*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:59:09 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

I forgot to mention that the rear strut tower bar can also be used for a
harness bar if you do not have a rollbar, rollcage, or harness bar
already in the car. Although not ideal, it is large enough to work
(info is available on www.tecperformance.com). I already have a rollbar
so I didn't think about adding this info.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with rollbar

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:04:15 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach

Heres my delima,
I've had a set of new eibach's laying around for 2 years, undecided on
weather or not to use them. I've used eibachs in the past on different cars
and have always liked the results. Recently someone posted on 3si that they
have a set of Intrax springs they want to trade for a set of eibachs.

Has anybody on the list here used both, and can offer me a comparison.
So far, the only reason i have to trade is that the intrax have a lower ride.

Wayne

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:11:12 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Correct, assuming it's not one of those weenie bars like Cusco. I have a
Roadrace Engineering bar which is similar to the Tec Performance bar.
You need a rollbar size bar to attach a shoulder harness.

        Jim Berry

PS. --- would somebody please sell me a 2nd gen crankshaft !!!!!!!!!

=================================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>

> I forgot to mention that the rear strut tower bar can also be used for a
> harness bar if you do not have a rollbar, rollcage, or harness bar
> already in the car. Although not ideal, it is large enough to work
> (info is available on www.tecperformance.com). I already have a rollbar
> so I didn't think about adding this info.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:15:11 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Cody -- For the novice driver a car that understeers is safer. For the
beginning road racing/AutoX fanatic a car that oversteers is safer
(gives ability for throttle control, counter steering, etc. instead of
stomping on the brakes before plowing off the turn). Actually, I don't
mean to address you but you hit the nail on the head so I was
reinforcing it ... I'm mostly spewing this out for the rest of the list.

I thought my car was oversteering too much with just the upgraded rear
anti-sway bar. My driving instructor felt it was not oversteering
enough for him (he enjoys playing with throttle and steering all the
time). I'm not up to his level yet so this is fine with me. I'm not
sure I will add a front anti-sway bar (you want to buy it Erik as long
as I promise not to lose it between PA and WA?) but I will wait for a
suspension spring/shock mod to see if I require it. Feel free to
contact me about the below results of the experiment.

1. Stock front and rear anti-sway bars and no strut tower bars
Result 1A. Understeer (safe for most drivers but no fun for
   AutoX/Road course)

2. Rear anti-sway bar only upgrade
Result 2A. Slight oversteer (good for Road course)
Result 2B. Big oversteer at low speeds and high torque gear
   (good for AutoX but not always predictable until driver
   is comfy with it)
Result 2C. Twitchy feeling at high speed and a swerve maneuver
   (not good for high-speed chicane moves)

3. Rear anti-sway bar with front and rear strut tower bar
   from TEC Performance
Result 3A. slight oversteer (good for track people)
Result 3B. Stable-feeling platform at lower speed chicanes
   (good for AutoX/Road course)
Result 3C. Less of a "pig" on high-speed corners as the car
   feels less heavy and more maneuverable

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and rear anti-sway bar only but tested a few other setups

- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 22:03

It almost seems like this would be optimum if driven correctly, more
like a RWD car than a AWD car...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Floyd, Jim
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:12 PM

When I had only the rear strut and anti-sway bar the car really
oversteered - it was too twitchy - dangerous.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eric [mailto:griz600cc@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 9:19 PM

How much of a factor is it with only a new rear sway bar vs. the car
With new front and rear sway bars?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:23:23 -0800
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Team3S: turbo spooling, too slow?

Hi folks,

I have 1500 miles or so on my new 13G turbos and new engine. I also have
gutted precats, but the stock downpipe, main cat, and exhaust. I was
expecting the new 13G's with gutted precats to spool up to 15 psi almost as
fast as the 9B's with intact precats, i.e. 15 psi around 3100 RPM. However,
my 13G's don't see 15 psi until about 4000 RPM. In numerous posts in the
past, folks have mentioned that the 13G & 15G "spool almost as quickly" as
the 9B. This is not what I'm currently experiencing! Does this spooling
seem correct? Will the spoolup time get quicker as the turbos "break-in"
some more?

Thanks,
Ken

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:27:33 -0600
From: "Marvin Rubenking" <mr54043@alltel.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't start, please help! Update, really confused now...

OK, I checked the CAS. It is not pulsing while the car is not running. It
is setting at a steady 5V. All the other checks looked good too, except the
one that says your Tach should not read zero while cranking. My tach sets
on zero while I am turning it over, it says this could be the CAS or ECU
bad. Any thoughts or suggestions now?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Omar Malik
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't start, please help! Update, really
confused now...

Here's a couple rips from the manual regarding the CAS
http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/omar/cas001.gif
http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/omar/cas002.gif
http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/omar/cas003.gif

I've seen these symptoms before with a friends car.. he would get fuel and
spark, but it just wouldnt crank over. Turned out being the crank angle
sensor. We tried everything to try and get the car to run. In the end we ran
out of gas from all the cranking we did. I guess the best way to check is if
you get a pulse type signal with the car in the "on" position, but the
engine not running. check out cas001.gif for that procedure.

Omar

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Marvin Rubenking
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:36 AM
To: Omar Malik; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't start, please help! Update, really
confused now...

I do not have a manual, but I know I need one. Would it have spark if this
was bad? What would keep it from running? Does anyone have the procedure
to check this, since I don't have a manual yet? Thanks in advance!

Marv Rubenking, 91 SL

- -----Original Message-----
From: Omar Malik [mailto:ojm@iname.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:10 PM
To: Marvin Rubenking
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't start, please help! Update, really
confused now...

Sounds like it could be the crank angle sensor.. i've seen the exact same
symptoms before. Pretty easy to check on the 91 and 92s.. sticks out the
left side of the rear valve cover where the intake cam is. Don't know if you
have a service manual or not.. but there's a procedure in there to check it.

Omar 92 r/t

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Marvin Rubenking
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:49 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't start, please help! Update, really
confused now...

91 GT SL,
Still Won't Start, turns over excellent.
Fuel Pump is OK.
Fuel Filter is OK.
Fuel Pressure Regulating valve is OK.
Good spark on all three front cylinders, new plugs and wires all around.
Haven't pulled the plenum again to check spark and compression on the back
cylinders, I am assuming since the front looks so good, no need.
Good compression on front cylinders.
When front plugs are pulled, they appear to be wet with fuel, Injectors
working??? Assuming so, not sure.
Checked timing via marks per procedure on website, looks good.

What else can cause this thing not to start??? Minimal knowledge here,
please help!

What happens when the ECU fails? What happens when the Capacitors in the
ECU fail? And how do you get the ECU out of that hole???

Thanks in Advance.
Marv Rubenking
91 SL, Pearl White

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:24:05 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Jim -- I mentioned this fact to Chris and I think he said that was the
reason he made it so beefy. Maybe it just happened to work out that
way. Anyway, I said the only other bar I've seen used as a harness was
the RoadRace Engineering one but then again I don't think it looks much
like a bar, right? Isn't it more like an I-beam structure with what
looks like a bridge support in the middle (webs making triangles in the
middle)? I think Chris said he took the rear hatch off his car and was
literally jumping up and down on his bar and someone was watching for it
to move. Nada. I mean this thing is really strong. And at only 8
pounds or so it is light for what it offers (the upgraded anti-sway bars
weigh 14 pounds by the way so the 8 pounds is a guess when comparing it
to a 5 pound bag of sugar and the 14 pound anti-sway bar ... worse than
a bathroom scale but close enough).

