Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, March 7
2002 Volume 01 : Number
774
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
The way I've been
reading this thread is that the HP required to turn the
driveline is fixed
at a specific RPM and gear. Therefore, at any RPM, the
driveline
losses will remain the same...correct? Let say the losses were
25% on
a 300hp car at 6000rpm 3rd(5spd)= 75hp. Now you bump the same car to
600hp, the losses would still be 75hp, but this time only 12.5% losses at
the same RPM and same gear. So the percentage does not remain the
same, but
the hp loss does.
So, can we say that at a given RPM the
losses are the same regardless of HP
above the baseline.
I like
Jack's example of turning the driveline by hand. Now I don't know
Jack
personally, but lets assume that he is not Arnold Schwarzenegger. Do
you think that the amount of effort to turn the driveline would increase
just because some strong man was turning the driveline? I don't think
so...the required energy would remain the same, but the percent of the
potential energy would drop. i.e, Jack may work up a sweat, but Arnold
may
not even increase his heart rate.
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
>From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
>To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Team3S: Re: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002
07:46:55 -0600
>
>drivetrain loss has to be on some form of
percentage basis.
>Guarantee: I can turn my whole drivetrain with a
wrench connected to the
>transaxle input shaft.
>I won't turn it
FAST...but it will rotate all the wheels.
>I also guarantee I'm not making
75 horsepower while I'm doing it!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:48:10
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
So being that we are
all MIT undergrads I think it is safe to say
that the drive line..not the
actaul part gents but the whole unit,
has a curve that grows to a specific
peak and stands there....My
crank is rated 220 from the factory...given an
absolute nominal and
just take it for what it is....my wheel HP is 168.8HP I
was told
20-25% on front wheel drive cars is a good average. I have 110k
on
the car and highly doubt it has the kick it did when it rolled off
the
floor. Obviously, 4wd will be higher than 20-25....My curves with
torque and
hp seemed to climb rather even so I would assume
(ass-u-me) that this formula
follows the curve.....it's that extra
500 hp I wish I could turn on to prove
out the peak theory.
- ---- Original Message ----
From:
stealth_tt@hotmail.comTo:
xwing@wi.rr.com,
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002
09:38:38 -0600
>The way I've been reading this thread is that the HP
required to
>turn the
>driveline is fixed at a specific RPM and
gear. Therefore, at any
>RPM, the
>driveline losses will
remain the same...correct? Let say the losses
>were
>25% on
a 300hp car at 6000rpm 3rd(5spd)= 75hp. Now you bump the
>same car
to
>600hp, the losses would still be 75hp, but this time only 12.5%
>losses at
>the same RPM and same gear. So the percentage
does not remain the
>same, but
>the hp loss
does.
>
>So, can we say that at a given RPM the losses are the same
>regardless of HP
>above the baseline.
>
>I like
Jack's example of turning the driveline by hand. Now I don't
>know
>Jack personally, but lets assume that he is not Arnold
>Schwarzenegger. Do
>you think that the amount of effort to
turn the driveline would
>increase
>just because some strong man
was turning the driveline? I don't
>think
>so...the required
energy would remain the same, but the percent of
>the
>potential
energy would drop. i.e, Jack may work up a sweat, but
>Arnold may
>not even increase his heart rate.
>
>Mark
Wendlandt
>'91RT/TT
>
>>From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
>>To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>>Subject:
Team3S: Re: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
>>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002
07:46:55 -0600
>>
>>drivetrain loss has to be on some form of
percentage basis.
>>Guarantee: I can turn my whole drivetrain
with a wrench connected
>to the
>>transaxle input
shaft.
>>I won't turn it FAST...but it will rotate all the
wheels.
>>I also guarantee I'm not making 75 horsepower while I'm doing
it!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:59:08
-0800
From: "Chris Winkley" <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Trunk mounted battery
Doug...
Thanks, but the spare
tire has been gone (along with the rear seats, carpeting, etc.) for four years
since I started working on my 11 second goal. The issue is finding a flat
surface that's 9" X 12" with access from the underside so lockwashers and nuts
can be installed to hold down the box.
For flats, I have a cell phone and
AAA.
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From:
dakken [mailto:dougusmagnus@attbi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:04
PM
To: Chris Winkley;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Trunk mounted battery
> Sooooo, I bought a Optima Red Top
this last weekend...900 amps and only
$115.00!!!
>
> Now the
dilemma. I thought it would be a great idea to go all the way so I
bought a
NHRA rated Moroso polyethylene airtight box and battery kill
switch. BUT, I
cannot locate a space anywhere in the trunk where I can
install the box. I
can squeeze the battery itself into the right rear
corner, and can drill one
hole to the outside of the frame and one to the
inside (over the gas tank)
for the steel strap but can't come up with a
solution for the box as it's
approximately two inches larger all the way
around. Has anyone successfully
installed a sealed box? If so, where? I'm
thinking I may resort to having a
stainless steel tray fabricated, screw it
to the floor pan, and use the strap
with two strap bolts to hold it in the
tray should I decide to try driving
upside down. Suggestions???
Have you considered taking out your spare
tire? Many of my friends that
went crazy with their car stereos removed
their spare tires for the extra
room. Some of them just have a can of
tire sealer in their trunk just in
case.
Doug
92 Stealth RT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:16:10
-0500
From: Steve Lasher <
s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Sorry for the late response. Like Erik
said, I have a 92 VR-4 which I
have upgraded to the Big Reds. First of
all, Brad's Big Red kit will
bolt up to either the 1st gen or the 2nd
gen. All mounting points and
procedures are the same. Someone
said something about changing the
spindle or hub, but that's incorrect.
The only differences between the
1st & 2nd gen brake systems are on the
rotor and caliper themselves.
The 2nd gen rotors are about an inch or so
larger in diameter. The
calipers are identical except the mounting arms
are about half an inch
longer to accomodate the larger rotors - and they
changed the brake line
fitting, so you can't swap brake lines from gen to
gen. To answer your
questions:
1) Brad's kit is designed to use
the stock 2nd gen rotor. Brad designed
the mounting bracket so that the
top of the Big Red pads line up with
the outside diameter of the rotor.
The drawback to this setup is that
since the Big Red pad is taller than the
stock pad, there is about an
eighth of an inch "overhang" on the inner
diameter of the rotor contact
patch. However, I have used my original stock
1st gen rotors with the
big reds (on the street only, of course). The
only difference is that
the pad overhang is on the outer diameter, instead of
the inner. More
about this overhang later.
2) There are 2
different types of stock 17" VR-4 wheels. The 91-93, and
the 94.
See the FAQ page, "Stock & Optional Wheels '91-'99" section
for
pics. My stock 92 17" wheels did not fit. It was close enough
so that
with the BR's mounted, the wheel would spin with no interference,
but
when I turned or braked, it would rub the caliper (I lost some
red
paint,
but didn't damage the caliper - talk about close!). The
stock 1994 VR-4
17" wheels do fit, as will any of the 18" wheels. Someone has
said the
stock 17" SL wheels from 97-99 will fit, but I don't know for
sure. I
don't know about the 94-96 Stealth TT 17's either. The
91-93 Stealth TT
17's will not fit.
Overall, I'm not sure the Big Red
kit with the stock rotors is the best
place to start. The pad overhang
causes a few problems. First it makes
it harder to remove the pad, but
that can be eliminated by cutting off
the excess pad material before you put
them on. Of course, you lose a
small bit of contact area (which is one
of the benefits of the big red
to start with). Also, some folks at the
track have said the overhang
may interfere with cooling the rotor since it's
right by
the rotor's cooling vanes. Not sure about that, but cooling is
the main
problem with the stock brakes. I believe Brad has a custom 2
piece
rotor that eliminates the overhang problem, but it requires a
different
mounting bracket. I'm not sure how that affects wheel
clearance - Brad,
can you help out here?
Personally, I thik the best
way to start out, would be to upgrade to
stock 2nd gen calipers, use a stock
replacement 2 piece rotor
(directionally veined), use Pagid Orange Pads,
Motul fluid and steel
lines. Roger Gerl origianlly had this setup in a
kit from Bremsa, but
I'm not sure about current availability.
- -Steve
Lasher
'92 VR-4
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:11:16 -0800
>
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
> Subject:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
>
> I have a '91 VR4 and in Dec/Jan I
replaced the front rotors with
> Porterfield rotors from Geoff at
Speedtoys.com. I also put on
Porterfield
> R4S front pads and replace
all the brake lines with SS lines (also
from
> Goeff, built by
Porterfield). My new brake fluid is ATE Super Blue
Racing.
