Racing website. It allows to change both camber
> and
caster.
>
> Philip
>
> At 11:38 PM 3/12/2002, fastmax
wrote:
> >I have a camber gauge, if I get ambitious I'll try to measure
the camber
> >with the wheel turned. For my next trick I'm going to
find out what
> >Ackerman is and why I don't want any. I'd like to know
more about
> >suspension setups but it seems like we have so little
control over it that
> >it's not worth the effort.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:51:16
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: FMIC
Jim,
You talking about poking a hole in
the firewall from the cabin? That
is what the term "firewall" means ...
in the case of an engine fire the
cabin is safe from flames. No proper
tech inspection will let you pass
with a hole in your firewall. I
assume you are going to properly plug
it with some Nomex or braided stainless
steel "flame retardant" goop or
something like that? Right?
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Friday,
March 15, 2002 00:36
A small scoop seems the most pratical although
I'm looking at the area
on the firewall where the fuel pump resistor is
located ---- with the
battery in the back I could punch a hole in the fire
wall into the area
in front of the windshield where they pick up the air for
the cabin.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:26:11
US/Central
From:
tds@brightok.netSubject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
> ----- Original Message -----
> Is it really that anemic
at the bottom or is more that it's just more savage
> on the upper end ---
eg. distorted perception of reality.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's
normal for a 3.1 L motor with 8.5 compression and a sewer pipe
for an exhaust
trying to move a heavy car. The difference
this time around is the
extra wait time versus the excellent
spoolup of the previous 15g setup.
Power hits very hard -
could be described as violent - not so linear
now. There is
now a larger area (longer rpm range) at low rpm
where
the hamsters aren't running hard enough.
When driving at
low rpm in 2nd+
gear and I decide I want to accelerate quickly, I need
to
allow at least a full second (or more) before anything
major occurs.
It's just plain ol' lag but it is significantly
more pronounced than the
15s. The character of the car has
changed from what it was. It
feels like a car with *big*
turbos whereas before, the turbos were hardly
noticable.
My 15g setup felt a lot like a V8 pushrod motor - it
even
ran out of steam on top - just like my V8. Now - it feels
like
a NA V6 (small V6) or large 4 banger until > ~3200+ rpm.
1st gear - not so
bad since it is so short (high numerically)
but 2nd gear plus
......
If you're running the 15gs now - you will see what I
mean.
I'll freely admit to being a perfectionist and highly
critical
of shortcomings - (that's why we mod like mad right?!) but
if I
had it to do again, I would find a way to obtain turbos
sized larger than the
15g but smaller than the 368.
I think I will stick with what I have and
accept the
challenge to improve more to my liking. Dropping
weight
has helped, further tuning would most likely help with
emphasis on
low rpm/preboost range.
It's not bad for the street but I have had to
adjust my
driving style and be sure to anticipate a longer delay
before
the power surge actually occurs. Before - there was
so little delay,
there was not much to wait on - easier to
concentrate on the task at
hand.
I still believe that if I was trying to accelerate hard and
fast
out of lots of slow speed corners, it would be a problem. I
could see a
lot of time lost (unless it were made up afterward/
elsewhere) The
biggest problem area for me has been low
rpm in 2nd gear where my speed is
too fast to jam it into
1st but I want to go "right now". It doesn't -
at least not
near as quickly as I would like. Of course 3rd+ can be
the
same way at low rpm but if need be, I can drop a gear and it
goes like
made - spools right up. In order to have big
power at the ready, I have
to keep the revs up a lot more
than before (15gs). The car also has a
tendancy to feel
as if it is lugging at the same speeds it didn't
before.
For example - now, it's not too crazy about 40mph in
4th
gear. If I want to speed up - even moderately - there's
nobody
home - at least no time soon. Before - it didn't
matter - moderate and
then good power was available right
off. Now I often use 3rd at 40 mph
- better power available
and quicker - closer to the spoolup rpm
range.
Maybe if you just rev the dog out of it all
the time you'll be
fine? There's certainly no
problem from gear to gear when hitting
redline or
close to it. A very slow shift will kill some
momentum
but that's to be expected. Just pretend
it's a VTEC with an 8000 rpm
redline and nothing
there for the first ~3500 rpm?! :)
> I'd just
like to ask some questions of someone who has already spent
> the money
breaking parts --- no sense in both of us being broke ;-)
>
=========================================
Don't run 23 PSI on 91 octane
pump gas without
alc/water injection and no datalogger!
(it was fast for a
while!)
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tdsThis
message was sent using BrightNet MailMan.
http://www.Brightok.net/mailman/***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:19:47
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: 6 speed
conversion
Hi,
I'm doing a six speed conversion and the clutch
hydralics doesn't look the same on the new 6 speed gear box as it did on my old
5 speed. The 6 speed has a few "junktion blocks" and air valves. What function
do they have? Do I need them or shall I just mount the clutch hydralics like it
was before?