I still do not endorse using a bar that is supposed to be transmitting
forces sideways into a bar that is having to resist forces perpendicular
to it but that is not what I'm endorsing here (just the fact that a 200
pound person stopping at 1.0 G with a harness it putting ... gross
numbers ... 1.0 G on the bar. With a passenger this means 2.0 Gs. I'm
sure it will take it but I don't think SCCA folks, etc. would approve it
... maybe the NASA and EMRA and HPDE since they want to get you on the
track but they also don't always check battery terminal connections,
brake fluid reservoir level, brake pad thickness either.

The bar DOES do the trick (like the RoadRace Engineering bar). I can't
comment on how it does as a harness bar as I did not use it for that. I
only used it for a strut tower bar.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 23:11

Correct, assuming it's not one of those weenie bars like Cusco. I have a

Roadrace Engineering bar which is similar to the Tec Performance bar.
You need a rollbar size bar to attach a shoulder harness.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>

> I forgot to mention that the rear strut tower bar can also be used for
a
> harness bar if you do not have a rollbar, rollcage, or harness bar
> already in the car. Although not ideal, it is large enough to work
> (info is available on www.tecperformance.com). I already have a
rollbar
> so I didn't think about adding this info.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 2002 20:44:20 PST
From: Dean Benz <dbenz@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Darren, why would you want an AWD car that drives like a RWD?

IMHO a well balanced car that I can change the characteristics of by shifting
weight (throttle/brake/shift) would be my preference.

There is nothing quite like an AWD in a four wheel drift as you power through
a late apex headed for the exit of a turn.

Dean Benz

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:58:20 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Yet another wheel fitment question

Re: Team3S: Yet another wheel fitment question

I've seen quite a lot of GTOs over here with aftermarket wheels, fitted in
Japan. To get them to fit I've seen the calipers machined down to give
enough clearance by the spokes. I've no idea how much machining is "safe".
Just another possibility.

Steve

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:46:53 -0600
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Sorry if this is a duplicate post, but I didn't see it come back.
Rich
________

Last week, the Cedar Rapids, Iowa, speed shop Fast and Furious did the "free horsepower" mod to my 92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo. This is a completely bone stock Talon with 115,000 miles and Blizzak snow tires, onto which F&F executed the RRE "free mods" (free, plus $50 labor, of course).

Today, we had a chance to do a baseline check to see how we're doing. Here are the results of four consecutive passes on a G-Tech:

1. 13.93 @ 101.8
2. 14.39 @ 96.1
3. 14.05 @ 99.1
4. 13.78 @ 104.2

That's with a pro drag racer driving and launching, smoking all four wheels. I couldn't possibly launch a car like that. I've been in the car when Trent Durham, the owner of F&F, did such a launch, and I'm not sure my neck can take the snap.

I am a road racer/rally driver, not a drag racer, but this is how we are going to judge all future mods. Trent tells me he has a few more interesting mods to make as we shoot for low 13s next.

He has cast his evil eye on my 3000GT VR4 and says he can easily get it into the 12s, maybe the high 11s with a little fiddling and proper driving. I dunno about all this juvenile drag racing hero driving crap. But if he can get my stock Talon into the 13s with a $50 mod, I am all for it. It sure gets up to where I want to go -- 100+ on gravel -- pretty dang quick now, and it's not a peaky as it was.

But into the 11s on my VR4? Holy shit.

C'mon out Eastern Iowans - let's not let this guy get away.
Rich
94 3000GT VR4 TT AWD
92 Talon TSi AWD turbo

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:56:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

No offense..but the DSMs are pretty easy to get to the 13s on _very_
little money.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:

> Sorry if this is a duplicate post, but I didn't see it come back.
> Rich
> ________
>
> Last week, the Cedar Rapids, Iowa, speed shop Fast and Furious did the "free horsepower" mod to my 92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo. This is a completely bone stock Talon with 115,000 miles and Blizzak snow tires, onto which F&F executed the RRE "free mods" (free, plus $50 labor, of course).
>
> Today, we had a chance to do a baseline check to see how we're doing. Here are the results of four consecutive passes on a G-Tech:
>
> 1. 13.93 @ 101.8
> 2. 14.39 @ 96.1
> 3. 14.05 @ 99.1
> 4. 13.78 @ 104.2
>
> That's with a pro drag racer driving and launching, smoking all four wheels. I couldn't possibly launch a car like that. I've been in the car when Trent Durham, the owner of F&F, did such a launch, and I'm not sure my neck can take the snap.
>
> I am a road racer/rally driver, not a drag racer, but this is how we are going to judge all future mods. Trent tells me he has a few more interesting mods to make as we shoot for low 13s next.
>
> He has cast his evil eye on my 3000GT VR4 and says he can easily get it into the 12s, maybe the high 11s with a little fiddling and proper driving. I dunno about all this juvenile drag racing hero driving crap. But if he can get my stock Talon into the 13s with a $50 mod, I am all for it. It sure gets up to where I want to go -- 100+ on gravel -- pretty dang quick now, and it's not a peaky as it was.
>
> But into the 11s on my VR4? Holy shit.
>
> C'mon out Eastern Iowans - let's not let this guy get away.
> Rich
> 94 3000GT VR4 TT AWD
> 92 Talon TSi AWD turbo

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:05:49 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo spooling, too slow?

Ken,
My set up is exactly like yours, but I've got the GT347s, which are only
slightly larger than the 13Gs (370cfm vs 390cfm). I was also predicting
full boost at around 3000 or so, but that's definitely not the case.
For instance, full boost (0.95bar) hits about 4000 in 1st, a little less
in 2nd, 3500 in 3rd, and about 3300 in 4th (average around 3600 for all
gears). Definitely not quite as fast as I'd like, but it's alright.
let's wait to see what Jim's GT368s do! Ha, that should be funny!!!
I'm guessing 5000RPM or more in the lower gears.

Hope this eases your worries
Damon

Ken Middaugh wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I have 1500 miles or so on my new 13G turbos and new engine. I also have
> gutted precats, but the stock downpipe, main cat, and exhaust. I was
> expecting the new 13G's with gutted precats to spool up to 15 psi almost as
> fast as the 9B's with intact precats, i.e. 15 psi around 3100 RPM. However,
> my 13G's don't see 15 psi until about 4000 RPM. In numerous posts in the
> past, folks have mentioned that the 13G & 15G "spool almost as quickly" as
> the 9B. This is not what I'm currently experiencing! Does this spooling
> seem correct? Will the spoolup time get quicker as the turbos "break-in"
> some more?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:22:30 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach

Comparison is simple: Similar spring rates, similar performance.
Intrax lowers the car about a half inch more than Eibach. Both use
progressive rate springs... I only have had Intrax on my 3000, but I had
Eibach on my Talon TSI I used to have... They both perform the same to
me...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Wayne
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:04 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach

Heres my delima,
I've had a set of new eibach's laying around for 2 years, undecided on
weather or not to use them. I've used eibachs in the past on different
cars
and have always liked the results. Recently someone posted on 3si that
they
have a set of Intrax springs they want to trade for a set of eibachs.

Has anybody on the list here used both, and can offer me a comparison.
So far, the only reason i have to trade is that the intrax have a lower
ride.