>
>
I'm thinking ahead 8 to 12 months and considering adding Big
Red
calipers
> as well.
>
> Thus, I have a few
questions.
>
> (1) I'm wondering if the new rotors I have are
compatible with the big
reds
> or do I need a different rotor. I got
the Porterfield rotors with cryo
> treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ
it looks like there are options to
have
> single piece rotors and 2
piece rotors.
>
> (2) I'm curious as to whether the Big Reds fit
with stock VR4 17"
wheels. A
> friend with a Stealth had to go to 18"
wheels for the clearance. I'm
> thinking that there may be a wheel
difference between the Stealth and
> 3000GT VR4 and that the stock 17" VR4
wheels might work with the big
reds.
>
> I'm wondering if there
are any comments on the need for wheel
upgrades. I'm
> about ready to
get new tires and if I may need to upgrade wheels I'm
> thinking that it
may be a good idea to upsize the wheels before
getting new
>
tires.
>
> Thanks for any info you can provide toward me doing a
future brake
upgrade.
>
> -
--------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:23:55
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: What is this?
VIN: JB3XD54BXNY038003
Year/Make/Model: 1992
DODGE STEALTH ES
Body Style: Hatchback 2 DR
Engine Type: 3.0L V6 SMPI
DOHC 24V
Manufactured In: JAPAN
Could one of the experts tell me if
this car is a California model or
not...It is located in California but was
purchased at auction. It
may be a Federal model without the goofy front
pipe
TIA
bobk.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:37:38
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What
is this?
CAPS says it's a Cali car.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991
Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of ek2mfg
Sent: Wednesday, March
06, 2002 11:24 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: What is this?
VIN: JB3XD54BXNY038003
Year/Make/Model: 1992
DODGE STEALTH ES
Body Style: Hatchback 2 DR
Engine Type: 3.0L V6 SMPI
DOHC 24V
Manufactured In: JAPAN
Could one of the experts tell me if
this car is a California model or
not...It is located in California but was
purchased at auction. It
may be a Federal model without the goofy front
pipe
TIA
bobk.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
A fellow 3ser with a spyder
has his car in to get a new transmission due
to the normal problems with
gretag. Anyway, he told me that his
dealership mentioned to him that
Mitsubishi is considering recalling ALL
Vr-4's due to the transmission.
Anyone else heard of this? I assume
that would mean that they have a
brand new transmission or upgraded
parts for it. I thought I would
check with everyone. later
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:59:22
+0900
From: "Mike Stromberg" <
bakerboy21@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I'm station in Japan
and have a '92 Mitsu GTO VR-4, already put full
suspension, intake and
exhaust and a few other things. Does anyone know
what mods need to be
done to Import it? Put all this money into it and I'd
like to know if
it's worth bring back to the US. What mods and about
how
much?
Thanks for all the good info I've recieved so far, you guys are
great, I
learn more about my car everyday!!
Mike
US Air
Force
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:06:03
-0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: The easiest way to figure HP w/o drivetrain loss
Since everyone I
know speaks to me in terms of thier cars HP at the flywheel
(because it is
so much more) I was looking for an easy way to calculate my
HP and here is
what I came up with. I read that 20 extra HP = .20 seconds
off your ET. If I
know for a fact my car comes from the factory w/ 300HP (at
the flywheel 92
VR4) and runs a 13.55 ET (driven correctly) if I go to the
track and pull
off a 12.55 ET I must have 100 extra HP 20 x 5 =100. And
every .20 I shave
off after that just add 20 to your HP rating.
Dose this sound
correct?
Thanks,
Tom
92 VR4
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:29
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Hi Steve,
Many of the Porsche guys/gals
that upgrade their 944
or 911 with the Big Reds just use a file on
the
calipers until they have enough clearance and then
repaint the
area.
As we found out, your stock 92 17" wheels will not fit
over my
directional Supra rotors/Big Reds. Neither
will my stock 93 17" Stealth
TT wheels. However I
have one stock 17" chrome Mitsu rim that does
clear.
Your suggestion about a 2 piece directionally veined
rotor is
great.
Now if I can only get that 993 32x322 Porsche 2
piece
rotor fitted to my TT..... or the 996 34x330
WOW!
See you at Road Atlanta in the Fall.
Be of good
cheer,
John
- --- Steve Lasher <
s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> pics. My stock 92 17" wheels did not fit. It
was
> close enough so that with the BR's mounted, the
wheel would spin
with no interference, but
> when I turned or braked, it would rub the
caliper (I
> lost some red paint, but didn't damage the caliper -
talk
about close!).
>
> Overall, I'm not sure the Big Red kit with
the stock
> rotors is the best place to start. The pad
overhang
> Of course, you lose a small bit of contact area
(which
is one of the benefits of the big red
> to start with BUT
> COOLING
is the main
> problem with the stock brakes. I believe Brad has
a
> custom 2 piece
> rotor that eliminates the overhang
problem
>
> 2 piece rotor
> (directionally veined), use
Pagid Orange Pads, Motul
> fluid and steel
> lines. Roger Gerl
origianlly had this setup in a
> kit from Bremsa, but
> I'm not sure
about current availability.
> -Steve Lasher
> '92 VR-4
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:11:16 -0800
> > From:
Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
> > Subject:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
> >
> > I have a '91 VR4 and in
Dec/Jan I replaced the
> >
> > I'm thinking ahead 8 to 12
months and considering
> > adding Big Red calipers as well.
>
>
> > Thus, I have a few questions.
-
------------------------
> > Michael A. Gerhard
1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
> Pearl White
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:27:39
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
When i left Japan in
89, i considered bringing my Skyline with me, but they
told me "if it can't
be brought up to DOT standards, it will be scrapped"
Needless to say, i sold
it instead. To my knowledge, DOT standards are
things like glass, lights,
ect. You may also have to convert it to US
emissions. You are in good shape
because there is a US counterpart to get
parts from (3000GT). I was not so
lucky, there is no US version of a
Skyline. Bottom line is, if you are
willing to spend 4-5 grand, bring it on
over, it will probably be the only
RH drive GTO in the country.
Wayne
At 01:59 AM 3/7/02 +0900, Mike
Stromberg wrote:
>I'm station in Japan and have a '92 Mitsu GTO VR-4,
already put full
>suspension, intake and exhaust and a few other
things. Does anyone know
>what mods need to be done to Import
it? Put all this money into it and I'd
>like to know if it's worth
bring back to the US. What mods and about
how
>much?
>Thanks for all the good info I've recieved so far, you
guys are great, I
>learn more about my car
everyday!!
>Mike
>US Air Force
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:35:14
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Run high-impedance injectors off the low-impedance dr iver
signal?
> (uh, impedance is for *AC* circuits)
Impedance is
applicable to DC as well, it's just not as interesting.
For DC
circuits:
Inductors have an impedance of 0 (zero), capacitors have an
impedance of
infinity (open circuit), and resistors have an impedance equal
to their
resistance (R).
If anyone cares how one derives the
above...
- -------------------------------------------------
Z =
impedance
R = resistance
w = angular frequency of AC supply
j = square
root of -1 ("i" for non-EE-types)
L = inductance of inductor
C =
capacitance of capacitor
Resistor: Z(ohms) = R
Capacitor: Z(ohms) =
1/jwC
Inductor: Z(ohms) = jwL
Plug in 0 (zero) for "w" in the above
since the frequency of a DC supply is
zero, and you get infinity for the
capacitor and zero for the inductor.
- --Erik
first time I've used
that since college :-)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:51:06
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: FW: Team3S: US
Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I've done quite a lot of research
on this while studying up on Skyline
GTRs. I'm assuming your car is
right hand drive? If so, you're going to
have a real problem bringing
it over and making it legal. Generally the
NHTSA will allow you to
import a car with little hassle if there was a
"substantially similar" US
model produced. Problem is, they don't consider
RHD cars to be
substantially similar.
You might be able to get ahold of a US Spec dash
and other parts to change
it over to LHD, but that's probably more trouble
than it's worth. There may
be some loophole you can use being military
personnel, but I don't think
there is.
Sadly, your best bet would
probably be to return it to stock, sell it and
bring the mods over and put
them on a US car. It's such a shame that our
government has to be so
anal about cars like this when there are far less
safe "compliant" examples
of US cars on our roads. Good luck.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth
ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Mike Stromberg
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:59 AM
To: team3S
Subject: Team3S: US Military
Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I'm station in Japan and have a '92 Mitsu
GTO VR-4, already put full
suspension, intake and exhaust and a few other
things. Does anyone know
what mods need to be done to Import it?