Check this picture for detailed look.
http://www.3000gt.nu/6Speed/images/PA140145.JPG/Mikael
Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:26:52
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S:
Transfercase for 6 speed
How much stronger is the cast iron gen 3
transfercase compared to a first gen aluminium TC?
Will it brake in the
housing/case as my previos aluminium ones has done? (I split them in two so one
half falls to the ground!)
Has anyone had one of these improved TC's to
fail?
/Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:58:44
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: removing exhaust bolts/nuts and replacing w/
SS?
Yo Damon,
Please try soaking all nuts & bolts with a
penetrating
oil. All of mine came out the first time.
I got
impatient the last time & didn't soak all of
them for a long enough
time. The foremost bolt on the
front turbo was stubborn so I used my
impact wrench
and it promptly broke off. The remaining portion
in
the turbo flange took about 2 hours to remove using a
Bridgeport
milling machine $$$$$$$$$. And using an
easy-out tool, but eventually
having to hand remove
bolt remnants and then retapping to the same
size.
Think $$$$ before trying to intentionally cut them off
and
drilling the remainder out.
I'd never try to use a hand drill cause you
just can't
control it well enough to NOT damage the threads.
The
metal is hard too.
The Mitsu nuts & bolts are not just
ordinary material.
Be patient & good luck,
John
- --- Damon
Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
wrote:
> Well, i've finally had it. I want to replace all of
>
the exhaust nuts
> and bolts with stainless hardware (front pre-cat
to
> turbo, rear precat
> to DP, cat bolts, etc). The problem
is that I have
> no idea how to get
> the old bolts out of the
flanges. Anyone ever do
> this and if so, how
> did
you? Currently, I don't have air tools, but
> I've got just about
> everything else.
>
> I was thinking that after saturating
the bolts in
> lube, i'd cut them off
> with a cutoff wheel then
either drill through the
> center, progressively
> larger and
larger until either it comes out
> completely, or I buy an
>
easy-out set and use that. The issue, though, with
> an easyout is
that
> you've gotta put extreme torque on the turbo flange
> (up
front) and
> pre-cat in the rear. This sounds too stressful
on
> the flange/turbo and
> don't want to either bend anything or
break a
> bracket.
>
> Any other ideas? Hopefully, I'd
like to avoid using
> a torch due to
> proximity of other
goodies.
>
> Thanks
> Damon
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:29:28
+0100
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: Throttle
body, how big?
(Posted this once before but didn't get any
answers...)
Hi,
I will have a new intake manifold custom made and
I will also buy a new throttle body.
Now I wonder how big TB shall I get?
What is too small and when is it too big?
The intercooler pipes are 3" so
I guess that's the smallest it should be. Will I gain anything with a TB that is
bigger than the IC pipe?
Also, if you know where to buy throttle bodies
please send me contact information (doesn'n need to be made for 3000gt since
everything is custom built anyway.)
Regards,
Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:16:08
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: o2 sensor bad, vpc bad, or normal?
>I have a Jumptronix
A/F meter. In 2nd gear at 2000 rpm, it shows the o2
>voltage to be cycling
normally from lean to rich. If I then go WOT, it
>immediately reads
0.04v all the way up to 3000 rpm, where the car takes off
>better and the
o2 numbers then go up to normal WOT numbers. It does the
>exact same
thing in 3rd gear (although up to about 3300). Is this
normal
>behavior? It seems to me that this is running the car
awfully lean over
>this period. Would this have anything to do with
the VPC?
Yes, known tuning problem with the VPC
>Another
strange thing is that sometimes during idle the car will stay
rich
>(0.94v) and not cycle as it should (this is sometimes solved by
blipping the
>throttle, which starts it cycling, although not always) ...
while other
>times it will cycle from rich to lean normally. Is this
related to the
>above problem?
Yes, can be solved with a second gen
S-AFC
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:19:06
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FMIC
The access hole would not go into the cabin --- there is a
chamber
under the black plastic grates in front of the windshield that
provide
air for he heating and A/C --- I could tap into that and route cool
air
to the intake.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
>
Jim,
>
> You talking about poking a hole in the
firewall from the cabin? That
> is what the term "firewall" means
... in the case of an engine fire the
> cabin is safe from flames.
No proper tech inspection will let you pass
> with a hole in your
firewall. I assume you are going to properly plug
> it with some
Nomex or braided stainless steel "flame retardant" goop or
> something
like that? Right?
>
> --Flash!
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: fastmax
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002
00:36
>
> A small scoop seems the most pratical although I'm
looking at the area
> on the firewall where the fuel pump resistor is
located ---- with the
> battery in the back I could punch a hole in the
fire wall into the area
> in front of the windshield where they pick up
the air for the cabin.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#783
***************************************