Wayne

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:25:22 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> Today, we had a chance to do a baseline check to
> see how we're doing. Here are the results of
> four consecutive passes on a G-Tech:

> 1. 13.93 @ 101.8
> 2. 14.39 @ 96.1
> 3. 14.05 @ 99.1
> 4. 13.78 @ 104.2

I'd take those times with a grain of salt. The ET's don't match the MPH -
especially if he was launching it really hard, which you indicated. My GSX
did 13.3 @ 99 with a really nice launch. Gtech can be pretty optimistic on
cars that squat the rear and raise the front under hard launch - just like
DSM's and 3/S cars.

> That's with a pro drag racer driving and
> launching, smoking all four wheels. I couldn't
> possibly launch a car like that. I've been in
> the car when Trent Durham, the owner of F&F,
> did such a launch, and I'm not sure my neck
> can take the snap.

I wouldn't recommend launching like that - the spider gears in the center
diff don't appreciate it much. They turn to junk pretty easily.

> He has cast his evil eye on my 3000GT VR4 and
> says he can easily get it into the 12s, maybe
> the high 11s with a little fiddling and proper
> driving. I dunno about all this juvenile drag
> racing hero driving crap. But if he can get my
> stock Talon into the 13s with a $50 mod, I am
> all for it.

Good luck! I don't think I've heard of any stock turbo'd 3/S cars getting
into the 11's. There's just not enough airflow from the stock turbos to
make the HP required.

> C'mon out Eastern Iowans - let's not let this
> guy get away.

Hmmm. I'd be worried about letting a guy work on my car who is that willing
to beat the hell out of my car with me around. Imagine what he does to it
on a test drive if you aren't there. Sheesh...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:41:12 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: turbo spooling, too slow?

What gear is this in, and what rpm are you starting at? Also, do you have
the 5 speed or 6 speed tranny?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Ken Middaugh
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:23 PM
To: Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: turbo spooling, too slow?

Hi folks,

I have 1500 miles or so on my new 13G turbos and new engine. I also have
gutted precats, but the stock downpipe, main cat, and exhaust. I was
expecting the new 13G's with gutted precats to spool up to 15 psi almost as
fast as the 9B's with intact precats, i.e. 15 psi around 3100 RPM. However,
my 13G's don't see 15 psi until about 4000 RPM. In numerous posts in the
past, folks have mentioned that the 13G & 15G "spool almost as quickly" as
the 9B. This is not what I'm currently experiencing! Does this spooling
seem correct? Will the spoolup time get quicker as the turbos "break-in"
some more?

Thanks,
Ken

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:43:27 -0800 (PST)
From: eu na <phsmart02@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: spark plug wires

I need your advice about changing the factory spark
plug wires for an aftermarket set.
I would need your opinion on what is the best brand
out there for our turbo models and where can I get
that part.
Thanks a lot,

Raul Cinelli
'95 3000 GT VR4
white pearl
Argentina

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:58:34 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Rich -- you MUST be talking about the Talon on street tires as I doubt
anyone can turn in those times on a good set of Blizzaks. How old were
the tires and remember that the G-Tech Pro starts timing the instant it
senses a change in movement and not when the green light on the
Christmas Tree lights up ... chalk up another 0.450 seconds to
everything for a near-perfect launch.

And what were the $50 mods and are they applicable to the 3/S cars? If
not then why post it to this list?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and easily fooled a G-Tech with a smooth rolling start of 20
mph but it thought I was standing still so a 1/4 mile time of 9.00
seconds was attained

- -----Original Message-----
From: merritt@cedar-rapids.net
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 23:47

Last week, the Cedar Rapids, Iowa, speed shop Fast and Furious did the
"free horsepower" mod to my 92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo. This is a
completely bone stock Talon with 115,000 miles and Blizzak snow tires,
onto which F&F executed the RRE "free mods" (free, plus $50 labor, of
course).

Today, we had a chance to do a baseline check to see how we're doing.
Here are the results of four consecutive passes on a G-Tech:

1. 13.93 @ 101.8
2. 14.39 @ 96.1
3. 14.05 @ 99.1
4. 13.78 @ 104.2

That's with a pro drag racer driving and launching, smoking all four
wheels. I couldn't possibly launch a car like that. I've been in the car
when Trent Durham, the owner of F&F, did such a launch, and I'm not sure
my neck can take the snap.

I am a road racer/rally driver, not a drag racer, but this is how we are
going to judge all future mods. Trent tells me he has a few more
interesting mods to make as we shoot for low 13s next.

He has cast his evil eye on my 3000GT VR4 and says he can easily get it
into the 12s, maybe the high 11s with a little fiddling and proper
driving. I dunno about all this juvenile drag racing hero driving crap.
But if he can get my stock Talon into the 13s with a $50 mod, I am all
for it. It sure gets up to where I want to go -- 100+ on gravel --
pretty dang quick now, and it's not a peaky as it was.

But into the 11s on my VR4? Holy shit.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:02:41 +0000
From: apedenko@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Sorry if re-post - but I didn't seem to go through on
the first time, so ->

Okay, since we're on the suspension topic - ever since
my alignment, I'm hearing thumping noises over bumps. I
thought it was nothing, because it just sounds like
something hollow hitting a bump (i.e. the tire), but it
wasn't there before. What could it be?

When the shop did my alignment, they took a look and
said everything looked fine. But I don't know if I can
trust them because 1 they put my rotational tires on
backwards and 2 My steering wheel was way off center
before (to drive straight, it had do be a good distance
to the left). Now, it's the same thing only it's off to
the right.

Alex.

'95 Vr4
> Sorry almost forgot. Here is the price run down. At
least what I paid for
> it:
>
> Struts (2): $210.00
> Shcoks (2): $150.00
> Eibachi Springs (1): $270.00
> Cusco Rear Strut Bar (1): $125
> Addco Front Sway Bar (1): $190
> Addco Rear Sway Bar (1): $190
> Figure about $20 for shipping, it will put you at
about $1155.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dustin Lenz" <dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
> To: <griz600cc@home.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?
>
>
> > Couple questions, why did you go with new
struts/shocks and Eibach
> lowering
> > springs instead of the tein setup? If cost, what
did all that run you? I
> > want my car lower plus am hearing thumping noises
over bumps, thus
> > considering new parts.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your time,
> > -Dustin/97VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:02:26 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: spark plug wires

I think stock wires are just fine for our cars. If you want to put on
more mods and that means more juice is flowing or more-consistent juice
then you want something like Magnecor and others that have a low loss
and are shielded. There are other maker but that is what I have on
mine. Why? The stock ones were 65,000 miles old at the time, I had a
red on black color scheme going, and these Magnecor 8.5mm lines were
red. Never did notice an improvement but it is the peace of mind I
guess knowing they are new and better than stock in the long run.

- --Flash!
Black 1995 VR-4 with red color scheme started ... and happy birthday to
me

- -----Original Message-----
From: eu na
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 00:43

I need your advice about changing the factory spark
plug wires for an aftermarket set.
I would need your opinion on what is the best brand
out there for our turbo models and where can I get
that part.
Thanks a lot,

Raul Cinelli
'95 3000 GT VR4
white pearl
Argentina

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:15:15 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

Dean,

   Perhaps you've never driving a road course before. You obviously
also missed the point of my post earlier. I am not about to get into a
discussion of why you want an AWD car to react like a RWD car as the
explanation is not technical and does not belong on this list. There is
a "Racers" list for questions such as that.
   I was commenting on the handling of the anti-sway bars as well as the
strut tower bars. Contact me if you have any further questions or ask
me off list about non-technical or "road racing" questions.
   By the way, a four-wheel drift is a slow way of going through a
corner if there is a way to not drift which scrubs speed. Also, you
should already be at full power AT the apex of a turn in an AWD car
instead of powering through it. I'm sure you mean well but I think you
said you are just getting into these down in FL, right? Respond
privately please.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and rear anti-sway bar only at the current time

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dean Benz
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 23:44

Darren, why would you want an AWD car that drives like a RWD?