Put all this money into it and I'd
like to know if it's worth bring
back to the US. What mods and about how
much?
Thanks for all the
good info I've recieved so far, you guys are great, I
learn more about my car
everyday!!
Mike
US Air Force
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:56:35
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
Mike..give it a
year and at least double your investment into the car..and
it can be
done.
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mike Stromberg wrote:
> I'm station
in Japan and have a '92 Mitsu GTO VR-4, already put full
> suspension,
intake and exhaust and a few other things. Does anyone know
> what
mods need to be done to Import it? Put all this money into it and
I'd
> like to know if it's worth bring back to the US. What
mods and about how
> much?
> Thanks for all the good info I've
recieved so far, you guys are great, I
> learn more about my car
everyday!!
> Mike
> US Air Force
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:57:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: The easiest way to figure HP w/o drivetrain loss
How
about..who cares?
You dont measure voltage drop from the power
company..then bitch you
should be getting more do you?
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:58:47
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
If the RHD hasnt
already been crash tested & Certified..you can flat
forget it ever being
here and street legal.
The Gov closed the door on RHD certifications last
November I think.
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Wayne wrote:
> When i
left Japan in 89, i considered bringing my Skyline with me, but they
>
told me "if it can't be brought up to DOT standards, it will be scrapped"
> Needless to say, i sold it instead. To my knowledge, DOT standards are
> things like glass, lights, ect. You may also have to convert it to US
> emissions. You are in good shape because there is a US counterpart to
get
> parts from (3000GT). I was not so lucky, there is no US version of
a
> Skyline. Bottom line is, if you are willing to spend 4-5 grand, bring
it on
> over, it will probably be the only RH drive GTO in the
country.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> At 01:59 AM 3/7/02
+0900, Mike Stromberg wrote:
> >I'm station in Japan and have a '92
Mitsu GTO VR-4, already put full
> >suspension, intake and exhaust and
a few other things. Does anyone know
> >what mods need to be done
to Import it? Put all this money into it and I'd
> >like to know
if it's worth bring back to the US. What mods and about how
>
>much?
> >Thanks for all the good info I've recieved so far, you
guys are great, I
> >learn more about my car everyday!!
>
>Mike
> >US Air Force
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:07:56
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: The easiest way to figure HP w/o drivetrain loss
> How
about..who cares?
But the bigger number (engine hp) always "sounds"
better... and you need to
have the biggest, um..., number to be
respected, right?
On a more serious note, manufacturers rarely publish
wheel HP - they always
publish the crank HP number (see above
statement). Thus, when comparing
cars, it's easier to talk about crank
hp, since not many people dyno their
cars.
This, in addition to
some other things, makes me question the whole idea of
comparing hp numbers
(wheel or engine) at all, since the number often quoted
only refers to the
peak hp, and doesn't account any of the other
characteristics of the power
curve. An S2000 and a '99 M3 both have 240hp
at the crank from the
factory - someone wanna tell me they'll have the same
1/4 mile times if the
S2000 has to carry enough ballast to have the same
curb weight?
I wonder why someone doesn't come up with a number that represents the
area
under the torque curve from say, 2000RPM to redline and use that number
to
compare cars...
- --Erik
BTW, someone told me the other day
that VTEC horses are actually miniature
ponies and that that's why 240hp in
an S2000 pales in comparison to 240hp in
an M3. Yes, I know it's
untrue, but it's amusing.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:27:49
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Humbled by a Viper
Many of the more modified 11 & 12 sec cars
VR-4's & RT/TT's will beat the
Vipers.
You'll need about 500 HP and
good driving skills. The key is to be ready.
Turbos need to spool in lower
gears to be ready to rock. I had one race off a
light with a Viper. My car
looked almost stock 91 VR-4, but with about 600HP.
I wish I had a photo of
his face in the rearview :) BTW, It was my daily
driver. 118,000 miles, 35
miles one way to work, never a reliability problem.
Let me see a Viper do
that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:59:06
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
The easiest way to figure HP w/o drivetrain loss
That would be true if
there were no other variables ---- the reality of the
situation is that there
are many other variables. Aerodynamic forces,
temperature, humidity,
traction, driver variations etc.
etc.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:06 AM
Subject: Team3S: The easiest way to figure
HP w/o drivetrain loss
> Since everyone I know speaks to me in terms
of thier cars HP at the flywheel
> (because it is so much more) I was
looking for an easy way to calculate my
> HP and here is what I came up
with. I read that 20 extra HP = .20 seconds
> off your ET. If I know for
a fact my car comes from the factory w/ 300HP (at
> the flywheel 92 VR4)
and runs a 13.55 ET (driven correctly) if I go to the
> track and pull
off a 12.55 ET I must have 100 extra HP 20 x 5 =100. And
> every .20 I
shave off after that just add 20 to your HP rating.
>
> Does this
sound correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 92 VR4
>
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:13:02
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I don't see the
problem.
When I worked with USAF officers at Patrick AFB (near Cape
Canaveral), they told lots of stories about importing cars in the bellies of
C5As. Guys would bring over MGs, Ferraris, and all kinds of gray market cars,
unload them out on the tarmac, and drive them off the base.
Then, those
cars would simply "become" another car. For example, John Buffum of Pro Rally
fame brought in a works Escort back in the 1970s by driving it in from Canada.
Next thing you know, it was titled as a 1969 English Ford. So all you gotta do
is fly it over, drive it off the base, go buy a wrecked or clapped-out 92
3000GT, transfer all the ID plates, and you are home free.
\
Puhleeeze...don't tell me this hasn't been done before.
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:13
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Team3S:
US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
True as this is, I thought we
were dealing with LEGAL avenues for this.
Believe me, I'd love to bring
in a Skyline and re-plate it as a 240SX, but
the thought of having my car
squished into a cube and being fined in the 6
digit range kind of ruins the
thrill of it.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:13 PM
To:
jeffv@1nce.com; Team3s Tech List
Subject:
Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I don't see the
problem.
When I worked with USAF officers at Patrick AFB (near Cape
Canaveral), they
told lots of stories about importing cars in the bellies of
C5As. Guys would
bring over MGs, Ferraris, and all kinds of gray market cars,
unload them out
on the tarmac, and drive them off the base.
Then,
those cars would simply "become" another car. For example, John Buffum
of Pro
Rally fame brought in a works Escort back in the 1970s by driving it
in from
Canada. Next thing you know, it was titled as a 1969 English Ford.
So all you
gotta do is fly it over, drive it off the base, go buy a wrecked
or
clapped-out 92 3000GT, transfer all the ID plates, and you are home
free.
\
Puhleeeze...don't tell me this hasn't been done
before.
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:55:49
-0500
From: "Infernalist" <
baali@wwnet.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
please dont tease me like that !!
1992 RT/TT
Apexi AVC-R (.95 Bar)
Gutted Rear Precat
TurboXS
H-RFL BOV
DN Performance Y-Pipe
Stillen DownPipe
Stage II Clutch
8mm
Wires
Autometer Boost Gauge on A-pillar
K&N FIPK
Lead Foot <----
That mod was free ;)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Joshua G. Prince
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:36 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
A fellow 3ser with a spyder
has his car in to get a new transmission due
to the normal problems with
gretag. Anyway, he told me that his
dealership mentioned to him that
Mitsubishi is considering recalling ALL
Vr-4's due to the transmission.
Anyone else heard of this? I assume
that would mean that they have a
brand new transmission or upgraded
parts for it. I thought I would
check with everyone. later
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:48:13
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I am also glad
to see my tax dollars at good use finally.....I am
sure you local base out
processing boy's (turtle farm) will know more
about what you can do or
not...I am sure this isn't the first non-us
car they had requests to bring
over....is the diff really worth all
the trouble?
- ---- Original
Message ----
From:
jeffv@1nce.comTo:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st,
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSubject:
RE: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
Date: Wed, 6 Mar
2002 14:29:13 -0500
>True as this is, I thought we were dealing with
LEGAL avenues for
>this.
>
>Believe me, I'd love to bring in
a Skyline and re-plate it as a
>240SX, but
>the thought of having
my car squished into a cube and being fined in
>the 6
>digit range
kind of ruins the thrill of it.
>
>Jeff VanOrsdal
>1991
Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>jeffv@1nce.com
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On
>Behalf
>Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:13 PM
>To:
jeffv@1nce.com; Team3s Tech
List
>Subject: Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the
US
>
>I don't see the problem.