IMHO a well balanced car that I can change the characteristics of by
shifting
weight (throttle/brake/shift) would be my preference.

There is nothing quite like an AWD in a four wheel drift as you power
through
a late apex headed for the exit of a turn.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:19:31 -0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo swap guide

>You might want to remove the drivers side intercooler
and drain the oil out of it too, rather than letting
the new turbo blow it into your engine. If you had
that much oil in the hose, you probably have as much,
if not
more in the intercooler. I removed an intercooler from
a car that had a blown rear turbo, and
there was about 2 quarts in the I/C. All this oil in
the intake caused the motor to hydraulically lock, and
break 2 rods.<
Now you have me down right scared, Ok I'm sure there
is oil in the air inter coolers, most likely both
right and left, after
blowing the turbos and seeing all the oil everyplace
else in the intake side. I will say this is the first
time I have considered this
problem, and just looking at the book it looks like a
lot of work to take the inter coolers out to drain
them. What I'm thinking is
where does that oil pool up in the coolers, I will
just drill a hole and let it drain out. I can plug the
hole with a sheet metal screw and rubber washer can't
I, maybe just some high air pressure and force the
oil out. Please someone what should I do to get the
oil out of the air inter coolers after blowing my
turbos. I don't want to pull the bumper and all the
crap to take the air inter coolers out. I need to get
back on the road. Just where does that oil pool and
why isn't there a drain on it already just for this
type problem.

Peter

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:03:10 +0800
From: "John Stegall III" <jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject: Team3S: Tranny Filler/Sealant?

My apologies if this message is a duplicate, but it's been two hours since I sent the original and haven't seen it go through yet.

In need of help from you gurus again. Having been on the list for a while, I've noticed a few people mention fluids that could be poured into the tranny that can seal up cracks and leaks. The other day I was out with a friend who used the exact same thing on his first gen eclipse tranny and it worked like a charm. I was wondering what the success is on our trannies? I've got a leak in my tranny, and I'm willing to try that stuff out first with my next oil change before anything else. The leak is quite small, so I'm thinking this just might do the trick. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

John
94 VR-4 (stock)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:50:42 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S: difference in boost gauges...

I'm running two boost gauges, a DEFI heads up display and a blitz DSBC.
My two gauges aren't reading the same boost. I've got the DSBC hooked
up to the firewall side vacuum hose (i think it's the clutch assist or
something like that) and the DEFI hooked up to the FPR (front most)
hose. Why am I getting two totally different readings of boost? I get
a reading of 1.03bar on the DEFI (FPR side) and a max boost reading of
0.90 bar on the DSBC (firewall side). I've checked for leaks but can't
find anything substantial. The DEFI uses a sending unit and the vacuum
hose is only about 12" long. The DSBC uses a hard plastic boost hose
which is 6' long. Here's the kicker: when the two were hooked up to
the same hose, i.e. both on the firewall side hose, then I was getting
identical readings +/- a couple hundredths. Why is it all of a sudden
so different?

Help is much needed cuz i'm not sure if I am running safe boost or not
since I'm not sure which gauge is right?
Damon

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:07:14 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: difference in boost gauges...

... why the two aftermarket gauges? I'm still waiting for someone to
verify what the stock water temp, oil pressure, and boost gauge readings
are by hooking up a second gauge but nobody puts in dual gauges but
rather just replace them. That doesn't help me know what the stock one
has been reading for the last year though.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and AutoMeter Z-Series boost gauge going in next week (it
matches the red numbers on black gauge face theme in the car)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Damon Rachell
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 03:51

I'm running two boost gauges, a DEFI heads up display and a blitz DSBC.
My two gauges aren't reading the same boost. I've got the DSBC hooked

up to the firewall side vacuum hose (i think it's the clutch assist or
something like that) and the DEFI hooked up to the FPR (front most)
hose. Why am I getting two totally different readings of boost? I get
a reading of 1.03bar on the DEFI (FPR side) and a max boost reading of
0.90 bar on the DSBC (firewall side). I've checked for leaks but can't
find anything substantial. The DEFI uses a sending unit and the vacuum
hose is only about 12" long. The DSBC uses a hard plastic boost hose
which is 6' long. Here's the kicker: when the two were hooked up to
the same hose, i.e. both on the firewall side hose, then I was getting
identical readings +/- a couple hundredths. Why is it all of a sudden
so different?

Help is much needed cuz i'm not sure if I am running safe boost or not
since I'm not sure which gauge is right?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:18:58 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo swap guide

Don't worry about the passenger side, because the pipes are horizontal and
the oil has no where to pool up. The drivers side pipes are vertical, so
the oil can just sit in there.

Take one of the hoses off (near the motor mount) and shine a light in there
to see if you can see any oil.
You might try a wet vac, but i wouldn't recommend drilling any holes

Wayne.

At 10:19 PM 2/25/02 -0800, menalteed wrote:

>where does that oil pool up in the coolers, I will
>just drill a hole and let it drain out. I can plug the
>hole with a sheet metal screw and rubber washer can't
>I, maybe just some high air pressure and force the
>oil out. Please someone what should I do to get the
>oil out of the air inter coolers after blowing my
>turbos. I don't want to pull the bumper and all the
>crap to take the air inter coolers out. I need to get
>back on the road. Just where does that oil pool and
>why isn't there a drain on it already just for this
>type problem.
>
>Peter

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:27:46 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo swap guide

I have done the wet vac, one remove the blue/green cloth filter before you
do this, DAMHIK and expect to throw away the foam element filter that is
under the cloth one.

Also make sure you empty the vac canister and wash it out before and after
you do this.

One side note try to find a pipe as close to the core as possible it removes
alot more of the oil residue.... You will not get it all though the only
way to get it all is remove the IC pour some Simple Green (full strength) in
to the IC's swirl it around drain out (repeat) and then do the above to get
any remaining cleanser oil mixture out of the core.

Did both of these methods on my VR-4 and my MKIV when I first got
them........ It sucked in both cases sorry :(
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne [SMTP:whietala@prodigy.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:19 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo swap guide
>
> Don't worry about the passenger side, because the pipes are horizontal and
>
> the oil has no where to pool up. The drivers side pipes are vertical, so
> the oil can just sit in there.
>
> Take one of the hoses off (near the motor mount) and shine a light in
> there
> to see if you can see any oil.
> You might try a wet vac, but i wouldn't recommend drilling any holes
>
> Wayne.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:44:42 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> Rich -- you MUST be talking about the Talon on
> street tires as I doubt anyone can turn in those
> times on a good set of Blizzaks.

You can run 13's or 14's on a DSM (or a 3/S) on pretty any tire that'll hold
air. It isn't difficult by any stretch. I had my fastest DSM runs on a set
of Fleet Farm off-brand snow tires.

> How old were the tires and remember that the
> G-Tech Pro starts timing the instant it senses
> a change in movement and not when the green light
> on the Christmas Tree lights up ... chalk up
> another 0.450 seconds to everything for a
> near-perfect launch.

It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car rolling out of the staging
beams at a dragstrip.

> And what were the $50 mods and are they applicable
> to the 3/S cars? If not then why post it to this list?

I'd imagine some of the simple things like a K&N and a bleeder valve. You
can certainly use those on a 3/S.

> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 and easily fooled a G-Tech with a smooth
> rolling start of 20 mph but it thought I was
> standing still so a 1/4 mile time of 9.00 seconds
> was attained

Actually a rolling start should result in worse times since the Gtech will
see less acceleration. Not that it matters... The only real indicators of
acceleration performance are a dragstrip or a dyno.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:49:35 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?

you need a new alignment shop, but you know that.

You could have a bad tire - how new are they? I had to have a brand new one
replaced. the manufacturing process for tires is not perfect.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: apedenko@attbi.com [SMTP:apedenko@attbi.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:03 AM
> To: team3s@team3s.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: New bars: Handling too good?
>
>
> Okay, since we're on the suspension topic - ever since
> my alignment, I'm hearing thumping noises over bumps. I
> thought it was nothing, because it just sounds like
> something hollow hitting a bump (i.e. the tire), but it
> wasn't there before. What could it be?
>
> When the shop did my alignment, they took a look and
> said everything looked fine. But I don't know if I can
> trust them because 1 they put my rotational tires on
> backwards and 2 My steering wheel was way off center
> before (to drive straight, it had do be a good distance
> to the left). Now, it's the same thing only it's off to
> the right.
>
>   Alex.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:52:20 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo swap guide

I'd pull the bumpers off and remove the intercoolers. How long do you want
to STAY back on the road? It's not that big a deal.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: menalteed [SMTP:menalteed@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:20 AM
> To: Wayne
> Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo swap guide
>
> I don't want to pull the bumper and all the
> crap to take the air inter coolers out. I need to get
> back on the road.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:59:03 -0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

>G-Tech Pro starts timing the instant it
>senses a change in movement and not when the green light on the
>Christmas Tree lights up ... chalk up another 0.450 seconds to
>everything for a near-perfect launch.
>
>--Flash!

Flash...as a long time drag racer, I have pondered this statement of yours
and for the life of me, can't figure out what is meant by it. We all know
that your ET has nothing to do with when the light turns green. Please
explain.

Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:07:23 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Matt,

> You can run 13's or 14's on a DSM (or a 3/S) on pretty any tire
> that'll hold air. It isn't difficult by any stretch. I had my
> fastest DSM runs on a set of Fleet Farm off-brand snow tires.

I'm saying that the Blizzaks on my car sucked in rain and when they were
new (tread was so tall) and I had trouble in the dry pavement not
getting oversteer.

> It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car rolling out of
> the staging beams at a dragstrip.

No, but that is the reaction time rarely seen on a dragstrip ticket.
Isn't that the time between the green light and the car breaking the
"eye" of the lane? I don't think you can get 0.00 as 0.400 I thought
was a perfect time and anything under that was a red light. I'm not a
drag racer so I don't know but I know there is always a reaction time in
there.

> I'd imagine some of the simple things like a K&N and a bleeder
> valve. You can certainly use those on a 3/S.

I imagine so also but a drag car is a drag car is a drag car and few
road racer cars are a good drag car and few drag cars are a good road
racer car. You NEVER do an AWD launch from rest at a road course. You
get a rolling start out of the pits and after that you never use first
gear again so different strokes for different folks.

Wait ... he said $50 in labor. A K&N is at least $50 and a bleeder
valve (home made) is about $8. Beats me what he did but he didn't tell
us was the point. Wrapping the IC pipes is free hp and easy (more or
less) to do but I still don't see many of us doing it. Why? It adds
maybe 5 hp and is a royal pain. Add a BC and you get 50-75 hp easy.
Just kind of a trade-off there I bet on labor applied and result gained.

> Actually a rolling start should result in worse times since
> the Gtech will see less acceleration. Not that it matters...
> The only real indicators of acceleration performance are a
> dragstrip or a dyno.

Not from what I saw. The G-Tech measures how far 1/4 mile is and times
it. You can start at 60 mph if you want and get a 6.0 second time. It
doesn't matter about acceleration until you input the car's weight to
get a hp reading. And no the dragstrip is not a real indication since
you have tire slippage being a possibility. I say a dyno is the only
true measurement.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 09:45

You can run 13's or 14's on a DSM (or a 3/S) on pretty any tire
that'll hold air. It isn't difficult by any stretch. I had my
fastest DSM runs on a set of Fleet Farm off-brand snow tires.

It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car rolling out of
the staging beams at a dragstrip.

I'd imagine some of the simple things like a K&N and a bleeder
valve. You can certainly use those on a 3/S.

Actually a rolling start should result in worse times since
the Gtech will see less acceleration. Not that it matters...
The only real indicators of acceleration performance are a
dragstrip or a dyno.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:15:23 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Okay, as a non-drag racer I give up. What is Reaction Time? I think I
see that I was saying to add this to the ET and I flubbed that one up.
But the G-Tech has no reaction time ... it just starts timing when it
senses a change in its internal accelerometer. Since people are trying
to get a 0.500 second reaction time on a Full tree at a dragstrip or a
0.400 second reaction time on a Pro tree then they often go slow at
first or dump the clutch and launch hard and this affects their 1/4 mile
time. If you do it with no pressure of a Christmas tree then where is
the fun but people have taken a G-Tech down a 1/4 strip and verified
that it is off by a little or a lot sometimes. That's all. I don't
know that the G-Tech is used for anything other than confirmation of a
mod or a "ballpark" figure as it is not proof in the pudding. It is
easy to fool.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wendlandt
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 09:59

>G-Tech Pro starts timing the instant it
>senses a change in movement and not when the green light on the
>Christmas Tree lights up ... chalk up another 0.450 seconds to
>everything for a near-perfect launch.
>
>--Flash!

Flash...as a long time drag racer, I have pondered this statement of
yours
and for the life of me, can't figure out what is meant by it. We all
know
that your ET has nothing to do with when the light turns green. Please
explain.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:22:33 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

>> It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car
>> rolling out of the staging beams at a dragstrip.

> No, but that is the reaction time rarely seen
> on a dragstrip ticket. Isn't that the time
> between the green light and the car breaking
> the "eye" of the lane? I don't think you can
> get 0.00 as 0.400 I thought was a perfect time
> and anything under that was a red light. I'm
> not a drag racer so I don't know but I know
> there is always a reaction time in there.

First off, the "reaction time" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Elapsed
Time. Your 14.686 best 1/4 mile time is exactly that - 14.686 seconds to
get to the other end of the track, no ifs ands or buts about it. Reaction
time is used to figure out who started moving when in relation to the green
light appearing. Perfect on a Sportsman Tree (where each yellow flashes on
in .5 second increments) is .500 reaction time. It is offset to determine
whether you were too fast (redlight) or too slow or just right. .498 is a
redlight by .002 seconds. .502 is .002 seconds late from a perfect reaction
(tires left the staging beam .002 seconds later than allowed). The ET is
calculated ONLY from when you left the beam to when you crossed the finish
beam at the end of the track.

> I imagine so also but a drag car is a drag car
> is a drag car and few road racer cars are a
> good drag car and few drag cars are a good
> road racer car.