>
>When I worked with
USAF officers at Patrick AFB (near Cape
>Canaveral), they
>told
lots of stories about importing cars in the bellies of C5As.
>Guys
would
>bring over MGs, Ferraris, and all kinds of gray market cars, unload
>them out
>on the tarmac, and drive them off the
base.
>
>Then, those cars would simply "become" another car. For
example,
>John Buffum
>of Pro Rally fame brought in a works Escort
back in the 1970s by
>driving it
>in from Canada. Next thing you
know, it was titled as a 1969 English
>Ford.
>So all you gotta do
is fly it over, drive it off the base, go buy a
>wrecked
>or
clapped-out 92 3000GT, transfer all the ID plates, and you are
>home
free.
>\
>Puhleeeze...don't tell me this hasn't been done
before.
>
>Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:50:50
-0700
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
+> True as
this is, I thought we were dealing with LEGAL avenues for this.
FWIW,
back in the gray-market days (early-mid 80's) I believe there was
some sort
of once-in-a-lifetime exemption that would allow you to import
any car
without all of the DOT safety issues. It allowed the enthusiast
to
have a chance to own a "non-US" version or never imported model in the
states. This loophole was allowed exactly once per person intending to
keep it from providing an avenue for dealers to bring in a glut of
untested european models. haha.
I've seen the paperwork
involved as my dad purchased a gray market 81
Porsche 930 that had brought
over in exactly this manner (he wasn't
the importer). I however don't
know the specific details of how one
would go about this process.
I'd
guess this loophole has long since been closed off, but it may be
worth
investigating.
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:05:50
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Team3S:
US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
I would love to find out that
this one-time law was still around. I'd be
making plans to ship a GTR
by tomorrow morning :)
The only current law that I'm aware of that's even
similar regards temporary
importation. You can file for a 1 year waiver
under certain circumstances,
but after the year is up, the car is either
converted to be compliant,
exported, or destroyed.
There's also a rule
allowing you to bring over any car you want, provided
it's for off road use
ONLY. There's a guy here in Michigan with a Lancer
Evolution V who did
that. He's been trying to sell it for months but can't
get rid of it
due to it being illegal for anything but closed circuit
racing.
What
really bugs me is that people can take a Mitsubishi Mirage, hack it to
bits,
graft on all the Lancer Evo driveline parts, and that's legal. But
I
have to pay $15,000 to an importer to get a factory assembled GTR
here.
Guys in this state drive dune buggies on the roads here, with license
plats
no less, and that's legal. But a 3000GT with the drivers seat on
the wrong
side of the car would be crushed on sight. Am I the only one
who thinks
this is asinine?
Also interesting is that diplomats get a
permanent waiver. Their cars can
come over as-is, no questions
asked. It makes one wonder if these
importation laws are actually about
safety, or if there's some strange
political motive behind them.
Jeff
VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Dave Monarchi
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:51 PM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Re: FW:
Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
+> True as this is,
I thought we were dealing with LEGAL avenues for this.
FWIW, back in the
gray-market days (early-mid 80's) I believe there was
some sort of
once-in-a-lifetime exemption that would allow you to import
any car without
all of the DOT safety issues. It allowed the enthusiast
to have a
chance to own a "non-US" version or never imported model in the
states.
This loophole was allowed exactly once per person intending to
keep it from
providing an avenue for dealers to bring in a glut of
untested european
models. haha.
I've seen the paperwork involved as my dad purchased
a gray market 81
Porsche 930 that had brought over in exactly this manner (he
wasn't
the importer). I however don't know the specific details of how
one
would go about this process.
I'd guess this loophole has long
since been closed off, but it may be
worth
investigating.
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html=
There is no spoon.. =
=======================
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:18:51
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Percentage in drivetrain loss
>Drivetrain loss (excluding
tires) is a percentage of engine speed and
>includes a multiplier for
engine maximum torque.
I would go along with this statement. But since we
are all MIT graduates
here we certainly know that HP = torque * RPM. Let me
rephrase it then:
Drivetrain loss (excluding tires) is a percentage of
maximum engine torque
or horsepower. If expressed in ft-lbs, it is assumed
not to change with
RPM. If expressed in HP, it is then increases linearly
with RPM.
This is how the CarTest software calculates drivetrain loss.
You might ask
how in the world then did Jack T. turn that drivetrain with all
that torque
loss with his bare hands. Well, Jack applied only 10-20 ft-lbs of
torque,
not 315 ft-lbs, therefore the drivetrain loss was very small.
The
horsepower loss was also close to zero since 10 ft-lbs * zero RPM =
zero.
Otherwise, it is twice the engine torque (horsepower) - twice the
torque
(horsepower) loss. Half the engine torque (horsepower) - half the
torque
(horsepower) loss.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:25:30
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: A 9.98 sec 3Ser
Also, there is a guy by the name of Mike Tucker
here in San Antonio.
His car is at GT-Pro right now (has been for a while),
with one goal of
at least 1000 hp. He has the money to back it, and
supposedly Brian is
doing almost everything custom... I think he is
using the 399R
turbos... And I know this is pushing it, but supposedly,
he will have
the car back by the end of the month... I'll report how it
goes...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of fastmax
Sent: Tuesday, March
05, 2002 10:24 PM
To:
team3s@team3s.com; Philip V.
Glazatov
Subject: Re: Team3S: A 9.98 sec 3Ser
Hell, I was designing
computers before God invented DOS. I didn't show
up until well after dirt was
invented though.
The DOS version of that program has been has been around
forever --- and
so the guy that wrote it would have to be fired and maybe got
a job at
Sears.
The math required for that program is pretty straight
forward --- ET and
trap
speed programs abound. However, I wouldn't expect
any original research
was done when writing the software.
Matt is the
most likely to get to the sub 10 level but Artie could if
the Nasdaq
would
turn around and give him a financial boost --- his origional goal
was
1100
hp.
Jim
berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday,
March 05, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: A 9.98 sec 3Ser
> Hi
Team,
>
> Those of you who did not follow the slightly geeky
drivetrain loss
thread
> probably missed a cool software link
>
http://home.earthlink.net/~patglenn/ct.html.
Jim Berry claims that he
knows
> the programmer as they worked at
Sears together 2 years ago selling
> underwear <joke>. The software
actually is pretty advanced and
accurate. I
> ran an interesting
simulation that produced a recipe for a sub 10 sec
car.
>
> The
ingredients:
> 1) Triple the horsepower = 960 HP
> 2) Reduce the
weight to 3300 lbs.
>
> Here are the simulation results:
>
> HP Torque Weight 1/4 mile ET
> 320 315 3970 14.08
>
> 640 630 3970 11.58
>
> 640 630 3300 11.00
>
>
960 945 3300 9.98
>
> Any other combination with power/weight =
0.291 should work just as
well.
> The first one to run below 10.0
seconds owes me a beer!
>
> Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:40:54
-0800
From: "tri" <
thn@dexray.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Team3S:
US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the US
it would really suck to have to
crash test your own car just to satisfy DOT
standards. the only company i
know of that has done that imports the skyline
GTR's. if anyone has heard of
the skyline blackbird, then you know what i'm
talking about.
on a
different point of view, how much hassle would it be to take your
engine +
mods and import it? if you live in CA, then i'm sure you'd have to
make it
emissions legal. I think that you would have an easier time of
importing your
parts and putting it back together over here...i'm not in nor
have been in
the military, but i heard somewhere that you guys can ship
anything for
free.
one last thing
" I'd love to bring in a Skyline and re-plate it
as a 240SX" would that even
work? i know the Sylvia is built on the same
platform as the 240sx. that may
be possible, but the skyline doesn't look
similar enough to me to be able to
pass if off as a 240sx.
just my
$.02 8-)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal"
<
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech
List" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>;
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: FW: Team3S: US Military
Importing '92 Jspec to the US
> True as this is, I thought we were
dealing with LEGAL avenues for this.
>
> Believe me, I'd love to
bring in a Skyline and re-plate it as a 240SX, but
> the thought of having
my car squished into a cube and being fined in the 6
> digit range kind of
ruins the thrill of it.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:13 PM
> To:
jeffv@1nce.com; Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the
US
>
> I don't see the problem.
>
> When I worked with
USAF officers at Patrick AFB (near Cape Canaveral),
they
> told lots of
stories about importing cars in the bellies of C5As. Guys
would
> bring
over MGs, Ferraris, and all kinds of gray market cars, unload
them
out
> on the tarmac, and drive them off the base.