That's a pretty broad statement to make. I can only imagine the reason you
said it is because your car isn't a good drag racing car. Jack T. roadraces
his "drag" car with success.

> Not from what I saw. The G-Tech measures how
> far 1/4 mile is and times it. You can start
> at 60 mph if you want and get a 6.0 second
> time. It doesn't matter about acceleration until
> you input the car's weight to get a hp reading.

????? What do you think the Gtech measures? The ONLY input the darn thing
has is a single-axis accelerometer. I suppose you believe it can magically
detect that you are already going 60 and give you the head start?

> And no the dragstrip is not a real indication since
> you have tire slippage being a possibility.

I said measure of ACCELERATION. If your tires are slipping in the real
world, then that's an accurate measure of acceleration.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:37:34 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Matt -- See the other email when I realize my mistake of adding RT to
ET. Geez. It must be nice to be so perfect that you never make
mistakes. When I see one though I'll be sure to point it out nice and
bold. I think the reason was I didn't respond to Mark's email before
yours hit the list. Regardless ... the mistake has been realized.

>> I imagine so also but a drag car is a drag car
>> is a drag car and few road racer cars are a
>> good drag car and few drag cars are a good
>> road racer car.

> That's a pretty broad statement to make. I can only imagine the
> reason you said it is because your car isn't a good drag racing
> car. Jack T. roadraces his "drag" car with success.

Dear Matt. Is it time to have your eyes checked? Read above where I
say, "FEW drag cars are a good road racer car." I didn't say "NO drag
car is a good road racer car." Sometimes I think you put in words or
take them out to get your point across. And I don't think many people
will argue about drag/road cars. I see that a massively-powerful
Stealth will be at the Midwest Gathering this year and it seems balanced
for drag and road course. I don't see many like that though.

> Not from what I saw. The G-Tech measures how
> far 1/4 mile is and times it. You can start
> at 60 mph if you want and get a 6.0 second
> time. It doesn't matter about acceleration until
> you input the car's weight to get a hp reading.

????? What do you think the Gtech measures? The ONLY input the darn
thing
has is a single-axis accelerometer. I suppose you believe it can
magically
detect that you are already going 60 and give you the head start?

Wrong again. You set the G-Tech Pro to 0.00 on the tilt scale. If you
are driving smooth on a smooth road in third gear at 60 mph then you can
do this. I think it allows up to about 0.05 tilt before it doesn't
register. Then you hit the switch for "Start" and it reads "GO" and
then blinks "0.00" and that is when you can start accelerating. Can
someone with a G-Tech do this? It measures a 1/4 mile I believe and
flashes the time. I sold mine so I don't have it anymore.

> And no the dragstrip is not a real indication since
> you have tire slippage being a possibility.

I said measure of ACCELERATION. If your tires are slipping in the real
world, then that's an accurate measure of acceleration.

Okay, then the dyno is NOT accurate as the tire never slips but is a
slow gradual increase of throttle starting in second or third sometimes.
Nobody does a 1/4 mile launch on a dyno that I have seen. Also, not too
many roads are paved with steel like a dyno drum wheel is. As soon as
they make one with potholes, gravel, road paint, and asphalt I think we
will be on to something.

- --Flash!

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:43:00 -0500
From: malthus <sithmax@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

You know, he may be wrong about all this stuff, but he's right that the
G-Tech is fubar.
A DSM with one *highly dubious* mod running 13s? Doubtful. That's a full 2
seconds off stock times and those mph numbers simply do not match. Sure they
can be made to do it relatively cheaply, but $50? Give me a break. The claim
that a 3S could do 11s EASILY? How many have EVER done it, even after
thousands upon thousands of dollars in mods? One? Two? So lets stop
quibbling and simply agree that this is all nothing more than bunk.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> >> It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car
> >> rolling out of the staging beams at a dragstrip.
>
> > No, but that is the reaction time rarely seen
> > on a dragstrip ticket. Isn't that the time
> > between the green light and the car breaking
> > the "eye" of the lane? I don't think you can
> > get 0.00 as 0.400 I thought was a perfect time
> > and anything under that was a red light. I'm
> > not a drag racer so I don't know but I know
> > there is always a reaction time in there.
>
> First off, the "reaction time" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the
Elapsed
> Time. Your 14.686 best 1/4 mile time is exactly that - 14.686 seconds to
> get to the other end of the track, no ifs ands or buts about it. Reaction
> time is used to figure out who started moving when in relation to the
green
> light appearing. Perfect on a Sportsman Tree (where each yellow flashes
on
> in .5 second increments) is .500 reaction time. It is offset to determine
> whether you were too fast (redlight) or too slow or just right. .498 is a
> redlight by .002 seconds. .502 is .002 seconds late from a perfect
reaction
> (tires left the staging beam .002 seconds later than allowed). The ET is
> calculated ONLY from when you left the beam to when you crossed the finish
> beam at the end of the track.
>
> > I imagine so also but a drag car is a drag car
> > is a drag car and few road racer cars are a
> > good drag car and few drag cars are a good
> > road racer car.
>
> That's a pretty broad statement to make. I can only imagine the reason
you
> said it is because your car isn't a good drag racing car. Jack T.
roadraces
> his "drag" car with success.
>
> > Not from what I saw. The G-Tech measures how
> > far 1/4 mile is and times it. You can start
> > at 60 mph if you want and get a 6.0 second
> > time. It doesn't matter about acceleration until
> > you input the car's weight to get a hp reading.
>
> ????? What do you think the Gtech measures? The ONLY input the darn
thing
> has is a single-axis accelerometer. I suppose you believe it can
magically
> detect that you are already going 60 and give you the head start?
>
> > And no the dragstrip is not a real indication since
> > you have tire slippage being a possibility.
>
> I said measure of ACCELERATION. If your tires are slipping in the real
> world, then that's an accurate measure of acceleration.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:01:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Yes..I now agree. I looked back into the way-way-back-machine here.

I ran a buddies 2nd gen to a 13.98 with a Profec, upper IC pipe, and 1st
gen BOV..in Tulsa, in late February.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, malthus wrote:

> You know, he may be wrong about all this stuff, but he's right that the
> G-Tech is fubar.
> A DSM with one *highly dubious* mod running 13s? Doubtful. That's a full 2
> seconds off stock times and those mph numbers simply do not match. Sure they
> can be made to do it relatively cheaply, but $50? Give me a break. The claim
> that a 3S could do 11s EASILY? How many have EVER done it, even after
> thousands upon thousands of dollars in mods? One? Two? So lets stop
> quibbling and simply agree that this is all nothing more than bunk.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
> To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:22 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.
>
>
> > >> It doesn't take .450 seconds to get your car
> > >> rolling out of the staging beams at a dragstrip.
> >
> > > No, but that is the reaction time rarely seen
> > > on a dragstrip ticket. Isn't that the time
> > > between the green light and the car breaking
> > > the "eye" of the lane? I don't think you can
> > > get 0.00 as 0.400 I thought was a perfect time
> > > and anything under that was a red light. I'm
> > > not a drag racer so I don't know but I know
> > > there is always a reaction time in there.
----------------snip-------------

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:42:57 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> Matt -- See the other email when I realize my mistake
> of adding RT to ET. Geez. It must be nice to be so
> perfect that you never make mistakes. When I see one
> though I'll be sure to point it out nice and bold.

I make my share of mistakes, but hopefully it isn't the broad trail of
errors and incorrect assumptions that you've left behind in the list
archives. It must be nice to be able to use Star Trek physics to back up
your assumptions about car handling and the like.