>
>
Then, those cars would simply "become" another car. For example,
John
Buffum
> of Pro Rally fame brought in a works Escort back in the
1970s by driving
it
> in from Canada. Next thing you know, it was
titled as a 1969 English Ford.
> So all you gotta do is fly it over, drive
it off the base, go buy a
wrecked
> or clapped-out 92 3000GT, transfer
all the ID plates, and you are home
free.
> \
> Puhleeeze...don't
tell me this hasn't been done before.
>
> Rich/slow old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:43:02
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tornado type air charger
The other night I awoke and the TV was
on and they
where pitching a Tornado air charger that sits in the
air
intake line of a turbo type car. They claimed it
added anywhere from 4 to 24
HP. I remember seeing the
shade tree machanic show several weeks ago where
they
installed one on a corvette. I didn't see how it
preformed but would
like to know if anyone has tested
this stainless steel tornado in the air
intake system
and how it turned out. Just from thinking about it I
didn't
think it would be to good as it seems to me
anything extra in the air intake
would act as a drag
on the air geting to the turbos. Anyone know what
I'm
talking about or if this is a good or bad thing
to
consider.
Peter 92 Stealth TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:47:21
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Tornado type air charger
You hit the nail on the
head...
This is a gimmick, and only hinders performance... That's
all it can
do... What it "supposedly" does is swirl the air coming in
the
intake... Like its not already turbulent
enough...
Restriction... That should be the products name, not
tornado...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of menalteed
Sent: Wednesday,
March 06, 2002 2:43 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Tornado type air charger
The other night I awoke and the TV was
on and they
where pitching a Tornado air charger that sits in the
air
intake line of a turbo type car. They claimed it
added anywhere from 4 to 24
HP. I remember seeing the
shade tree machanic show several weeks ago where
they
installed one on a corvette. I didn't see how it
preformed but would
like to know if anyone has tested
this stainless steel tornado in the air
intake system
and how it turned out. Just from thinking about it I
didn't
think it would be to good as it seems to me
anything extra in the air intake
would act as a drag
on the air geting to the turbos. Anyone know what
I'm
talking about or if this is a good or bad thing
to
consider.
Peter 92 Stealth TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:43:06
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: RH Drive
>But a 3000GT with the drivers seat on the
wrong
>side of the car would be crushed on sight. Am I the only one
who thinks
>this is asinine?
So just install one on the
left.
>
When I was a kid growing up in Florida, some dude had a
righthand drive MGTD. He mounted a steering wheel on the left side and trained
his German Shepherd to sit in the LH seat with his paws on the steering wheel.
Meanwhile, he got a smaller steering wheel for the right side, so it was not
visible from outside the car. He'd scrunch down in the seat, so he was barely
visible.
He'd cruise up and down Cocoa Beach, with the German shepherd
"driving" and got all sorts of attention.
Rumor has it that he got
stopped by the cops, who asked him if the dog had a license. "License? No, man,
the dog don't drive" Or maybe that was a different urban legend.
BTW, I learned how to drive a stick shift in a 1953 MG-TD. Probably
accounts for the way I am.
Rich/slow old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:03:59
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: FW: Team3S: US Military Importing '92 Jspec to the
US
Rich:
Again you age yourself. :^)
Its really more
of a matter of how much money and time do you have..to
- -attempt-
it.
The best case..is you get to keep the car in the US, but if youre
ever
caught on the road..straight to the crusher.
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> I don't see the problem.
>
> When I worked with
USAF officers at Patrick AFB (near Cape Canaveral), they told lots of stories
about importing cars in the bellies of C5As. Guys would bring over MGs,
Ferraris, and all kinds of gray market cars, unload them out on the tarmac, and
drive them off the base.
>
> Then, those cars would simply "become"
another car. For example, John Buffum of Pro Rally fame brought in a works
Escort back in the 1970s by driving it in from Canada. Next thing you know, it
was titled as a 1969 English Ford. So all you gotta do is fly it over, drive it
off the base, go buy a wrecked or clapped-out 92 3000GT, transfer all the ID
plates, and you are home free.
> \
> Puhleeeze...don't tell me this
hasn't been done before.
>
> Rich/slow old poop
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:07:26
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tornado type air charger
And..what time of night was this ad
on the tube?
Nuff Said.(tm)
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, menalteed
wrote:
> The other night I awoke and the TV was on and they
>
where pitching a Tornado air charger that sits in the
> air intake line of
a turbo type car. They claimed it
> added anywhere from 4 to 24 HP. I
remember seeing the
> shade tree machanic show several weeks ago where
they
> installed one on a corvette. I didn't see how it
> preformed
but would like to know if anyone has tested
> this stainless steel tornado
in the air intake system
> and how it turned out. Just from thinking about
it I
> didn't think it would be to good as it seems to me
> anything
extra in the air intake would act as a drag
> on the air geting to the
turbos. Anyone know what I'm
> talking about or if this is a good or bad
thing to
> consider.
>
> Peter 92 Stealth
TT
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:28:24
-0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
It's not the Tranny
they're considering, it's the transfer case. We have
Department of
Transportation researching it (
www.nhtsa.dot.gov).
Basically, the
transmission causes problems, yes. But it does not cause
accidents if you
cant get into gear, however, the transfer case locking
up at 65 MPH will most
likely cause a accident!! SO IF YOU HAVE HAD A
TRANSFER CASE LOCK UP in or
out of warranty, email this person directly
g_3000@hotmail.com he is doing all the
research into this problem to
decide whether or not the VR4's and RT TT's
will be recalled for
TRANSFER case replacement by the dealer.
If you
want to see the thread it is a sticky at the top of the list on
3Si under
General "ATTN: To all 3SI Members, Important info concerning
tranny recall
Please Read !"
Or use this link
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=75c0e0fe4e1e7821ca8245be35279388&threadid=51908
Hope
this helps.
Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales
Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Joshua G. Prince
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:36 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
A fellow 3ser with a spyder
has his car in to get a new transmission due
to the normal problems with
gretag. Anyway, he told me that his
dealership mentioned to him that
Mitsubishi is considering recalling ALL
Vr-4's due to the transmission.
Anyone else heard of this? I assume
that would mean that they have a
brand new transmission or upgraded
parts for it. I thought I would
check with everyone. later
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:14:52
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Percentage in drivetrain loss
> >Drivetrain loss
(excluding tires) is a percentage of engine speed and
> >includes a
multiplier for engine maximum torque.
No unfortunately, it has nothing to
do with the engine.
> I would go along with this statement. But since
we are all MIT graduates
> here we certainly know that HP = torque * RPM.
Let me rephrase it then:
What does this have to do with this graduate
thing ? Please explain !
The formula sounds good :)
> Drivetrain
loss (excluding tires) is a percentage of maximum engine torque
> or
horsepower.
No, drivetrain loss must be decoupled from the power the
engine makes.
> If expressed in ft-lbs, it is assumed not to change
with
> RPM. If expressed in HP, it is then increases linearly with
RPM.
Well more or less linear. The friction increases even more the
higher the
tranny temp or the faster the internals are moving.
>
This is how the CarTest software calculates drivetrain loss. You might
ask
> how in the world then did Jack T. turn that drivetrain with all
that
torque
> loss with his bare hands. Well, Jack applied only 10-20
ft-lbs of torque,
> not 315 ft-lbs, therefore the drivetrain loss was very
small.
Yep, and now guess how much tourque and therefore power is needed
that Jack
can turn it wih a large handle up to 7000 rpm !!
As said it
must be full decoupled from any engine power or tourqe and it is
zero related
to it. And this is exactly how the loss is measured by the
coast down method.
When the operator notices power goes down after peak hp,
the clutch is
pressed and gas released. Then the dyno measures the
resistance to the drums
while of course the speed of the drums is decreasing
to zero. The engine is
fully decoupled now and the loss curve is recorded.
Just figure that you
remove the engine and the drums are activated to turn
the wheels up to a
speed of 240km/h. Then they shut off and measure the
resistance and time
until the wheel stop. Nada engine around but the
resistance can be used for
the hp loss on each speed point.
Now the measured torque to the drums is
plotted as well as the resulting hp
together with the loss curve (its a curve
not a straight line). The
resulting horsepower curve and the loss line can
now be added to get the
final hp curve on the plot.
The engine hp and
torque curve is what is needed to tune an engine. Due to
the non-linear loss
(the higher rpm the more logarithm the curve looks like)
and the changing
ambients the variable drivetrain must be eliminated as good
as possible.