>> ????? What do you think the Gtech measures? The
>> ONLY input the darn thing has is a single-axis
>> accelerometer. I suppose you believe it can magically
>> detect that you are already going 60 and give you the
>> head start?

> Wrong again. You set the G-Tech Pro to 0.00 on the
> tilt scale. If you are driving smooth on a smooth
> road in third gear at 60 mph then you can do this.
> I think it allows up to about 0.05 tilt before it
> doesn't register. Then you hit the switch for
> "Start" and it reads "GO" and then blinks "0.00"
> and that is when you can start accelerating. Can
> someone with a G-Tech do this? It measures a
> 1/4 mile I believe and flashes the time. I sold
> mine so I don't have it anymore.

I don't know why I even bother. I should just let this made-up crap go by,
hoping that everyone else realizes that you are just making it up as you go.

You start by driving 60 MPH. Gtech sees "0" as its acceleration rate.
Gtech believes you are at a stop, since it assumes starting from a dead
stop.

You hit the start button, it says "GO" on the display. You accelerate to 70
MPH. Gtech now believes that you have accelerated to 10 MPH. If you hold
that speed, it'll think 10 MPH for the rest of the run. It has no possible
way to measure that you are already going 60 at the start of the run. Does
it take 9 seconds to go 1/4 mile at 10 MPH? No.

You could've just said that the Gtech is not very accurate. We all realize
that. Instead you made up some random story that doesn't make sense in the
real world and try to pass it off as fact. Next you'll try to tell me that
I've changed your words, or that you intended to convey something else or
whatever.

Really, I don't care.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
With Gtech Pro.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:47:17 -0500
From: malthus <sithmax@optonline.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "malthus" <sithmax@optonline.net>
To: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach

> My question is why did he have them laying around for 2 YEARS??? Hell, if
ya
> ain't gonna use em, just sell em and buy something you'll use.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
> To: "'Wayne'" <whietala@prodigy.net>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:22 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach
>
> > Comparison is simple: Similar spring rates, similar performance.
> > Intrax lowers the car about a half inch more than Eibach. Both use
> > progressive rate springs... I only have had Intrax on my 3000, but I had
> > Eibach on my Talon TSI I used to have... They both perform the same to
> > me...
> >
> > -Cody
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> > Of Wayne
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:04 PM
> > To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Team3S: Intrax VS. Eibach
> >
> > Heres my delima,
> > I've had a set of new eibach's laying around for 2 years, undecided on
> > weather or not to use them. I've used eibachs in the past on different
> > cars
> > and have always liked the results. Recently someone posted on 3si that
> > they
> > have a set of Intrax springs they want to trade for a set of eibachs.
> >
> > Has anybody on the list here used both, and can offer me a comparison.
> > So far, the only reason i have to trade is that the intrax have a lower
> > ride.
> >
> > Wayne

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:47:30 -0500
From: malthus <sithmax@optonline.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: difference in boost gauges...

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "malthus" <sithmax@optonline.net>
To: <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: difference in boost gauges...

> *coughricecough*
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
> To: "'team3s'" <team3s@speedtoys.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: difference in boost gauges...
>
> > ... why the two aftermarket gauges? I'm still waiting for someone to
> > verify what the stock water temp, oil pressure, and boost gauge readings
> > are by hooking up a second gauge but nobody puts in dual gauges but
> > rather just replace them. That doesn't help me know what the stock one
> > has been reading for the last year though.
> >
> > --Flash!
> > 1995 VR-4 and AutoMeter Z-Series boost gauge going in next week (it
> > matches the red numbers on black gauge face theme in the car)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Damon Rachell
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 03:51
> >
> > I'm running two boost gauges, a DEFI heads up display and a blitz DSBC.
> > My two gauges aren't reading the same boost. I've got the DSBC hooked
> >
> > up to the firewall side vacuum hose (i think it's the clutch assist or
> > something like that) and the DEFI hooked up to the FPR (front most)
> > hose. Why am I getting two totally different readings of boost? I get
> > a reading of 1.03bar on the DEFI (FPR side) and a max boost reading of
> > 0.90 bar on the DSBC (firewall side). I've checked for leaks but can't
> > find anything substantial. The DEFI uses a sending unit and the vacuum
> > hose is only about 12" long. The DSBC uses a hard plastic boost hose
> > which is 6' long. Here's the kicker: when the two were hooked up to
> > the same hose, i.e. both on the firewall side hose, then I was getting
> > identical readings +/- a couple hundredths. Why is it all of a sudden
> > so different?
> >
> > Help is much needed cuz i'm not sure if I am running safe boost or not
> > since I'm not sure which gauge is right?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:46:09 -0600
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

Boy, you guys sure are a bunch of Doubting Thomases.

The $50 Talon mods are described somewhere on the Road Race Engineering web page. One involves hacking the MAS, the other was removing a small ball from a valve. There are a bunch of similar demon tweaks that you can do to a Talon that don't require any parts.

I know, of course, that the G-Tech is notoriously inaccurate, and testing it on a street that may or may not be perfectly level adds to the inaccuracy, even if you run it in both directions, like we did. Averaged out, the four runs come to 14.0 @ 100 mph, which is not bad for a stocker.

You go with what you have to work with. It's just a baseline after all. The only time I'll ever drive it like that again is after the next set of mods, when we want to check the baseline to see what the improvement is. I want to respect the center diff, as someone warned.

The only true test is to take it to the dragstrip, which is not likely. I am no drag racer.

Nevertheless, the improvement after the $50 mod definitely was dramatic. I can feel it.

I agree about the VR4. I too am skeptical about getting into the 11 second range with the VR4.

Maybe it can only be done with the G-Tech on that stretch of road. A year ago I did a 5.5 0-60 and 13.5 @ 105 with the G-Tech, but that was in a slight mist, so it was easy to spin the tires. I did not bang-shift it, though.

Since then, I've added a Stillen downpipe, Supra fuel pump and a cat back, so that should be good for a half second under the same circumstances. After we put a boost controller and BOV on it, that should get me into the 12s. If I let Trent drive the car, under all those same conditions, he probably could get it into the 11s just by knowing how to drive it. I know it's not real-world dragstrip conditions, but it's what I have.

And even if the G-Tech is off by a half-second, I'll take a 12.5 1/4 mile any day. When that happens, I'll go look up my ROWG buddy with the Z06 and see if he wants to go play.

Maybe we'll find out for sure at the Gathering this summer.

Rich/slow old poop

>I ran a buddies 2nd gen to a 13.98 with a Profec, upper IC pipe, and 1st
>gen BOV..in Tulsa, in late February.
>> A DSM with one *highly dubious* mod running 13s? Doubtful. That's a full 2
>> seconds off stock times and those mph numbers simply do not match.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:58:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> I know, of course, that the G-Tech is notoriously inaccurate, and testing it on a street that may or may not be perfectly level adds to the inaccuracy, even if you run it in both directions, like we did. Averaged out, the four runs come to 14.0 @ 100 mph, which is not bad for a stocker.
- --
Yes, the boost control valve mod and honeycomb are known, but not 50Hp
differences required to see the light of easy 13s.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:03:43 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: The $50 Iowa mod.

> "Really, I don't care."
> Wow, for somebody who doesn't care you sure
> went out of your way to be an asshole. If
> somebody is wrong, you teach them, not
> denigrate them.