Between two runs, a 5% difference can be found easily with the
absolutely
same settings. This is really a lot and it makes many
back-to-back runs
questionnable. After 5 runs a good median value can be
taken and considered
to be good.
Why engine power is so important : Althoug the wheel figure
also shows some
problems or ripples due to misfirings only the real engine
curve shows where
exactly the problem resists. On the day where we had 3 3S
cars on the dyno,
I was that stupid and forgot that I had my winter tires on
the rims. The
result was overheating them as we could feel like the car got
unstable on
the drums. Remember, a good AWD dyno must be able to change the
wheel base
distance and has 4 drums and 4 rolls. The wheels are sitting in
between them
to prevent any slipping. Even then we could smell the rubber so
we shut it
off earlier. But the final results of the comparison fo the three
cars was
possible because we eliminated the variable of the drivetrain. We
modify
flywheels to reduce rotating mass on the crank, we add bosot
controllers,
ignition systems, change turbos and so on and finally want to be
able to
compare the modifications done. For the racers it is omportant to
know the
power on the road but when you have a power hole in the curve
wihtout the
measured loss of the drivetrain (and tires of course) it is not
possible to
solve it fully. When you do it is possible that you have a
strange engine hp
curve at the end that is not good.
Conclusion
:
1. wheel horsepower is a function of measured tourque and rpm
2. loss
from the clutch to the threads of the tires is measured by the
coast-down
method
3. 2 is an individual dataset but it is included 1 - but not a
percentage of
1
4. engine hp is wheel horsepower + loss
The
percentage calculation is needed for easy guessing and it is often
very
off.
A short story for the end :
An Audi RS4 owner told me
that his car has 532hp. He said loss is about 33%
in the AWD cars and I told
him the same I told 3 years ago here and on the
old board. So he got the dyno
from an older Bosch dyno shop where loss was
not measured (just like the one
in the US today) In fact the wheel hp where
400 and he multiplied it by 1.33.
So we looked at the power line and I asked
him if there is really a loss of
132hp and if loss was less before he
installed the larger tubos an IC. We put
the car on the other dyno and saw
367hp on the wheels at 6300 with a loss of
90hp at the peak hp !
Now, one would say that the loss was 24.5% but this
is only valid at 6300 !
It is absolutely INVALID for all other
rpms.
The loss curve was increasing above 5500 heavily what resulted in
more power
the engine needed to turn the internals. Therefore the engines
curve still
increased. Needless to say that this car is a monster station
wagon :) So he
finally got a peak hp of 457 hp. He of course was dissapointed
until I
showed him the real engine curve. The wheel hp was going down after
6000.
Therefore one would say the engine is running out of steam. In fact
the
drivetrain loss was increasing and the resulting engine curve was
300rpm
longer climbing. We changed the tranny oil wiht the best castrol we
found
and went to the dyno a day later. The result was less drivetrain loss
of
around 80hp at the same rpm. But the result of the engine was still
457hp
(in fact we saw 463 then due to a little lower temps). Now take your hp
48
out and calc the wheel hp measured .... yep he got 383hp to the wheels,
16hp
more due to the less drivetrain loss. Well his butt dyno was able to
feel
the more top end hp ;-)
This was just an example how misleading
the percentage guess can be and I
just don't understand why many dyno
operators are not using this coast down
method. It seems to take 1 to 2 years
until they learned and then started to
use this method to find the real point
where problems are and that have to
be retuned.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch some dyno plots are under the
3000GT section
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:52:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Erik Petterson <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: installing subwoofers
Here's all I have crammed into my '91
stealth so far.
I have replaced the factory speakers with infinity
kapppa
6.5"s in the front and soon to be replacing the
rears with some
components. I have a pioneer 4
channel amp mounted to the back of one
of the rear
seats, that runs the door speakers. I have a box in
the
back with two 12" eclipse subs in it. A 600 watt
amp mounted on a rack
in the back with the box. I've
got the amps powered via a 4 gauge wire
from the
battery to the back and then split to two 8 gauge
wires powering
both of the amps(I think that makes
less of a draw on the alternator).
My alternator died
shortly before putting all of this in but the new
one
seems to handle all of it just fine... I'm now
working on
dynamatting the car so it's rattle proof.
Speaking of "dynamat"
and custom stereo installs..
Does anyone know of a custom stereo
webpage
specifically for our cars?
- -Erik
'91
Stealth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike &
Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
>
To: "team3s stealth-3000gt"
> <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:51 PM
> Subject: Team3S: installing
subwoofers
>
> > has anyone installed an amp and subwoofers
into
> their stealth or 3000gt?
> > was there any problem hooking
up to stock system?
> > MikeS 92r/t tt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:14:46
-0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: installing subwoofers
Eric Bowden has the most extensive stereo
upgrade I've ever seen documented
on the web:
Eric Bowden's 222HP
Stereo
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9907/stereo.htmlHope
this helps.
Dennis
93 Stealth ES
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
To:
"dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>; "team3s
stealth-3000gt"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: installing
subwoofers
Here's all I have crammed into my '91 stealth so far.
I
have replaced the factory speakers with infinity
kapppa 6.5"s in the front
and soon to be replacing the
rears with some components. I have a
pioneer 4
channel amp mounted to the back of one of the rear
seats, that
runs the door speakers. I have a box in
the back with two 12" eclipse
subs in it. A 600 watt
amp mounted on a rack in the back with the
box. I've
got the amps powered via a 4 gauge wire from the
battery
to the back and then split to two 8 gauge
wires powering both of the amps(I
think that makes
less of a draw on the alternator). My alternator
died
shortly before putting all of this in but the new one
seems to handle
all of it just fine... I'm now
working on dynamatting the car so it's
rattle proof.
Speaking of "dynamat" and custom stereo installs..
Does
anyone know of a custom stereo webpage
specifically for our cars?
-
-Erik
'91 Stealth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
>
To: "team3s stealth-3000gt"
> <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:51 PM
> Subject: Team3S: installing
subwoofers
>
> > has anyone installed an amp and subwoofers
into
> their stealth or 3000gt?
> > was there any problem hooking
up to stock system?
> > MikeS 92r/t tt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:29:35
-0800
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <
jtabler@summitmicro.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
FWIW, I copied this
from:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/index.cfm(click
"vehicle" and follow up with year, make, and
model)
==========================================
NHTSA Action Number:
PE02013
Make: MITSUBISHI
Model: 3000GT
Year: 1992
Component:
WHEELS
Manufacturer: MITSUBISHI AMERICA
Date Investigation Opened: Thu,
January 31, 2002
Date Investigation Closed:
NHTSA Recall Campaign
Number:
Summary:
TRANSFER CASE LOCKUP
==========================================
BlackLight
wrote:
> It's not the Tranny they're considering, it's the transfer
case. We have
> Department of Transportation researching it (
www.nhtsa.dot.gov).
> Basically, the
transmission causes problems, yes. But it does not cause
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:15:06
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tornado type air charger
Not to offend Peter, but if you have to
ask, you should be required to buy
one as punishment :
)
Regards,
DaveT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "cody"
<
overclck@satx.rr.com>
To:
"'menalteed'" <
menalteed@yahoo.com>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tornado type air
charger
You hit the nail on the head...
This is a gimmick, and
only hinders performance... That's all it can
do... What it
"supposedly" does is swirl the air coming in the
intake... Like its not
already turbulent enough...
Restriction... That should be the products
name, not tornado...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of menalteed
Sent: Wednesday,
March 06, 2002 2:43 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Tornado type air charger
The other night I awoke and the TV was
on and they
where pitching a Tornado air charger that sits in the
air
intake line of a turbo type car. They claimed it
added anywhere from 4 to 24
HP. I remember seeing the
shade tree machanic show several weeks ago where
they
installed one on a corvette. I didn't see how it
preformed but would
like to know if anyone has tested
this stainless steel tornado in the air
intake system
and how it turned out. Just from thinking about it I
didn't
think it would be to good as it seems to me
anything extra in the air intake
would act as a drag
on the air geting to the turbos. Anyone know what
I'm
talking about or if this is a good or bad thing
to
consider.
Peter 92 Stealth TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:35:50
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
I asked Norco Mitsu and
they confirmed that Mitsu is considering a recall on all the Getrag
trannies.