I tried the first time, and he threw it back in my face. If I remember
right, the exact same topic has come up more than a few times with Darren.

Next time I'll try to be more helpful like your last post:

" *coughricecough* "

If I had to guess why Damon is running two boost gauges, I'd guess that the
DSBC is mounted somewhere that isn't easily visible. If you wanted to make
a very visible boost gauge, projecting it on the windshield is actually a
pretty good idea. I'd move both of them to read pressure off the blowoff
valve line. Those should both read what the pressure is in the manifold
without anything else trying to change the reading, assuming there aren't
any leaks in the lines.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:39:07 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Pressure in the BOV line WAS: The $50 Iowa mod.

> If I had to guess why Damon is running two boost
> gauges<...>
> I'd move both of them to read pressure off the
> blowoff valve line. Those should both read what
> the pressure is in the manifold without anything
> else trying to change the reading, assuming
> there aren't any leaks in the lines.

Matt (and others),
I've contemplated tapping into the BPV/BOV vacuum line from the
manifold to get boost readings, but I've wondered if it's completely sealed
and/or doesn't change pressure when the valve activates (other than the
actual manifold pressure change, of course). I've never taken a BPV apart,
so I don't know exactly what's at the BPV end of the vacuum line and whether
that would give inaccurate boost/vacuum readings.
I've got 4 aftermarket things tapped into the stock vacuum lines -
2 into FPR(blue) and 2 into evap. purge(red). I realize that the evap purge
line is actually *before* the throttle plate and thus won't read manifold
vacuum, but those 2 devices don't need to read vacuum. It'd be nice to run
everything off the big fat BPV line rather than the tiny FPR line (that
needs to be accurate), but I've been nervous about the accuracy of the BPV
vacuum line.

- --Erik
'95 VR-4 with way too many vacuum lines

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:49:30 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wrapping IC pipes WAS: The $50 Iowa mod.

> Wrapping the IC pipes is free hp and easy (more or
> less) to do but I still don't see many of us doing
> it. Why?

Is it free HP? On a 40F degree day, my underhood temps (other than by the
firewall directly above the rear turbo) are around 60-65F when cruising
above 35mph. When driving it hard, the temps climb a few degrees, but not
more than 10F, especially if I'm going fast. When motionless at idle
they'll climb to 130-140F, but that changes as soon as the car starts
moving. I don't have data for warmer ambient temps since it's still winter
here, but I'll get some more data this summer.

I'm guessing that for most of the IC piping (except for directly above the
rear turbo) the heat transfer is *from* the air in the pipe *to* the air in
the engine bay. If that's true, then wrapping the IC pipes would result in
higher intake temps and less hp. Maybe for drag cars that spend some time
staging(high underhood temps) wrapping the IC pipes would be useful, but I'd
think that even then, you would only want to wrap the post-IC pipes as the
pre-IC temps will probably exceed the underhood temps under boost.

My 2hp,
- --Erik

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:58:33 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Pressure in the BOV line WAS: The $50 Iowa mod.

> I've contemplated tapping into the BPV/BOV vacuum
> line from the manifold to get boost readings, but
> I've wondered if it's completely sealed and/or
> doesn't change pressure when the valve activates
> (other than the actual manifold pressure change,
> of course).

The diaphragm in the BOV is a sealed piece, so it won't bleed out pressure
or vacuum. You are safe tapping in on that line. If something does go
wrong, like a hole in a hose or a hose popping off or something at least the
FPR won't be affected then. It's a double-win going with the BOV hose.

> I've got 4 aftermarket things tapped into the
> stock vacuum lines - 2 into FPR(blue) and 2 into
> evap. purge(red).

Wow, what all do you have hooked up on those? :-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:02:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wrapping IC pipes WAS: The $50 Iowa mod.

Consider radiant energy, not just how hot the air is.

Metals can get warmer than thier surrounding air pretty easily.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Gross, Erik wrote:

> > Wrapping the IC pipes is free hp and easy (more or
> > less) to do but I still don't see many of us doing
> > it. Why?
>
> Is it free HP? On a 40F degree day, my underhood temps (other than by the
> firewall directly above the rear turbo) are around 60-65F when cruising
> above 35mph. When driving it hard, the temps climb a few degrees, but not
> more than 10F, especially if I'm going fast. When motionless at idle
> they'll climb to 130-140F, but that changes as soon as the car starts
> moving. I don't have data for warmer ambient temps since it's still winter
> here, but I'll get some more data this summer.
>
> I'm guessing that for most of the IC piping (except for directly above the
> rear turbo) the heat transfer is *from* the air in the pipe *to* the air in
> the engine bay. If that's true, then wrapping the IC pipes would result in
> higher intake temps and less hp. Maybe for drag cars that spend some time
> staging(high underhood temps) wrapping the IC pipes would be useful, but I'd
> think that even then, you would only want to wrap the post-IC pipes as the
> pre-IC temps will probably exceed the underhood temps under boost.
>
> My 2hp,
> --Erik

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:05:06 -0500
From: Jay Stump <jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Idle Problem

The car revs sporatically from 1100 to 1600 until the car comes to a
stop then it revs to 2000 RPM,. Any Ideas what the problem is????

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:07:36 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: BAFMOC

I didn't say it would be easy!

As to the cold air, I was thinking that the area under and to the front of
the fuse/relay box could be drilled with vent holes to get cooler air from
the right cowling/intercooler area.
Sort of adjacant to the headlamp, which would still be a lot cooler than
engine compartment air.

That would not be as good as a hood scoop, but better than from the wheel
well for dirt/rain, and
requires no ducting, unless you want to block it off from the intercooler.

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 7:41 PM
To: team3s@team3s.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: BAFMOC

Don't forget, Kurt, you N/A guys have TONS of room in your engine bay
for eRam, cold air intake, extra plumbing, etc. We TT guys have nary a
space for a wrench to fall and hit the ground. I have seen that the
only way to get cold-air/ram air intake is to cut the beautifully-shaped
hood or going up through the wheelwell. I guess I could go in through
the passenger side headlight (ala Speedvision World Challenge style on
the Integra Type R cars) but then it won't pass inspection.

And getting to all the intake and IC pipes generally requires removing
them or a good portion of the things around them to wrap in heat tape,
Earl's brand of tubing insulation, etc. Just be glad you have all that
room.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 ... still enough room to cook most meals I require when on the
road and still adding recipes to my repertoire

- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 13:40

Personally, I would not relocate the oil cooler, because the water
cooling is more important and effective. You could just double up with
two stock oil coolers. Try not to overlap the frontal areas. That would
maximize the cooling area, add a little reserve to oil supply, and be
easy to replumb. Plumb with the hot inlet into the rear cooler, then its
output to the forward cooler.

PS. Call me the doublemint freak, I am working on dual TB intake and
dual caliper brakes for my NA. (Not worrying about oil cooler yet, as I
don't have any.)

Other notes:
The aluminum finned oil filter covers should work well to reduce heat.
The propped hood and remove rear weather seal on hood works well for me,
gets at least 10deg cooling.
Flush radiator, use Water wetter is something I will do this year, and
every two years.
Idea not tested, use the steel braided water hose covers, they should
help cool as well as looking 'cool'.
Use insulated tape or dryer duct around all intake piping before turbos.

Ensure cool air intake, from front of grill or hood scoop or at least
punch/drill holes through air intake area to wheel well.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #765
***************************************