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Date:
Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19 -0500
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject:
Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> A fellow 3ser with a
spyder has his car in to get a new transmission due
> to the normal
problems with gretag. Anyway, he told me that his
> dealership
mentioned to him that Mitsubishi is considering recalling ALL
> Vr-4's due
to the transmission. Anyone else heard of this? I assume
>
that would mean that they have a brand new transmission or upgraded
>
parts for it. I thought I would check with everyone.
later
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:00:25
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
christopher0@attbi.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: installing subwoofers
Here's some old pics of mine:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33884No
"HowTo", just some pics for inspiration. ;)
If I had to do it again, I'd
make it removeable.
Christopher
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Erik Petterson
>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:52 PM
> To: dakken; team3s
stealth-3000gt
> Subject: Re: Team3S: installing subwoofers
>
> Speaking of "dynamat" and custom stereo installs..
> Does anyone
know of a custom stereo webpage
> specifically for our cars?
>
> -Erik
>
> '91 Stealth
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:13:23
-0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
This would probably be
from Mitsubishi's side of things then, not from
DOT. That would be very nice
of them to actually DO it! I'd have to stop
calling them Satin!!
Matt
Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem
OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of John Stegall III
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:36 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
I asked Norco Mitsu and
they confirmed that Mitsu is considering a
recall on all the Getrag
trannies.
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Date:
Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19 -0500
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject:
Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> A fellow 3ser with a
spyder has his car in to get a new transmission
> due to the normal
problems with gretag. Anyway, he told me that his
> dealership
mentioned to him that Mitsubishi is considering recalling
> ALL Vr-4's
due to the transmission. Anyone else heard of this? I
>
assume that would mean that they have a brand new transmission or
>
upgraded parts for it. I thought I would check with everyone.
later
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:33:47
-0800
From: "Bradford J. Gay" <
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Front Strut Bar
Where would one recommend going to get a front
strut bar for a 97 VR-4?
Also, I've got a buddy telling me to put two boost
gauges in (one for
each turbo, so he says). To me, this really doesn't
sound like a decent
idea. What's your takes on the dual
gauges?
- -Brad
bradfordjgay@charter.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:31:37
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
If there is indeed some activity in
that area we ought to get involved as a group.
Any way to find out if such a
thing is being considered, and how we might
provide some imput into the
decision making.
Jim
Berry
=======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
>
I asked Norco Mitsu and they confirmed that Mitsu is considering a recall on all
the Getrag trannies.
>
> John
> 1994 3000GT VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19 -0500
> To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Subject: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
>
> > A
fellow 3ser with a spyder has his car in to get a new transmission due
>
> to the normal problems with gretag. Anyway, he told me that
his
> > dealership mentioned to him that Mitsubishi is considering
recalling ALL
> > Vr-4's due to the transmission. Anyone else
heard of this? I assume
> > that would mean that they have a
brand new transmission or upgraded
> > parts for it. I thought I
would check with everyone. later
> >
> > Joshua
Prince
> > 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
> >
3SI#0136
> > Microsoft Certified System Engineer
> >
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:37:57
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
I saw on
www.3si.org <
http://www.3si.org/> that people
found
email/snail mail address for people at gretag and were emailing
them...
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:32 PM
To: John Stegall III;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
If there is indeed
some activity in that area we ought to get involved
as a group.
Any way to
find out if such a thing is being considered, and how we
might
provide
some imput into the decision
making.
Jim
Berry
=======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
>
I asked Norco Mitsu and they confirmed that Mitsu is considering a
recall on
all the Getrag trannies.
>
> John
> 1994 3000GT
VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joshua G. Prince"
<
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19 -0500
> To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Subject: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
>
> > A
fellow 3ser with a spyder has his car in to get a new
transmission
due
> > to the normal problems with gretag.
Anyway, he told me that his
> > dealership mentioned to him that
Mitsubishi is considering recalling
ALL
> > Vr-4's due to the
transmission. Anyone else heard of this? I
assume
> >
that would mean that they have a brand new transmission or upgraded
> >
parts for it. I thought I would check with everyone. later
>
>
> > Joshua Prince
> > 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> > 3SI#0136
> > Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
> >
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:39:50
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
christopher0@attbi.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Front Strut Bar
The boost from the turbos is merged into one
at the Y-Pipe, so you only need
one gauge. However dual EGT and/or
Air/Fuel gauges would be usefull.
Christopher
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Bradford J. Gay
>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:34 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Front Strut Bar
>
> Where would one recommend going
to get a front strut bar for a 97 VR-4?
> Also, I've got a buddy telling
me to put two boost gauges in (one for
> each turbo, so he says). To
me, this really doesn't sound like a decent
> idea. What's your
takes on the dual gauges?
>
> -Brad
>
bradfordjgay@charter.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:39:17
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
If this indeed ever
happened, who would recall the Stealth R/T tt trannies?
Mitsubishi or Dodge
-- I mean where would we go to get them replaced?
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of fastmax
Sent: Wednesday,
March 06, 2002 9:32 PM
To: John Stegall III;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
If there is indeed some
activity in that area we ought to get involved as a
group.
Any way to find
out if such a thing is being considered, and how we might
provide some imput
into the decision making.
Jim
Berry
=======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
>
I asked Norco Mitsu and they confirmed that Mitsu is considering a recall
on
all the Getrag trannies.
>
> John
> 1994 3000GT
VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joshua G. Prince"
<
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:36:19 -0500
> To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Subject: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
>
> > A
fellow 3ser with a spyder has his car in to get a new transmission due
>
> to the normal problems with gretag. Anyway, he told me that
his
> > dealership mentioned to him that Mitsubishi is considering
recalling ALL
> > Vr-4's due to the transmission. Anyone else
heard of this? I assume
> > that would mean that they have a
brand new transmission or upgraded
> > parts for it. I thought I
would check with everyone. later
> >
> > Joshua
Prince
> > 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
> >
3SI#0136
> > Microsoft Certified System Engineer
> >
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:47:08
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
christopher0@attbi.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
I wouldn't start spamming
anyone before reading the whole thread and/or
contacting Bob Fontana
first. (Note there are two threads; one for
transmissions and one for
transfer cases) Bob ~may~ be the one who got the
ball rolling on
this. He definitely has made some head way on opening up
the
communication channels.
Transmission thread:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57924Transfer
Case thread:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51908Christopher
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Joshua G. Prince
>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:38 PM
> To: fastmax;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
>
> I saw on
www.3si.org <
http://www.3si.org/> that people
found
> email/snail mail address for people at gretag and were emailing
them...
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:06:39
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
I agree with that ---- a bunch of spam
from individuals would probably
have little effect. What is needed is a
letter from a couple of users groups
outlining the concerns and
disappointment with Mitsubishi's response to
what is considered a major
defect in the Mitsubishi product line. The issue
is not to get into a pissing
contest but to stick to the major issues which are
the synchros and the
output shaft along with the lack of spare parts.
I was unaware of Bob
Fontana's progress, I know Jack T has had considerable
dialog with Mitsu and
Getrag ---- maybe he could provide some contacts or
insight into what's going
on.
Jim
Berry
===============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
christopher0@attbi.com>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall
transmission?
> I wouldn't start spamming anyone before reading the
whole thread and/or
> contacting Bob Fontana first. (Note there are
two threads; one for
> transmissions and one for transfer cases) Bob
~may~ be the one who got the
> ball rolling on this. He definitely
has made some head way on opening up
> the communication channels.
>
> Transmission thread:
>
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57924>
> Transfer Case thread:
>
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51908>
> Christopher
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > Of Joshua G.
Prince
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:38 PM
> > To:
fastmax;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> >
>
> I saw on
www.3si.org <
http://www.3si.org/> that people
found
> > email/snail mail address for people at gretag and were
emailing them...
> >
> > Joshua Prince
> > 97 1/2 Fly
Yellow Hummer Convertible
> > 3SI#0136
> > Microsoft Certified
System Engineer
> >
Joshua@Unconundrum.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:26:09
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Percentage in drivetrain loss
Roger, please read this article
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/power3.htm.
The
author has some good points and I do not want to re-post abstracts since
he
claims that all of his writing is his intellectual property. There is a
good paragraph right in the middle that starts with OK.
His
conclusions are that the coastdown method measures something related to
the
drivetrain loss but not the drivetrain loss itself since there is zero
load
on the drivetrain when these measurements are taken. But when the
engine
torque is transmitted through the drivetrain the losses will be
higher.
The coastdown method is cool and I think everyone should use it.
It
measures and accounts for the losses that are due to tire loss, the
parasitic hydraulic loss in the drivetrain and some of the drivetrain loss
that it there regardless of the engine torque. But it does not and can not
measure the increase in the drivetrain loss when a large engine torque is
applied and transmitted through the drivetrain to the wheels.
A large
part of the loss measured by the coastdown method is the tire loss.
This is
why the loss curve becomes exponential at high vehicle speeds.
If the
dyno is not electrical or not "smart", this coastdown loss is also
being
slightly distorted by the inertia of the rotating parts that is
different
during the acceleration and during the coastdown since the rates
of speed
change are different during the acceleration and the coastdown.
>What
does this have to do with this graduate thing ?
Someone just complimented
on all the intellect that we have on this list
and I played
along.
>A short story for the end :
...
>We changed the
tranny oil wiht the best castrol we found
>The result was less drivetrain
loss of
>around 80hp at the same rpm. But the result of the engine was
still 457hp
>(in fact we saw 463 then due to a little lower
temps).
Here it comes! The HP at the wheels was higher by 16 HP but the
coastdown
loss was lower by only 10 HP. I'd say the 6 HP increase in wheel
horsepower
was due to the decrease in the engine torque related drivetrain
losses that
were not measured by the coastdown
method!
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:25:36
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> The issue is not to
get into a pissing contest but to stick to the
> major issues which are
the synchros and the output shaft along
> with the lack of spare
parts.
I think you got the nail right on the head with that one,
Jim... Especially
the lack of spare parts. If we could at least
get parts, then it wouldn't
be multiple thousands of dollars per shot for
simple fixes like synchros
(which seems to be the most common
complaint).
I can't imagine Mitsubishi outright recalling these trannys
though. They
aren't even selling the cars anymore - what reason do they
have to recall
them at a cost to them of $2000-4000 per tranny? I just
don't see it.
There really isn't a safety issue with them like the DSM
transfer case yokes
had - and in that case NHTSB had to force the recall down
Mitsubishi's
throat.
Just being able to order real Getrag replacement
parts would make my day,
and should make any AWD 3/S owner happy compared to
the situation as it is
today.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:34:30
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
But you can purchase
replacements parts. Check out
www.parts.com<
http://www.parts.com/> and you can buy
the synchro's and everything.
Don't ask me how they get
them....
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -
-----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
[mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:26
PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> The issue is
not to get into a pissing contest but to stick to the
> major issues which
are the synchros and the output shaft along
> with the lack of spare
parts.
I think you got the nail right on the head with that one,
Jim...
Especially
the lack of spare parts. If we could at least get
parts, then it
wouldn't
be multiple thousands of dollars per shot for
simple fixes like synchros
(which seems to be the most common
complaint).
I can't imagine Mitsubishi outright recalling these trannys
though.
They
aren't even selling the cars anymore - what reason do they
have to
recall
them at a cost to them of $2000-4000 per tranny? I
just don't see it.
There really isn't a safety issue with them like the DSM
transfer case
yokes
had - and in that case NHTSB had to force the recall
down Mitsubishi's
throat.
Just being able to order real Getrag
replacement parts would make my
day,
and should make any AWD 3/S owner
happy compared to the situation as it
is
today.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:36:03
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
> But you can purchase
replacements parts. Check out
>
www.parts.com <
http://www.parts.com/> and you can
buy
> the synchro's and everything. Don't ask me how they get
them....
Has anyone actually gotten part orders filled from
them?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:38:00
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
according to that site all I can buy
for my 93 TT AWD is a transmission for
$5200 or a few seals !!! I didn't see
any internals.
Jim
Berry
======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
But you can purchase replacements parts. Check out
www.parts.com> <
http://www.parts.com/> and you can buy
the synchro's and everything.
> Don't ask me how they get
them....
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:51:58
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
Go here
http://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?
<
http://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?&MakeID=24&year=2001&ModelID=0&CatalogID=1>
&MakeID=24&year=2001&ModelID=0&CatalogID=1 , then choose
1995
for year and model 3000gt. You will see Manual Transaxle come up
in a
list and from there you can find the synchros and such.
Joshua
Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft
Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:38 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince; Jannusch, Matt;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
according to that
site all I can buy for my 93 TT AWD is a transmission
for
$5200 or a few
seals !!! I didn't see any
internals.
Jim
Berry
======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
But you can purchase replacements parts. Check out
www.parts.com> <
http://www.parts.com/ <
http://www.parts.com/> > and you
can buy the
synchro's and everything.
> Don't ask me how they get
them....
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:46
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
If you do a search for a 93 3000 gt
w/awd all you get is a assembly and it's
about $2000 less than it is for the
93 Stealth. I see it listed parts for the 95
3000 but I don't really believe
you can get any new parts from them --- a
phone call should be able to
straighten it out.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
To:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall
transmission?
Go here
http://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?
<
http://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?&MakeID=24&year=2001&ModelID=0&CatalogID=1>
&MakeID=24&year=2001&ModelID=0&CatalogID=1 , then choose
1995
for year and model 3000gt. You will see Manual Transaxle come up
in a
list and from there you can find the synchros and such.
Joshua
Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft
Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:38 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince; Jannusch, Matt;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Mitsubishi to recall transmission?
according to that
site all I can buy for my 93 TT AWD is a transmission
for
$5200 or a few
seals !!! I didn't see any
internals.
Jim
Berry
======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
>
But you can purchase replacements parts. Check out
www.parts.com> <
http://www.parts.com/ <
http://www.parts.com/> > and you
can buy the
synchro's and everything.
> Don't ask me how they get
them....
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:54:48
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Front Strut Bar
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bradford J. Gay
<
bradfordjgay@charter.net>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Team3S: Front Strut
Bar
>Where would one recommend going to get a front strut bar for a 97
VR-4?
>Also, I've got a buddy telling me to put two boost gauges in (one
for
>each turbo, so he says). To me, this really doesn't sound like
a decent
>idea. What's your takes on the dual gauges?
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad,
I got my front strut bar from Chris :
Supermacnum1@aol.comMine was $115
shipped :
http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/motor1.jpgSmaller
pic:
http://www.brightok.net/~tds/motor1_s.jpgHe
also makes a double bar for just a little more and
he builds rear strut bars
at reasonable prices too.
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:09:59
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Run high-impedance injectors off the low-impedance driver
signal?
> For DC circuits:
> Inductors have an impedance of 0
(zero),
wrong
Reactance squared + resistance squared = impedance
squared.
At DC reactance = zero
So impedance = resistance.
Because
the injectors are being pulsed, impedance is more appropriate
than
resistance.
The injector output circuitry is the same on all the
ECUs.The only
difference being the balast resistor needed on low impedence
injectors.
Steve
capacitors have an impedance of
>
infinity (open circuit), and resistors have an impedance equal to their
>
resistance (R).
>
> If anyone cares how one derives the
above...
> -------------------------------------------------
> Z =
impedance
> R = resistance
> w = angular frequency of AC
supply
> j = square root of -1 ("i" for non-EE-types)
> L =
inductance of inductor
> C = capacitance of capacitor
>
>
Resistor: Z(ohms) = R
> Capacitor: Z(ohms) = 1/jwC
> Inductor:
Z(ohms) = jwL
>
> Plug in 0 (zero) for "w" in the above since the
frequency of a DC supply
is
> zero, and you get infinity for the
capacitor and zero for the inductor.
>
-------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
--Erik
> first time I've used that since college :-)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 04:58:27
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: advantages of running 275/40/17?
instead of the normal 245/45/17
(1st gen tt)? Would these fit fine for both
front and rear? Would
it be ok if I got 2 of the 275/40/17 and used 2
245/45/17? If so, would
it be better to have the 275/40 on the front
or
back?
thanks,
Bill
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:38:41
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: advantages of running 275/40/17?
I have got this one you will
need to check tirerack website here's why......
When they measured the OD
(overall diameter) they use a certain width wheel.
I.e. on 245/40 R18 they
got the OD by measuring the tire on a 8.5" wheel as
where on the 275/35 R18
they used a 9.5" wheel. Hence check the specs on
the tire and find out
how they cam up with their numbers. If the OD's match
very closely
(24.56" vs 24.57") you should be alright but somebody who
really knows can
confirm/deny this for me
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Bill vp [SMTP:billvp@highstream.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:58
AM
> To: team3/S
> Subject: Team3S: advantages of running
275/40/17?
>
> instead of the normal 245/45/17 (1st gen tt)?
Would these fit fine for
> both
> front and rear? Would it be
ok if I got 2 of the 275/40/17 and used 2
> 245/45/17? If so, would
it be better to have the 275/40 on the front or
> back?
>
>
thanks,
> Bill
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#774
***************************************
